All I could think while watching the game was "man, this could be us..." or "was this what it felt like to be a fan in 1999?" They have the offense I've always wanted, and even their defense looked like ours (very aggressive, lots of negative plays, but a couple big broken plays).
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looked very similar at times, they ran an inverted cover 3 on OJ Howard's second TD and it was a nod route by Howard, pulled the middle third away from the middle with another route, and the far side corner just let OJ Howard get behind him.
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I can't put into words how awesome it was to experience the 1999 game...wait maybe I just did!
The game I remember most from that year is the BC game and the feeling immediately after...being on the field grabbing large chunks of turf, the sound the goal post made being uprooted, and on and on and on!
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Agreed. My parents left me at home for the '95 Sugar when I was a toddler, but 1999 title game was my first bowl game (the 1st of many) and it was magical.
My grandparents came with us and my grandmother brought Dillard's bags for all of us to wave.
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The '95 Sugar Bowl was the best for me. It was new, never been there, VT was bursting onto the national scene, Texas didn't even know who we were. and then, we won the game. That was magic for me. '99 was certainly special for the implications of the natty champy, but if I were to rate my experiences, '95 wins. The atmosphere in the Dome in '95 was just more fun, as I said, newer, but just a great night to be alive. The '99 game had a different atmosphere. Different sort of fan there in addition to the school's fans. The sorta national ''ya gotta be at this event'' thing going on made for a spectacle, but not for a better experience for me and my crowd. Would it have been different had we won, well, no brainer, you bet. But first time in New Orleans, first Sugar Bowl, beat Texas and end up #10 in the country for the first big VT splash? Yep, I'll take '95.
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You don't even need to know someone's age. Just ask them who'd we play in the Sugar Bowl and you'll know what generation they are by their response:
a) Texas
b) FSU
c) Auburn
d) Michigan
For me it will always be Auburn, not because it was the best game there, but because it's the only one I saw in person...
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I was definitely a serious fan in 1999, and my recollection is -- sort of, but not really. My memory is VT had a very solid team, but I didn't feel then like we had the level of talent that Clemson has now. Obviously, MV1 was the X factor, and he was a phenom. But, beyond Vick, again, I didn't feel the team had the level of talent we now see of Clemson. All IMHO, of course.
I can't escape the comments about recruiting. We have never recruited anywhere near the level of a Top 10 class, and therein is the issue. Don't get me wrong, in his hay-day, Coach Beamer got more out of our 2 and 3 stars than just about any coach. So, we played way above our level of raw talent. But, the level of raw talent still matters. And, I saw a big difference in that 1999 BCS champ game.
Coach F will have to find a way to boost our recruiting to a top 15 level (and do it consistently) before I see VT competing like Clemson did last night. I hope we see it.
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I absolutely agree with "in his hay-day, Coach Beamer got more out of our 2 and 3 stars than just about any coach.". I remember saying plenty of times over the years that it would be pretty scary if we were able to combine the player development of Beamer and his staff with elite talent.
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I think that's what we're hoping to get with Fuente. He's obviously capable of developing players who aren't regarded as top tier recruits (Memphis) and we're hoping that this infusion of youth in the program (and hopefully a sexy offense that attracts blue chippers) will jolt the recruiting in the program to take it up to the next level. Put those two together and we could be on the Clemson path. Improved recruiting and steady on-field improvement over the next several years, culminating in a playoff run in about 2021 or something. I'd be okay with that.
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Virginia Tech's 1999 team led the nation in both scoring offense (41 points) and scoring defense (10), and beat four ranked teams by a combined score of 174-31. Vick carried us in the title game, but that team was not a one man show. He had little to do with having the best defense in the country.
All-Americans Engleberger, Corey Moore, and Jamel Smith, plus other future pros Anthony Midget, Ike Charlton, and Cory Bird did. We were loaded.
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Lack of depth cost us in the '96 Orange Bowl vs. Nebraska as well. Our 1s matched up well with their 1s, and IIRC we were winning at halftime. As both teams started subbing in backups in the 2nd half, however, there was a huge dropoff for us and not so much for Neb. Keep in mind that this was back when Neb was in the national championship picture every year (they won in '95 and '97).
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That's all true. Michigan State had to beat Michigan and Ohio State in the regular season + Iowa so I don't think the situation is all that different. I'm simply saying that if you consider that Michigan State(or Oregon for that matter) had the class rankings to get into the playoffs, I don't see why we couldn't with similar recruiting rankings and assuming we have as good of a head coach.
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I don't disagree, but Michigan State got some lucky breaks this season (I still can't believe how they beat Michigan), and barely scraped into the playoffs. If they get through their division, they're likely in the playoffs. The talent disparity showed in the Alabama game.
If you get there, you also want to be good enough to succeed.
I think you're right, though. I think VT as a program is comparable. I also have a lot of confidence in Fuente, and I do think that recruiting will be on the upswing.
