Ya'll - we've already seen some decommits, and will probably see more from the 2016 recruiting class. We will also undoubtedly see attrition from our current roster when the new staff evaluates the depth chart. Joe tweeted, partially sarcastically, something like how we will have 50 available scholarships in 2017 during the game last night. But he has a point..
With that, which potential coaching name out there would provide the most immediate impact to the 2016 class?
Are there any names out there have committed players that would follow the new coach to VT?
The only reasonable chance of this happening, to me, appears to be Richt or Fedora with Fedora being closer to home, in the ACC, and with potential NCAA sanctions on the horizon.
Just a thought. This is an added dimension of the next hire that I thought was interesting to consider. Who helps VT get better players now?
Comments
No matter what, we can't really fault the new coach on this year's recruiting class, if it doesn't turn out great.
It all depends on how much time the new coach has between the day he's announced as the next head coach and signing day. If we go to a bowl game or the new coach does with his current team, chances are the new coach won't be announced until Jan 1st. So he has under 2 months to try and recruit. If neither goes to a bowl game, he'll have an extra month.
Even though I'm not sure what the contact periods are between December - February. And if those rules apply to new coaches as well.
The best bet to retain the current class is to promote Foster. I think all of the current commits would be fine with that and stay with VT. But most people claim the current class is below par anyway, so some are OK with our current commits going with the coaching staff and starting completely fresh with the new guy.
I think the guys that most people are clamouring about (Herman, Fuente, Morris, etc.) will make the recruits just as excited as it will the fans and will probably bring in a few additional recruits as well.
New coach will be announced on nov 29
#sauces??
That's the day after loluva...
WHEN we make it to a bowl game, will we wait longer to announce?
Why would a bowl game delay the announcement? Coaches get hired between the conclusion of the regular season and the bowl game every year. The only thing that I could see delaying the hire would be getting an NFL guy (who hasn't already been fired). I'm pretty sure that there will be an announcement no later than the Monday after Thanksgiving.
I have stayed out of this whole who the next coach is going to be because, well, I really don't have any inside sources nor am I smart enough to figure out who the best fit would be for VT. But, my thoughts on Foster, or anyone else on the current staff, being promoted is why would they wait to announce that. I mean if you want to retain the current recruiting class you may as well let everyone know there will not be much change to the program. So, although Foster may be in the running, I think Whit is going after others before him.
Foster will not be the HC.
Thanks Whit.
Welp you can't argue with that concise of an explanation
I think any new hire will be better than our current standards. They have a different message to sell now.
With that said I think Herman, morris, and Richt would have the advantage coming out of the gate as proven high level recruiters.
Fuente has never recruited at this level before so he is unknown.
RR would recruit at the same level as Beamer 2004-10 span (20-25 level classes). I think the first 3 names have the potential to recruit at a higher level (10-15 ranked classes) and I have no idea about fuente (he gets an incomplete due to his experience).
All of them will bring people Richt, Morris and RR probably have the most innroads in this area that they could exploit quickly.
Folks like to blame recruiting because it helps them rationalize recent challenges. The fact of the matter is that if you look at Virginia Tech without O&M glasses, Beamer & Co have recruited slightly above their weight class for years.
A new coach will have a challenge sustaining that - let alone improving upon it - over the long term.
Lol no
The new coach will recruit at a higher level than we have been. It will be part of the job requirement. Part of why people nationally think we have underachieved is because the national perception is that we haven't recruited as well as we should have for a very long time, especially on offense. To much talent in our region to recruit as poorly as we do.
That's actually called wishful thinking. Winning and recruiting is a job requirement for every coach, yet somehow few succeed at it.
Very few neutral observers think 1) that VT underachieved over the last 20 years and 2) that VT didn't recruit as well as it should have.
I respect your opinion, even if it's wrong
Any time you want to make a bet on my wrong opinion, just let me know.
I would like to see some sources on that statement and/or how many you are talking about. Seems like a very broad statement for millions of neutral observers out there.
But I really don't need to go far and look at the past 10 years of VT recruiting in the state of VA. It's been on the decline for a very long time now
In-state recruiting is 1) not particularly important (opinion) and 2) VT has been comparable to or better than many other similar power 5 institutions' in-state recruiting (fact). What matters is overall recruiting...and the mantra about in-state recruiting is far from unique to VT.
Take off the O&M glasses and ask a few sober people (who follow closely college football, but don't give a rat's ass about VT) for their opinion on VT football. For the most part, they are amazed at what Beamer has done on the field and in recruiting in a relatively short period of time and with relatively modest resources and are somewhat puzzled at how elements of the fanbase have been trying to push him out for several years.
