USSoccer.com: U.S. SOCCER PARTS WAYS WITH JURGEN KLINSMANN
U.S. Soccer President Sunil Gulati announced today that Jurgen Klinsmann has been relieved of his duties as head coach of the U.S. Men's National Team and Technical Director for U.S. Soccer.
Gulati will conduct a media teleconference call Tuesday afternoon to discuss the change. Details will be announced in the near future.
Klinsmann began his tenure as head coach on July 29, 2011, and compiled a 55-27-16 record during his tenure. In 2013, he led the team on a record-setting 12-game winning streak, the longest in program history. The 16 victories and .761 winning percentage in 2013 are all-time U.S. MNT records for a calendar year. In 2014, the team advanced out of the "Group of Death" and reached the Round of 16 in the FIFA World Cup. Most recently, the MNT finished fourth in the 2016 Copa America Centenario held in the United States.
Can't really say I'm surprised after the way the team has looked recently. I still hope they can keep him in the fold in some role in talent acquisition, as he really did a lot to bring some truly talented youngsters up, but its all but assured he's going to end up in the Premier League as soon as possible.
As for who's next, it certainly sounds like it'll be Bruce Arena, which I'm not so sure is the best idea due to his previous insistence that our national team players need to be developing their game in the US rather than against the elite talents in Europe.
Update: Looks like Bruce Arena has in fact been tabbed as the next head coach of the US men's soccer team.
Update 2: US Soccer Announces Bruce Arena as next Head Coach
U.S. Soccer President Sunil Gulati has named Bruce Arena as the new head coach of the U.S. Men's National Team. The most decorated head coach in American soccer history, Arena most famously guided the U.S. to its best finish in the World Cup in more than 80 years with a quarterfinal appearance in 2002 and returns to the job where he amassed the most wins of any coach in U.S. MNT history.
Arena, who will assume the role on Thursday, Dec. 1, will be formally introduced during a teleconference with U.S. Soccer President Sunil Gulati on Tuesday at 2 p.m. ET.
"When we considered the possible candidates to take over the Men's National Team at this time, Bruce was at the top of the list," said Gulati. "His experience at the international level, understanding of the requirements needed to lead a team through World Cup qualifying, and proven ability to build a successful team were all aspects we felt were vital for the next coach. We all know Bruce will be fully committed to preparing the players for the next eight qualifying games and earning a berth to an eighth-straight FIFA World Cup in Russia."
"Any time you get the opportunity to coach the National Team it's an honor," said Arena. "I'm looking forward to working with a strong group of players that understand the challenge in front of them after the first two games of the Hex. Working as a team, I'm confident that we'll take the right steps forward to qualify for the 2018 World Cup in Russia."
Comments
I defended Jurgen for quite awhile, but the recent form of the team is just... indefensible. Should have known better than to get behind a former Spud. You're right though, he's got a knack for locating talent, just hasn't been able to get them to play together, particularly in defense.
I'm not at all thrilled at the prospect of Bruce Arena though. Should that happen, he's going to have to win me over because I do not see that as being the right solution for this team.
Yeah, the thought of Arena leading the team again is... its not a pretty one.
He's the kind of guy who MLS is trying to promote into that role who would reward players for their work in MLS, potentially to the detriment of players who could be playing in top tier leagues in Europe. Whereas Klinsmann wouldn't start someone like Pulisic, Arena might not even have him dress.
Bruce Arena led the U.S. to their best result in a World Cup that wasn't played in 1930. Now is not the time to experiment. Now is the time to get results in CONCACAF. Arena will get results in CONCACAF. It's not time to fudge around. Good hire for me.
Was sitting in on a meeting when I got this notification. Not sure how I feel about Arena taking over but it's a we will wait and see deal. I just want to see sensible formations that cater more to our strengths rather than putting our defenders on islands for 90 straight minutes,
Count me as another suspect of Bruce Arena being a good answer here. I would rather see us pursue someone with more recent success in Europe or an up and coming talent developer from South America. Being good in MLS is equivalent to winning at Double A in the minors. I really wasn't a fan of his the last time he coached the US either so I admit to some bias there as well. I thought many of those teams underperformed in the early 2000's for the US.
Interesting that people seem down on the possibility of Arena at the helm.
I'm not sure the job is all that comparable now to his first stint, as things have changed drastically (for the better, IMO) in the decade he's been away from the USMNT. There's a bigger and better talent pool, plus there's more attention on the game in the US. Plus, I think his time with the Galaxy has shown that he finds a way to put talent together into a coherent structure.
the problem is that the LA galaxy is hands down the most talented team in the MLS (totally disregarding the talent gap in the MLS and how strategies dont work there) the US is far from as talented as just about any European roster. He wont be able to out talent every other team with the best players in the league. I just dont understand why we're moving in this direction, and i'll be absolutely flabbergasted if he gets rid of the whole "go to europe to be successful" mantra, because that is the freaking truth. Look at the world powers in south america and africa....where do all of their best players play? EUROPE.
It cant be that hard to put talent on the field in the MLS for the Galaxy with the significant pay difference between their team and the rest of the league. There are three MLS teams(Toronto, NYCFC, LA) with compensation at or around $20M, the next closest team is Orlando at $11.5M. Orlando is all revolving around paying Kaka, who is getting $7.1M of the team's $11.5M.
No shocker, NYCFC finished second in the East this year, Toronto third, and LA finished third in the West. Also no real surprise that since salary was destabilized in MLS in 2005, LA has won 4 of the 11 MLS Cups and lost another in penalty kicks. The allocation of talent to the top teams just continues the trend in MLS.
