Bud Foster is the best defensive coordinator in the country. In my opinion, he has been held back in recent years because he hasn't been able to field as much raw talent and athleticism as he did back when Tech was fielding number 1 defenses. After the assistant coach staff changes under Beamer (Loeffler, Shane, etc) and now the new Fuente regime we have seen Foster be more successful at bringing in his targets.
We have spent a lot of time talking about the depth concerns along the defensive line and in the secondary, but are we sleeping on the talent that Foster has in his "starting eleven"?
I believe that this defense could be a great one for Foster if he can keep his guys relatively healthy. Tim Settle and Ricky Walker could be the best run stuffing duo we've seen up front in a long time, and Vinny Mihota's size makes him formidable against the run at defensive end. Mihota did a good job at pressuring quarterbacks last year and Trevon HIll could be poised for a break out year.
I also think the linebacker position is the strongest it's been since the Hall/Adibi years. Motuapuaka has years of experience at Mike and makes the solid plays. Tremaine Edmunds is a beast and could have a special special year at backer.
Mook at whickel is my favorite player on the team, a game changer that is so good I think he's single handidly doomed the Whip position to a novelty that will only be used against Power-I teams. Mook presents so many problems on the perimeter and is so capable in pass coverage I don't see how Foster ever goes back to a third linebacker as his base defense.
The corner position is overlooked. A senior Brandon Facyson, with Greg Stroman and Adonis Alexander... that's pretty strong to me. Adonis has the skills to take the next step and I love his size when he comes up in run support. Terrell Edmunds at Safety is a future NFL player according to Bud (and I agree). Devon Hunter has the chance to come in and start at Rover as a freshman. He has the potential to be really, really special at that position.
Call me crazy, but I think a top 10 finish for this defense is absolutely feasible.
Comments
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Yes. The only weakness I see is at Rover based on how that rotation works out / Devon Hunter picking up the position. I remember I think it was in 2010 when we had every position coming back except for Kam at Safety and that ended up being the place where offenses picked on us. So it remains to be seen.
A bit easier to hide a Rover than a Free Safety though.
That was 2007. Fantastic Defense.
Ellis, Booker, Powell, Martin on the DL
Hall, Adibi, at LB
Macho, Flowers at CB
DJ Parker at FS
That season the Martin/Grimm combo took over at Whip and Kam was a first time starter at ROV. I remember them getting schooled by LSU but no other team on the schedule was able to take advantage of their inexperience, except maybe Matty Ice in BC's first match up with us.
We finished the regular season 11-2 as ACC Champions and a #3 ranking before that bowl loss to Kansas (still finished top 10 in the polls IIRC)
I loved Powell-Booker, but Settle-Walker's upside is much higher.
Those guys are and were so underrated. The DB's and LB's got all the hype on that defense but it was those guys in the middle that pulled everything together. That being said, I agree that Settle is a step up and Walker is at or above their level too. Lots of potential on the roster this fall.
Matty Ice and the Boston O didn't do shit on us till that last drive, so I wouldn't count that as picking on us at all.
Grimm was not good in 2007, I still have nightmares about him getting picked on by Kansas.
Not sure I understand what year you're referring to. 2010 was the year where had like 2 starters come back on defense. The end of the 2009 season was when Kam left.
Orion86 clarified for me, that was 2007 defense not 2009 / 10.
I think the problem is what happens when there is one injury or guys need a breather. The two deep is very thin. I don't really have much confidence in anyone on that second string.
Agreed. The reason we lose games (defensively) is due to depth. Never really schematically.
Nice.
It was that or "Nip"
Nipple?
#NIPITINTHEBUD
This stuff is good stuff!
Front 7 is going to be beasting this year against the run and secondary is as good as we've had in awhile. The worry like you mentioned is injuries.
#Nipisfullydipped
#FullyNipped
Janet Jackson is #TeamNip
Always has been.
Can't believe I just left that one on the table.
Don't deny my #FullyNipped Pussy Touchdowns.
How is Mihota's shoulder?
I also like this defensive parts, guess it's all about fitting together. I know it is John Madden quality commentary, but it is the offseason and I just have this nagging sense that they figure it out AFTER Septermber 3rd, which makes me sad.
If someone besides Vinny answered that question definitively, it would be a HIPAA violation.
Disagree.. he likely he authorized release of football-relevant medical info as part of his scholarship agreement since the team issues a press release describing his and other injured players' condition... Of course Fuente's injury reports are so vague (and nonexistent in the offseason) that there's pretty much zero detailed info beyond 'injured'
Also HIPAA only applies to healthcare providers (doctors/nurses & their offices) and managed care providers (insurance companies). If some random person sees my x-ray & radiologist report laying on a table they are perhaps morally obligated to not look at it / not talk about it, but there is no legal requirement for them to not tell anyone about the contents.
