After a tantalizing blowout victory over rival Virginia, the Hokies completed their regular season with a 9-3 record and earned a date with the vaunted Clemson Tigers in the ACC Championship Game. The Tigers have only lost one regular season game since 2015 and pose a daunting task for a game Hokies squad.
Mike Williams leads a Dynamic Clemson Offense
In many ways, Clemson mirrors exactly what Justin Fuente wants his program to become. The Tigers' running game is similar structurally to the Hokies', although the Tigers run more inside zone and power. Running back Wayne Gallman (No. 9, R-JR, 6-0, 210) runs hard downhill. He is a better version of the running backs Tech faced against Duke, and his quickness in the hole will challenge the Hokies soundness with gap fits. Deshaun Watson (No. 4, JR, 6-3, 215) is a run threat on par with Jerod Evans. Although, to keep him healthy Clemson has ran fewer designed quarterback runs this season than in 2015 where Watson rushed 207 times for 1,105 yards and 12 TDs. Watson is a capable runner as demonstrated on this inside zone read.
Given how Bud Foster has schemed against the quarterback keeper on a zone read this season, you can expect that Terrell Edmunds and Chuck Clark will account for the quarterback most plays. That defensive strategy presents Clemson the opportunity to dial up another staple of its (and Virginia Tech's) offense, the deep slant off of play-action.
The run fake draws South Carolina safety Steven Montac (No. 22) forward and keeps him fixated on Watson. Wide receiver Mike Williams (No. 7, R-JR, 6-3, 225) has outside leverage, catches the ball in stride, and carries some baggage in end zone.
Clemson's route design is also rather similar to Virginia Tech's. Most of the passing structure features one quarterback read and a quick throw. Watch a little bit of Clemson football and you'll quickly become familiar with double quick outs, double slants, slant off of play-action, and go routes. The Tigers love to feature WRs Artavis Scott (No. 3, JR, 5-10, 190) and Ray-Ray McCloud (No. 34, SO, 5-10, 180) on screens. Hunter Renfrow (No. 13, R-SO, 5-11, 180) will work the intermediate parts of the field around the Hokies' linebackers. Tight end Jordan Leggett (No. 16, SR, 6-5, 260) is a weapon in the red zone that Clemson loves to target on wheel routes. Yet at the end of the day, Williams is the difference maker of their receiving corps. Perhaps most frightening is his ability to win on isolation go routes against man coverage.
When Clemson has struggled offensively, much of the time it was the byproduct of turnovers. The Tigers have kept Watson in the pocket more this season, and being fooled by the coverage on his initial read has contributed to the lion's share of his 14 interceptions.
On this play against Pitt, Panthers corner Ryan Lewis (No. 38) shows outside leverage in man coverage. When Lewis' man breaks to the inside, he stays put in a deep third zone. Watson's primary read is a wheel route to Leggett.
When Leggett breaks behind the Pitt linebacker Mike Caprara (No. 30), Watson believes that the Lewis has cleared out due to what he thinks is man coverage on the post route. He throws to Leggett without ever seeing Lewis, who gets an easy interception.
No defense has completely shut down Clemson's offense all season. The Hokies' offense will need to help its defense by controlling time of possession and scoring touchdowns in the red zone. The Tigers' have been less effective offensively against defenses that could keep their safeties deep and still minimize the damage in the running game. The Hokies had success against Virginia keeping the running game contained with their front six, and the lack of the threat of the quarterback run allowed Foster to crash his defensive ends to stop the tailbacks. If Clemson doesn't choose to feature Watson in the running game, they will be doing the Hokies defense a huge favor.
Is the Clemson defense as good as its reputation?
Clemson's front-four is regarded by pundits and analysts as one of the best in college football. As I watched the tape, I was surprised to see both Pittsburgh and N.C. State had success running against said vaunted group.
Defensive coordinator Brent Venables' scheme shares a ton of similarities to Bud Foster's. Venables loves to bring designer blitzes to get pressure on passing downs.
In pass coverage, Clemson's corners use similar leverage techniques that the Hokies featured under former DB coach Torrian Gray. All-ACC CB Cordrea Tankersley (No. 25, SR, 6-1, 200) is the best man corner I have watched all season. His ability to find the football when he turns and runs with a deep receiver is unparalleled amongst ACC DBs. Clemson safeties Van Smith (No. 23, SO, 5-11, 195) and Jadar Johnson (No. 18, SR, 6-0, 210) fly up into the box in run support. However, they have been a liability in coverage, particularly against double moves, wheel routes, and shovel passes. Pitt RB James Conner (1), FB George Aston (2), and TE Scott Orndoff (2) combined for five touchdown catches against Clemson's safeties and linebackers.