Bruce Arena also coached UVA in soccer for 18 years. Just throwing that out there. No me gusta
Tienes razon mi amigo, mucha razon.
I'm not good on the coaches, but Arena sounds familiar - was he a previous USA coach? Womens team?
US Mens coach from 1998-2006
Why are we re-hiring a coach we let go? Surely we have the $$ to go get proven talent?
I played against his son Kenny in high school ball when TJ played Oakton. Kind of a d!ck but not a bad player. Late 90's-2000.
Wait...if you played against Kenny while he was at Oakton, that had to be in spring 98 and/or 99. I fucking went to high school with you, dude. What year did you graduate?
I graduated TJ in the class of 2000. You went there?
Wait, do I know you guys? I was class of 2001
Ha nice. I played soccer all four years. Got into, and out of, a lot of trouble.
Yearbook pic?
Ah, you young pups. I graduated in 98, so we overlapped. But I will admit, my senior year I was dating a girl that went to Herndon and I discovered numerous ways to evade the attendance and security rules. The attendance lady knew me by name, and not because I was a conscientious helper.
I played lacrosse, which is a combination of the little rich kids and juvenile delinquents. I did not qualify for the former, so I was forced to become the latter.
Ah, then you must know my very good friend, Wade Barnes
Were you also friends with Billy Stables? How about Frank Ring? Joe Trailer? Diego Horserelatedbuilding?
Ah yes, Diego Horserelatedbuilding, I knew him well. At least, before the accident.
YES, I remember Wade, played with him. Didn't he end up at a military academy?
Naval Academy
I think Klinsmann had a good overall vision for U.S. Soccer, but his in-game management, and roster selections was just not good, or consistent, and he didn't have an assistant like Jogi Low to take care of it.
Arena at least will be consistent, and will have a defined style for the team to play. He just has to get us to the World Cup, and he should be able to do that with this player pool. I'm excited to see what the teams he calls in and line ups look like.
Thank you so much US Soccer for firing Jurgen. His image is glorified due to our overrated 2014 WC. We haven't taken any positive steps since firing Bradley. Hopefully Arena can inject a much needed boost into the team or else we will continue to be the laughing stock that gets humiliated 4-0 by Costa Rica.
sorry but overrated 2014 wc? what about the copa america run? in every competitive competition we've been in we have totally exceeded expectations! where does klinsmann fall flat to you? the all important friendly matches? I mean of course we dont look as good in those we're experimenting. How do you get better in soccer? Experiment and tinker with the roster. The costa rica game was ugly yes, but my god dont let that tarnish his reputation
Yes, overrated 2014 WC. We squeaked by a bad Ghana team, drew against an average Portugal team with a severely injured Ronaldo, were dominated by Germany, and were VERY lucky to take Belgium to OT. We were flat out dominated by Germany and Belgium. People make such a big deal out of that World Cup where if you actually look at it as a whole, we weren't that good. The Copa? We didn't have a challenging draw. We got beat by Colombia and thrashed by Argentina. If exceeding expectations is beating Costa Rica, Peru, and Ecuador, the expectations are far too low.
Hate to break it to you dude, but Portugal just won the Euro last year with the same exact roster (minus one talented youth product in sanches) Ghana was not that bad. I think the wind was taken out of their sails after our game. See their recent success in tournaments. Yeah we were dominated by world champions germany. score line was 1-0 though, ask any brazilian and I'm sure they'd be happy to take that scoreline, that german team was an absolute JUGGERNAUT. Belgium was pretty fuggin good too, although I agree I think we respected them to much. If theres one thing I had a problem with in Klinnsmanns tenure it was over respecting our opponents but if you want to sit here and tell me that our roster could hold a candle to that roster you'd be sadly mistaken. I could name 11 players on Belgium's team that would be considered hands down the best player for the US team. To top it off we were missing our ONLY striker worth noting on the roster at that point, we were incredibly thin at the position and the injury to altidore really hurt. At that point we were playing with house money, we punched way above our weight class in that tournament and were given 0 chance to advance. I more remember that tournament for completely outplaying two very talented teams despite losing a crucial player to our game plan and winning one of them that since as long as I can remember had completely had our number. The US getting outplayed by juggernauts is nothing new, look up some advanced metrics by our deep runs into the world cup, we parked the bus and booted it long. That is not a sustainable strategy and will never win you a tournament. Likewise even on our bad days we lost to the eventual world champion by a goal, and a VERY talented belgium team by a goal.
Copa America we had a tricky group and were once again picked to not advance, we started sluggish and rebounded spectacularly against tricky teams. we have NEVER won at costa rica, this isnt a recent thing. They're a pretty solid team. Peru, we wiped the floor with them. We then beat a really underappreciated Ecuador team without bobby wood. That team has given south american teams FITS in the last few world cup qualifiers, they beat Chile right before the copa america in a WCQ 3-0, Chile went on to win the copa america. They're a good competitive team. Yeah once more we got blown out by Argentina, but that comes once more to my point of over respecting our opponent. We got down early and didn't rebound well. You're severely underrating Ecuador and vastly underrating the rebuilding project klinnsman was handed. Name one player outside of bradley in the age group of 25-30 that has developed well, that is the reason we are struggling right now
Say what you want that 2014 Portugal WC team wasn't good. Belgium and Germany are much better teams obviously but it doesn't hide the fact that we were dominated. You can watch the games and understand that. Yes it's nice to keep the score respectable but anyone who watched the games knew Germany or Belgium could've both been 4-0 losses. And Ecuador isn't that good. They have Antonio Valencia, who else? We should wipe the floor with them. I show gradual improvement in Klinsmanns five years only to be shattered with a mind boggling, terrible loss. Sure 2014 World Cup made us look better to the world becsuse we squeaked out some lucky results but we followed it up in 2015 with GC loss to Jamaica, and 2015 Confed Cup Playoff loss to Mexico. Yes advancing to Semis of the Copa is nice, and you didn't expect us to get through a group with Colombia, Peru, and Costa Rica. Ecuador isn't good. They're average. We had literally beat them a week before the tournament started. And we followed up a somewhat successful summer by getting beat by Mexico and thrashed by Costa Rica.
