Dang. That really stinks. He seemed like he had a good head on his shoulders. I think he originally wanted to major in engineering but ended up switching.
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Hand was the top recruit In the country, yet when I watched him in person, he was the third best player on the field (Levenberry and McMillian.) Other misses (Nnadi) have left me much more sleepless.
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I'm sure Saban will say it is unfair to do anything until after he has his day in court. The real question is do they delay his court date based on the football schedule, or when the biggest fan is scheduled to be the judge?
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Whether is should be a crime or not (that is not for me to say).... I know in Virginia that if you are in the driving seat, have the keys in your possession while still intoxicated whether passed out/sleeping/sitting in your car not driving with car off, you can still be given a DUI/DWI only because you have the keys on you..... its dumb but its the law
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Why? Over 10,000 people a year die from a DUI related accident. In fact our DUI laws need to be more strict, mandatory jail time, no license until completion of classes and jail time, no plea to lesser charge, lower acceptable BAC to 0.05 or lower.
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more strict in some states I agree... not all.... Virginia changed the laws back in 2012 and throws the book at you. Not saying what I got wasn't deserved but some of it seemed money driven too for the state
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I agree, DUI laws on average could be made stricter, since driving under the influence is dangerous to anybody on the road. However, he was not in a position where he could cause a wreck, he was sitting in a parked car in a parking lot sleeping it off. Unless evidence surfaces showing that he drove the car to said parking lot while drunk, why should he be arrested for a DUI when in all actuality he was trying to do the responsible thing by not driving?
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Why don't we let the details come out rather than debate based on conjecture? The report I read states he was in the driver's seat, the car was running, and headlights were on. Sure it still doesn't mean he had been driving but that's far different from him sleeping in the back without the car running and the keys in his pocket. In my opinion if you are for tougher DUI laws then I don't see how you can give someone the benefit of the doubt in that situation.
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I've been in this situation before, in Blacksburg, no less. Had to take a nap for a few hours in a Pizza Hut parking lot to sober up before driving home, I think it was. Papa Johns was next door, I think, and I bought a pizza at like 1 AM, ate my fill, napped, and drove home safely on empty roads at like 5 that morning. Probably still had a BAC over the limit but felt fine enough for a short drive at a slow speed on empty roads.
If you want stricter DUI laws, read up on what Germany does. They don't f*ck around.
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Traffic laws are overall much stricter in Europe, and Germany is among the strictest from what I remember. I honestly wouldn't mind us adopting a lot of their rules, but I highly doubt it'll ever happen.
I also had a situation where I hung out in my car drunk in Blacksburg, decided I'd had more than enough at the bar, called a friend to come pick me up, and waited in my car until he got there. When he arrived, he told me that I could have gotten a DUI from what I was doing, if a cop saw me and wanted to be a jerk, which to this day I still find ridiculous.
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our DUI laws need to be more strict, mandatory jail time, no license until completion of classes and jail time, no plea to lesser charge, lower acceptable BAC to 0.05 or lower.
Stricter laws and harsher punishments don't always deter undesired behavior (see the entire war on drugs). There's a lot of other ways to manipulate people into not doing something bad.
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I'd also say the same for texting while driving. I swear, nowadays when I see someone swerving in their lane, going 5-10 mph under the speed limit, and just acting like a general idiot on the road, they have their face buried in their phone when I pass. That is just some seriously dangerous behavior that is not taken seriously at all right now as a nation.
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This is an interesting case. No one likes drinking and driving, but it seems to me Hand is getting punished for doing the right thing - or at least not doing the worst thing. I suppose he could have called a friend or Uber and left his car. I have a problem with the law treating someone who is sleeping it off with the engine off and the keys out of the ignition, the same as someone who is actually driving drunk.
I'm no fan of Bama or Saban, but I don't know Hand, what kind of character he has, or any of that, so I'm not going to criticize whatever Saban does. However, there is a case to be made that a leader doesn't put himself in that situation.
My friend is a Noles fan. He was over last night yelling, "Suspend him for 1 game!" Lol.
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To be fair, the engine was running. However, knowing that this is Tuscaloosa in July that we're talking about, there is a decent chance that he just wanted some AC. Obviously we shouldn't pass judgement until the facts come out, but there's a decent chance that he did nothing wrong, aside from not knowing how the law is worded.
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It is my understanding he was behind the wheel with the engine running. In my mind, even if he was sleeping it off that was a dui. Sucks, but that is my opinion.
If he was sleeping it off with either the engine off (keys out of ignition) and behind the wheel or in passengers spot (maybe even with engine running) than no DUI. At least in my mind, in either of those two cases he was not a threat to be operating the vehicle imminently.
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In my mind, "threat to [start acting in a dangerous manner] imminently" kind of crosses a line, and that line is "intent". Our legal system is not in place to judge based on intent, only actions.
