I'm not sure that I have seen a thread on this subject yet. This may be due to the fact that we would love to avoid talking about it. We all would love to have them both back for the 2017 football season. So I will propose the question, what are the chances of our two most dangerous receiving threats, Bucky and Isaiah, are back at Virginia Tech next year? I've heard rumors that Bucky was close to leaving last year and it took quite a bit of convincing from Fuente to get him to stay. Not quite as sure about Isaiah. Just a few questions to think about.
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And they shouldn't wait. Grab dat ca$h mahnee.
This is my new favorite way to spell "money".
His too.
PAY DHAT MAN HIS MAHNE
I expect them both to leave for the draft, and would be pleasantly surprised if either stayed.
Ford, yes... He gone, and has 1st round potential written all over him.
Bucky... He could use another year to develop his game before he goes. He shows flashes of brilliance and he's getting better by the game, but he could use a little more polish. With another year under his belt, with his size and speed, he could have Top 15 potential.
Also hearing rumors that Wyatt has potential as well. He definitely needs another year to develop as well.
I see a lot of people on here say this about Bucky, but I recently saw a mock draft that had Bucky going top 10. This was likely a far end prediction, but I think he's going to get a really good draft grade. Production + Upside + Measurables could land him in the first two rounds.
It's been brought up before . Bucky thought hard last year about leaving , he is now the top tight end in most boards. He needs to develop more sure but no way will him stating another year be a benefit .
I think Ford will leave ultimately but I think he will think much harder than Bucky about leaving.
Bucky wants to be drafted as a WR rather than a TE. If he wanted to be drafted as a TE, he would have left last year, but Fuente sat him down in the offseason and showed him the pay scales for TEs and then WRs in the NFL. The difference was enough to make staying at VT to learn the ins and outs of the WR position a no-brainer for him.
If he truly wants WR money, it wouldn't be the worst idea to stay with the training for 1 more year before going pro.
Sorry but he is not a WR , he needed to refine his footwork for passing routes but that's what is needed for hybrids TE now.
I see no reason he couldn't be a WR in the NFL. Kelvin Benjamin does fine.
Benjamin can catch the ball at a high point though.
I remember there being looooots of speculation and doubt about Benjamin's hands when he came out of college. I'm a Panthers fan so I only really started paying attention once we drafted him, but he definitely didn't come without some big question marks.
Well then it sounds like Bucky might need another year in college to develop this part of his game...
I mean, seriously here. Yes, Bucky is good, and for us he's been absolutely phenomenal this year, but there are still some glaring holes to his game. He's not the best at run or pass blocking, his routes could still use some work, he hasn't developed the ability to high point the ball, and he has shown a patented inability to catch the ball without falling to the turf. Sure, all those things can be taught in the pros, but teams know this, and will not waste a high pick on a player they have to develop to play. That's where 3rd or 4th round talent falls. Yes, he has the measurables to be a 1st round pick, but he doesn't yet have the training to be one, and he could stand to make a heck of a lot more money down the line should he stay at VT for another year and develop his game enough to be that 1st round pick we know he could be.
I promise I'm not trying to argue that there isn't room for improvement with Bucky, but the Saints picked Jimmy Graham in the third round with one year of football experience IN HIS LIFE. Basically because he was a freak size-wise and showed promise. Then they used him as a "TE" the same way we use Bucky as a "TE." A couple things that aren't perfect right now won't scare teams away from spending at least a 2nd rounder on him
I get the need to develop, but there's no reason he can't develop in the NFL. GMs will see the upside of his potential and draft him in the first two rounds and then he can get coached at that level while making a chunk of change.
I know Logan Thomas isn't the best example, but he is an example of getting drafted on sheer potential with very little NFL passing talent. Bucky at least as "God's Gift" to raise his draft stock. Again, I expect first two rounds and he leaves.
You can't teach height, at least according to Jesse Palmer.
