It is going to take time. Any detailed analysis will require multiple games and looks against different defenses. We are collecting the film now. Patience!
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this week will be breaking down UVA. Then we will start watching film- remember, we have to preview the bowl opponent as well. I expect that January will be Fuente month, with February being recruit review month.
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Just skip the first half. Just put "that was one of the worst performances the VT offense has had".
I'm not an Xs and Os guy, but I would be curious about the OL adjustments because it was better in the 2nd half and Brewer actually had a pocket to throw the ball down field.
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Fuente, a former RB coach, was looking for a way that accentuated their run-heavy approach, with an emphasis on simplicity and efficiency. Without having a dominant receiver at the time, the challenge was trying to find the simplest way to get the ball into a variety of player's hands without spending an inordinate amount of time diverting from their core offense.
YESSSIR!
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Uh, yes. Will the running backs be rotating in for every play or just for every running play? I know we like to give the defense a giant, blinking, neon-lighted clue about what we'll be doing.
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Will Bud have to make any dramatic changes to the way he conditions and prepares his defense, assuming of course, Fuente carries over his up-tempo style of offense? If so, what might those be? Naturally, the offense outscoring the opponent, eliminates most worries...
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Fuente said he doesn't want to leave his defense high and dry. He's more concerned with controlling the tempo than pushing it. He said that in interviews. In any case, I think his offense will have more success moving the ball than any offense we've had over the last 10 years. I think 3-and-outs by our slow clunky offenses did more damage to Bud's group than any successful up-tempo spread offense would ever do.
Think of it like this; Bud is used to sending his defense out to defend a team after our offense has a quick 3-and-out several times over during a game with the added pressure of having to prevent a score just to keep the game tied and manageable. Now, with the proven ability of Fuente to put points on the board, the worst case scenario is Bud will have to put his unit on the field with the same frequency but more times than not will be protecting a lead as opposed to trying to keep the game within reach.
I'd take the successful up-tempo every day of the week and twice on Saturdays over the slow clunky 3-and-out machines we've grown accustomed to around here.
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Opponent run, run, incomplete pass, punt. Rinse and repeat
what might be even cooler is that if we play with a lead - and science be praised, maybe even a 2 score advantage - defense will be able to pin their ears back and do what they do best, pressure/sack the qb.
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For those wanting to see less of a running back rotation, Fuente had five players with more than 50 carries this year. VT had three over 50 (McMillian, Motley, and Rogers- with Edmunds five short of making it.)
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Do you think that is a byproduct of the offensive philosophy (some kind of odd spread power run/option hybrid that really freaks me out) or more about UM not having a true stand out feature back
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I am not sure yet. I need to see the flow of several games to get a good feel. The only consistency I have found yet is that Fuente loves stick and curl routes to his slot guys. To me, he has way more talent to work with at VT, so I think he can take more shots down field.
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Gotcha. I think that was one of the big things at UM, no standout wrs or rbs. It opened it up for him in some regards because they were all fairly comparable skill-wise, meaning he didn't paint giant signs on the field for a pass or run depending on who was in the game. But he also didn't have anyone to key on either.
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Looking at some stats they seemed to have a 3 back theme. a clear RB1- Doroland Dorceus 144 carries RB2- Jarvis Cooper 87 carries RB3 Sam Craft 77 carries
for shits and giggles
their rb that had 58 carries gained 310 yards and 4 TDs
JC had 40 carries for 143 yards and 1 TD
the issue wasn't the rotation it was why are we rotating backs when 2 of them don't produce results.
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Seriously, the issue wasn't with having 17 different running backs touch the ball throughout the game. The issue was the manner in which those 17 RBs got their carries. If we run a different RB for each quarter of the game but all of their snaps are strung together logically then I don't have an issue with a RB rotation.
When you put JC in for one play and then pull him out for McMillian and then throw Trey in on 3rd down that just makes absolutely no sense to me. Give a guy at least an entire series of plays. Not one play each for 3 different guys on a 3-and-out drive. Rinse. Repeat. That's just dumb.
