Tulsa Exposes Front Seven Weaknesses in Hokie Gap Fits

Film analysis of Virginia Tech's linebacker and backup defensive line play against Tulsa.

[Virginia Tech Athletics \ Dave Knachel]

All season Hokie fans lamented what they regarded as poor play at Bud Foster's primary teaching position: inside linebacker. Andrew Motuapuaka and Deon Clarke struggled mightily during stretches of the season, especially against Ohio State, East Carolina, and Duke.

Not surprisingly, each of those teams used variations of spread offenses that limited the Hokies' ability to outnumber the offense in the box. Let's remember the basic tenets of Foster's scheme.

  1. Fit each gap with a defender.
  2. Force or spill the runner to a free hitter coming from the back-side or the safety position.

Four and five wide receiver alignments make it incredibly difficult to keep safeties engaged as free hitters in run defense. Foster was able to get numbers in the box by playing incredibly aggressive seven- and eight-man front with his safeties in the box regularly against Ohio State in 2014.

Foster could run this risky scheme because he had three healthy, experienced, and talented corners in Kendall Fuller, Brandon Facyson, and Chuck Clark (along with excellent cover safeties in Kyshoen Jarrett and Detrick Bonner) that could play press man coverage while pressure up front lowered the chances of an accurate throw. Facyson was injured late in that game, and the scheme was exposed repeatedly the next week against East Carolina. In 2015, Foster was similarly hindered with a talent/experience gap at the rover and nickel positions coupled with injuries to Fuller and Facyson. By the time Duke rolled into Blacksburg, Foster had to supplement man coverage with safety help, negating any opportunity to gain a numerical advantage in the box. The Hokies were fortunate to not play any true spread offenses after Duke with the exception of North Carolina. Just to give the Hokies a chance to win at the end against the Tar Heels, the front-seven had to deliver their most physical performance of the season.

The Hokies' secondary was in tatters during the Independence Bowl. Brandon Facyson clearly wasn't at 100 percent and didn't start the game. Donovan Riley started at the rover position and broke his collarbone in the first quarter. Late in the game, Mook Reynolds regularly manned a centerfield safety spot (sometimes 20+ yards away from the line of scrimmage) while Chuck Clark was often found playing press coverage on the boundary. As result, the defensive front seven was left to manage the Tulsa running game without the benefit of an alley defender.

Losing the Battle in the Gap

Minus the free hitter, fitting gaps and then defenders winning a physical battle to make a play is critical to stopping the run. The concept is pretty simple. Let's analyze Tulsa's first touchdown, and look at the number of blockers, the number of gaps, and the number of defenders.

Tulsa has five blockers and two potential runners, against six Hokie defenders. This isn't ideal. However, if the edge defenders can contain the play, proper gap fits inside should prevent any kind of gaping hole. At this point, Foster has to hope that his vaunted d-line can win a battle against a blocker and make a tackle. "Go be a football player" is a phrase often uttered by Foster in press conferences when he describes how defenders must fit their gap and then get to the football. To maximize any advantage in speed and athleticism the Hokies' defensive front had against Tulsa, Foster utilized a cross stunt between Dadi Nicolas and Luther Maddy. This stunt was likely called due to a tendency for Tulsa to run an inside zone from this formation.

Despite the stunt, every gap is still accounted for. Tremaine Edmunds and Ken Ekanem contain in the C gaps. Corey Marshall penetrates through the right B gap. Motuapuaka fits the right A gap. Maddy slants left into the play-side B gap, while Nicolas is stunting right into the A gap where Tulsa's run is designed to go. Tulsa uses a pin and pull between the left guard and the center. The left guard pulls and turns up on Motuapuaka. The center blocks back on Maddy. Nicolas is stunting right into the path of the ball carrier with a huge speed advantage against a lumbering left tackle who likely expects Nicolas to shoot up the field through the B gap. Note safety Donovan Riley is outside the hash providing inside leverage coverage on the twin receivers to the top of the screen, and is in no position to help support the run.

Maddy and Nicolas went through the motions of the defensive scheme correctly. Unfortunately for the Hokies, they didn't win the physical battles one expects two players of their caliber to win at the point of attack. When Maddy feels pressure from the center blocking back, his responsibility is to resist the center and squeeze inside, narrowing the space between him and Motuapuaka by the trap. Maddy doesn't squeeze inside. He is perfectly content to continue up the field as the center inches him to the outside. This widens the A gap that Nicolas is responsible for as he stunts to the inside. The tackle can't scoop Nicolas, so instead he reaches and shoves Nicolas to the inside. Nicolas overruns the gap, and the Tulsa running back is off to the races. Here is a second angle.

