A Hokies' top target in the 2019 cycle, blue-chip running back Devyn Ford revealed his commitment details. After Ford canceled an official visit to Ohio State, the finalists are seemingly Virginia Tech and Penn State.
May 18th @ 4pm @ North Stafford in the auditorium I will be making my commitment, everyone is invited ❗️— Damonte' 🌊 (@TsunamiFord) May 6, 2018
F5, F5, F5, F5, F5, F5, F5, F5, F5
Ford's coach at North Stafford HS, Joe Mangano, shed some light on what Ford would weigh in his decision.
"Trust and which school he sees is the investment for 40 years not 4 years. Both schools are outstanding and have really earned his trust. He is very high on both of them."
Mangano provided more details to Land of 10.
"These are staffs he really trusts and, in particular, both head coaches connect well with him," North Stafford coach Joe Mangano told Land of 10. "In our football program, we always say the most important word is 'trust', and if you don't have that then nothing matters. Going through this process, I don't think he's looking for the best facilities or the best offense. He's looking for which program is going to look out for Devyn Ford for the next 40 years, not just the next few."
Ohio State was the third contender here and hosted Ford in early April, but there was a parting of ways when the Buckeyes added a second 2019 running back commit. Ford used official visits at Penn State and Virginia Tech during consecutive weekends in April and, according to Mangano, his travels are done.
"Devyn told me there won't be anymore visits, official or unofficial, and in his mind the recruiting process is over," Mangano said. "For him, it's now a decision process. Once he commits to a school, unless something catastrophic happens and a coach gets fired or something, it's going to be done and Devyn will move on to the next chapter in his life."
Comments
That's a hard one. Who should you trust more: the program that Frank Beamer built or the program that covered up Sandusky just to maintain the image of the program JoePa built?
The waiting game, ...I'll try not to get my hopes up (as if they aren't already)
Given the rumblings we've been hearing from our football alumni recently, the quote about who will look after him for the next 40 years doesn't exactly instill confidence...
Edit: HOWEVER we all know that Tech is always home to all alumni from the second they step off campus at graduation. Positive vibes man!!
"Both schools are outstanding and have really earned his trust. He is very high on both of them."
Will you accentuate the positive, already?
You're right Fam. Edited my comment appropriately
ty
The wa-ai-ting is the hardest part.
My favorite Tom Petty song
May he rest in peace.
I want to believe but it's tough.
I read the thread title as referring to the details of his commitment to us. I thought he'd just decided to declare early. WAY TO GET MAH HOPES UP, JOE!
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Still good feelings
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I...can't do it....I can't get optimistic about this. UNC and PSU have dirty pasts and they still are a recruiting thorn in our side.
I know students wouldn't be in town, but how cool would it be to have a 'decision watch party' in Cassell?!
Pretty sure that's illegal.
How so?
Sure, it looks great if he commits to the good guys. If he doesn't, it just looks kinda pitiful.
FYI everyone, I'm in the final stages of moving from the NRV up to NOVA. While I'll still be an active member around here, my information may not come as fast or direct, as I won't be seeing my Blacksburg people as much. I can still shoot them a text whenever, but naturally things will be slowing down a bit for me on that front.
Sucks to be you.
Eh, as you can tell from my username, I'm used to the city life and am kind of looking forward to it. Traffic doesn't bother me and outside of 395, it's not close to as bad as LA. I obviously love Blacksburg and the surrounding area, but I'm really looking forward to having more options of things to do.
My SO's family is also from there so it will be nice to have someone to take care of the kid when the time comes.
You're crazy.
The traffic will be a factor in your decision making.
You will either a) pay more to live where you want to be, b) let traffic dictate your schedule, c) stay in your neighborhood, d) pay for HOT lanes, or (likely) all of the above.
I could see making the trade-off for more opportunities to do things, though. There are lots of nice options in the Washington area.
so... not Louisiana Hokie?
I thought it was Lower Alabama Hokie.
I thought it was Hispanic female hokie.
I lived in both as well. traffic sucks in both places. DC area (From Fredericksburg well up into Harford Co, MD, north of Baltimore, is just as bad as Los Angeles from Orange County on up to Thousand Oaks.
The difference is that self important politicians will drive around motorcades at 20 MPH faster than anyone else and large sections of highway and roads will be inexplicably closed as senior politicians travel as the Secret Service decides to halt everything from rolling anywhere for 2 hours before and 1 hour after they've gone their merry way.
Totally agree. A virtually recession-proof area with abundant well-paying jobs, top-notch public schools, low crime rates, and great restaurants and shopping suuuuuucks.
That's probably why only a couple million people have chosen to live there.
That's a couple million reasons why it sucks. I like looking out of my house and not seeing another house close by.
I have a friend who just bought a house in Lorton (maybe Lorton? I dunno) and was so excited. It was this big, really nice house. Cost upwards of $500K...and you could touch it while touching the neighbor's house with arms outstretched. No thanks. If I had that kind of money to spend, you'd find me on a hundred acres in the foothills of the blue ridge.
My opinion? People live in NoVa because that's where the jobs are. Convenience is just a consolation prize for having to deal with the mess. Why do you think development keeps creeping down 29? Because more and more people are willing to give up the convenience of actually living up there for the sake of being away from the mess.
Just my 2 cents
I grew up and went to high school in Lorton. Back when the prison still existed and there wasn't so much development it was really beautiful. Now its jam packed with houses and structures. It looks nothing the same. It's kind of sad to go back to my parent's place sometimes.
Me too, at the corner of Silverbrook and 123. My parents neighborhood was one of the first new sub-divisions built there back in the 80s. Everything else around it was farm land, prison, and a smattering of tiny 10-15 house neighborhoods built in the 50s. Every time I drive around there now it blows my mind how much more developed it is.