On Pitt's initial score against Clemson, Conner (on the jet sweep fake) froze LB Dorian O'Daniel (No. 6, R-JR, 6-1, 215) and LB Kendall Joseph (No. 34, R-SO, 6-0, 230) over-pursued. Aston easily took a shovel pass to the house.
In many games, the Isaiah Ford matchup has been critical to the Hokies moving the football. Against Clemson, I believe that Cam Phillips, Sam Rogers (as a receiver), Steven Peoples, and C.J. Carroll will need to have huge days. I don't anticipate much being open on the outside. If Ford and Bucky Hodges can make some plays against Clemson's corners, it will be a bonus.
Up front, Clemson's scheme is built around a huge defensive line and small fast linebackers. Mammoth Christian Wilkins (No. 42, SO, 6-4, 310) starts at left defensive end. Dexter Lawrence (No. 90, FR, 6-5, 340) is a twitchy behemoth at defensive tackle. Former Benedictine HS product Clelin Ferrell (No. 99, R-FR, 6'5, 265) is a strong bull rusher and very effective bending inside on stunts.
Teams that had success running against Clemson found ways to block its big front one-on-one and then get downhill quickly on the Tigers' small and very quick linebacker group. Ben Boulware (No. 10, SR6-0, 235), Joseph, and O'Daniel do not do a great job of getting off blocks, as demonstrated by the touchdown above and this zone run by N.C. State RB Matthew Dayes.
Wilkins, who has received a ton of media attention, in large part due to such a huge man playing an edge position (and being used as a runner and a receiver on offense) underwhelms on film. He does a good job of jamming up plays, but as N.C. State demonstrated, he can be reached on outside zones and influence blocked out of position. Lawrence on the other hand will be a nightmare for the interior of the Hokies' offensive line. It is critical for Virginia Tech to wear out Clemson's starting d-line unit and get blockers on those linebackers at the second level. Clemson is very susceptible to play-action, but the running game has to be a credible threat. Designed inside runs like Fuente and Brad Cornelsen featured against Virginia will be the ticket. The linebackers and safeties are too fast for the jet sweeps to be anything more than window dressing for deep shots.
Comments
Am I correct in the observation that #76, in the second clip featuring the deep slant, should have been flagged for being downfield?
Happens 10 times + a game. Gets flagged once, maybe.
VT will get flagged for that this game. Clemson... Not so much.
Clemson leads the ACC (and the nation for much of the season, #5 now) in penalties called against their opponents. We should be expecting for most of the iffy calls to go against us, Clemson has been on the right side of those all year with the exception of two plays in the Pitt game Clemson fans are still whining about.
This could also mean they are a well disciplined team. Not immediately jump to the tin foil hats...
I've watched all these Clemson games. I watched NC State get 11 penalties before Clemson got one, I watched the refs ignore an open field facemask, full extended arm, unobstructed view get no called on the Clemson defense that would have given NC State a first down inside the 10. I watched them call an iffy PI on NC State and on the next possession no called an NC State receiver getting tackled that ended in a Clemson interception. Officiating in the Louisville game was also atrocious. I'm not saying it's a conspiracy, but for one reason or another, Clemson is getting lots of penalties called against their opponents.
Clemson's defense actually has been penalized a decent bit, so they aren't disciplined, their offense might be, but I'm just saying how it is factual that their opponent's get a lot of penalties called on them, which is pretty independent to whether or not Clemson is discipline themselves.
I've been saying the same thing.
There's no guarantee that the referees are going to be bad, but just don't be surprised if the iffy calls favor Clemson.
I live in Clemson country. In fact I have two kids attending Clemson. So we have a house divided. I have seen every Clemson game. In my view there has not been a bias in the refereeing in Clemson's favor.
In my view Clemson's defense is overrated. Yeah they are tops in the ACC but against Louisville, Florida State, and even Pitt they gave up a lot of yards and a lot of points. I expect that VT will be able to move the ball and score. It will be interesting to see how the Clemson secondary lines up. Are they gonna do press coverage or provide some space? I suspect you are going to see an aggressive Clemson defense in press coverage. Let us look to go deep once in a while with a double move.
Where Clemson has really done it of course is on offense. The Clemson offense is a pleasure to watch. They are really amazing, at almost every position. As pointed out, no one, and I mean no one has been able to shut them down. Their only real problem has been turnovers. The Clemson offense is so good that in reality, it has not really mattered how their defense has played. They put up so many points the defense can just be ok and win easily. And the offense is so explosive and puts up points so fast, they can have 2, 3, 4 turnovers a game and still win easily.
For VT to win, the VT offense needs to move the ball, score TDs in the red zone, and make this game a shoot out. The VT defense can hopefully get some turnovers, but don't expect our defense to prevent Clemson from putting points up. If the offense performs, we need the defense to do just enough to make this a surprise win.
