In the latest installment of the UNC academic fraud scandal, UNC has refused a public records request by a local CBS affiliate claiming...wait for it...that they are not a university, but a public law enforcement agency and therefore must be compelled by a court order to disclose information.
Just when you think they've perfected the art of ducking the consequences of completely circumventing the rules, they up their game. Who knew that a "respectable university" could just claim whatever the hell they want no matter how easily full of crap said claim is? I think they saw this comic and thought, "You know, that's not a bad idea..."
In other news, I'm actually a diplomat from Laos and therefore have diplomatic immunity so Imma do whatever the hell I want.
Comments
As long as they are good at roundball and making NCAA money, they skate...
after reading the article, i think this is more of someone not understanding that the law only applies to law enforcement agencies who have composed the criminal records rather than the subject of the criminal record. Basically, they saw that a public records request can be declined if the record is criminal in nature...BUT they didnt catch the caveat that that only works if they themselves are the law enforcement agency. I am no lawyer so I could be wrong here.
As I university, I personally identify as a Toaster
Idk how many of you have followed the Cam Johnson transfer story, but the way UNC fans, in the midst of all their allegations, claim Pitt is classless for not "doing the right thing" and letting him transfer there is laugh out loud funny.
None of the articles actually show how the record request is phrased. The statute is written pretty broadly, it exempts "any State or local agency, force, department, or unit responsible for investigating, preventing, or solving violations of the law." I am assuming that UNC's argument will be that this involves a state "department" or "unit" that was investigating potential violations of the law. Not knowing the law on this, seems a stretch but will be interesting to see if it this is actually litigated to a decision or not.
By doing these things, UNC is royally fucking over the NCAA when it comes to their cases in not paying athletes. Wonder which hill the NCAA would rather die on, not paying players, or turning their back on UNC's academic fraud.
Did someone say diplomatic immunity?
"It's just been revoked."
- Roger Murtaugh
"Dude, wrong kind of 'diploma'."
- UNC's extremely high friend (soooo, IDK...App State?)
that might not be such a smart move.
law enforcement agencies are subject to Corrupt Organization laws and since there is a blatant pattern to coerce, solicit or otherwise compel services to pass these kids in fake classes that could spell RICO to a very creative legal team. Not that NCAA would do that but if UNCheat somehow proves they are a law enforcement agency and someone convinces the AG to prosecute according to the letter of the law. that would be bad news for a lot of people.
anyway, I expect nothing less from them and sackless John Swofford
Keep in mind there may be different definitions of a "law enforcement agency" for FOIA versus Corrupt Org laws (I do not know if that actually is the case).
yeah i am sure and that's agood point. either way there are likely statutes against any type of public agency
but all speculative given the situation
BUT CAN YOU MAKE STICKY RICE?
All kidding aside, this is some 'above and beyond' scumbaggery. And the more I think about it, the less surprised I am. NC is on some roll these days.
No wonder all their players want to be Hokies.
I hear the #NC2DoC movement is picking up steam...
The UNC scandal is quickly becoming the academic equivalent of the Baylor moral scandal. Both should be severely disciplined. Baylor more so, obviously, but still....geesh!
The ncaa should only punish league violations like academic fraud. It has no business punishing for actual crimes like they tried to do with Penn State. Leave that to the real authorities and the actual court of law
I disagree, as the same actions could violate the rules in both the criminal and the sports-league environment.
One example: if you take drugs, it could be an NCAA violation AND a criminal one.
Fair point. But sexual misconduct has no on the field advantage
Facilitating a culture where it becomes known that anything goes and there are no repercussions does.
Not to mention using university resources to hide arrests and investigations. Using coaches and employees to intimate victims.
This is the coup de grace for me. In both cases of Penn St and Baylor it was the abuse of power aspects that made me want to see every reasonable punishment enforced. If that meant legal and then NCAA punishment, so be it. The NCAA is an organization and it can remove schools from that organization and determine the requirements of participation within that organization, so if they want to dole out punishment for legal crimes a school can cooperate or GTFO. They push too hard and run the risk of several schools leaving and forming a separate entity, but that is very unlikely given the amount of TV infrastructure the NCAA has and the overall lack of interest the fanbase would have in a split college athletics world.
Ehh, when they actively manipulate the legal system to prevent charges coming down against men within the program to either keep them on staff and actively coaching or to prevent the automatic suspension to students that comes with a charge, allowing them to continue playing, I'd say it gives them one heck of an on-field advantage.
With that standard, any and all misconduct by an institution results in an on-field advantage and is subject to the NCAA.
If that misconduct is directed by athletic Personal towards helping athletes then yes.
That's a bit more specific than the comments above. But ok. But what if they're just getting better grades than they deserve, but would still be passing and academically eligible otherwise.
Is that an on-field advantage? I don't think so.
My main concern is that a lot of folks are results-oriented - let's punish these schools because the result is right. You may be happy when it's a different school that gets hammered but I doubt anyone would be happy about the NCAA's wide scope of powers and application if it hammers VT.
If it was discovered that VT was doing all of the nefarious crap that Baylor has been doing, then I would conclude that VT's priorities were ridiculously skewed and would welcome the Death Penalty from the NCAA on top of any criminal charges if it meant excising the rot and infection from the program/school. There is no place at any school, especially VT, for what Baylor has been doing.
Let's all use this opportunity to take a moment to pray that there are no skeletons in any of our closets. I believe that our program is and has been clean, but if it can happen at a place like Baylor/PSU/UNC, it could happen here.