Ummmmmm Kevin Benjamin really that's your comparison I don't see it at all
...okay then.
All of this could definitely be said about Bucky right now, just sayin
Saucey Source
I'm not saying that he won't play out as a receiver in the NFL but he will be asked to come in on the line at times to block how most hybrids do.
I tend to think it is a very good comparison, the fact is that there aren't very many 6'5" WR prospects. They will have similar speed and measurables once Bucky decides to enter the draft, and their weaknesses are also similar. IMHO I think Benjamin was probably a little better prospect entering the draft but Bucky may be a little more polished. Also...its Kelvin Benjamin just sayin
My sources told me that Fuente knew that Bucky caught on to what he was saying because he fell down afterwards.
fucking gold.
This one's going to plaid. That's some funny shit.
Took me an entire day to get this...worth it though
Holy speculation Batman!
Not speculation... heard it from very reliable #sauces
#marinades even
If you're projected to picked in the top 3 rounds (by the NFL draft committee) you go. The risk of injury is too high.
This whole thread should be just this statement. Too many people trying to convince (mostly themselves) that there is any reason for these guys to come back if they get a high round grade.
I agree that Ford is gone. I also agree that Bucky could use another year to develop, but he is gone. He will be playing in the NFL as a TE, not a WR, which is what he plays here. His draft stock won't improve all that much when he is "developing" as a wide out
If one or both leave then maybe we can get Lawson on the field as a WR. I fear that if he stays on the sidelines much longer then he may leave the program
Love it.
Well, nothing gets by you, good sir!
via GIPHY
WHAT?!?!?
Please say it aint so!
LAWSON TRANSFERRED?????
Nice edit ;)
You got me ;)
If one or both leave then maybe we can get Lawson on the field as a WR. I fear that if he stays on the sidelines much longer then he may leave the program
He would pair really well with Drew Harris as the feature back, #SAUCES he supposed to be enrolling soon.
My $0.02:
A. Isaiah is gone after this year. he'd be crazy not to.
B. I think Bucky goes as well, especially if he continues on his recent tear (he was a bit up and down earlier in the season). He was slowed by injury some last year and he doesn't want to have that happen again.
Cam will be our best receiver next year with Diablo, CJ Carroll, and Murph in the mix (there are some other WRs on the roster, especially Kumah, but I don't know them as well). The WR recruiting needs we have for next year are evident (I'm sure this scenario is in our coaching staff's recruiting planning).
It will be interesting to see how Fuente uses Pimpleton. I have to imagine we see that speed on the field next year in some capacity, but IIRC the kid is pretty small, so not likely to be much of a blocker.
I assume he will be a jet sweep guy, but that does require blocking when he doesn't have the ball.
Our WR/TE class this year in recruiting is very, very solid. Lasts years was pretty good too. Diablo, Patterson, and Kumah will all figure into the WR situation next year. Denmark and Murphy probably will as well.
I think both of them will have more reasons to declare for the draft than they will have reasons to stay another year. Mel Kiper Jr. loves Bucky, always has, but I think a lot of NFL teams will have to wonder about his ability to block as a traditional TE. He hasn't been asked to do a lot of that this year as he is playing more of a true WR role. This could impact how some NFL teams evaluate him.
The good news is, right now, they both seem very focused on helping this team win! Trying to go 1-0 this week!
That's the only knock I can see on Bucky...his blocking. But I don't think that'll be enough to keep him here for next season.
He also has a YAC of about 0.4 yards total over the last few games... haha... But seriously, he definitely relies on falling to the ground on the catch instead of catching on the run. He also doesn't have the surest of hands, and his route running has a bit to be desired. Right now, his measurables probably sneaks him into the bottom half of the first round, but if he stays another year, he could be a Top 15 or Top 10 pick, easily.
I highly doubt he goes any higher than mid second round. Isaiah is a late first rounder. I don't think either of them has elite speed to go any higher. Staying another year would help Bucky in route running but they will teach him more of that in the pros.
