Haven't seen thread on it yet. For all the hype about having the largest entrants ever, they barely had them in the ring all at the same time. Orton winning is weird, but apparently people are saying Wyatt will win the belt in the Elimination Chambers and pit them against each other.
Side note Cena and Styles put on a clinic last night. I enjoyed Goldberg getting the best of Lesnar again.
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Did the Hulkster beat Andre the Giant again?
Okay, to reply seriously, WWE has a booking problem.
These combined RAW/Smackdown events are always clunky. I will state that I love Smackdowns booking on a weekly basis. Guys feel dangerous and really look like professionals. Then we hit this PPV. Jesus christ. The best match on the card was, with out a doubt, Styles/Cena. Even with the wrong guy (in my opinion) winning, it was still a great match and you'll see AJ at the top still looking strong with Cena which worked before (may get stale depending on how long the feud in booked).
But on to the Rumble. Who looked strong from Smackdown? Literally no one. I know Orton won but the match was dominated by Big Cass, Strowman, and a metric fuck ton of part timers. Maybe you could say Baron Corbin had a decent showing, or Chris Jericho, but the whole show had 0 zest apart from Tye Dillinger making a great entrance at 10.
WWE is slowly diluting their brand for weekly watchers. When the Undertaker was barely able to move in the ring, Goldberg and Lesnar being set up for this epic confrontation that really never happened besides another squash, and great talent like Dean Ambrose was thrown from the ring like a jobber, what are we supposed to look forward to? There is so much focus put onto part timers which leave the full time guys sitting there with no development and getting buried. Ambrose or Zayn would have brought the house down if they won. This is all before WWE again flipped off everyone by shoving Roman Reigns (former GT football player by the way, fuck that guy) down peoples' throats as the #30.
I always think of the Rumble as a way to get someone their shot, someone who hasn't had it. Randy Orton just isn't that guy to me. If the belt holds through Elimination Chamber, we get Orton/Cena again at Wrestlemania? Jeez, that's super exciting and fresh. You had guys like Samoa Joe, Finn Balor, Shinske Nakamura, or even a surpise Kenny Omega or Kurt Angle that would have been lights out to bring in at that 30 spot.
From everything I've heard ***SPOILERS FROM HERE ON DOWN***
Orton will face Bray at Wrestlemania after Bray takes the EC. This was 100% a move by WWE to set up a matchup and storyline that the WWE wanted to bring to the foreground that they alluded to with Harper setting up for Sister Abagail on Bray. Idk, I'm just a little bummed by the overall booking.
I totally agree SmackDown Live looked very weak last night besides Wyatt and Orton at the end and AJ losing was a bad decision. I am an AJ Styles mark on the same level I am a Hokie fan so I am a little biased but I think AJ should have lost it to Cena at Mania. I was in Richmond when AJ won the title and I have tickets for SmackDown Live here in Richmond one week before Mania and didn't want that reign to end, I was hoping to see it come full circle back to Richmond before he dropped it to Cena. God I hope AJ wins the Elimination Chamber and comes back to Richmond as "The Champ That Runs The Camp!". The AJ mark in me wants (c)Styles vs Cena IV at Mania but the logical choice is Orton vs (c)Wyatt. If we get Orton vs (c)Cena XXV then that crushes every aspect of SmackDown Live being the hip "New Era" brand.
Gotta trust Road Dawg. I'm actually hoping for a Cena/Styles build up to EC and Wrestlemania. I would love to see Styles costing Cena the title at EC and they decide to settle it once and for all.
BEWARE OF HOT TAKE: Cena would do way better on RAW. I wanted Enzo and Cass on Smackdown.
Can anyone (without starting a debate) explain the fascination with wrestling to me? Just off going on what on this topic, such as
and
Do people just take it in for the enjoyment/entertainment or do they really think its real? Not to single you guys out solely, just using your quotes as examples, but I feel like everyone knows it fake and scripted but most people I hear talk about wrestling (especially Chad Duke to those in the NoVA area who listen to his show) act/speak like its a real sport and/or think its real. I see people get upset/cry/scream/etc. when one wrestler beats/loses to another and I am just here thinking to myself.... why? I have just never understood the fandom, so if anybody who follows/likes wrestling could explain, that would be much appreciated!