Also Belgium is my favorite national team so I am fully aware of their squad. They have great individual talent but are somewhat incapable of putting it together as a team.
There's no doubt that our recent results are very, very disappointing. But I maintain that our offensive ball movement and approach to the game has been much much better under Jurgen than it had been under Bradley and Arena v.01. A lot of that is down to the type of players we've been fielding (again, Jurgen's influence is big there) and a lot is due to his desire for a better team in possession than he inherited.
My issues with Jurgen stem from his unwillingness to settle into a lineup/team makeup long enough to build some chemistry. That's usually the biggest issue any national team faces and he was doing himself no favors by drastically changing his lineups from game to game.
to think were going to go in and outplay the big dogs is exactly the problem though. our talent just isnt even close enough to be competitive regularly with either of those teams and frankly protgual and ghana as well. all of those teams have much more talented players on their teams. the best we can hope for is a super human effort by somebody to squeak past them. all of our big wins in major tournaments over the years have basically been that. tim howard or keller putting the team on their back and a fluky goal up top...it happens but until our technical ability catches up (which is what klinnsman was pushing) well never be able to consistently compete with the germanys and the brazils.
Ecuador is a very solid team that frankly i believe were on level pegging with. they compete with much better teams regularly than in the concacaaf and are very competitive and make it to world cups. both valencias are really good and jefferson montero is a dangerous player as well. the jamaica loss was bad ill give you that, but at least were seeing an integration of youth being tried out. the copa america was pretty good we played costa rica off the pitch who has been a bit of a boogey team for us, beat peru pretty thoroughly and beat a solid ecuador team and lost to two vastly more talented teams in columbia and Argentina. the ugly part for me was the nature of the loss to argentina and klinnsmans apparent comments to the us soccer director claiming the gold cup was rigged.
the loss to Mexico while it sucked isnt as ugly as everyone made it out to be, frankly i think well still advance out of the hex just fine and i think klinnsman was using it as an opportunity to test out how much pulisic could handle in the #10 role obviously it didnt work out to hot and he switched it after about 30 min and outplayed mexico the rest of the way. if it had worked and pulisic had shined wed all be talking about how awesome wed be for the next 10 years with such a talented player at the most important position on the field. but it didnt and klinnsman switched it up, then we lost on a stupid player mistake on a corner.
the costa rica game was super ugly though and should be held against him. really his 2 worst results to me were the jamaica loss and the costa rica loss, losing to costa rica isnt that big of a deal but the nature and meltdown of the team was
to each is own. i respect your points.
agreed! gotta ask you seem like an educated soccer fan. how do you feel about arenas? i hope we dont revert to old US strategy
i am very sorry hahahaha i just saw this for the first time.. and im not sure yet.. i have always like bruce as a person, my coach from my u14-u18 years was good friends with bruce so ive met with him several times and he definitely knows his stuff im just not sure if that gets through to a 25 year old rising international player like it did to me as a 16 year old player. i would prefer someone better for the USMNT but you gotta play your cards i guess. not many other options. my dream hire would be eddie howe from bournemouth, but he looks destined for a bigger job in europe.
eddie howe is an amazing coach. i really hope that guy gets a good shot somewhere, what hes done with bournemouth is nothing short of amazing
Yup, I absolutely hate arsenal, I'm a Chelsea supporter, but he would be the right hired to replace Wenger if they want somebody who already understands English football. If they chose to look abroad, they should go for Allegei or Tuchel, maybe even Sampaoli.
The WC run wasn't overrated at all imo. We did the best with the squad we had (which really could've been a lot better, especially on the horrendous back line). The Copa however you're absolutely correct. We should be expected to dust teams like Paraguay, and Ecuador. Any place short of third should be viewed as a loss. I don't think Klinsmann had a bad idea of what type of players we should be going after in order to succeed, but he showed total incompetence when narrowing down his squad and making in game substitutions.
Big fan of firing Klinsmann, hate the idea of Bruce Arena leading the squad. Who do you get instead? I have no idea. Slim pickings.
You just answered your own question. Arena is the man for the job because no one else is out there.
The 2014 WC turned out better than it should have. Klinsmann is a good program builder but I'm not sure he's a great coach. To analogize it to college football, he's a brilliant AD but maybe not a great head coach. I have not payed much attention to the recent performances by the team, but I think his firing will set us back by at least another WC.
Like many of the others before me in this thread, I highly dislike the idea of Arena taking over. I can see him calling Landon up (please God no), and not playing our international players as much (so say goodbye to Brooks, Pulisic, Jones, Johnson and Wood), which is asinine to me. I do not understand why he thinks it isn't worthwhile to play with the best in Europe...but I digress.
I personally think we need to get rid of Gulati. I think we need someone else at the helm of US soccer but I'm not sure who. A friend of mine suggested giving Klinsmann Gulati's job and bring in Marcelo Bielsa to coach the team (obviously this is a dream, would be great if it actually happened). I think Klinsmann would be a good fit to take Gulati's job, or at least in some developmental capacity. Some other candidates I like besides hiring Arena would be promoting Tab Ramos or Andi Herzog. Also, Miguel Herrera has expressed interest before in leading the USA. That would be interesting. Like Warthog said above, the pickings are kinda slim. Not hopeful for the future. I'm doubting if we qualify for Russia.