I keep reading this "Bucky falls down" thing, but I wonder if it has more to do with the passes he is tasked to catch than anything else. Those rainbows and fades typically end up being jump balls, possession being the main goal. If Bucky gets a good pass thrown in stride, I would expect yards after catch, but the jumpers? Not so much. Maybe I'm missing something here, though.
He also seems to fall even on the crossing routes where he's hit in stride. But hey, he makes the catch, which is a hell of a lot better than we're used to, so I'm not complaining too much, but I still believe he'd be having an absolute monster of a season right now if he was able to start getting some YAC out there.
I'll go back to my comment from another thread a few weeks ago because I don't think I can say it any better:
Most NFL teams don't draft a true TE now with it being a passing league. Hybrid TE is in demand now , decent blocking is developed .
I'd be very surprised to get them both back next year, especially with Isaiah making noise with the records. April is a VERY long way off in terms of the attention span of sports, though.
I think if/when he declares, Bucky will be a combine star and hopefully a team pulls the trigger to take him on as a project. He could develop more at Tech for sure, but NFL coaches can develop talent, too, as long as the team is willing to invest the time. He may not make first rounder money, but there's no doubt the NFL pays better than Tech.
But as a first round choice in 2018 the bonus would be greater than pay for 2017. Not to mention, he might be able to point to a nice shiny trophy as well if he stays.
I agree that the bonus would be better but it would also be a year longer to wait for the second contract which is where most NFL players make their big payday!
IMO Bucky will leave.
This. Very short-term thinking only worrying about your bonus on the first contract.
David Wilson and a lot of other guys disagree. Sure, you want to keep the long term in mind too, but when you're talking about NFL money, long-term plans are no substitute for money in the bank.
I think you guys are on the same team here, if I'm reading both comments correctly.
He may not make first rounder money, but there's no doubt the NFL pays better than Tech.
So if he went to Bama or anOSU, he'd be taking a pay cut?
That's why I said "Tech" and not "the NCAA", yes.
I'm just enjoying the run we have now. I refuse to worry about this till the end of the season...hopefully. Nevermind, I'm worried now.
Honestly... with guys like Phillips and Devine on the roster, and the recruits we have coming in, I'm not worried about future productivity after Ford and Bucky go pro.
This. Also, Evans. I'm giddy for Year 2 of Jerod. Assuming health, I believe he'll make it a pretty smooth transition to a new WR corps
Well, not just Evans, but also Jackson sitting there waiting to go after he's done, and who knows what else Fuente has up his sleeve. Then also consider Durkin is probably going to start seeing more playing time next year, and then realize we have Capehart coming in, with the potential to start swinging in more skill talent... Oh, and before I forget, we already have 1 4* OL commit for next year as well in Dzansi...
Yeah, our future is so bright I have to wear shades on Thursday night.
we need about 8 more.
I have nothing else to add.
Bad hands is the only thing keeping Bucky from being a first rounder. And he still might be. Both should go.
We have the Drake coming in next year to replace him.
I'm telling you right now:
Isaiah Ford is going to stay. He cares about Virginia Tech, loves his teammates, acknowledges the ceiling the team has, and wants to wrap up his degree.
Bucky was one foot out the door last year before Fuente convinced him to return for one more year. He gone. He as gone as gone could be.
Agreed with both. Ford is much more likely to stay than Bucky.
I get this impression from Ford as well. But when it comes time, he has to think about his future. Also, could depend on how the year finishes. For instance, if we win out, and upset Clemson in ACCCG, and not even make CFP, then he could feel like he accomplished a great deal at VT and would be ready to move on. The degree? idk.
It will be interesting, that is for sure.
I agree the most with this take
Do we know that much though
yes
If they choose to go the draft route, I don't think either will go as high as many VT fans believe.