Absolutely no one thinks its real. Do people actually get hurt and put a beating on their bodies... absolutely yes.
For me it makes me feel like a kid again. If the product is bad I won't watch for a while, but I always comeback eventually and it gets me for a while. I go through cycles with it. I suspend disbelief, and feel like I am 10 years old for a few hours.
I get the "feels" you can get from it. Shit, I am seeing Power Rangers movie this March and I can't wait because it will bring me back to my childhood. But I guess where I am coming from is when people say 'OMG I CANT BELIEVE (INSERT NAME) BEAT/UPSETTED (INSERT NAME)!!! Its when people go to that point to where I think do these fans really don't think it wasn't scripted.
Well, it's a lot like watching a cop drama or medical show like NYPD Blue or ER in their heydays. Yes, it's all scripted but it still sucks people in. Also stuff happens where the actors have to improvise on the spot so in a way, it's getting people to take in some theater, it's just more athletically involved than your average play.
For the past few decades, nobody has believed it's real, and no company has tried to assert it's real. That went out with the 80s (but I think the stigma hangs around, hence your question).
Ergo, we treat it like any other obviously scripted show or movie.
I hear ya and I think its easy to compare it to movies/shows, but when I hear fans go "who do you think is going to win?" or "(insert name) has revolutionized the sport of wrestling" I just go.... well one its scripted, so get your hands on that piece of paper and you'll find your answer and two, not a sport, just entertainment.
Well their are storylines that are mapped out for entire years and Vince likes to troll fans. For the most part you already have an idea of who is going to win. No one really is sitting thinking who is going to win. Now when they surprise you it can be a real amazing thing. I was literally sweating last year when Shane McMahon jumped off the cell, never thought that would ever happen again. Thought he was going to get seriously injured.
You watch for those unforgettable moments that you never going to forget.
Also there are great wrestlers and shitty ones. There ones that will amaze you and some that just stink. It's fun getting behind one and watching them rise through the ranks.
Ha, I was just aging myself. Those were the headliners when I watched wrastlin and I probably believed it was real until I was 7 or 8...
fair enough, I see where you were going with that
Glad you asked.
We know the matches have a defined outcome. 100%. We watch it much in the way that "reality" TV is live and unscripted. It has a plot as well. It's two, sometimes 4 or 6 people putting on a show and telling a story with their bodies. A lot of it is suspension of disbelief. The better two wrestlers are at wrestling, the faster you forget it's fake. It's kinda like watching a movie. You know there's a story, and you want to find it out.
Now the people who cry/scream/overreact are largely people who do take it too seriously. Wrestling has been about escapism for a long time and people lose sight of that. The upper quote you picked, refers to technical wrestling ability and story telling. These are guys who are still performing dangerous maneuvers for entertainment. The speed and realism of the moves adds to a performance hence why "put on a clinic" was used. The Goldberg squashing Brock was actually the second point I mentioned, story telling. Goldberg came back to WWE after almost a decade away and beat the biggest, baddest, scariest guy on the card in a minute twenty seconds or some shit after just 2 moves. It was shocking. He basically did the same thing last night. Now anyone with a mind knows that Brock Lesnar is a legitimate MMA fighter and could likely kill anyone in the ring if he wanted to. But the fact that he "sold" everything so well, looked genuinely shocked and almost afraid of Goldberg, I really want to see them have it out again.
It's a lot like watching an acrobatics act, a play, a comedy show or something to that effect. It's about the entertainment for a lot of folks.
Look at some of the big story lines from the past couple of years (for those who don't watch wrestling, if you decide to start, start here for recent stuff):
Kevin Owens and Sami Zayn: These two guys worked up through the indies together (think minor league). Sami was the best man in Kevin's wedding. WWE wrote a story where Owens betrayed Zayn and the two have been at each other's throats since. Both top shelf wrestlers make the story telling and matches entertaining.
