As many of you, I've been utterly frustrated at how inconsistent officiating has been this year. Especially with calls made on the field that aren't subject to review (holding/PI/late hits/targeting to name a few). I heard a sound bit on NPR's morning edition last week titled "NFL Referees Influenced By Coaches' And Players' Sideline Yelling" that was very, very interesting. The link is below but here's a piece from it:
"So Lopez, Steve, measured how often these kinds of judgment calls go in favor of the team whose coaches are on the sideline closest to where the potential penalty is taking place. He finds referees are much more likely to make calls that comply with what people nearest to them are demanding."
It screams Pat Narduzzi to me. I hate when coaches and players do it, especially to the low levels from the Pitt game. However, studies show it works and I believe it 100%. The element of human bias present in officiating can't be understated, which is why I think coaches should be more heavily penalized for such antics. Thoughts?
http://www.npr.org/2016/11/03/500480083/study-nfl-referees-a-influenced-...
Comments
Its a pretty established fact that home teams get better treatment from referees. See this study here. In terms of fines and penalties for coaches and sidelines, I think the procedures are in place, but the use of these procedures isn't consistent. Some referees let themselves get walked all over, while others overreact like crazy and throw people out of games (See Joe West, MLB Umpire). Really, its a question of consistent enforcement of the already existing rules.
Perfect.
I will never not crack up any time I see that commercial. Also, as valuable as Mr. Side Judge's home experiences were for him, I'd be deeply concerned if he ever needed to tune out "would it hurt for you to say that you love me once in a while" on the football field.
As a coach, I'd be throwing that around all the damn time to the officials on my side. Like MLB managers that yell at the umpires with utter nonsense.
More perfect!
When I was refereeing, the more a coach yelled, the less I listened to them. It was always a little dangerous, because there is a chance one ends up ignoring a request for a time-out. So, was I influenced? Hell yes. But not in the way this thread is leaning.
I never actually flagged anyone on the sideline, but I probably should have.
Likewise for me in soccer. Especially when you're the AR on the coaches' sideline. The more a coach yelled the less likely I was to give him a 50-50 call. If he calmly came over and asked me about a call, or asked me to watch for something then I would listen and probably give him that call the next time I saw it. Refs are humans too, and usually we played competitive sports, one thing competitors don't like is to be shown up.
I totally understand where you're coming from and I understand why these refs are more likely to be influenced towards the yellers. I think the difference is video. I think the element of seeing the game replayed adds a bit of terror in the refs mind. So the yelling could be supported by video later and maybe it's best that you keep the person yelling happy to avoid people reviewing you on film later. Most people (myself included) would think that they would be better than that, but it's really hard to tell what would be like under that kind of pressure
Agree with both of the above. If a coach comes to me with a legitimate safety issue we may have missed, you bet your ass I'm paying attention to that. If he comes to me as a raving lunatic, he's got a very short time (usually depending on what kind of week I've had) to calm down and stop acting like a toddler. From what I've noticed, if an official is clear about expectations before the game and is quick to throw a sideline warning when needed (first one carries literally no penalty, it's just a warning. How the Nard dog didn't even pick up one of those is beyond me), everyone has a much more enjoyable time. I'm positive officials can be influenced, but more importantly is they're the ones who can influence their sideline as well.
Agreed. Basketball coaches get T'd up all the time, can't think of a football game where that's happened (except for JUCO game on Last Chance U). There was a lot of hate for Narduzzi two weeks ago, but, IMHO, most of it should've been directed at the officials.
I agree refs didn't call crap but everyone was hating on Narduzzi because he had no legitimate arguments to be whining like a child all game when we were getting all the no calls
I mean, if the ref's did their job, Narduzzi's whining would've been a non-issue. Instead, it influenced the game.
Jimbo got an unsportsmanlike when he lost his mind during their game with Clemson.
I hate to bring up soccer but Jose Mourinho a really prominent coach in soccer kind of saw the flip side of it Yes you can influence referees and officials to some extent but its not a sustainable practice eventually the refs get fed up with everything and stop giving you those calls. Eventually the practice comes back to haunt you.
Alex Ferguson basically bullied Premier League refs both directly and indirectly for years, to his gain.
I'll say this, I think it was Duke's last touchdown drive. A couple plays in the Duke crowd and sideline was pissed that a PI was not called and showed their displease. Guess what happened on the next pass play...pass interference defense.