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Making the playoffs is tough, no doubt. I'm not sold we have the recruits to do it, but that may be true.
Having the depth of talent to actually win a championship? That's another thing entirely.
Unless you are incredibly lucky, your team is going to suffer attrition to the first team. Good depth allows you to sub your big boys in and out with little drop off in production.
Lack of depth is what killed us in 99 & 2k, IMO. Key injuries cost us games, where with Alabama, they just cost you a series or two, but rarely a game and almost never the season results.
This last two years has displayed that all too clearly.
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Depth is definitely an issue. At one point in the second half last night, the commentators noted that (after a Clemson 3-and-out), Bama had their 2nd team in. I don't know if we could do a wholesale sub of even our entire line at this point and compete at an elite level, let alone any subs at LB and DB. We have some good top-line talent, but until the 2nd string is as good as (or close to) those guys, it's really hard to compete at an elite level.
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... and of course the hurry-up offense exacerbates that problem by wearing down your 1st string defenders. Even for the guys who escape injury, there's a big difference between playing 70 snaps and playing 90.
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Didn't someone break down the TOP for Memphis vs VT and show there weren't much of a difference? IE 29 vs 31 minutes? We would also have presumably less 3 and outs
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I wonder what the scoring rate difference would be. As in, how many points per minute did Memphis have vs VT. I'd rather be on the field the same amount of time but score twice as many points
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So I am 100% in agreement that it could be us someday, and I am liable to writing this then getting called out in the near future, BUT I don't think our talent is there at the current moment. I believe it is getting there and hell, Clemson had a ton of first year starters on their roster this playoff drive. What I think needs to happen is:
1) We consistently make the ACCCG.
2) We bring in at least a 5* recruit per year (I can dream)
3) We have an "it" factor the year we make our run. It could be a Mike Vick, a Tyrod Taylor, a Kevin Jones, an entire team of Fullers, but we need that catalyst on our team.
I love setting high expectations but that should be a 5 or 10 year plan. In the immediate future I would love to get back to winning our side of the conference and beating the hell out of LOLUVA, GT, and Miami. I really think the infrastructure, coaching, and administration is all there. We just can't make excuses for another mediocre or substandard year. To get on that level excellence must be the standard.
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Something's off in his table of recruiting rankings. He's got our 14-year average as 45, noting we're well behind Clemson, but I calculate it to be 28, only a little bit behind. Or am I missing something?
EDIT: looks like his table just copies and pastes the 2002 cell for Nebraska and VT.
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Im convinced, unless we arent listing all of the positions like other schools, we wont be able to get into top 10 recruiting classes consistently without a proper staff structure in place. I thought it was bad when I looked at Alabama's Staff once, all I want to know is, how is Clemson affording it?
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Speaking of which OT: whats the best resource to see upcoming events? 1. and 2. once your in can you go to any event regardless of geographic locations? how do you hear about things?
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That's one of the issues being worked on by the Hokie Club. How to get the word out about events the clubs are hosting. Most events, like watch parties, coaches Q&A's, golf games we have in SC dinners etc that are hosted by local clubs don't require you to be a member of the Hokie a club at all much less that local one. Your money is good there so to say, more people bringing in more money just helps the local clubs send more money to Blacksburg.
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Thats good to know, I tried to contact some people about volunteering at any of these events if they needed it, but I didnt hear much back. If they are working on some things, that could make sense.
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VT also field 2 more sports than Clemson currently. AT least I think the math adds up, is Lacrosse at Tech an actual team now?
And while the Men's swim team doesnt add a ton of cost Clemson has opted for the cheapest options on the Women's side. They dont for instance have a softball team, so no stadium, no extra batting facility or practice fields, and they have a Rowing team, which outside of a few sculls, and a chase/coach boat, is a damn cheap sport for the school and one of the reasons its the go to to Title IX balance from the football team for many places.
So VT is also spreading the TV, and ACC money further than Clemson is.
Not inherently good or bad, just something that should be acknowledged.
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In a micro sense, recruiting rankings can only tell you so much. Just because a guy is a five-star talent coming out of high school doesn't mean he'll be a five-star talent exiting college. So much of it is projection, and players fail to pan out all the time for a variety of reasons, whether it's injury, work ethic, bad fit, whatever.
But in a macro sense, team recruiting rankings are a pretty good indicator for a team's success. Here are the team recruiting rankings for all those schools listed above. I've grayed the four years before any national title game appearance to show what kind of talent acquisition these schools had right before their run to the championship game.
Can't be said any better than that.
So here we are: in the years on that chart, FSU fell out of the top 10 once. Clemson fell out of the top 20 once. And we reached the top 20 twice. We have a lot of room for improvement.
