About as OT as it gets, but the more I learn the more I feel obligated to share for anyone who may be out of the loop. This is a huge deal and has been overshadowed by other current events in the news. I've linked a reddit article that does an excellent job of summarizing everything you need to know. I would highly encourage taking 10 minutes out of your day to read this, it could save you months or years of bullshit down the road.
I'll also add that reddit is an online community. I can't claim everything included in this write up (and certainly not in the comments) is 100% fact. What I will say is after reading the entire article and doing a good bit of research on my own all of the information provided looks to be legit.
I'll quote the beginning of the write up which should provide some basic insight.
"Equifax, one of the three major credit reporting agencies in the United States, was breached and over 140,000,000 people had their entire credit history stolen. Credit history includes your Social Security Number, past addresses, all previously held accounts, all inquired accounts, any bankruptcies within the last seven years, and more."
Comments
At a certain point, you are in the severe minority of your personal information is not already stolen or will be stolen in the next 2-3 years. Online security on these major companies is a joke and it really is only a matter of time before you are impacted, too.
Exactly, gross negligence with the most sensitive personal information. Truly infuriating. This may just be the tip of the iceburg. http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-41257576
If you haven't had your information stolen yet you are in the minority. In this beach alone, 140 million Americans were affected, the vast majority of whom are likely adults. There are only about 240 million American adults along the total population of about 320 million. And that's not including everyone else who has had their information stolen in any of countless other data thefts over the years.
Thanks. I've heard about the breach, and the bullshit "we'll tell you if you were affected*"
website, but no concrete "this is what you should do about it" advice.
*but you're not allowed to sue us now.
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What??? There's no way that's true. In order to be effective, you must freeze your credit with all 3 bureaus, as some creditors only check with one of them prior to awarding credit. Even if there is some verbiage stating that you agree to enter binding arbitration when you freeze your credit with them, it would likely to be ruled unenforceable by pretty much any judge.
Also, the price to freeze your credit can vary depending on the state you live in.
If a creditor uses Equifax after this fiasco then they can keep whatever good or service they are offering.
This is an incomplete list of creditors that were using Equifax. Hope you don't plan on financing a car soon (or ever) and don't have a credit card.
Affirm CC|Term Loans
Ally Financial Auto
Alterna Savings/Bank Banking
American Express|AMEX CC
AmeriCredit Canada
Amicus Financial
ATB
Bell Mobility
Black Palm Aviar Can Auto
BMO CC
BMO Auto|LoC|Mortgage
Bridgewater Bank [CAA MC]
Canadian Tire Financial CC
Capital One CC
Chase CC
Chrysler Credit Auto
CIBC CC
CIBC Auto|LoC|Mortgage
Citibank|CitiFinancial
Citizen's Bank
CMHC
Collabria Financial [Credit Union CCs, i.e. for DUCA, Kawartha, et al.]
Commonauto Auto
CUETS Financial
Dell Financial
Desjardins CC|Mortgage
DCR Finance
Easy Financial Services
Fido
Ford Credit Auto
GE Capital/Money
Genworth
GM Credit Auto
Hudson's Bay Company|HBC|The Bay CC [i.e. Capital One]
HCFI, Honda Canada Finance Auto
HFC Household Finance
HSBC
HSBC Auto|LoC|Mortgage
Home Trust CC|Mortgage
ICICI
Kia Credit Auto
Koodo Mobile
Laurentian Bank CC
Mazda Credit/Primus Auto
MBNA [owned by TD]
MDG Computers Canada
Meridian Credit Union
Mercedes-Benz Finance Auto
Mitsubishi Financing
National Bank of Canada CC
Nissan Canada Finance Auto
PC Financial Banking|CC
Peoples Trust CC
RBC CC
RBC Auto|LoC|Mortgage
RE/MAX Chay Realty
Retail Credit Solutions
Rogers Banking CC
Rogers Cable
Rogers Wireless
Sam's Club [USA]
SaskTel
Scotiabank Banking|CC
Scotiabank Auto|LoC|Mortgage
Sears Financial [i.e. Chase]
Solo
Tangerine/ING Bank CC
TD CC
TD Auto|LoC|Mortgage
Telus Mobility
Toyota Credit Auto
Vancity Loan|LoC|Mortgage
Vancity CC
Virgin Mobile
VFC Auto Finance Auto
Volkswagen Finance Auto
WalMart CC
Wells Fargo
Wind Mobile
Woodhaven Properties
But why would they keep using them? There are 2 other credit reporting agencies that haven't been hacked...yet
Many (most?) lenders pull credit information from multiple bureaus, and in many cases from all 3. It costs the lender more, but gives a more complete picture of the potential customer's creditworthiness. Even with the breach happening, I don't foresee most of these companies abandoning the bureau, unless Equifax somehow folds.