I agree. I would certainly want to clean house after something terrible like that, but the death penalty or even sanctions from a non-athletic issue don't seem fair.
I agree with you. I've been vocal in similar threads about the differences between criminal activity and NCAA related activity and been downvoted.
We can't keep secrets anyway. Remember the uproar when it was discovered that Bud was fining players? We're overly harsh on our players not overly easy.
Agree entirely. Have just seen enough schools get in enough trouble for things that seem to pop up out of nowhere. I think any fan of any big school college athletics program has to be mindful of the potential that the hammer could fall from out of nowhere at any time.
I think UNC should get absolutely hammered. Because they cheated, but even more so because they've been so brazen about the coverup and obfuscation.
remember how it took a couple years to find out that Shane received inside info in a game we lost 6-3 in double overtime?
And then there's this gem (warning, it's a read).
Here's a summary by The News Observer.
Jesus, they're obtuse.
Will post at the end of the comment, academic advisors were looking for special accommodations for their student athletes in email to get these classes done over the summer.
"We aren't saying we are not ethical, we also aren't saying we are ethical."
That's literally cheating the system. I know people get mad at red tape and bureaucracy, but sometimes, especially with degree requirements, it is there for a reason.
There are 18.5k undergraduate at UNC currently. UNC has 28 mens and womens athletic teams. Let's guesstimate here and say each team has roughly 40 members (things like golf and fencing offsetting things like football) that would be roughly 1120 athletes. Even if it was only 30% athletic enrollment, athletes are 6% of the campus population yet they are grossly over represented in these paper classes
.
This is super tenuous. There is the classic "Rosa Parks" paper. UNC fans all say that it was a draft, the tutor says it was definitely student work, but unsure if it was a draft or final submission, but if it is supposed to resemble a 20-25 page paper, that is fucking horseshit.
I'm done with these assholes and I'm already late leaving work. This is a biased website but actually has some really cool info (email, analysis, etc.) on the paper classes that are at the heart of the story. http://www.bluedevilicious.com/fake--paper-classes--at-unc.html
No doubt UNC is going to put the system on trial.
Or any other kind of double-talk they think might work or delay things.
Ooops! Now it's too long ago and any sanctions would punish the wrong people.
Then it's a clear lack of institutional control
At this point I think it is safe to reasonably argue that it is no longer a lack of institutional control but because of the pattern of continuous obstruction and the creative means by which UNC has avoided punishment speaks to the Direct Control of the institution by those who are responsible for getting the University into an investigation and by those who are continuing the effort to avoid punishment.
Bingo. Its almost like UNC is challenging the basic definition of the LOIC charge in that it can't be LOIC because they know exactly what they're doing. They're essentially saying the NCAA can't touch them because they don't have the bylaws to act upon schools who organizationally manipulate the system to their own benefit.
So if UNC is now a law enforcement operation does that make the students the inmates???
i realize this is /s
but it does bring up the oft debated topic of student athletes being employees. in this case, if UNCheat proved this how would they not be employees?
all around a stupid, scumbag move
Shame is a graduate level class.
Has a prerequisite of Morality.
EVERYBODY RUN!
So if UNC is a law enforcement organization and not a university then the NCAA should immediately remove them from the NCAA membership and outlaw their participation in any athletic programs.
Just so tired of this mess, it has been going on what 8 years since it was discovered? UNC is now arguing that the statue of limitations has expired on some of the offenses.
They're really hoping nobody notices the circular logic.
Using the defense "We've been arguing so long you can't really be mad at us anymore." is a really poor defense.
Poor, but apparently effective
yep, results speak for themselves. Since this mess has been going on, they've landed a prized up and coming coach in Fedora, lured in countless high profile recruits, won march madness, and haven't been punished in the slightest except for a self imposed post season ban where the players got rings anyway.
If it didn't work, they wouldn't do it. And this is really NCAA's last chance to flex its muscles otherwise future offenders will scream and yell and point to UNC as a reason that what they did is not punishable.
http://www.newsobserver.com/opinion/op-ed/article22823382.html
Great pics in the News and Observer but one thing really stood out to me and concerned me greatly.
Why in the hell have the schools allowed Swofford to remain in power so long with his Tobacco Row centered and NC centered view and vision for the conference.
I can't really knock his vision for the conference.
He helped make the ACC a power 5 football conference, got a decent agreement with Notre Dame, and is currently working on an ACC Network deal.
The ACC are the current champions in both football and basketball (and the football contenders aren't in North Carolina).
We can knock the guy for his focus on North Carolina, but the ACC has been a success by any measure I can think of.
And the saga continues.....
http://abc11.com/2237476/
Did you hit the report a typo link for how they misspelled UNCheat too?
What's funny is that they'd MUCH rather it besmirch their academic reputation than bring NCAA sanctions.
NCAA due to release its findings and potentially its repercussions on the UNC case tomorrow at noon.
See article here
I'll believe it at 12:05.
Lol, that's what they said last time
Unless it rains.
Huh, would you look at that, they've scheduled a chance of rain just before the release
Report officially being released at 10am per Feldman.
Since a great deal of what UNC has done is actually not just unethical, but illegal, I could quite honestly see them pleading the fifth amendment because their individual testimony "might tend to incriminate them".
The sad part is this won't be over because you know UNCheat is going to appeal and put the whole think back on a new timer.
Have you seen the report?
Or, maybe UNC is that stupid, considering the quality of their classes offered.
No, I hadn't I thought it came out at noon, just saw the other thread. Just wow...