I'll offer the opposite view - I'd use that money to live directly in the city. I'd sell my car and walk/bike everywhere. I don't need a big place, just a kitchen to cook in, a bed to sleep in, and a family room to lounge in. The rest is just gravy. I don't see the allure of having a lot of land; I don't spend a whole lot of time in my apt, it's really just a place to call home base.
Of course, the dream is to one day own a condo in the city, and a vacation home in the Mountains, be able to have the best of both worlds.
sounds like you don't have any kids....decent plot of land helps with them plus if you're into hunting you have the land to hunt and/or fish on and some people just like the quiet of the outdoors from the porch.
but to each his own....
I can understand this.
I appreciate the benefits of rural living and the benefits of urban living; the suburbs have the worst of both.
I live in a downtown loft in a city similar sized to Richmond, maybe just slightly smaller, but the downtown is taller and much nicer and it's awesome. I also used to live in the Chicago area and enjoyed that as well. DC/NOVA just isn't the best city. I find the traffic, people and cost of living is egregious and overwhelming and I'm not a stranger to cities. It all feels like one large crowded shopping mall.
DC is great, NOVA kinda sucks
DC is a lot of fun if you have the money to play, or the attitude to slum it.
You're going to the wrong parts of NoVA.
You're going to the wrong parts of NoVA.
There's a right part?
Yes:
1 brewery makes NOVA awesome?
Where did you get that from? He asked if there was a "right part" in NOVA.
Beyond that, every place has pros and cons. If you focus on only the cons then you will be miserable.
Honestly, I was just trying to be funny...
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As was I.
I grew up in Falls Church, it's the number 1 "county" in the country for quality of life. https://www.google.com/amp/s/patch.com/virginia/fallschurch/amp/27463367... And I can honesty say I had a blessed childhood. I wouldn't have wanted to grow up anywhere else. I can't afford to live there now but in 10 years when I start a family I would consider moving back. FC is it's own city inside the beltway with small town charm and 10 minutes from all the perks of D.C. on the metro which I could ride my bike to as a kid. The bike trail system is incredible. I could fish in the Potomac or the canal anytime I wanted. Get a cheesesteak in Georgetown on a Friday night and pretend I was 20 when I was 13 walking the strip. I loved living in NOVA...don't forget all the amazing ethnic food you can find on Columbia pike in lower Arlington or koreaville in Annandale. The little pockets of splendor like westover where the original lost dog is and westover beer garden. The extensive creek systems and parks. Hundreds of bball courts to go play pick up games with strangers on a summer night. Old movie theaters like e street and uptown in Cleveland park...Nova was great
I think what we're finding in this thread is that your NOVA experience is going to vary greatly depending on where you are. Everything you describe sounds like what I would be looking for in an ideal place to live. But having grown up in the part of Falls Church that wasn't centered around the city, I can honestly say not only did I never see any of that, i literally couldn't even imagine it as a kid. I don't think I realized you could walk places and be part of a community until I got to Blacksburg and eventually out of NOVA. Life was driving to strip malls and shopping at chains, and that seems true for most people I know who've stayed. But you had the complete opposite experience, and if I had that I'd probably feel the same way you do, so it's probably less the area and more about finding your spot.
But damn do I miss all the international food.
Right there is the greater Falls church area that is very spread out and part of Fairfax County that is very different from City of Falls Church
I had a similar experience... in Ballstown of all places... when I lived there a while back.
I loathed nearly everything about living there except that I lived on top of the metro, and that I had that extensive trail system right out back of my building. That's one thing they got right in NoVa and it really is a treasure. Connecting it to the trail system in DC/Rock Creek via Roosevelt or Memorial makes it (IMHO) one of the best urban trail systems on the planet and an experience that's truly unique to the area.
Edit: Another bonus of living there was that I got to watch several Hokie games at First Down, but that was before the TKP crowd made a home there. This was back in the days when most folks would go to that sports bar in the Ballston Mall... what was the name?
I believe you're thinking of Baileys?
Yup.
That's a bingo.
I have had a similar experience now as an adult. However, I grew up in PWC which I hardly consider Nova now, but it is what everyone thinks of for some unknown reason, strip malls and chains. And that was my experience at the time. That's why my original post was "you're in the wrong parts of Nova". It's like any other city/region, it is what you make of it. If you only go to times square in NYC, you're going to have a bad time.
He's right. Old town Alexandria is my personal favorite. Courthouse area of Arlington being another.
Ragtime is my jam.
You mean that street with the Banana Republic and the Bubba Gump's Shrimp Shack?
Pretty sure there's no Bubba gump in Old Town. You're thinking of Baltimore.
I work in Old Town. Can confirm there is no Bubba Gump Shrimp Shack. Very few chain restaurants actually, with the exception of some fast food joints. Also, plenty of other restaurants and bars off of "that street" (King St.).
There is a Banana Republic though, so you got me there.
I really enjoy this website because 75% of the updates in the thread about the blue-chip RB were a NOVA, Old Town, DC discussion.
For the record, Arlington used to be my jam, but now DC is the go-to followed by Old Town for a low key evening. Old Town needs better sports bars.
This website is like the inside of my brain and not many people can understand why I am the way I am. Yet here you have built an entire website that's just like it .
I like Bugsys.
Its deep dish is heaven.
DC is a true city. NOVA a square peg of a suburb that is being shoved into a round a hole that is a city. They are trying soooo hard to be a city, but it's just an urban sprawl.
I'm not sure you can broadly classify Nova as a suburb. I also do not think that there is a "they". Nova is a region, with good and bad parts. Nova and DC is kinda like Brooklyn and Queens to Manhattan to me, just on a larger geographical scale.
I chuckle because I refer to all the NoVa and Murrland refugees that descend upon the city during the weekend as "bridge and tunnelers."
And yes I realize I'm just affirming the notion that DC has an NYC inferiority complex.
