ESPN's draft gurus answered 25 questions on the 2017 NFL draft, and Virginia Tech's two potential high draft picks have some buzz around them.
16. Who are the guys we'll all be calling "freaks" after the NFL combine?
McShay: Myles Garrett is the top all-around physical freak in this class. He'll test off the charts for a pass-rusher. Two others: UCLA outside linebacker Takkarist McKinley and Virginia Tech tight end Bucky Hodges. McKinley has elite speed for an edge guy; Hodges, a former quarterback, is long, fast and athletic.
20. Who are the best pass-catchers in this draft for teams in need of more weapons?
McShay: The tight end class is unusually strong with Alabama's O.J. Howard (No. 23), Michigan's Jake Butt (No. 26) and Hodges (No. 32) all in the Top 32 right now. All three are legit weapons in the passing game. The wide receiver class isn't so strong at the top. Clemson's Mike Williams is the only wide receiver in my top 15, but there's plenty of depth in the middle rounds. USC's JuJu Smith-Schuster, LSU's Malachi Dupre, Washington's John Ross, Virginia Tech's Isaiah Ford, Western Michigan's Corey Davis and Eastern Washington's Cooper Kupp could all be top-60 picks.
Comments
Both look like day 2 picks, unless some team drools too much over Buckys measurables
So... maybe the Oakland Raiders lol?
You mean Las Vegas Raiders.
Last projection i saw had him going possibly to the Cowboys. I know they're not a popular pick with anyone else here, but me being a homer...and him learning from Witten, i feel like it would be a win win.
Being a Skins fan since day 1 I am required to hate the Boys but him, Zeke, and Dak would make for a virtually unstoppable offense for years to come.
Ford would go great with Cooper and Crabtree on the FIRST PLACE Oakland Raiders. Pass on Bucky till he learns to run routes and make catches without falling down, rolling or flipping...
Is 7'5" really enough of a measurable?
You are talking about the size of his hands right? We all know Bucky is 9'8" at least.
So says Jessie Palmer
If both decide to declare early, I see Bucky going in the second and unfortunately Isiah falling to the third. Sidenote: I disagree with McShay here - I like Mike Williams, he's a first rounder to me, but WMU's Corey Davis is a stud and is the number 1 receiver on my board.
Isaiah and Bucky have been climbing boards and getting a lot of mentions recently. I think it a foregone conclusion that they are gone, and good for them. Make money in the league while you can and be a Hokie forever.
That being said, I do not think the WR corps will be barren next year. Cam and CJ will both have another years experience and that group of freshman will be Sophomores or R-Freshman. All we need is three of the following to step up and be productive: (Bradshaw, Deablo, Patterson, Murphy, Denmark, Kumah). If only half of that group can develop, we'll be fine.
i couldn't agree with you more. while everyone was hoping for Ford and Bucky to stay a year, those same folks didn't realize we have a good WR corp behind those two who could surprise us next season. We've seen glimpses of Diablo and Murphy; can't wait to see who'll step up from the next group of incoming freshmen.
We don't actually know if we have a good core behind them. We have a core behind them, but the top 3 guys took so many of the important reps we can't for sure comment on them. I hope it works out, but it's pretty much guaranteed to get significantly worse, assuming we lose both Ford and Hodges.
I don't agree. I think that we've always had waves of young WRs (Isaiah & Cam, Boykin & Coale, etc.) come in a fill the voids. This is actually the first time in a while where that group has any playing time as compared to being true freshman. They won't be individually as good as Isaiah and Bucky right off of the bat, but collectively I don't see the drop off being as significant as if say, Evans was leaving instead of a couple of WRs.
Out of necessity not by design. Just having a ton of WRs behind them doesn't mean any of them are any good or it could mean they are all good, but if the latter were true we'd have seen them contributed more this season with CJF's past WR usage I'd imagine.
Keep in mind this is attempting to be optimistic, from watching film on a few of the guys in our class last year, it seems they have a lot of play-making and ball skills talent, but needed to refine their downfield blocking and route-running technique. That kind of stuff keeps a lot of talented guys off the field in the early going.
I certainly don't expect any of those guys to step-in without a drop-off, but I am hopeful that they have progressed through the season and will make big strides in the spring.
If I'm being optimistic I think we will have guys step up of course. But right now I'm just analyzing it from an objective stand point. Fact is, no one was able to step up and grab significant minutes last season, outside of Carrol I suppose. What film are you talking about that you see play making ability? As far as I know none of the backups really made any outstanding play, and going as far back to high school film is useless, because all the guys we recruit were playmakers in high school.