They are very good. But, those OL do slip down field on RPOs. And newsflash, so does VT's OL. If officials had called OL downfield when VT beat tOSU, VT would not have won the game. Much like tempo, it is a strategy that stretches the boundary of the rules. Ultimately, the NCAA will adjust how that is called. It certainly makes it difficult for a LB to drop under a slant route when an offensive tackle is in his lap.
Makes Pettit wearing a tight end number all the better!
Interesting link about this kind of stuff.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2016-12-01/do-college-football-r...
First read done. Now to wait a few and read again and try and understand it all. French we need to find you high paying job doing this for Fuente.
If he offered six figures, I'd run to Blacksburg on foot.
but then what would we do....
via GIPHY
Win.
This may be one of the best replies I have ever seen on TKP
You would have the best top secret anonymous insider in the history of college football?
I would be really happy to get incredibly accurate information from a new TKP member who happens to show up with the username "definitelynotfrench."
Juan English is definitely not French DOT com.
By far our toughest test this season. I go into Saturday hopeful for a win, expecting a loss, and confident that it we lose by more than one possession, people on the open thread will lose their collective shit.
I think people losing their shit in the open thread is a given. At some point someone will call for Motu, Evans, and Bud Foster to be replaced.
Stopped reading the live thread here and on r/CFB because people are waaaayyyyyy to reactionary and pessimistic. Every TD we give up means Bud is getting kicked out of town. Every play for less than 5 yards is bad playcalling. Every penalty is bullshit or proves how shitty our players are.
Really think we got a good shot at winning if we run the touchdown play more than they do.
Hahaha. I actually laughed out loud.
Well I can just hope the similar offensive play scheme from clemson to what we've been trying to run with this season will benefit the Hokie defense since they've had a lot of time practicing against it during the week.
Starting D hasn't faced the Hokies offense since two weeks before the Liberty game. They have faced individual starters in drills, but the starters go against the scout team running the next opponent's system.
The biggest difference between VT's offense and Clemson's- 1) Clemson's running game is much more focused on quick hitting downhill running plays and 2) Watson, while just as capable as Evans as a runner, has run much less (and less effectively) than Evans this year.
With a defense so similar to ours, if there is one thing that has me hopeful for this game, it is playmaking potential of QB4.
I'm cautiously optimistic for this game. Clemson is a great team, no doubt, but they, like pretty much everyone, have looked very beatable at times.
And besides, by the transitive property we're already ACC champs by virtue of beating Pitt. VT > Pitt > Clemson. Boom.
By transitive property we are already B1G champs as well. We should get a bye until the CFP final.
Pitt with wins over Clemson and PSU...gotta be driving their fans nuts. Have a nice day Pat.
Fork Narduzzi?
Would love to avoid a slow start in this one. Clemson goes through hot/cold stretches most games and have failed to put together 4 quarters of dominance against a quality opponent. We need to execute and force and make them pay during their droughts. Don't want to let them control this one.
THIS, THIS, THIS, THIS, THIS....
Did I mention? THIS... we get behind, we're hating it. Close we have a shot. Our team is very susceptible to the mental aspect of the game - must stay close to keep the fire.
I think this game will come down to if our secondary can win some of the one on one match-ups and limit big plays, if we can establish the run game early, if we win the turnover battle, and if our defensive front can disrupt Watson and stop the run. That's it. That's not too much to ask for, right?....
Adonis is going to need to ball out against Williams like he hasn't before. This is also a great game for him to give the NFL some tape to watch. Facyson too.
Facyson is still focused on becoming a heart surgeon. I'm not sure what his plans are in terms of trying the NFL.
Go the Chris Borland route. Get drafted, get a nice NFL bonus. Quit after a year or two with a million in the bank and plenty of time to do whatever he wants to with his life.
The issue usually isn't the money it's taking MCats and finding a MD school with spots and getting far behind your peers. He is looking at 12-16 years of training from time he starts Med school till he is out practicing, it really places a personal life on hold for that time. My wife and I didn't get settled down until 2013, when we're both in our 30's.
He's fine. MCATs take about 4-5 months of study if yo do them right. Playing in the NFL would be a big-time difference maker when applying to med school. It would separate him from all the cookie-cutter resumes they sift through. And plenty, plenty of people go into med school to start their second career. Not all med students go in right after college.
Now if you have experience with this, I'm sure I;m just preaching to the choir, but if someone is committed to being a physician they understand the time it takes.
He could do it I agree it just makes the decisions to jump to NFL harder. Talking to his brother Brandon wants to be a heart surgeon because a childhood friend has a heart condition. It's been his goal since he was young.