Strongly disagree about instate recruiting, agree to disagree
who are those other teams that you are comparing us to when it comes to instate recruiting?
Yes, of course, but it all starts with dominating your state.
People/the outsiders are amazed at what Beamer has done from what he was dealt to what where we are now, but outsiders also know us for not being able to keep home town talent instate and that we choke in big national scene games, not even an opinion... its a fact.
VT does better than most comparable schools at recruiting in-state talent. Fact.
Virtually every coach has a terrible record vs top 10 competition. Fact.
Beamer's record vs ranked teams is quite good. Fact.
you keep putting the word "fact" at the end of your statements, yet without any substance and/or source.
Again, who are the comparable teams you keep bringing up?
Not sure why you brought that up, I never said anything about Beamer's record vs Top 10, but since you brought it up I thought I'd share that he is 1-28 against top 5 teams and 8-30 against top 10 opponents. Those are facts. I bet you he is one of the worst when it comes to record against top 5 and probably top 10.
Quite good compared to what? His record is 45-53-1 vs. ranked teams. So you comparing it to other current coaches? Past coaches? Number of wins he has against ranked teams? What? He has a under .500 win % against them.... just want to know what you consider "quite good" because right now your "facts" are quite vague.
Foster doesnt recruit though
Are you serious?
My worry is an announcement of Bud Foster to head coach will turn off offensive recruits. The announcement of a Herman, Fuente, etc might get some back.
I'm not sure I get the logic here. I think Bud will get us a great OC and the recruits would be like:
"Whoa! THAT defense w THAT offense. I'm in!"
You're assuming that Bud can get us a great OC. Maybe he can. Maybe he can't. The problem with great OC's is that once they're a known commodity by recruits they're not likely to take a job laterally. The next step will be HC. If Bud hires an OC it will be a guy who might have potential but we won't actually know whether he's great or not until after he's coached our offense for a few years.
If you hire a HC like Herman who has already proven to be a great offensive mind you're much more likely to entice offensive recruits. It'll be much harder for Bud to hire an OC and then sell that guy to the recruits.
I want to agree with you but I can't. I feel like if there is an offensive coordinator worth his salt he would jump to have a Bud defense to back up his offense. The argument I have is as an offensive coordinator you live by putting up points, if you have a defense that one of the major points is forcing turnovers and getting short fields, it sounds like a decent plan.
Mr. Axe. You understood my point perfectly. Thank you.
and both of you seem to be completely missing my point. Lets rewind 2 years. Do you think Chad Morris would ever leave Clemson to be the OC at VT? Rumor is he expressed interest in becoming VT's next HC if the job came open, but he never in his right mind would have jumped ship for the same job. Bud is a good DC but take the O&M glasses off for a moment. He's not head and shoulders better than everyone else in the industry. An OC who has had success anywhere at the P5 level is never going to come to VT to continue being an OC. That would be an absolutely insane decision. Bud does not have that kind of pull.
Now if an OC out there is offered the HC job in Blacksburg they may be pretty interested in trying to keep Bud around since he's a known quantity, but I just have this nagging feeling that if Bud doesn't get the HC gig in Blacksburg he's certainly not going to hang around to be the DC for some new guy. There is only one scenario where I see Bud in Blacksburg next year and I don't think he's going to be offered the job.
If I were you I would fully expect to see a Frank&Bud-less VT coaching staff in 2016
Not saying that Bud definitely stays as DC, but saying that he is definitely gone if he doesn't become the HC would be far from correct.
I'm not sure how you can call an opinion incorrect. Especially when I'm expressing extreme doubt that Bud would still be in Blacksburg but nowhere did I state it definitively.
Sorry, that is my bad I thought you were implying that he was leaving if he did not get the HC job. And to your point, I think that he will probably stay as DC but it really depends on who the next coach is. A guy like Kirby Smart? I doubt that he stays in that scenario. But if it is Morris, Fuente, or Herman I think there is a good chance he stays.
I'm sorry, I don't understand where you are getting "a good chance that he stays" from in that scenario. He just put decades of his coaching career into being the right hand man of a legend. He perennially produces a top tier defense with a variety of talent levels year after year, not to mention the intangibles (being an exemplary ambassador to the school, upholding VT values, etc). Then, the new AD hires some guy who's never been a head coach at a P5 level, but did really well as an coordinator at a P5 school (I think Bud did this too). Oh, and he's going to make about 2x-4x his salary most likely.
