Just a got a chance to talk with Bud for a couple cool features we're planning, but thought I'd let you all in on a few details ahead of time.
I asked him plenty about the new look of the defense this coming year, and one of the things we ended up touching on was the secondary. He said he was really hoping to stop doing any sort of position shuffling on the back end, pointing to that sort of constant change as one of the defense's biggest problems last year.
But he said he wasn't opposed to "creating more depth," and one of the examples he cited? The fact that Deon Newsome has started working at rover in the summer to try and provide another body behind Terrell Edmunds.
Newsome has never really stuck at receiver, so it's a move that it's not wildly surprising, but thought it'd serve as a good tidbit to share as I work on writing up the rest of our chat.
Stay tuned...
Comments
I am excited to see if Newsome can stick at rover. That will help. Behind Alleyne, there is no safety depth that doesn't have the word "freshman" next to the name.
Is Der'woun Greene a rover?
he played free safety in the spring if i remember correctly
Is there a significant difference between playing a Freshman that came in as a DB and playing a guy who has very little experience, and it's on the other side of the ball?
strength should be a big difference for the average freshmen versus someone who has been in the program for a few years. At least if he has been putting in the work, which may not be the case with deon seeing as he's been in the dog house almost his whole time here.
while we're randomly speculating about these guys and their personalities/character as people, i would like to venture a guess that he didn't get more PT because his favorite color is blue and loeffler's was red
Why isn't his favorite color maroon? He's dead to me! /s
I heard it's cause he liked cake. I mean, we all know what happened to Reavis when he refused to recant his love for cake...
Interesting considering Newsome isn't a big body and is known for his speed rather than strength.
You know who could have been a great rover?
Trey Edmunds.
I'm happy to hear that Bud wants to stop shuffling people around. I think that over the years we tried to put the best player in the best position for the team a little too often, instead of putting a player in their best position and sticking him there. If we find a position for a guy and give him time to absorb it, I think we'll be better off.
Too bad he wanted to play running back or the Edmunds defense would have been complete.
I'm happy to hear that Bud wants to stop shuffling people around. I think that over the years we tried to put the best player in the best position for the team a little too often, instead of putting a player in their best position and sticking him there. If we find a position for a guy and give him time to absorb it, I think we'll be better off.
I sure hope Charley Wiles gets that memo.
I hope so too. And I hope one of the forthcoming tidbits will be that Mihota will stay at DE.
But I read this as him referencing the secondary only, and Gray's more recent philosophy of making everyone interchangeable.
Mihota hopefully does stay at DE, for this season, but that's more because we don't have the horses at that position. He doesn't have the explosiveness to ever be a consistent pass rush threat IMO. Stinks for him because it would be nice if he could just focus on getting the size/weight required to play DT going forward if he'll be there again after this year.
You are wrong- the entire D was better at the end of the season with Mihota playing in Nicolas' place.
Because he was better than dadi who had been hurt all year and not playing well doesn't mean he is a natural DE. How good was the defense in the bowl game giving up 50 points and against a terrible uva team?
Here is the Tulsa box score again: http://espn.go.com/college-football/boxscore?gameId=400852719
I'm still blown away that we scored more in one half than we did in any entire game last season except Purdue.
Watch the series when Mihota was in the game vs Dadi- it will tell you all you need to know.
Note- Tulsa and UVA did not score a point on series where Mihota AND Nigel Williams were both on the field. I can't emphasize that enough.
But again was it that mihota was such a great fit at DE or was it that Dadi was terrible last season? Our defense operates best when our DEs are creating havoc and I don't see mihota as ever being that guy. I do agree he'll be much more fundamentally sound than dadi and be able to set the edge rather than opening lanes like dadi did.
Mihota was very good. He was gap sound. He ate up blockers that allowed linebackers and safeties to make plays. He made plays and created pressure. He took penalties. He was Orion Martin, just in a bigger package.
It absolutely astounds me that EVERYONE complains about Bud not utilizing bigger players in his system, and then turn around in the same breathe and say that a big, athletic guy with great burst who is very good on film "CAN'T" play the position. Mihota is a DE. It is the position he is best suited to play. It is the position he would have played had he gone to Alabama. And, the film bears that out.
Let's be honest. He wouldn't have ever played if he went to bama (yes this is 100% speculative opinion) and they run a different scheme than us anyways so not sure how that applies.
I have no issue with larger players playing DE and think we've been woefully undersized there for quite some time. I just don't share the same optimism regarding Mihota's athleticism and ability at the position that you do. Hopefully you are right and at the end of the year he has 7+ sacks and our yards per rush is down significantly. I also don't think the level of competition of uva and Tulsa is a great indicator of what is to come. UVA's oline wasn't terrible but Tulsa's was one of the worst in the country in terms of pass protection.