In the NYC analogy, I would compare NOVA to Hoboken, not Brooklyn or Queens.
And I think that's the difference, you seem to equate Nova to the Tyson's corridor and outer fairfax areas more than the alexandria/arlington area.
Which is fine, but not really an accurate view of the better parts of NoVA.
Nova's not really a suburb, but it's not a city or part of a city by any stretch of imagination. There's no center or hub at all. I hesitate to even call it a suburb because most of NOVA has no real relation to DC. Growing up there I hardly knew anyone who went to DC more often then every couple of years, and I know extremely few who even work in the city. It can only really be categorized as sprawl.
^This. The region is massive and encompasses everything from Loudoun to PWC to Fairfax to Arlington.
While my wife and I would eventually like to move back to Richmond (where all the future grandparents live), we've mostly enjoyed living in NOVA. For a couple years we were a 5-minute drive from Historic Manassas, which we loved. Great bars & restaurants.
However, getting to our jobs in Reston & the City of Fairfax sucked, so we moved to Fair Lakes which cut our commutes by more than 30 minutes each way. There's more chain restaurants here, but it's extremely walkable with trails to the commercial centers. We can walk 10 minutes to the movie theater, or to non-chain sports bars (like the new Carpool location).
This was not my experience growing up Fairfax, VA. Most everyone's parents worked in DC, the Pentagon, or Arlington. If you don't want to call the Pentagon, CIA headquarters and gov't buildings in Rosslyn DC, you'd be technically right, but they're within 1 mile from DC for a reason.
When I moved back to NoVA after graduation from VT, I was in DC about once to twice a week to play softball and or for food/drinks.
(I will note that I remember a lot of gov't buildings moved to Alexandria to Ballston in my high school years, so maybe they're even more distant from DC now)
Don't forget to write!
I can watch after your sauces while you're gone. I promise to take good care of them
1. Moving is the worst.
2. Join us for a beer (or 20) and Tech football at First Down this season. It gets rowdy.
I live in DC and First Down is pretty much the only place I watch VT games. Can't wait to see you guys there. Very fun times to be had.
I will actually have to make it to First Down for a football game since moving here last year.
We might be getting orders to Chantilly soon! It's looking more and more like we will, so I'm pretty excited.
...not necessarily about being in the DMV area (cost of living and traffic will be outrageous)
..but getting the fuck out of South Dakota is awesome, ..and...I'll probably buy season tickets for football, and FINALLY make it to Lane Stadium for the first time ever.
While I enjoyed my time on the motorcycle in SD, I wouldn't want to live there. I will keep my fingers crossed for you!
Are you at Ellsworth AFB now?
Yeah man, been here a little over 4 years now.
4 years at one duty station? Who did you piss off in personal? My best friend was opposite end in 6 years was at two different "bases" but spent most of his time on tdy to various ME countries, Gitmo and Germany .
Man, prior to this we were at Barksdale for about 6 years.
If the relationship with the coach is one of Ford's top priorities, then we should have Dylan Rivers in his ear and explain why he chose Fuente over that other dude.
"in his ear"?
That's ........ creepy .......
"Every breath you take
Every move you make
Every bond you break
Every step you take
I'll be watching you
Every single day
Every word you say
Every game you play
Every night you stay
I'll be watching you"
Gotta see what their hair smells like, bro.
I'm going to get ahead of this and start freaking out now.
I can't imagine this is a close recruitment if it weren't for Slade and Sanders. Hope that they're reason enough for him to come to Blacksburg.
Whether or not he selects the Hokies, I will look forward to moving on in recruiting. Right now, just about everyone is really gung-ho about Devyn, but I think Brandon Smith will be a little more valuable. I hope Fuente and his team put a full-court press on Smith following Ford's announcement
Already prepping the "we wanted this other guy more anyway" argument. I like it. You handle recruiting season like a much older hokie, young padawan.
I would rather not have Psu have the 3 best players in Va
[Looks at current LB talent/depth/production]
[Looks at current RB talent/depth/production]
I'm going to have to strongly disagree.
[looks at Brandon Smith tape]
I feel like we're getting into these final lists more than we used to but still not seeing the results for blue chippers. Let's hope we can pull this one off.
Hate to say it but we're getting close to the point where we can't say "things are getting better - soon we'll get those blue chip guys". Not to say our recruiting isn't trending up, it definitely is, but imo we just need a Ford or two in every class to compete. We haven't crossed that chasm yet.
There will be ups. There will be downs.
Someone track down the Devon Hunter commitment "super fan" and lets get him tied to the 100 year old trees in Stadium woods.
quick, someone tell him it's been rescheduled for the 19th!!
Panic button has been enabled, but not quite hit yet on 247, regarding Ford.... They are all of a sudden not feeling it.
noticed the 2 new PSU CBs as well... wonder if BAG and LAH have any updated perspective?
The "Let's panic because some crystal balls came in on 247 two weeks out from the commitment date" mentality is just super overreacting. A lot of times these recruits don't even decide until a day or two before the announcement.
I understand that, I was only pointing it out.
This has nothing to do with the Crystal Balls. The 247 VT mods are all of a sudden not feeling near as good on DF. A few days ago they felt pretty good and today not so much. It could be indigestion, or they could have heard something they don't like. That's what everybody is reacting to on 247.
Maybe I am in the minority, but I am not worried at all. Sure last couple CB's have gone PSU but those are from PSU/Big 10 guys.
It was all VT before his one/last visit to PSU. I don't buy him just falling in love just off that one visit. Could be wrong but I have a feeling (with no sauces) he coming to VT.
Fuente and co. laid out the red carpet since day 1 and I think Ford realizes it. Now if we don't land him, I might be in the minority again with no being all that upset. I am/would be more happy with getting big uglies up front on the o-line to help average QB's/WR's/RB's look that much better.