Undertaker at Wrestlemania: Called "The Phenom," Undertaker is the most recognizable WWE star that still wrestles on the main roster is supposedly (by story lines) an undead wizard/sorcerer who has sacrificed multiple people to some black god during his time on the show. He is best known for "The Streak" or wrestling 21 times at Wrestlemania (think the National Championship of WWE) and winning all 21 times. Just recently, Brock Lesnar broke the streak which people couldn't fathom. It also gave us this awesome gif.
CM Punk's Pipebomb: CM Punk has been wrestling forever. He was well loved by the "smark" WWE crowd for his antics and promos. He cut a famous promo known as the Pipebomb where he called out everything wrong with the wrestling business today, AT A LIVE SHOW. This lead to the "Summer of Punk" and some ridiculous performances from him before he quit WWE.
Daniel Bryan Vs. The Authority: To give you an idea how ridiculous a lot of these story lines become, a wrestler literally challenged the bosses to a wrestling match (more or less) to make them quit forever. This would be like Fuente saying "If you can beat me at the 40 meter dash, you can coach the team" to Cam Phillips. Daniel Bryan was an atyipcal wrestler from a physical perspective and has really broken down the walls for wrestlers who don't look like Hulk Hogan. This lead to Bryan being one of the most loved wrestlers of all time. He had his career cut short by a neck injury and has now joined the bosses as general manager, not before moments like this.
This video (DO NOT WATCH AT WORK, it's a youtube video but probably frowned upon by most HR offices) does a decent job of explaining it if you sifted through my bumbling explanation.
This is the best synopsis of wrestling I think I've ever seen. Shit, I'd probably binge-watch it if it was on Netflix.
Also, how many well-known Hollywood names were in that surprised me (and having the women act as Triple H and the other wrestlers was genius, imo). Thanks for sharing that!
WAIT....It's not real?!?!?!?!
I had a good time with a few people watching Sunday night. Free beer and everyone bought into the pot, got assigned wrestlers numbers with some side bets. Without the money and the booze I'd probably never watch but hey I came out even on a side bet so it was a good time.
Me, I'm sick of Lesnar.
And Charlotte.
Charlotte is just being a good heel. Lesnar is a little boring.
No denying that Charlotte's a good heel. But can't the writers let her not be champion for longer than 1 month?
And ever since Lesnar came back from UFC and his billed weight became 268 instead of 295 like before, I have the hardest time believing he's completely unstoppable in the ring. Yet they still push him as "The Beast" and even have much bigger guys bounce off him like pinballs. That's why he's boring to me, and I completely agree with you on that. (For some reason, he was booked to be more vulnerable when he was younger and bigger.)
I loved the billing when he first came back. Literally ripping of a car door was dope. But it's really stale that whenever he comes out, he just clears the ring. I also am a little salty that he broke the streak. Worst decision of the decade in my opinion besides Cody Rhodes change to Stardust (don't get me started). Brock had 0 need to break the streak, he was always red hot and will always get a pop. It was a huge missed opportunity to put someone else over. Hell, give it to Bray or Balor. Both of them are heir apparent to the "Spooky Ghost" persona on WWE.
And Re: Charlotte, the belt swapping is ridiculous on RAW but at least Smackdown is having fun with Bliss.
Re: Brock - I was also done with him once it be came apparent he would only be around for the big 4 PPVs (RR, WM, Summerslam, Survivor Series)... but they STILL PUT THE BELT ON HIM. Like, I think 2 straight PPVs went by at one point and the big belt wasn't even in the mix. You can tell it's only money for him now.
I'll admit I wasn't that sold on Alexa Bliss at first (because I wanted other women to be champion before her)... but she's running with this thing. She won me over a little bit.
I take it that you don't watch NXT? Bliss was gold in NXT while vying for TV time with Bailey, Sasha Banks, Charlotte, Becky Lynch, Asuka, and a few other big names. She has the best reactions and had one of the best heel turns I can remember.
I watch NXT, but probably not as much as I could or should.
In the interest of name dropping, I was a bit disappointed that Naomi lost her push some time ago and had hoped she'd get another one sooner than later.
Give SmackDown Live a shot. Added bonus = 100% Roman Reigns free. I don't even go out of my way to watch Raw on the DVR anymore.
I watch both. There are still some performers I like to watch on Raw, but Smackdown is the much more creative show.
