Basically the non-power 5 conferences and independents are considering their own playoff, since it is near impossible for 1 of them to win a national championship. I don't dislike the idea.
Group of 5 officials considering playoff for non-Power 5 teams
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well, that would certainly be another step towards making P5 and G5 two separate divisions, akin to FBS and FCS.
This is why it should have been 8 teams with the 5 conference champions, highest ranked G5, and 2 at-larges from the start.
Exactly.
The current solution is inadequate. What's the point of a conference championship if another team is going to make the playoffs, but not your conference champion?
The eight team playoff addresses the problems of the "We choose the two teams" problem. The four team playoff does not.
but OSU is clearly head and shoulders better than PSU and deserves to be in the playoff over them /s
Why are you trying to start this discussion again?Edit: I'm bad at detecting sarcasmUnder this particular 8 team playoff model it wouldn't even be a debate, that's part of my point.
maybe I should throw a /s on the end there...meant it completely in jest and nothing more. Didn't mean to ruffle your feathers...my bad
Ah, sorry. I think I still have post-playoff debate trauma.
Leg
no worries...I think everyone (myself included) has been a little on edge here lately. Have yourself a few legs and enjoy the game tonight!
Go Hokies!
I don't don't think he disagrees with you. His point is that having a national championship tournament feels wrong if it chooses a team that didn't even win its own conference to the exclusion of the team that did win.
Yeah but in that situation Ohio State would make it too
So we're looking at these teams/seeds (from a mashup of the CFP rankings and champions):
1. Alabama (SEC champ)
2. Clemson (ACC champ)
3. anOSU (at-large)
4. Washington (PAC12 champ)
5. PSU (B1G champ)
6. Michigan (at-large)
7. Oklahoma (Big12 champ)
8. Western Michigan (top G5 team)
Of course, this would probably change if the committee knew 8 teams were getting in. It's easy to put 3 B1G teams in slots 5-8 when you know the rankings don't mean crap after #4. Letting 3 into the playoff at the exclusion of others is another matter altogether. Also, having anOSU and Michigan play again two weeks later would probably ruffle some feathers, a la LSU-Bama redux a few years back.
Anyway, I'm all for an 8 team playoff. 16 seems excessive considering most G5 champs wouldn't merit a place at the table most years (even though some P5 champs wouldn't every so often. Looking at you 2005 FSU). If an independent or 2nd place G5 team makes the case, the committee can choose to give them an at-large bid. Otherwise? Schedule harder and win more.
Well, under this seeding "method" you have come up with, a true Champion cannot possibly be crowned if there's only 1 SEC team in contention. That's just not a fair shake to the greatest conference in the history of all the land and makes no sense at all.
/s
Come on, now.
The SEC team would win that, so there's no controversy.
Totally agree. An 8-team playoff makes so much sense on every level. It would increase the value of a conference championship (assuming that earned an automatic berth), and would be more inclusive to the smaller conference teams as well as teams like PSU and Michigan in 2016 and TCU and Baylor in 2014.
One other added benefit, IMO, would be that hopefully the extra games would be added a week earlier, and help shrink the unnecessarily long gap between the conference championships and the playoff games.
This is exactly why it shouldn't. The fact that it caused the G5 to seriously move on - among several other reasons - makes it a good move, not a bad one.
The next move will be the disintegration of the Big12, ND joining the ACC and the remaining 4 conf championships constituting the 1st round of an 8 game playoff. This would satisfy the biggest resistance point - University presidents who don't want to add an extra game that will push the season into the spring semester and further dilute the conference BB schedules.
LOL...you just lost all credibility right here....ND is never going to join the ACC. They have no reason to join and every reason not to. With OSU getting into the playoff over PSU it has set the precedent that you don't need to win a conference to get a seat at the table. That was literally the only hope at a bargaining chip that the ACC had to leverage ND into the league. That is now long gone. ND will be independent for the rest of your life. And mine.
You lose credibility when you don't read what's written and think in the past, not the future.
If conference championships are incorporated into the playoff, ND will be in the ACC. Period. The only question is who they bring with them.
They're just waiting for the rationale that their old school alumni can't refuse (remember these folks resisted a video screen and club boxes for years).
I'm sorry, I missed the part where its guaranteed that conference championships become an extension of the playoff. They aren't right now. The playoff (according to most) isn't broken. ND is not joining the ACC unless something changes. I doubt very seriously that the change required to force ND to join the ACC (or any league) is anywhere on the horizon.
Doesn't matter what is written. I'm not thinking in the past. I'm thinking about what is realistic. The big12 isn't going to dissolve quietly. The precedent has been set that you can get to the playoff on resume alone without winning a conference. Until the CFP committee declares that a team must absolutely win their conference in order to make it to the table ND isn't going to join any league. And in case you haven't noticed, the CFP committee would be undercutting themselves and their rationale for not picking PSU if they decide to make that declaration. So they're not going to. You're foolish if you think the table has been set for ND to join the ACC.