I'm not saying there's NO way he stays, I just don't see how Morris, Herman, or Fuente is a slam dunk to keep him
I think you misinterpreted what I said. I said that I expect him to leave if a coordinator like Kirby Smart is hired. I think that it is more likely he stays if Morris, Herman, or Fuente is hired compared to Smart or any other coordinator. I think in the end he stays, because I expect we will hire a current HC and not a coordinator.
No, I didn't misunderstand. Morris and Herman have ONE YEAR of HC experience at a non-P5 school. I don't see how that single year makes them such a major upgrade to Foster.
I'm not sure why Fedora's name keeps coming up. He is my least favorite on any list of potential coaches.
To respond to the actual concern brought up, I think that unrest is bound to happen no matter what happens, when it happens and who it happens for. This is only a natural part of the process we are in. Fortunately, we have a head coach who values the program far more than he values his own personal interest, hence the retirement announcement. We are waaaaaay ahead of the game in so many ways. We already know we need a coach, we have a coach leaving on his own terms and under great circumstances, we have a competent AD, we have great facilities, we have some good young talent... the list could go on. My point is simply that we are in great shape to get a quality head coach and in great shape shape to get a decent group of kids in for this next cycle.
And even if we don't have a good cycle this year, I'm not particularly worried. I'm more concerned with the long term affects of this hire. What I mean by that is are we getting a guy who has a reputation of developing relationships with HS coaches? Will the new head coach be able to sell VT and renew/revive/re-create the VT brand so that in-state & regional guys will want to be Hokies.
Fedora's name probably keeps coming up because he is not the least favorite of other people.
If Beamer values the Program and more importantly Foster's shot at D1 coaching, he retires after the Ohio State/Furman Game and Gives Foster the interim title. Foster gets 10 weeks to sell himself to the fans, the AD and the recruits. Come December 30th (or earlier) Whit reviews all the interviews and all the performance Bud gave and makes a decision. The retirement doesn't help anyone out. Frank wasn't going to make it to January. He could retire or be 'retired in the offseason'.
From Jerry Kills resigning Presser
Probably not....it's just not college football anymore. Besides VT not many programs are so set on it. Especially schools with a $70 million revenue
Memphis (Justin Fuente) (AAC) has
33% of players from Tennessee
10% from Florida
Ole Miss (Hugh Freeze a native,Memphis HS Football HC)
44% from Mississippi
VTech - 60% from VA 6% from Florida
Percent of recruits signed from instate of the college 2012--2015
Clemson - 35%
Stanford - 23%
Auburn - 28%
Wisconsin - 26%
Nebraska - 9%
UGa - 52%
I think I understand what you are getting at here, and I don't necessarily disagree... However, I don't understand why you chose to utilize those stats from those particular schools.
My point was simply that recruiting is a long term "war" not a one year "battle"... A coach who can establish some sort of identity/culture and make in-state & regional HS coaches comfortable with the ethos of the program is (most likely) going to have much more long term success regardless of what the 2016 class looks like.
Unfortunately it is more of a 2 year battle and HS coaches and relationships don't matter anymore if you want Top athletes. Top 4*/5* players are sold a program by the coach of the college to come there not the HS coach.
72% of the 129 current FBS coaches have been at their current school less than six years
Sure if you want a bunch of Local players that are 3* players and will win you a ACCCG every 3- 5 years then keep it up
sorry completely missed the reply
There is a huge difference between Kill and Beamer. If the Hokies were 7-3 at this point in the season, Beamer would not have retired, PERIOD. He would have coached out the rest of the year and next year. The biggest reason Beamer retired is at the time a 4-5 record.
Fedora's name is coming up because now that he has a competent defensive coordinator, UNC is tearing everybody up. The defense at UNC has been their main liability in all of the other years there.
That being said, Fedora is also Fedora's worse enemy. Like Lefty there are times he has ignored his running game (aka Hood) and played with two many QB's.
It keeps coming up because his agent is trying get a hefty increase and other commitments (increased $$ for assistance; approval of new indoor facility) out of UNC - and there's no better time than when you are 9-1 for the first time in...forever.
Nah I think if you hire a Fuente or a Herman, why wouldn't stud recruits want to follow their coaches to a better program a la Hill with Buzz(although minus the better program part).
Then, if you hire Foster, maybe we retain Pride and Deablo.
If Fuente can do what he did at Memphis then what he already would have at VT and with the recruiting class I'm sure he'd do fine with. The man can win with minimal talent, the campus is nice, and others can't speak of him being too old and possibly retiring. If we keep the defensive coaches even better!
Ahhh....the proverbial IF.
Sports history is loaded with coaches that could make a bad team good, but couldn't make good team great. They can be entirely different skill-sets. There are no guarantees that a coach who has done the former, can do the latter.
