This is exciting as all get-out. Both teams look like they can (and have) score at any time, and both defenses look capable of stuffing any given play or making a big one themselves. We've also seen a couple returns come that close to breaking for a TD. Anyone can score from anywhere at any time. Me gusta.
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Ok someone with a rule book or better Google fu than me see if you can answer this. When the offense subs the official stands over the ball to give the defense a chance to sub, what keeps the defense from just taking their sweet time and letting the play clock run down?
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They only get about 10 seconds or so. Basically the center judge (I think I've seen the umpire do it occasionally) gives what he judges to be a reasonable amount of time for the defense to substitute. If they're lagging intentionally, he'll step off the ball and let the offense go after a few seconds.
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Notice how the Bama DB played the WRs hands, and didn't look back for the ball, just thought I'd point that out for the "why don't our DBs look for the ball? everyone else does" crowd
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I've compiled every PI call against us from this year. I'm debating about publishing the video. You'd be amazed how many are "he didn't turn his head" calls. The risk/reward might not be worth it, but I don't know how to figure out that stat.
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Maybe in slow motion. At full speed, it looked like his arm got there right as the ball did. Pass interference or not, that is usually not going to get called.
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Whose idea was it to have national championships on Mondays? I have to wake up at 5:30 for fieldwork but there's no way I can miss the last quarter of this game. Come on, Clemson, you have this...
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The kicker for Bama was offsides. There was no chance the zebras were going to actually catch that there though. He overran the ball by half a yard and then kicked
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Did anyone else think the he lost control of the ball during the dive, and before he crossed the pylon? It sure seemed like it once they slowed it down. Obviously it wasn't looked at because their name starts with A and ends with labama.
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I have no idea why anyone thinks this term is applicable tonight. It doesn't mean to lose. It means an absolutely inexplicable loss after elevated expectations; dropping one to an inferior team or getting absolutely pantsed. The fact that this is a one-possession game into the last 1:30 in the #1 vs. #2 National Championship game makes this term absolutely inapplicable.
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That's the way any game is lost when two excellent teams play. A few small mistakes make the difference. But it's not as if Clemson went out and made a bunch of bone-headed plays, turnovers, penalties, etc. Lost a guy in coverage a couple times and missed one or two critical tackles. If that's enough for people to use a derisive term reserved for idiotic losses, then truly it's lost all meaning. This was a hell of an entertaining football game. If anyone "Clemsoned" this playoff season, it was Michigan State. What an ugly egg they laid.
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Normally, I'd say that you can't really Clemson anything if this was the Natty Title game, but man... Clemson fans have to feel gutted today. They outplayed Alabama in almost every possible way and it still wasn't enough because of their inability to stop the big play (or cover the TE). Their offense could score at will, their defense played a decent game, but their Special Teams gave up 2 awful breakdowns, and that was the difference.
I mean, I definitely agree that Michigan State choked the biggest in the playoff (if you even consider that a choke, as you have to be present to choke), but I also think that Clemson did end up Clemsoning it a bit. I mean, they outplayed them, and yet crumbled at the worst times leading to the loss. Its like the 2012 Sugar Bowl for us that is so hard to get over because we knew we were the better team. Was it lose to Wake Forest bad, no... but they had to collapse pretty heavily the way they were playing and the way Bama was playing to lose, and that's exactly what happened.
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I disagree that Clemson outplayed Bama. I think they were very evenly matched and Clemson had a few critical busts. I think that's just the way that games turn when two similarly skilled teams play each other (that can be two equally good or two equally bad teams); the ones that make the fewest mistakes win.
Feeling gutted is one thing. Feeling confident that they'd win only to get the doors blown off would have been Clemsoning. That's what has always defined that term - getting beaten in an inexplicable manner and/or getting beaten by a clearly inferior opponent. This game checks neither box for me.
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I'm gonna disagree with this. Alabama consistently made big plays when they had to and Clemson made a lot of them but made less. They also didn't play well on defense and consistently gave up big plays. I do not think Clemson outplayed Alabama by any stretch. Deshaun Watson was incredible but half their offense was him buying time and scrambling when plays broke down. Alabama won the scheme battle. Clemson had more first downs, but thats looming as somewhat of a ghost stat given that they didn't always turn those into points.
Also comparing it to the 2012 Sugar Bowl is a little ridiculous because we held Michigan to like 188 yards and gave up a few really strange plays. Much different than giving up almost 500 yards. Plus the game really wasn't as close as the final score, Alabama put it away late and they scored late on prevent to drain clock. I know that "technically" they would have had a shot if they had the onside kick but the game ended with Alabama playing better in the 4th qtr.
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Two of Bamas TD's were not because of better schemes or better players just a wide open TE. I don't see where Bama was playing so well. Henry was bottled up most of the game, Coker was getting sacked a lot.
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Two of Bamas TD's were not because of better schemes or better players just a wide open TE
Not because of scheme?? TJ Green may or may not have busted that coverage on the second one, but either way the seam was open it was the right play and it was attacked beautifully. If it was an inverted cover 2 or the like then it wasn't TJ Green's responsibility to play deep coverage, if he was supposed to be there, the threat of the run kept him from back up into his zone. Either way, good call by Bama.
The first one is a little more perplexing. If that was a fake screen planned play, then hell of a design. If it was just OJ Howard making a quick read and he and Coker being on the same page, that's the same kind of improvising and chemistry that people were praising Deshaun for all game.
Henry had almost 160 yards rushing...
Coker did get sacked a lot and they were mostly coverage sacks or bonehead staying in a deep drop against great ends instead of stepping up in the pocket. If they lost I would have likely cited Deshaun's avoiding sacks and Coker's inability to as one of the biggest differences.
They also played really well in the third quarter where they had horrible field position for several straight drives and managed to keep Clemson from putting them away like they had many opponents in similar situations.
Seems to me like you just hate Bama and are looking for reasons to think they didn't play well. They completely shut down Gallman on the ground (and shut down period until a few late receptions against conservative zones) and forced Deshaun to make all the plays with his arm and legs, he just happened to step up to the plate in that regard.
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The breaking point for the game was when Saban decided to onside kick with a tied score. I don't think anyone would have expected that out of him at that point.
