Hear me out, fellow TKPers.
I was preparing a grandiose forum post about how big of a game the Battle at Bristol is in context, compared to other critical games we've watched VT play in recent history. But ultimately, as I tried to word such a post, it became evident to me that the answer is in the question. To put it simply, nobody except us, the Hokie faithful, really expects us to win. And given the last three seaons, there is no blame to lay in that assumption.
This isn't the Stanford Orange Bowl. This isn't #BeatBama. This isn't even Ohio State. Those questions have been answered. The page has been turned. It's a new dawn. It's a new day. And as the man says, I'm feeling fine.
There's a whole lotta new in Blacksburg. And along with said newness comes the customary honeymoon. Justin Funte gets to install his vision. He gets to remake Hokie Nation in his image. Nobody expects much during a rebuild. And that brings me to my point. If we go up against #17 Tennessee and lose, does anyone hold it against us? We're playing our second game under our new head coach.
But if we win... Oh, baby, if we win...
Is this what it feels like to play with house money? Nothing to lose, but a nation's attention to gain.
Time to make a statement.
Let's go.
Comments
maybe he is just feeling fine
Beeee-bop-ba-ba-da-da Bop-bop-ba-da-da....
I agree 99.9% with this "nothing to lose" concept, but there's a big part of me that really dislikes that mentality. I believe you are correct from an outside perspective looking onto us, but I would argue that the-fact-that-we-didn't-win is what we have to lose.
Hear me out... the fact that the ceiling is pretty high for "what we have to win" contributes to the "what we have to lose" in my opinion.
That AND I don't want my UTenn friends taking bake what we gained when we beat up Lane Kiffin in Atlanta...
Cheers to a win!
Just because I agree with something doesn't mean I can't dislike it :-)
I don't think we're in that situation. Multiple analysts on espn during major segments have predicted us to win and our staff has been selling this game for a long time to recruits. I think if we're at least competitive it won't hurt us, but if the game is ugly it will be a major blow to momentum.
Been extremely busy this week, who the hell is picking Tech to win? Puncher's chance, but at best I have them covering, but not winning outright.
David Hale of ESPN picked us on the ACC picks today... One of their SEC reporters picked us too but I can't recall who.
I think we are halfway there. I think a team gets a pass anytime they play a team ranked higher and don't lose in a blowout. That last part is important: don't lose in a blowout. If we get just absolutely killed on national TV, we will be written off for the year by anyone serious about football, including recruits. The coaches will then have to spend another year selling a vision rather than a program on the rise, which I am sure is much more difficult. There is no such thing as a free lunch or a free loss (especially in a hyped up game). If its a win or a competitive close loss, the coaches can point to it in the recruiting pitch as proof the program is turning for the better, a bad loss is something all of the other ACC coaches get to point to.
Good point..... Sort of like UVA betting blown out by Richmond?
Exactly. I just never knew that a Thoroughbred can't handle a Spider
Apparently, Richmond meant these spiders
But if you ask any LOLUVA fan, this was their actual competition:
Yeah pretty much. I don't think losing this game does anything to us except put our record exactly where I thought it would be at this point in the season, I expected a loss here because I thought Tennessee was going to be accelerating up the polls this year and we are obviously in year 1 of a new coach, scheme, and have a whole slew of new faces that we don't know what to make of yet.
So if we lose, no big deal in my book. If we win, I'll expect an undefeated season and NC #noPressure
We really need to play well in this game, win or lose
This. I'll just be happy to see some progress. Hell even against Liberty, I was just happy to not see non-stop procedure penalties.
Tennesee has way more to lose and that's one of the reasons they never scheduled this annually. If the lose to us they lose a very big recruiting territory for their school.
That is the one thing I am worried about. If we do lose then the State of Virginia will have more of its player pouched by anothe SEC school. It's bad enough Florida has been able to do it in years past.
dammit, I hate it when UT pouches our recruits.
I feel like FSU and Alabama have poached top VA recruits far more often than Tennessee in recent years. That being said, in the 5-10 year ago range Justin Hunter and Jerod Mayo were excellent players for UT.
UT definitely has a lot more on the line than we do, Butch is in year 3 of his rebuild and its time for them to put up or shut up. That said, the one thing we can't afford is to get blown out of the stadium circa LSU 2007. I think that could really shatter any confidence Fuente and Co. have been trying to instill in this team. Stay calm, play your assignments, and keep it competitive and I think the team leaves in a good place. Catch a few breaks and get a few break-out performances and we can leave with the win.
FTFY
We WILL win this game.