You only forfeit your right to the class action lawsuit if you sign up for their ONE year credit monitoring because your SSN, credit info, etc is only vulnerable for a year /s
Edit: Ah, I didn't realize they were offering a free credit freeze. General rule of thumb, don't accept anything free from EquiFax.Did not realize they changed the terms of service.Just one thing on cost of freezing, price is different per state. Here is a link on TransUnion that explains the price for Adding, Lifting and Removing a Freeze. I am guessing a "Lift" is just a temporary removal of the freeze.
Definitely start requesting your free annual credit report from the 3 large credit bureaus at AnnualCreditReport.com and look for any credit pulls that can be traced to opening an account that you do not recognize.
Everyone, if you don't understand what exactly happened, or what to do, please read the linked Reddit Summary in the OP. It is very helpful.
I'm not saying that your edit is completely wrong, but for starters there is no option to still pay the fee. They are waiving credit freezes across the board for 30 days, and anyone who instituted a freeze since Thursday will have their fees refunded. Also, I have done a fair amount of reading on the subject and have found nothing suggesting that taking the step of freezing your credit to protect yourself due to their gross negligence in any way waives your right to participate in a lawsuit against them.
Do you have a source for these claims? If not, please stop spreading misinformation that, if heeded, could lead others to make poor financial decisions.
Unrelated to your edit but still relevant, they have apparently removed the language from the TrustedID product (the "credit monitoring" service they are offering) Terms of Use that states that you waive your right to sue, according to the New York State Attorney General.
Hah, you beat me to it!
Looks like I've been out of the loop since Friday... CNBC initially reported that you could give up your right to legal action.
But it appears that Equifax has since clarified their language:
Sorry for confusion... removing initial post.
Shady-ass company changes their bullshit disclaimers that force customers to waive their rights for the ability to simply protect themselves once enough people complain it hits the airwaves and further impacts their stock price.
This company needs to burn to the ground
I heard something to the effect of, if you freeze your credit with one, that one notifies the other two. So, I guess that isn't correct?
Not exactly, or at least not yet, and it won't be a "freeze" in the legal sense but rather a "lock", which so far is a vague and poorly-defined term that has recently been introduced by at least TransUnion as a "free" "alternative" to a credit freeze.
From https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/12/your-money/equifax-fee-waiver.html?mc...
That must have been what I had heard about. Didn't realize the service wasn't there yet. Thanks.
According to this article the whole "You can't sue us if you sign up for this" is BS.
https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/09/so-equifax-says-y...
It's just them trying to cover their ass any way they can and it's pretty comical. Oh, you want to know if your information we were supposed to safe keep was stolen? Well if we tell you, you can't sue us. Fuck that, a judge would throw that out immediately.
This (below) is also a useful rundown, not too techy, and don't sign up for their "complimentary monitoring regardless...
https://krebsonsecurity.com/2017/09/the-equifax-breach-what-you-should-k...
I like the way they waited several months to announce it...cause what could possibly happen to your credit/identity and a couple months?