Can't really blame Clemson for missing that one.
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How can you not blame them? They were lined up too tight, if a Clemson player had been anywhere near that ball he could have waived for a fair catch and there was nothing Bama could have done to stop Clemson from getting the ball.
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a.) Who was expecting the onside there?
b.) Are we really thinking that in the heat of the moment, a college player would have thought about that?
c.) Even if they did call for fair catch, there's still a chance that they drop the ball and Bama recovers.
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I wouldn't say that, this has been a good close game the whole way. I'm not saying Clemson hasn't made mistakes, but losing to a touchdown favorite Bama team in the national championship isn't exactly a choke job.
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Most teams lose based on the plays they don't make. I don't know why you insist on forcing the point that Clemson underachieved or choked. They played very well, but not well enough. That sucks for Clemson fans and Bama haters, but that doesn't take away from all the things Clemson did well tonight. They could have won, but they didn't because of a few errors. That's what I expect from a national championship. A close fought game won by the team the best exploits the other team's mistakes.
It's called football.
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I don't disagree with that, but I don't consider what happened tonight a choke or "clemsoning". They lost to a favored team and it was close until the end. They made more mistakes and that's why they lost, but you could say that about pretty much any close game between two fairly equal teams.
Edit: I took another look at your previous post, and I think we are fundamentally in agreement. They lost because they made more mistakes. That's indisputably true, I think we just disagree in that I don't consider that "choking". To me a choke implies a favored team losing to an inferior opponent. I don't think that's what happened tonight.
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Yes, I know it urban dictionary, but the definitions fit the word pretty well, and you clearly don't know what it means. Clemson came up short, didn't play a perfect game, but they weren't even favored and played toe to toe with one of the greatest dynasty teams (4 titles in 7 years)... I'd say they didn't pull "clemsoning"
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Except all those future NFL players didn't outmuscle or out hustle Clemson for the most part. Clemson players of coaches screwed up four times to give Bama the win. Take out even one of those wide open TE TD's and he game is different. I think this game showed Bama is beatable with the right scheme and the right players. Clemson had the right players just not the best scheme and execution.
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I have to say, I hate that Bama is going to win another freakin' NC, but I am glad that it was at least a good game. I hate it when a super hyped game like the NC or super bowl is a boring blowout or 6-3 snooze fest. Taking all personal rooting interest out of it, this was a really entertaining game.
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I think the injury to their starter in the 1st half really hurt them, it was right after that they missed their assignment and let the TE sneak behind for two TD's.
Clemsons a really good team though, Id imagine theyll be the favorite for the ACC next year...
...to the experts, to the ones in the know, VTs the darkhorse favorite to win it all.
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Man, watching this game makes you realize just how far off we are from a Natty. Those guys looked like men out there. Just absurd. I just hope we get there soon.
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What's scarier is how far off Michigan State and Oklahoma were from a Natty. These two teams tonight were just on a whole different level exponentially from everyone else.
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I honestly think if OSU had faced Bama instead of Michigan St, we would have had a Clemson-OSU championship tonight. They didn't always play like it, but I think OSU is still one of the deepest and most talented teams in the country. Shame they couldn't hold off the Spartans and get a shot at the playoffs again, because I think they would have beaten Bama soundly.
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Fuente has been our coach for 7 days and we are already taking about how far away we are? No. I saw what he was capable of at Memphis with a team with far less talent than our own. Get LB help for Bud and our defense is fine. We have the talent to be good on offense and the coaches to bring it out of them.
In fact, we could be closer right now as a program to legitimately getting and staying at that level than we have been since 1999. Shit, if UNC is capable, so are we.
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I think its more of an assessment of how talented those two teams were last night over our inefficiencies or lack of talent, at least thats how I took it.
I mean, watching that game, those two teams were clearly the best two teams in college football, that was such a good game.
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What? Why are you bringing Fuente into this? He has nothing to do with the talent we have on campus. Face it, we are far off from competing with the big boys right now. Once upon a time, we were there, now? No, we have a lot of work to do, and I'll support us 100% of the way.
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No...talent wins chips these days. We don't have it yet and even with a good backer I don't believe we will field a defense that is at that level. When I look at the mammoths that played yesterday at seemingly every position, it shows how talent rules.
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I mean, you can disagree I guess, but it isn't really a debatable matter. Looking at the teams that have Natties in the last 20 years, almost all have had top 10 or better recruiting classes. Obviously good coaching is important as was seen in the game last night, but top programs many times have a good coach and good recruiting.
I hope Fuente will bring all that to VT, but obviously it is too early to know if he will be a success here.
I think offensively we are OK. Ford is great. But besides Cam we have no depth. You need that to win. I like Travon as well and think he could be a RB on a championship team. OLine is where we need improvement to make all the other positions better. QB is big though, it can make or break a team, especially when they are deficient in talent else where. I we start a guy even half of what Watson is, we could be pretty good next.
Defense, well, I think we are far off from where we need to be considering the depth issues and lack of LBers.
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We are going to have to spend the entire offseason explaining to Tenn. fans that they did not, in fact, win the national championship just because another SEC team did
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I'm with the poster above (VT_Fencer)... It is very difficult to imagine VT getting to this game any time soon and even more difficult to imagine them winning this game. Alabama was playing true freshmen (not all night) on the D line and still getting pressure on Watson. Both teams are not only talented but DEEP.
I can see us getting much better and much more talented, but to make it to the final four and then play in the National Championship game will take talent and depth.
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I think the introduction of the playoff makes the need for quality depth even greater. Now you have to win 14 or 15 games to win a NC. It's hard to play that many games against quality competition without suffering key injuries or just plain wearing down.
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The way I saw it apart from a couple busted coverages.... Special Teams,they'll get after ya, But seriously though hats off to a great Clemson team that for the most part played their hearts out to the end and way to go Kiffin it couldn't have happened to a shitttier shitwad.
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I can't decide whats worse.... Alabama winning another national championship again or listening/watching their fans during a Alabama game? I bet less than 1% of their fan base has any affiliation to the school.