My Twitter feed went nuts saying that Edmunds was aligned wrong. He wasn't. He had outside contain responsibility in the C gap. Others said Andrew Motuapuaka is out of position. In an ideal world, Motuapuaka would fit the A gap, knock the pulling guard on his tail, and make the tackle for a one-yard loss. Part of my offseason will be spent looking at former Hokie mike linebackers in similar situations.

Maddy and Nicolas do not make the play even though All-ACC players should win one-on-one battles against .500 American Athletic Conference guards. Tulsa wins this battle and scores an easy touchdown.

Backup Defensive Line and Specialty Bear Changes Momentum

After similar busts by Marshall and Motuapuaka lead to a 43-yard Zack Langer run on the second drive of the game, Foster changed his defensive line personnel grouping. Seth Dooley, Woody Baron, Nigel Williams, and Vinny Mihota entered the game and got a three-and-out highlighted by an in-game adjustment. When Tulsa utilized a tight end, Foster shifted Edmunds to a stand up edge alignment while Anthony Shegog moved to an inside linebacker spot. Often (but not always), the defensive line would shift into a Bear front. In this clip, the Hokies align in a Bear front. Tulsa pulls the left tackle and he leads up the inside.

The Hokies don't have a numerical advantage in the box. Instead, multiple players win physical battles once they fit their gap. Williams slants to the play side B gap. Unlike Maddy on the play above, Williams then turns and fights back to the inside to squeeze the tackle. Baron slants to the play-side A gap and jams it up. Seth Dooley and Edmunds crash into the back-side A and B gaps, respectively. Dooley beats the scoop block by the tight end and between him and Williams the back is jammed up. Edmunds comes in and cleans up the play.

On Tulsa's next drive, Foster stuck with the pairing of Williams and Baron inside along with Ekanem and Nicolas. That foursome got another three-and-out (highlighted by a Williams' sack caused by Ekanem's edge pressure). It isn't a stretch to say that the backup defensive line outperformed the starting group in the first half. Baron and Williams were winning battles at the point of attack. Mihota generated pressure by stunting into the B gap and bull rushing (just like against Virginia), and Seth Dooley played perhaps his best football of the season by being aggressive and getting up the field, rather than trying to read the play and catch blocks.

The success of the second group seemed to light a fire in the starting group, and they were more gap sound after those early drives. In the second half, the second group played a little less and Williams was replaced on several series by Steve Sobczak. Sobczak was sound; however Williams was so good early that I wonder if he may have been injured at some point. With Maddy and Marshall exhausting their eligibility, Nigel Williams is a critical impact player for the 2016 season. He was abysmal in fall camp and early this season as Sobczak and Baron passed him on the depth chart. Williams needs to deliver the type of impact plays seen over the last three games of 2015 on a consistent basis all season for the Hokies' defense to improve in 2016.

Evaluating Andrew Motuapuaka

Few players were subjected to more criticism this season by Hokie Nation than Andrew Motuapuaka. Motuapuaka struggled tackling in space and fitting against the run versus Ohio State and Furman before he sprained his MCL in the third quarter against the Paladins. He returned against Pitt, and his struggles continued ultimately culminating in a dreadful performance against Duke where the Blue Devils' tailbacks consistently blocked Motuapuaka. Motuapuaka improved his level of play down the stretch, giving me hope that he could at least be a serviceable player until Carson Lydon is ready to ascend into a starting role.

On this play, Tulsa runs an off tackle power play to their right side. The right tackle and guard block down, and the H-Back and left guard pull and lead up around the right side. The left side of the Virginia Tech defensive line keys the inside step of the linemen and slants inside. Motuapuaka and Shegog key the running back and flow to their left. Motuapuaka has the responsibility of forcing the play to Shegog, who is coming from the inside.

Motuapuaka doesn't get credit for a tackle, however he executes his technique with gold star precision. He gets to the spot and takes on the pulling H-Back with his inside shoulder. This forces the back to cut back to the inside where Shegog cuts him down. This is Foster's gap scheme executed to perfection and it doesn't work unless Motuapuaka reads the key properly, beats the H-Back to the edge, and neutralizes the block with his inside shoulder without being driven inside.

Unfortunately, Motuapuaka just doesn't win enough physical battles when he is asked to neutralize a blocker and spill the runner to a free hitter. Chase Williams and Jack Tyler rarely won those physical battles. The difference was that they were much quicker at reading the play and often beat blockers to their assigned gaps. When Motuapuaka is slow in his read, he cheats by trying to hop around blockers instead of taking on blocks with the proper leverage. That tendency was heavily on display against Tulsa, especially when Tulsa ran inverted veer.