This can be said about most big time college players outside of about 15 sure-fire first rounders. Draft stocks can be very volatile, but at the moment it's hard to find anywhere putting either guy below the 3rd round and the majority of stuff I'm seeing is 1st-2nd round.
Both in the top 51 Overall and Top 4 by position on CBS Sports Rankings
Bucky red-shirted (unreal on a team with so little explosive offensive players then) and will probably graduate in December- if he hasn't already? If he has a 3rd or higher round grade, he should leave. Ford is a lock to leave- and why not? he is one of the top 5 WRs in America and will interview and test extremely well in Indy.
Remember, when Bucky redshirted, he was a QB. He switched to TE during his RS year after a breakout performance on the scout team.
I don't think Ford will test well. His 40 time will cost him a whole round in the draft.
Money decreases by ~50% with each 32 picks. So a 3rd rounder gets about 1/4th the guaranteed money of a 1st rounder.
The real question becomes whether the extra year will make a difference in where one gets selected.
Bucky is a lock for at least a 2nd round pick on most drafts
There is only one draft that matters. Almost all of the others are just speculation -- and often not particularly good speculation once you get past the top 15 picks.
^This. Top 15 can usually get pegged pretty well before draft day. There can be some surprises as to exact order but by and large you know who the top guys in the draft are. After them it can get dicey. There's some first round talent, to be sure, but really the difference in talent between a late first rounder and an early second rounder is pretty minimal.
Then the Patriots go up and pick their guy and everyone looks around like "Who the hell is that?" only to find he was probably projected no higher than the 3rd round. To their credit, it obviously works but anyone who tries to do a mock draft for them is on a fool's errand.
The draft is just weird like that. When I get into my crazy draft mindset and start putting together a board of my own I have to include players that are projected at least 200 spots below however many picks there are and even then players get drafted that aren't on my sheet.
I know we have some guys that may be able to step in and reach Ford and Bucky like status in a couple years but, man, like someone said above, the ceiling on this team could be unreal if everyone returns.
Otherwise we only lose 2-3 guys on D mostly in positions of depth.
We could make a serious run at the playoff next year if Bucky and Ford return.
And when you think about the guys that would be leaving, it's on the D-line where we have infinite depth, and then Chuck (who would be really tough to replace), but other than that ERRBODY is bak
We're in really good shape with the #4 safety recruit in the country and he probably has the talent to play some role right away if not step right in to starting.
I don't disagree about the ceiling, but lets not minimize our losses next season
We lose two senior Defensive Tackles in Woody Barron and Nigel Williams. I don't consider DT a position of depth.
We also lose Ekanem on the end which is a huge hole to replace.
Chuck Clark while he hasn't been stellar in some instances will also be a tough hole to fill.
I also expect Facyson to at least request a look from the draft
Arguably though, our toughest losses are on the offensive side of the ball, with the potential to lose Hodges and Ford early
Bigger yet though is losing two potentially three starting offensive lineman with McLaughlin and Conte leaving and possibly Teller as well. By season end, that's about 120-125 starts on the line gone.
Not to mention the loss of Mr Do Everything Sam Rogers, and while I like Peoples, Peoples isn't Rogers at this point.
Throw in a veteran experienced backup QB that showed he can step in and provide stability.
One other name that no one is mentioning but if his season continues as is so far may start showing up on these lists is Jerod Evans. All accounts I have seen consider 2017 an extremely weak QB class so if Evans gets a good grade back from the draft I wouldnt be shocked to see him go too.
By my count thats:
Defense - 4 possibly 5
Offense - 4 possibly 8
DT scares me next year. I'm not sure what the scuttlebutt is on Hewitt and Fullwood, but we're going to need them. I don't see much at DT in recruiting, which is surprising.
We will still be razor thin at DE. Hill can step in for Ekanem, but we really need Garbutt to fill in Hill's role.