Where is this idea that Arena isn't going to play Brooks, Pulisic, Johnson and Wood coming from? He's not an idiot. Those are four of our best players (tbf, I'm not that high on Wood...think Morris is a better option). This idea that Arena is going to stay with MLS players is unfounded.
He took 11 of the 23 from international teams in 2002. (Of those from home, Cobi Jones, Landon, Beasley, Mastroeni, Mathis...all top 23 players in the country.)
He took 12 of the 23 from international teams in 2006. (Vied as a failure, but not sure that is totally fair. Good group and overrated team)
In 2014, Klinsmann took 13 of the 23 from international teams, fwiw.
Now, do I think we might see less dual nationals? Sure, you can make a point there, but this notion that Arena will stick to MLS players is absurd.
Arena has made comments in the past questioning foreign born American players and stating his preference for players to come from MLS. Link
This is exactly to what I was referring to. Perhaps it was a bit harsh and unfounded to say he won't play them at all, but what he has said in the past has been clear.
Believe he was talking about the soccer culture. Showing how we need to advance our domestic league and get it on part with the European leagues, and that simply cannot happen if our best players have no desire to play there because they were born in Berlin. I didn't take them as saying that foreign born players are bad? Ernie Stewart was one of the greats for Arena in his first run. Was born in the Netherlands.
He'll play the best players, foreign born or not. I think he would help our domestic league if our best players were born here because it would mean a better chance of staying here to play professionally.
Professional Soccer in the US is so far away from being competitive internationally that it isn't even funny. If we are serious about even trying, the first thing that needs to happen is that the MLS needs to relinquish its stranglehold on every team and let them operate independently of each other, and not intentionally steer players to certain teams for whatever reason. Allow teams to spend to whatever means they can to fill out their rosters to the best of their abilities based on the earnings they have. Oh, and merge all the main professional leagues (MLS, NASL, USL, etc) together into one main professional organization and introduce relegation to the lot, with the first year leagues being set up based on whatever league you're currently in.
Do that, and turn professional soccer in the US into something that actually acts like one of the premier leagues in the world, and maybe then we can take professional soccer in the US seriously. Until then, its just a league for retirees and guys who either haven't gotten the offer to play in South America or Europe, or for those who did and couldn't cut it.
While I agree with your premise above, I just dont see relegation working in the US unfortunately. In Europe it works because soccer many times is the top or only sport in town so they consistently draw sellout crowds at almost every level. In the US even our top market teams are only able to draw about a quarter what the top tier Premier Leagues draw each game. Most US soccer specific stadiums are designed to hold less than 35K. NASL fields most times are 5K or less. The economics of relegation dont work here based on the scale of available fan bases.
I do however support getting rid of the centralized player distribution, limits on foreign players, and the salary restrictions
I would go with Tab Ramos or Andy Herzog
Maybe Ramos at some point, but please stay far away from Herzog.
Ramos probably overachieved with the U-20 World Cup squad, but there was no excuse for Herzog's U-23 team to miss the Olympics.
I don't think Bruce is the long term answer, but I think he's the best candidate for the lead-up to the next World Cup. I think you need someone who's been through the CONCACAF qualifying process, and it's even more important considering we're currently at the bottom of the standings in the hex.
we'll be fine in the hex im not concerned at all. We might have to do a play-in game vs new zealand or something but im not concerned. I'd like to go after someone like eddie howe if england doesnt give him a friggin chance
You aren't concerned at all about the hex? It isn't time to hit the panic button (yet), but we're certainly in a hole and need to get points ASAP. The hex is so grueling as far as playing locations/hostile away crowds that it's important you take care of business at home. Like I said, I'm not panicking but I think there's definitely cause for concern.
yeah im not concerned the two hardest games have passed if we lose another then ill panic. I go from 0 to panic REALLY really fast
Don't we still have a game in Mexico?
Man, he was doing ok...
yeah but we need to finish in the top 3 and get all of the bottom feeders twice to fatten ourselves up. im really not concerned at all
Do we really want to go to Russia? Wouldn't be bothered if we sit this one out
as bad as it is to say i kinda want us to go to qatar. None of the good players are going and we might have a legitimate chance at making some noise
Oh I agree that those two games were two of the hardest games on our schedule, but the hex is still very grueling and we have to play both those teams again! Like I said I'm not full on panic but I'm concerned.
Do we have the money for Jose Mourinho? Where's Bora Milutinovic when you need him?!
Sources: Bruce Arena will be the next coach of US Soccer
I legitimately hate this move.
Ugh.
Regardless of what people say, Jurgen did move parts of US soccer forward. Obviously it wasn't enough though. Arena seems like a step back as of right now.
If he can keep building the chemistry up front (and that means continuing to field Pulisic, Wood, Altidore, etc.) and fix the abysmal defense situation, I'll change my tune.
For right now I'm highly skeptical.
Jurgen did move us forward, but his ultimate problem was/is overall US based talent. When you're in the WC and don't have 1 person in the top 100 rated players in the world on your team you almost certainly not going to move pass the quarters. Name one team who made it to the semis without 1 player in the top 50-- we have NONE in the top 100.