On this inverted veer, the Hokies have an excellent defense called. Edmunds is aligned wide and has edge force responsibility and the jet sweep on any kind of option. Nicolas crashes inside on the dive. Tulsa options Nicolas and goes to block Motuapuaka, who should take quarterback.

Motuapuaka doesn't have safety help to spill the ball to the outside. Nicolas is unblocked to the inside and the other front seven players should be flowing to the football. Motuapuaka should be a cannon ball getting downhill to attack the guard with his inside shoulder. Instead of executing his assignment, he sits down and tries to find the football. This allows the guard to pull around and seal Motuapuaka inside. Proper technique would have forced the quarterback to cut up to the inside where Nicolas is waiting unblocked. Instead, Nicolas can't cover the space and the quarterback falls forward for seven yards.

When Tulsa needed a critical 3rd-and-short, they picked on Motuapuaka with the inverted veer. Here is an example early in the fourth quarter where Tulsa faces a 3rd-and-3. The Hokies are in the Bear front with Mihota and Dooley in at defensive end. Shegog goes to sweep. Motuapuaka has an inside leverage responsibility to jam up the path of the quarterback and push him wide to Shegog. Motuapuaka beats the guard to the hole, but he inexplicably jumps back to the inside, essentially making the guard's block for him!

Fortunately for the Hokies on this play, Edmunds recognizes the running back doesn't have the football and recovers to drag the quarterback down from behind before he breaks into the secondary. The Hurricane get enough to move the chains, and against an offense like Tulsa's, failed opportunities to change possession are absolute killers.

Unlike backer, where a clear challenger to Edmunds isn't present, Motuapuaka has players nipping at his heals for playing time. Sean Huelskamp played a solid game against Purdue and seems to be trusted by Foster to execute the defensive scheme. Carson Lydon burned his redshirt as a true freshman. He is bigger and faster to the point of attack than Motuapuaka and looked the part in a brief cameo at the conclusion of the East Carolina game. I don't have access to watch practice, but logic would dictate Motuapuaka is the best mike linebacker in Foster's estimation. That said, I find it hard to believe that Lydon's upside wouldn't make him a prime candidate to pass Motuapuaka in the spring or next fall.

Evaluating Tremaine Edmunds

Freshman Tremaine Edmunds had an up-and-down performance in his second career start (his first against a pass-first multiple offense; other start was Georgia Tech). When he aligned as an edge player, he played rangy, instinctive, comfortable, and delivered several big hits. When he aligned in Tech's base backer alignment, Edmunds looked tentative and was often very slow to react to plays.

With 1:05 left in the first half and Tulsa at its own 36-yard-line, Tech's defense is in a coverage look. Motuapuaka is flexed out to play inside leverage against the slot receiver. Edmunds aligned as the only inside linebacker in the box. Tulsa opened the drive with a play similar to the one they scored on to begin the game. The center blocked back on Corey Marshall and the guard pulled and looped around to lead up on Edmunds.

As Maddy did earlier, Marshall didn't help matters by getting up field and opening up the A gap. Unlike Motuapuaka, Edmunds doesn't step up and meet the trapping OL in the hole. He should. If he is keying the running back, he should come straight ahead because the back doesn't take a counter step. If he is keying the offensive line, he should fill right behind the down block of the center. Either way, he should be flying up into the A gap and squeezing the pulling guard with his right shoulder. Instead, he is stationary and allows the guard to come to him and seal him to the inside. Because Edmunds doesn't fit the gap and Marshall runs up field, the space between Edmunds and Marshall grows enough that the back only has to bend slightly to his left to get into the secondary. Tulsa ultimately scored on the drive on a similar play where Motuapuaka and Edmunds both hesitated to fit the A gaps.

Edmunds was much more aggressive playing on the edge when Shegog aligned as a linebacker. He read jet sweeps and inverted veer well and pressured the quarterback. He has excellent length and downhill speed, even though he looks a bit awkward when moving laterally. I could have picked several plays where Tulsa ran to the edge and Edmunds used his range and speed to get a tackle for a loss. Instead, I looked at how he read option plays, especially an inside zone read. Tulsa runs an inside zone read, Edmunds is optioned and has dive responsibility.

Edmunds takes a proper angle to crash and doesn't bite on the QB fake. He tackles the back with his right shoulder to maintain proper outside leverage. This is excellent technique.