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It's kind of strange to me that there has been that much of a disparity between us and the FSUs and Clemsons with recruiting. We are the dominant football program in a state rich with talent, in close proximity to other good recruiting areas in the mid-Atlantic, and established ourselves as a strong and highly recognizable football brand in the 90s and early 2000s. We're likely never going to consistently have top 5 or top 10 classes, but if Clemson can consistently get top 15-20 classes, why can't we? I think our worsening offensive anemia, coupled with a bad showing in some big games on the national stage, really soured our image on the recruiting trail. Negative recruiting with Beamer's age also likely didn't help.
Fuente and the new staff will really be put to the test now. Top 15-20 classes are not out of the question, and I think a clear offensive identity will go a long way in showing recruits we are serious.
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I think we can land classes in the 15-25 range. But it is important to consider that most of the talent we recruit from is a few hour drive, it's not like Miami where they are in our backyard
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Football talent in Miami has been fleeing to UF, FSU, Bama etc. in recent years, even with the U right in their backyard. I don't think location is unimportant, but I also don't think it is everything. Recruits want to go where they feel like they can be in a successful system, showcase their talents, win, and hopefully get a shot at the NFL. Miami has been a dumpster fire for a while now and a complete coaching whirlwind. But I expect Richt will start to change the culture there.
Clemson is just as remotely located in SC as we are in VA. They are relatively close to Atlanta (still 2ish hrs), but being located in the middle of nowhere SC hasn't really stopped top recruits from VA, NC, SC, GA, and FL from coming. Auburn and Penn State are also fairly remote. Butch Jones has been killing it on the recruiting trail, and Knoxville is really near nothing in terms of a recruiting hotbed. If you're a top offensive recruit, why wouldn't you be excited playing in Clemson's offense? Dabo has done a great job with hiring excellent assistants and establishing a strong offensive and defensive identity. If we can show recruits we are equally serious about offense and defense in the Fuente regime, I think VT will once again be seen by recruits as a place where you can win a championship. It will be interesting to see how he can devote more resources and place a higher emphasis on recruiting going forward.
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I agree for the most part on Clemson, but it isn't really in the middle of nowhere SC. It's about 15-20 minutes depending on the part from Anderson, SC which isn't a big city but it has several major roads with lots of stuff. It's also about 40 minutes from Greenville which was recently a top 10 fastest growing city in the country, and is a cool place. It's about 12-15 minutes off I-85 which is 2ish hours to charlotte and Atlanta.
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Agreed, but I was mostly referring to major recruiting areas. Christiansburg and Roanoke have some major roads and lots businesses and such as well. I believe Roanoke (city proper, not total surrounding population) is actually bigger than Greenville. My main point being: you don't have to be located right near a recruiting hotbead or major metropolitan area (Miami, USCw, UGA) to be able to recruit talent from those areas. Tennessee, Clemson, and Penn State are pretty good examples (I know Knoxville is a fairly big city, but the state of Tennessee overall is not terribly rich with football recruits.)
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Never been to Clemson, but couldn't the same thing be (more or less..) said about VT?
It's about 15-20 minutes depending on the part from Anderson, SCChristiansburg/Salem which isn't a big city but it has several major roads with lots of stuff.
It's also about 40 minutes from GreenvilleRoanoke
It's about 12-15 minutes off I-85I-81 which is 2ish hours to Charlotte.
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In my limited experience it does seem pretty similar. The layout is a bit different, but for the most part it is pretty similar. Wasn't saying Blacksburg was in the middle of nowhere, just saying Clemson isn't really as middle of nowhere as it seems.
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Yea I gotcha. I've never been there so I have no idea haha just sort of playing devils advocate against location being a large factor against Tech. (unless you're talking weather.. that's a whole different beast.)
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I've been to Clemson 3 or 4 times over the past 5 years. The campus and the surrounding area are about as similar to Blacksburg as you will ever find. Clemson is pretty much Blacksburg - Mountains + Lake. And they have warmer weather.
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That's because that's been the Beamer Way and what worked before isn't always the best going forward
Clemson has ~30% of recruiting from in state.. They Recruit Heavily in Ga and FL and we recruit lightly in GA and lighter in FL. We recruited Heavy in VA ~60%
Top 15 so far isn't going to win a National Championship. Top 10 or really good Offense system
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both Clemson and Florida State each have at least, at least (for emphasis), 4-5 more people whos jobs are centered around recruiting and player personel.
We just added two positions only a year ago, its like we were selling cars out of our own backyard and expecting to compete with Ashley Schaeffer (yes this Ashley Schaeffer)
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VT has:
1. Danielle Batelstein, Senior Director of Football Operations
2. Chuck Cantor, Director, Player Personnel for Football
3. Thomas Guerry, Director, High School Relations for Football
Clemson has:
1. Recruiting Operations Coordinator
2. Director of Football Recruiting and External Affairs
3. Coordinator of Football Recruiting Communications
4. Director of High School Relations and Player Personnel
5. Assistant Athletic Director of Football Player Relations (Recruiting?)
6. Assistant Athletic Director of Fooball Player Development (Recruiting?)
it's not clear whether those last two have anything to do with recruiting.