They waited just long enough for their executives to cash out their stock before going public and watching the stock price plummet.
YUP!
But of course the PR Line is "They didn't know anything about the breach when they cashed out.
BULL #$%&ING SHIT!
It's not like stock dumps of these size by people this high in the company are generally scheduled or anything.
This is the first I have heard, Thanks for the post and the solid CYA info!
Just trying to keep everyone in good financial standing so we can pack the house for the CFP
Fuck Equifax.
I know a bit about this area, here's the best summary of how to handle it-
http://www.kalzumeus.com/2017/09/09/identity-theft-credit-reports/
Highlights from this-
Freeze your credit reports. I've done this and it didn't cost anything.
Look at your credit reports at least annually and fix any errors in a timely manner
These are heavily regulated industries you can use the rules to your advantage-Write letters - his suggestions for format are good. Keep these (scans are OK) forever
Side note I was able to clear up a significant pension dispute by providing 20 years of correspondence. They
caved in a week.
Did you only freeze Equifax? As far as I've seen, there is no way to freeze your credit reports with TransUnion and Experian for free without providing hard evidence that your identity has been stolen (at the very least with a police report). For the best protection, you should freeze all 3 reports (and some people are recommending freezing a 4th bureau, Innovis), as certain new accounts can still be opened without needing an Equifax report.
Some states do allow you to freeze the credit bureaus for free, like Colorado. Check this link here
Also, I have even seen people recommending to freeze ChexSystems as well. I don't know much about that though.
Huh, my state is also free! How about that.
Thanks for the link!
What defines a protected consumer?
I've got Capital One for my credit cards and they usually give me a monthly update to my credit score. I think this is also a good way to check your credit score?
Eh. It won't specifically tell you if someone decided to do a credit check using your information necessarily. Also, you can't see your full credit report with the credit score which means it wont help too much.
If you "freeze" your credit through the credit bureaus, no one can check your credit (ie open an account in your name) until it is "unfrozen" with a long pin that they give you once. You are going to want a credit/ID monitoring service or just do the full on freeze for pennies compared to what could happen to you if someone steals your identity. Discover Card and a few other companies do offer free monitoring services just FYI. Even check your current employer to see if they offer it.
The credit score is only a number, and it doesn't give you any indication if someone has recently stolen your identity. The only way to check for signs of identity theft is by obtaining a full credit report from each of the three (or four) major credit bureaus.
What you have is essentially paying a security guard to watch a camera and let you know if the diamond has been stolen. With this data breach, the diamond is essentially in the middle of Times Square and the security guard is in India.
Freezing your credit puts that diamond in a maximum security safe under your house, and you're the only person who knows how to access it.
I was implying that if anyone access my credit or shits on it, Capital One notifies me pretty quickly or at least on a monthly basis so I can react and challenge if necessary.
You don't even want to allow yourself to get to that point. Even if you're able to catch it, the best case scenario is that you'll be able to close all those accounts that were opened fraudulently and you won't be on the hook for any debts. Unfortunately, at that point, every single closure will account against your credit history, and essentially you'll see your credit score permanently impacted, which will severely impact your ability to borrow in the future.
And that's the best case if your monitors start alerting.
You're much better off freezing everything and not even taking that chance. Its a compete PITA, but the gov't isn't going to do shit about these leaks, and its only going to continue to get worse before it gets better. You essentially want to force the issue on you giving personal signoff to any credit checks that get performed on behalf of yourself going forward. This is one lottery you do not want to win.
Interesting. Thanks for the clarification.
If you filed taxes last year in Florida, Georgia or DC, you can apply for an Identity Protection Pin through the IRS. They are testing the waters to see if the demand is high enough. It is a 6-digit pin that is required to file taxes to help prevent unsavory people from filing taxes in your name. This is highly recommended to do as well.
Good god. How incompetent is this company???
ETA: Forgot the link to the article
Love the Space Balls!