Enough of this make a statement blather. That was the OLD way. It's time for new way. The better way. It's just plainly win. Nothing else. Nothing but WIN.
Is this what ECU feels like every year when they play us?
I think they are close to an even split in the series the last 10 years. I think they are over the initial butterflies.
Godamnit
As I wrote this, I thought more about how Beamer's teams in the mid-90s must have felt.
The forbidden name wasn't mentioned, but I guess this gif can be used in other ways.
Rich Rod. Problem Solved.
Nope. This gif is only allowed for he who shall not be named.
This always gets a leg.
Almost in nothing to win stage as well.
IfWhen we win, the narrative will all be about UT not living up to expectations.Unfortunately I think this is true. When UT showed poorly last week they took away your chance to shock the world. You'll still have a win in front of the biggest crowd on a national stage, but the narrative will be that you only beat a team that needed OT to beat App State
That's how the media operates more often than not anyway. Even when VT beat Ohio State in 2014 the media narrative was more that Ohio State played poorly and beat themselves rather than giving VT credit. That opinion only became stronger as Ohio State went undefeated for the rest of the year and won the national title.
No, they definitely were full on board the VT train the week after we won that game. It was when we proceeded to trip over our own shoes in losing to ECU and letting that cascade when the narrative changed to Ohio St just having a bad game.
That's not what I recall but maybe I'm wrong. If so I have to imagine it would be because of a relatively weak rest of the schedule. VT was only ranked #17 after beating OSU. That is comparable to Wisconsin's beating LSU last week (they went from unranked to #16/#10) and I've not heard anyone tout them as a national contender and mostly things along the line of "they won't stay there once they start losing games in Big 10 play."
They weren't calling us National Title contenders, but both ESPN and SI ran front page articles in the days after going into depth about how the coaching turnover Beamer made was poised to take VT to a greater height than we had achieved in the 10 years prior and how we were on the cusp of being a legitimate football power again, and how Loeffler and Brewer were the perfect fits for VT and how they were going to have us playing in Charlotte that year....
And then the ECU game happened.
Bro...we shot up in the rankings and we being predicted to win the acc immediately after that win. No need for the victim complex.
Man that first quarter against ECU was so disenchanting. It was like, 'Hey we're good again! Wait, yup, nope.'
I didn't say VT was the victim or that this is even specific to VT. It's just how the media tends to operate when there's a major upset of a perceived national title contender. That's why I brought up Wisconsin over LSU last week. I don't know about you, but the storyline I've heard on that is more along the lines of "wow LSU's offense is still terrible and Les Miles will have a hard time saving his job now" rather than positives about how Wisconsin played.
Also not to be a dick but after beating OSU, VT was only ranked #17 in the AP and #19 in the coaches poll. And VT was anointed to win the ACC over defending national champion FSU and Jameis Winston? I certainly don't recall that and frankly have a really really hard time thinking that happened.
Yes, that would be shooting up the rankings...going from unranked to 17 is a leap. And we were getting dark horse picks for the playoffs after that game. The hype was real.
I think the waterboy is going to be playing offense and special teams in addition to defense because you can't hold anything back
I think in this case, it's not whether you win or lose, but how you play the game.
If we're competitive, it's a bonus either way. If we win, double bonus. If it's not a competitive game, we get a black eye over it.
All of that said, I'd LOVE to see a win. The narrative, of course, will be that Tennessee isn't good if that happens, but it would still be a nice win on the resume.
If we beat Tenn, people will just say that they aren't back yet but I think the biggest part of the equation will be how both teams play the rest of the season. If we beat them and then drop off ala 2014, it was a fluke. If we beat them and then play good ball and have 9 wins and Tenn has a 9-10 win season, then the win looks a lot better and so does their loss.
Tennessee definitely has more to lose in this game than we do though.
True.
I wouldn't say we have nothing to lose. From a national perspective view, we don't have much to lose but with recruiting and momentum I think we do. A loss against Tenn, especially a bad loss could impact recruiting. We will look like this is a bigger rebuild than it is and that could discourage some of the top recruits. It will definitely hurt the momentum we have been building since the hiring of Fuente. A win though would be huge on all 3 fronts.
I'd say 2014 @ OSU was much more nothing to lose than this. (Some) folks are giving us a chance. NO one gave us a chance in 2014.
For some reason I thought one of the game day talking heads picked us in that game... Desmond maybe?
If I remember correctly, no one picked us but Kirk and Des reiterated that we would be a tough out and would make the game "closer than the experts think". In 2015 a couple heads picked us for sure (I certainly remember Mark May doing so).
