I am struggling with this. I am a play the percentages guy. The calls against Miami were head scratchers, but you can argue that given what Miami did, they had a chance to be effective. Against GT, you have two consecutive plays where the wide receivers have one on one matchups and GT's defensive backs made plays.
Yet, when you take an honest look at the personnel, I am souring quickly. The wide receiver group has not demonstrated the ability to win those one on one battles on go and fade routes all season. While the don't jump ball particularly well, they do adjust to the ball well. Yet, we don't see back shoulder throws.
The inverted veer and quarterback power off jet sweep motion are your favorite short yardage plays. On the last offensive touchdown drive, Bush looked tremendous on that series. This isn't a knock on Jackson. But, Georgia Tech DID NOT ACCOUNT FOR HIM THE ENTIRE GAME on read options. Zero. That extra defender was consistently the defender making the play on the tailback. When you add that the most consistent run play for the offense is either a quick hitter inside zone with the HBack whamming across OR the jet sweep to Savoy, a true inverted veer with Savoy on the jet sweep seems like the money play call.
And, if you want to go for the kill shot, run that look and then release Keene vertically. Jump pass it. They have not triggered that look since ACC play started.
Everything is mismatched right now. Jackson wants to sit in the pocket and let passes develop. The entire passing game is built on getting the ball out quickly, and the offensive tackles currently being deployed can't handle the speed rush. The running game needs the QB to be a runner and make good reads, but the QB is a pocket guy who is limited in the running game to tie up the extra defender. The wide receivers are small and quick, and yet the quick screens that helped the running game have vanished. And, you can't run slants all the time, so try an out, curl, or back-shoulder throw instead of automatically checking to a fade every time there is some semblance of press coverage.
Hand me the Pepto. This is as frustrated as I have been since Deon Clarke gave up three touchdowns because he lined up wrong versus UNC two seasons ago. And, it doesn't matter a lick that I am frustrated. What worries me is that the body language on offense looked like they are losing a little bit of faith. This offense CAN'T WORK without buy in and everyone selling out to make every threat credible.
Comments
Most of the offense and defense looked beat in the second quarter.
This right here. This offense can't get going with Jackson. His style just isn't made for a guy like him to have success. We need quick reads and quick decisions, and that just isn't him. It was very telling how quickly we moved the ball when Bush came in during the 3rd only to see it stagnate when Jackson came back in.
So, if someone more knowledgeable than I can chime in, was Josh the quintessential Lefty QB recruit? Seeing as he was a Lefty WB recruit.
*QB recruit. If he was a WB recruit, wow, what a twist!
He did compete with Bush and Hooker to win the top spot with Fuente as coach, so maybe he would have been a good fit for Loeffler. But Fuente evidently thought he fit his system well enough, too.
Jackson's issue, to me, seems to be that he is a coach's son. Some children of coaches are cerebral players who are quick and smart even with less physical talent (look no further than Cody Grimm) However coaches children are liable to over think, over analyze, and thus reduce game-speed decisions.
The second issue, and most important to Jackson is our O-line is at best: average, and at worst: inconsistent crap. French stated in his Miami review that the play calls really were good but offensive execution was poor. When we play top defenses (Clemson, Miami, GT) we have trouble keeping Jackson on his two feet. When Jackson has time, he makes decent decisions. My one knock on him, when he has time to throw, is he airs on safe passes when we have had some blindingly open receivers down field that he misses. Against GT J.Jackson looked scared towards the end there. I think it could be as good a time as any to give Bush a shot and let Jackson get his head right.
I think the coaches have lost faith in the o line and have begun calling around that weak link. Problem is that relies on JJ making plays and the receivers winning 1on1 battles. Misdirection is not working anymore because neither the RBs or the QB run are working. Run AJ Bush option for the rest of the season.
The D did enough...our offense just isn't working...Bush really sparked this team (I don't think he is starter material but he really played with fire today)..I hope they figure this out soon or we're are going to have a very painful finish this year....
with this offense all we need is a guy who can run the ball and get the ball out quickly to the WRs for screens or slants
Ehhh... The DL and LBs did enough. The back end did not play well.
We have missed DD terribly. I had really hoped that our backups were gonna be ready.
^^This^^
The first long TD was just a poor play by Edmunds. The second one looked like Mook (or maybe it was Stroman, I can't remember) was communicating about passing the WR to another defender (possibly deeper or in another zone)... That other defender was Edmunds.
Edmunds got picked on a bunch today.
How does "DBU" get smoked on TWO identical post patterns?
Because the front 7 couldn't handle the run game so they needed assistance from the secondary.
Three. They overthrew on the first play of the game.
Always remember, if Phillips is open like the GT guy was (exact same concept, except Phillips was and X instead of in the slot), we are talking about Cornelsen being a genius. He dialed up some brilliant stuff is similar spots last year. But (and it is a huge but), given personnel on both sides and the way the game flowed, I just don't think that gives you the best chance to win.
Nobody is angry if that's the play call on 1st and 10 or 2nd and 7. But 4th and 1? Just pick up the first and then you have 3 or 4 opportunities to try and win a 50-50 ball. But on 4th, you're putting the whole game on a low percentage play with no time to make up for it if it doesn't work.
As I mentioned to my dad, call that play on third down and if you don't get it, run on 4th. I personally prefer to try to run it twice, but at least the second pass was a play that had a chance. The third down fade hasn't been a throw Jackson has shown he can consistently make. Might as well have just spiked it on that play
This is basically what pushed out Beamer and yet it's all we want now.
Actually what pushed out beamer was that would run up the gut on 4-1 and not get it.
This is just me, but I don't hate Fuente for taking risks here and there because I do think Beamer was conservative to a fault. But he has to have better situational awareness.
In my opinion it's not as simple as "The coach needs to always go for it" or "The coach needs to always just take the easy points". With that said, this was a game where, from the beginning, it was clear we weren't set up to win those risky conversions. When it didn't work, we just doubled down on a losing strategy.
Cam hasn't really had a game to give me confidence in his jump ball ability since the start of the season. So it really isn't shocking that he didn't win that battle. Corn needed to get that first down. It's like the age old genie answer. What do you wish for when a genie comes out of a lamp? You wish for more wishes!!! That's what that 3rd and 4th down should have been. Sometimes coaches need to win a game when the kids aren't executing.
Agreed. But the long ball on fourth and one with a minute left? A risky play. If you don't convert, the game is over. And the game was over. That I just don't understand.
You sure about that? Several times this game (and in recent weeks), the pocket developed and instead of surveying for open receivers (that it looked like he had), he'd pull down after his 1st read, run, and get tackled for a 1 yard gain. I'd go the opposite. He's not willing to sit back and wait. But to be fair, he's a freshman. All freshmen do this. And I'm sure it doesn't help now that they're putting Bush in. His mindset is "I gotta go or I'm getting benched". The coaches either need to get to him in game and show him he can have time if he moves in the pocket or just bench him outright. Juggling 2 guys does no one any favors
Hes making freshman mistakes because the coaching staff is putting him in position to do so. They never let Evans get in the position to make those mistakes, so I remain flummoxed.
