First time I've seen an article critical of CJF himself. It focuses mostly on coaching decisions and how they stem from his distrust of the offense.
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First time I've seen an article critical of CJF himself. It focuses mostly on coaching decisions and how they stem from his distrust of the offense.
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I had to re-read this quote a bunch. So, he's saying he doesn't have confidence in this offense to operate the way he wants? Is it mostly due to the fact we're very young on offense this year?
That's the way I read it, and I also think it's due to the youth on offense. Can you blame him? He might not be trying to limit the offense but maybe he's just being realistic. I mean, the guy does know offenses pretty well.
Cmo'n coach, quit focusing,harping and complaining about our players limitations. We have more talent than GT. Make adjustments with the talent we have and put these players in a position to win. Recruit better players next year!
Wrong.
We don't have more talent than GT. Not developed, not playing in the right positions, and not on the bench.
That's why we lost to GT.
Sorry, I couldn't resist.
The fact is that there is plenty of blame to go around on this loss, and Fuente left some points on the field. We all know it, and it's better if he just owns that. As coach, he needs to put his team in a position to win. There are some judgment calls, but if you go for it on 4th down early in the game instead of kicking an easy field goal, you accept responsibility for that.
'You're never as good as everyone tells you when you win, and you're never as bad as they say when you lose.' Lou Holtz
We have enough talent to pick up 1 yard in 2 tries with the game in the balance. He didn't even give the players a chance to try and get it. Just two low percentage passes and game over.
This is what gets me the most. 3rd and 1 with 3 timeouts left well within GT's territory. We had plenty of time left to get cute and try to pull out a play to win. Get the first down, keep marching the field, and keep increasing the percentage of us being able to turn any given play into a TD. Going for it all on 3rd and 1 and then 4th and 1 with those TOs in our back pocket just still feels like a panic move, and I can't get past it. Even the GT fans I know asked me why the hell they did that when they were giving up the yards on the ground they were, and I had nothing.
That kind of lack of situational awareness is going to have me bothered about this for a while. Its not that we lost to GT, its how we lost to GT.
That's only one side of the coin. I'm not saying I agree with the call, but Fuente said after the game that it was about the matchup. That situation (4th and short) is the only way we'd know for sure GT would bring pressure and play man coverage, with Cam isolated on a freshman CB. If you convert there and go back to a normal offense, you don't know what to expect (zone coverage, safety help, etc). Fuente knew this would give him the matchup he wanted, he went for it, it didn't work. It sucks but when you look at it through that lens it's not as terrible of a decision.
Personally I'm more bothered by the 2pt conversion vs XP, and going on 4th early in the game vs FG.
Not correct. - See Joe Lanza , tkp article " The Honeymoon is Over" Nov 12 , 2017 3:21. By any metric GT does not have more talented players than VT . We did not lose this game due to inferior talent, we lost because we were out coached , out schemed and out played.
I'd say our talent is roughly equivalent to that of GT.
Even if he is being candid and realistic, I'm disappointed in these comments. You're the coach making 3,000,000 this year, don't throw your players under the bus. Put your pride aside and take ownership for your own decisions.
Fuente makes less money than Bronco no?
...and your decisions were wrong. Own it.
They're only wrong when they don't work.
We all know everyone here would love the call had Cam brought that pass in, or the Bush conversion was successful, ect. It's all hindsight because they didn't work. If they work, we're praising his "going for the win" mentality.
He explained the two late calls. They saw both opportunities as their best to get it in the endzone that drive. They aren't necessarily wrong. We are horrendous in the red zone. We've stalled out tons. If you have single coverage, odds are you're getting one of two. We didn't. Had we got the first down and then stalled, some keyboard warrior would have come on here and noticed the single coverage there and question why we didn't take a shot there.
Fact is, Fuente and company are way smarter football minds are than all of us here. We can question calls all we want, but to flat out call the decisions wrong, when Fuente came out and explained in detail all the questionable decisions, is not a good move.
We can say JJ needs to make that throw to Cam better just as much as we can question the call.
We can question Bush and the center on the messed up snap on the 4th and 2 play.
We can question Mook and Edmunds on the busted coverages.
We can question, question, question.