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I think you may be missing a few
Administrative Assistant for Football Administration Jill Wilks 864-656-1910 jillana@clemson.edu
Recruiting Operations Coordinator Jessica Carroll 864-656-1642 jlt2@clemson.edu
Associate Athletic Director of Football Administration Woody McCorvey 864-656-1905 wmccorv@clemson.edu
Assistant Athletic Director of Football Player Relations Jeff Davis 864-656-0388 judge45@clemson.edu
Assistant Athletic Director of Football Player Development Brad Scott 864-656-1907 hbscott@clemson.edu
Director of Football Programs Daniel Bassett 864-656-6763 basset2@clemson.edu
Director of High School Relations & Player Personnel Mike Dooley 864-656-6431 mdooley@clemson.edu
Director of Football Recruiting & External Affairs Thad Turnipseed 864-656-1642 tturnip@clemson.edu
Coordinator of Football Recruiting Communications Jordan Sorrells 864-656-2942 jjsorre@clemson.edu
Assistant for Offensive Player Development Durrell Barry 864-656-6670 durrelb@clemson.edu
Assistant for Defensive Player Development Andrew Warwick 864-656-6670 adwarwi@clemson.edu
Im not sure if some of them apply either,
but their staff as a whole is about 30 people to maybe our 15? (9 coaches, player personel roles, grad assistants)
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I got the ones who have recruiting in their title. The two questionable ones are Brad Scott and Jeff Davis, but I'm not sure they do anything but hang around. Both are Clemson legacies and outcast former coaches.
And the VT staff isn't set yet. For instance, Bruce Garnes isn't included in the Football staff, but he's been around forever and does much of what you are supposing these Clemson guys do. Garnes is still listed on the VT staff page under "Equipment" but with no job title, so maybe they are reassigning him?
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Had to remind my parents last night that I am STILL pissed at them for not
taking me to the 2000 Sugar Bowl. Their response was" we didn't have enough
room in the car."
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One of the things that stood out to me about last night was Clemson's special teams play, and how fortunate we are to have a programmatic culture where ST has been, and will continue to be, an emphasis. As well as Clemson played, a little ST magic could've made the difference.
In a related note...
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"As well as Clemson played, a little ST magic could've made the difference."
A little ST magic would have made the difference for us in our title game with FSU, too. I got a big, jarring dose of reality in that game, when it was quite evident that we had not cornered "ST magic" market. FSU handed us our ST asses that night.
Championship teams seemingly only use ST plays when the need to - it isn't an integral part of their business plan.
Watching Alabama execute that onside kick made me wonder if they had that gimmick in the warehouse for years, but never had the need to trot it out. It was awe-inspiring, really - I hate the way Bama is so far ahead of the pack - but that game showcased an organization that was ready to deal with any contingency, with cool efficiency. In my mind, it wasn't much different than how I see the US military - just superior in every way. They have the best resources, the best personnel, the best leadership... training...experience... history...on and on...
Getting to that level just does not seem possible.
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Coach Beamer's special teams goals for each game, as relayed by Steve Marshall, former Hokies assistant coach to the The Hokie Huddler, September 20, 1988:
Allow no more than four yards per [punt] return.
Down a punt inside the 10-yard line.
Hold [kickoff] returns to 20 yards or less.
Average 10 yards per punt return.
Block a punt, field goal, extra point, or force a bad kick.
Average 24 yards per [kick] return.
Make 100 percent of PATs.
Connect on at least 66 percent of field goals.
Have no penalties or mental errors [on ST].
IMHO, I really think Coach Beamer's setting of aggressive goals for special teams represents a hallmark moment, at least for college football..
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Comments
All I could think while watching the game was "man, this could be us..." or "was this what it felt like to be a fan in 1999?" They have the offense I've always wanted, and even their defense looked like ours (very aggressive, lots of negative plays, but a couple big broken plays).
You could definitely tell that Clemson has had some success recruiting.
I thought the same thing about Clemson's "break, don't bend" defense. It did remind me of what VT's defense has often looked like against top teams.
Agree their defense reminded me a lot of ours, especially with all the big plays given up
looked very similar at times, they ran an inverted cover 3 on OJ Howard's second TD and it was a nod route by Howard, pulled the middle third away from the middle with another route, and the far side corner just let OJ Howard get behind him.
I can't put into words how awesome it was to experience the 1999 game...wait maybe I just did!
The game I remember most from that year is the BC game and the feeling immediately after...being on the field grabbing large chunks of turf, the sound the goal post made being uprooted, and on and on and on!
Agreed. My parents left me at home for the '95 Sugar when I was a toddler, but 1999 title game was my first bowl game (the 1st of many) and it was magical.
My grandparents came with us and my grandmother brought Dillard's bags for all of us to wave.