Evans was never in that position because he could just take off and run and usually pick up a good chunk of yards. Two completely different QBs
Think good thoughts for Walker and Settle. They got beat to death today and still delivered. Some of the trap blocks were complete KOs.
I thought the refs missed a bunch of calls. Did you see a lot of illegal blocks or holds on our line?
I saw a ton of holds. Generally GT ks just dirty. They dive at legs well beyond the LOS. Couple of times they were trying to get cheap shots at player near the pile (after the whistle).
I actually still don't think this is on JJ at ALL. I think the coaches have him trying to stay safe, and are committed to doing stuff we haven't executed all season. The 3rd & 1 at the end, JJ up the middle on anything gets the first, he's big enough and strong enough to get 3 every time.
I agree with you on body language, and I think these smart players see the same stuff we do. This coaching staff either f@#$ing up, or just not giving a f@#$.
It isn't on JJ. Just a situation where, with this group, he is a square peg in a round hole.
I hate saying this, but Loeffler recruited him. Imagine him in that play action oriented offense with the two big running backs at BC.
With every snap, I feel like the Hendon Hooker upside I saw in the spring, coupled with a year of growth (if he is developing), makes me think he could end up with the job. I may be way off. But, with this personnel, Hooker is the mix of Bush and Jackson that the O needs.
This!
With an offensive run game predicated on having a viable threat at the QB position, Jackson's wheels don't scare anyone. That will help open up the passing game as well.
I'm curious as to what we have in the cupboard moving forward on the OL. Aren't we basically rebuilding across the board here next season? I haven't had confidence in that unit for nearly a decade now...
That's funny about the OL. One of my good buddies has been saying that for at least a decade before a decade before now. I seems to be a constant problem and cause of concern.
OL is a problem pretty much everywhere unless you are Bama that can just stack up blue chip guys and have them waiting in the wings. This goes all the way up to the NFL ranks. There just isn't a glut of lineman talent right now...college or pro.
Just look what happened to Dallas with the loss of the tackle.
Jackson's wheels don't scare anyone
You're telling me, man.
French, I feel like you're saying this type of offense can't succeed without a QB with wheels. And if that's the case, I feel like we have bigger problems, such as personnel problems. Hooker is certainly an option next year, but I'm starting to feel like AJ is the only option to ride out for the rest of the season. I just don't think JJ is a Fuente guy anymore, if Fuente needs the threat of a running QB.
This offense succeeded in Memphis with Paxton Lynch, who was not a run threat. I think the problem is until we get the supporting cast in place, we need more Jerrod Evans than Paxton Lynch.
Memphis wasn't playing ACC caliber defenses with Paxton Lynch
This.
Also, I'd argue that 2015 Paxton Lynch was easily more mobile than 2017 JJ
Leg. Lynch was no slouch. I recall him keeping the ball on read-option regularly against Ole Miss.
This!
I agree, Paxton wasn't no JJ, but he had long strides, and could certainly hold his own. You could argue that Andy Dalton wasn't no Michael Vick either, but even he would run at TCU. The more I'm thinking about, the more I'm realizing that the threat of a running QB is a baseline for this offense. Granted I know the threat of a running QB would benefit any offense, but I'm talking strictly this scheme. Saying that Paxton Lynch wasn't a Randall Cunningham is a easy excuse in my opinion (not throwing shade).
It isn't Jackson's straight line speed. He is just as fast if not faster than the aforementioned guys. But, he has to gather himself to get going and that split second gives the defense time to recover.
Agreed, The difference in 'twitch' between him and Bush is significant. Defense can recover from not accounting for JJ whereas Bush would be streaking down field
The problem is that it isn't a split second, it's more like a full second. It's enough time for everyone on the line to know it's happening and adjust for it.
Before or after JJ was in a boot for a week leading up to this game?
And this could be a factor too...
He has looked "fast" exactly once all season: the long run late at FedEx. He was slow long before the boot. This conversation started (in hushed tones - we were winning!) in September.
There is no "suddenness" to JJ. Downhill speed, sure. But the twitch factor pales in comparison to AJ or HH (or the incoming QPII).
But we might be playing ACC caliber defenses with AAC caliber talent at skill positions right now.
Personnel, not scheme.
It can't without an elite tailback and a much more athletic OL that can sustain a hat on hat at the second level. The QB run game mitigates it.
Honest question, would you prefer Bush starting at this point? Based on the OL play as of recent I think it would give us more options on offense.
Systemically perhaps, but he has to know when to throw the ball away. He started the season doing it and it was one of the reasons why the coaches chose him to start. He just holds the ball too long now. There are times when he just makes bad plays. Even as a square peg, he isn't doing a great job of rounding his edges.
Disagree. He misses receivers consistently.
It would be one thing if we had a slow QB who can pick apart defenses with pinpoint accuracy and we just didn't run an offense that gives him room to stand and gun. Right now, we have that - minus the 'pinpoint accuracy' part.
You guys are out of your mind. Where where you when we were scoring 50- 60 on people earlier and beating WVa? This team is a work in progress, Fuente has said so himself all year. Yes there were some head scratching calls no doubt, still don't know why they went for 2 so early and yes the last series was puzzling. 9-3 would be a huge accomplishment with this group if we can get there. These coaches know exactly what they are doing just need to keep accumulating talent, which they are.
My problem is that while we are a "work in progress," we seem to be Regressing as the season goes along.
Yes, we beat WVu (an 8-4 team at best) and dropped a ton of points on UNC and ECU (so has everyone else).
We had 2 "big" games this year and we have looked absolutely offensively inept in both of them. I think everyone expected a more focused and successful effort today and what we got was more ineptitude combined with decision making that was at times, indefensible.
Regressing is what teams with no depth do...and that is us. The drop-off in recruiting at the end of Frank's tenure is coming home to roost. Roster-wise, this was projected to be the drop off year, and that has proven true. 7-3 right now is pretty much on track. Actually, it is pretty good.
With Nijman out, JJ getting rattled has shown in his decision making and his accuracy, his best assets as a QB. And as much as the offense has had some headscratching moments, there is no excuse for the assignment busts on D. The guys getting torched think they are NFL bound. That sh** doesn't get a pass in the NFL.
Finally, Miami is actually really good. Losing that game on the road was no shame. The shame is the hangover loss we witnessed in Atlanta.
Fantastic, well reasoned post. But I want to add that this was a little more than just a "hangover loss."
It took the team nearly 24 hours to get home from Coral Gables, including sleeping on the plane in Raleigh, hanging out all day at the Tri-Cities regional airport, and finishing up the trip with a bus ride up I-81 that took as long as the flight home originally should have. That's a day without PT, a day without film breakdown, a day for all the physical and emotional effects of the Miami game to just sit and fester.
So they're a day behind the moment they get back on campus. Going into the game against the one opponent you want all the time you can get to prepare for.
Top that off with our QB1, who is already a mediocre run threat at best, being in a boot on campus at least as late in the week as Tuesday, via eyewitness reports.