If we aren't going to count on our DEs/blitzers to get to the QB immediately because we have all of our DBs in man coverage on islands he will be much more effective, but if we are counting on guys creating constant pressure I haven't seen it from him.
He doesn't need to have 7 sacks to be a good defensive end. The 2006 defense that lead the country- the #2 sacker was corner Brandon Flowers (3.5 sacks.) It is about using scheme to create pressure at the right times. Mihota can and has done that on film, while being gap sound (which would eliminate some of the QB broken play issues, most of which stemmed from leverage zones that pull the inside backers out of the middle of the field coupled with DE's getting too much space up field between them and the DTs, leaving HUGE running lanes.)
and Ellis played Ekanem's spot. Ekanem can put up the numbers. You need Mihota to be sound and disruptive. And he will do that. Mark my words.
Do you see any brandon flower types in our secondary this year? I sure don't.
certainly not the same kind of blitz threat off the corner as Flowers, no. There is some Jimmy Williams in Alexander, but he has to get a better feel for the corner spot to play at the same level.
I love hearing this. Especially French confirming my thoughts about Mihota.
Cliff notes: Mihota stays at DE, the secondary won't play musical chairs, Settle is chasing down running backs like a mad man. Is it Sept. 3rd yet?
holy cow! way to miss the point!!
He didn't bring up Flowers as an example of somebody we have on the team now who will get sacks. He was just making the point that good DE play doesn't necessarily equate to lots of sacks.
I didn't miss his point. DE's getting pressure isn't nearly as important when you have elite corners like flowers/macho and a defense with a lot more talent then we will have this season. When you don't know what you have in the secondary getting pressure much quicker takes a lot of pressure off of them and while I think mihota will definitely be better than dadi against the run and playing assignment football he isn't an explosive guy off the edge that is going to get a ton of pressure.
Way to make assumptions though. Look at the talent on that 2006 defense compared to what we'll have this year: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Virginia_Tech_Hokies_football_team
You strike me as the kinda guy who predicts a loss for his favorite team, and then watches the entire game silently rooting against his team just so he can say "I told you so"
No i'm the type of guy that doesn't just think my team is going to win because they are my favorite team. I'd love nothing more than for mihota to be an all-acc type of guy if he does end up being the starter opposite of ekanem I just don't have the same optimism that French does.
Edit: That also isn't an indictment on mihota it's more on the overall talent level of the defense and having to account for what i'm thinking will be a weak secondary.
Nailed it!
Assumptions based on a message board forum.....
Everyone has their own opinion. I'm not trying to change yours.
It's ok to disagree but what evidence do you have that he would be better at DT? Simply because Wiles wants him there?
Because all video evidence of him playing in actual games shows he can be a very effective DE for us. You may have a different conclusion to that evidence but you certainly don't have evidence showing otherwise. And there is no way to blame Mihota for how poorly the entire defense played against Tulsa and lolUVA. As French said when he was in the defense was better. That's not his opinion, that's what anyone can see on screen.
Your opinion is yours. Great. We all get it. You don't believe he is a good DE. But is there any substantive material you can point to that supports what your saying?
If not, then why are you so against him playing there? It's not like we need him at DT.
I don't think our backend is going to hold up well this season and that's where I think we need more explosive play from the DE position. If we did have a backfield like flowers/macho/kam etc it wouldn't be nearly as important. Again not an indictment so much on mihota as it is the defense in general. I think he will still be an improvement to dadi because he gave us almost nothing last year and like French has already said may have done more harm than good in losing contain and leaving other players out to dry.
I do expect to see mihota back at DT after this season when we won't have the same amount of depth we do this year if gaines and hill are able to get some significant time this year at DE. Also like I said if mihota goes on to regain some of the explosiveness he lost because of his foot injury supposedly and tears it up i'll be ecstatic for him. Any help we get from unlikely sources to hide some of our weaknesses will be welcomed.
I love the "anything for the team" attitude but at some point moving good players around is not smart or effective coaching. If he plays DE this season then unless he is soundly beat out in the following offseason and moves to 3rd on depth chart AND he wants to shift, he should remain at DE. That would be a very poor coaching decision.
Not all DE's need to crash the boards and go for sacks. If you use your Ends correctly then you can disrupt plays no matter they are running or passing. I think that is key for how you use Mihota. That being said I can see him getting sacks. His explosion doesn't need to be all the way to the QB, just to the mesh point. He certainly seems capable of that, and by the admission of our own OL and by video he seems to do just that. If he keeps doing that and his performance even improves he will help the secondary much more.