Arena said back in 2000 that we were 4 world cups away from making a dent in the tournament - which he took a lot of flak for because no one wanted to hear we couldn't win immediately and looked at him as negative defeatist- but he was honest. His rationale was that we didn't have a US based development organization/plan to take us to the next level like virtually every other major WC team does. We have one now, but as anyone can tell by looking at our talent, that we're still not there yet and this needs more attention. Arena is the right choice for now because he truly is a good coach and understands the program and exactly what it needs. Side note-- one of my favorite quotes from his was back after the women's world cup win in 1999. When asked, "Can you learn anything from the 1999 USWMT and their historic WC win", he replied, "No, they played and couldn't beat our U17boys team, so what am I going to learn from them." He's an honest straight shooter- who does understand players need to play overseas and that we're not hungry enough...read this honest article from an interview in NY Times.
Bruce Arena
Jurgen also caught a lot of flak for saying we wouldn't win the World Cup. I actually found it really funny. A lot of the newer fans to the sport haven't quite grasped the whole picture yet.
Good post, legged.
One major aside to our talent levels is that until you regularly see Americans getting top contracts for soccer, than you are going to have a tough time pulling our most athletic kids out of the top three US sports (Football, Basketball, Baseball) all of which have much more developed salaries and especially delivery of product than does soccer in the US.
Average Salaries by Sport in US
NBA - $4.58M
MLB - $4.17M
NHL - $2.62M
NFL - $2.11M
MLS - $310K
Yes, English Premiere League and the Bundesliga pay extremely well but those contracts and games arent in front of US eyes enough. Even MLS struggles to get enough TV time, although EPL's deal with NBC is making some in roads there but it will be a long time before its on equal footing with most other sports here.
Lets face it, Americans hate ties and floppers so world soccer is hard to watch as a whole.
I always love when someone does an article of "Imagine This" where they take the top US athletes and project them on to a soccer field. Kobe Bryant as an attacking midfielder, Lebron James as a forward, Trea Turner as your burner outside midfielder, Joe Finley (6'8 NHL defenseman) as a central defense stopper, etc.
They may hate ties, but Americans who can complain about flopping in soccer but still watch NBA are full of it.
Shoot, there's even been an influx of flopping in the NFL the past several years. Not defending soccer players who flop because I hate that crap, but it's more of a convenient excuse for a lot of people who just don't like the sport for whatever reason.
NHL is the exception. They have been fining players for "embellishment" and the fines increase exponentially. I think they completely got this right and should be implemented by the pro leagues (although I don't watch NBA to know if it's happening there)
Christian Pulisic will be a top 100 player soon. Mark it down. Not sure if there's anyone else in the pipeline, however.
We have the athletes, just need to produce the goods. With the expanded scouting by the European clubs into north America, this will come.
we have some really intriguing prospects between miazga zelalem green and pulisic but i agree with you pulisic is a star in the making. i just hope his hype train doesnt slow down
We have another kid from Virginia that I have watched grow up as a neighbor and a younger brother of one of my friends - Nick Taitague. He will be turning 18 in a couple months and then signing a contract with FC Schalke.
He has been playing up in the US National team program as the starting number 10. He has been making some noise internationally and being noticed as a top 50 in the world as an 18 year old. He has been doing trials with clubs all over the world for about 3 years now.
He is a very quick, fast and technically sound player. Not a super flashy CR7 type, but a great goal scorer. He's definitely a rising star to keep up with.
Feel like this hire has to do with winning now and qualifying but we will still be searching for someone long term in the mean time. Although reports do say that we have been talking to Arena for the last year about coming back. I think we have talent but these young guys lack heart and Arena will push that. I would say only Bradley has coached our guys to play harder then Arena. Jurgen wanted us to win and win pretty all the time.
Sorry, but because of the pic, I couldn't help it
Losing Jurgen as manager is of less concern to me than losing him as Technical Director. He did a lot to find American talent in the world and make sure they play for the US (Julian Green, Pulisic, etc.). He also made a strong effort to develop consistency in coaching and tactics through the lower levels of the player pool. Even with disappointing results lately by the U-20s and 23s, it's still a good idea. I hope those two things are something Gulati and the rest of US Soccer continue and expand upon.
With that said, I hate that it didn't work out with Jurgen. His constant tinkering with personnel and formations did get a little tedious after the 2nd year, but all in all, I thought the potential was always there for us to be consistently good.
re: Bruce Arena - It's simply an uninspiring hire. I assumed it would come with an "interim" tag, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Maybe Whit could give Gulati a few pointers on how to find the perfect coach.
dont forget zelalem and miazga. we have a pretty good crop of youth products coming up that we beat out a lot of other nations for. hopefully we can get a consistent coach that knows how to utilize them properly over the next decade and a half
I'm just excited they didn't hire RichRod.
I've talked to some big money boosters at Arizona, and he's definitely safe this year and probably next. However, if he has another 2-10 (I'm already chalking up an L tomorrow against ASU) next year, he's in trouble. Thus, RichRod isn't going anywhere for the near term, I think his son just made it far in the Arizona HS playoffs as a QB, so he's quite settled in Tucson. Don't mean to kill the joke, apologies in advance.
*sigh*
Bruce Arena calls up 32 players from MLS in first squad since return to U.S.
Now, of course, I would be remiss with not following up with the next paragraph...
Now, don't get me wrong, I don't mind the fact he's trying out MLS players to see what we have stateside, but it does have me more than worried that the USSF just hired a MLS lackey who is going to favor those who play in the MLS and essentially punish those who head overseas when it comes to roster selection down the line. This was always the single biggest complaint about how he might handle the team, and to see this in the first game he's coach isn't exactly filling me with the warm fuzzies.
I don't understand what you're upset about. European players don't attend this camp. Same as last year. Who was Arena supposed to call?
They typically don't, but its rare that you don't get any. We got one player from Europe to show last time, and its known that Jurgen at least asked if we could get more. It doesn't sound like that even happened this time.
