The thread about Bud leaving for Oregon (or anywhere) got me thinking. If Bud retires as DC for the Hokies without ever leaving for greener pastures or a HC gig, who do you think will go down as the more beloved Hokie coach, Bud or Frank?
Bud is legitimately responsible for a lot of on the field success over the years, and his selflessness to stay on when Frank retired is commendable.
But Frank is Frank and he is pretty much responsible for everything we love about our program.
I think my thoughts are that I appreciate Frank more as a persona and face of the program, but as far as X's and O's on field performance, I think Bud is the best.
What are you guys' thoughts? Is it even close?
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Whether or not he retires with us, for me the two will be about on the same page and synonymous with what we've come to know and love as Hokie football.
I love Frank.
I named my son after Bud.
Budediah? Budimus? Budro? Budland? Or just Bud?
Middle name is Foster.
If we have a third, I'm going with Budediah. Boy or girl.
No matter how you slice it....its pronounced "Kevin".
via GIPHY
Robert?
(with all due respect to Coach)
That's like asking whether peanut butter or jelly really makes the sandwich what it is. You need them and love them both.
I don't see why we have to dice n slice this in this way.
Both are highly respected coaches for VT over the LONG HAUL. Let's just be glad we had this experience.
My only thought is that Frank's final altruistic move in college football should be to decline acceptance into the CFB hall of fame until they also allow Bud to be enshrined. Currently, I believe coordinators are not eligible.
Having said that, I think they'll both remain beloved but my thought is that Frank will probably be best remembered. Remember Bob Bradley at PSU? No? That's what I mean.
Well...there was that other coordinator at Penn State.
Without Frank, Bud doesn't stick around as long as he does, maybe he doesn't even come to VT in the first place.
Frank wins 10/10 times for me
But without Bud does Frank have as much success, is he as revered?
Did I just introduce a new paradox into existence?
I don't think it's controversial at all. Meaning no disrespect to CFB, Bud without Frank is still one of the best DCs in the country, if not the best. Frank without Bud is still a great guy but no way does he get the time to build the legacy that he did. Remember the three years that our O was ranked #99 or worse? Had it not been for Bud and the defense, not only would we not have won 10 games in each of those years, we might not have won 10 games combined over that span. Frank would have been let go by 2006 at the latest had it not been for Bud IMO, and that assumes that he was retained long enough to see MV1 in the first place.
But without Frank, though, may never realize his full potential as DC.
But without Bud, though, would never have reached the Natty and achieved full success as HC.
The cat is both dead and alive
But not at the same time...in this case the live cat (Bud as DC/co-DC) preceded the dead cat (Natty). The cat cycles. Maybe it wouldn't have been alive at all.
In my mind, it is impossible to think about one without thinking about the other. They each bring their own personality to the table and did enough to be appreciated on their own terms, but in my opinion, I will always remember them linked together. And I am fine with that. Bud's success on the field as one of the best to ever do it over several decades speaks for itself. Frank's ability to win in big time college football on his own terms and without comprimising his values, cheating and cutting corners, or embarrassing the university is impressive.
VT football doesn't become VT football without Frank Beamer
Frank Beamer had VT football winning big games and dominating opponents before Bud was lifted to DC (not co-DC).
That being said, the Beamer and VT legacy has a VERY different final chapter if Bud isn't DC when we get invited to the ACC. Our offense was putrid up until this year (with a couple exceptions when Tyrod did Tyrod things) and without Bud putting out elite defenses annually, Frank's tenure might not have been long in the ACC.
It's a package deal. Both of their stories will always be interwoven to complete the great Hokie football legend quilt.
I think the lore of Frank Beamer rivals that of anyone in college football because his kindness knew no bounds.
Frank = Ender
Bud = Bean
Boy I sure get this and I do like it.
I know, right? The parallels are striking.
Especially the part where Beamer committed genocide on the Hoo football program.
Obscure, yet delightful.
Why not two statues outside of Lane?
Porque no los dos? One statue of both of them together.
Statue of them together: Foster and Beamer, both hands on knees looking on, as they did on big third time plays often. Frank slightly in front of bud.
This is like choosing which of your children you love more. In public, I'd say I don't have a favorite.
But the honest answer is that Frank Beamer is Virginia Tech Football.
I have three kids and one of them is clearly the favorite. It's whichever one isn't currently screaming or making the other one scream. This formula may change once they are all out of toddler-hood.
Yea, when they hit the pre-teen years your favorite will be whichever one isn't making you scream.
Anyone else find it a little funny that the flag showed up just after the kiss?
PDA
Aw c'mon Cherry! How can I possibly expected to control my emos after sending out CFB in a fashion he deserves!? That's BS!!!
Can we get this in statue form?
If we could pause it RIGHT EXACTLY at the moment of the kiss, oh we could do SOOO many funny memes just for shits & gigs. Mine would say "AW C'MON BUD, YOU KNOW THEY'RE GONNA FLAG US" or something to that effect. Somebody else could do better (funnier).
Giants
TBH, there's no Bud Foster without Frank Beamer. Even Bud has admitted this himself.
goes both ways. Frank Beamer never reaches the elite levels without Bud.
So, they're our Jordan and Pippen, then?
Ditka/Ryan?
Agreed.
For awhile, I would have put Foster and edge over the Beams, but after the last season, I have to conclude (and concur) that ya can't have one without the other.
Seriously???? You have to make me choose one????
I don't think I understand this response...
Edit: I get it now. No, you don't. Most people in the thread haven't. I think I can't either.
Great points everyone. I'm just happy we have/had them both. Can't wait to see their statues outside of Lane.
There should be a statue built with them side by side.
I think Bud gets his own place in VT lore, and it's ongoing.
If we're really lucky, it includes winning a national championship. Also I'm OK with Bud getting his own statue.
I think the entrance to Lane (or maybe right after you turn onto Southgate) should be this but with CFB and Bud's faces.
Those hand salutes are sure to never, ever be misinterpreted.
had to go there, eh?
I always thought it was more "Talk to the giant stone hand" and less of the "Heil Dunedin".
"What we're trying to tell you is this is your last chance to turn back. I mean really. You thought Boromir's fate was disturbing? You ain't seen nothin' yet."
At Stanford, the OC position is called the "Andrew Luck Director of Offense"...I think when Bud hangs it up, the DC position should be called the "Bud Foster Minister of Defense"
I haven't seen any mention of Michael Vick; Beamer was very instrumental in his recruiting process and Vick has said as much. If he hadn't chosen to go to Va Tech the program wouldn't be where its at today either. On the other hand you could say if Va Tech didn't have the defense it had during the Vick years they wouldn't be there are at today either. I like the idea of having a statue of both of them. They are both synonymous with the program over the last two plus decades.
Great point about Vick. I agree they both deserve a statue one day.
I realize they're not perfect fits, but:
Beamer = Avon Barksdale
Foster = Stringer Bell
Fuente = Marlo Stanfield
Haha yes! Marlo coming in at the most opportune moment
I didn't hear anything about Buddha going to Oregon, so I checked the Google. This came up which I found amusing.
http://fosterbuds.com