I've been in the business of providing educational funding for medical students for over 20 years (since Obama took over the federal loan program, now just to U.S. students going to high quality foreign medical schools), and we generally see four years of medical school (two in the classroom/basic sciences, two in clinical rotations), then four years of medical residency. Additional time is often needed for board review courses (primarily for Step 1), waiting on a residency match (particularly the timing of when one graduates), and perhaps additional residency for specific internships, but extending the total time out to 12-16 years would be extremely rare.
Surgery residency at good programs usually takes 5 years plus if he wants to speclize in heart surgery and advanced applications he will probably need a fellowship. My wife is a gastroenterologist who did a 3 year fellowship plus one year advanced year at fellowship. Adding 4 years to her residency and med school.
way to check that sugar momma box, HF
Not yet, have to pay of student loans first. THEN it's party time.
LMAO! I missed on not 1 but 2 very will paid corp. lawyers! Hey, baby? I need some gas money for the bass boat.
Yep, you're right. Surgeons take a lot longer than GP's to get through. Only a very small percentage of graduates of foreign medical schools get into surgery slots.
I laugh - out loud. Guy has PLENTY of time - there is no race, it just ends in death.
Medschool can wait. - from a dude who did it late 30s....
Stroman would get the nod before Adonis I believe. Bud said he would play.
I don't know. Mike Williams is a tall receiver with great high point skills. Not sure I want Stro on that even though hes been great this year. Adonis's length might pay off here.
I would like to see Adonis manhandle Williams. Take the PF but don't let him catch anything.
I would prefer Adonis on Williams with Stroman covering a faster, shiftier receiver like Scott, Cain, or Renfrow. Mike Williams' biggest asset is physicality and size, he does an excellent job of creating position and attacking the ball at its highest point, and has the strength to make those catches through significant contact.
If we can limit Clemson's running game we can win this game. Their offense, while flashy and dangerous outside, does not function properly when they can't run the ball. I can assure you, all of their offensive issues this season have been centered around turnovers and their interior OL failing to create as much room on early downs. They looked better the last two weeks, but that was against Wake and USCjr.
However, they HAVE to stop the run with minimal tackles by the safeties. If you see Clark and Edmunds making a bunch of tackles, even right at the LOS, that becomes worrisome with the passing game. Clemson is going to run trips to the field and try to get Leggett one on one with Motuapuaka via formation. That is a dangerous match up.
I'm worried about that play because it has beat us several times, and the same mistake we made against it, is the same mistake Florida State also made on Leggett's game winner, where two players ran with the player running a deep post(ish) route and left the TE uncovered.
French, there is no team other than VT I have watched more than Clemson, I've been long awaiting this review to see if I am seeing and picking up on things that you would when you watched the film and I am pleasantly surprised with my similar diagnoses.
That said, I'm not as bullish on Tankersley, I watched him get picked on A LOT last year as teams shied away from Mac Alexander, and this year I think he has benefitted from the pass rush and deficiencies elsewhere in the secondary. I think he has a lot of talent, and his size is a big plus as well, but I'm not as high on him as some. He is very handsy and I can almost guarantee if we throw a few fades against him, he will get flagged at least once.
I have watched a TON of Clemson games this year and French (as always) is 100% accurate in saying that Clemson's gameplan is essentially what the Hokies are aspiring to be. That being said, there's one player on this team that I absolutely loathe and if you haven't heard of him yet, you will by the end of the night on Saturday: LB #10 Ben Boulware.
I don't mean to take away from his talent because for an undersized LB he is a great athlete and is in there causing chaos on every play. BUT he plays dirty as shit. It seems like whenever he makes a tackle, he always gets another hit in after the whistle (for a mild example of this, please see the first clip above under the Is the Clemson defense as good as its reputation? section -- obvious two-handed punch to the gut of the USC QB while he's on the ground). Dabo has addressed Boulware's late hits throughout the year with typical Dabo responses: "The kid plays hard...I mean, he's a hard-playing kid...kid's out there playing with other kids all hard and whatnot. Something-something CLEMSON, SOUTH CAROLINA!!"
Okay so, maybe I made up those Dabo comments, but you know that's some shit he'd say. At any rate, I truly hope the Hokies offense has their piss hot and are ready to go out there on Saturday night and punch Boulware and Co. in the mouth because I think we're gonna have to score a lot to hang with these guys.
Go Hokies, and as our first President said (and/or when I created this meme on TKP about 5 years ago):
Hate to be that guy, but I actually know Ben, and I am pretty good friends with his older brother and I can't agree that he is a dirty player out there trying to injure people. He plays hard, he's emotional on field, but the narrative around the country about him is not an accurate reflection of his character.
So the punches, chokehold and other extra items are just.......??????
...passion?
We can break down the passion of Boulware on this hit of Patrick Towles.