Even when aligned on the edge, Edmunds still made freshman mistakes that are certainly not surprising given the complexity of Foster's system and its requirement to instinctually execute the proper gap fit and force-spill techniques. On Tulsa's second touchdown, Edmunds likely has a force call because he doesn't have any outside help to spill the play to. Force means containing the back so the back can only cut back to the inside.

If Edmunds has force responsibility, the one thing he cannot let happen is the right tackle get his helmet outside of Edmunds' left shoulder. The moment it happens, Edmunds is blocked and the back can bounce outside for an easy touchdown. That is exactly what happens. Edmunds gets great extension off the snap to neutralize the right tackle. However, Edmunds starts to move inside to help with what looks like a dive. The right tackle gets leverage on Edmunds left shoulder, and the back glides to the outside for an easy score.

For better or for worse, Edmunds seems to be the guy at backer next season. He is the only player at that spot that fits the edge-rush skill set that Foster uses in the Bear, and the other options are players that have been passed by Edmunds on the depth chart this season (Jamieon Moss), moved to other positions (Ray Minor), or are incoming freshmen. Edmunds has the spring to get comfortable in traditional backer alignments and become more instinctual with key reads and fits. If he doesn't, the Hokies defensive struggles will likely continue next season. He has to be good.

Comments

Is our depth forecast that bad? Are we depending on a couple guys holding the defense together? With all the high expectations, this post is a drag. I guess we may be able to out score our opponents. I don't see championship without a lock down D.

foresthokie
US Navy Vet

I feel good about defensive line and corner. I have significant concerns about linebacker play and depth at safety.

Five star get after it 100 percent Juice Key-Playing. MAN

This sounds a bit like the general concerns we had going into the 2015 season.

"Exit light..."

I guess we may be able to out score our opponents.

I wouldn't count on this as early as next season. Be patient. Our offense isn't likely to improve by leaps and bounds in one off-season. I'm not expecting much improvement on that side of the ball. What I'll be looking for will be steady progress throughout the season. I expect us to go 2-2 OOC and 6-2 in the ACC. I think we'll struggle early and then have a really good November.

Onward and upward

After the last 4 years I would take 8-4 in the regular season and 6-2 in conference all day

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

I would too. And I think we can achieve that this year because our schedule is a joke. Outside of UT and ND we don't really play any scary teams. Miami has been a thorn in our side lately and they're going to get better under Richt, I'm just not sure how quickly. UNC could be another tough out but they're obviously beatable. We almost beat them this year. Other than that we have Liberty, ECU (with a new coach, because #reasons), GT, Duke, Pitt, Cuse, BC, and LOLUVA. Every one of those teams is flawed and we should be able to beat them with the talent we currently have on the roster.

I just don't think we can expect an offensive explosion next season. I'd be super ecstatic if it happens but realistically I just don't see it panning out that way. We're going to have a brand new QB1 and the whole offense will be operating in a new system with a new coaching staff. That is not a recipe for immediate success. Our defense has some holes to fill in the front 4 and there are big ?s across the LB corps. I'm sure that our young, inexperienced secondary will be okay (#trustinGray). Ultimately, I think this team will struggle on both sides of the ball early in the year but improve as the season wears on. That has been the MO for our defense under Bud (a testament to his coaching ability) and I believe the new offense will follow a very similar trajectory on Fuente's watch.

I would love to see this team light up the score-board like we've never seen before but I don't think that will happen until late in the 2016 season or early in 2017 at best. I'd love to be wrong.

Onward and upward

Syracuse might be one of those odd losses depending on how well they adopt Dino Babers offense, and truthfully I couldnt tell you what their QB depth or anything looks like, but just based on schemes that have given us problems, Syracuse could be one of those games.

They may be flawed, but we are playing at Pitt this year if my memory serves me right and... Pitt happens

-Stick it in

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

This is my weekly reminder that while fans fret over defending spread teams, we are 1-5 vs Pitt, Miami, and BC over the last 3 seasons.

Five star get after it 100 percent Juice Key-Playing. MAN

I think you mean last two seasons? We were 2-1 against them in '13, 0-3 against them in '14, and 1-2 against them in '15. So over the last 3 seasons we went 3-6 against those three teams. That's really ugly. I still think most of those losses are correctable. BC will have a new offense this year. Miami has a new HC. Pitt is probably going to be the most similar of the 3 this year and they're sans-Boyd. Miami scares me the most because they return Kaaya and I think Richt will have them playing better football this season than they have in a while. I'm hoping that our offense, at the very least, doesn't take steps backwards. I think we've got the talent to score more points than Pitt in a given game. Pitt was Beamer's kryptonite. Let's see how Fuente handles them. BC still doesn't scare me. They have a good defense but their offense isn't going to improve drastically between this year and next.