My heart says VT (chance to be THE GUY on campus and in the RB room), my head says PSU (the NFL draft didn't help much with the Barkley and Franklin love fest that was going on all week leading up to the draft). I think it comes down to who he feels is more authentic. I don't have any sauces when I say this, but I truly believe it will be VT, and I'm fully prepared to have my heart broken as well:
I had to watch that gif many times before realizing what exactly was shattering lol.
Good thing there is auto rewind built in LOL
He's still had 67% VT crystal balls. 247 board is going bizzurk. Another reason I can't stand it over there. (Mostly) Love and positivity here.
There is NOTHING else the coaches could have done to sell the kid in the team and school. But this is going to have some hot takes on social media and other fan sites.
Yeah I perused 247 and saw plenty of these hot takes. I don't see how any reasonable person could stand to frequent those boards.
I mean there are people there yelling about even if Ford signs there are still too many questions about Fuente because he doesn't have Tech in the BCS discussions. Like who are these people?
Me when I read recruiting VT Twitter, TSL, or 247:
Being a Hokie fan on May 18th will be embarrassing if Ford chooses PSU... not because we missed, but because of the river of shit that will flow from many Hokie fans on Twitter... ugh.
Why i don't "twit"...
Why are we "what-ifing" that?
Positivity, folks! Positivity!
I don't think I like where this thread is going, and I'm all out of bourbon.
I'm finishing my Blantons Single Barrel in the form of a mint julep. It is perfect for this thread. Next up is Four Roses Small Batch.
You have excellent taste.
Enjoy the Four Roses. One big ice cube is all I need with it. Making me thirsty thinking about it.
Devyn is literally only retweeting Tech stuff right now lol.
That makes me nervous
The freak out is true and well deserved. Bonds were made at Penn State. Still not sure how this goes. I'd say 50\50 and we have 2 weeks to get through to him. I'm a bit more optimistic then they are but Ford is tell both sides what they want to hear.
If Ford does pick PSU, there is going to be a black eye on that day for VT. The "fans" are going to embarrass themselves. Please don't!
Ugh... it's why I hate twitter.
The only thing more embarrassing than losing Ford to PSU because of a bromance with Cam Kelly and Ricky Slade, will be the select idiot VT fans polluting twitter with garbage.
I'd like to think some of these guys could control themselves, but I've been proven wrong many times before.
Honestly. I question the fandom of someone who
1. Hates on a coach who is one of a select few coaches who has won 19 games in his first two seasons at a new school
2. Uses anonymous social media platforms to bash a 16-18 year old. Honestly college or older should not be talking to high school kids in general - it's just weird. People have to see that?
My only guess is they're actually Tennessee/UVA fans and just want to paint us in a bad light...or are extremely short sided.
Edit: What? I dont know what youre talking about, I spelled it correctly....
"anonymous", but you're right on all counts.
I'd be more worried about "short sided" instead of "short-sighted". Of course, we could debate the proper length of sides all day.
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If he picks us I'm throwing one Super Duty Fiesta.
did someone say fiesta?
Hoping for the best, gonna make a donation to the Hokie Club tonight...maybe the good vibes will cause a ripple effect.
Lol can we just donate straight to Ford
something..something..."NCAA violations"
I hear crab legs are virtually untraceable.
*This was just a joke. Do not act on.*
Just pay in cash. Don't write a check.
I understand some peoples' reasoning for the hand wringing, but my stance remains the same.
The conspiracy theory which I have convinced myself into believing in order to sleep at night is that Devyn Ford is a marketing whiz, who in order to create as much suspense and intrigue surrounding his announcement as possible, is playing up PSU as a school he is heavily considering. After cancelling his OSU visit, there was a drama vacuum, and he is simply using PSU to fill that void.
He's gonna be a Hokie!
Two situations in which Back to School references are appropriately used in 24 hours. I like it
While my thinking isn't quite as crazy as you make it sound, I'm in the same boat. I do think he's genuinely considering PSU though.
The kid is going to be good, wherever he goes. I just hope he's a hokie so I can talk about how good he was 20 years from now.
You know... to irritate the people who claim we shouldn't be talking about Kevin Jones because he was nearly 20 years ago.
Nothing wrong in talking about how good Kevin Jones (or any past player) was. It's stupid to hang your hat on a recruiting event that happened nearly 20 years ago to draw it as a parallel. You then sound like an irrational Miami fan who continuously lives in the past glory days.
Fanning the flames...
Link
P.S. - I come in peace. At the end of the day I think he's Hokie!
You know, when I first saw this post, I read the title as meaning that he had committed already, and there were details provided in this thread about it.
I guess threads are like a box of chocolates...
remind me why i clicked this page today?
I think he should go to the school that has an offense that will best display his talents. Don't have time to study the PSU O. What are some opinions on who's offense can display his talents the best, and how the techniques he will need to learn will transition to the NFL?
To me that answers the question of what is best for him for the next 40 years.
I mean all things equal you should go with the school that just put a RB in the NFL at #2 overall 1000 times out of 1000. People don't like to hear that but it's true.
What it really comes down to is whether or not he wants to compete with (at least) two other blue chip RB's for playing time or be the sole backbone of the offense at VT. Not whose offense suits him better.
That's terrible reasoning. Saquan would have gone 2nd overall for almost any school in the country. Even if your only reasoning is NFL aspirations (and for Ford, it pretty clearly isn't) basing it off of a single data point would be awful logic.
I mean you don't know that. Saquon wasn't a can't miss number 1 prospect like a Clowney or Garrett that would have gone 1 anywhere. He was the 13th rb of the class.
No, it really is pretty terrible reasoning. Elite QBs should go to Wyoming because Josh Allen was taken 7th. Last year the first WR taken went to Western Michigan (Corey Davis) and the first LB taken went to Temple (Haason Reddick). None of those guys were considered can't miss number 1 prospects either. Does that mean elite WRs and LBs should consider those schools over quality P5 schools? That's nonsense.