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he was asked why Cooper didn't get many touches in the 1st half of a game this season (after putting up a great performance in the 2nd half) and he said that he wants to keep the RB's in for a series at a time at least, so they can get in the flow of the game, and then he will stick with a guy if he seems like he's warming up. In this case Dorceus got almost all the 1st half action.
sounded much better to me than the strategy we were employing of rotating players almost every down, and subbing based on formation / play call.
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Personally, I hope we try to have a balanced offense under Fuente year one. Although we don't have much depth at the receiver position, we do have some skilled freshmen expected to come in, and that could help our passing game tremendously in the spread offense. He'll find a way to build the passing game around Ford, Phillips, Hodges, and maybe Kline/Burke, since those will be our likeliest contributors early on. The running game would also be a good crutch for our offense if: a) We hand the ball to McMillian more than just 10-15 times a game and b) McKenzie and Williams come back off of similar knee injuries well enough to warrant competition with McMillian.
I'm sure Fuente is excited at the potential of a spread offense in Blacksburg with the talent we have, and he'll have some young QB's to develop as well.
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I'm not a football guru but this is sorta how I see it playing out:
Fuente says his offense is built by molding it to the available talent. That's great!
We have a really talented but inexperienced QB (Lawson), a really talented RB (McMillian) and some talented receivers (Ford, Phillips, Hodges) with experience. I expect him to lean heavily on the running game through both McMillian and Lawson. Especially early in the season. We'll probably see some option stuff and QB reads. I would also expect to see lots of quick slants in the passing game. Short, quick, easy passes for Lawson to receivers in space. Simple stuff that will help to get Lawson acclimated to the speed of the game. I doubt very much if they'll throw the whole offense at him right off the bat. I think the offense will slowly open up game-by-game as the season progresses. I imagine there will be plenty of emphasis on downfield blocking in the WR room too. I think later into the season we'll see more down field passing off of play action. That depends somewhat on how accurate Lawson can be. That's how I see it. Take it FWIW though, cuz I'm just a couch potato with no football playing experience.
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Don't forget about the RBs we have that were injured this year, or Deshawn McClease. We are legit four deep with talented running backs, and that doesn't even count Sam Rogers or the Peoples Champion
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I still think Trey Edmunds is a very solid back if used correctly...his vision isn't as good as McMillian's but he's a better pass blocker and in many ways they're more similar than different.
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I preach patience. It is easy to watch two games and say we understand his system. That would be jumping the gun. I can say from a passing game perspective, in the limited film I have watched so far Lynch has thrown to his primary route almost every time. He max protected a bunch against Ole Miss. Part of that was because Ole Miss was so loaded on the DL.
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High praise from one of the best football minds out there:
Virginia Tech's hire of Justin Fuente is excellent. Also, I am pretty sure he invented the Inverted Veer/Power Read: https://t.co/plcPTlYJpb— Chris B. Brown (@smartfootball) December 1, 2015
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Didn't Bud make the 4-3 a thing again? He's certainly no sloth in the innovation department, either.
Not sure if these two are going to be best Buds or rivals! Going to be un Fuente of pretty intense minds getting down to work for next season soon enough.
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The plan for VT was very good. But in watching this game you couldn't help but get the impression that one team was excited to play on that sloppy field, in driving rain, in that muck. They were excited to fly around and smash somebody, slide around a bit, and get up and do it again.
*SIGHS* Maybe we'll get back to this...
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Didn't want to make a new thread, but is it safe to say that VT's roster is more talented than that of Memphis? I have no doubt that it will take time for the program to turn around, but if that's the case, do you think it would be more because VT's players do not fit Fuente's system, or they would just need time to learn and adapt to it?