Definitely been thinking this for awhile as well...
yes also hope we recruit terribly so I can say I told you so. You don't have to post rainbows and unicorns to be a fan. At the end of the day everyone wants VT to be the best program possible. Some people (most on here) take the ultra-positive approach, which is fine as it's your perspective. I prefer to take off the "fan goggles" when I discuss football.
This should have been your original answer. Your post above is easily misunderstood.
From the immediate discussion here, it appears to me that no matter what evidence is produced you change the topic to fit a new narrative. This is my summary:
Kna: Mihota isn't explosive and would be a better DT.
French: film shows he performed very well at DE against UVA and Tulsa
Kna: but how many points did those teams score?
French: 0 on the series that Mihota played.
Kna: well those teams sucked anyway. He wouldn't play for Bama and won't produce sacks
French: Mihota is gap sound and will help in many respects, so the number of sacks alone shouldn't be used to judge his performance. some of our great defenses had DBs with more sacks than DEs.
kna: and we don't have DBs that good this year do we?
How does that honestly look to you?
Pretty sure my narrative remained the same throughout. Based on what I perceive we need out of our DEs, because of other personnel, we need more explosion out of the position. I think mihota will be a steady guy but he's not a guy that is going to worry teams from a pass rush perspective.
I honestly find it hard to believe that Tulsa scored on 0 of the possessions that mihota was in on considering they scored on roughly half of their possessions. Against UVA it's entirely possible, but how much did he even play again considering he registered no stats? Comparing the defensive situation from 2005 to this year's team is about as close as comparing whoever our qb will be to MV7.
Without reading through everything- I believe I said thatTulsa didn't score on any of the possessions where Nigel Williams and Mihota were on the field. Williams was injured in the 3rd Q, so I believe Tulsa did score once when Bud brought in the backup DL minus Mihota to give the starters a breather late in the game.
In the first half, Tulsa scores the first two drive then Tulsa went 3 and out in their first possession with Mihota and Williams on the field. (score 14-14/series where Riley got hurt).
Williams and Baron stayed in with the starting DE the next series (also a 3 and out.)
Next series- starters back in across the DL and Tulsa scores.
Next series starting DL was in and got a stop.
Next Series 2 DL is in but Williams is out (Sobczak in) and they got a 3 and out.
NextSeries- starting DL in. Tulsa drives, Dadi takes the 15 yarder. Mihota comes in and has his worst play I have seen on film (trainwrecked by the HBack.) Then Mihota gets a sack on 3rd and goal to force a field goal attempt.
I am happy to keep going, but I am tired and have actual work to do.
If your narrative is truly who provides the best option at DE for this year's defense, who is on the roster that is going to provide that ability and should play instead of Mihota? You scoff the mention of the 2006 defense, saying we don't have Macho or Flowers on the roster, but seem to fail to recognize that at the same time you're discounting Mihota's ability in favor of a DE with a skill set that doesn't appear to be on the roster. You don't think Minota is a fit at DE; French does. It could have been left at that. However if we're talking about this team and roster, even you seem to recognize that he's the best option, so what's the point of the back and forth?
It's not just macho/flowers from the 2006 defense. We had 5-6 nfl'ers playing and even backups like adjepong in the wings.
As for mihota I think this season he will play plenty of DE and we probably need him there. I don't think he's an every down player and on obvious passing situations I think he'll be coming out in favor of guys like gaines and hill regularly when we're able to substitute. The reason for the back and forth was because it was suggested that he couldn't understand how people argue for us to go bigger at DE and then complain when we have a guy like mihota who has that size play DE. Mihota to me just doesn't have the athleticism to be an very down DE, but I have agreed with almost everything he's said in regards to him being an improvement to dadi (2015 not 2014).
you and me both.
I have been beating the "Mihota should stay at DE" drum since the day they first moved him to DT. He will cause havoc at DE by simply playing the position correctly, regardless of his personal sack count.
As pointed out by others, the bigger players are great/horrible flip flopping doesn't just surprise me, it straight up annoys the heck out of me. I wasn't sold on Mihota at DE at first, but the film is damning for ANY argument to move him back. Does Wiles really want him back at DT? I have a hard time believing it, but I haven't been in the loop recently.
On the subject of bigger players are better and we have been putting players where we needed them instead of where they belonged, am I the only one who thinks Ekanem's speed/size combo would have made him a great linebacker and possibly aided us substantially now (later in his career)...?