Yes! I noticed that too. At the Russell Athletic Punt Fest I had first row seats and towards the end of the game the official nearest me missed a bad PI call. I let him know that he should get on his knees because he was blowing the game. He shook his head and gave me a smirk. Next play the yellow flag came out against Rutgers. Just saying......
"Dammit, now that dick behind me is gonna think he got in my head and made me throw a flag on this blatant PI foul."
- That official, almost certainly
The real victory was that he acknowledged me, and in a positive way. I guess he'd never heard that particular heckle.
I'm actually somewhat annoyed when that happens. Not because the crowd affects me (it's actually quite a bit of fun to hear how creative people can be with their insults and taunts. I was really proud of this one guy for correctly identifying me as the back judge instead of "hey ref" while clamoring for PI once), but because it totally looks that way, even if the flag I'm throwing is for the easiest, most blatantly-obvious foul in the world.
I've posted this before but when we last played Nebraska on the road, Bo Pelini's ranting and raving finally got a flag for unsportsmanlike conduct and if I remember right, it was instrumental in keeping the game-winning drive going. I just don't understand why they let football coaches, both college & pro, get by with so much.
Refs should definitely exercise their right to flag coaches more often. More importantly, I think it should be a rule that only team captains and coaches can talk to or make gestures toward the ref and zero debate with the call on the field from players. I get sick and tired of receivers begging for PI and qbs begging for late hits.
Fuck Pat Narduzzi.
While I think several of his antics on the sideline should have drawn a flag, the fact that his behavior was pre-meditated to go with his game plan (or lack there of) to mask the enormous DB to WR mismatch was worse.
I understand why Jimbo got the bigger fine. Jumbo directly insulted the referees at his post game press conference, and there was really no choice.
I actually expected Narduzzi to get away scot-free. But to me, the fact he got fined made a bigger statement than the huge fine Jimbo got.
That entire crew of refs had no idea how to handle that situation and I feel like the ACC generating the fine on Narduzzi was the green light to call him out during a game. His actual statements were much more tame than Jimbo's; and although Jimbo didn't agree with the call, he was clearly more interested in their explanation than Pat ever pretended to be.
The ACC referees finally calling a penalty on Boulware for his despicable plays are also a good sign in my opinion. It's long overdue, and looking more each week like we're going to be playing Clemson.
I think we're seeing a few newer crews lacking confidence, but some of these rules (targeting, low blocks, exactly what constitutes a catch still) are less concrete in definition than they should be.
I'm more upset with the replay's inability to correct calls than anything at this point. I think improper replay calls are affecting games outcomes as much as inconsistent officiating, and that should be the easiest thing to fix.
Hey Brock, did I miss something?
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Where/when was this verified?
Thanks
"Fact" was a poor word choice. The only thing we could verify is his unwavering verbal support for the insistence on statistically-unsuccessful man coverage.
Pre-meditated is an opinion, not a fact.
OK thanks. I thought so as well. If you at look a replay you will see a big bald-headed guy mirror LeDouche the entire came. In one case when he is screaming at the ref, this guy comes up and stands over the ref and then says something and LeDouche was away. Seemed like the guy was there to warn/stop LeDouche whenever he got to the "line" and was near getting a penalty.
Interesting, I would think the opposite. The more someone whined and bitched the less likely I would give in to them on an iffy call.
I'm guessing it works up to the point where the league fines the coach/player. Nards is a good example. In the game vs VT he acts like a maniac and gets a fine for post game comments. Next week, his DB's aren't grabbing the jersey of the Miami players and subsequently get torched. Nards' behavior on the sideline was completely different. I'm guessing that the ACC told him the temper tantrums weren't appropriate and that his DB's would get flagged for similar behavior.
not if you are rex ryan. shesh that was horrible last night. idk what was worse. the seahawks refs or the pitt refs. maybe the same guys.
Well, there are a bunch of talking heads calling for Walt Anderson a decade plus long referee to be fired because of last night. Didn't call the roughing the kicker, made the kicker go off the field on a field goal play because of the roughing, and then they stood on the ball and let the clock run to zero basically and a delay was called because the referee didn't move out of the way.
That was about as poorly-officiated as it gets right there. The fact that it occurred at the expense of the visiting team I'm sure is not a fantastic look for the NFL and that crew.
The sideline where the penalty is taking place....maybe they just have a better view!