Everything in the world was pointing to a loss I'm Atlanta. I even said as much. And no, that doesn't feel soooooo good. But it does prevent me from going apoplectic about the loss. I expected this. I hoped I was wrong, but at the end of the day I witnessed the expected outcome.
And the weird thing is, it wasn't just me. There was tons of apprehension going into this game. Halfwits and Wagers read like Dostoyevsky this week. Lots of comments feeling less than certain about our chances. Yet when we actually lose, the selective amnesia kicks in.
I don't understand how we go from "In Fuente we trust" to "this G5 coach is out of his league" in two weeks.
Miami is good (maybe borderline great defensively), but UNC...yes, the same UNC that looked like utter garbage the week before against us put up a much better offensive performance...with a 3rd string QB no less.
They had almost 150 more yards and if not for a late fumble, they would have probably won that game.
There is no way that you can convince me that UNC has more talent, depth, or better Offensive players than we do. Regression should not be expected....or accepted.
the transitive property does not hold true in college football
that said we have no replacement for Nijman. when the opposing right DE has a minimally impeded run at the QB, a passing O goes to shit.
here is the link to the roster http://www.hokiesports.com/football/players/
sort (click on) by "Class" and then starting with the most experienced players (the bottom of the column), start working back up. Count the number of players that you are comfortable can hold their own, right now, against top 40 teams; then against top 20 teams; how many all conference players do you see; how many of them play offense?
but why would you expect this? I cant speak for everyone. but lets look at some of the factors going into this game....
1. just lost a big game on the road
2. travel day gets all jacked up and get a short week (I remember some short weeks after big losses not going so well in the past for us and that was against an FCS team)
3. out of the ACC championship hunt
4. GT on the road
5. GT and the chop block
6. GT and the option (any other team and I think we don't lose this game but the fact that we had no time to prepare for them defensively and I still think but had a great game plan. he cant line up and play safety. he had kids in position on those deep balls they just were flat footed and looking in the backfield while the WR ran past)
I had a very bad feeling going into this game that we were going to lose. weve looked offensively inept all season if you've watched us outside of the ECU game. the rest of the season the offense has struggled to do 3 major things you need to do to beat GT. sustain drives. score TDs not FGs. take the top of the defense.
I think im in the minority here but I like the play call on 4th and 1. weve all wanted aggressive, there it was. boom going for the win. that was our 3rd forth down on that drive. what makes anyone believe that picking up a first down in that situation would have changed the outcome? GT loaded the box we got 1 on 1 with supposedly our best receiver against a fresh DB I would expect and be confident that my stud WR would win that battle. he did not. Cam didn't have a good game. he had 3 or 4 that im sure he wants back. sometimes it just doesn't go your way.
if you go back and watch the film. and im not putting this L on JJ at all. but the play prior to the 4th down JJ had cam WIDE OPEN ON deep slant route and maybe 1 or 2 plays before that he missed him wide open over the middle of the field on the same route.
the bigger issue I had in the play calling was the speed option on the 4th down in the first half. that is NOT a play I have seen us execute yet at a critical time and we have called in now 2 weeks in a row with NO success and both times doomed before it even had a chance. atleast if your going to run it run it to the wide side of the field. but I would prefer not to see that on a 4th down EVER again. 4th and 2 and AJs in the game. you run the zone read or QB power of the jet fake I don't think you are stopping that man from getting 2 yards.
Please note- I repeatedly stated that the QB runs vs WVU were a byproduct of WVU overrunning the sweep with a single high safety and that it would not be sustainable. I️ repeated it through the Clemson game.
It isn't a knock on Jackson. It would be like criticizing Shegog if Shegog was asked to play defensive end. The offense can work with Jackson if he had different personnel around him. Without Phillips being effective (and I️ have some major questions about how he is being used), Jackson is working Kumah and Savoy on slants and that is about it.
Maybe not, but if the horrible throw that was tipped by 2 defenders and then caught by Kumah had been picked off, our feelings about JJ may be different
MORE LEGS!!!!!!!! Our misery is not really that important.
At this point, with the offense so dysfunctional, I think we should just ride with Bush and focus on a run heavy read option attack with play action passing built off of it. Jackson has shown flashes of being really good, but has also given us some absolute head scratchers. And to be fair, the offensive staff is doing him no favors. He is just completely rattled at this point.
I would also not mind at all if Fuente took over playcalling. If he's truly the guru he's billed up to being, we absolutely need that right now. Cornelsen has completely fallen apart.
Edit - wow with the downvote. Seeing a lot of really stupid downvotes on here lately.
Kumah's big conversion was one of the worst decisions I've seen out of a quarterback in a long time. That's picked off probably 95% of the time, with half of those going for a pick six. As the ball goes up I said 'this is ill advised'. worked out. almost turned the game around, but holy fuck what a bad choice.
When Bush came in right after that play for the next several plays, I actually thought Jackson had been pulled because of that awful throw. It was hard for me to even be happy he got the first down it was so bad.
Had the same thought when Bush was in. Told Mrs. Lwyr: they had to pull jackson for a couple plays so fuente could yell at him.
From now on, every time a ball is tipped or bobbled by a WR and I think "he threw it perfectly, and it goes down as a pick in the stat sheet", I'll immediately go "yeah, buuut" and think of this throw.
One of the 5 worst throws of the year for JJ and it converted a third down and led to a touchdown. Go figure.
Friend of mine texted me when Bush came in and ESPN showed Jackson on the sidelines. We both thought the same thing. I think everyone was thinking the same thing, and I think it's probably because it was true! His hail mary that Kumah ended up with was a horrendous decision. I think he counted it as a turnover.
I know Leal isn't around anymore so maybe I'll have to call for Fuente to Put Bush In!
Kind of like Austins d cision and pick six that put us ahead?
Leg to your point though, jis sayin'
Fuente has a killer Mike London impression. No idea why he didn't take the chip shot field goal in the first half. Going for 2 was a head scratcher too. You always take the points in the first half, especially on the road.
Yeah... I hate to say it but this game felt oddly UVAish. That is, a totally winnable game that we pissed away with head scratching plays.
Fuente said after the game he was concerned about how many offensive chances they would get. He was concerned about GA Tech soaking the clock. So the decisions made, which are very questionable. My view is he over thought this and failed to do the right thing.
He said the same thing last year!! How many years is it going to take. I'm not calling for anything hear but I️ thought about that when he went for two the first time and didn't go for the FG. As bad as it seemed I️ was still surprised we were in that game that late. It didn't feel like it but there we were.
Game was totally winnable.
Totally agree he over thought it and pressed. I hope he learns that limited offensive possessions make it critical to take all the easy points you can. I know he is big into analytics and sabermetrics for 4th downs but he needs to understand when quantifying risk, there is a big difference between probability and outcome.
He is freaked out by GT..was last year too... and he won't beat Paul Johnson until he gets over this mentally- or gets an Oklahoma type 50 points per game offense.
Even Oklahoma struggles at times to get up to 40 and lost to Iowa State.