We lost. Period. There were plenty of reasons. No one person needs to own it. Collectively as a team, as a program we need to own it. We're going to learn a whole lot about the character of this program the next two weeks. How do we respond after this one?
Best post game comment
Bullshit. Bullshit times a 1000. A wrong decision is still a wrong decision even if you get bailed out by a player making one hell of a play, which is exactly what it would have taken for Phillips to covert that TD. You just don't want to criticize the coach. Don't even start with that "the professional knows more" cop out. I'm no Michelin star chef but I know when I get served a bad meal. They fucked up. They know it. They should take blame for it. Instead, they're deflecting with "Well actually..."
^This...the offensive play calling went from bad to unacceptable tonight... I'd question either the Bush play or those passes at the end regardless...sure I want us to win but this game summed up what has been wrong all year...I expect a coach making 3 mil to own a screw up like this... these same players smoked lesser teams this season... we have some talent just seemed too timid to use it
Yeah the whole "professional is always right" is an argument people need to get away from. Having slightly more expertise doesn't give one the power to change logic and facts in their favor.
Yeah that's one of the biggest logic flaws I hear from people.
Did you think Fifty Shades was dumb? Where's your multimillion-dollar fan fiction franchise?
Did you think the Pontiac Aztek was ugly? Where's the SUV you designed?
Did you think Butch Jones was a bad college coach? When do we get to see the team you coach take the field?
...
etc. You don't necessarily have to be a professional at something to dislike a particular product from someone who is.
Yep. It's called being the consumer.
"Slightly more expertise" is an extreme understatement. And that extra expertise doesn't change the facts or logic, but it does allow them to understand the logic and facts better. This game is actually a great example, since a lot of people are very mad about going for it on 4th and short instead of kicking the field goal (and 100% confident that they are right), despite the fact that it was absolutely the right call, statistically, to go for it. It's no fun shutting down all criticism, but sometimes as fans it's good to check yourself when it comes to your own expertise.
I disagree that calls were wrong only because they did not work. When we put in Bush on the goal line, I thought before the play, "Bush is going to run it." GT knew that as well and stuffed it. I would have been happy if it had worked but It was a bad move BEFORE the ball was snapped. As to the two long passes at the end of the game, why not get the first down and then have four shots for the end zone.? How many OCs would call for two long low percentage passes in that situation? I would have been overjoyed had it worked but still, bad calls. Its like when JJ threw up that prayer that should have been intercepted but ended up being a first down for the good guys...I was glad it worked but it was a terrible decision.
Coaches saw the coverages and thought it was the best chance to get into the endzone on the drive. It's just that simple. We've struggled in the red zone when the field become condensed. We had some space to exploit it and tried to.
Maybe GT just made good plays or our guys didn't. Sunday morning analysts can't change the results.
Top 25 teams don't score two offensive touchdowns against teams that struggle to go bowling. There were a lot of questionable calls and i thought the staff would take more ownership. Hope it's part of "growing pains" that I keep hearing about when reporters question our credibility (which went front CFP relevance to I hope our recruiting doesn't take a huge hit in two "performances")
Recruiting rarely comes down to a game or even a season. Recruits talk about dorms, coaching staff, perks, campus, environment, program perception befor they talk about wins or losses.
Yes to this.
Near the top of the list is likely playing time and quality of competition....who's on the schedule.
Position coach is a big one, as well.
Recruits, in general, don't sweat individual losses.... they've been playing for years and understand getting a loss. The observed reaction to the loss by coaches/players/fans (gulp) can be impactful.
Yeaaaaaaaaaa we (mostly speaking for myself) get pretty upset at the drop of the hat. But it is 66,000 crazy fuckers like me that pack into Lane and get that place hype. So ying and yang.
Post game comments
Posted in the other thread. He's not throwing anyone under the bus. He said there is plenty of blame to go all around.
You all need to watch it and stop bitching about Fuente. The kids aren't perfect, neither is he but as stated above if we were smarter football wise I'd be on some sideline not yelling from the stands.
In general I agree. But there was something odd about the way he said and emphasized "THIS squad" when talking about offensive issues. Huge Fuente fan but even I couldn't help but feel that the phrasing threw the players on offense under the bus a little. At the same time, it's probably true.