I have to call BS on Foster being HC dissuading O recruits from coming to Tech. I am betting O guys wish they had the kind of pride and reverence that the D has. Bring on Bud, and the O recruits will come.
you may have hit on something none of us have really brought up. Could Bud transform the fire and passion he has to the offensive side of the ball as well. Easier said than done as he is a defensive guy. BUT if he could get the pride, passion and attitude to spill over to the offensive side just as we are accustomed with our defense...well then we might have something special. I have no idea he could or would. Interesting concept to think about. What would that even look like?
Or would his offense look like Narduzzis? There is a lot of data out there, defensive HCs just don't normally have good offenses.
I agree with this. 2nd time I've agreed with cds7c. Rackin' 'em up
Narduzzi has been a head coach for how long? I understand your perspective but we are talking about Bud Foster. He fires up people with a look. You could be right but I don't think so. I could be wrong but I don't think so. Whit, test my theory, please!
Whit ain't testin nobody's theory.
You ain't got a plan for VT's offense, you ain't got a shot at the job.
Having a Narduzzi offense will dilute the talent currently in the program, making it hard to get the next great OC.
Time is now. Bud needs to have a stud OC in tow if he wants this job.
THIS! Bud has a plan, I bet. Only Whit n Frank get to hear it up front.
Are we talking the same thing or what? I want Bud to fire up the whole team!
That fire was there last night in a Bud Foster recruited running back, everyone wonders what an O with the Bud will look like. I think we shall see very soon.
Rushing for 165 yards against GT isn't a good thing. GT had an above average night on run defense. Gt is avg 173 ypg rushing and VT ended getting 165
Virginia, North Carolina, and Notre Dame all had over 200 yards rushing
I'd argue that's more a function of play calling than the O's ability to run the ball. For the 2nd half, everyone commenting on the game was asking why Lefty didn't run more (felt like Stiney calling plays vs Kansas when Ore was unstoppable).
I think we threw on 1st down more than 70% of the time. That's outrageous. It falls incomplete. then you run on second down for 0-6 yards to set up a 3rd and medium-long. Now you have to throw again for the first down. You're not going to put a lot of yards on the ground that way.
I've said elsewhere that I thought this may have been SL's worst game at VT...precisely for the reasons you point out. GT was a team just begging to be run on.
If he had run the ball on 1st down 60% of the time - with GTs run defense - you would have seen a bunch of 2 and 4 or 5 or 6 and that would have opened up the play book for Brewer rather than putting him behind the 8 ball with 2nd and long every other set of downs.
It really won't matter because the recruiting class isn't that good anyway. Outside of the WRs, it is all 2 and 3 star guys. Basically a coin flip of who will pan out. Might as well let the new guy start with a clean slate with whomever he wants after looking at film.
The way UNC is playing, it won't matter who we bring in, we are 3 years away from contending for the Coastal, if we ever do again. Their offense paired with their defense is the kind of stuff National Title contenders are made of, and they have the recruiting to pull it off.
True, and this is what Whit needs to consider when making his HC hire.
He has to get this right.
What recruiting does UNC have over VT defensively? According to 247sports composite rankings UNC has exactly 3 defensive recruits that are higher than a 3 star. How is that any better than the 6 composite 4 stars that VT has gotten in the same time frame?
What happens when Defense doesn't decide games anymore.
Lets say UNC is held to 75% of their offensive avg by a great defense performance - 371 yards in the game (Their worst Offensive game of the year) and 32 points
most thru passing as the defense holds on to limit rushing
VT is held to its offensive avg by decent defense but a good final performance by brewer 370 yards and 30 points (See NC State game)
VT has scored 30+ pts against Furman Purdue and Duke*
did this answer the question?...I don't think this answered the question. You should run for president.
Does this game explain it in person better?
pretty close to what i was saying
Question:
Answer:
You rambling on about some hypothetical about how teams play to certain fractions of their averages. Or. Something.
I have no idea how anything you said even remotely answers the question about defensive recruiting.
from the original response
Yea I messed that response up on Saturday post game, my fault for never fixing it.
Defense is important but not a game changer if you have a strong offense. A strong offense was held low by a good defense, but the offense won the game. Brewer had his best game of the year. Williams had his near worst games of the year.
The better Offense won - UNC
I guess you just completely ignored the question you were responding to and made up your own question and then answered it. I get that.