The film I was referring to was high school film, and I'm not disagreeing with your overall sentiment towards the backup situation, but you can't really say that high school film is useless. Film, along with camps, and drills is exactly what is used to scout these players as recruits. You can certainly see playmaking ability, my point was that route running and blocking are usually two of the things that can keep talented young guys off the field. So I was hoping that those two things, along with perhaps a desire to keep our best on the field at all times, led to fewer snaps for the young guys last year, and not that we don't believe they can be playmakers at this level. All conjecture, but not completely without merit.
It's certainly possible. And I also hope the drop off is not too bad, but this is one of those situations that I didn't even think it is pessimistic to think our WR core will be the weakest unit on offense next year, and maybe the weakest on the team. We lose a lot on the Dline, but I like the depth at tackle, who knows how the ends shake out.
Thats what I am saying though, normally we would have to had played the current group of young guys. This year we were lucky enough not to have to. Furthermore, I think having a ton of WRs behind them is crucial, it reduces the chances of one having to step up. One out of three currently have to be ahead of schedule come game 1, 2017. I like those odds with a full offseason to work and grow under CJF & Co.
The two examples you gave were of the most productive duos in recent VT history...and about 5 years apart lmao. We haven't always had WRs like those waiting in the ranks.
I honestly am flabbergasted that you can even seriously believe their wouldn't be a significant drop off if Ford and Hodges left...like, based on what? Just faith that the players will step up up big time? Ford came in right away and took the spot of top WR. None of the guys could even step up to get significant minutes. There would have to be quite the jump from now to spring for that to happen. I hope it does, but there is no reason to blindly think it will.
Maybe because they stayed for four/five years and thats when the new wave had to come in to take over?? Almost exactly like I said? Its amazing when you actually read things before you respond.
Based on the fact that we have roughly 5-6 players recruited almost as highly (star wise) as Ford and that the odds are in our favor that a few take a step forward. That along with what we do return (Cam and CJ) would be good enough.
Also, you should look into what the word significant means. Assuming Cam, CJ and even a small fraction of the freshmen we have progress, that will be a serviceable group with a more experienced QB. Those factors added together is the reason I so "blindly" think the drop off won't be SIGNIFICANT. Individually they won't be as talented, but the passing game will be just fine.
what single player did we bring in that was rated as highly as ford? I haven't seen one.
Ford was a 3/4* depending on the site, like half of our receiver recruits were in that same company.
Not arguing they are going to be anything like Ford, but he wasn't exactly a big time blue-chip guy.
he was a 4* composite or as close as it gets while being a top 200 player on 247. No one else we've gotten since him has been rated as highly. Deablo is the next and maybe tajh if even is even going to be a WR for us. There is a wide range of 3 *s so someone who just barely missed out on being a 4 I guess is the same as a 3 star with almost no offers?
Ford was a 3* composite, Capehart for this year is a 4* composite. I think they were obviously off with Ford, but I mean you can focus on it as much or as little but you want, but the guys we pulled in last were 3* composite guys with probably a few catching a fourth star on one site or another. At a certain point you are splitting hairs. Additionally, from his own year, Cam Phillips was actually a more highly rated recruit by several sites and very close in composite.
In his defense, we had a pretty long run with lots of talent at receiver. During the Vick era, we had Andre Davis, who overlapped in 2001 with Ernest Wilford, who left after the 2003 season (the last two years we were admittedly fairly thin at WR). David Clowney redshirted in 2002 and played sparingly in 2003, but then in 2004 he was joined by this All-Hokie group: Eddie Royal, Josh Morgan, Justin Harper, and Josh Hyman (redshirted in 2003). And the year after they left was when Coale, Boykin, and Dyrell Roberts stepped up and contributed, followed by Marcus Davis the following year. And in 2012, Corey Fuller, Willie Byrn and DJ Coles joined Marcus Davis as major contributors.
While we haven't always had "top-notch" talent waiting in the wings, we have generally had WRs step up when called upon. Each and every time our biggest names at WR have left (Davis in 2001, Wilford in 2003, the 2004 freshmen quartet in 2007, Boykin and Coale in 2011), somebody has stepped into their shoes and performed at least adequately, and almost every one of them "came from nowhere" to do so. The fact that we have one major contributor (Cam) and an up-and-comer that has seen significant playing time (CJ) returning leads me to believe that we'll be fine at WR next year. We have at least 7 other guys who could potentially step up, and as long as at least two of them do so we're in good shape.