The quote is bullshit. That line of thinking is bullshit. We're a team that isn't capable of multiple opportunities? This very team had MULTIPLE opportunities earlier this year. He, and no one else, was talking like that then. But over the last 3 weeks, the offense has had piss poor game management. The offensive play calling in down, distance, and situation is often nonsensical. That and that reason alone is why this team is struggling. Every team has deficiencies. It's up to the coaches to notice them and adjust. Cornelsen and Fuente keep trying to put 10 lbs of sugar into a 5 lb bag. Maybe instead of complaining about not having a 10 lb bag you use two 5 lbs bags?
He's got another quote where he says we don't have the team to run up and down on anybody. That's true. So why do you keep trying to run the ball? Specifically, why keep running it Jackson? He's a good QB and he doesn't have to run. This offense has plays in it that aren't all QB RPO dependent. Use the sweeps more instead of just faking them, use actual play action. Where the fuck is the pop pass to the TE (where the fuck is the TE in general) that we heard about all spring and summer? It's like they've totally forgotten about Cunningham and Keene. Use more screens to get guys in space. Stop throwing jumpballs Phillips like he's Megatron and actually use his skillset (space and route running). This playbook has this stuff. We've seen it last year. We've seen it THIS year. It's even been successful in games we've lost in the brief times we're aggressive and need a score but its abandoned as soon as its back to a 1 score game.
No, this is a coaching problem. Fuente and Cornelsen deserved to be called out and derided for this. They've had shit game plans for 3 weeks straight, didn't adjust, and lost 2 of them (might have lost to Duke if the weather didn't turn to shit making it impossible for either team to do something). This is on YOU, Coach. Your the limitation because you keep trying things you know don't work. Get out of your head about what you can't do and find out what you can do.
^Well said...huge Fu fan but disappointed in what I'm seeing trending... I think it's fair for a fan base to go wtf on bad calls..it doesn't mean any of us think we know more than the coach...Fu needed to own this and based on my watch / read did not... I just want us to finish strong and not play scared.
Thank you on the tightend comment, I was screaming at the tv there on the last 4th and 1 to throw the "Y hot" as we called it when I played. Have the end slip right through the line or Keene fake a block and hit him in stride, run for days.
Go Hokies
When you don't trust your offense, you call plays like the play they called on 4th and 2 where they brought in Bush to do God knows what.
A play that should have been called for a false start or illegal motion. That play was jacked up from the start.
It was the inverted veer on the jet sweep motion that we run all the time. There was a timing issue with the snap. I have no problem with the call honestly, the guys on the field did not execute.
Fuente gets a pass unless we lose to loluva.
Not to go too far on a tangent...
1) Streaks don't last forever. LOLUVA will beat us again at some point
2) We aren't in line to achieve any larger goals than a bowl this year
I might go as far to argue that this is as good a year as any to give LOLUVA a win. Then return to the regularly scheduled program for the next decade after that.
Nah, I'm content to have our LOLUVA win streak continue for the next 100 years.
Even in our worst years of the past decade. I could always take solace in the fact that we still manage to beat LOLUVA. I dont think any year is a good time to end that streak
What, and give them a recruiting bullet point?
I think we extend the streak one more year.
Hmm but what if next year we're 11-0 heading into the LOLUVA game? I would want that one more than I would want this one.
Let's have no more such talk. I think you win the game for the sake of winning it EVERY YEAR. Let's set an NCAA rivalry record.
It's almost like he hasn't fully adjusted to being in the ACC. He recognizes ACC talent exists on the other teams but seems to forget it exists on his team as well. Fuente strike me a system guy and I think that if he doesn't see what he wants to see in practice his not going to take any "risks" in games. I put risks in quotes because the risks he's not going to take are based on players doing things he doesn't think they can do. The risks he does take don't seem to turn out any better. Sometimes you have to let those kids make mistakes and sometimes make plays. Saying what he said is not helping with the morale of the players. I think he needs to get in there and start pumping them up a bit or we're looking at going 0-4 in November.
Or... or... or......
It's like he hasn't fully recruited and developed a complete team.