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Well, seeing their fans is only a 4 hour deal (because, face it, ESPN and CBS stretch the games out for all they're worth). And occasionally, they lose, and sad Alabama fans are just oh so fun to watch.
Alabama winning the natty? That's all we'll freaking hear about until the next one.
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The worst part is that my primary customer is a huge Clemson fan and was actually at the game tonight. He's going to be in such a bad mood when he gets back. Ugh.
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See kick never touched the ground. He kicked it straight up so Clemson dude should have fair caught it/ran over and waived his hand and tried to catch it???
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Honestly, this is getting old... Alabama winning the National Title game is like watching Duke or Kentucky when the NCAA Basketball Championships... It happens so often it doesn't really mean much other then another notch on the old belt. They will get another great recruiting class, Nick Saban won't touch the NFL cause he can't deal with adversity, and Lane effing Kiffin gets to sit under a great program and get rings. I'm to drunk for this, I'm out! I miss football already...
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All good things... At points in time over the past 20 years we also thought FSU, Miami, Southern Cal, and Florida were untouchable. This dynasty will end soon enough and another will take it's place. I just hope VT is in a position to do so when the opportunity presents itself.
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Yes but this dynasty seems a lot more entrenched. To cross sports lines this takes me back to the 90's Bulls teams. 6 championships and you knew the only thing that was going to make it stop was the fact Jordan would get old. Until Nick Saban says he's out I'm thinking Alabama's gonna be in the conversation year after year and this dynasty rolls on. And that sucks arse IMO.
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Man, I didn't see what Dabo said at the end or any press conference cause I'm bored with Alabama but Beamer would have been perfect for this loss. "A play here or a play there and it's a different ball game. Special teams, they'll get after ya."
Clemson had at least two touchdowns that they could have had that they didn't. They did get screwed by the clock issue at the end of the half though. I don't think Bama gets out of the national championship talk until Saban retires. But if you can get Henry running left to right you have a chance to win. All of Bama's big pass plays were on mistakes by Clemson and one lucky toss it up and see. They have no big vertical threat like they used to. And if Henry isn't planting and going you have a chance. He looks bad running left to right, straight ahead is another story.
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All of Bama's big pass plays were on mistakes by Clemson and one lucky toss it up and see.
The game reminded me of our matchups against Ohio State a bit. In both of those games, VT needed to be playing at 100% and then some. We were able to do that in 2014, but not in 2015.
Clemson played as hard as they could, but Alabama was just able to outlast them (as they usually do) and take advantage of those slip ups.
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I think turnovers were the difference in this game. That pick Watson threw early might have been a 14 point swing. I think the game is played differently and ends differently if Clemson drives down and scores to make it 17-7 or 21-7 instead of setting Bama up with great field position to tie the game at 14.
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Worst thing about that INT it was a blown coverage by Bama two players covers the same route leaving a mostly open (not wide open) Clemson player and Watson didn't see him.
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It looked like to me the Bama player that intercepted the ball left his player because he was watching Watson's eyes and he undercut the throw. I thought it was a good play by Bama's DB.
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How is that any different than what would have happened if Clemson had won? They would have talked about Clemson for today and tomorrow, and then would have spent the offseason talking about how Alabama played awful, blew it, and what they can do to get over the hump next year.
All in all, I'm happy Bama won, as sick as that sounds. For starters, it keeps the status quo in the Commonwealth and surrounding states in terms of recruiting. Bama was already getting our talent, Clemson was always doing well but overshadowed. This doesn't really change that. Had Clemson won, you would have seen them funnel all talent from the region for a year or two and that would have hurt us, so in the end, this isn't a really bad thing. They'll take a step back when Watson goes pro, at which time we very well could be ready to make our move to fill the void. Plus, there are a couple overly cocky and braggadocios Clemson fans in my circle of friends, so seeing them gutted on Facebook last night was more than enjoyable after some of the shit they've said about VT lately.
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I agree with all points, I think it all boils down to me just not really like ESPN anymore other then them having the contract for ACC and seeing Tech everything.
Recruiting dead on, hard to keep someone in state that has Alabama knocking at your door. If you go there right now you're mostly going to win a NC.
I just really hate Saban...
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Plus, there are a couple overly cocky and braggadocios Clemson fans in my circle of friends, so seeing them gutted on Facebook last night was more than enjoyable after some of the shit they've said about VT lately.
I live in upstate SC and this is so true. I don't think the Clemson sympathizers on here would feel the same way if they had seen the outlandish 20+ point win predictions and complete lack of respect they give any other program (including Bama.) They look down their nose at us like they have been better than us for the last 20 years. I felt somewhat bad for a few close friends of mine who aren't ridiculous, but dammit that fanbase is awful to deal with.
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I saw someone post this on twitter but can't remember who to embed.
"Alabama is the new Jimmie Johnson" I couldn't agree more. I am so bored
with them. So bored I fell asleep at half time.
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I thought this was a really fitting NC. The game was back and forth with a whole bunch of emerging storylines, like:
- Walk on Clemson WR can't be covered by 5-star Alabama CB
- Unheralded Clemson DE runs over, around, and through Alabama RT
- Both Heisman candidates/winner had great games, lived up to billing
- Clemson doesn't know what a TE is, probably thought he was a QB
- On a related note, Alabama TE has game of his life on the biggest possible stage
- Clemson special teams has flashbacks to Macho Harris, blows two critical plays
- Game goes down to the wire
- Kiffin gets left by buses
All in all I really enjoyed this game and would like to see more like it. My personal opinion is that the two best teams made it to the championship game and played a helluva game. Would have liked to have seen a Clemson victory, but all in all it was a great end to the season.
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Around Christmas time ESPNU spent a full 30 minutes on Clemson's kick-off coverage and returns, pointing out weaknesses and going on about how some special teams error may be the deciding factor. My Dad and I couldn't believe how desperate ESPN must be for football coverage to devote a full 30 minute segment to analyzing kickoff film. And what do you know? The championship game is decided by two kickoffs. Crazy.
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Comments
I want Clemson but I think Bama by 3.
I didnt really care who won this game before it started really, but now 4:40 left in the game, Im pulling hard for Clemson.
Alabama is putting a very sour taste in my mouth and I just like the grit Clemson is showing.