Prior to Barkley (who started as a freshman and it was immediately clear that he was underrated as a recruit), James Franklin started Akeel Lynch and Bill Belton over Zach Zwinak. All of them went undrafted but Zwinak was actually the only one to ever play in the NFL, so you could argue Franklin made a poor decision on who to play. One could argue it's just as plausible VT has had a stable of Lynchs and Beltons and Ford would be our Saquon Barkley.
I always laugh when I see people say lines like "(insert linebacker name) should see that Tremaine Edmunds is going to be a first round pick, so he should think about coming to VT because of that"
Do people really think that pulls a lot of weight here? Maybe a little to none.... Sure its what the blue bloods can pull when they constantly put players in top 10/first round like anOSU, Bama, etc. but we aren't that.
So like you said, where is Temple and Buffalo getting the next greatest LB prospect? Is Western Michigan getting any star WR recruits? Wyoming and QB's? UTSA and DE recruits? ... They aren't. Those are diamonds in the rough prospects that come out of nowhere for the most part.
The Tremaine example isn't an argument in itself so much as a counter to the oft-repeated assertion that blue-chip LBs don't come here because Bud's defense has a poor history of getting linebackers into the NFL. It's evidence that if you've got the talent and the measurables, you can get from VT to the League at the position. If you're doing a pro/con list, Tremaine's draft position isn't necessarily a pro, it just removes a con.
How is #16 player selected in the whole country, regardless of position, not a pro?
I don't know.
Maybe you should @ Quin Blanding
The meltdown will be real if we don't land Ford. I will probably avoid all VT related things for a day or two if he picks PSU. I would suggest all of you do the same, no need to subject yourselves to that level of negativity over a teenager's college decision. Not healthy, not worth it.
Already have the reaction gif chosen to drop immediately and plans made for the following 4 days.
I hate when fans stay stuck in past recruiting misses and just don't move ford.
As a fanbase, a miss on a high profile recruit such as this would Taurus apart.
As if we're not all on Edge enough already, you just had to start with the Ford puns...
But can you imagine the fiesta if we land him?
I though we already discussed the fiesta above /s
Yeah anyone who gets that caught up in recruiting really needs to go on a soul-searching Expedition
Focus people. Everyone needs to just listen to the Ranger sitting on his Mustang while in Transit. Everyone is Flex'ing their irrational thoughts while trying to Escape reality while on Super Duty. So everyone just keep their F-150'ing composure and contain your Kuga
-GT
And if that doesn't do it, find another explorer and go on an excursion
This is my view on every recruit - 5 star or walk on.
Posted this in the mor applicable thread, seems like CJF heard it through the grapevine (around 2:30 in the video):
Hopefully this message makes it to Ford who wants to be talked about and supported for years to come after leaving the program, I don't have Twitter, but someone needs to tweet this video to him (seeing as he's retweeting everything VT right now). #PermissionToTweetAtCroot
#PleaseNeverTweetCroots
Don't @ him, bro.
That's awesome...thanks for sharing!
I'm not convinced all this hand wringing is justified, but if Ford does choose PSU, I think we have to be honest with ourselves and admit it's not the coaches, it's the program. We don't have the money or the fan support to compete with blue bloods the way we we expect. Ford is the prototype kind of guy that our message is tailored to. Every comment he's spoken has been centered around trust, family, and respect.
At the end of the day he is our top target and by all accounts we have done absolutely everything we could to land a top need who is a perfect match in play style and personality wise in terms of the type of player we target and the type of player who is receptive to our messaging. But in this day and age the gap between elites and non-elites is enormous, and our only option is to shrug off the disappointment and continue building for the long term, which Justin Fuente, Bud Foster, and Whit Babcock are absolutely doing.
Matej Sis did a very good comparison of this today on Twitter.
I'm guessing the Ohio State budget differential is also pretty large, but we split games with them a few years ago.
Yes, we have to do more with less. The important thing is that WE DO, and we do that consistently. We have what we need.
Look at it as if we have less to waste on nonsense, and we know how to do that.
I got my degree from Virginia Tech, but I've successfully worked with and managed Ivy Leaguers. Doing more with less is what we're good at.
Their is a ceiling though both in wins and recruits. The question is what is Techs ceiling?
"There", and we haven't reached it yet. Can we at least give Fuente 5 or 6 years? I think he's still growing the program. Significantly.
So let's not throw in the towel just yet. Let's just play hard and let the points decide.
I would say we are pretty darn close.....if not then you will start seeing the strain soon
On what basis?
I watched this team play in a national championship game. Then I cringed as I saw what I thought was a wasted opportunity afterwards.
I see an opportunity here with Fuente, and what he's building. I'm willing to bet on some progress. How much, I can't say yet.
That was a different time and has no relevance in the College football landscape of today. It's an arms race now. Apple and oranges!
It was a different time.
Luckily, we shot the curl and came out ahead.
Now the job is going to be ever more incremental, but there is still a job to do. I see improvements. This team is within striking range, and that's a good place to be.
We do need to win some recruiting battles, and the competition is serious. But we're in the game, and our AD and coaches aren't slouches. We need to not trip over our own dong, and to keep our eye on the ball.
Again none of this has to do with what happens on the field or with the coaches. Fuente will continue to grow and improve but the financial gap is continually grow larger and leaving us behind.
We will continue to be a 9-3 team with special sprinkled in every 4 years until the other issues improve. We are losing the battle due to the financial game.
NO MONEY NO GOOD RECRUITS!! It's the most effective negative recruiting tool every other team is using. We are seen as a mid tier team by recruits. A fall back option to High Caliber players
Edit:
Nevermind. Let's just be rude and dismissive.
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dang bag you harsh with the gifs today.