I can kind of see where you're coming from, as it could be considered foolish behavior in the event that he woke up and thought he was more sober than he actually was and started driving or whatever, but I really don't see the issue here. Agree to disagree, I guess.
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I had a good friend get a DUI for sleeping it off in the back seat, engine off, keys in the pocket. If you're in the car they will bust you the same as if you're driving and swerving off the road. A damn shame cause it mostly encourages people to drive drunk
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He dont care 247 has him listed as like 84th top player in cfb this year having never started a game. Going of hs Measurables still even though some kids have caught up physically.
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I am honestly kind of torn about this whole thing. I'm all for second chances, and when you take all the facts into account, I can actually see Saban's reasoning. BUT. I can't help but wonder if Li'l Nicky would have been as forgiving if Hand was not a projected starter, and their opener was not against FSU.
This is a moral test of oneself...
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There has been no public evidence that he was ever driving drunk. The official report says that he was arrested for sleeping in a car parked in a parking lot with the engine running (which can easily be explained by wanting AC in Alabama in the summer). Assuming that is all it was, and that he didn't drive to said parking lot while drunk, I'm praising his decision-making too, and have been questioning why it should be called a DUI in the first place, since the D ("Driving") apparently wasn't even a thing.
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I had a VA state trooper address this to a group of my friends and I. We had a friend get a DUI for sleeping in the running car in a parking lot. He simply said it was fine to do as long as you do not cut the car on. Operation begins when you cut the car on. We argued that it was cold out and the heat should be on. He explained that once the car is running, you must be in control of it and a drunk person would not be considered in control, considering he had to sleep it off.
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When I started driving at 16, my father (now 82 years young) told me to always keep a blanket in the car. I never understood why until I spoke to the trooper.
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I know a friend that was charged for the same thing. A party broke up and he was sleeping it off in the car. Fought it under the premise that it was the more responsible decision and judge didn't care. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense because it basically rewards anybody that chose to drive away but didn't get caught. It is tricky though because I know a lot of people that would only stay in that cramped car until they felt ok, not necessarily below a safe or legal limit.
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I mean, he made the choice to not drive while he was drunk. If that isn't good decision making I don't know what it. Now is bad choice was to sleep in the driver's seat instead of the passenger's seat.
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How do you know he made the choice rather than passed out before he could get he car in drive? I believe this is why the law is written that way. I don't know it has been mentioned that in general the US does not punish intent, but there is a law against attempted murder, which one could argue someone does when driving drunk, so I understand why there is a crime for what Hand has done.
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"Attempted murder" generally involves actions that could easily severely injure or kill someone. Sitting in a car with the engine on is not likely to have the same effect, unless you put the car in gear, which there is no evidence that he did.
Anyway, fun fact, I had a friend in high school in Virginia that was charged with Attempted Vehicular Homicide for driving 104 down I-64 in his Kia. The charge was dropped to Reckless Driving (which, PSA, is the standard charge for speeding by more than 20, or for driving above 80, whichever is lower), and he was given a $1,000 fine, a 10-day suspended jail sentence, and his license was suspended for 6 months. I assume that the charge was reduced and the jail time was suspended only because he was a minor at the time.
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I understand why it is illegal, but just from an individual morality assessment from me, I would never think that his actions were reckless enough to consider it attempted murder. I just think that there are many people in here that either didn't take the time to read what happened, or are being too harsh on someone that by all accounts was being responsible and just sleeping off his intoxication with the AC on.
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I assume the reason the law is written that way is so you can't get out of a DUI simply by pulling over and parking. Charging you with DUI should demand a little judgment, though. If there's no evidence or indication that you drove, you shouldn't be charged with DUI.
For me, he gets the benefit of the doubt and shouldn't be suspended from playing.
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Comments
Never woulda happened in BBurg... /s
That sucks, bet he gets pulled for the game against FSU. He's a starter this year too.
EDIT
21 tackles and 2 sacks as a junior....really. 5 star.
Like he isn't stacked up against other 5 stars at bama though
I don't doubt it. I didn't elaborate on purpose because I don't know his specific situation at Bama. I still find it interesting on many levels.
He's been behind Jonathan Allen who was arguably the best player in the country the past couple years.
(allenus jonathanicus)
He played behind Allen and Tomlinson at Bama, hard to crack the starting line when the guys in front of you are a 1st and 2nd touch pick.
His recruitment still stings, he would have been a Beast at Tech.
Hopefully learns his lesson: when you think you're not that drunk, you are.
I swear to drunk I'm not god.
I'm not as think as you drink I am.
I'm waiting for Too Druck to Funk to get in here and own us all.
Wwwha?
Sorry I missed this - ironically, I'm drunk on vacation.
(Technically, at the moment, I'm hung over on vacation...)