Then again, it could be that Bruce has enough faith in our overseas players that we don't need them here now. Who knows.
This is much ado about nothing.
The only other guys you might get in this window are dudes out of contract, young guys on reserve teams, or guys from teams in something like the Norwegian league that have a similar league schedule to MLS.
This has ALWAYS been a window to evaluate guys mostly from MLS. Most others just aren't available. Trying to use this list to spin a narrative that Bruce doesn't want to use players abroad is just confirmation bias.
While I agree that most international players don't attend this camp, Arena HAS been known to favor MLS players. I agree that there's *some* overreaction (not directed at anyone here, just in general), but time will tell what Arena does. I hope he succeeds and the team does well, but I'm not overly hopeful.
I'm sorry, I couldn't resist
Too early to see if this is a trend. January camp is usually all MLS since Europe is still playing. But it could become a trend for sure, so you are a little justified.
probably the most egregious thing arena has done thus far is the hiring of his assistants, who it appears were all just his assistants at LA. most notably his son who seems to have no real experience coaching professional soccer other than under his dad (and he went to uva)
I'm no Arena fan but this is how this camp has always been. Clubs in Europe hate releasing the players they're paying millions, so if they're not forced to, they don't.
I get the feeling because he called all MLS players for camp but it isn't like that list is a bunch of lackeys. Duece is injured also.
MEH.
New manager, new formation, similar results. When push comes to shove we just can't put the ball in the net.
It's a January camp. Relax and enjoy the Buzzketball.
true but if jk had this result people would be rioting...that being said, with regards to '18 i agree this doesn't really mean anything
No they wouldn't because it's a January camp and you aren't using any European or Mexican based players. Off the top of my head, no: Brooks, Johnson, Yedlin, Wood, Pulisic, Gonzalez, Gooch, Arriola, or Carter-Vickers. Players that I think will all be on next summer's roster.
If we get less than three points against Honduras and Panama, we can start to worry. Until then, chill out. Two of our toughest three games are out of the way in qualifying. We're really just three points behind our typical pace. We're fine.
like i said, im not worried about qualifying for russia
we had quite a few usmnt regulars there, and people vying for backup positions (bradley, jones, nagbe, altidore, SK, bedoya), going against what most people deemed to be serbia's "c team" after a lot of travel.
my point is that people always expected JK's teams to dominate lesser competition like this, at least that's the vibe i got. we're going to qualify for russia, but i wouldn't blame someone for having their doubts/reservations after that match.
I'm not worried per se, just not really excited about the future.
Looks like the Serbian players enjoyed the result.
As they should. 5 caps entering the game. And a draw. On a short trip with jet lag. Party up boys. Big game for them.
not dissapointed in the effort or anything but im troubled by the long ball approach again
don't worry, there's only 18 or so months of it left!
Yep. It's ugly and too easy to defend for good teams.
Hopefully it's just too early to see anything more concrete but Arena has a history.
Late getting back to this thread but after the Jamaica game, here's my takeaway:
Someone needs to get Donovan out of the booth for this brief Arena era. It's not that he's necessarily wrong, but I'm already sick of him waxing poetic about Arena and taking pot shots at Jurgen because he had a personal beef with him.
Feilhaber looks lively and I would be cool with him having a role on the squad going forward. Other than him, the only other starter that I thought made a decent case for himself was Lletget. I do think Morris will have a role but it should be as depth still.
The Zusi experiment is rough. Against a decent attacking squad he's going to be a major liability back there. But then RB has been that way for years now.
Bradley is going to be a requisite at the #6. The change in the squad from a possession standpoint was dramatic once he came on.
Gonna be real interesting once we get our Euro-based players back playing for Arena. Fabian Johnson, John Brooks, and Pulisic will all be welcome faces. Altidore should start up front and hopefully be in form for qualification.
I think we're gonna see a bond form between Pulisic, Feilhaber, Bradley, Sacha, Dempsey, and Morris. Hopefully Altidore forms a part of it as well. Our guys with Landon, Bradley, Demps, I'm sure I'm forgetting a couple had pretty good team play and were good at stringing together aggressive strings of passes and runs. But that squad is gone now, and our linkage play went to crap when Demps went out. Demps may not make it all the way back but I think we're gonna have a few players start to play better together they replace him if he can't get back. I do think this will be tight ... Bradley and Demps either playing soso or being out really hurt out team imho. We got some defensive talent... JK just messed up how it was deployed. BA may not be JK, but he'll get that right or at least better than JK did. Solid D, better linkage, better on the ball skills = we squeak by. Really really need Nagbe to show and put pressure on everyone for PT.... mebbe even become a core young player going forward. We're gonna get a good core nucleus out of this group... hopefully before they get old.
Pending health...I'd like to see this lineup against Honduras.
-------------------Howard-----------------
Yedlin------ Cameron-------Brooks---------Besler
--------------Jones------Bradley----------------
Pulisic---------------------------------Johnson
----------------Altidore--Wood---------------
we need points, id prefer to see johnson at the LB position and nagbe or some other aggressive playmaker on the wing opposite pulisic
As much as e discuss uniforms in other threads, thought this might be a good place to drip this.
With the last round of black/merlot or whatever color that was/navy, I said something to a buddy of mine about how it just doesn't rep the US well at all. (Then he got one of the uni's for his birthday from his kids.)
http://www.blackandredunited.com/usmnt/2017/2/27/14731088/usa-jersey-usmnt-uswnt-united-states-fifa-world-cup
The Waldo uniforms are the best America has ever worn, period.
And with the blue shorts. (I've seen a few pics with white shorts, but they have to have the blue. White socks are OK.)