The Oregon Duck did! And proceeded to get all of his picks correct, besides USC Stanford where he picked both teams to lose. Remember that day damn well
psychologically there is nothing to lose.
But I saw that VT was -11.5 in this game, so your boy has a modest sum on VT winning or coming damn close
My post might be slightly off topic... but I honestly don't think this is a big game for the program. I'm much more interested in seeing us build an offense identity (and rebuild/tweak our defensive identity) than I am in winning one game against a non-rival who is only an occasional recruiting opponent. Like CFB said after the 2014 OSU win - this win means nothing if we don't build on it - same applies to this game.
Obviously the two scenarios aren't mutually exclusive, but given the choice, I'd rather drop this game, continue to improve and build an identity, beat ND and win the ACC coastal, then win this game and have up and downs throughout the season.
I sort of agree, but I don't want to drop this game. I'd like to see it go down as a win for VT.
This is a public relations sort of deal, and will go on record as the largest college game.
Definitely true re: public relations. 3 years from now, we may look back at this as the time when VT said 'We're back' to the nation.
That said, I'm just looking for improvement each game. I'd rather make freshman mistakes here than week 10. Of course, no freshman mistakes at all is best case scenario.
I believe you're thinking of da U.
I want to win so we can keep that big ass trophy in Blacksburg forever
Next to this:
And of course this:
All of those are trophies that should be kept in Blacksburg forever, even if risked on a more frequent basis.
I agree with most of this. The OSU game was a different beast. We caught them at the right time and out schemed them more than we outplayed them. If we beat Tenn, I think it will be because we are the better team.
What the hell is the difference in outscheming and outplaying? It's not like we invented the forward pass and unveiled it in this game for the first time. We used to complain about the offensive staff saying, "we are just a block away" or blaming our ineptitude on execution issues. Year after year those issues were never resolved. Was improving the offense a matter of the team playing better or merely scheming better? I guess I just don't see how you can separate the two and feel like it takes credit away from our guys who made the plays on the field.
Outscheming is 100% on the coaches. Outplaying is 100% (well, maybe not 100% but close) on the players. Boom. Separated.
I don't really agree with the original comment, though. The team played their balls off--one of the best efforts I have seen at any level ever--while at the same time both Bud and Lefty had career games. I think Tech both outplayed and outschemed the Buckeyes. So maybe I kinda agree with you.
Even if we get smacked in this game... Tennessee entered the year Top 10 and a legit title contender, and we are in our 2nd game under a new coaching staff after spending the last 3 years hovering around .500. This is a game we're supposed to lose, and we're supposed to lose by a lot. A loss, even if its by a lot, won't move the needle on the rebuild, as long as we keep improving as the season progresses. If we're hanging 30 a game in late October into November in the meat of ACC play making life difficult for everyone on our schedule, nobody is going to remember what happened in this game should we lose.
The only thing that will set us back is if we come out throwing up a Stiney/O'Cain dud of an offensive clusterfuck for 60 minutes. But I don't see that happening, I have faith this coaching staff can find something kind of offensive game plan that will work, even if its not enough to win.
This is nowhere near the level of blow up that happened at UVa last week. They got humiliated by a team any FBS opponent should beat. You don't get a pass for choking on your own spit against a FCS team. You have more scholarship players and higher overall talent than your opponent, and even if you spend all game sputtering, you should win by double digits. They didn't just lose but they got blown out and humiliated by an opponent with much less of a prestige than they have.
I agree with the majority of what you said, so leg. Btw, you forgot to add Newsome in there also.
*sigh*
Lmao, gotta give blame-er, "credit" where "credit" is due.
You're gonna make French break out in hives.
I completely forgot about this. One of the best memes on TKP ever.
This makes me laugh and cry at the same time.
Stiney/O'Cain dud of an offensive clusterfuck for 60 minutes
I thought that was my offense?
Stiney/O'Cain...
via GIPHY
Maybe I'm the exception here, but as someone who did not grow up in VA or TN, I really have no connection to this game whatsoever. It's not at the same level as Bama/BoiseSt/OSU/LSU from the past decade.
I don't care about TN beyond that they are the opponent we play this week. I don't care about Bristol because I'm not a NASCAR fan. I just want to see the Hokies win. Come Monday, win or lose, it's just another game to me.
I want a win so that we can start moving back into being a top team nationally. The opponent is irrelevant.
Tenn = opponent
Tenn = irrelevant
lolz...I see you
Bragging rights.