Thank you for posting this and letting me, and us, learn about it. After watching the 60 Minutes episode on credit years ago, the entire credit industry is a total sham in my opinion.
Link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdMR2wYNmt4
Yeah, I just had this argument with members of my mom's family a few weeks ago. One of her friends traded in because mine's getting up there in years (14.5 to be exact) and I won't do it because I didn't have the cash to pay for it. They were using all kinds of excuses from the need for credit to do X, Y and Z and the fact that my credit score is 0 and I intend on keeping it there.
I'm curious to hear more of your justification. I have good credit because the only debt I've ever held was student loans and I paid those off fairly quickly after graduation. Then I have a credit card that gives me cash back and I pay off the statement balance every month so that's like getting a discount on everything I buy and I make sure I don't buy anything I couldn't buy with cash. Recently, I bought a house so now I have a mortgage and that's new (being under a debt that I can't see paying off in less than a decade), but I don't think that's a horrible thing.
Just to be clear, credit history and debt are only in conflict when capacity, ability, or willingness to repay comes into play. Debt is a tool that can enhance returns, if that weren't the case then private equity wouldn't be as prevalent (or wealthy). Credit history is a means to convincing a lender that capacity, ability, or willingness are not concerns for your situation. There are ample ways to build your credit score and stay well within the means of your budget, providing flexibility in the future where the return on investment (either financially or emotionally) exceeds the interest or implied interest.
Annualcreditreport.com is down, guess I'm mailing in my request form... smdh
In regards to freezing my credit, should I wait until i receive the report to review it before taking that step or just freeze it now?
Wait. You can't request a credit report if it is frozen.Wrong. Second question in the FAQ states:
You can retrieve your credit report online from the 3 bureaus directly, so you don't have to mail anything. Also, you can still retrieve your own report even if your report is frozen, so that alone is not a reason to wait to freeze it.
TransUnion and Experian are down and have advised me to mail in a request because of all the demand.
Earlier this morning (like 7am) I was able to access my credit report from Experian via AnnualCreditReport.com. Maybe try it early morning or late evening when most of the work hour traffic dies down? Worth a shot.
I didn't try TransUnion. Equifax immediately gave me an error screen.
I am surprised that all haven't crashed due to demand!
I am assuming that my stuff has been stolen even though I have no proof yet.
Part of my business is network security. I WANT to find out what products and services that Equifax was using to secure their network. If its Kaspersky I will laugh my ass off!
Good Read
The article is saying that we are on our own. Which we are. That is ok because I don't want any help from the gov!
Are we finally at the point where we can declare credit monitoring illegal? Sure, it was probably included in the fine print when we all opened our first checking accounts, but seriously, did anyone ask one of these 3 companies to spy on them 24/7/365? I personally think it's an outrageous invasion of privacy and gross overreach of misguided authority.
I need to preface my remarks by admitting that I'm a person who, just this afternoon, submitted a paper for publication, for a new algorithm to predict credit worthiness. For the paper, I literally used an old Equifax business credit file, of 11 million US accounts, to develop and test my algorithm (my algorithm performs at a level of machine learning, so 10% above traditional methods, while still being able to pass regulatory requirements that prevent machine learning from being used).
I have to completely agree with this question. Yes, when we apply for credit we give permission to have our data reported to credit bureaus, but that doesn't make it right. Given this break down, in security, I have to wonder if someone with deep pockets couldn't issue credit without using the reporting bureaus. Start with small loans, then based on repayment history on those loans increase credit lines, offer new loans (cars, homes, etc) strictly based on what happens within the loan performance for loans with the company. It would be a major selling point to disconnect from the credit bureaus. I'm just not sure if we've reached a point that enough people would do it.
Link to paper? I just started in machine learning.
No link right now, since it was just submitted for review. PM me an email address and I'll send a copy, if you want.
I have been under the assumption that my data has and continues to be stolen all the time.
It isn't a matter of protecting your information anymore, it's a matter of monitoring your important vectors.