I'm being a total ass about this subject. Sorry guys and sorry for being a total ass hat
Striking distance.. Not really. With the way Miami is Recruiting and the strength of Clemson 9-3 will not even get us to the ACC Championship and it we do get there we will get rolled by great teams with great player. 9-3 for us is low 20 in the polls. There is no playoff with that.
We are now! but still when Clemson walks in you can see the difference, our coaching up would be a lot more effective if we were coaching up more quality players. We will see that and on the field the gap will shrink but not close at this point. Team sports still need individuals. This isn't boat racing,this is head to head matchups where individual players can allow for weaknesses in a team, giving matchup problems all over the field. Has the formula really worked, I mean really.
Again Relevant 20 years ago, we saw the shift in college football and we quickly started to see the decline to barely bowl eligible. We went through a good streak but when recruiting took a hit so did our record.
We have something Texas hasnt had in awhile...a great coach. I wouldnt be surprised to see them take off next year. Alot of crap to clean up around that program. Our limitations arent mental they are squarely pointed to the fact that in every aspect of off the field recruiting we are woefully understaffed. The infrastructure that we have in place at this moment can not sustain its current out put. We will lose some major quality people if the infrastructure in not drastically improved and that counts for basketball too.
I am too but he can't win battles if he isn't give the chance at a fair fight. Right now he is taking a sling shot to a sword fight. Gets a few lucky hits once in awhile but can't over match up to the opponents. Also, Tennesse is not a big team, they havent been relevant since Manning was there. I mean shesh did you miss the dumpster fires of Lane Kiffen, Derek Dooley and Butch Jones. The last time UTenn went even 10-3 was 2004. 14 years ago.
Last thing I will say. And I am not trying to be a pain in ass or being a blow hard but we have a coach that can win us a National Championship. The problem is we have the supporting staff around him that will continually burn out and lose quality relationship with these players. Fuente doesnt make the difference in recruiting, its the guys behind the scenes that talk to these players everyday. If they dont have to support they need they wont be able to make it and will burn out.
Look VtKey, I always liked your point of view on VT football, you have a ton of great points. But the fact is VT is at cross road of either making the improvements that are drastically needed or fall back into the shadows of mediocrity and possibly lose much more then just a football game. CJF is a very respected coach and will be wanted, we have to support him and show we want him more than others or he will find a new place to call home and I won't blame him.
There isn't going to be a major influx of money, even if all of VT Athletic fundraising gets a complete overhaul it will be years before we start to close the gap.
So...we've peaked?
edit: Nevermind
The cynic in me:
This whole chain of back and forth leads me to believe that BAG knows Ford's a goner, and he's preparing us for what we need to do to prevent this from happening again and again.
Nope. 50/50 chance but Penn State has been beating the drum of VT "limitations" and its pissed me off. That and Cantor leaving for Florida and gaining at least 10 people to help him do his job that he was doing alone just kind of chapped my ass.
I
Can we flip the card on PSU? "So Devyn, PSU only thinks you can succeed if a school can just throw money at any and everything? VT thinks you are a generational talent that can succeed despite a school having all the money in the world. But to help put you at ease about our financial situation we just spent $X million on the Beamer Barn, we are breaking ground on a $Y million dollar nutritional facility, and $Z million dollar on new athlete dorms. So we are doing just fine financially"
I understand the obvious limitations from a recruiting support staff perspective, but what are the limitations post-commitment that PSU is harping on with VT? I mean at the end of the day you go to school and play football. We may not have 100 people to call you everyday or drop by your school during the recruiting process, but what does that matter once you're enrolled? Do we have limitations in other operational support roles? Do we need a hoard of people to make sure student athletes wake up, get dressed, and go to class? From an academic and athletic perspective, you can accomplish any and everything possible at VT as you can at PSU. It's all about the motivation of the student athlete on what they can accomplish, VT gives you all the tools for success.
Pretty sure he meant 9-3 as being the average season with some variation (ie the occasional special 11-1) which is absolutely possible and seen pretty often around the country. We are doing pretty well now, but we definitely haven't peaked, even if we currently don't have the finances to jump into the top tier.
i agree completely. just got kind of fired up there.
Yeah, I meant 9-3 as the average, with "special" allowing a run for a perfect season. I agree we've got the right head coach. Fuente can win championships.
BAGs concerns are valid ones, but there are the things you can control, and the things you can't. Hiring good staff and making the best case for recruits (including on social media), you can control.
The program has some financial limitations, but they are what they are.
When I talked about mental things, I'm not talking about the coaches or staff, but the people here. There's a sense of futility that I think isn't warranted. VT has a lot of resources. Not that of the top of the Big 10 or the SEC, but not "nothing", either.
I sort of think that if VT can win a few big games, it will be reflected in the finances. Beat Florida State. Beat Notre Dame. Maybe get to the ACC Championship game. I think donations, ticket sales, proceeds will go up.
I'm just saying it's a marathon, not a sprint.
On the recruiting front, we do need to win some of these head to heads. They're tough, but we're right there in it with top 10 teams. I have no doubt we're going to win some of these.
We will always have limitation and I agree with 100% of all that you have said. Those headache loses we have every year will come to an end soon. I can see us becoming a traditional 10-2 team again in the near future.
Despite all the back and forth I think all of us are on the same page and coming from the right place. So....Go Hokies.
After this sentence I read the rest in Denzel's angry voice.
You're never going to get wishful thinking to see it is wishful thinking with appeals to logic and facts because wishful thinking is inherently and purposefully ignorant of logic and facts.
Yet I do too...
Well, there's the glass half-empty crowd, and the glass half-full crowd...
We probably agree on more than we realize, it's just how we label the glass.
Based on marcb's post history, I think his glass is shattered on the floor somewhere.
Haha i laughed out loud in the office reading this post. Good ol marcb.
Good one.