The '95 Sugar Bowl was the best for me. It was new, never been there, VT was bursting onto the national scene, Texas didn't even know who we were. and then, we won the game. That was magic for me. '99 was certainly special for the implications of the natty champy, but if I were to rate my experiences, '95 wins. The atmosphere in the Dome in '95 was just more fun, as I said, newer, but just a great night to be alive. The '99 game had a different atmosphere. Different sort of fan there in addition to the school's fans. The sorta national ''ya gotta be at this event'' thing going on made for a spectacle, but not for a better experience for me and my crowd. Would it have been different had we won, well, no brainer, you bet. But first time in New Orleans, first Sugar Bowl, beat Texas and end up #10 in the country for the first big VT splash? Yep, I'll take '95.
have heard this from A LOT of older alumni.
You don't even need to know someone's age. Just ask them who'd we play in the Sugar Bowl and you'll know what generation they are by their response:
a) Texas
b) FSU
c) Auburn
d) Michigan
For me it will always be Auburn, not because it was the best game there, but because it's the only one I saw in person...
I was definitely a serious fan in 1999, and my recollection is -- sort of, but not really. My memory is VT had a very solid team, but I didn't feel then like we had the level of talent that Clemson has now. Obviously, MV1 was the X factor, and he was a phenom. But, beyond Vick, again, I didn't feel the team had the level of talent we now see of Clemson. All IMHO, of course.
I can't escape the comments about recruiting. We have never recruited anywhere near the level of a Top 10 class, and therein is the issue. Don't get me wrong, in his hay-day, Coach Beamer got more out of our 2 and 3 stars than just about any coach. So, we played way above our level of raw talent. But, the level of raw talent still matters. And, I saw a big difference in that 1999 BCS champ game.
Coach F will have to find a way to boost our recruiting to a top 15 level (and do it consistently) before I see VT competing like Clemson did last night. I hope we see it.
I absolutely agree with "in his hay-day, Coach Beamer got more out of our 2 and 3 stars than just about any coach.". I remember saying plenty of times over the years that it would be pretty scary if we were able to combine the player development of Beamer and his staff with elite talent.
I think that's what we're hoping to get with Fuente. He's obviously capable of developing players who aren't regarded as top tier recruits (Memphis) and we're hoping that this infusion of youth in the program (and hopefully a sexy offense that attracts blue chippers) will jolt the recruiting in the program to take it up to the next level. Put those two together and we could be on the Clemson path. Improved recruiting and steady on-field improvement over the next several years, culminating in a playoff run in about 2021 or something. I'd be okay with that.
But, but....2016 is THE year! (remember when we were all saying that in 2014?) Alas....
2016 was THE YEAR in 2014, and it still is! ;)
Reminds me of the sign behind the bar that reads, "Free Beer Tomorrow!". It's always tomorrow.....(never today) :-)
Virginia Tech's 1999 team led the nation in both scoring offense (41 points) and scoring defense (10), and beat four ranked teams by a combined score of 174-31. Vick carried us in the title game, but that team was not a one man show. He had little to do with having the best defense in the country.
All-Americans Engleberger, Corey Moore, and Jamel Smith, plus other future pros Anthony Midget, Ike Charlton, and Cory Bird did. We were loaded.
Lack of depth cost us in the '96 Orange Bowl vs. Nebraska as well. Our 1s matched up well with their 1s, and IIRC we were winning at halftime. As both teams started subbing in backups in the 2nd half, however, there was a huge dropoff for us and not so much for Neb. Keep in mind that this was back when Neb was in the national championship picture every year (they won in '95 and '97).
That article reflects what I've been thinking for some time now.
We'll see if Fuente can ratchet up the recruiting, but VT as a football program has a lot of things going for it.
On the plus we have the recruiting to make the playoffs now. Seems like we really need to expand our support staff further as well
I'll believe that when I see it, but I sure hope so.
Michigan State's classes were worse than ours
True, but they did lose to Alabama, 38-0.
True, but even making the playoffs would be a feat onto itself.
This year, making the playoffs would have included beating Clemson.
In most any year, it will include beating either Clemson or Florida State, who both recruit well.
Also consider the fact that the ACC Coastal just got an upgrade in coaching throughout the division.
That's all true. Michigan State had to beat Michigan and Ohio State in the regular season + Iowa so I don't think the situation is all that different. I'm simply saying that if you consider that Michigan State(or Oregon for that matter) had the class rankings to get into the playoffs, I don't see why we couldn't with similar recruiting rankings and assuming we have as good of a head coach.
I don't disagree, but Michigan State got some lucky breaks this season (I still can't believe how they beat Michigan), and barely scraped into the playoffs. If they get through their division, they're likely in the playoffs. The talent disparity showed in the Alabama game.
If you get there, you also want to be good enough to succeed.
I think you're right, though. I think VT as a program is comparable. I also have a lot of confidence in Fuente, and I do think that recruiting will be on the upswing.