If Ford leaves this year it will be interesting to see what Cam will do as the #1 receiver. He has quietly put up numbers this year that put him near the top in many of the single season school records. He is only a few receptions behind Ford for the season. Currently he is just shy of 1000 yards of total offense and will likely finish the season with over 900 receiving yards.
Even though he'd be the de facto #1 if Ford and Hodges leave, I'd still keep Cam in the role he's in (flanker). He has shown to play it extremely well.
I'd love to see more guys get reps at those positions next season. We might have to, but it could end up being a good thing (keeping everyone fresh with no drop-off in production).
Definitely. Cam's one of the guys I've been most impressed with this year in terms of development. Last year he showed a few flashes of great ability, but overall his play (and catching) seemed pretty inconsistent. This year he's just been kind of quietly working towards being a very good option out of the slot as well as improving his vision down field when he's running jet sweeps, and it seems like it's paid off. The only thing I would worry is that the reason for his great receiving work this season is that defenses have focused more on trying to stop Hodges and Ford, leaving him overlooked across the center fairly often, but either way he's been having a much better season than last year and I think he's in a really good spot in our current system to move forward and keep improving.
While everyone has rightfully hailed Ford as rewriting all the Tec receiving records, I think a lot of people are sleeping on the fact that Cam could actually wind up with the season receptions record this season. He's been gaining on Ford in the last month (more catches in 3 of the last 4 games) and now is only 3 catches behind Ford's current total and 5 catches behind the record Ford set last season.
We definitely have bodies at WR but honestly I'm much less optimistic about their potential production. After losing two, three year starters we we be returning one three year starter, a walk-on who got some decent PT and a handful of catches, and then a bunch of guys with minimal to no game experience. I really think fans typically undervalue game experience. I mean heck, just look at how much Ford and Cam have improved over the past seasons. Also it's yet to be seen if any of the young guys can live up to ACC WR standards. There is some potential there, but most of those guys have a ton to prove. If they were already ready to contribute then we would have seen more of them this year as Fuente said before the season that he wanted more than 3 guys to be getting serious PT. The fact that that didn't happen (outside of C.J.) tells me that those other guys have a long way to go.
Also I'm nervous because I feel like Ford and Bucky complimented Cam well. Ford and Bucky are your 1v1 guys who can win those 50/50 balls. Cam is the ankle assassin who can kills guys in space. Somebody's going to have to step up and be that guy. I think Cam has the potential but he needs some help around him.
Lastly I'm nervous because I felt that Evans leaned on Ford a lot this year when he got in a tough spot by chucking up a 50/50 ball and letting Ford do Ford things. I'm nervous about him not having that outlet next year.
Long story short I'm nervous. I think the potential is there, but it's far from proven. Either way I tend to lean toward being a pessimist. That way I'm rarely disappointed.
It's amazing how winning the Coastal took next year from "second year of rebuilding under a new coach" to expecting a drop-off. I'm just happy to be where we are now!
Also, side point: losing Sam Rogers is going to be as big of a loss as anyone else.
It will be but I'm happy Peoples has shown to be more than capable of filling the same role
My vote is still out until I see him throw a FB pass
"Climbing boards"...most boards are put together by guys whose knowledge of football is playing fantasy leagues and watching Sportscenter.
So the only board I should look at is yours? They are the best way of seeing how the draft will play out without being in a draft room.
INCOMING: Stupid arguments that it somehow isn't better for them to go ahead and get the NFL paycheck.
It is stupid for them to leave for the NFl. Reasons... I am selfish and would love to see them in the same offense with a year under their belt.
Honestly though.... get that cash homie.
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Incoming: Stupid arguments that say "take the money" without any real understanding or thought whatsoever - as if every guy is going to be a 1st round pick and everybody that gets drafted gets rich beyond our wildest dreams - and no consideration of the monetary risk/reward decision involved in turning pro early for most players.
For some guys, it's an easy decision to go or stay. For many, it's not so easy. IMO, Ford and, to a lesser extent, Hodges are in the latter group.
I've heard your argument and it voids the possibility of devastating injury. The money drops from round to round are legitimate, but it's still better than never making it at all because you blow out your knee or injure your spine. They are going to be early round picks, maybe not first round, but that signing bonus is enough to pay for the rest of school and have a great head start in life if the worst of worst happens.