Recruits.
HokieGirl's sanity.
Fuente's perfect record.
My bets.
Couple things we can lose.
Yes, just that stuff, a game, our pride, our tears, and our reputation.
That's all.
We are NEVER in a "nothing to lose" territory. Losing always creates a missed opportunity, and I want a football team that see's EVERY game as a "must win"
You may be looking at it too literal. OP was referencing from a perception standpoint. Our team looks at every game as an opportunity to prove something. But as a fanbase, we can look at it through a realistic lens and say if we lose this, what are the repercussions. As long as we don't get our ass handed to us, the repercussions are minimal for the most part. We are not in a NCG hunt this season. It will not change our ability to win the division. On a bigger scale, by losing, our season is not lost, our credibility is not lost in this case, and Fuente isn't getting the Bronco Mendenhall treatment on Sunday
I think losing this game but winning 8 or 9 overall is better than winning it and losing 6
Spoken like a fan with experience
I was at anOSU 2014....and ECU
Yeah that season was fun.......
Of note, the college football schedule blows this weekend.
Everyone will be watching our game.
And when we win, we will be able to flip over the the Oregon/UVA game on ESPN at 10:30!
Ugh. It really does. Highlights are Louisville v Syracuse Friday night, our game, and....well, you could watch something around noon, and something after us...
Pitt and Penn State play this weekend... but that's a nooner
I mean I'm looking forward to watching loluva at Oregon
Listen up MFers we are going to win this game on the big stage.
Refs are right and on ABC.
All the crap we saw against LU will go away. We have experienced guys on the O.
Bud does not give a shit!
Bud will chew Smokey's balls off and spit them out on asphalt.
Attendance will favor the rocky hump but we have Skipper.
General Lee was from VA!!!!!!!
I don't know what you guys are talking about. We have legit NFL talent on both sides of the ball. Loads of experience in both sides of the ball as well. I'm calling it right now, Henri Murphy is about to be introduced to the college football world. I believe our defense is better and our offense is on par with what UT is fielding. As long as we get to blocking properly this won't be any problem. We win this and we're ranked next week. None of this "I expect to lose this game" crap around me. I'm a winner until proven loser, I fully expect to win this shit. I'll see y'all in EE lot at 7 am. LETS GO HOKIES!
I disagree on your D being better. VT finished last year 44th in total D. UT finished 36th and defended more snaps.
I know that's last year, but UT returns almost all it's production and up graded with hiring Bob Shoop.
I see it as UT having a slight edge in defense. What has happened with VT to give you confidence otherwise?
1. Bud Foster
2. None of our defensive ends are currently playing with two broken hands
3. Legit 5* DT (and human wrecking ball) Tim Settle
4. Our secondary last year was a jumble of injury and inexperience, with guys playing whatever position needed to be covered due to depth problems. This is no longer the case.
1. Bud Foster - was there last year and fielded the #44 team in total defense.
Bob Shoop- fielded the #14 team in total defense at a rebuilding Penn St. Is taking over a D that finished 36 and returning it's production. He coached top 25 defenses @ Vandy, let that sink in, VANDY!!!
Sorry, on paper, advantage UT.
2. Sorry, the broken hands reference went over my head. Barnett and Vareen are two of the best. It's possible for Barnett to match Reggie White's school record for sacks this year.
3. We have some decent but yet unproven talent at DT. I'll concede that point
4. We have one of the best lock down corners in college football and a first round draft pick, Cam Sutton. Who you got?
My point is that our defense last year was an anomaly.
Bud Foster has shown time and time again that he can introduce wrinkles and totally new looks that throw opponents off. You'll note that he took some ideas that had been around a while, put them together in a pretty interesting way, and knocked off eventual national champion Ohio State. The man is brilliant and he is an X-factor.
I'm not comparing Tenn's D vs. VT's D. That doesn't make sense. I'm answering the question of why VT fans have greater confidence in their defense relative to one that was, for us, ranked very low last year.
Broken hands = Dadi Nicolas. Everyone expected a huge year out of him. But he was busted up for most of the season and was unfortunately a pretty big liability in key spots.
Gotcha. I was responding to the statement that VT had the better D.
One should never underestimate Bud Foster's D.