JPP/Schefter mess is relevant. Settled out of court.
http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2017/02/giants_jason_pierre-paul_espn...
I doubt he sued under HIPAA since HIPAA doesn't provide for a private cause of action (aka an individual suing for money/damages). But the article is relevant as to issues of privacy versus reporting on medical conditions (and particularly providing related documents).
As a former Epidemiologist, you are correct sir!
There is this as well. Virginia (like many states) doesn't allow those that get sensitive information from health care providers to pass it along:
Link
The article is about employers, but it seems a Virginia statute probably applies to Universities releasing health information about an athlete. But, as you mentioned, I'm sure they contract out of this.
I was thinking the same thing about Vinny. He was a force on the field. I never heard how bad was it injured, but I do believe he had surgery, right?
All I know is way back when, I sustained a Grade 3 shoulder separation (playing intermural softball, nonetheless) in May, had the reconstructive surgery, and even had to have the incision reworked to have a blood vessel carterized, and by September (same year), the shoulder was pretty much at full strength. This was 30+ years ago, with no formal rehab whatsoever, except working out a little on my own. Granted, I wasn't playing P5 football after the surgery, but based on when he likely had the work done, and as long as he didn't have any setbacks, I think Vinny should be good to go in the Fall.
The secondary could be beastly, and as long as Mihota can stay healthy and Gaines can come back, I think injuries are the only thing that could prevent this defense from being top-15
Injuries will always be talked about on this thread (we can afford 1 at each position besides backer and safeties) on every thread throughout the season but this year's defense has legit 1st Team All ACC talent at every level. Hill will have a breakout year now that he has the experience, the Edmunds brothers are legit NFL talents, our corners could all be 1st team ACC if they play to their potential. And Mook in his hybrid role is as dangerous as anyone. Top 5 talent wise in the country, just gotta play Fosters/Wiles disciplined techniques.
FTFY
Bud's defense usually puts up good numbers against first year starting QB's, and we will see a bunch of those this year. If we can generate a pass rush with our front 4 this could be a special defense.
If we aren't getting pressure with our front four something is seriously wrong.
It's been documented by French, and I happen to agree, but this front may not generate the pressure we would all like but they will be really good against the run.
That's ok. I'm all for opposing QBs throwing pick 6s.
Believe we only face 1 returning starter this year.
Maybe I'm crazy, but I'm a bit less bullish on this year's team, especially at corner. We all love Stroman, but unless he grew 3-4 inches since last season, he's still undersized and can be a liability against a team with big, athletic wideouts. The man's got heart, tenacity, and skills, but his physical limitations may prove to be a thorn in our sides against certain teams. And Facyson's got too much injury history for me to get too geeked up about him. It just doesn't seem like he's ever regained the form he showed in his Freshman campaign, after his injuries. I certainly hope I'm wrong because, in addition to wanting to see VT win, I would also love to see these two outstanding young men succeed, but I worry about our backfield more than usual this year.
I think Facyson and Alexander are going to be huge. Toss in a healthy dollop of Hunter and I feel wonderful about the secondary. I don't think Stro was ever the center piece of the defense and I don't get the hype.
Before the angry mod shows, I love Stroman but he is super matchup dependent. Look at him in the Tennessee game if you want to see an offense scheme that picks on a corner back. I also think Bud has been doing some of his best work. I really think Fuente has brought him back to an elite level since he left the familiarity of having Frank there and I really enjoy watching his calling.
I always thought VTGM is a rather pleasant person.
Well, at least until someone suggests that VT hire Rich Rod.
What's the story behind the seemingly universal hate for Rich Rod here? Is it just because he coached at WVU, or did he do/say something Narduzziesque?
It all started after Frank announced his retirement and there were rumors that he could be the new HC. Here are some old threads that can help explain...
RICHROD COULD BE FRANK'S SUCCESSOR?
HOW LONG WOULD IT TAKE HOKIE NATION TO EMBRACE RICH RODRIGUEZ?
ESPN SUBTLY FANS THE FLAMES ON RICH RODRIGUEZ TO VIRGINIA TECH RUMOR
#SAYNOTORICHROD EXPLAINED
Basically he coached at WVU (and fit their culture well), he wouldn't have been a great coach here (as explained by French in the last thread), and he's a total douchebag.
SCHokie2011, thank you for the links, but I can't possibly go through and read all of those sections of hundreds upon hundreds of comments to get context. I did read French's post and reasoning, which made perfect sense from a football standpoint. However, there seems to be a very personal distaste for RR. I'm certainly not disagreeing with it, because I've been reading TKP for a while now and love the community, but I must've missed wherever this is coming from...again, don't disagree, just looking for a quicker summary as to why it feels so personal (other than he coached at WVU).