I think we have the talent to improve from 6-6 to 8-4. I think our offense will be more consistent and reliable but I don't expect it to blow anybody's doors off. Except maybe Liberty. My point is I think we'll be a better team next year but I wouldn't expect our offense to suddenly start scoring 47 points a game. Is that fair or am I waaaay off base?

Onward and upward

Brain cramp, yes last two seasons. 3-6 vs them over the last three seasons.

Five star get after it 100 percent Juice Key-Playing. MAN

BC is going to be interesting going forward. Lefty is potentially an upgrade for their offense, but so far under Coach A, they have been power run almost exclusively haven't they? BC also just lost the architect of their defense to Michigan, I think that is going to hurt them.

This year at least those losses are more on the offense than the defense

Miami has been a thorn in our side lately and they're going to get better under Richt, I'm just not sure how quickly.

I hate to say it, but I see Miami getting good, real fast. They don't lack for talent, big bodies, or blue chippers. I think Richt is going to right the ship and we're going to see a Miami team resembling 2004 (with hopefully the same result).

I think the Tulsa game was a good example of being able to outscore our opponent, but really not being able to lock down the game. Yes, we won, but at the end I wasn't confident we'd actually pull it off. That must be what Big 12 teams feel like.

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

Great article, French! I am very concerned also about linebacker play, we really need some great recruiting in that area. It is a must!

I agree with this, but Lydon and Edmunds are actually an example of moving in the right direction at that position. If I'm not mistaken those were two solid linebacker recruits.

side note: Tremaine and Trey both have a somewhat irregular/awkard running/movement style. Terrell looks much more fluid moving around. That said, he has a much different frame than his brothers.

I have heard very positive reports on Carson Lydon's improvement. I hope he steps up and forces Foster to Brandon Manning Motu. If Motu outplays him, so be it. I want the best player RIGHT NOW, not potential, on the field.

Five star get after it 100 percent Juice Key-Playing. MAN

That's reassuring to hear about his improvement. I agree that I want the best player right now on the field, especially at a position where reading your keys and being in position will often outweigh talent or "potential" in our defensive scheme.

Question: You mentioned that Edmunds played better as the edge rusher guy (which if I remember, Deon Clarke made a lot of his better plays standing up on the edge in the bear) and while he is still young and has time to improve in the traditional backer role, your mentions of Shegog moving into an inside linebacker position (I guess as an adjustment) kept sticking out to me. Shegog played really well down the stretch, how do you think we will utilize him next season?

same role... he essentially is replacing Jarrett's role around the line of scrimmage as the free hitter. Shegog was up and down in the bowl game, but he finds the football really well.

Five star get after it 100 percent Juice Key-Playing. MAN

Lyndon seems to have the heart and looks athletic. He's the first man downfield on almost every kickoff. That shows more that what you think, especially when 80% are touchbacks.

I have heard very positive reports on Carson Lydon's improvement.

Good, because I'm growing very concerned that we seem to be pinning all our hopes on Lydon. How many times have we dinner that, only to be disappointed?

"Yes I am going to have favorites. My favorites are high production and low maintenance players, coaches, and staff." - JMFF

I believe our offense will continue to get better in 2016. I think the offensive play calling will better next year and I hope we start to utilize a true uptempo offensive scheme without all the worthless motion. Defensely I am concerned. I hope the younger players develop and some the new guys might have to get on the field sooner than later. I would agree that our backers and our DB's are in a lot more need of improvement than the D-Line. Only time will tell and the schedule next year is not going to be easier than this year.

I have read that. What I meant to say was more pertaining to the sudo uptempo where we hurry to the line and we all stand up and look to the sideline for the next play as the play clock runs down. Some think that SL offense motion was effective but in the circles with my coaching buddies, most of it was just noise. IMO.

sudo uptempo

Just tried this and my GPU overclocked and I somehow unlocked an advanced hyperthreading mode on my quad-core CPU. Unreal. But now I don't know how to undo it.

sudo wrscreen

That did it.

Computer geeks will get the joke. Apologies to everyone else.

"Exit light..."

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

"Yes I am going to have favorites. My favorites are high production and low maintenance players, coaches, and staff." - JMFF

Sandwich

XKCD #149: Sandwich

Noise has a purpose though. Sometimes it is to throw off defenses, sometimes it is to reveal alignments and assignments. Can an offense work without noise? Absolutely, but some coaches believe that it helps them. Loeffler used them to see where he could find tendencies and try to expose them, but by doing so, he made the playbook too large and didn't perfect any real bread and butter plays.