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see...the great thing about Fuente is he doesn't have a 'system' offense that he has to plug certain players into. He doesn't have to force players into certain roles. There is no "square peg, round hole" issue with Fuente's philosophy. He has said that he molds his offense to the available talents. I don't think we have to worry about waiting for Fuente to get "his guys" in the "system." He won't have a whole heck of a lot of time to work with the guys he has before September but I'm sure over the next year the offense will really take shape in a positive way. It's not going to be pretty at first. We'll be riding Foster's defense for the first several games of the season. Fortunately we have a pretty easy schedule and I think our record will benefit from that. I think this offense will be built faster than you may think, though. I wouldn't be surprised if by the end of the season we're scoring 35-40 points per game. (I do want to make it clear that this is NOT my expectation).
Fuente started at Illinois State running a pro style, I formation offense. He adopted the up tempo spread when he moved to TCU. He has enough knowledge of multiple offensive philosophies and enough experience to take advantage of that knowledge given what he has to work with to get the best out of the players on the roster. I have full confidence in his ability to maximize production with the current players. I can't imagine it's going to look very good early on. I doubt if we're able to beat Tennessee. We could very easily start 2-2 or 1-3 but I think the offense will start to come into its own half way through the season and we'll finish the season strong.
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Comments
Sunday Funday huh?
Yeayuh
Just know you were not alone in your misery today
It is going to take time. Any detailed analysis will require multiple games and looks against different defenses. We are collecting the film now. Patience!
French, you're the man. Thank you.
Don't forget about Billdozer! Someone's gotta collect all the tape and chop it up so it's actually useful.
Soooo.... Tuesday or Wednesday then?
/s if not apparent
this week will be breaking down UVA. Then we will start watching film- remember, we have to preview the bowl opponent as well. I expect that January will be Fuente month, with February being recruit review month.
That sounds like a great plan. Looking forward to it!
God bless you, French.
We still need a breakdown of Loeffler's offense vs UVA on Saturday!
Working on that too. UVA film review first (after all the news tomorrow.)
Fuente's offense and bowl opponent review will make for a busy December.
We've got the whole offseason, no need for a frantic push for the month of December!
Just skip the first half. Just put "that was one of the worst performances the VT offense has had".
I'm not an Xs and Os guy, but I would be curious about the OL adjustments because it was better in the 2nd half and Brewer actually had a pocket to throw the ball down field.
"That was one of the worst performances the VT offense has had".......this season.
One word...Pitt.
But we've been watching it break down all season long
Leg just for having a different "I see what you did there" GIF.
Fighting the urge Jeep. I am fighting the urge. Lol.
I've been looking for general articles on his philosophy to no avail. I have found a few articles on specific formations and plays.
not sure what you found but this is the best of what i found:
http://brophyfootball.blogspot.com/2011/01/justin-fuente-tcu-offense-key...
http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2015/10/22/9582354/memphis-tige...
http://www.sbnation.com/longform/2014/8/20/5990929/college-football-coac...
http://coachingsearch.com/article?a=Justin-Fuente-describes-how-the-Memp...
Yeah, I found the first three. After today's presser I'm still confused.
Link #1 is awesome
YESSSIR!
Pass, pass, run, pass, pass...TD! Pass, pass, pass, run, pass...TD! Pass, pass, run, run, pass, pass...TD! These offensive drives will, of course, be separated by defensive stops by Bud's crew. Any questions?
Uh, yes. Will the running backs be rotating in for every play or just for every running play? I know we like to give the defense a giant, blinking, neon-lighted clue about what we'll be doing.
Just guessing. :-).
So, basically, we are all still in the dark about what the offense is all about?
/s
The links above give a good idea on Coach Fuente's approach.
He does not wait to be trailing in the
second halffourth quarter, he starts the game fully dipped.Will Bud have to make any dramatic changes to the way he conditions and prepares his defense, assuming of course, Fuente carries over his up-tempo style of offense? If so, what might those be? Naturally, the offense outscoring the opponent, eliminates most worries...
Fuente said he doesn't want to leave his defense high and dry. He's more concerned with controlling the tempo than pushing it. He said that in interviews. In any case, I think his offense will have more success moving the ball than any offense we've had over the last 10 years. I think 3-and-outs by our slow clunky offenses did more damage to Bud's group than any successful up-tempo spread offense would ever do.