Sure, but one or two lucky plays are pretty common every season. Michigan State also didn't do itself any favors by running a scheme similar to Bama's
35-7 in a year we were barely .500 though. so theres hope!
Making the playoffs is tough, no doubt. I'm not sold we have the recruits to do it, but that may be true.
Having the depth of talent to actually win a championship? That's another thing entirely.
Unless you are incredibly lucky, your team is going to suffer attrition to the first team. Good depth allows you to sub your big boys in and out with little drop off in production.
Lack of depth is what killed us in 99 & 2k, IMO. Key injuries cost us games, where with Alabama, they just cost you a series or two, but rarely a game and almost never the season results.
This last two years has displayed that all too clearly.
Depth is definitely an issue. At one point in the second half last night, the commentators noted that (after a Clemson 3-and-out), Bama had their 2nd team in. I don't know if we could do a wholesale sub of even our entire line at this point and compete at an elite level, let alone any subs at LB and DB. We have some good top-line talent, but until the 2nd string is as good as (or close to) those guys, it's really hard to compete at an elite level.
... and of course the hurry-up offense exacerbates that problem by wearing down your 1st string defenders. Even for the guys who escape injury, there's a big difference between playing 70 snaps and playing 90.
Didn't someone break down the TOP for Memphis vs VT and show there weren't much of a difference? IE 29 vs 31 minutes? We would also have presumably less 3 and outs
I wonder what the scoring rate difference would be. As in, how many points per minute did Memphis have vs VT. I'd rather be on the field the same amount of time but score twice as many points
So I am 100% in agreement that it could be us someday, and I am liable to writing this then getting called out in the near future, BUT I don't think our talent is there at the current moment. I believe it is getting there and hell, Clemson had a ton of first year starters on their roster this playoff drive. What I think needs to happen is:
1) We consistently make the ACCCG.
2) We bring in at least a 5* recruit per year (I can dream)
3) We have an "it" factor the year we make our run. It could be a Mike Vick, a Tyrod Taylor, a Kevin Jones, an entire team of Fullers, but we need that catalyst on our team.
I love setting high expectations but that should be a 5 or 10 year plan. In the immediate future I would love to get back to winning our side of the conference and beating the hell out of LOLUVA, GT, and Miami. I really think the infrastructure, coaching, and administration is all there. We just can't make excuses for another mediocre or substandard year. To get on that level excellence must be the standard.
Something's off in his table of recruiting rankings. He's got our 14-year average as 45, noting we're well behind Clemson, but I calculate it to be 28, only a little bit behind. Or am I missing something?
EDIT: looks like his table just copies and pastes the 2002 cell for Nebraska and VT.
The biggest thing I took from this article...the ones that recruit well, also happen to be the ones with the most bodies on the recruiting front.
Ex. Clemsons support staff.Period.End
Virginia Tech staff I dont even think its a question why we lose out on recruits anymore...Ill stop blaiming coaches, its not even fair.
Im convinced, unless we arent listing all of the positions like other schools, we wont be able to get into top 10 recruiting classes consistently without a proper staff structure in place. I thought it was bad when I looked at Alabama's Staff once, all I want to know is, how is Clemson affording it?
Lots of small and medium boosters with the occasional big money guy.
Weekly plug to join the Hokie Club
Plug awayyy, Im a recent Hokie Club member
Speaking of which OT: whats the best resource to see upcoming events? 1. and 2. once your in can you go to any event regardless of geographic locations? how do you hear about things?
That's one of the issues being worked on by the Hokie Club. How to get the word out about events the clubs are hosting. Most events, like watch parties, coaches Q&A's, golf games we have in SC dinners etc that are hosted by local clubs don't require you to be a member of the Hokie a club at all much less that local one. Your money is good there so to say, more people bringing in more money just helps the local clubs send more money to Blacksburg.
Thats good to know, I tried to contact some people about volunteering at any of these events if they needed it, but I didnt hear much back. If they are working on some things, that could make sense.
What is your local Hokie club?
Richmond/Tidewater
I may not have been contacting the right people, that could be it as well.
VT also field 2 more sports than Clemson currently. AT least I think the math adds up, is Lacrosse at Tech an actual team now?
And while the Men's swim team doesnt add a ton of cost Clemson has opted for the cheapest options on the Women's side. They dont for instance have a softball team, so no stadium, no extra batting facility or practice fields, and they have a Rowing team, which outside of a few sculls, and a chase/coach boat, is a damn cheap sport for the school and one of the reasons its the go to to Title IX balance from the football team for many places.
So VT is also spreading the TV, and ACC money further than Clemson is.
Not inherently good or bad, just something that should be acknowledged.
Can't be said any better than that.
So here we are: in the years on that chart, FSU fell out of the top 10 once. Clemson fell out of the top 20 once. And we reached the top 20 twice. We have a lot of room for improvement.