To add to marcb2's comments...
ND is losing the power that it had back when the NCG shenanigans and BCS were created. Back then, there were seriously contending for the NC and already had their own TV contract. They don't have that same clout today, so there may be some serious leverage to get them into a conference.
revenue sharing. They still have their contract with NBC. They don't have to win a conference to get to the playoff (see: State, Ohio). They would lose money by joining a league. They won't do that. They still think that if they went 12-0 they would get to the playoff. And what's to say they wouldn't? They were terrible this year but it could be argued that if they were 12-0 they would be in the conversation.
Per the original suggestion that conf champ games are the 1st round of the play off..... If you're not in a conf, you can't be in a conf champ game. The rest of CFB has enough clout to get it done if they want.
that is an outlandish suggestion, though....that's the problem. I would agree with it if OSU hadn't just been put into the playoff. But now the CFP committee has set that precedent and if they go back on that any time soon it's going to make them look fickle. It's not going to happen.
They should add a points system to all conferences. P5 ranked opponent gives you x points P5 unranked gives you x points. Non P5 gives you x points and conference games gives you x points.
A 2 loss Penn State team would have never been in the game and 1 loss teams would almost always make it into the conference championship stopping the bullshit that happened this year.
I always thought it should be the 5 highest ranked champions from any FBS conference and 3 at large teams picked by highest ranked. So if one of the G5 champions are ranked higher than one of the P5 champions then they're in.
I'd rather see them lawyer up for inclusion in the CFP (beyond the conciliation NY6 bowl). I think the path to an expanded playoff field runs through the courtroom.
Great!
One step closer to a 64-team P5 super conference.
10 FBS Conference Champs plus 6 at-large teams depending on rankings. WHY DOES THE NCAA INSIST ON MAKING THIS MORE COMPLICATED THAN IT NEEDS TO BE?
Screw the G5s! We need playoff expansion so we can have 8 SEC teams PAWWWWLL!
/s (if even necessary)
Roll tide!
It would be like having a NIT tournament which is still important, just not as important.
Like a bowl game before Christmas
Will Kansas, Rutgers, and UVA be eligible?
Nah, FCS teams won't be eligible.
In theory, until September each year.
This would certainly be interesting. As mentioned above, it would effectively create another level of college football altogether akin to FCS, but I get it, they don't get a fair shot at titles.
Not opposed to this but it's not impossible for them to make the real playoff. They'll never get the same respect for their conference play but schedule and win good OOC while going undefeated and you're in. Houston would have been in this year with their wins over OU and Louisville if they didn't blow it in other games. Western Michigan probably makes it as well if they schedule and beat a better program than Northwestern.
Is that fair? Maybe not. But the path is there if they're willing to take it, and they're going to have to beat those kinds of teams anyway if they're talking about deserving to make the playoff.
I think it could help elevate those teams to get better recruits, which will eventually help them elevate the overall program to have a better shot at the National Title Playoff some day.
Do you really think the undefeated BSU teams from a few years ago (with Kellen Moore at QB) would have made the top 4? I remember the highly unpopular (with the blue bloods) and controversial BYU NC. BYU was undefeated and had beaten some good teams in the reg season. Blue blood conferences (Big 8, Pac 10, SWC, Big 10) and a few independents (ND, etc) had the major bowl bids in hand by Thanksgiving (well those that weren't conf champs of those conferences). BYU was invited to the Holiday Bowl (a bowl created because the current bowls at that time were all blue blood focused) to play Mich. When it became obvious that at least 1 poll would vote BYU as NC, one of the big bowls decided that it would deign to invite BYU but under some very biased conditions. BYU basically gave them the middle finger.
Based on history and how things are currently done, there's zero chance that a G5 team will ever be in one of the play off games. I'm hoping that the G5 play off talk encourages the powers that be to move to an 8 team play off.
Edit: speaking of BYU's NC, their coach from that season, Lavell Edwards passed away, today.
2016 just won't let up, will it?
Reposting, because, seriously
This is revisionist history.
BYU didn't beat anybody good that year. Their only win over a ranked team was 20-14 opening week win over a Pitt team that ended up 3-7-1. They struggled w/ Wyoming and Hawaii and the Michigan team they beat 24-17 in the Holiday Bowl was 6-5 entering the game.
They were barely a top 20 team.
Sounds like another step towards separating the Power 5 from everyone else in the FBS.
My only beef with people saying "schedule harder teams" is that you schedule years out. I mean I think we have OOC games set for 2020 and beyond already. Who knows how good those teams are going to be in those years. We have Penn St and Wisconsin scheduled in 2025....in back to back games. Now this year winning those games puts us in the top10....however who knows how good they will be in 2025. Will they even have the same coaches?? I mean they look good on paper now but what if we run the table that year and penn st and wisc suck then people say "should've scheduled harder teams". There is only so much a team can do to schedule tough opponents. I agree with not scheduling creampuffs all year long but you just don't know. Plus those G5 teams can't do anything to increase the strength of their in-conference opponents. It is what it is I guess.
hopefully this just makes an 8 team playoff come sooner.