I'm less concerned about OL, I think Moore and Plantin are ready to step in at OT and we have Pfaff, Osterloh and Petit at OG. Preferably we get Gallo more competition at Center, he has struggled this year.
We've got a lot of bodies at WR, I would hope Phillips can step into Ford's role. Capehart could contribute right away. I'm also eager to see what Henri Murphy can do with more time. There are about 10 more names I could list, hopefully someone steps up....but it will most certainly be a step back for the unit.
I hope that Hunter is getting that Chuck Clarke vacancy illustrated to him every time we talk. If not, move Alexander back there to get Stroman on the field with Facyson at CB.
Looking at the schedule, super excited to see Clemson (with a new QB?) in Lane Stadium.
Almost certainly, and they don't know who it will be yet.
Our starters along the line next season should all be extremely solid. Settle, Walker, Hill, and Mihota should be awesome. Depth includes Gaines, Fullwood, Sobczak, and Dooley.
I also have high hopes for Reggie Floyd at safety, and I also wouldn't be surprised if we move the secondary around more in order to get Edmunds, Facyson, Alexander, Reynolds and Stroman all on the field as much as possible.
Don't we have another Adonis in training, at FUMA or someplace?
Adonis Williamson signed with a JUCO along with 2014 signee Eric Whitehead. I think it's still up in the air on whether or not he while come to Blacksburg next year.
I agree. We're going to find out a lot more about Fuente next year than this year. Contrary to what many negative nellies like to think, Fuente was left with a pretty decent hand to play. Next year's team will likely be less talented and experienced overall.
But I disagree on Evans. He isn't going anywhere.
If they leave, I'll wish them well and root for them (maybe not their team, but for them). They have both represented VT well and being highly drafted is an honor for them as well as the coaching staff.
In some ways it also seems that the transition to new receivers next year and new quarterback the year after would be smoother than a transition to new receivers and new quarterback in 2018.
I definitely agree with this point. If our depths are strong enough that we can make a title run, then I would strongly lean towards convincing all the Juniors to stay and make a huge push, but i feel like right now it's more important to keep the momentum going for our program, so breaking in new WRs and QBs in different years are definitely preferred. Also the earlier we can send some successful WRs to the drafts, the easier it will be for us to improve our recruiting at skills positions
Anybody know how we did the last time with a second year starting QB and Freshman receivers?
I know in 2008 we definitely didn't have a brutally hot game in Charlotte where we lost to some team in purple. And balls didn't bounce directly off of a WRs facemask even though he had 3x hands.
This imaginary situation also featured cheese cloth at OL though.
That was my first live experience with VT football by the way. Whew.
Yeah, but then they got better and good. REALLY good.
Oh yeah that was a great year. Nothing like a party in Miami after a BCS win to cap off your freshman football season.
I'm just focused on going 1-0 this week.
I could see if they don't have their degree yet. I mean they could come back during the spring during the off-season to finish up classes. Otherwise, they should go and grab that cash.
They're NFL-caliber players, at this point degrees aren't a priority for them.
Average NFL career is three years, they're going to want a college degree at some point.
The league minimum salary this year is $450,000. After 3 years they make a minimum of $1.35M, probably more because the cap increases the more years you play. Not exactly chump change.
And, if they flame out and decide to return to school, they can do so easily. At least at VT, unless you are kicked out of school for a violation of rules, you are always welcome to return and enroll in classes, and I'd imagine it's the same deal at many schools, as long as you pay tuition. Which is really easy to do if you put away even a fairly small fraction of your three years worth of league minimum pay.
Bucky after this year:
I dunno about that. Never seen the roadrunner fall down.
This gave me a chuckle, but he did have an amazing game at Pitt. The catch in the 4th swung the momentum back for VT.
I posted my thoughts on Ford on 247...
Ford reminds me a lot of Keenan McCardell who played seemingly forever in the NFL. Same size. Decent but not intimidating speed. Catches everything.