Is Steve Sarkisian calling our offensive plays now? What a fucking joke. Two opportunities to get an easy first down on the ground to extend the drive and we fucking throw two low-as-fuck percentage passes....makes zero goddamn sense whatsoever. Whit better be ripping off heads and shitting down necks after this debacle
On 3rd and 1, in four down territory, you run the ball. You just do.
i'm so misareble....this coaching staff has proven that they cannot win big games and they are going to have let down games every year.
Can we please analyze the shortcomings of this year's offense without drawing sweeping generalized conclusions about the ceiling of this coaching staff?
There's no room for nuance here. We're either heading to the playoff or need to fire somebody.
/s
FIFY
oh please..Come on man, what are you watching? This happened against Syracuse and GT last year and here we go again. Fine, be ok with Mediocrity
Heck I want an apology from the coaches....we deserve one at this point. This game is on them!!!!
Somebody probably ought to get out and rake leaves for old people next Saturday...
I didn't downvote (jeeezus with the downvoting!!!), but you gotta tap the brakes a bit.
In '14 and '15 we spent November pacing and biting our nails hoping to get bowl-eligible. The new staff came in and delivered a Coastal title and 10 wins.
I'm not saying I'll be content with 10 wins a season and a drawer full of Belk Bowl rings. But can we at least wait and see what we do once Fuente starts cooking with his own groceries?
I hope man, i just dont want could have been, should have been or whatever, we had a golden chance to win but came away with a loss...very frustrated
Oh, so he needs his players to run it on 3 and 1? What about 4 and 1?
Fucking this
The "you're ok with mediocrity" mindset that crops up after every loss is annoying. Being angry isn't some badge of honor
People complain about downvotes, but the signal to noise ratio after a loss is unbearable.
Are you talking about this staff or the previous one???
He hasn't even had two full years at the program. Jeez.
French, you don't see back-shoulder throws and high-point throws to Keene on a seam route because Jackson isn't able to make those throws consistently.
JJ's lack of mobility (which has only gotten worse over the course of the year) is a huge problem in this offense, but he also misses open receivers regularly. Even balls that are caught are put in poor position for the receiver to gain yardage. Both end zone throws - those utterly mind-boggling end zone throws - were, IIRC, either underthrown or late. If I had a dollar for every time I've texted "underthrown" or "bad miss" or "ball is late" to fellow Hokies this season, I could buy Carol Lee for all of TKP.
I take some solace in the notion that the future is bright QB-wise. But I'm much, much less worried about that room being too crowded. I don't like saying this: JJ is the least athletically gifted scholly QB on our roster, and still will be next season. I don't see how either Bush, Hooker or (less likely, but who knows) QPII doesn't unseat JJ moving forward.
I don't see how we successfully run this offense otherwise.
JJ is OK. Nothing better. I think a lot of people are still overrating him based on how awful most of Michael Brewer and the last two years of Logan Thomas were from the QB position. The notion that he was comparable, let alone better than Jerod Evans is an absolute joke at this point. Not turning the ball over is okay but it doesn't mean anything if the offense stagnates and doesn't move because you're too afraid to take a risk downfield.
He's not bad, we've certainly seen worse at QB in recent years, but Hooker and QP seem talented enough that I don't think JJ would come out on top of a truly fair competition between the three, let alone giving Bush a fair shot as well. Only way he should be the starter again next year is if we're just handing it to him because he already had it.
Brewer and LT3 could hold their own, they just couldn't do it all without a run game
You realize we lost to Cuse and GT for very similar reasons last year, right?
Talk about being a percentages guy...
Why not kick a FG early? We are terrible in the Red Zone.
Why go for two early and chase points? We are terrible in the Red Zone.
3rd &1 and 4th &1... I agree with you on those match ups and the play calls, however Jackson has a bad habit of throwing the ball OUT OF BOUNDS on key plays. And I'm not talking about when he throws the ball away. I'm talking about that last 3rd &1 when Kumah had no chance to make that play.
I'm not sure our IQs are high enough to understand this meme.
macho doesn't think getting on here and being super-critical of JJ/CornFu/Vice etc is a good idea. You forgot the /s, macho!
Not sure I agree, but .5 leg for the joke and .5 for the R&M gif.
This is a good, humbling experience for the fanbase. We've had a tremendous change in the level of talent and depth that Fuente/Corn have to work with. This loss really shows us where we are as a team. Can't wait for the off-season honestly.
Hopefully that was a fat finger dv. Legged for you but holy crap we need to revisit the guidelines for downvotes in this community.
You don't downvote just because you disagree with someone's opinion. You either leave or present a logical....or sarcastic....response.
Wow. This is a stark & kind of bizarre but also pretty fiery take.
Mmmokay. I thought we'd had plenty of those already this year, but yeah, we've probably been a little more bullish on ourselves than we deserve.
No doubt. We're seeing it right now with our receivers and some real progress in our DL depth (Gaines & Belmar have done well, and Hewitt, Fullwood improving, which in turn saves redshirts etc). Future is bright at QB, LB, Safety. Harder to say re RB, OL, CB.
In the sense that you learn more from losses than from wins, I agree. But we were today who we've been all year. We are an aggressive defense that has benefited from a meh schedule and Oscar Bradburn, but that also gets gashed regularly in both the running and passing game. We've scored enough points, generally, to mask that gash-ability. We feature an offensive system predicated on running the football, but can't run the football. We have relied on field position (again) and some big plays in the passing game to overpower lesser teams. In our three losses, not so much. It's who we are.
FOH. We've got three games left. Some of these kids have 3 games left ever. C'mon, man. Your nom de screen is burkeytheturkey - gotta keep cheering on our guys...
honestly, the defense is about the same as many of Bud's previous defenses. We habe had the same issues now that we have had in the past.
Bud's style of D is like that 401k plan set to 2080 retirement. High risk with the hope for high reward.
I still think Fat Tyrod can be a great QB. Just needs some time.
I think he might be a speedy glennon.
All Hokie Qbs are Tyrod to me. LT was Tall Tyrod, Brewer was White Tyrod, Evans was Slow Tyrod, and now JJ is Fat Tyrod
does that make mv5 felonious tyrod?
Mv5 is prenatal Tyrod
I think as the season has gone along, it has become relatively obvious to me (as well as the opposing team's D-Coords) that Cornelson does not know how to make this offense work without a running QB.
Jackson is exactly a square peg in a round hole; I feel bad for the kid, but you can't teach speed and agility.
The more frustrating thing to me is that Cornelson has shown NO ABILITY TO ADJUST. He continues to try to pound the PEG into the hole despite the fact that it CLEARLY doesn't fit. His playcalling has been awful all season and he has been clearly overmatched by better Defenses (and I don't consider GT to be a "better" Defense).
Both Cornelson and VIce need to have a very thorough examination of their roles; both still have ALOT to prove if you ask me.
Say what you will about the playcalling today, but if you think Cornelsen never adjusts you didn't watch half of our games last year.
Sure...last year. Name one game THIS YEAR where we have made substantial offensive adjustments at half..
Watch today's game in replay. On damn near every play, the GT D looked like they knew exactly what was coming.
To be fair, we have different players this year, with different capabilities.