Yeah, in re-reading the thread I can see I approached it a bit differently. I think it's a situation where we simply don't know, but Hokies fans are feeling good. On paper, you've got the talent. But then too, for Vols fans, that's been true forever (all in good fun, it's almost game day :) D-coordinators don't come better than Foster, irrespective of Shoop's success elsewhere. And it really comes down to talent + scheme. VT has made its living off of under-recruited kids that fit the scheme. Execution at a high level beats raw talent. So I think our fan base is feeling anywhere between "we've got a chance" and "why the hell is Tennessee so overrated?" As for myself, I tend toward the former, but I can see why there are those among us who are feeling pretty good right now.
In about 36 hours, we'll start to settle the matter. Here's to a good game, no injuries, and a memorable experience for the guys on the field.
Bud Foster has out schemed some teams absolutely stacked with NFL talent in the past, so I would never count him out, especially in big games. The fact we were able to hold onto him through this transition was a friggen coup. He is to the college defense what a guy like Chip Kelly was to the college offense. He'll take inferior talent and have it pistol whip a stronger team. Our issue has always been that our offense could never, ever give him any semblance of support.
But here's the thing... now we have a defensive coach who can take inferior talent and turn it into an elite unit and paired it with an offensive coach who has proven he can take inferior talent and turn it into an elite unit. Sky's the limit should they be able to both get us rolling at the same time.
VT definitely on an upward trajectory. I
I saw how much Dadi dominated in the preseason and it makes wonder what he could have done if he were healthy last year.
1. Shoop is historically good and you can't compare defenses directly (or predict future performance), but let's just say I'll take my established guy over your "new" coordinator who has yet to complete a season at UT.
4. I didn't take the time to make a table, but history favors VT in Passing Def. and Pass Efficiency Def. as well (excepting 2015 as an anomaly, but still top 50). You may not know our corners, but we are known for our corners.
2016 VT-9, Tenn-49*
*after one game
Who do we got? Greg stroman, Adonis alexander, mook reynolds, and a 6'5" freak of nature LB named edmunds. You're talking to #DBU, do you really want to talk smack to THIS school about defensive backs?
Its All in good fun. My opinion is that VTs D is better, I'm in no way implying UT has a bad D. But in BUD we trust, I personally would have felt worse losing Foster than Beamer last year, You did see that our defense is playing more like 2004 instead of 2015 man coverage 100% of the time right? But it's okay, I want UT to dismiss BUD and our D, plays right into our hands.
You play to win the game.
So I've been reading on the 247 message boards that VT is getting a little shafted when it comes to the joint decisions at Bristol. It's been compared to "basically a home game for UT"
Our boys are certainly taking it to heart and this will make a win that much sweeter
Again it's #sauces from people close to the process
Can you expand? What kind of decisions?
Quotes from chat but, again this is what someone is saying
"Just in a nutshell. If the Bristol reps ask VT and UT a question. They are going with UTs answer. Even the damn video of them painting the end zones the other day were slanted to to UT."
"The most obvious, facility wise, is everything in the endzones for both the fans and players. Locker rooms (VT half the size), seats (VT has half the endzone seats due to cabanas), VIP tent (Tenn gets to walk the length of the tent with their fans as part of their walk out) etc etc. as you said all promos and access slant Tenn also."
-It's very similar behind the scenes.
"To reiterate UT is basically calling all the shots when it comes to joint decisions. Their fans will have a better experience, better seats in some areas etc etc etc etc. I will explain more after the game"
One person's take on this
Regarding the paint, the VT paint crew did the field at Bristol.
They did the VT endzones and Tenn crew did the Tenn endzones.
Honestly, we have been in the "nothing to lose territory" after the 10-win streak ended. Since the wheels came off and the rotten core exposed it was time for go for broke football to get things back on track. however, as you are alluding to the reasons why are different for Beamer and Fuente. Beamer had nothing to lose because he was at the end of his run and was trying to get back to relevance in his final years. He had nothing to lose by making changes and going for broke, provided he felt they were positive changes. He could have brought spread offense to VT then and been justified. Fuente on the other hand has nothing to lose in that he is at the start of his journey, and making a splash win at the gate would make a big impact. But he has nothing to gain from losing big, so his agenda needs to be play his style of football, score points, keep in the game until the end or flat out win.
JMHO - but we do have something to lose - and that's credibility. At the moment, with a new coach and a so far mainly successful unveiling of the new regime, we're starting an upward trajectory. In this game, we don't necessarily need to win, but we need to be perceived as having had a chance to win it. We need to be competitive.
A win does more, but to maintain credibility that we are back on the rise and good place for top recruits to go, we need to show up and play well in this game. If it turns into a meltdown or an LSU game style beat down, the rest of the college football world will think we're not on the upward track yet. And they'll be right.
Been a while since I stopped by but best wishes for your game today.