*clears throat*
He has a cancerous attitude for certain types of players, fans and administrators. He has had the NCAA sniffing around since WVU. HIs coaching style in no way fits VT football. He just isn't a good coach compared to what was out there to hire. He doesn't really give a crap about the fans, he wouldn't hold a spring game last year. O and
you left off all the personal stuff. While I agree with everything you say, i would not want him near our program even if he was a good coach.
.... THERE it is. Thank you Fireman.
While were catching people up. What is this gif from that you always use?
It's from RichRod given to fireman to use whenever his name is mentioned /s
That gif is a scene from the movie "Look who's talking now" which, by far, is one of, if not, the greatest Danny DeVito movies EVER!!!! If there was ever a defining moment that captured the glory of an actor's lifetime achievement, it is that film that reigns supreme in DeVito's illustrious career! /s
I know that RR was irrelevant to the thread, and that I conflated VTGM with VTFM. I was just shamelessly fishing for that funny gif response.
Meant mob. Love me some VTGM.
I know, just trying to make a funny, Nerd. We love you.
If you look at the statistics for the entire season instead of cherry picking Stroman's worst game then you'll see he was statistically the best corner on the team. That's pretty much the opposite of "matchup dependent".
I'm too lazy to find it but ESPN put out an article last year around the time Stro got hurt that showed that he was statistically the best corner in the ACC. Honestly UT and OSU round 2 were his only real tough games and even then there were only a few passes each game that he got beat on (they were just very memorable ones). Stro will never have the physicality and overall athleticism of someone like Adonis but he's as smart and fundamentally sound of a corner as a guy can be (which is saying a lot given how much he has position hopped in his time at Tech).
The article you are referring to, which I had in mind when making my comments on the topic, is here.
Mod won't show for having an opinion about who our best DBs are and why one of them isn't. Now if you start speculating on grades, character, family, substance use, etc. you might. It'd be after the community corrected you by itself, though.
You are wrong about Stroman being undersized. He is 6'0" which is the same height as Kendall Fuller and taller than Kyle Fuller who was 5'11". Stroman was on pace to be the best corner in the ACC, giving up only 30% completions. Maybe with this context you won't worry quite as much.
I think that a big part of Facyson's Freshman year was that he was an underrated newcomer starting in a very experienced/talented secondary. He shared the secondary with junior safeties in Bonner and Jarrett directing traffic, a senior Kyle Fuller for most of the year, and very talented Kendal Fuller, and had Antone Exum in the meeting rooms all year even though he only played in three games (Kyle played in 7 games and I believe that Tone's 3 games coincided with the part of the year he missed). The experience and talent around him meant that Foster and Gray were able to put Facyson in a position to succeed by playing to his strengths, namely his ability to quickly come out of a backpedal and break on thrown passes. As French put it in his review of the 2013 ECU game:
The coaches were able to take advantage of teams avoiding the more experienced players in the secondary by disguising the coverage a very talented freshman played. French goes on to praise Facyson's reaction time and closing speed on a play where a receiver breaks off a curl route short and doesn't gain any more ground because Facyson has stopped his backpedal and covered the 7 yards between them in the time it takes the ball to get from the QB to the reciever. The next play of the game is his first interception. French narrates it as:
French also went into really good detail the week before, in the review of the Western Carolina game about Foster and Gray using a triangle concept with Bonner, Ke. Fuller, and Faycson to confuse QBs.
None of this is intended to say that I think Facyson hasn't been a good corner since then, just that he is being asked to play a different role with different players than what was asked of him as a Freshman. I would argue the opposite, that while the flashy stats, interceptions and passes defended, have been lower, this is a result of QBs not targeting him as much because they have more respect for him than they did for him as a Freshman. I haven't been able to find 2016 numbers, but going into the bowl game in 2015, he was the 4th best corner in the ACC in terms of completions allowed per target at 34.1% (Clemson's Mackensie Alexander led the conference at 31%).
I'm trying to temper my enthusiasm only because I remember the last time we thought that the D was going to be dominant, and we had a down year, partially due to injury, part due to inexperience.
2015 hurt, literally. All of the players we couldn't afford to get hurt, did get hurt. Brewer, Baby Fuller, and Dadi (he just wasn't as effective with that hand injury).
I had almost forgotten what that internal screaming was like.
That's a pretty good representation of how I remember feeling that season.
Are Jimmy Taylor and Darius Fullwood going to be a lot smaller than our usual DT's? And will this be a good or bad thing? Is Burke a DE or DT because he is bigger than Taylor and Fullwood. The DE and DT positions after this recruiting class could potentially be loaded up with bodies just like the ILB and OLB positions.
Here we were talking about Nips and you go Fullwood on us.
I have no clue what you are talking about and it worries me that my question can't be answered, we may be in some trouble on the DL.