We keep being critical of Vice. Probably with some justification. But Zohn Burden has not shown me anything as RB coach. You can't blame the OL 100% if the RB is running straight into a tackle. 2017 Travon looks worse than 2015 Travon. Where's the development?
I have a hard time blaming Vice when I see holes being opened by the OL with the RBs just flat missing them. And in pass protection, sure... the line breaks down here and there, but Jackson had plenty of time throughout the game with Jackson freezing or panicking. The OL is not perfect, but I don't think they're one of the more pressing issues this year.
So here's the issue with Vice...
-He presides over the OL with the worst Rush/Att average in his conference
-The pass-blocking is average at best.
-He certainly hasn't been lighting the Recruting Trail on fire and his best recruit in this year's class is expected to flip to Clemson at any point
There is certainly an argument to be made that Burden hasn't produced much if any on-field improvement in RB, but he has been a major recruiting cog in the 757.
That kid isn't the best recruit. Harris is much better. Potential starter as a redshirt freshman/sophomore.
As to your last point:
In my opinion, Cornelson has shown that he can produce when he has what he needs and/or there are recruits coming along to give him the tools he lacks. The past couple games haven't been great, but I'm not even close to thinking he needs to go.
Vice on the other hand.... our o-line recruiting isn't much to get excited about, especially if we lose the SC kid to Clemson. Teller obviously has the talent and it seems to me that he's definitely not improved and may have even regressed.
I don't believe in calling for a coach's head after only two seasons, but I sincerely hope Fuente is sitting vice down and saying you need to find a way to make me keep you
I agree with u, we have a G5 staff which has been figures out in P5. There may be changes needed after this season. Hope Fuente is up to it.
Thanks, although to be honest this isn't really where I was going there. I think we have a great set of coaches, with the possible exception of our O-line coach. And I hope I'm wrong, because we've had WAY too much turnover there, but I haven't seen much to make me think Vice is the guy yet. I don't think that has anything to do with him being a former G-5 coach. Frankly, his lines weren't blowing it up at Memphis either.
You make me feel like Fuente can't win without a running QB. Is that wrong?
This offense requires effective running by the QB, i.e., to (at a minimum) get the yards that are there.
That said, Osterloh is a huge dropoff from Nijman. JJ's best attributes as a QB are decision making and accuracy. The increased DL pressure the last 2 weeks have cost him in both of those areas. And he isn't a good enough runner to make up for it.
We should have seen this coming a long way out.
Problem:
Result:
Dankest Timeline: Fuente uses his reputation as an offensive coach and QB guru to recruit elite players at the skill positions. Bud continues to recruit animals to help build depth on defense. In 3-4 years have a team that can compete against top-tier opponents and win ACC championships.
Darkest Timeline: ??
I can't tell if this is in agreement or just /s
It was agreement.
This just made my fucking day. Great stuff.
Exactly what I needed to get out from under this dark cloud. Thank you
Every time I see this gif of Christian Bale, I keep thinking it's Rider Strong.
I think we need to start throwing more numbers at OL. Need more grit and tenacity down there to be successful.
How much more grit and tenacity can you have when your coach is Vance Vice!?
Some would say he's all hat no cattle...his line has some of the worst rushing stats in the league this year. Improving in this area has to be a priority.
I think the coaches try adjusting IN GAME, but I don't see a lot of change in the game PLAN to account for our strengths and weaknesses on offense. The o line is garbage, especially after losing Nijman. Gotta get the ball out of JJs hands faster, or WRs have to win some matchups. Why not more screens and quick slants? As for the running game, we didn't run conventionally last year and it worked. Why keep trying this year? It looks like we will have to run JJ or AJ to get defenses to commit extra defenders to the box and free up the passing game.
We can't get the ball out quick because good D's have already keyed on our quick-slants and screens which leaves us with low-percentage fades.
It also doesn't help that we peppered Philips with throws the first 4 games and never developed a credible 2nd option.
Quite simply, defenses seem to know exactly what to expect at this point and if they aren't physically overmatched and don't fall for the pre-snap Eye-candy we're DOA.
I said it on another board ---> CJ Carol...the dude no one talks about -- we miss him...he had some clutch catches earlier in the season....
I am really disappointed in this team now. Contrary to someones comment that the defense played well I can't agree with that when they give up two touchdowns on only two completed passes by GT. Can't understand either how, when the offense is in the red zone with a third and two for a first down, they ran the play they did in the second quarter. They did the same thing near the end of the game when they needed a yard to go and threw the ball rather than trying to get a first down and extend the drive. I wouldn't be surprised if the team loses the last two games of the season.
"expectations are premeditated resentments"
Agree with French.....things don't add up and it's disappointing and disheartening. Mistakes by everyone, coaches and players. Even option reads look appear read completely wrong every time to me. I feel like a bad fan, but I should be happy to have a winning, decent team, but some of our play has been embarrassing the last two weeks.
Plan for film review:
1) how QB running impacts the overall run game
2) GT's gameplan where they did just enough to win without running hardly any triple option.
As my dad would say when I did dumb shit: "I'm not mad...I'm disappointed".
We are better than everything we've seen the last two weeks.
Are we?
The offense has clearly regressed. Could be a long end to the season and into next season as well.
Fuente has still not won a "big" game yet and we've coughed up a handful to teams we should have beaten. Today and Syracuse last year being prime examples
I"m going to give us the BOTD and call WVU a big game on a big stage. that was a nice win.
Here is my problem with the play calling today. After the game, Fuente said that he went for it on the 4th down in the 2nd quarter and went for 2 after both TD's because he didn't know how many chances they'd get to score. Well, you had them then, why not take them? A field goal from the 8 and two extra points is 5 points. We lost by 6. If we are down 1 at the end of the game, you have a chance to win with a field goal if you simply run for a first down on 3rd or 4th and 1. If he had gotten the points earlier in the game, he wouldn't have needed to go for broke on 4th and 1 (which I still don't think he needed to do anyway, but that is beside the point).
...and combine that with we've been going for fourth downs the last 3 weeks (Duke, Miami and GiT)...unsuccessfully. You'd think we'd learn by now.
This!!!!!!!! 10000%
I don't get it.
I completely agree. Kick the fucking ball through the uprights, taking points whenever you can. This is demoralizing when you don't get these easy points. They also matter at the end of the game. You have choices if you are close, you can kick a fucking field goal for the win. Too much over thinking the situation
At this point, 8-4 is probably the tops for this year's team. 7-5 would not be a surprise and the first loss to UVA. If that happens, coach better really be ready for some feedback. And the schedule next year is tougher.
Why is no one talking about he defense? The 2 passing TDs are inexcusable. The first was on 3rd and 17 when we knew a throw was coming against a team that can't throw. The 2nd looked like a blown coverage on their best WR. It doesn't matter how well you shut down the option if you just don't cover people on passing plays.
I agree those were bad blown plays. But holding GT to 28 puts them under our average offensive output. Bud usually keeps them right around this mark. Go back and look At the history. We need 30 to win most years, and we should be able to get that against almost any GT team.
But holding GT to 28 puts them under our average offensive output.
it's a team sport. everything counts
we took the lead in the 4th quarter...for a few seconds
The defense scored a large percentage of our points and was on the field the vast majority of the game. Yeah those blown plays are frustrating but do you really think the defense is our issue?