It's kind of strange to me that there has been that much of a disparity between us and the FSUs and Clemsons with recruiting. We are the dominant football program in a state rich with talent, in close proximity to other good recruiting areas in the mid-Atlantic, and established ourselves as a strong and highly recognizable football brand in the 90s and early 2000s. We're likely never going to consistently have top 5 or top 10 classes, but if Clemson can consistently get top 15-20 classes, why can't we? I think our worsening offensive anemia, coupled with a bad showing in some big games on the national stage, really soured our image on the recruiting trail. Negative recruiting with Beamer's age also likely didn't help.
Fuente and the new staff will really be put to the test now. Top 15-20 classes are not out of the question, and I think a clear offensive identity will go a long way in showing recruits we are serious.
I think we can land classes in the 15-25 range. But it is important to consider that most of the talent we recruit from is a few hour drive, it's not like Miami where they are in our backyard
Football talent in Miami has been fleeing to UF, FSU, Bama etc. in recent years, even with the U right in their backyard. I don't think location is unimportant, but I also don't think it is everything. Recruits want to go where they feel like they can be in a successful system, showcase their talents, win, and hopefully get a shot at the NFL. Miami has been a dumpster fire for a while now and a complete coaching whirlwind. But I expect Richt will start to change the culture there.
Clemson is just as remotely located in SC as we are in VA. They are relatively close to Atlanta (still 2ish hrs), but being located in the middle of nowhere SC hasn't really stopped top recruits from VA, NC, SC, GA, and FL from coming. Auburn and Penn State are also fairly remote. Butch Jones has been killing it on the recruiting trail, and Knoxville is really near nothing in terms of a recruiting hotbed. If you're a top offensive recruit, why wouldn't you be excited playing in Clemson's offense? Dabo has done a great job with hiring excellent assistants and establishing a strong offensive and defensive identity. If we can show recruits we are equally serious about offense and defense in the Fuente regime, I think VT will once again be seen by recruits as a place where you can win a championship. It will be interesting to see how he can devote more resources and place a higher emphasis on recruiting going forward.
I agree for the most part on Clemson, but it isn't really in the middle of nowhere SC. It's about 15-20 minutes depending on the part from Anderson, SC which isn't a big city but it has several major roads with lots of stuff. It's also about 40 minutes from Greenville which was recently a top 10 fastest growing city in the country, and is a cool place. It's about 12-15 minutes off I-85 which is 2ish hours to charlotte and Atlanta.
Agreed, but I was mostly referring to major recruiting areas. Christiansburg and Roanoke have some major roads and lots businesses and such as well. I believe Roanoke (city proper, not total surrounding population) is actually bigger than Greenville. My main point being: you don't have to be located right near a recruiting hotbead or major metropolitan area (Miami, USCw, UGA) to be able to recruit talent from those areas. Tennessee, Clemson, and Penn State are pretty good examples (I know Knoxville is a fairly big city, but the state of Tennessee overall is not terribly rich with football recruits.)
Never been to Clemson, but couldn't the same thing be (more or less..) said about VT?
In my limited experience it does seem pretty similar. The layout is a bit different, but for the most part it is pretty similar. Wasn't saying Blacksburg was in the middle of nowhere, just saying Clemson isn't really as middle of nowhere as it seems.
Yea I gotcha. I've never been there so I have no idea haha just sort of playing devils advocate against location being a large factor against Tech. (unless you're talking weather.. that's a whole different beast.)
I've worked in Clemson on long term assignments. I really like it there because it reminds me so much of Blacksburg.
Except, Greenville is cooler than Roanoke, and there are a couple of sweet lakes nearby. Don't mention Claytor Lake. It's not even a close second.
I've been to Clemson 3 or 4 times over the past 5 years. The campus and the surrounding area are about as similar to Blacksburg as you will ever find. Clemson is pretty much Blacksburg - Mountains + Lake. And they have warmer weather.
That's because that's been the Beamer Way and what worked before isn't always the best going forward
Clemson has ~30% of recruiting from in state.. They Recruit Heavily in Ga and FL and we recruit lightly in GA and lighter in FL. We recruited Heavy in VA ~60%
Top 15 so far isn't going to win a National Championship. Top 10 or really good Offense system
Oklahoma won a national championship with top 15 class
From the links above,
both Clemson and Florida State each have at least, at least (for emphasis), 4-5 more people whos jobs are centered around recruiting and player personel.
We just added two positions only a year ago, its like we were selling cars out of our own backyard and expecting to compete with Ashley Schaeffer (yes this Ashley Schaeffer)
VT has:
1. Danielle Batelstein, Senior Director of Football Operations
2. Chuck Cantor, Director, Player Personnel for Football
3. Thomas Guerry, Director, High School Relations for Football
Clemson has:
1. Recruiting Operations Coordinator
2. Director of Football Recruiting and External Affairs
3. Coordinator of Football Recruiting Communications
4. Director of High School Relations and Player Personnel
5. Assistant Athletic Director of Football Player Relations (Recruiting?)
6. Assistant Athletic Director of Fooball Player Development (Recruiting?)
it's not clear whether those last two have anything to do with recruiting.