Think of it like this; Bud is used to sending his defense out to defend a team after our offense has a quick 3-and-out several times over during a game with the added pressure of having to prevent a score just to keep the game tied and manageable. Now, with the proven ability of Fuente to put points on the board, the worst case scenario is Bud will have to put his unit on the field with the same frequency but more times than not will be protecting a lead as opposed to trying to keep the game within reach.
I'd take the successful up-tempo every day of the week and twice on Saturdays over the slow clunky 3-and-out machines we've grown accustomed to around here.
running with / congratulating the offense as they race down the field no longer allowed except as punishment
I'm hoping that things go VT : pass, pass, run run run, pass, run, pass TD. Opponent run, run, incomplete pass, punt. Rinse and repeat
what might be even cooler is that if we play with a lead - and science be praised, maybe even a 2 score advantage - defense will be able to pin their ears back and do what they do best, pressure/sack the qb.
And force those INTs.
run, run, pick six you mean?
Is it technically an up-tempo offense if they never step foot on the field?
For those wanting to see less of a running back rotation, Fuente had five players with more than 50 carries this year. VT had three over 50 (McMillian, Motley, and Rogers- with Edmunds five short of making it.)
Do you think that is a byproduct of the offensive philosophy (some kind of odd spread power run/option hybrid that really freaks me out) or more about UM not having a true stand out feature back
I am not sure yet. I need to see the flow of several games to get a good feel. The only consistency I have found yet is that Fuente loves stick and curl routes to his slot guys. To me, he has way more talent to work with at VT, so I think he can take more shots down field.
Gotcha. I think that was one of the big things at UM, no standout wrs or rbs. It opened it up for him in some regards because they were all fairly comparable skill-wise, meaning he didn't paint giant signs on the field for a pass or run depending on who was in the game. But he also didn't have anyone to key on either.
Looking at some stats they seemed to have a 3 back theme. a clear RB1- Doroland Dorceus 144 carries RB2- Jarvis Cooper 87 carries RB3 Sam Craft 77 carries
for shits and giggles
their rb that had 58 carries gained 310 yards and 4 TDs
JC had 40 carries for 143 yards and 1 TD
the issue wasn't the rotation it was why are we rotating backs when 2 of them don't produce results.
Or did Memphis just run 300 more offensive plays than us and the rotation was necessary for players health and stamina?
There's also this. Which I am perfectly fine with as long as we get +300 in the next few years
I guess that means that running back rotations aren't inherently flawed after all?
But did he swap them out every other play?
Seriously, the issue wasn't with having 17 different running backs touch the ball throughout the game. The issue was the manner in which those 17 RBs got their carries. If we run a different RB for each quarter of the game but all of their snaps are strung together logically then I don't have an issue with a RB rotation.
When you put JC in for one play and then pull him out for McMillian and then throw Trey in on 3rd down that just makes absolutely no sense to me. Give a guy at least an entire series of plays. Not one play each for 3 different guys on a 3-and-out drive. Rinse. Repeat. That's just dumb.
he was asked why Cooper didn't get many touches in the 1st half of a game this season (after putting up a great performance in the 2nd half) and he said that he wants to keep the RB's in for a series at a time at least, so they can get in the flow of the game, and then he will stick with a guy if he seems like he's warming up. In this case Dorceus got almost all the 1st half action.
sounded much better to me than the strategy we were employing of rotating players almost every down, and subbing based on formation / play call.
Never has been. Talent gaps are problems.
yeah and coaching decisions
Personally, I hope we try to have a balanced offense under Fuente year one. Although we don't have much depth at the receiver position, we do have some skilled freshmen expected to come in, and that could help our passing game tremendously in the spread offense. He'll find a way to build the passing game around Ford, Phillips, Hodges, and maybe Kline/Burke, since those will be our likeliest contributors early on. The running game would also be a good crutch for our offense if: a) We hand the ball to McMillian more than just 10-15 times a game and b) McKenzie and Williams come back off of similar knee injuries well enough to warrant competition with McMillian.
I'm sure Fuente is excited at the potential of a spread offense in Blacksburg with the talent we have, and he'll have some young QB's to develop as well.