Anyone else pissed Samoa Joe debuted on Raw tonight as HHH's (bitch)enforcer to take out Rollins instead of debuting in the Rumble match as a SmackDown Live superstar.
I think either way, I'm happy for Joe. All things being equal, the pop he would have received as the #30 entrant would have been ridiculous. He could have done the same thing as Roman and received double the effect. Reigns eliminating people did nothing for his character or the brands so it was a little disappointing. hell, I didn't even watch RAW last night, I saw the highlights this morning and was all "weeeeelllllll shit." It's a good role for him though. It's Seth's old role and the two of them should work ridiculously well together.
Also sets up the option when Balor comes back for a Rollins Balor team up and sets up some really good faces on RAW.
I just have a feeling this sets up Joe as a stepping stone for Rollins at FastLane and that comes with Joe losing his first big PPV match. Only way I see Joe winning that is HHH costing Rollins again, there is no way Joe beats Rollins clean at FastLane.
Rollins re-injured his knee on Monday night. This pretty much kills the angle. I wonder what they will do with Triple H/Samoa Joe.
I think you're getting worked, my friend.
WWE.com is the only outlet reporting it - if it was legit, we'd likely have heard about it already.
Wrestlezone
PWInsider
Wrestling Observer
Fox Sports
Now, if they're ALL in on a work, give them a Primetime Emmy right now.
Yeah, I spoke too soon.
Usually WWE.com isn't the one breaking news like that, which is why I was initially skeptical.
why the hate for roman? i mean hes boring but you can hear on tv all the boos im just curious
He's. Handed. Everything.
He's John Cena 2.0, can't drop a decent promo, and Vince loves him because he's a big sweaty man.
There are so many other guys who have been wrestling and putting in time way longer than Roman, but Roman is cutting the line. Look at the Shield, how he came into the wrestling world in a significant capacity. The Shield was CM Punk's baby and he made the concept. He wanted Rollins, Ambrose, and Chris Hero. Management wanted Roman instead.
Fast forward to the Shield's split. Who kept their entrance music? Not Seth Rollins as he pulled the backstab, no Dean Ambrose who was pulling more weight in the promos, but Roman Reigns who was literally the muscle hamster. Rollins and Ambrose also worked through the minors for years. Go look up Tyler Black and Jon Moxley. Ambrose was in CZW and if you've never seen that promotion before, stay away from it. It's one of the more brutal shows out there. Reigns has also been using PEDs and was caught, slapped on the wrist, and came back to a title shot. That's fucked up. Adam Rose was bounced from the company for LEGAL prescription meds. Roman has been handed everything and pushed because he has the look. He's the reason guys like Tyler Breeze and Neville get buried, there's no room at the top for great wrestlers, just the guy who is gonna sell the most merch.
He was pretty hot after the Shield breakup, but he got injured and Ambrose used that time to really shine and win fans over. That's were Reigns lost all his momentum, and people were pissed that Ambrose was getting buried when Reigns returned.
Long story short, pushed too hard too fast.
I don't want to be told who to root for. I like faces and heels, I will cheer AJ Styles regardless to whether hes the noble babyface or the chicken shit heel, same goes for Rollins, Samoa Joe, ect....... When it comes to Roman his in ring work is good but on the mic he comes off as such a lame ass hole. Most of everything he says is cringe worthy and ends every sentence with "Believe That!" We get it Roman you were in The Shield but that doesn't make you cool. At least that's how I see it.
In one gif,The Rock gets booed as he tries to push Roman. Look at the reaction.
It could be a work and if it is WWE has gone to great lengths to sell it because I have read that he is being evaluated in Birmingham today by Dr James Andrews.
Edit- this was supposed to be a reply in the mini sub thread about Rollins injury.
Injury is confirmed as real, not kayfabe.
Article.
I haven't kept up with Pro-Wrestling for years, but one of my favorite Royal Rumble matches was the one in 1995 when Shawn Michaels and the British Bulldog were #1 & #2 into the match and went the distance.
I was always a Shawn Michaels fan, even when he turned heel feuded with Brett Heart (Another of my favorite matches was the first Iron Man match, when they went to Sudden Death because neither had gotten a pin or submission at the end of the hour).