In game the refs called it targeting but overturned it; at the time Patrick Towles was not a "defenseless" player but the elbow to the neck seems to meet the criteria without that.
A third of the way down the page on a fairly defensive Tigernet LINK story (about Boulware's dirty reputation) tells about how Brent Venables ripped him a new one after this hit. Ben's response to that is a little hard to believe. He claims that the Venables reaction after the hit was because he was fraternizing with the "really cool" BC players, and that the quarterback came back to laugh about the play and he was joking with the other team too much. Yes, he claims that Brent Venables was pissed off about that after this play.
In his post game presser, Boulware first chalked up the call to touchy refs (on the grounds that he didn't even use his own head, so there's no way it could have been targeting, duh), to "pushing" and "bench pressing"; and finally, in his own defense, this little gem:
"It was not even a hit. I punched him. That is what it was honestly. If they had thrown me out for that I would have been pretty upset."
He clearly hits him in the shoulder, go look at the replay again. It looks bad, but he didn't punch Towles in the throat.
I know because I was watching this game on a Friday night and they showed the replay about one million times from a zillion different views to see if it was targeting
He elbows Towles in the throat. You're right that he does make initial contact at the shoulder pad. The whole head jerking and ball dropping part right after is where the elbow goes through his neck/throat area,.
I was watching this game live on TV, too; I provided gifs to aid your memory. The gifs in my post are two of the four best angles I found here
He very clearly does not elbow him in the throat.
I disagree with Chris on the Joke-hold of Lamar. I agree with Chris on this though. I think Boulware is aiming for the right shoulder and he makes solid contact. I think the contact forces his wrist to snap in the direction of the head/neck of Towels but I don't think he hits him in the neck hardly at all...
I'm not going to defend Boulware much beyond that. I'm not sure this hit is as bad as it looks. I know targeting is maddeningly inconsistently called but in this instance I think overturning the call was correct. This, I suppose, is part of why it's so tough to call. We can't even agree on how the hit took place.
This is not a conventional targeting call, and the replay booth overturned the field call. It's not much of a normal football move; he's using his forearm to bring down a player with no intent to make a true tackle.
I can understand calling it either way. I don't believe either interpretation is "obvious".
While Ben claims he was getting chewed out by Brent Venables for fraternizing, I can't bring myself to believe that. It wasn't a very close game when the hit happened, but BC was driving and the call contained a big swing of momentum when the fumble went back to BC because of the penalty, and then back to Clemson because of the overturn. Pretty tense time to be in the other huddle joking with the other team. And I don't think Towles (at that moment, anyways) was joking with Boulware about it.
Intent is a big part of our opinion, the word "Launching" certainly opens the door for it. Whether the secondary head jerk (split-second after the initial hit, which I agree initially strikes the shoulder pad) is because of the hit itself, or the elbow actually striking his throat is likely the other major factor in our opinion of this hit. Again, I think the call could reasonably go either way.
I also do believe he plays with a lot of passion. He's a big time playmaker and most of the time he's making solid, clean plays on the field.
I believe this is certainly a "dirty hit", because it's not a football hit, and it's a glancing blow towards somebody's neck.
I don't believe Boulware is a misunderstood kid with an unfortunate reputation; his inconsistent comments after the fact don't reflect that.
Breifly on this point, if Boulware hits Towles in the chest, the inertia of Towles' head swings it forward, right?
That last quote. Wow. Because when considering recruits, one thing football teams like to look at is how good their right cross is. Boulware sounds like a real gem
I'm really starting to wonder what everyone who wasn't a VT fan thought when they saw the video of Dadi Nicolas (very intentionally) hitting the ref against UNC based on all these responses... We've had our fair share of questionable hitters and extra curricular activity over the years.
'Boulware sounds like a real gem?" He says sarcastically. Maybe we shouldn't make sweeping character generalizations about someone based off a few instances...
In your (and others') defense, this is sweeping problem in humanity. Very evident in the way people view athletes, celebrities, and political figures. Very polarizing, love/hate based on snapshots of their life without considering that that people are more dynamic than just a few moments.
Ben Boulware has an awful lot going for him. He's a stellar player, he's got a full ride at a good school and an honest shot to make it at the next level. You've testified his a nice kid with a great family.
He's making bad decisions on the football field. Not all the time, no "large contingent" of his plays are dirty. It only takes one avoidable play to cause irreversible harm. He needs to cut that dangerous play out of his game. He apologized to Lamar Jackson, but can't recognize that he doesn't use his hand/fist to take down Towles, and doesn't apologize to him.
Dadi smacked Ron Cherry and got away with it. That was foolish (incredibly disrespectful to an authority figure) but on a completely different level of physical risk.