I think you may be missing a few
Administrative Assistant for Football Administration Jill Wilks 864-656-1910 jillana@clemson.edu
Recruiting Operations Coordinator Jessica Carroll 864-656-1642 jlt2@clemson.edu
Associate Athletic Director of Football Administration Woody McCorvey 864-656-1905 wmccorv@clemson.edu
Assistant Athletic Director of Football Player Relations Jeff Davis 864-656-0388 judge45@clemson.edu
Assistant Athletic Director of Football Player Development Brad Scott 864-656-1907 hbscott@clemson.edu
Director of Football Programs Daniel Bassett 864-656-6763 basset2@clemson.edu
Director of High School Relations & Player Personnel Mike Dooley 864-656-6431 mdooley@clemson.edu
Director of Football Recruiting & External Affairs Thad Turnipseed 864-656-1642 tturnip@clemson.edu
Coordinator of Football Recruiting Communications Jordan Sorrells 864-656-2942 jjsorre@clemson.edu
Assistant for Offensive Player Development Durrell Barry 864-656-6670 durrelb@clemson.edu
Assistant for Defensive Player Development Andrew Warwick 864-656-6670 adwarwi@clemson.edu
Im not sure if some of them apply either,
but their staff as a whole is about 30 people to maybe our 15? (9 coaches, player personel roles, grad assistants)
I got the ones who have recruiting in their title. The two questionable ones are Brad Scott and Jeff Davis, but I'm not sure they do anything but hang around. Both are Clemson legacies and outcast former coaches.
And the VT staff isn't set yet. For instance, Bruce Garnes isn't included in the Football staff, but he's been around forever and does much of what you are supposing these Clemson guys do. Garnes is still listed on the VT staff page under "Equipment" but with no job title, so maybe they are reassigning him?
I'm going to give you a leg for the Ashley Schaeffer reference
Had to remind my parents last night that I am STILL pissed at them for not
taking me to the 2000 Sugar Bowl. Their response was" we didn't have enough
room in the car."
#Sauses AMB4VT's parents vehicle
Very close!! LMAO! It was a 2-door Explorer sport and they were
going with another couple. I would have been fine in the back damnit!!
via GIPHY
I would totally rock that Unicorn shirt.
I agree with most everything in the article. I'd even go a step further. To win it all I think we'd need:
1. 3-4 years of top 15 recruiting classes
2. A stud QB and solid RB
3. Injury bug vaccine
4. Great coaching
I think its within reach!
well, we have the coach who beat the team who beat the champs. wooooo
ALL ABOARD THE HYPE TRAIN!!!!!1!!!!111
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED?
Mission Completed!
So our head coach last year and head coach this coming year won NC's one after the other.
We had that in 2015 too.
One of the things that stood out to me about last night was Clemson's special teams play, and how fortunate we are to have a programmatic culture where ST has been, and will continue to be, an emphasis. As well as Clemson played, a little ST magic could've made the difference.
In a related note...
"As well as Clemson played, a little ST magic could've made the difference."
A little ST magic would have made the difference for us in our title game with FSU, too. I got a big, jarring dose of reality in that game, when it was quite evident that we had not cornered "ST magic" market. FSU handed us our ST asses that night.
Championship teams seemingly only use ST plays when the need to - it isn't an integral part of their business plan.
Watching Alabama execute that onside kick made me wonder if they had that gimmick in the warehouse for years, but never had the need to trot it out. It was awe-inspiring, really - I hate the way Bama is so far ahead of the pack - but that game showcased an organization that was ready to deal with any contingency, with cool efficiency. In my mind, it wasn't much different than how I see the US military - just superior in every way. They have the best resources, the best personnel, the best leadership... training...experience... history...on and on...
Getting to that level just does not seem possible.
It's all about coaching really. The balls to call the play knowing the need for momentum was so needed and the coaching to see the poor player layout.
the kick was great but look at the orange jerseys vs white jerseys
How do you really judge/rank special teams
For the full year Alabama took only 2 Onside kicks and had only one kickoff returned for a touchdown
Duke leads the country with 4 Touchdown returns while Memphis is #2 in Touchback percentage.
Alabama is tied for 2nd in blocked kicks/punts while VT is tied for 2nd to last
Coach Beamer's special teams goals for each game, as relayed by Steve Marshall, former Hokies assistant coach to the The Hokie Huddler, September 20, 1988:
IMHO, I really think Coach Beamer's setting of aggressive goals for special teams represents a hallmark moment, at least for college football..
As much as we can dream, I have trouble believing we'll ever be able to compete with the money that Alabama or Texas and the blue bloods have.
My God! They chartered a 747!
Tech charted two planes to Shreveport.
Duke chartered a Delta 747 to the 2014 Sun Bowl