I'm not a football guru but this is sorta how I see it playing out:
Fuente says his offense is built by molding it to the available talent. That's great!
We have a really talented but inexperienced QB (Lawson), a really talented RB (McMillian) and some talented receivers (Ford, Phillips, Hodges) with experience. I expect him to lean heavily on the running game through both McMillian and Lawson. Especially early in the season. We'll probably see some option stuff and QB reads. I would also expect to see lots of quick slants in the passing game. Short, quick, easy passes for Lawson to receivers in space. Simple stuff that will help to get Lawson acclimated to the speed of the game. I doubt very much if they'll throw the whole offense at him right off the bat. I think the offense will slowly open up game-by-game as the season progresses. I imagine there will be plenty of emphasis on downfield blocking in the WR room too. I think later into the season we'll see more down field passing off of play action. That depends somewhat on how accurate Lawson can be. That's how I see it. Take it FWIW though, cuz I'm just a couch potato with no football playing experience.
Don't forget about the RBs we have that were injured this year, or Deshawn McClease. We are legit four deep with talented running backs, and that doesn't even count Sam Rogers or the Peoples Champion
Don't forget DJ Reid either.
I still think Trey Edmunds is a very solid back if used correctly...his vision isn't as good as McMillian's but he's a better pass blocker and in many ways they're more similar than different.
I preach patience. It is easy to watch two games and say we understand his system. That would be jumping the gun. I can say from a passing game perspective, in the limited film I have watched so far Lynch has thrown to his primary route almost every time. He max protected a bunch against Ole Miss. Part of that was because Ole Miss was so loaded on the DL.
High praise from one of the best football minds out there:
Didn't Bud make the 4-3 a thing again? He's certainly no sloth in the innovation department, either.
Not sure if these two are going to be best Buds or rivals! Going to be un Fuente of pretty intense minds getting down to work for next season soon enough.
Ha, follow that link and in the comments lies this beauty.
Oh, what a day that was.
Killed my first iPhone. Totally worth it. I hope to see us again have the intensity of those years on both sides of the ball, very soon.
I got too much water in my headphone jack for that game and thought my phone was broken for a couple days.
The last sentence started with a conjunction. Bad form.
Just kidding. Chris does great work.
*SIGHS* Maybe we'll get back to this...
Didn't want to make a new thread, but is it safe to say that VT's roster is more talented than that of Memphis? I have no doubt that it will take time for the program to turn around, but if that's the case, do you think it would be more because VT's players do not fit Fuente's system, or they would just need time to learn and adapt to it?
see...the great thing about Fuente is he doesn't have a 'system' offense that he has to plug certain players into. He doesn't have to force players into certain roles. There is no "square peg, round hole" issue with Fuente's philosophy. He has said that he molds his offense to the available talents. I don't think we have to worry about waiting for Fuente to get "his guys" in the "system." He won't have a whole heck of a lot of time to work with the guys he has before September but I'm sure over the next year the offense will really take shape in a positive way. It's not going to be pretty at first. We'll be riding Foster's defense for the first several games of the season. Fortunately we have a pretty easy schedule and I think our record will benefit from that. I think this offense will be built faster than you may think, though. I wouldn't be surprised if by the end of the season we're scoring 35-40 points per game. (I do want to make it clear that this is NOT my expectation).
Fuente started at Illinois State running a pro style, I formation offense. He adopted the up tempo spread when he moved to TCU. He has enough knowledge of multiple offensive philosophies and enough experience to take advantage of that knowledge given what he has to work with to get the best out of the players on the roster. I have full confidence in his ability to maximize production with the current players. I can't imagine it's going to look very good early on. I doubt if we're able to beat Tennessee. We could very easily start 2-2 or 1-3 but I think the offense will start to come into its own half way through the season and we'll finish the season strong.
Not analysis, but super hot take:
If you add 4 points to every box score from a new offense: we win the Coastal.
HypeHypeHypeHypeHypeHypeHypeHypeHypeHypeHypeHype