I'm not saying I agree with those things, I just don't like the narrative being extracted from it. I would certainly advise him not to do stuff like that. I just don't think it's fair to make sweeping character generalizations based off a few actions on a football field. I am guilty of making assumptions myself, as I posted above, I think it's a real issue with people at large. Everyone isn't making these generalizations, but some of these comments are triggering that "Okay, well I actually know this kid and his family, you don't" reaction and I feel I've been pretty calm in my responses, despite people taking shots at someone I personally know.
You're right, it's not fair to make sweeping generalizations like that, and it was probably a step or two over the line for me to do that. But I'll care more about being fair after our football team plays his football team. In that comment I made this morning, he was an easy target (no pun intended). I apologize if I ruffled your feathers.
No feathers ruffled my friend, I get it. I can assure you, I hope we beat Clemson as bad as anyone.
I've had multiple friends and co-workers who were the nicest, most personable people off the court, but get them in a pickup basketball game and they turned into total a-holes, pushing and arguing and ready to punch or fight at the drop of a hat. A friend of my son's probably ruined his chances to play on a major D-1 college basketball team because he could not control his temper in a game situation (and his grades weren't good either). These are basketball examples, but how much more would this tendency come out in a violent contact sport like football? So just because Boulware is a saint off the field doesn't excuse his behavior on it. My non-succinct 2 cents.
...bloodlust?
I think all of that got overblown, to be quite honest, none of that stuff looked as egregious as the responses have created, and the "punch" was an open palm hit to the chest/shoulder area of the BC QB while he was making a tackle.
No joke, that couldn't look more like a normal pile of football players. I know where he had his arm, but I don't think he was legitimately choking him.
Unless you watch the whole clip where he's trying to choke him the whole way down and doesn't stop even after the play is over and Jackson is trying to dislodge his arm like someone getting garroted. Yup, totally normal stuff there.
you forgot the part where lamar tries to tapout then realizes that's not going to work.
It's really hard to resist the urge to downvote this willful ignorance. It's fine if you say he's a great guy off the field and this was an isolated incident (as well as all the others), but to try and explain it away like it didn't happen. Come on.
I'm not saying it didn't happen, but there are a lot of ways it could have not happened. Lamar Jackson has been quite theatrical when he is frustrated throughout the season. Watch any game where he almost breaks a big run but gets tripped up. Second, with pads, and helmets, and Boulware's enormous arm, it's not hard to imagine there would be enough obstruction to prevent him from suffocating him with direct pressure to his throat in this situation.
Either way, I'm not being ignorant, I'm also not going to pile on. Way worse things happen at the bottom of piles in football games, no need to create a narrative that he is intentionally trying to injure players.
I don't want to intentionally pile on here, but I've seen many football games in different levels of play from peewee to NFL and I had literally never seen a player apply a choke hold at the bottom of a pile before. It was pretty shocking to see and it looked and continues to look intentional. I understand you're attempting to back up a friend but sometimes there really just isn't a lot you can do. Everybody makes mistakes especially in sports. Doesn't mean he's a bad dude off the field. In this instance though, he took it over the line of acceptable things to do on a football field.
Yep, I'm sure ol' Benny Bullyware was just trying to get himself up off the ground by using his arm to pull himself up. Unfortunately for Lamar Jackson, it took ol' Benny a little while to realize a player laying on top of you doesn't make a good pull up bar.
But seriously, Boulware may not be actively trying to hurt anyone but he certainly doesn't try to avoid hurting anyone either. And he's either reckless enough or incompetent enough to put other players in danger unnecessarily on a regular basis.
You can't just use a double negative to remain neutral. You either think it happened or you don't. But based on this video, I think its clear. I can't speak to the guy personally, but I don't think there would be this much backlash on you if even some people completely agreed with your opinion of him as a football player.
I can assure you that a few downvotes because I stated that Lamar's reaction could have been theatrical to some degree isn't going to keep me up at night. We live in the age of the hot take reaction and any and all proof you're going to view through the lens of confirmation bias to what you want to see. He absolutely could have been choking him, but there could have also been some theatrics from a player who has multiple times pitched fits after plays for a variety of reasons. It's absolutely not out of the realm of possibility.
Well I don't disagree that Lamar might be one of those players that gets a little over-excited at times, I don't think theatrics would come out during a choke hold. Like Kirk said in the video, "that's why Lamar should have reacted the way he did." Its one thing to see a center take a flop to draw a charge call. Its quite another if said center flopped as a direct result of being deliberately choked to the ground.
You can't just use a double negative...
Here's the foxsports.com story on it, plus video. (Sorry I suck at embedding photos/vids/gifs)
http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/story/louisville-clemson-score...
I understand you want to defend your friend but he's blatantly choking Jackson.