In a perfect scenario, maybe they come back and get 1st round grades. But if in November of next year one or both of them sustains a serious injury, NFL option got them a signing bonus and several weeks of pay, in addition to probably paying for many of their medical expenses. With the staying at VT option, they could be shit out of luck.
There is a reason coaches tell early round guys to leave. Not all guys come back and move up into early first round for the substantial signing bonus hikes, in fact it's pretty rare. If they decide to stay, that's fine and it's their life. But you're not going to convince me in a sport where you can derail a career in an instant, that not taking the money is a better option if you're projected as an early round pick.
You can choose to think I haven't "put any thought into this whatsoever" all you want.
And then you have the Andrew Lucks of the world that are projected 1st overall draft pick, stay in school, and then get picked 1st overall the following year.....
He's certainly the exception of exceptions. You pretty much have to assume in his situation that he was well equipped for life without football and/or was very confident he wouldn't get hurt.
Considering the O-lines they've put around him in Indy, it turned out to be far less of an injury risk to stay an extra year at Stanford.
With the rookie wage scale implemented in the last CBA, it's in virtually every player's best interest to enter the NFL as soon as possible in order to begin working toward their second contract. In fact, later round picks get shorter rookie contracts, which, assuming they are actually good enough to play in the NFL, then can turn into a good thing, since they can get to their second contract faster.
With the current state, coming back to school isn't worth it financially in order to improve by a round; you'd need to be able to jump multiple rounds to offset the loss of a year of future non-rookie wages (since your body is likely to breakdown at the same age, regardless of when you enter the league). The only real reason to stay in school these days is if there are certain areas where you can improve that will significantly increase your chances of making an NFL roster.
That said, I can't see any reason for Ford to come back unless he just likes college, wants to try to make 1st team AA, win an ACC Champ, etc, etc. Those are all very valid reasons in their own right, so if he wants to come back, more power to him. But if you look at it strictly from an NFL career perspective (like most of the posts on here), there is only one decision that makes sense.
Great point(s)!
In many cases it is actually better (if you are going to produce) to go really late than to go in rounds 4-6. If you go as an UFA, you typically get a bonus once (if) you make the squad then you have "snap bonuses" built into your contract. A young man in this position (given that fact that he can produce moderately) stands to make more money by years end than most players drafted in the rounds mentioned above.
Both of these guys stand to make a good amount of money in the next couple of years regardless. I happen to think that Isaiah will be far more productive at the next level than Bucky based on what I've seen over the past couple of seasons. But my opinion has absolutely zero weight in the grand scheme of things... In any event, if those guys are committed to working hard and are confident in their ability to grow and adapt there is no reason they should stay.
Capehart and Farley if they follow through and sign with us will be studs, enjoyed Ford and Hodges but it's money time now if they want it. We have others who can and will step up, they just need experience. Of players already on the roster who redshirted or played sparingly we have a really good talent pool, this class coming in if it stays intact just makes that pool deeper!
I'm just going to say it, I can't wait until they both declare so we can just move on from this debate
True that man and these guys deserve to get their money
Ford and Bucky gonna get paid that big check. Check. Check.
Welcome to the big league boys!!!!! The big boys reload. Cam and CJ should be studs next year and if 2 of the others step up we will be okay. I'm really looking forward to Patterson getting some burn. He has a Mike Williams type game and frame......
My gut says 80% chance Hodges goes pro and 51% chance Ford goes.
Also everyone expecting Carroll to have a breakout year next year... I think he stays 2nd string. I think 1 or more of the freshmen WR take a lot of those Slot WR reps. Capehart most likely.
Carroll is as dynamic as anyone we have with the ball in his hands. I think he starts at slot every game next season.
Yeah Carroll is Wes Welker. Reminds me of Danny Coale, too. Or Ryan Switzer.
seems like a player with a lot of grit, real "first in, last out" kind of guy
a gym rat, if you will. Reminds me of Kyle Korver and Kirk Hinrich.
Prediction... Hodges leaves and Lawson flips positions from QB to "TE" and wears number 25 while becoming the leading Heisman candidate in the ACC.
... but what number would Drew Harris wear once he got here?
So I posted this on the recruiting thread since it's dealt with a recruit's tweet but the rest of my post is a little more applicable here...
So D.J. Matthews tweeted this after winning the state championship. Pretty cool huh?
HOWEVER possibly even more intriguing and more applicable to this thread is Isaiah's mom's response to it...
I hate to even continue this conversation but did mamma Ford just let something slip or was that just a coincidence?