Either way, this has to be one of the best football games Ive watched in a while
Lawson needs to stop lining up offsides. Clemson definitely can't afford to be giving away free yardage all night.
JET SWEEP!!
I'M REALLY GLAD LOEFFLER LEFT SO WE WON'T SEE THAT ANYMORE!!!!
Wait, what?
That was a good first defensive stand from Clemson. I really want Clemson to win, but I don't see it happening... Never say never though.
Clemson needs to test Bama vertically. The Tide has played literally 1 team with a downfield passing attack (Ole Miss) and lost
Well Crap
Watson has "Fuller 4" on his shoulder patch. The luck should kick in soon.
Think it just kicked in. Go Fullers!!!
Called it. In a Miss Cleo sort of way.
SOB!
Looked like a horrible attempt at a tackle
Alabama's RT and RG are destroying the right side of the line of scrimmage.
that was sweet
There it is. Go at this secondary
Clemson already doing better than Michigan state at least
And all these coaches say
I'm pretty Slye for a leg guy
Mmm...wide right
Both kickers have made Hughes tackles, though
This is exciting as all get-out. Both teams look like they can (and have) score at any time, and both defenses look capable of stuffing any given play or making a big one themselves. We've also seen a couple returns come that close to breaking for a TD. Anyone can score from anywhere at any time. Me gusta.
Yeah I also find that close, competitive games are way more fun to watch when my team isn't playing in one.
Ok someone with a rule book or better Google fu than me see if you can answer this. When the offense subs the official stands over the ball to give the defense a chance to sub, what keeps the defense from just taking their sweet time and letting the play clock run down?
They only get about 10 seconds or so. Basically the center judge (I think I've seen the umpire do it occasionally) gives what he judges to be a reasonable amount of time for the defense to substitute. If they're lagging intentionally, he'll step off the ball and let the offense go after a few seconds.
Come on Clemson!!
Renfrow is tearing it up.
His diving catches are reminding me of Danny coale
FIFY
I think thats why I started rooting for Clemson,
and also the Nick Saban - Dabo Sweeney dynamic kind of reminds me of this.
vs
and your not, not gonna root for coach Bombay.
Just reading a story on him, kid was 2 time Myrtle Beach player of the year.
If your' re not watching on espn2, you're doing it wrong. I do wish they would flip the PIP so the live game was bigger.
ESPN Classic is pretty good too.
What's on over there? I don't think I get that channel.
It's just mics around the stadium, you get the announcer and crowd noise that's it.
Wow, thank you!
I usually record the film room since it's hard to see sometimes. Watch it later.
Clemson's Defense is scary good this year. They've had a few big breakout plays against them, but for the most part they are bulletproof.
And they're all young ;_;
Entertaining game so far. I would love to see Clemson just slam their foot on the gas right now
Watson future Cowboy QB?
That gif always gets a leg.
One of the only offensive highlights in that game...
acc and sec coaches breaking down game on espn 2. Pitts Narduzi and others
Both of the teams are just dripping with talent. It would be nice to see VT close the gap some in the talent department
Especially considering the number of recruits on both teams that we were finalists for.
You gotta Hand it to them though... They ended up doing alright for themselves.
That one hurt hearing the named called out on TV...
Damn!
Clemson players dropping like flies...
I would never wish injury on a player in the Championship game. Hate it for Mackenzie, great player.
Game clock snafu screws Clemson there. Should have had at least 1 more play
Wait, you're telling me the PAC-12 refs screwed something up on a big stage? Unthinkable!
New day, same Pac12 refs
Session Ale agrees and caused me to curse the boob tube.
Did urban cryer just say that?
Busted Coverage, it'll get after ya.
Boy, Clemson sure came out of the second half like a bunch of chumps. Asleep on O and D.
Notice how the Bama DB played the WRs hands, and didn't look back for the ball, just thought I'd point that out for the "why don't our DBs look for the ball? everyone else does" crowd
I've compiled every PI call against us from this year. I'm debating about publishing the video. You'd be amazed how many are "he didn't turn his head" calls. The risk/reward might not be worth it, but I don't know how to figure out that stat.
That last 3rd down play was perfect execution of the DB watching the receiver's hands instead of trying to watch the ball/make a pick.
**Edit: Matthona beat me by a few seconds. I'm glad someone else saw that too.
Anyone else think that end-zone play should have been PI on Bama?
HopperHarrison draped his arm over both Scotts arms and clearly wasn't going for the ball.Maybe in slow motion. At full speed, it looked like his arm got there right as the ball did. Pass interference or not, that is usually not going to get called.
That last end zone shot look like defensive PI to anyone else?
I don't even want to think about what Watson would have done against our defense this year. Just making play after play with his legs
Based off of what ECU's backup and UVA's statue of a QB did to us this season, Watson would have probably set NCAA QB rushing records against us.
Or would have been bottled up and just passed like he hasn't before 700 yds passing 9 TD's.
Expected Clemson to roll out Watson with run/pass options, seems like it would be impossible to stop
"After review, the runner was stopped short of the goal line."
- Pac-12 officials, probably
What a game!!!
Making up for the end of the bowl season.
Man, I'm gonna have to stay up and watch this thing. I hope Clemson can go up by 10 here and get Bama on their heels.
Nah, and Watson may have just gotten himself hurt too. Looked a little gimpy getting off the field there.
It's the 15th game of the season for these guys. They're all getting hurt.
But Clemson's D is keeping this a game.
Nevermind.
Man, you're one heck of a kiss of death.
The Vols are a really talented team and will prevail in Bristol and go on to win the SEC.
Whose idea was it to have national championships on Mondays? I have to wake up at 5:30 for fieldwork but there's no way I can miss the last quarter of this game. Come on, Clemson, you have this...
I'm right there with you. Wake up at 5
Same. At this point, I am a big fan of all running plays.
I assume they didn't want to go against the NFL playoffs on Saturday, but there has to be a better time to play a football game
Well for two weeks in early January the NFL has the national stage on Saturday and Sunday.
**Edit: Matthona beat me again.
It's really funny watching the stands as a field goal is kicked, as precisely half of the fans go crazy.