Yup, they scored 7 and gave up 28 for a net of 21, plus put the O in positive situations a couple of times. O has to get more than 21, or you're generally going to lose.
Yeah you're probably right, offense needs to create more than 21. Guess I just can't get over having no deep safety on 3rd and 17 and the impact that had on the game. Leaving everyone on an island in that situation is a real head scratcher.
Wasn't even their best WR on the 2nd one. In fact I recall the announcers (so take it with a grain of salt) that it was his first TD of the season.
We just need to pick our heads up, work hard and go 0-1 next week!
One thing that feels soooooo good is that I was disputed multiple times that we were gonna miss the hell out of Jerods running and Ford/Bucky on offense. Especially that Ford/Bucky one. I don't get why people thought we were gonna be just as good if not better in that department...
You were so right.
{I have no idea if you were right or not, but I support you!}
What happens next year when we also lose Cam?
Eh I've been really disappointed in Cam the past couple of weeks. I don't think he won a single one on one matchup today, not to mention him not diving to convert that third and two on the last drive. Definitely a talented player, but I think the overall receiver talent should be better next year
We'll probably have to cancel the program.
After the last 4 games, I'll admit it I miss Jerod Evans... if we had him you know exactly what the play call would've been on 3 and 1 and good luck stopping it. JJ isn't that guy.
So wait, let me get this straight. You've been waiting all year to rub it in everyone's face that you were right and we were going to suck?
The fact you're bragging about feeling happy over the team playing poorly tells us a lot about you.
No need to be so sensitive, if you are out here trying to evaluate everyone's personalities you are gonna have a bad time. I haven't waited any period of time, just that now it seems pretty damn apparent that we have pretty much no WRs able to go out there and get the ball. In fact, I'm upset that it came to this, I didn't want to be right in this case, but it certainly is nice to know I'm not as crazy-homer driven as some other people.
Nah you haven't been holding onto that at all....
How many "o's" would have been appropriate for you Professor X?
i think he showed restraint. your OP had nothing to do with football
Showed restraint in what? Your comment makes no sense. What had nothing to do with football?
I damn near spit out my water... 🍗🍗🍗🍗🍗
Please stop with the G5 coaching BS. Almost every P5 Head coach coached at a G5 spot prior to moving up.
I haven't read the whole thread, so sorry if it has been said...but I think we are now realizing how much we miss caleb farley. we need that deep threat to assist our run game, which we all know is not very good.
still waiting to see us get pimpleton in space, and would like to see more coleman fox, we need his quickness/shiftiness. neither of those is happening though, because the coaches know something we don't.
I think Fuente is being forced into making some decisions he doesn't want to, because he knows our personnel at the moment doesn't fit the desired scheme very well. and making adjustments would require putting a ton of inexperience on the field.
my biggest gripe is what appears to be a stubbornness in the offensive coaches not to adjust. We dont seem to be structuring the offense to JJ's skill set, which puts the team at a serious disadvantage. If you aren't going to adjust, you probably need to play Bush. I would prefer they adjust play calling to better fit a pocket passer because I think JJ will be more successful in that than bush will be in the O fit for Evans last year.
I also think because of our offensive strategy, we aren't fully utilizing the weapons we have on offense. I think Savoy is a weapon that needs to be targeted more downfield, but i also think Kumah needs to be worked more in to the game plan. I actually think he will turn out to be more of a weapon than Savoy at the end of the day. I also think we need to utilize Keene and Cunningham more down the middle of the field, similar to how rogers was used.
As mentioned by others, our RB's really struggle with identifying the hole. I'd like to see more McLease and Fox. They are quicker backs, and while Fox's exploits have come against backups, he seems to identify the holes better and hits them with speed. Is he the answer to our running game problem? Probably not, but I do think he can add something, and I for one would like to see what he can do.
And as for McMillan, more screens and routes to the flats and up the seam. He's much better in the pass game than running out of the backfield.
We're ten games in. There's enough out there to know what we're good at and what we aren't. No reason to force an offense better suited for Evans, Ford and Bucky. Adjust to what you have, that's good coaching.
I could not possibly agree more. I'm so tired of the "square peg, round hole" argument for JJ. He's obviously a good if not better P5 starter, and if the offense cannot be adjusted to fit his skills, thats not on him. That's a coaching error.
Fuente postgame GT
https://youtu.be/EzV1d7XAfvI
For those who haven't watched it yet, VT Athletics put up Fu's post game presser. Enjoy.
For all of everyone's bitching about Fuente, he keeps it real and tells it like it is personnel wise here. Really no different than what everyone has been saying and he's well aware of it.
Makes me like the guy even more. Go Hokies!
- Bush is a scout team qb. He's not better than JJ.
- Fox is a 4th string running back.
Anybody screaming for either of these two to save the season are grabbing at straws.
Hooker wouldn't be redshirting if Bush was only a scout team QB
Too late in the season to burn the shirt. At a certain point, you just don't put him in. Fuente said as much with JJ last season.
When I woke up sunday morning because my bac had finally zeroed out and I had my traditional panic attack, my biggest fear was that we're gonna burn the redshirt. dear god don't burn hooker's redshirt. bowl streak is intact, uva still sucks, my ptsd from wasting tyrod's shirt is still strong.
I would grab at straws if I know that the straws I currently hold aren't getting the job done.
Where the hell has Fox been the last couple weeks any way?
Also, the coaches have their reasoning, and unless you're a part of the program (and probably still limited to the coaching staff), you won't know their exact reasoning for things. Maybe it's blocking, maybe it's attitude, upside, etc.
The player that is best with the ball in their hands and in open space (like Fox) isn't always the best all around player, and you need someone who can be relied on for all situations.
I question some of the play calling like everyone else, but I'm going to refer personell judgement to the guys who get paid millions to do just that and watch these guys play for several hours every day, largely behind closed doors.
I've been waiting to calm down all day before posting anything. There were head scratching calls on both sides today (leaving our DBs on an island on 3rd and long, not taking points early, calling numerous fades when our receivers haven't shown an ability to come down with them all year, and of course the two passes at the end of the game). Even with all of those issues today, i still have confidence in our coaches, big picture we are still early in Fuente's time here. He's already elevated the program since the end of the Beamer years, I'm not going to be too hard on him for not winning the big games yet. If we still can't get over the hump in year 4/5 then i may start to lose confidence.
The most puzzling/frustrating thing for me is wondering where all the creativity on offense has gone. One of my favorite things about the offense last year was our creativity, especially in the red zone. Where are the passes down the middle to the h-back, the backside passes in the red zone, the Cunningham routes from last year? It seemed like last year we added a wrinkle every game, but this year feels like we are stubbornly trying to get the same dang plays to work game after game.
Last thing, please stop going for it on so many 4th downs, especially when we can get points. Whether it's execution, play calls, or bad luck, we have been terrible on 4th down. Just take the points or play field position.
This. This is one of the most level headed and thoughtful posts I've seen.