When your doing this, people are going question your character. Maybe he is great guy off the field, but actions on the field speak louder, IMO.
ETA: Not sure why the Tweet won't embed properly
so what you're saying is...we need to take down Clemson like Boulware taking down a heisman QB? Choke the life out of them until they clemson...er... tap out.
I am not a fan of dirty players. This can get fixed quickly by Wyatt Teller pancaking him a bunch of times.
(Not a fan of dirty players- hence my vitriol directed towards Andrew Miller when he was playing for VT. It is an absolute miracle that he didn't get five late hit penalties a game. He was a dirty dirty dirty player.)
...metaphorically speaking, of course.
Really now? I never noticed that (Miller being a dirty player). Any memorable moments?
He loved hitting defenseless players after the whistle and jumping on piles when plays were clearly over. It was always bordeline, but it happened 20+ times a game. None of it was accidental. In between the whistles, he wasn't particularly good, so that kind of behavior always jumped out even more.
What did you think about Jake "dirty" Grove when he was here?
Never paid close enough attention back then to know definitively. I do know he opened holes better than Miller did. Miller was a decent player, but man... he got away with some stuff. The best thing you could say is "he played on the edge."
Sorry if he's a friend, but every Clemson game I see, I end up commenting about Boulware's dirty play. He may not be intentionally trying to injure someone, but he plays outside the rules.
You clearly made up those Dabo comments as you failed to mention bringing your own guts or any religious references.
Touche...touche, indeed sir. +1
I gotta Dabo harder next time, I guess.
If we lose, my only consolation will be if I see Wyatt JACK THAT MFER to the Moon and plant him in a trench 10 yards down the field -------> multiple times
If we can win the turnover battle and capitalize when we get to the red zone I feel like we have a good shot at this game. Six FGs ain't going to hack it like it did against Pitt, gonna need to put in the end zone.
Living in Clemson country, I want nothing more than to be able to wear Hokie gear all next week and listen to their fans have melt downs on the radio.
Seems like scheme-wise this should be an interesting game.
Looks like Clemson can catch you if you're out of position, etc.
The one clip that was particularly interesting was the Pitt interception.
Watson seemed to be caught off guard there.
That scene repeated itself a bunch, especially early in the season.
So do you think we will be seeing a decent amount of robber coverage from Foster to try and bait a poor decision/INT?
Yes, but it is MUCH easier to play robber when your safeties are not killing themselves to stop the run. You can robber the underneath zones some, but where Watson is vulnerable is thinking he has man and throwing a one read deep ball on a double move. If you have a guy playing deep third, it should be a pick (doesn't always happen-see Kyle Fuller vs Cincy)
So. Keys to the game. Mainly obvious a la Madden, but i'll say it nonetheless.
Offense:
1. Establish the run, but not just standard north-south, mainly east and west. Getting their big line out of position is key.
2. Need to involve traditional TE-type roles / hybrids more to relieve pressure of not getting Ford / Rodgers / Cam the ball on the outside.
Defense:
1. Bottle up Watson. I'm looking for a defensive effort similar to Miami (though we didn't have to account for a mobile QB there).
2. If you can establish no. 1, then mix in exotic blitz / schemes to induce a TO.
JUST KEEP SCORING
JUST KEEP SCORING
EVERY DANG POSSESSION
JUST KEEP SCORING
I'm gonna disagree with this. They are fast on the edge, jet sweeps won't work, their LB's are undersized and quick they have really good corners that will happily crash on the run. Running key should be punch em in the jaw wear em down and get a 2nd level block. Even misdirection to the inside would be nice to get those big boys upfront to over commit just by a step should open some things up. Enough success with that will force their safteys hands.
jet sweep with the rusher throwing a jump pass to sam rogers who sneaks behind the corner coming in for the TFL? It could work once, right?
Maybe that's the play Stinespring was trying to pull off all those years it just never fully developed.
I'm still waiting for the fake reverse, run up the gut for half a yard play to work.
it's designed to gain half a yard...it worked great
I think we're saying the same thing by agreeing we should get their DL out of position, but just how though we are not.
Their DL is massive and getting them to overpursue will get them out of position. Their LB's are quick, but our schemes don't count on our WR's out-running a defender - we get a hat on a hat. So gassing their big line, and having already accounted for their LBs, will allow us to soften up their inside. Misdirection would work too but that comes off of successfully establishing the sweep and not by doing a counter run.
Sorry I've watched this offense too long to remember that you can run an outside stretch play and jet sweep isn't the only way to get the ball outside. I would agree that hat on hat outside the tackle runs/stretches will work the speed plays will be more difficult.
It sounds like limiting the Clemson run game with our front four will be key to keeping the game close or even winning. What do you think our chances of that actually are based on the season as a whole?