Looked to be clearly offisides there
It was time to collect on that ACCCG call.
Clemson just lost. How do you forget to cover a guy that hasn't caught a TD since 2013 twice?
Clemson getting yards in chunks.
[REDACTED]
It looks as if all three units for Alabama are now exploiting weaknesses they saw in the first half. That's excellent coaching.
I have a question about that onside kick.
The kicker's plant foot was clearly in front of the ball before he kicked it. Isn't that an offsides?
Nah, the kicker can do pretty much whatever he wants so long as he actually kicks the ball. At least that's how it's always been called.
I noticed that too. I think you're right, but I've seen other kickers do the same thing in the past without anything being called.
I don't know for sure, but it is probably one of those exceptions, like the one that lets holders posess the ball with their knee down.
I thought the guy who ended up catching the ball might have been offsides.
It's about time for Clemson to Clemson this
And there we have it
And there we have it...again
Wow, Watson darn near threw the game away there.
The kicker for Bama was offsides. There was no chance the zebras were going to actually catch that there though. He overran the ball by half a yard and then kicked
That's game.
Welp. That put it away
Welp
Well, our 2013 team knows what that one feels like... Twice
cant count on klempsun to do shit
That sealed it. I'm going to turn my TV and go to bed. If Clemson somehow makes a miraculous comeback I will never forgive myself.
He didn't even really hit a hole he just outran all the angles. Wow.
One was a kicker but even the kicker took a decent angle.
Did anyone else think the he lost control of the ball during the dive, and before he crossed the pylon? It sure seemed like it once they slowed it down. Obviously it wasn't looked at because their name starts with A and ends with labama.
I HATE BAMA
Celmson after that last TD:
Gallman is insanely athletic. This game isn't over.
Clemson's D vs. Henry will probably decide if you're right.
Good call.
This Gallman kid brought his own guts tonight
Guess we can all go to bed soon.
cant contain a rarely used TE you don't deserve a championship
That's a fast TE.
Wonder how he would do at QB.
He looks even faster when nobody covers him.
Well, if he's rarely used you probably didn't game plan for him.
Howard hasn't done crap all year and tonight has torn them up.
OK, I've cooled off now.
Thanks for the correction, GuitarMan.
I'll concede the incorrect use of the term "Clemsoning".
I still think Clemson should have won this game. They clearly have the talent, and if not for a handful of really costly plays, they'd have had it.
They should have had this game, mistakes not better plays have lost this.
I have no idea why anyone thinks this term is applicable tonight. It doesn't mean to lose. It means an absolutely inexplicable loss after elevated expectations; dropping one to an inferior team or getting absolutely pantsed. The fact that this is a one-possession game into the last 1:30 in the #1 vs. #2 National Championship game makes this term absolutely inapplicable.
I always took it to mean losing a game you should win by making mistakes.
That's not what it means. It's getting badly overused everywhere tonight.
Fine.
You are way off. "Really should have won" based off of what criteria?
Honestly, if the refs don't screw up that no call on the offside on side kick, they maybe win.
You clearly don't.
That's the way any game is lost when two excellent teams play. A few small mistakes make the difference. But it's not as if Clemson went out and made a bunch of bone-headed plays, turnovers, penalties, etc. Lost a guy in coverage a couple times and missed one or two critical tackles. If that's enough for people to use a derisive term reserved for idiotic losses, then truly it's lost all meaning. This was a hell of an entertaining football game. If anyone "Clemsoned" this playoff season, it was Michigan State. What an ugly egg they laid.
Normally, I'd say that you can't really Clemson anything if this was the Natty Title game, but man... Clemson fans have to feel gutted today. They outplayed Alabama in almost every possible way and it still wasn't enough because of their inability to stop the big play (or cover the TE). Their offense could score at will, their defense played a decent game, but their Special Teams gave up 2 awful breakdowns, and that was the difference.
I mean, I definitely agree that Michigan State choked the biggest in the playoff (if you even consider that a choke, as you have to be present to choke), but I also think that Clemson did end up Clemsoning it a bit. I mean, they outplayed them, and yet crumbled at the worst times leading to the loss. Its like the 2012 Sugar Bowl for us that is so hard to get over because we knew we were the better team. Was it lose to Wake Forest bad, no... but they had to collapse pretty heavily the way they were playing and the way Bama was playing to lose, and that's exactly what happened.
I disagree that Clemson outplayed Bama. I think they were very evenly matched and Clemson had a few critical busts. I think that's just the way that games turn when two similarly skilled teams play each other (that can be two equally good or two equally bad teams); the ones that make the fewest mistakes win.
Feeling gutted is one thing. Feeling confident that they'd win only to get the doors blown off would have been Clemsoning. That's what has always defined that term - getting beaten in an inexplicable manner and/or getting beaten by a clearly inferior opponent. This game checks neither box for me.
I'm gonna disagree with this. Alabama consistently made big plays when they had to and Clemson made a lot of them but made less. They also didn't play well on defense and consistently gave up big plays. I do not think Clemson outplayed Alabama by any stretch. Deshaun Watson was incredible but half their offense was him buying time and scrambling when plays broke down. Alabama won the scheme battle. Clemson had more first downs, but thats looming as somewhat of a ghost stat given that they didn't always turn those into points.
Also comparing it to the 2012 Sugar Bowl is a little ridiculous because we held Michigan to like 188 yards and gave up a few really strange plays. Much different than giving up almost 500 yards. Plus the game really wasn't as close as the final score, Alabama put it away late and they scored late on prevent to drain clock. I know that "technically" they would have had a shot if they had the onside kick but the game ended with Alabama playing better in the 4th qtr.
Two of Bamas TD's were not because of better schemes or better players just a wide open TE. I don't see where Bama was playing so well. Henry was bottled up most of the game, Coker was getting sacked a lot.
Wide open players are often a product of scheme.
Not because of scheme?? TJ Green may or may not have busted that coverage on the second one, but either way the seam was open it was the right play and it was attacked beautifully. If it was an inverted cover 2 or the like then it wasn't TJ Green's responsibility to play deep coverage, if he was supposed to be there, the threat of the run kept him from back up into his zone. Either way, good call by Bama.