Should the coaches be fired? No. Fuente has been excellent overall and is ahead of schedule if you think about where we were in 2015. So we need to be patient and let this develop.
Having said that, some of the decisions today do kill me (and not the 4th and 2 throw which I disagree with but not as bad as some others).
- going for 2 early on was awful, especially if we think our O is limited and not likely to succeed makes even less sense
- not kicking the FG early. The 5 points we didn't take on kicks made us need a TD on the final drive, whereas if we took these points then a FG on the final drive would have won the game
- no deep safety on 3rd and 17 I'll just never understand. Could have completely changed the game if we get a stop there or force a bad decision. I love Bud, but I have no idea how to explain this one.
You also make a really good point about the creative play calls. Last year, sure, Isiah and Bucky could win some one on one matchups that we can't win now. In MOST games, not all. When we played Clemson in ACCCG, they took away isiah and Bucky for the most part. But we still scored 35 with clever play calls, pop passes, screens, etc. What happened to that creativity? Been absent since ACC play began and sorely needed.
I think the redshirt freshman is playing like redshirt freshmen do, and the coaches are losing a lot of confidence. .
Frustrating? Frustrated is when my son leaves my tools out or forgets to take the trash to the curb. This was absolutely, unequivocally an embarrassing, shit your pants, crayon eating, window licking, finger painting with what you just pulled out of your ass masterpiece. This game is the reason nobody wants to see us in big games and when they do they find a way to point out our irrelevance. And don't tell me that that's not what they do because I hear it on sports talk around Memphis and other places all the time. Calls for expanding the playoff end with "do you really want to see a 15th or 16th ranked VT in the playoff?"
Why do they say that? Because we're littered with shit shows like this in our history. I'm glad Fuente is our coach. I'm glad we're going to yet another irrelevant bowl that I'll probably attend. But damn if I don't want to see a little bit of that hard, smart, tough a little more often. Especially the smart part. We can overcome a few big plays, missed tackles. We can overcome a few poor decisions and some predictability. We can overcome the occasional slow start. But be damned if we can't overcome all of that in every game.
No offense to French's wording at all. Thats not what I'm implying. I'm saying I was frustrated last week when the competition was better. This week I'm just embarrassed. Hell TN beat this team. What's worse? LOLUVA beat this team. This wasn't frustrating for me this was having your pants yanked down and being bent over and spanked bareass on TV by some 90 pound school teacher while she makes you recite last weeks spelling words.
I won't even begin to assign blame. There's a couple hundred threads that have done that. All I'll say is take your ass into the film room and then to the practice field and fix this shit before the next two weeks give the haters anymore ammunition to pump into a dead horse.
Loss is on Fuente. I appreciate the concern on Corn but there is no way we call the last two plays that way without Fuente deciding himself.
Players seemed hung over from loss last week. Execution was bad. Very bad.
JJ needed more time off. I think he is playing hurt. Just doesn't seem like same guy. Bush provided a spark and a dynamic GT wasn't ready for. He should have been kept in for at least a full series to see what his impact could have.
The 2 passing touchdowns by GT is ludicrous. Of all team this should be preventable with GT. No excuse for those.
Zohn is not a capable RB coach and this is not a knock on him. He is an excellent recruiter and most of all a WR coach. It's time he was returned to that position. Wiggins was needed because scheme was paramount to teach at first, but Zohn surely understands scheme now. In meantime play at RB and WR have both regressed IMO.
Vice so far is underwhelming to me. If any coach were on a hotseat I would say its him but I am hesitant to call for his head if for any other reason than I would like to see our OL have a coach that lasts at minimum 4 years and not have such chaotic turnover.
It's year 2. Calling for coaches heads at year 2 is stupid. Evidence the past few weeks to the contrary but every fan SHOULD be able to see that recruiting is trending up in a big way. That's exactly what you want to see with new staff, next is translation of that upward trend into wins.
But if we want to be a big time program we need to be like big time program fans. /s
Great post by the way, leg.
Checking the film, Bud isn't without blame. While Edmunds busted on the first long TD, why in the blue hell are you in cover 2 on 3rd and 18 instead of being in cover 3?
Mooks bust had some other factors, including a clever alingment. But, 3rd and 18 and only playing 2 deep against a team that basically only runs vertical routes is head scratching.
Cover 3 would have been better... but 2 safeties shouldn't be getting toasted by GT
Everyone is reacting to this loss and the play calling/effort. it sucked. Let me share some perspective.
First, GT and the other losses this year. Clemson who is top 4 team. Miami who is a top 7 team blowing out the #3 team in the country. Yup, looks like they were superior opponents.
Now GT. Coming off the Miami loss and tough travel I knew this was going to be a tough game. But if you've watched GT all year they are WAYYYY underachievers. From a talent perspective I'd say this is one of the better GT teams I've seen top to bottom. They just find ways to lose games like idiots. 1 pt to TN & UM. Then hung with Clemson and got sloppy late to UVA probably looking to us. It's not like they're some scrub team.
Lastly. Our offense has lost confidence. People are figuring out how to make us 1 dimensional and we don't have the players to balance things out. JJ is a pocket passer but our Oline sucks and gives no time. We have a quick passing scheme that relies on receivers to get open but our receivers are 18 yo's and don't know shit. Our defense plays aggressive, but we only have 1 string so starters gas. We can kind of run block, but our RB's don't have vision to find holes. Offensive scheme that lends to running Qb's but JJ is slow and hesitates.
It's a mish mash of personnel, coaches, and scheme.
We're just a giant work in progress. Name one game changing player on our team? It's prob Settle on defense. Everyone else is average. Watch Miami, Clemson, Bama, etc. These guys have home run hitters. They have people on the field that in 1 play alter the game. We have good coaches that coach schemes, but lack the 1 hitter quitters.
We'll get there. Just have some perspective on the losses and where this team is really at.
These are all my feelings, just put into better words than I could come up with.
Also, as far as perspective, if you told me at this time last year that we would lose the best receiver in school history, one of the best quarterbacks in school history and a major playmaker TE/WR, followed by playing the entire season with four freshmen starting on the offense.. and that we would still manage to win 9 or 10 games with some heartache and offensive (and defensive) woes and miscues, I'd take it in a heartbeat.
If we make it to 10 wins again this season, Fuente will have a 20-6 record in his first two seasons. That's not bad whatsoever.
One little note:
Fuente is currently 17-7, so 20-6 isn't gonna be a thing.
Yep
Settle, Walker, Stro and Tremaine Edmunds are all game changers on defense/special teams. Offensively we don't really have anyone outside of Cam. People are low on Cam right now but I attribute that to the overall incompetency on offense as opposed to what Cam is/isn't doing.
Agree to disagree on some of the game changers, but agree defense and ST's more talented than offense.
I think Cam is a baller, but needs a deep threat to compliment him. Losing Farley hurt.
Only game changing stro did yesterday was to serve up 6 pts to gt. Guy has talent but is undisciplined and cost us 15 on a stupid pf. Throwing the shoe was cute but also stupid.
Stro? Do you mean Mook?
omg!!!!!! And I'm not stoned. Waaaay offf. My bad. Jeez. Stro was $$$$$$$$$$$. Yesterday. Yeah mook was rough. Just delete the whole wretched post.