My point is you didn't address the question to which you were responding at all. You did answer your own question, though. So there is that. And to be fair, I get what you're saying and I don't disagree with it. These days there is so much focus on scoring points and winning games with style points. It's important to have a potent offense in Blacksburg moving forward if we want to get to the next level. I agree with that sentiment. We still need to have a defense though. Everyone laughs at the Big XII in general because that whole league is "defense optional" and I don't think we really want that here. Offense wins games. Defense wins championships. We need to be able to score points, for sure, but we also need to be able to stop the other guys from scoring too. It sounds really silly because it's so simple but it's something that most of the Big XII just ignores. It's probably why that conference will never have a true Championship contender.
Cool, the question you asked
What recruiting does UNC have over VT defensively?
my response was what if defense isn't going to decide this game,
what if our defense plays a great game but our offense can't match their offense
My example was a best guess on how well a good defense would stop UNC and how a great Offense from VT would preform vs the UNC offense production
You can't say Defense kept Big 12 out of the playoff. The lack of a conference champion was the pretty consensus reason
As for rankings, the best defense requires the best offense (Mich St)
well, for starters I didn't even pose the original question which you still haven't answered. That's really not the point at this stage. I do understand what you're saying, but I'm saying that defense is still important.
I never said that the Big XII won't get a team in the playoff because they don't play defense. You're inferring that from me saying that them not playing defense means they'll never have a true contender. They may very well make it to the playoff, but the other teams in that playoff group will have defenses to go along with their offenses. Until a Big XII team starts playing serious defense they're not going to beat the best teams in the country. The best teams in the country have defenses that will limit a team like Baylor to well below their season average offensively. If Baylor can't score at will against a team they can't stop they can't win. That has nothing to do with whether or not they get the opportunity.
Having a good offense is certainly important, but the key is balance. Oregon was an all offense, no defense team and they got smacked in the title game when they ran into a balanced team. As far as us v. UNC goes as was the original issue brought up here, i don't buy that they're so much farther ahead of us that we can't compete with them for at least 3 years which is what the original comment stated. Losing Williams and Quinshad Davis next year instantly brings that offense down a notch. Also, i highly doubt Chizik is planning on staying UNC d-coordinator for an extended period of time so their defensive future is uncertain. If we can just get a top 50-60 offense with a new offensive minded coach to pair with a defense around 20, we're a solid top 25 team and will certainly be able to hang with UNC.
I'm fairly confident that our next coach will have our offense in the top 30. We have a ton of talent there. We just need somebody who can put it all together. I'm a firm believer that Whit will hire the right guy to do it. I think if we have a top 30 offense and a 30-50 defense we'll be fine.
So far tonight, Memphis is beating Houston. This is a great scouting opportunity for potential coaches.
Houston has stormed to the lead with 1:27 left in regulation
edit: Memphis misses a FG wide right!
Meanwhile Mizzou announces interest in Herman, Fuente, and Rhule.
#allthecoaches
Mizzou has announced interest or some writers and/or bloggers are speculating that is who should be on Mizzou's list? Big difference....
Was in the coaching search ticket and reported by ESPNs Brett McMurphy. So take it for what is worth.
That's nice. They enjoy their pick of our leftovers
Not sure where to put this and I haven't seen it anywhere here but Joel Caleb and Desmond Frye are apparently being honored as seniors this week. (Can't find the tweet) That means they will not return for their 5th year.
Caleb would not be a shock, Frye is a bit of a surprise since he is seeing the field
I'll spell out current recruiting situations for everyone based on names I've seen skimming through the thread. All information is coming from 247.
Herman at Houston
Recruiting Class Rank: 32
AAC Class Rank: 1
Highlights: 5-star DT (11 Nationally), 4-Star WR (225 Nationally), 3-star OT (34 Nationally)
Cincinnati-native likely means a better recruiting opportunity for him at VT.
Fuente at Memphis
Recruiting Class Rank: 88
AAC Rank: 8
Highlights: 3-star QB (780 nationally)
Oklahoma native that is more likely to closer to Mizzou, imo.
Rhule at Temple
Recruiting Class Rank: 74
AAC Rank: 5
Highlights: 3-star Safety (685 Nationally and from VA)
Rhule has a lot of recruits from Maryland and PA that would probably be interested in VT.
Fedora at UNC
National Recruiting Rank: 27
ACC Rank: 5
Highlights: 4-star dual QB (306 Nationally), 3-star OT (357 Nationally and from VA)
Fedora has a lot of recruits from the VT pipeline states
Care to do this for Mullen, I am way too lazy and could not do as succinct of a job.
i think...we all think that whoevers the next coach, he's fired after the very first sweep he tries to run
Dylan Rivers picks PSU. Recruiting keeps on rolling.
We aren't going to be winning any recruits right now until the new coach is announced. The good thing is, the ones who haven't picked us could change their minds quickly if we get the right guy.
Yep, I put zero to none stock in recruiting until the new coach is announced.