Dang. That really stinks. He seemed like he had a good head on his shoulders. I think he originally wanted to major in engineering but ended up switching.
Hand was the top recruit In the country, yet when I watched him in person, he was the third best player on the field (Levenberry and McMillian.) Other misses (Nnadi) have left me much more sleepless.
I'd rather have Nnadi and Ferrell than Hand and Sweat. EJ Levenberry flamed out and left FSU for UCONN. McMillian has been an OK P5 running back.
DUI AINT PLAYED NOBODY, PAWWWWWWWWWWWL
I am sure Saban will look into it after the nolie opener...
I'm sure Saban will say it is unfair to do anything until after he has his day in court. The real question is do they delay his court date based on the football schedule, or when the biggest fan is scheduled to be the judge?
I bet he sits out for just the kickoff against the Criminoles
He will serve half a game suspension...he will stay off the field whenever they are on offense. That'll teach him.
I just heard yesterday on Finebaum's show that he was sleeping in his car. He was parked in a parking lot but had his keys with him
Heard that too. Doesn't seem like it should be a crime.
Whether is should be a crime or not (that is not for me to say).... I know in Virginia that if you are in the driving seat, have the keys in your possession while still intoxicated whether passed out/sleeping/sitting in your car not driving with car off, you can still be given a DUI/DWI only because you have the keys on you..... its dumb but its the law
Why? Over 10,000 people a year die from a DUI related accident. In fact our DUI laws need to be more strict, mandatory jail time, no license until completion of classes and jail time, no plea to lesser charge, lower acceptable BAC to 0.05 or lower.
more strict in some states I agree... not all.... Virginia changed the laws back in 2012 and throws the book at you. Not saying what I got wasn't deserved but some of it seemed money driven too for the state
I agree, DUI laws on average could be made stricter, since driving under the influence is dangerous to anybody on the road. However, he was not in a position where he could cause a wreck, he was sitting in a parked car in a parking lot sleeping it off. Unless evidence surfaces showing that he drove the car to said parking lot while drunk, why should he be arrested for a DUI when in all actuality he was trying to do the responsible thing by not driving?
Why don't we let the details come out rather than debate based on conjecture? The report I read states he was in the driver's seat, the car was running, and headlights were on. Sure it still doesn't mean he had been driving but that's far different from him sleeping in the back without the car running and the keys in his pocket. In my opinion if you are for tougher DUI laws then I don't see how you can give someone the benefit of the doubt in that situation.
Let this be a lesson to everyone. If you need to sleep it off in your car, do it in the passenger seat or the back seat.
I've been in this situation before, in Blacksburg, no less. Had to take a nap for a few hours in a Pizza Hut parking lot to sober up before driving home, I think it was. Papa Johns was next door, I think, and I bought a pizza at like 1 AM, ate my fill, napped, and drove home safely on empty roads at like 5 that morning. Probably still had a BAC over the limit but felt fine enough for a short drive at a slow speed on empty roads.
If you want stricter DUI laws, read up on what Germany does. They don't f*ck around.
Traffic laws are overall much stricter in Europe, and Germany is among the strictest from what I remember. I honestly wouldn't mind us adopting a lot of their rules, but I highly doubt it'll ever happen.
I also had a situation where I hung out in my car drunk in Blacksburg, decided I'd had more than enough at the bar, called a friend to come pick me up, and waited in my car until he got there. When he arrived, he told me that I could have gotten a DUI from what I was doing, if a cop saw me and wanted to be a jerk, which to this day I still find ridiculous.
Stricter laws and harsher punishments don't always deter undesired behavior (see the entire war on drugs). There's a lot of other ways to manipulate people into not doing something bad.
I'd also say the same for texting while driving. I swear, nowadays when I see someone swerving in their lane, going 5-10 mph under the speed limit, and just acting like a general idiot on the road, they have their face buried in their phone when I pass. That is just some seriously dangerous behavior that is not taken seriously at all right now as a nation.
Amen brother! Asshats
This is an interesting case. No one likes drinking and driving, but it seems to me Hand is getting punished for doing the right thing - or at least not doing the worst thing. I suppose he could have called a friend or Uber and left his car. I have a problem with the law treating someone who is sleeping it off with the engine off and the keys out of the ignition, the same as someone who is actually driving drunk.
I'm no fan of Bama or Saban, but I don't know Hand, what kind of character he has, or any of that, so I'm not going to criticize whatever Saban does. However, there is a case to be made that a leader doesn't put himself in that situation.
My friend is a Noles fan. He was over last night yelling, "Suspend him for 1 game!" Lol.
To be fair, the engine was running. However, knowing that this is Tuscaloosa in July that we're talking about, there is a decent chance that he just wanted some AC. Obviously we shouldn't pass judgement until the facts come out, but there's a decent chance that he did nothing wrong, aside from not knowing how the law is worded.