1) the hurry-up to look to the sidelines at least keeps the defense on their toes and unable to substitute as freely as they'd like. We definitely weren't the only team to do that.
2) Even the motion that is just "noise" is still useful. It can help the QB identify coverages or blitzes and get a more favorable matchup the passing or running game. We probably won't see as much motion with Fuente, but we'll see some, and some of that will be "noise" and there's a reason for it.

The Carolina Panthers run this almost every play, and I can assure you, its anything but noise. Cam gets the team to the line, motions and hard counts to force the defense to show its hand, and then adjusts to fit what he's given. I could see we were trying to do similar things, but we were doing it with players, for the most part this year, who didn't really understand what they were doing, leaving the adjustments to the coaches.

"When I was growing up, Virginia Tech was a school that was kicking ass and taking names, and it's time we get back to that" - James Franklin

Yeah, the big difference is that the Panthers have Cam who can recognize a defense and audible to the right play. Either Brewer could not do that or he was instructed not to, which is why he would look back at the sideline and then adjust the play. We will never know which it was though, but I feel that he was instructed not to because once we got into a 2 minute offense with him, he could make the right calls it seemed.

I think they had it set up to have him force the defense's hand, where Loeffler could see what they did, relay the audible to our sideline, who would in turn, relay the change to the team. So where with the Panthers its on Cam to make the adjustment (and took him 5 years to get to the point where he can) with Loeffler and Stiney it was up to the coaches. Clearly, the Panthers do it just a little better than we did.

"When I was growing up, Virginia Tech was a school that was kicking ass and taking names, and it's time we get back to that" - James Franklin

How much does Cam actually change it versus the OC in the box telling Cam to change it over the headset?

At this point, Cam pretty much has full control over the offense. He'll get the initial playcall to get the team up to the line, and the coaches are in charge of who is on the field, but in terms of what plays are actually run, Cam audibles at the line to take advantage of what the defense is showing.

"When I was growing up, Virginia Tech was a school that was kicking ass and taking names, and it's time we get back to that" - James Franklin

most of it was just noise

Agreed. However, there were moments when the motion definitely created an advantage in spacing for the offense. Also, motion causes emotion. Even "just noise" can be beneficial to an offense if the defense has to spend extra time preparing for it.

sudo uptempo where we hurry to the line and we all stand up and look to the sideline for the next play

Start mentally preparing yourself for Fuente employing the same technique.

People are going to lose their minds when the offense runs the exact same plays Loeffler ran these past years.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

not if the plays work. I can just about guarantee you that a majority of the casual fans won't see the plays the same way if they work.

#source - I was (and largely still am) a really football stupid casual fan before discovering TKP (also, thanks French and Mason for making me 1.4Billion times smarter at football than I was 3 years ago)

Onward and upward

What happens on the first failed screen or jet sweep?

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Watch the Houston vs Memphis game. They looked nothing like our offense. They were fast and effective.

I feel bad for Motu... I think his struggles this year are a direct result of not having a proper starter in place going into this season, and being forced to start someone who is very talented but raw. As we saw against GT, when he's in position to make the play, more times than not he makes the play and he does it well, which was a game where GT really does too much too quickly to react, so the players just have to purely play their positions. He shut that offense down, because he was told where to be, and made the play when it was up to him. Unfortunately, against teams like Duke and Tulsa, where it was up to him to make the read and take the assignment based on that, the game is just too fast for him right now, and he was exposed.

Once the game slows down for him, I have every confidence in the world in him that he'll be a star player for us. Unfortunately, I just don't think it will be next year.

"When I was growing up, Virginia Tech was a school that was kicking ass and taking names, and it's time we get back to that" - James Franklin

He started some last year and was a full time starter this year. If he can't pick it up by next fall, I'm not sure there's much hope.

He seems very hesitant to make a read and then is shy at the point of contact. I think the mental part can improve, but until he can take on blockers in the hole or stuff a back at the line he is going to struggle. UT will have a field day against him if he doesn't put it together.

That's the thing, but I won't give up on him either. Some guys it does take just a little longer. I see the talent, and I see the desire, but I agree that it is a mental thing at this point for him. I really hope he continues to improve and doesn't just truncate his participation because of the plateauing of his development. Besides that, I like his hair. He needs to live up to that hair, and I'm rootin' for him.

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

I hope I'm wrong but I don't think you can teach physicality

-Stick it in

Eh... this goes both ways. It is difficult to teach physicality to a certain extent. I think most kids who get to the DI football level already have overcome that, especially if they are defensive players.