Could stand to improve his strength to beat press-man coverage and maybe break some tackles. The Miami corner did a pretty good job on him. However, even if he gets stronger I'm not sure his draft status would change much.
Selfishly, I hope he sticks around. Congrats and all the best to him if he doesn't.
Re: Bucky, I think he wants out of college and will declare. He'd be a classic Al Davis pick...if Al was alive.
Will wow the scouts with the measurables, and not wow them catching the ball.
I think they are both 35-75 guys.
I think it may depend. See where this year finishes. And other factors, such as Evans. We go deep this year, and lot of returnees, they may stay to try and bring it home next year.
Evans leaving though, would guarantee one or both gone. No way they start over with a new qb.
Wait is there actually a chance that Jerod Evans leaves?
Why not. He is blowing it up and is a Junior. he could jump.
Chance, yes. As a junior he is eligible to leave.
Smart, maybe. He is doing a great job this year, it wouldn't be a bad idea to submit for a draft grade. But I can guarantee that those NFL teams would think better of him if he can perform at a high level for 2 years rather than 1 year.
"True dat"
-Cardale Jones
Eh, he isn't in a pro style offense and would be a development project at best. His down field passes also leave a little to be desired. I wouldn't expect him to grade out too high after one year of FBS football. If you look past his TD-to-interception ratio, I'm not sure he is very appealing to NFL teams this year.
I remember Charley Wiles talking about Macho and Flowers on the old Hokie Hotline show. A caller asked if he thought they would stay or declare. Charley said if they graded out in the first 2 rounds and decided to stay he was gonna wear them out. With that kind of money you can always come back later and get your degree but a college degree is rarely gonna earn you the kind of paycheck the league deals out.
You mean I'm not going to be a millionaire with my BS in Biochemistry?
Better start saving now...
But NFL players with degrees tend to keep more of their millions.
This is true. However these guys are one awkward hit away from dropping several rounds or more.
Proof?
Andrea Adelson recently put out an article on the ESPNACC Blog about Bucky and his "hybrid" role as TE/WR.
Linky
I don't know what either will do, but man it would be sweet to have
them back along with Evans after a season under their belts working together.
I'm almost hoping that they go pro and we have other Hokies to watch on Sundays. I think Ford could be a WR1 if he keeps getting better and that would be big for the program long term.
I know we are very excited about the young prospects coming in, but anyone who thinks someone can just step in and replace Ford is kidding themselves. Loosing him hurts bad. All you ever hear about Ford in the off season is just how much work he puts in compared to everyone else. Reporters and teammates don't keep bringing it up because it's super common to see. His effort stands out. Players don't receive his attention (both in media and on the field) if they have a common skill set. Ford is a really, really good player exceedingly dedicated to improving his craft. You don't just replace that.
All I know is that if Ford does come back next year with Evans, they better start making a #1 banner for the top of the NEZ
My gut tells me that Bucky is 100% gone but Ford comes back....I would totally be happy in that scenario.
I'd say Hodges is ~90/10 gone and Ford is 60/40 stay. And if both go that way, they both probably made the right decision IMO (for entirely differing reasons).
When is the deadline to declare for he draft?
Jan 16
Any idea if there's a deadline for when they can submit for a draft grade? I *should* know this given my obsession with the draft but I don't.
It seems like Mcshay and Kiper have Bucky rotating back and forth with OJ Howard from 'Bama for the 1 and 2 TE in the draft. Meanwhile, Ford has been hovering between 5-10th best WR in this years draft. Not sure what kind of real life impact this has on these guy's decisions but you would have to imagine it pushes Bucky towards going and Ford towards considering one more year. Interestingly, Howard has only had 6 TD's in his four years at Alabama...he is certainly a project TE that would be drafted for his potential.
I like Michigan's Butts better than both.
I actually agree.
I would have to disagree I would totally take our hokie butts over a Michigan butt anyday!
ill see myself out
We talkin' Butts? I'm intrigued