We have a cool color combo, and I know it's tempting to try lots of new things, but I think it would be good for our brand we just stuck to these as our main uniform. Then we can allow Nike/whoever to switch up our alternate uniform whenever they please, but still have this one as our long-term primary uniform.
just put some white stars on those blue shorts and I'm sold
I think blue shorts was always the intent, but there will be times where a color switch on shorts will be required due to the opposing team's colors. Only so much you can do about those, but I agree, blue shorts and white socks should be the intent.
U.S. back in action tonight for World Cup qualifying against Honduras.
Here's who Arena started tonight
And it's almost like... wait for it...with the right people in the right places, this team is playing really well. Up 3-0 within 35 minutes
Holy fuckballs, 5-0 4 minutes into the second half! Pulisic is 100% the real deal. We finally have a legitimate international star!
Hahahahaha 6-0 at the 54 minute mark.
Every time Christian Pulisic touches the ball every US fan should chant "AZOR AHAI"
For us soccer novices, could you provide a reference?
It's not a soccer reference, but a Game of Thrones one. Azor Ahai is the "Lord of Light," a warrior in a legend who saved the world from zombies and shit.
Thanks HT. Next time I won't be lazy, that's what google is for, even works here in Peru.
Pulisic is the truth.
Watched the first half and then went to bed but wow, at times the ball movement was phenomenal. Hate that brooks went down, haven't seen any reports yet. Same for Sebastian.
Dehydration was the cause of Brooks going out. Should be good for Tuesday
Heck of a game pulisic looked phenomenal but can't forget deuces hat trick dempsey is a beast
Dempsey had himself a night, that's for sure, but you really can't praise Pulisic enough for how he contributed.
of the 6 goals scored, he had a direct hand in 5 of them. For Lletget's opener, he was the one who made the move to get open in the box and put the ball on net to have the opportunity. Dempsey's first came directly off a beautiful chip pass from Pulisic that set him free. The fourth goal was scored by Pulisic himself. The fifth was set up by a seeing eye throughball from Pulisic that sprung Dempsey, and the 6th was a free kick that came off of... you guessed it, Pulisic drawing the foul.
I'm not sure I've ever seen a US player completely take over a game like that before. I know it was only Honduras, and they're clearly not on the level of Mexico or Costa Rica, but that was an impressive thrashing.
Pulisic is a true playmaker and if we can put some young talent around him, we will be much more formidable for years to come.
You are correct that Honduras is not at the level of CR or Mex, but after living there for 4 years, I promise you that loss was a national tragedy. Honduras claims to be the first nation in the Western Hemisphere to have played "futbol" when the brits brought it there in the early 1800's. Their passion for the sport is phenomenal, and they will want revenge the next time we have to play in that hellhole stadium of theirs in San Pedro Sula.
wait, isn't that illegal in soccer?
not according to this guy:
Or this guy:
Must be an Argentina thing.
The French get in on this a bit, too.
US played well. Iffy at the back at time, don't think it was necessarily the cleanest performance we had. We found the goals, but Honduras were very very poor. Good showing though, need to follow up with at least a point in Panama.
We thrashed them without maybe our best player in Fabian Johnson. I realized that late in the game. Villafana did well in his spot but Johnson is on another level.
the lack of posession worried me and was my biggest complaint of Arena in the first place. that being said im glad the reigns are off on Pulusic, the guy has the potential to be our GOAT
We don't have the techincal ability to dominate possession--side note: the surface was a mess last night. Very had to control your touch and keep footing from both sides. If you look at the box score, it's one of the craziest things you'll ever see. We didn't play that well, tbh. As you said, Honduras led it possession, shots, crosses, and corners. Unheard of that we scored six goals, as had zero corners and only three crosses.
We don't need 60+ percent possession to be effective. That doesn't suit us. We can't pick apart a defense and string together 20 passes for a tap in. That doesn't suit our strengths. We're good on the counter and having the likes of Nagbe/Pulisic/Yedlin/Johnson run at defenders and have Jozy and Clint, proven goal scorers make those runs off the backs and have easy finishes. That's where it was beautiful last night. Pulisic and co just running at the back line, playing a little one two and finishing clinically. That's football. Barcelona play nice, but we aren't Barcelona. I'll take the 6 goals and 47 percent possession over the 2 goals and 63 percent possesion.
this was HONDURAS though. they should not be out posessing us period. we should be dominatinh that game. Likewise jozy is not exactly clinical hes alright. Dempsey is a great finisher but we are not built with a bunch of target men. tell me the last time a team that solely based its game around counter attacks was consistently competitive at the international level? Letting your opponent control the ball with a siege mentality is building a team up to crash and counting on dempsey to keep pumping goals in for another 3 years isnt the best strategy, if we can consistently dominate our opponents were built for success.
also spain didnt use to be a possesion team nor did germany but it takes a complete overhaul in your mentality from the bottom to the top in order to do it FOR A LONG TIME. spain implemented their plan in the late 80s and early 90s and are now reaping the benefits. switching our mentality after 5 years is a dangerous game and im not in love with Arenas siege mentality
1) We won six nil. I'd call that domination. (I will admit, I don't think we played particularly deserving of a six-nil victory, I thought Honduras were especially poor, despite their statistical advantages which I pointed out above.)
2) Possession isn't the name of the game. Goals are. It's what you do with your possession. It's something to take into account, but I think Honduras' best chances didn't come because they had a great spell of possession and were passing us off the park, they came off a cross and Brooks losing his man behind them.
3) Portugal won the Euro's last summer with an even more defensive version that what we have. We're actually quite average. There are far worse culprits who have the "siege" mentality you have mentioned.