The first one is a little more perplexing. If that was a fake screen planned play, then hell of a design. If it was just OJ Howard making a quick read and he and Coker being on the same page, that's the same kind of improvising and chemistry that people were praising Deshaun for all game.
Henry had almost 160 yards rushing...
Coker did get sacked a lot and they were mostly coverage sacks or bonehead staying in a deep drop against great ends instead of stepping up in the pocket. If they lost I would have likely cited Deshaun's avoiding sacks and Coker's inability to as one of the biggest differences.
They also played really well in the third quarter where they had horrible field position for several straight drives and managed to keep Clemson from putting them away like they had many opponents in similar situations.
Seems to me like you just hate Bama and are looking for reasons to think they didn't play well. They completely shut down Gallman on the ground (and shut down period until a few late receptions against conservative zones) and forced Deshaun to make all the plays with his arm and legs, he just happened to step up to the plate in that regard.
The breaking point for the game was when Saban decided to onside kick with a tied score. I don't think anyone would have expected that out of him at that point.
Can't really blame Clemson for missing that one.
How can you not blame them? They were lined up too tight, if a Clemson player had been anywhere near that ball he could have waived for a fair catch and there was nothing Bama could have done to stop Clemson from getting the ball.
a.) Who was expecting the onside there?
b.) Are we really thinking that in the heat of the moment, a college player would have thought about that?
c.) Even if they did call for fair catch, there's still a chance that they drop the ball and Bama recovers.
It's not about expecting the onside, Clemson players lined up too tight to get a jump on forming the "wall", Bama staff saw it and exploited it.
Clemsoning means beating FSU and then losing to Wake Forest.
I wouldn't say that, this has been a good close game the whole way. I'm not saying Clemson hasn't made mistakes, but losing to a touchdown favorite Bama team in the national championship isn't exactly a choke job.
Unless you look at the plays they actually lost on.
This wasn't a choke job, but they would have won this without some completely blown plays.
Most teams lose based on the plays they don't make. I don't know why you insist on forcing the point that Clemson underachieved or choked. They played very well, but not well enough. That sucks for Clemson fans and Bama haters, but that doesn't take away from all the things Clemson did well tonight. They could have won, but they didn't because of a few errors. That's what I expect from a national championship. A close fought game won by the team the best exploits the other team's mistakes.
It's called football.
They
couldshould have won.FIFY
I don't disagree with that, but I don't consider what happened tonight a choke or "clemsoning". They lost to a favored team and it was close until the end. They made more mistakes and that's why they lost, but you could say that about pretty much any close game between two fairly equal teams.
Edit: I took another look at your previous post, and I think we are fundamentally in agreement. They lost because they made more mistakes. That's indisputably true, I think we just disagree in that I don't consider that "choking". To me a choke implies a favored team losing to an inferior opponent. I don't think that's what happened tonight.
It's all good. Just disappointing, I guess.
Can't argue with that one bit. I never want good things for Alabama.
People disagreeing with you does not equal a lack of discussion.
No, but piling on and negative voting do.
EDIT: OK, I was a bit annoyed, but I edited my post above. Seriously, I did have a point to make, but it got lost in translation.
FWIW, I agree that you shouldn't downvote someone because you disagree with their opinion.
lol wut?
Clemsoning
Yes, I know it urban dictionary, but the definitions fit the word pretty well, and you clearly don't know what it means. Clemson came up short, didn't play a perfect game, but they weren't even favored and played toe to toe with one of the greatest dynasty teams (4 titles in 7 years)... I'd say they didn't pull "clemsoning"
Nobody "clemsoned" anything if you're playing in the title game.
There were a few mistakes, and just a few mistakes are very costly when the other side is mostly 1st to 3rd round NFL picks.
Great coaching, Saban. Let me race you in my Ferrari vs your Geo Prism and see who wins.
Except all those future NFL players didn't outmuscle or out hustle Clemson for the most part. Clemson players of coaches screwed up four times to give Bama the win. Take out even one of those wide open TE TD's and he game is different. I think this game showed Bama is beatable with the right scheme and the right players. Clemson had the right players just not the best scheme and execution.
Clemson actually had the superior scheme as well. It worked 95% of the time. But when if failed, it failed big.
The worst part about Alabama winning is that I'm not going to be able to watch SportsCenter for a month. Can't deal with the Alabama love fest.
I havnt watched SportsCenter in about 4 years. You should be fine
Well if you're not watching it why would anyone else?
(I usually just turn it on to fall asleep to)
I meant that it has been pretty unbearable for awhile now
I agree... Helps me fall asleep haha. Just wanted to give you a hard time.
Thats why the only sports channel I watch is the NHL network (with the exception of ESPN, NBC, etc. if there is a game I want to watch).
I feel two things:
Just getting to this game feels impossible, even though we've been there before. Winning it? That looks even further beyond what's possible.
Sorry, I get all mopey late at night.
How did those refs not see #10 get held? They could see Henry make it in between 18 guys, but they miss the o lineman holding ten out in the open...
Pac-12 refs.
I. Just. Hate. Bama.
Plus, I'm tired of hearing them say what a genius Kiffin is.
"Man, this guy has done really well with more talent than anyone else."
Yeah, there's a limit to how impressed I can be with Kiffin.
I think his record as a head coach speaks for itself.
Edit: and thanks for the bowl win, Lane!
Another play by Jonathan Allen...Dshawn Hand...Dammit!
I have to say, I hate that Bama is going to win another freakin' NC, but I am glad that it was at least a good game. I hate it when a super hyped game like the NC or super bowl is a boring blowout or 6-3 snooze fest. Taking all personal rooting interest out of it, this was a really entertaining game.
Welp, I guess VT will have to be the first 15-0 FBS team ever.
If Clemson can get some better DBs...their defense is going to be scary good.
It didn't help that they lost their lockdown corner in the first half..
They have a better DB. He aggrevated a hamstring injury in the first half. Sadly I think it would have made an enormous difference.
I think the injury to their starter in the 1st half really hurt them, it was right after that they missed their assignment and let the TE sneak behind for two TD's.
Clemsons a really good team though, Id imagine theyll be the favorite for the ACC next year...