Toughest game on the schedule, especially given that some things Clemson does well (deep fades-see Tennessee, containing QB on zone read-see Notre Dame and Duke, quick hitting inside zones-see Duke, playing a physical runner who won't go down at first contact-see Pitt, struggling versus the inside receiver in trips-see Syracuse) are things where VT has struggled defensively. And, the Hokies offensive line (which has been pretty good against quick fronts) struggled against big bruising defensive tackles that eat up blocks. This is, by far, the biggest front four that the Hokies have played. Ferrell is the little guy, at 6'5 265.
Your question was for French but I remembered the stats from Clemson's game with Pitt that they lost and Clemson had 50 yards rushing. On the other hand, Clemson had 580 yards passing and that can't happen either for VT to win. But then again I say that and Clemson lost the game having an astounding 580 yards passing. Probably the 3 interceptions that Watson threw dealt a serious blow to Clemson's chances of winning this close game. One of the interceptions was in the end zone, another in the red zone and the third was returned for 70 yards and ended up being a touchdown for Pitt three plays later. Two of the three interceptions ended up being touchdowns for Pitt.
In all fairness, they had 580 passing yards against Pitt. The same team where we had 3 receivers over 100 yards and FUCK PAT NARDUZZI refused to pull his freshman corners off 1-1 coverage because that was their scheme and our receivers "pushed off well"
Watson threw the ball 70 times that game. 70 times. Unreal.
We were a bigger underdog vs. Ohio State in 2014 --> we can do this.
Gents, don't worry... Fuente just announced all maroon everything for the game. We got this.
I hope our coaches didn't see the film on the Pitt shovel pass. Doesn't seem like it has worked to well for us this year.
"I liked the shovel passes" - Stinespring
So their offensive and defensive schemes are similar to ours. What that says to me is that if we can improve recruiting, there's no reason why we can't be a playoff team. Shit, we recruited half the guys on their team.
I've lived in this hell-hole of a state of SC for almost two years now, and I can honestly say Clemson fans might be the most unbearable fans I've seen. And I went to both of the Bama games in Atlanta.... These people are ridiculous. They have no idea what they're talking about in regards to actual football knowledge and talk A TON of crap about how much better they are than everyone in the SEC, yet you can tell they secretly wish Clemson was there instead of the ACC... And don't even get me started on their infatuation with Dabo........
After the Louisville game, one of their fans said to me "Best game I've ever been to. I've never stood up the entire game and yelled like crazy on every third down play before! That's why our fan base is better than VT's!"
My jaw still hasn't recovered from dropping that far. To say I want this win more than I've wanted any for about 15 years would be an understatement. Don't think we will, but beyond hopeful.
ARE YOU ME?
This is amazingly accurate.
He has a very selective memory because I was at that game and that stadium was dead silent from about 30 seconds into the second half until the last 5-6 minutes of the game when Artavis Scott had a long kick return.
Winning this game would be extremely cathartic.
90% of the people I work with are Clemson grads. They are. Just. The worst.
I really had to bite my tongue when he said the thing about cheering for a whole game. I wanted to go full Bud and rip his head off and yell obscenities down his throat. But I think I won when I just laughed and said "please, please come up for the Clemson game in Blacksburg next year."
I've spent a considerable amount of time in both North & South Carolina and this assessment is accurate. However, NCSU fans rival Clemson fans in this regard... Just as unbearable IMO.
Concerning us as Hokie fans. "Walk softly and carry a big stick".
Just beat the shit out of the Kittens and proceed.
Bowlwere (?) sounds like he might have little guy disease.
Just watched the twitter replay. Yeah he was choking him. Lamar's hand goes right to his forearm. I will watch Saturday night. #10. Did you know that rugby teams devise plays to limit an opposing player's playing time when they play outside the rules.
Ready for the waiting to be over.
If you can get down to Orlando I have a lower level ticket for you.
HokieFireman...was reading some of your previous comments. Sounds like we're in a similar boat. Where did your wife go to Med school? Residency? Fellowship? I (we) too have walked that path and my better half is just starting her career practicing after 16 years of post high school education.
My wife went to Des Moines DO school, residency in Columbus Ohio, fellowship Dayton Ohio and now first practice outside Myrtle Beach SC. What speciality is your wife?
DO school at VCOM;
Residency: TX
Fellowship: NY
First practice: TX
Sub specialty: Hematology/Oncology
I spent a summer working in Surfside Beach with Great Commission Ministries, the church that parents NLCF on campus. Had a great time in that area, albeit 15 years ago.
What do y'all think the mood of this game will be like, as far as
how each team comes out?
Clemson:
Virginia Tech:
Wasn't Rocky the underdog in that movie?
Alabama:
Is it Saturday night yet?