4) We're not going to be able to consistently dominate our opponents. That's just reality. If our best athletes played soccer, maybe, but until our players are growing up playing soccer the way kids in Argentina, Brazil, Chile, France, Germany, ect. play it (grassroots level, on the streets, in small sided games) our technical ability cannot surpass them. Without the technical ability, possession is meaningless.
The national team isn't the place to make these adjustments. You simply don't have enough time together. It's done in the youth levels and domestic leagues. MLS is trash. It's not good soccer, it's similar to what England has to offer, and reason they are struggling on the world stage: it's built upon physicality, not technicality.
Spain, Germany, France...these leagues play some beautiful, technically sound football. The only ones doing that in England are teams built with foreign players. The English players up and down the system are playing Route 1 stuff.
We don't have a team of Pulisic's running around Dortmund for years and years learning how to play football. There's a reason he's our best prospect ever. You don't see players from MLS make this type of impact this early. The system sets them up for a brand of football that isn't based on your technically ability as much as it is your physical stature and ability to play your position.
Pulisic is going to be world class because he can attack you from different angles. Can play all over the pitch. At the height of Dempsey's career at Fulham, same thing. Fabian Johnson, does a lot well and is extrememly versitile. These type of players would have no problem adapting to a possession style build...because they either grew up in Europe, or damn near the greatest player to ever put on a jersey. The Yedlins, Morris', Nagbe's of the world can get the job done on the world stage, but only if you ask them to do something they're good at...and not try to place their square peg in a round hole.
they finished 3rd in their group, and eeked out multiple wins via penalties, that's not a formula to follow.
at the moment you're correct, we don't have the talent level to consistently dominate. but i don't buy the "our best athletes aren't playing so we can't be as good" argument, mostly because of the population of the country and the fact that you don't have to be bo jackson to be great at soccer.
you're right, the youth development system needs to be redone; stop focusing necessarily on game results and more on player development. but technical ability isn't going to be emphasized in the country if the MNT manager doesn't emphasize it.
this was a pretty good performance, and while i'm not keen on arena, he'll likely get us to russia. keeping him beyond that is a mistake
Portugal also had horrible finishing luck all tournament, they could have dominated emphatically had they finished better. Either way they still won the Euro, the second most difficult tournament to win in International Football behind the WC.
Can we stop with the whole narrative that Dortmund is responsible for Pulisic's development? He didn't even sign with them until he was 16 and had some great performances with the U-17 national team - the kid grew up playing for a local club in PA, and barely spent much time in Dortmund's academy before appearing with the senior team.
Dude is a prodigy, but the vast majority of his soccer development took place in the states.
Majority of his development took place in the States, the most important development is taking place in Dortmund. It's not one or the other, both were impactful, but his future is being significantly more impacted by the fact he's playing against top flight competition week in and week out in a big 5 European league. Between Bundesliga and the champion's league, he is growing in a perfect situation to become a true world class player. That is something we absolutely cannot offer him in the US at this time.
This. Dortmund took him to the next level and advanced his overall football IQ. He was very good in Hershey, Dortmund made him a world-class caliber talent.
HOAT, is that you?
Rewatched that game again. The positives are easy to see. Pulisic was dominant, Jozy quietly had a massive game and played his role with his back to the goal superbly, Deuce did what he does (2 more goals to beat Landon's record in 25 fewer games played!), Timmy was good when called upon, Brooks was a wall, and Bradley was the rock in front of the defense that we need.
That said. Honduras's defense was abysmal and unorganized, and their keeper made some boneheaded mistakes to allow a couple of those goals. Also our defense made plenty of mistakes that a better team will make us pay for. Omar was a bit of a liability positionally, and if not for Brooks being there to make a last ditch tackle on at least 2-3 occasions it would have cost us. I'd be interested in seeing a Ream-Brooks pairing. The fullbacks we had available were not ideal choices, but they did as well as could be expected. And Lletget's injury was a big blow, as I felt he was helping back a bit more than Bedoya did when he came on, plus he just seems more lively.
Also the refs made some really bad calls, especially early on. It's not often you see assistant refs at this level miss a whole lot, but calling that ball out of bounds when Pulisic beat his man on the sideline was criminal.
This game v panama is so damn CONCACAF-fy. Crap field, lots of tackles, and plenty of gamesmanship.
Edit: I'll take an away draw. 4 pts from 6.
how do we all feel about arenas? no midfield presence they didnt respect the centerbacks so nobody was open inside thus the ball had to be launched long....and this is what you get no descernable offense or direction. jesus christ that game was AWFUL
I understand there's some injuries but I'm less than impressed. Zusi will get DESTROYED by any competent team out at right back.
Id argue all the first half fouls on nagbe and pulisic worked and like you said, we avoided the middle and went long/outside in the second half.
I know he's here to help us qualify for the WC, but he Arena is not the future.
god i hope youre right, we were totally outcoached today i realize starters were out but the failure to adjust was infuriating. then in the end 3 formation changes in 20 minutes is not a recipe for success
And here is why I remain skeptical of Arena. I don't think he's a particularly good coach tactically. The hope is that he'll get us qualified and then we find someone better. Otherwise I think in the long run we'll see the team regress.
There was so little to like about that game. Outside of Nagbe and Pulisic, nobody could dribble the damn ball at all. They pressured the ball and dared us to make decent passes or complete a dribble and we were completely unable to make them pay. We had no offensive movement whatsoever and our touches were high school bad. Outside of Pulisic holding the ball in their box until Dempsey got there, I don't think I even got excited during any other moment of the game. An enormous step back, not completely unforeseen, but we were lucky to draw. Panama looked like the better side for most of the game.