...to the experts, to the ones in the know, VTs the darkhorse favorite to win it all.
Man, watching this game makes you realize just how far off we are from a Natty. Those guys looked like men out there. Just absurd. I just hope we get there soon.
What's scarier is how far off Michigan State and Oklahoma were from a Natty. These two teams tonight were just on a whole different level exponentially from everyone else.
Thinking the same thing. Hats off to both these they were crazy good.
I honestly think if OSU had faced Bama instead of Michigan St, we would have had a Clemson-OSU championship tonight. They didn't always play like it, but I think OSU is still one of the deepest and most talented teams in the country. Shame they couldn't hold off the Spartans and get a shot at the playoffs again, because I think they would have beaten Bama soundly.
Bull
Fuente has been our coach for 7 days and we are already taking about how far away we are? No. I saw what he was capable of at Memphis with a team with far less talent than our own. Get LB help for Bud and our defense is fine. We have the talent to be good on offense and the coaches to bring it out of them.
In fact, we could be closer right now as a program to legitimately getting and staying at that level than we have been since 1999. Shit, if UNC is capable, so are we.
I think its more of an assessment of how talented those two teams were last night over our inefficiencies or lack of talent, at least thats how I took it.
I mean, watching that game, those two teams were clearly the best two teams in college football, that was such a good game.
What? Why are you bringing Fuente into this? He has nothing to do with the talent we have on campus. Face it, we are far off from competing with the big boys right now. Once upon a time, we were there, now? No, we have a lot of work to do, and I'll support us 100% of the way.
That sound you just heard was the point sailing far over your head
No...talent wins chips these days. We don't have it yet and even with a good backer I don't believe we will field a defense that is at that level. When I look at the mammoths that played yesterday at seemingly every position, it shows how talent rules.
I disagree... Offensively, we are pretty stacked right now, especially at the skill positions.
I mean, you can disagree I guess, but it isn't really a debatable matter. Looking at the teams that have Natties in the last 20 years, almost all have had top 10 or better recruiting classes. Obviously good coaching is important as was seen in the game last night, but top programs many times have a good coach and good recruiting.
I hope Fuente will bring all that to VT, but obviously it is too early to know if he will be a success here.
I think offensively we are OK. Ford is great. But besides Cam we have no depth. You need that to win. I like Travon as well and think he could be a RB on a championship team. OLine is where we need improvement to make all the other positions better. QB is big though, it can make or break a team, especially when they are deficient in talent else where. I we start a guy even half of what Watson is, we could be pretty good next.
Defense, well, I think we are far off from where we need to be considering the depth issues and lack of LBers.
You know what the worst part of this result is?
We are going to have to spend the entire offseason explaining to Tenn. fans that they did not, in fact, win the national championship just because another SEC team did
LOL, you clearly interact with Tenn fans on a regular basis.
Wrong reply
True/non-casual fans dont care about conference pride. I would have been fine with a 1-9 record for the SEC in bowl games.
My hatred list:
1) LOLUVA
2) Matt Ryan
3) Alabama
Gotta throw wvu and Da U in there, too, for it to be complete.
Dammit! I didn't see it before the game, and just saw it on Facebook now.
Corso put a tiger head on.
That's what happened....dammit!
I'm with the poster above (VT_Fencer)... It is very difficult to imagine VT getting to this game any time soon and even more difficult to imagine them winning this game. Alabama was playing true freshmen (not all night) on the D line and still getting pressure on Watson. Both teams are not only talented but DEEP.
I can see us getting much better and much more talented, but to make it to the final four and then play in the National Championship game will take talent and depth.
I think the introduction of the playoff makes the need for quality depth even greater. Now you have to win 14 or 15 games to win a NC. It's hard to play that many games against quality competition without suffering key injuries or just plain wearing down.
The way I saw it apart from a couple busted coverages.... Special Teams,they'll get after ya, But seriously though hats off to a great Clemson team that for the most part played their hearts out to the end and way to go Kiffin it couldn't have happened to a shitttier shitwad.
I can't decide whats worse.... Alabama winning another national championship again or listening/watching their fans during a Alabama game? I bet less than 1% of their fan base has any affiliation to the school.
Well, seeing their fans is only a 4 hour deal (because, face it, ESPN and CBS stretch the games out for all they're worth). And occasionally, they lose, and sad Alabama fans are just oh so fun to watch.
Alabama winning the natty? That's all we'll freaking hear about until the next one.
The worst part is that my primary customer is a huge Clemson fan and was actually at the game tonight. He's going to be in such a bad mood when he gets back. Ugh.
Agreed. I hate those homers too.
Soo this onside kick stuff. Joey Slye is on Twitter saying ball has to touch the ground AND go 10 yards.
Or is that an acceptable pooch kick that's Clemson just shit the bed on.
I think they could of called fair catch on that if it didn't hit the ground.
The kicker bounces it so the kicking team doesn't get called for kick-catch interference when the receiving team attempts to recover.
See kick never touched the ground. He kicked it straight up so Clemson dude should have fair caught it/ran over and waived his hand and tried to catch it???
They could have done that if any Clemson player was even near it. Their spacing was terrible.
Honestly, this is getting old... Alabama winning the National Title game is like watching Duke or Kentucky when the NCAA Basketball Championships... It happens so often it doesn't really mean much other then another notch on the old belt. They will get another great recruiting class, Nick Saban won't touch the NFL cause he can't deal with adversity, and Lane effing Kiffin gets to sit under a great program and get rings. I'm to drunk for this, I'm out! I miss football already...
Duke and Alabama are both reigning champions at the same time for the second time in the past 6 years..
A good portion of Bama football fans are Duke basketball fans too.
And Yankees baseball fans.
Mfw watching the Dark Lord win ANOTHER championship
If you're Alabama, you're like:
Sigh, of course I I gave you a leg.
I don't like it, but damn I if I don't respect the Hell out of saban.
He's LITERALLY college football's Bill B.
"Dark Lord" was an apt description.
Pretty sure he sacrificed a small child at the beginning of the 4th
In a related note, Alabama is considering replacing their fight song with the Star Wars Imperial March. Darth Saban approves.