I got your back. Our Defensive Line depth is definitely an issue, no doubt about it. While I think our starting four (Hill, Settle, Walker, Mihota) could be the best unit against the run we've had in a long time, if we see one or two miss significant time it could cause a multiple issues. Foster might have to run and pass blitz more, opening us up on the back end.
If they stay healthy though, and this front is as good against the run as I expect, I think Foster and his secondary staff have a great plan to attack offenses locked into passing situations. Hopefully Tech can keep our big guys up front healthy.
I think unless you're Bama, or maybe one of these other ultra Top Tier programs, depth is going to be an issue at alot of positions. Generally, most programs are dependent on not having too many injuries at positions where they may be thin. If they can stay healthy, they'll generally have a good chance at being successful. Well, unless you're LOLUVA....
Captain Obvious
I know this post is about this season, but can anybody make me feel better about or cornerback depth past this year?
Bud Foster stayed at the Holiday Inn Express last night?!?!!?
Corner is a position where players have typically been able to come in and compete right away if they're talented enough, especially if they have other experienced players in the secondary with them. Assuming no one leaves early, we'll presumably have Edmunds, Hunter, Adonis Alexander, and "whickle" Mook Reynolds returning in 2018. Behind them there are several underclassman waiting for their turn and there's always the possibility that a true freshman comes out of nowhere; Ke. Fuller and Facyson both started as true freshman and I don't think anyone was expecting great things from Facyson until we started seeing clips of him from the spring practice prior to his freshman year.
The Defensive positions that I typically worry the most about following departures of upper classmen are in order Mike, Free Safety, and Backer. We seem to be stocking up on talented linebackers the last couple years, so Free Safety is a bit more of a concern, but we already have some options for after Edumunds leaves including Deablo and Hunter
I think the key is do we get any help from incoming guys at DE. The backside is solid with depth when you add guys like Shegog ,Newsome ,Floyd and Stroman . If we can get the 2 deep up front where we can rest the 1st teamers some ,this D can be very good . Playmakers like Mook the Edmunds brothers plus Alexander ,Facysom and AM give Bud a lot of playmakers with experience that we have not had in a long time .
I'm not sure if this is general knowledge and I missed it or not but I just saw Brandon Facyson at Kroghetto with a cast on his arm :/
Hopefully that's the annual injury out of the way with plenty of time to heal before the season
Haven't seen this on any of the sites that I frequent.. Hopefully this isn't a big injury, but it must be fairly recent.
Hopefully something minor.
No disrespect intended, but this is what I call Training Camp Disease (TCD).
TCD is loosely defined as only seeing your team due to a lack of actual games, and convincing yourself that because a player is the best at his position on your team, he's really, really good.
That being said, I do believe the 2017 defense can be solid. There's no All-Americans on there, but we should have a stout front four and lots of experience at all three levels. And for a bad ass mofo like Bud Foster, that's more than enough to work with.
You trippin. Devon Hunter is a guaranteed unanimous first team all American.
Training Camp Disease (TCD) will get a turkey leg from me all day long! hahaha
You call it Training Camp Disease. We called it ringworm back in my day.
The only obvious weakness in Bud's defense is lack of depth at DE, DT, CB. If Foster is able to create solid depth at those positions in case a starter goes down, the defense could be special this coming season.
I agree. These are the spots, along with LB, that when we lose someone and dont have the depth our D tends to look like a shadow of its former self and it doesnt take long. All the spots you named are pretty thin. Not including the incoming freshman we have 12 bodies on the DL, including walk ons and several new at the position, and we need 8 ready to play. I count 5 and I believe three of those missed the spring with injuries. Counting on a true freshman to be ready is kind of a long shot if you ask me, but if we have a Luther Maddy in the class that would solve a lot of problems. Its not a dire situation but it could get that way quick.
CB is just about as worrisome. We have good players there but not many of them. Is Ladler going to play corner?
As far as LBs go, we have a seasoned backup at Mike in Huelskamp. While he doesn't have the raw physical ability that Motu has, he's a R-SR with game experience who I think Foster trusts to run the defense. At Backer I believe Shegog would probably be the next one up in an non-garbage time situation this year. There are also a lot of highly rated options coming in this year, our 2nd and 3rd highest rated recruits by 247 are listed as OLBs, and we had 2 other LBs in our more typical .85ish range furher down the list.
Tavante Beckett will most certainly be the #2 option at Mike.
Certainly possible, but my overall point is that if the primary backup at Mike is anyone other than Huelskamp, it means that Foster has a lot of trust in them to be in the right place at the right time. He's repeatedly shown that he is willing to play a walk-on at mike over a scholarship player with a higher level of physical talent if the walk-on has a better understanding of the defense and what they should be doing.