I should have said "or drop the glass".
relevant thought experiment
I don't think the glass is shattered. Far from it.
But I just don't go around convincing myself the glass is full when it's 80% or 90% full - and the glass continues getting bigger. If one thinks the biggest concern by far with retaining Fuente isn't VT hitting its overall funding ceiling and its ability to keep up in the arms race, that's just more wishful thinking.
I honestly think, from an athletics perspective, the only realistic way VT moves into its aspirational athletic tier is a significant increase in enrollment. But obviously this is not without significant challenges and drawbacks outside of the athletic realm - and is a long term solution, not a near term solution.
Sure I would like to see VT move into the upper tier of athletics - particularly football. But I don't live vicariously through the football team and I don't have wild expectations that 9-3 or 8-4 seasons mustn't happen more often than not. And I'm not necessarily opposed to VT retaining some semblance of its soul at the risk of remaining in the 2nd tier of college athletics.
This is part of President Sands's vision for the university. He wants us to be 40-50k undergrad enrollment, competing academically with research institutions like Purdue, Michigan, etc.
Yes. But that's ALOT easier said than done. And it's still not a guarantee to move VT athletics on par with its aspirational peers. VT still has some inherant challenges such as location, ACC revenues vs SEC & B1G, etc.
But a larger student base will generate more alumni which will generate more alumni dollars, deeper regional fan penetration and business support, and greater political clout. All things which to some degrees challenge VT right now and are keeping it from taking the next athletic step (or, more accurately, leap).
Substantially increasing enrollment also presents UVA with a dilemma - particularly from an athletic standpoint - but also from a research and possibly even academic standpoint as a 45,000+ student Virginia Tech pumping out an additional 3,000 new grads each year. UVa will be forced to choose between maintaining its foundational illusion of academic exclusivity and keep it's enrollment small OR try to keep up with VT and expand it's enrollment and dilute its all important admissions exclusivity.
Just giving you a hard time, but the irony isn't lost on me
The lesson is: when facing tough competition, don't be a chicken.
This is the future. Sands is playing 4D chess
Then there is the crowd who studied in parts of campus near Randolph, Norris, and Bradley who realize that the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
To have a high process capability with minimum wasted resources you want your lower operating limit equal to or just greater to your lower specification limit then you get to work trying to reduce process variation.
Up there you say we're pretty darn close, then you say no money means no recruits. No offense, but that sounds like Congress. Is it a question of just throwing dollars at it? How do we spend those bucks to make a difference? Birthday cards? I have been on the outside for a long time and don't have a feel for what more money means. I'm a little confused since some are saying we have done everything we could to convince Ford we are the choice for his future. Do we buy ourselves a perception that filters down to recruits? How is that done? Print more brochures?
How about: Win the big games? Go 11-1? Take the ACC crown?
I am not always around on these pages and just asking because you do seem connected and mean no criticisms to anyone here or involved with the school or program.
I think he said it somewhere else that he's talking about more support staff, and probably higher pay.
Supporting staff and better pay for coaches. I know we will never catch up to Alabama but I saw somewhere the gap in pay between the two schools for coordinators and Asst. Coaches on twitter.
If anybody knows the specifics, I would love to know more details about what the additional support staff brings to the table. Im not disagreeing at all, I would just like to know what they do. There is only so much contact we can have right? And, if we aren't maximizing that, at what point does the constant hovering over recruits just become irritating? What else can they do behind the scenes? Just curious.
Not at all familiar with recruiting process, but I can speculate.
First, let's talk about scouting. Someone needs to watch these kids play, and understand how they will fit into the program. Let's say there's 5 major areas we are trying to recruit (NOVA/DMV, 757, Richmond, Charlotte, Atlanta). In greater metro area for each of these cities, there's 15 high schools we like to recruit from. (Disclaimer - I'm made up these numbers). Lets say every high school plays 10 games and each game is 3 hours. That's 2250 hours of games to sift through and identify players.
There's also relationship building. If high school coaches trust/like the program, they will guide players to you. More importantly, if you don't focus on building relationships, other schools will. I'm not sure how much time this takes to, but again, if there are 15 high schools in 5 different regions, there's 75 high school staffs to build/maintain relationships with.
Next, someone needs to reach out to the player and initiate communication. That person doesn't just meet the player, he learns about their interests, needs to understand what going on in their lives, congratulate them for big achievements, etc. I don't know how many hours it takes to build a relationship with a recruit, but I know that kids don't come walk in and say 'Coach X is like a father figure to me' after three visits.
Also, let's think about a single weekend when recruits visit - someone needs to book travel for the recruit and his family, escort them around campus, introduce them to coaches, tell and make sure they are wowed every minute of the weekend. That effort must be repeated for each recruit.
EDIT:
I imagine recruiting is not that different than being sales or doing relationship/engagement management; it's a lot of pitching your product and building trust. Looking at how my employer does this, it's a pretty big operation. We have people who go out to trade shows and make the initial connection. Then we have people who follow up on those leads. After following up on a lead, we introduce that person to someone in sales who works out the details, bridging the gap between the client and the product/project. We also have a solution consultant that demos different products. Finally, once we get close to signing a deal, we have an engagement director that comes in and 'pitches' how the project will actually be executed, and stays on through the entire project.
That is not done overnight. The reason why there's so many people/phases involved is because it's a long process. I imagine recruiting is similar.
I'm not saying this is a Fuente issue at all.
Fuente isn't the issue at all and he's the type of coach to tech to the next step unless things stay the same.... It has nothing to do with coaches at this point at VT..
For the record, this is what I was trying to express.
I get what you're saying, I just think your math is wrong.
Let's debate it again in two years. I just don't like self-limiting talk. That has an unnecessary cost.