No worries, I think everyone was a little crossed up after Saturday.
Still waiting on Tremaine to change a game besides missing a tackle on a QB in space... He has not had a great year, especially when compared to expectations. Hill before hurting his hamstring, Walker, Shegog, and Stroman. That is about it. Big Tim made some plays, but he got trapped A BUNCH because he was running upfield instead of squeezing the hole. And he paid for it. He took some serious blindside shots.
There have been a few unspoken truths about this team that have been glossed over because we've been winning. This is one. Too much overpursue, too little secure tackling. He's a great player but hasn't reached the level he played at last season.
(somewhat) OT: Think he stays or goes, French?
I think we can all be honest and say that tackling is an issue for just about everyone on the defense, with the exception of one or two guys, not just Edmunds.
That's all well and good. And I've been very vocal about how bad our tackling has been. But we're talking about Tremaine specifically on this sub
Agree on Tremaine. He's got a lot of upside but still makes a bunch of mistakes.
This defense is an overall solid defense but again there's not a Kendall, Corey, DeAngelo type, Flowers, etc type.
And when you play teams like Miami and Clemson you need those guys to compete. When you play the middle of the pack teams like GT you'll eventually need one of those types to pull it out when you play and coach like crap. Think David Wilson kickoff return to GT or Tyrod vs Nebraska.
We had an offgame against GT and don't have one game changer to pull it out for us.
Post game analysis...
Talent.
Just.
Isn't.
There (in key positions and on the bench).
Recruiting.
Needs.
To.
Improve (drastically).
Athletic Department Revenue.
Must.
Increase (drastically, to attract necessary athletic talent able to meet fan expectations).
Donor $upport.
Crucial.
This loss wasn't because of talent. Do we need to recruit better and build more talented depth? Absolutely. Is it going to take more financial support to get there? Yes. But we had the talent to win yesterday.
This loss yesterday was on the coaches. As French said, we are a square peg in a round hole offensively right now. Everything is completely out of whack, from the gameplan to the playcalling. And like him, the body language on offense worries me that players may be starting to lose confidence in the system and themselves.
Where do you see the necessary talent to win yesterday?
Neither of our offensive tackles have any business starting.
Our running back rotation is a converted quarterback with no vision or wiggle, a scat back, and a freshman that is just getting his feet wet.
We have 2 slot receivers and a possession guy starting with nobody that can get downfield. Nobody else in the receiver room can catch the ball.
JJ is what he is. He is a good freshman but he cannot put a team on his back. AJ threw more interceptions than touchdowns at a lower level last year.
We have no depth behind settle, walker, hill, and mihota. That puts more pressure on the linebackers which puts more pressure on safeties which leads to more busts in an aggressive defense.
This staff's recruits are freshmen. Can we relax until they actually see the field until we berate the entire coaching staff.
VT was the more talented team on the field yesterday, period.
They simply got out coached. And honestly, that is going to happen. But to put this loss on talent, or lack thereof is just not reality.
Just saw this post from Joe: http://www.thekeyplay.com/virginia-tech-football/2017/11/15198/honeymoon-over
Talent's a legit argument when talking about the Clemson & Miami games. You can't really use that to explain a loss to GT, though.
My 5 thoughts/takeaways:
Osterloh for Nijman is not an even trade. Rattling JJ is finally showing in his accuracy and decision making. I think it has impacted coaching decisions as well.
Assignment busts on D are as critical in close games as turnovers on O.
Recruiting at the end of Frank's tenure shows in our roster/depth. This year projected to be the nadir, hopefully it is.
I liked the 4th and 1 call...Phillips one on one for the win. But I hated the 3rd down call that preceded it. Get the ****ing first down.
Miami is pretty gosh darned good...they beat us in Miami and then the very next week they beat us in Atlanta and opened up a can of whoop-ass on ND the same day.
I think we all thought this team was going to take a step back b/c the talent wasn't there. Then we beat WVU and JJ looked better than we anticipated but against lesser teams. We'd all be happy with 8-4 going into the season. Now yesterday was the first time I think we saw the Fuente staff panic a bit. The offense isn't what they want and they don't really have fix for it this season. Chasing points early , not going for 3 in 1st half. We've been lucky that Fuente has been able to mold his stuff to his players, but I think he's gone as far as he can in that regard. We need playmakers and an OL.
well said
This is the problem IMO. Getting the sense Fuente is trying to force a system onto players without the needed skills rather than adjust the system to work with what he has. To me the ability to do the latter is what makes a good coach.
It's what Buzz does so well on the basketball side of things (although he has more "his type of guys" to begin with). He doesn't try to play big with a small roster, he plays fast and wears down a team with speed which he has in spades.
Would like to see Fuente try to do the same and utilize the skills of the team (JJs intermediate accuracy, savoys YAC, Phillips route running, Dragon catching the ball out the backfield, etc. ) rather than force them to run QB runs and fades. Not saying Fuente doesn't do these things to some degree and he is still the right man for the job, but it would be nice to se him try to force things less going forward, that's all.
you can't compare football and basketball in terms of scheming and molding scheme to players. You just can't.
Polar opposites.
Buzz went 11-22 with JJ's guys
We were fortunate last year in football, and I think fortunate this year. Both of these could have been losing seasons.
Losing Nijman was huge. Before that, we could at least pass block. In that light, AJ might be the better current choice at QB though our run blocking isn't going to instill fear in anyone.
Fuente obviously shoulders the strategic decisions but it's not like there are lots of alternatives right now.
So you mean to tell me at Virginia Tech, with 18 OL on scholarship, we have a grand total of 4 that can "pass block"? Because losing one has seem to kill the whole operation. THAT is an issue. Vice has 18 guys... he can't coach up 6 apparently.
Seriously.
If that's a problem, this is where they need to making some changes. Recruit better, train better, and/or change some personnel.
I'm saying we currently have 1 left tackle that can pass block at a reasonably high level.
I'm also saying the pass rush from Miami and GT was the primary factor in the poor offense in those games. Look at the stats....double the average sacks and the two lowest passing outputs of the season. Jackson also had a combined 23 carries for 13 yards in those 2 games.
Hokies are 1-3 in games giving up more than 1 sack with BC (5 sacks) the only win. The 3 losses were also the 3 lowest point totals of the season (10, 17, and 22) and BC (23) was next.
Yes, the OL is a big deal.
What's scary is that the only "Fuente guy" contributing on offense is Savoy. Keene a non factor (but will be good), Pimpleton is leaving, the OL that redshirted last year are not playing, etc. Where is the WR that can stretch a defense? I guess that was Farley? but who knows. Is Holston a game breaker at TB? I don't see it- I see Josh Oglesby there. Point is, this offense might not be any better next year either.
If there's any solace after the loss....
I can sit here and honestly say that we're still a few snaps/plays/calls away from being a 1 to 2 loss team... and with this young group, would be a great success.
I still think we're in a good position moving forward, given a year or two to establish a team that fits Fuente's style, we should/continue to be annual ACC contenders.