Yeah, but we're scheduling Penn State and Wisconsin while other ACC teams are still scheduling a steady diet of directional Carolina and Kentucky schools.
Have you noticed a directional Carolina on our schedule thru 2389?
We need 8 conferences, win your conference and you are in. Not fair but neither is the bcs or the committee they have now. Stop pretending you can't epand because this is about academics, college div I football is a business and you can add one more game. Hell all the lower divisions do it for their playoffs
Not to mention that there really hasn't been a drop off in bowl interest since the CFP started. CFB nuts like me still will watch every game, because I know in a month, there won't be any games to watch. The casual fan wasn't watching all games in the past.
True, my Bowl interest only drops after about Bowl #27.
But that's when the bowls with higher ranked teams start, so I get a second wind, of enthusiasm.
I think another issue is that the conference champions in Group of 5 play in lower bowls. AAC Champ Temple played in military bowl against Wake, while Houston Played San Diego State in the Las Vegas Bowl. Memphis played Western Kentucky in another lower bowl. I think what would make it meaningful would be Champion versus Champion in a Second tier bowl. in 2011, boise state vs tcu played in the Fiesta bowl and was a pretty interesting game before TCU joined the Big 12. I think in the 2004 season Louisville played Boise State (Conference USA champ versus WAC champ) in the Liberty bowl, those were great games to watch for group of 5 teams.
Perhaps if a bowl steps up and comitts some money and puts them in the spotlight on New Years Eve or New Years day and have at least the two highest ranked teams who are conference champions in the group of 5, it would make for an interesting bowl.
There has also been discussion in the past about G5 going to spring ball instead of fall. This might give the G5 playoff more exposure.
I would see this move actually damaging the quality of the G5 teams. They wouldn't be able to get some recruits or would have an exodus of their best underclassmen to P5, because their season is taking place while the NFL combines are going on. Even in the G5 programs, the best talent on teams is likely to see the college game as a necessary audition for the NFL and have zero interest in a degree.
Do this with the FCS and lower divisions I'll be more likely to watch it.
Why not just make it a 2-semester sport?
Play the regular season and conference championship games in the fall.
Then play a seeded 128-team tournament in the spring. 7 more games, one every two weeks, and finish up before exam week in the spring. Everybody wins!
you forgot your /s
No I didn't.
I'll put it in terms that are easy to understand: In year 1 of this plan, every single team will increase their total time of possession.
See what I mean?
Niiiiice!
All for it. Marshall went 12-1 and won the Conference USA back in 2014 and went to the Boca Raton Bowl to play Northern Illinois. Just doesn't seem very rewarding to me.
That sounds like the G5 conferences need better bowl tie-ins for their champs.
Sounds like the G5 schools need to be better.
This might be a bit outside the box, but what about 6 teams in the playoff? Take the conference champs of the Power 5 and the best available at-large in the playoff rankings. Give byes to the top 2 teams in the country (as a reward for their excellence), play the 3 v 6 and 4 v 5 at the lower seed's home field and then take the final 4 teams and keep the system as it is.
Cant give an automatic G5 bid if you're not giving any other automatic bids. This year you'd have Western Michigan in while either the B1G or Big 12 champ still gets left out. That would sit with the masses even worse than the current system.
That's the reason 8 is the easiest, you get all the P5 champs, any Ohio State-esque at-larges, and if a G5 school is good enough there's reasonable room for them too.
You could still to 1st round at higher seeded team's stadium.
Actually, with 8 you could incorporate the NY6 bowls. Using this season as an example:
Sugar Bowl - #8 seed/#15 ranked Western Michigan (Go5) vs #1 Alabama (SEC)
Orange Bowl - #7 Oklahoma vs #2 Clemson
Cotton Bowl - #6 Michigan vs #3 Ohio State
Rose Bowl - #5 Washington vs #6 Penn State
Semi-finals: Fiesta Bowl, Peach Bowl (team placement based on winners of first round)
When I get more time I'll actually pull up how this would have looked going back to the beginning of the BCS because I'm curious about it, myself. Of course that also means adding an automatic seeding for the Big East and then figuring out how to deal with Notre Dame, but I'm sure it'd prove an interesting exercise.
Back around 2010-2011, my buddy and I came up with an 8 team idea. Since it was during the BCS era, it was 6 AQ champs, highest non-AQ champ, and one wildcard spot. Our solution to Notre Dame was man up and join a conference or hope they ranked high enough to get the wildcard spot. If none of the non-AQs were in the top 25, then that spot would become a second wild card.
I also used that formula to come up with a variety of matchups for the 2011 season.
I'm all for anything that makes conference championships the first round of the playoffs.
So G5 is joining FCS?