Thank you! That's what I said...Dadi in the wrong gap/leverage hung Tremaine out to dry on the first Tulsa TD
VS UVA, Dadi didn't play 1st half, UVA had 6 pts., he played 2nd half & they scored 14
A difference of 1 TD in 1 game is not exactly a huge data set.
well technically, they only eeked out two FGs in the first half vs 2 TDs in the second, but I get your point.
I disagree.
He has a quicker jump off the line than any of our other ends. He doesn't have the bend or speed to get around the tackle consistently but explosiveness isn't his problem. If he can transition power better with a bull rush he will be fantastic. Also not getting mauled in the run game is a huge plus
Yup, I don't want everyone to be interchangeable. Specifically, I want us to be able to identify where people project in the NFL. If a person has a well-defined NFL position target, put them there and let them train for it for four years. Use the players who are less likely to be drafted as the interchangeable parts.
I hope so, too. As much as I loved Dadi, I didn't like that we were putting him at DE. For our team and our scheme, maybe it was the best place for him to land. But at his size I always thought there was zero percent chance he'd end up as an end in the league.
Given his athletic gifts, he was a multi-year starter for us at end but ended up getting drafted in the sixth round and projected as a LB, and Mark Dulgerian of NFL.com even said that he looks more like a safety.
The more we win and the more players we put in the league, I think the better our recruiting will get, and I think an actionable adjustment we can make is to specialize our talent to well-defined positions.
Well as a r-so he did play some at LB against PITT and GT I believe and those were his best games. I think the staff assumed he'd be able to put on and sustain the weight necessary to be an every down DE, but I don't know if his metabolism is just crazy or what but that never materialized. We also had almost no other options behind him.
Many college defensive ends move to OLB in the pros because so many teams run a 3-4 now, as well as the fact that those OLBs are basically stand up defensive ends anyways. If you wanna be a linebacker in the NFL, defensive end is by far the best prep for it in our system. And Dadi only fell so far because he broke his hand and had a poor senior year. He was being talked as a potential first rounder if the senior year went well.
With all due respect, Dadi fell because Dadi did not play with the discipline or heavy shoulder needed to be a stalwart OLB (who has to contain and force plays and take on pulling linemen/wham blocks all the time) in a 3-4. He even has acknowledged that with his weight gain since joining the Chiefs. (Per this article, he was up to 240 in May http://www.chiefsdigest.com/chiefs-dadi-nicolas-adjusting-to-new-position/ which also suggests he didn't take his time in the weight room as seriously as he could have at VT.)
True, I guess I made it sound like the hand was the only reason, it wasn't. I guess my bigger point was that we weren't setting him up for failure by putting him at de and not lb or safety. While he's on the light side, Vic Beasley was a top 10 pick at almost the same size, and many college defensive ends end up at olb now that 16/32 teams run a 3-4.
Beasley was productive and much more gap sound.
Sounds alot like another highly rated recruiticorn that we kept shuffling around to different positions and he could not stick anywhere. Hopefully Newsome can stick here and provide some help to the team.
Newsome wasn't very highly rated. Was a mid-tier 3 star.
But who's going to run the ineffectual 1 yard jet sweep in Newsome's place?
Someone at Boston College
You win the internet today. Brilliant.
My mental health loves this comment.
I confess it took me WAY too long to get this joke. If you need me, I'll be in the corner.
I'm okay with pretending Loeffler doesn't exist and never happened.
Stroman?
Foster's comments like this further my belief there was a riff between TG and BF. Kinda sounds like Bud didn't want to shuffle, but Torian did anyway.
Wonder if TG is going to do that at UF or not.
Yeah I like the idea of cross training guys and building well rounded DBs to an extent, but sometimes I felt like it was being done too much. I mean, do you want 4 guys who are pretty good and interchangeable or 2 extremely good CBs and 2 extremely good Safeties?
We coach our CBs and FSs together, and the Rovers and Whips are coached together as well, so they are kind of cross trained already.
Isn't that changing with new staff?
I mean, tough to know without seeing practice, but yes, Mitchell technically just handles CBs, while Scott is in charges of safeties. FWIW, that does seem to be how they're handling things at the prospect camps they've been running this summer.
You know that old saying that every announcer utters when a DB drops an easy interception: "If he could catch, he would be a WR?"
That's Deon Newsome. There was never any evidence that he couldn't catch, but the lack of balls thrown his way for the number of plays he was on the field was probably indicative of our confidence in his mitts.
Or his lack of ability to get open...
That's surprising to me given his size.
Jarret was about the same size
Maybe so... Kyshoen looked the part, even when undersized. Deon is so.... slight.