In my mind the jury is still out on whether he can do that here (at least one that can compete with Clemson, FSU, and Miami when they're rolling).
But as far as calling plays and putting together a cohesive offense, VT is lucky to have these coaches with the athletic budget we have.
Fuente's last year play calling was Memphis' best year offensively. Every year since Cornelson took over the offensive production has declined. I don't think Fuente is the root cause
probably not a coincidence that that was year four when he had his recruits in the system for multiple years....
edit: actually, year 4 at Memphis, statistically their best season, was Corns first calling plays.
I wonder Why Bud gets a Pass ? Because two pass coverages cost VT 14 points, As Always. And piss poor tackling and no MLB . I wonder Why ??
No MLB? 12 tackles and a QB hurry. Runs up the middle weren't the issue yesterday.
Beats me. We should have a thread about it.
5/7 of your comments in the past month have just been to rag on Motu. You need a new shtick, bro.
Its gotten to the point where there seems to be a personal vendetta against Motu on here by this guy, bordering on a CG violation. Whenever I see this guy post, I am just waiting on him to go after him for something, even when the reason is shaky at best.
I'm telling you guys....Drew stole his girl!
Bum Philips said when asked about Don Shula; "He can take his'n and beat yourn and he can take yourn and beat his'n."
I read this article this morning, it came up on my news feed, yet I was headed out to church, and I didn't have the time to post it. Thankfully OHokie is TKP'ing hard enough.
This article confirmed my suspicions that I've expressed in other threads. Since the Clemson game, I've had the belief that CJF has been playing within what HE believes is the "skill set of the players he has available at this point in time." And this article and his postgame comments confirmed that.
I am disappointed in CJF's comments, as true as they may be, I don't think they should play out in a public forum like a post game. We are all human though, and I know we all have faults and this was certainly a misstep that could've stemmed from frustrations.
I still default to my personal opinion, that he can do more with what he has. Sometimes coaches try to be the smartest guy in the room, and this is a reflection of that in my opinion. Sometimes the guy in the room that thinks he's the smartest, is actually the most foolish one in the room. (current scenario)
Fuente said he made decisions a, b and c based on x, y, and z. We can argue they were wrong, some I think were wrong too, and he already said he second guesses his decisions later all the time but you have to move on. We are young, inexperienced and we are lacking talent in some areas. If Fuente comes out and says we should be moving the ball all over these teams even though he knows we can't and we continue not to do so, then what reactions is he going to get? He has been brutally honest from the beginning so why start lying to us now? The players know what Fuente is saying. He isn't calling anyone out but is saying as a group, for various reasons, we are unable to perform certain things. You don't think the WRs know they can't get separation or that our RBs can't make anyone miss in space or miss holes? I promise that has been discussed plenty in the film room. I don't see that as throwing the players under the bus, it is just our current situation.
Fuente said before the season we will not be as explosive or effective on offense this year as last year. He is making some questionable calls to make up for that in situations. I see it as him playing to win rather than playing not to lose. It is year 2 and we have more talent on the way. We have 3 starters/contributors hurt on offense (4 if you include Farley) after 3 starters left early for the draft. I am not stressing because we lost 1 game to a team that has less talent than us so far this season.
I think what was missing was his ability to say, I made mistakes along with everyone else. I appreciate him being brutally honest, but he has to be brutally honest about himself. Stating that he second guesses play calls for better or for worse in my opinion isn't far enough. You agree with most others that he's made some "questionable calls," but how does saying he evaluates certain decisions after the games, a way of saying he made poor decisions during THIS game (It's a broad brush stroke response). How can he claim to have been going for the points when they were available, when he passed up at least 5 of them during this one game.
I love Fuente, and I'm not asking for his head on a pike by no means, but what I am asking for is for accountability to be enforced for all parties involved, including the coaches. And he should be prepared for this reaction when he makes questionable calls, like his Pitt presser the other day "It's a short trip from the penthouse to the outhouse." I'm glad he's expecting that, because that's how passionate we'll always be as fans, and that's the level of accountability that we'll always hold our team to as a fan-base. Embrace that and appreciate that, coach.
Would you blame Bud for only 2 completions but both going for TDS?