It is my understanding he was behind the wheel with the engine running. In my mind, even if he was sleeping it off that was a dui. Sucks, but that is my opinion.
If he was sleeping it off with either the engine off (keys out of ignition) and behind the wheel or in passengers spot (maybe even with engine running) than no DUI. At least in my mind, in either of those two cases he was not a threat to be operating the vehicle imminently.
In my mind, "threat to [start acting in a dangerous manner] imminently" kind of crosses a line, and that line is "intent". Our legal system is not in place to judge based on intent, only actions.
I can kind of see where you're coming from, as it could be considered foolish behavior in the event that he woke up and thought he was more sober than he actually was and started driving or whatever, but I really don't see the issue here. Agree to disagree, I guess.
If the car was off, he would've had to leave the windows cracked...
I had a good friend get a DUI for sleeping it off in the back seat, engine off, keys in the pocket. If you're in the car they will bust you the same as if you're driving and swerving off the road. A damn shame cause it mostly encourages people to drive drunk
He dont care 247 has him listed as like 84th top player in cfb this year having never started a game. Going of hs Measurables still even though some kids have caught up physically.
No suspension. "Community service and other internal punishments."
Saban (straight face) praised Hand's decision-making.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/alabamas-nick-saban-dash...
I am honestly kind of torn about this whole thing. I'm all for second chances, and when you take all the facts into account, I can actually see Saban's reasoning. BUT. I can't help but wonder if Li'l Nicky would have been as forgiving if Hand was not a projected starter, and their opener was not against FSU.
This is a moral test of oneself...
There has been no public evidence that he was ever driving drunk. The official report says that he was arrested for sleeping in a car parked in a parking lot with the engine running (which can easily be explained by wanting AC in Alabama in the summer). Assuming that is all it was, and that he didn't drive to said parking lot while drunk, I'm praising his decision-making too, and have been questioning why it should be called a DUI in the first place, since the D ("Driving") apparently wasn't even a thing.
The actual charge includes words like "operating" which to turn on you are operating.
I had a VA state trooper address this to a group of my friends and I. We had a friend get a DUI for sleeping in the running car in a parking lot. He simply said it was fine to do as long as you do not cut the car on. Operation begins when you cut the car on. We argued that it was cold out and the heat should be on. He explained that once the car is running, you must be in control of it and a drunk person would not be considered in control, considering he had to sleep it off.
So in summary keep a sleeping bag in the boot, or roll down the windows, but don't operate.
When I started driving at 16, my father (now 82 years young) told me to always keep a blanket in the car. I never understood why until I spoke to the trooper.
I know a friend that was charged for the same thing. A party broke up and he was sleeping it off in the car. Fought it under the premise that it was the more responsible decision and judge didn't care. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense because it basically rewards anybody that chose to drive away but didn't get caught. It is tricky though because I know a lot of people that would only stay in that cramped car until they felt ok, not necessarily below a safe or legal limit.
I mean, he made the choice to not drive while he was drunk. If that isn't good decision making I don't know what it. Now is bad choice was to sleep in the driver's seat instead of the passenger's seat.
How do you know he made the choice rather than passed out before he could get he car in drive? I believe this is why the law is written that way. I don't know it has been mentioned that in general the US does not punish intent, but there is a law against attempted murder, which one could argue someone does when driving drunk, so I understand why there is a crime for what Hand has done.
"Attempted murder" generally involves actions that could easily severely injure or kill someone. Sitting in a car with the engine on is not likely to have the same effect, unless you put the car in gear, which there is no evidence that he did.
Anyway, fun fact, I had a friend in high school in Virginia that was charged with Attempted Vehicular Homicide for driving 104 down I-64 in his Kia. The charge was dropped to Reckless Driving (which, PSA, is the standard charge for speeding by more than 20, or for driving above 80, whichever is lower), and he was given a $1,000 fine, a 10-day suspended jail sentence, and his license was suspended for 6 months. I assume that the charge was reduced and the jail time was suspended only because he was a minor at the time.
I got away with "only" reckless once because the trooper's radar gun wouldn't measure past 125, so when it started blinking, he figured it was broken.
Not suggesting anyone should ever drive that fast. No disputing it was reckless.
I understand why it is illegal, but just from an individual morality assessment from me, I would never think that his actions were reckless enough to consider it attempted murder. I just think that there are many people in here that either didn't take the time to read what happened, or are being too harsh on someone that by all accounts was being responsible and just sleeping off his intoxication with the AC on.
In this case, I have to agree with Saban.
I assume the reason the law is written that way is so you can't get out of a DUI simply by pulling over and parking. Charging you with DUI should demand a little judgment, though. If there's no evidence or indication that you drove, you shouldn't be charged with DUI.
For me, he gets the benefit of the doubt and shouldn't be suspended from playing.