What is more difficult to measure is how the lack of confidence, knowledge, muscle memory etc. and how the associated hesitation ultimately results in not being in the right position. You are a much better tackler when you are in the correct position to tackle.

Five star get after it 100 percent Juice Key-Playing. MAN

I hate seeing these film studies. I get nothing done at work for the first hour watching and reading and analyzing. Makes me feel like a part of a football team again. Thanks. The combination of Hurd and Dobbs will kill us in Bristol if they don't figure out how to make this work. And if there's a game I want more than any other it's the TN game.

Hurd is an outstanding player. It is a sin against the football gods how Butch Jones uses him. I don't think he is quite Henry/Fournette good, but he is damn close in an I/pistol look.

Five star get after it 100 percent Juice Key-Playing. MAN

Hurd is an outstanding player.

He truly was. He got jobbed in the Heisman voting.

Hurd for Heisman

(Nice to see they still have the list of Hurd's Herd up there. Still has my name on it.)

"Yes I am going to have favorites. My favorites are high production and low maintenance players, coaches, and staff." - JMFF

It looks like moto relies in his instincts too much. In h.s. he could do that and make a play, now he's a weakness that get schemed in. He has to learn to rely in the scheme and do his part, now try to make every play.

For offense I think we will have an uptick, from what myself, and all of you have read as well, I don't think Fuente has the ego of "this is my offense I'm going to run it from day 1. He'll adjust for what he has this year, which should be great playmakers with a new Qb. A returning O-Line, deep backfield, and hopefully we can develop a #3 receiver.

Live by the Motu, die by the Motu.

The sudo Moto, or the pseudo Moto?

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

A lot of interesting battles to watch on defense this spring. Lydon needs to step up and challenge Moto for the Mike spot. Hopefully Edmunds can lock down the backer spot and continue to develop. We need Ekanem to return to 2014 form and hope Trevon Hill is ready to take over the other DE spot. Establishing quality depth everywhere on D is a priority. Super stoked to finally see Big Tim unleashed as well.

It is going to be bizarro world in Blacksburg if the struggles at LB continue into 2016. The offense will be counted on to carry the team if the D is still susceptible to giving up huge plays. I think this offense has the talent and potential to be outstanding under Fuente in year 1. To me, it all revolves around who can step in as our QB. A vet OL and entire cast of skill position talent returning, coupled with key incoming WR and OL depth, sets us up for what could be a great offense. The QB battle will be great with everyone together for spring. Can't wait to see how this team shapes up.

If Trevon Hill is ready to go, even if it's just in a depth/passing situation capacity, everything I have heard leads me to believe he can be a playmaker on the edge.

For whatever it is worth, I think the bigger core group of DL will be an asset in protecting the linebackers a little better. Lu, Dadi, and Corey were all penetration guys. That is great when you get TFLs, however it can expose your linebackers (as evidenced in the review) when you leave them in a position where they need to beat a block and make a tackle. Hopefully this next DL can be effective and at the same time the LBs physically mature and show the ability to win those battles as well.

Five star get after it 100 percent Juice Key-Playing. MAN

Paging Tim Settle

I was curious to see where we ended up in 2015 on defense for YPG compared to the last couple of years

2015-353.8 YPG Rank-34
2014-331.7 YPG Rank-17
2013-269.6 YPG Rank-4

We will need to fix this trend to be successful in 2016. I also looked at the offensive YPG and we ranked between 96 and 103. Another trend that will need to be turned around.

and limiting big plays

Five star get after it 100 percent Juice Key-Playing. MAN

Any chance that having a spread-offensive minded coach helps Bud identify weaknesses in his defensive scheme against the spread? Obviously Loeffler wasn't going to help him identify any of those gaps, so Bud was basically scheming it all by himself. But having someone with a spread mindset, might help expand an already extensive knowledge of defensive schemes to match an offense.

I certainly hope so. As much as the spread has made the D struggle, Foster's record against the spread offenses is better than his record against power teams lately. The last three seasons, VT is 3-6 vs BC, Pitt, and Miami, 1-5 the last two seasons.

Five star get after it 100 percent Juice Key-Playing. MAN

Those power teams understand his gap-fit schemes too, and were often isolating smaller players against huge RBs. After a while the free hitter was becoming the free-hittee.

"It's a Hokie takeover of The Hill ... in Charlottesville!" -Bill Roth

Obviously Loeffler wasn't going to help him identify any of those gaps

all Bud needs to do is watch ECU the last 2 years and then watch the Miami games the past 2 years and he should have an idea as to what the weakness is.