Meh
All good things... At points in time over the past 20 years we also thought FSU, Miami, Southern Cal, and Florida were untouchable. This dynasty will end soon enough and another will take it's place. I just hope VT is in a position to do so when the opportunity presents itself.
Fingers crossed, because growing up a cowboys (after 95), Orlando magic, and Hokies fan has never been easy.
Yes but this dynasty seems a lot more entrenched. To cross sports lines this takes me back to the 90's Bulls teams. 6 championships and you knew the only thing that was going to make it stop was the fact Jordan would get old. Until Nick Saban says he's out I'm thinking Alabama's gonna be in the conversation year after year and this dynasty rolls on. And that sucks arse IMO.
People said the same about Meyer and Carroll and those blew up from the inside.
Sorry, spoiler alert
I think the next dynasty will be wherever Herman ends up
Man, I didn't see what Dabo said at the end or any press conference cause I'm bored with Alabama but Beamer would have been perfect for this loss. "A play here or a play there and it's a different ball game. Special teams, they'll get after ya."
Clemson had at least two touchdowns that they could have had that they didn't. They did get screwed by the clock issue at the end of the half though. I don't think Bama gets out of the national championship talk until Saban retires. But if you can get Henry running left to right you have a chance to win. All of Bama's big pass plays were on mistakes by Clemson and one lucky toss it up and see. They have no big vertical threat like they used to. And if Henry isn't planting and going you have a chance. He looks bad running left to right, straight ahead is another story.
The game reminded me of our matchups against Ohio State a bit. In both of those games, VT needed to be playing at 100% and then some. We were able to do that in 2014, but not in 2015.
Clemson played as hard as they could, but Alabama was just able to outlast them (as they usually do) and take advantage of those slip ups.
http://thecomeback.com/blog/ncaa/the-alabama-buses-left-without-lane-kif...
The Bama buses left Kiffin behind at the stadium and ESPN has video of it happening.
That's the most Lane Kiffin thing ever. Kiffining???
Kiffin is sad
Congrats to Bama for winning the natty champ. Loved that Clemson scared you so bad you pulled a Boise State on that (off)onside kick.
I think turnovers were the difference in this game. That pick Watson threw early might have been a 14 point swing. I think the game is played differently and ends differently if Clemson drives down and scores to make it 17-7 or 21-7 instead of setting Bama up with great field position to tie the game at 14.
Worst thing about that INT it was a blown coverage by Bama two players covers the same route leaving a mostly open (not wide open) Clemson player and Watson didn't see him.
It looked like to me the Bama player that intercepted the ball left his player because he was watching Watson's eyes and he undercut the throw. I thought it was a good play by Bama's DB.
Well looks like I won't be watching sportcenter for the next 3 months, which is fine by me!
Foxsports actually reminds me of sportcenter I grew up to without the SEC everything.
How is that any different than what would have happened if Clemson had won? They would have talked about Clemson for today and tomorrow, and then would have spent the offseason talking about how Alabama played awful, blew it, and what they can do to get over the hump next year.
All in all, I'm happy Bama won, as sick as that sounds. For starters, it keeps the status quo in the Commonwealth and surrounding states in terms of recruiting. Bama was already getting our talent, Clemson was always doing well but overshadowed. This doesn't really change that. Had Clemson won, you would have seen them funnel all talent from the region for a year or two and that would have hurt us, so in the end, this isn't a really bad thing. They'll take a step back when Watson goes pro, at which time we very well could be ready to make our move to fill the void. Plus, there are a couple overly cocky and braggadocios Clemson fans in my circle of friends, so seeing them gutted on Facebook last night was more than enjoyable after some of the shit they've said about VT lately.
I agree with all points, I think it all boils down to me just not really like ESPN anymore other then them having the contract for ACC and seeing Tech everything.
Recruiting dead on, hard to keep someone in state that has Alabama knocking at your door. If you go there right now you're mostly going to win a NC.
I just really hate Saban...
I live in upstate SC and this is so true. I don't think the Clemson sympathizers on here would feel the same way if they had seen the outlandish 20+ point win predictions and complete lack of respect they give any other program (including Bama.) They look down their nose at us like they have been better than us for the last 20 years. I felt somewhat bad for a few close friends of mine who aren't ridiculous, but dammit that fanbase is awful to deal with.
Alabama sucks.
Unfortunately, they clearly don't. It would be wonderful if they did, though!
I just Alabama to be average, but I would love to see Saban eat a bag of horse shit and suck it up for a couple of years.
I will give you that they are the best team in 2015....but they still suck. Don't like em, never will. Product on the field may be good, but that's it
I saw someone post this on twitter but can't remember who to embed.
"Alabama is the new Jimmie Johnson" I couldn't agree more. I am so bored
with them. So bored I fell asleep at half time.
I thought this was a really fitting NC. The game was back and forth with a whole bunch of emerging storylines, like:
- Walk on Clemson WR can't be covered by 5-star Alabama CB
- Unheralded Clemson DE runs over, around, and through Alabama RT
- Both Heisman candidates/winner had great games, lived up to billing
- Clemson doesn't know what a TE is, probably thought he was a QB
- On a related note, Alabama TE has game of his life on the biggest possible stage
- Clemson special teams has flashbacks to Macho Harris, blows two critical plays
- Game goes down to the wire
- Kiffin gets left by buses
All in all I really enjoyed this game and would like to see more like it. My personal opinion is that the two best teams made it to the championship game and played a helluva game. Would have liked to have seen a Clemson victory, but all in all it was a great end to the season.
I've met too many douche bag Clemson fans, so their loss does not bother me.
That being said Watson played his "nuts" off and has my utmost respect.
Around Christmas time ESPNU spent a full 30 minutes on Clemson's kick-off coverage and returns, pointing out weaknesses and going on about how some special teams error may be the deciding factor. My Dad and I couldn't believe how desperate ESPN must be for football coverage to devote a full 30 minute segment to analyzing kickoff film. And what do you know? The championship game is decided by two kickoffs. Crazy.
Clemson's Special Teams were ranked 126th out of 128th going into last night's game.
Surprised only ESPNU brought up their deficiencies there. We really should have expected ST to be their undoing looking back on it.