Loeffler explaining to bud what his weakness is is like a receptionist telling the dr how to improve his surgery procedures.

Yeah, I don't think even professional courtesy extends that far.

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

What I think he means also, is practicing against a spread offense will give Foster the tools to identify weaknesses vs spread offenses AND the offensive coach can talk about how he analyses Bud's defense and how he would attack it.

This is going to be great for the ACC.

I think just practicing 1v1 against a spread team will help the D against it more than a schematic adjustment. I'm still trying to figure out what happened to the power run shut down teams we used to have - is it a gradual change in the personnel we have moved to, and going more speed over power, or is schematic?

Sometimes we live no particular way but our own

Well, it is a compound problem. Foster used to beat power offenses with numbers. Fit gaps to drive the RB to the free hitter and then make the play. Play risky coverage, but take away the high percentage throws for the QB. That theme required hybrid players to sometimes play coverage.

Now, the spread puts WR's out that the hybrid guys couldn't cover. Coach Gray would likely be a whip or a backer now versus his rover play back in his day. Foster has tried to use similar concepts while at the same time incorporating safeties that cover like corners? The downside? Those safeties (minus Jarrett) really have not been strong one on one tacklers in the alley. That, and the downsizing of the front seven to emphasize speed, hurt up front.

Tulsa, UNC, ECU, and Duke all added an additional element. They eliminated the numbers advantage. Now, either VT didn't have alley support because of the need to have extra help in coverage, or the offense would use specific formations and plays to attack areas where it was impossible to scheme a free hitter. That left VT with the challenge of having individual players win almost every physical battle in order to avoid multiple big plays, and VT has never had such a talent advantage that they could rely on physical dominance up front to win games. The scheme had, for a long time, mitigated that talent advantage, and when Foster got a talented guy that bought in, they usually looked even more spectacular than their talent level (see Derrick Hopkins.) Now EVERYBODY is struggling against those looks. Clemson just dropped 40 and could have had a ton more (red zone efficiency!) against one of the best defensive fronts in college football over the last 10 years.

The scheme itself is sound. Mitigating big plays because of execution errors (see play 1) is a must. Upgrading the talent will help.

Five star get after it 100 percent Juice Key-Playing. MAN

I think that kind of answers my question Ive had before, can you essentially sub a second Rover for the backer position, I guess its Yes and No. That seems like it would take a special athlete who can cover like a corner but be big enough? strong enough? tackle well enough to play line backer. (thinking of Cody Grimm in this, hes 5'11 200 pounds but he could tackle as an outside linebacker).

My first thought was Reavis :(

Onward and upward

Reavis was perfect for in that role!

PDXHokie

Well, they did play Edmunds essentially as a DE and Shegog played like Jarrett used to.

Five star get after it 100 percent Juice Key-Playing. MAN

Sounds like this is also why we struggle with mobile QB's. I usually see the free-hitter matching up with the back when he goes out to the flat. If we then lose just one gap contain the QB has a pretty big lane to run in, especially if we are in man behind him.

Follow-up question: Are many of the slant/stunt/coverage calls Bud makes more predictable based on formations and motions of a spread offense than they were previously?

Sometimes we live no particular way but our own

Could we talk about Dadi for a minute?

I just can't get over the way his VT career ends with such a fizzle. Especially since he was such a high draft prospect in the preseason. His regression over the course of the season reminds me of the same phenomenon that hit the front seven in 2012.

But here is really why I can't get past this:

This was sophomore Dadi in 2013, getting a helmet sticker from Mark May after his three-sack performance against Pitt. But as it turns out, this was also arguably the high point of his VT career.

Back then Dadi hadn't cracked the starting lineup, although he was making a strong argument to do so after this game. But we never used him in this fashion again.

One of the things I know from my practice is, people perform the best when they get to play to their strengths. Pitt showed us exactly how to make Dadi successful - unleash him, let him attack from different angles and locations, make it impossible to lock in on him. Against Pitt he created chaos.

I can't help but think had we taken this a step further, designed or evolved his Pitt role into a hybrid position just for him, he might have become one of the most dominant defenders in VT history. He had the physical abilities and the intensity, all he needed was a role that matched.

Reality has a mighty pimp hand.

Since this thread just got bumped up again:

God that was such a good game. Redemption from the 2012 debacle, sack after sack after sack.

Oh and Tom Savage still has nightmares about Dadi and Jack Tyler.

Jeez that was such a good defense.

"Go Hokies!" - Thomas Jefferson
@HaydenDubya