FTFY
There's also diminishing returns from money. Doubling the athletic budget does not double wins, does not double recruits, and certainly doesn't punch our ticket to the CFP. If it was, Texas A&M wouldn't be challenged. They get 3x the donations that Ohio State does. They have the largest revenue and the scary thing is that they seem to be the fastest growing, too. But they were 5th in the SEC West last year. They made a huge coaching hire this year so we'll have to see how it plays out, but i don't think they ever reach blue blood levels of success despite having the most money, being in the easiest conference to sell, and having some of the most fertile recruiting grounds in the country. I think that blue blood success is entrenched deeper than dollars can dig and I also think there's a degree of randomness to it. There's no reason we couldn't go undefeated next year. Any given game has the possibility to go either way and that's what makes sports great. Appalachian State beating Michigan. UMBC beating UVA. I think that Clemson's ascent was either extremely lucky, or very dirty. But the truth is we had the chance to strangle their program in the cradle but we let Dabo slip out of our grasp. I'm rambling but ultimately I think dynasties rise and fall and cinderalla stories happen. Money is great, but there is no true ceiling to what a program can do as that implies that results are predetermined.
That's a great stance to take provided you accept we will lose those head-to-head recruiting battles 9-times-out-of-10.
I do think we need to try and improve on that.
Remember when Apple was the little computer company that competed against IBM?
Yes, yes, I know college football is different. but stuff happens.
Sure. Over long periods of time, and after extraordinary amounts of monetary investment, and after lucking into a visionary leader, firing that leader, then lucking into him coming back. Stuff definitely happens though, and luckily college football is fun as hell regardless, I'm just saying we shouldn't act like the sky is falling when we fail to outperform by ridiculous degrees.
And all that said, remember when Virginia Tech was a tiny school no one had heard of tucked away in the middle of nowhere appalachia? Stuff happens.
Yes. Growing up in Atlanta, I'd never even heard of Virginia Tech until spring of my junior year of high school, when my dad suggested I take a look at it. This was spring of 1988.
Not sure sitting around and praying for lightning to strike is the best approach here.
Remember when The Facebook was a small members-only college project that you needed an invite from a member to join?
Sure. We can sit around and hope to be the next Facebook and ignore the hundreds of thousands of failed ventures attempting to do the same.
Or we can invent Snapchat, Instagram, or Oculus...
Yeah, you have to do your own thing.
You know, invent the future.
I think Snapchats last quarter report was very poor.
May want to pull all your money in bitcoin /s
Too late.
Warren Buffett says Bitcoin is "rat poison".
Remember when Netflix was a small online rental where you would order DVDs through the mail and return when complete?
Yeah, how could they ever compete with Blockbuster?
So you citing the success of some of the most innovative tech companies of a generation should give us hope to VT football's future success?
What IP do we have that will take us there? What innovative approaches do we have that no one else does? How are we doing something different to flip the 'industry' on it's head?
And btw, Facebook, Netflix, and Apple couldn't get it done financially at one point or another, regardless of their product. They needed massive investment to get where they are.
I'm extremely confused at what point you're trying to make.
Justin Fuente
Bud Foster
The fundamentals of Beamerball as has been established over the better part of 30 years
Now we just need a shitload of hedge fund investors to triple our stock price so we have enough capital to really see what this thing can do.
Yeah we're just going to disagree. I like JF and BF, but those guys are good coaches, not program differentiators. And 'Beamerball' has been dead since 2009.
Back to listing unicorn and crossing our fingers.
I can disagree with you all day and all night on that.
Beamer built a hell of a football program on a stout defense and special teams. This is the next generation of that, with a stout defense and an offense that can score points.
I haven't read most of this thread, and I am 100% for pushing everyone to donate more money, we can't take the next step without it. However, Bud Foster leads in like 5 or 6 overall team defensive statistics over a 20 year span. That is a program differentiator, maintaining defensive excellence through several huge college football landscape changes. The #2's and #3's on those lists are usually Alabama, Ohio State, etc.
So reducing Bud Foster to just a "good coach" when he has been statistically a better DC for 20 years than all the DC's the blue bloods have been able to put together over the last 20 years with a fraction of the talent, is very disrespectful. He is a program differentiator, beyond question. Obviously he is older now, and his impact has a time limit, but he was, and still is, a program differentiator for us. At least as recently as for Dax and his father.
You're defending Bud without considering the context of my post.
Bud is one of, if not the best in the biz. We need more than him though if we're talking about differentiating VT from anyone else in the way the OP was talking about how VT could be the 'Apple' or 'Facebook' of college football. We've had Bud here for 30 years and that approach hasn't worked out...why would we think it will suddenly start now?
Yeah VT with Bud right now is like Apple nowadays if Mike Makkula didn't invest $250k in them back in 1977.
Every company gets over its hurdle because they find someone to inject capital to allow them to make it big. The problem with VT is that we never found that angel investor.
What do you mean "hasn't worked out"?
You're not looking at the history of the program.
It's a good thing he isn't a LOLUVA fan.
'Hasn't worked out' in the sense that we're not the Apple or FB of college football as you seem to think we'll be bc we have Bud Foster.
You're all over the map, man. Relating our program to Uber or Netflix because we have Bud is confusing to me. We've had him here for 30+ years and he's damn good at his job, but it's yielded us a handful of noteworthy bowl wins and a single NC appearance. That's not something that I'd compare to two companies at the absolute peak of not only their own industries, but of all industries.
We need a lot more than Bud.
We have a lot more than Bud.
I didn't bring up Uber or Netflix. Try and not get too hung up on the details of the analogy. The point was that there are plenty of organizations who do well by doing their own thing, and they can and do rise to the top of their industry. There are plenty of naysayers for every single one of them.
Bud has been great, but he's not the only thing the VT football program has going for it. I'm not going to bother going through the rest because you aren't here to listen, you're hear to argue. Go ahead.
My point is that VT football has come a long way, and is still on an upward trajectory. It's just a hypothesis, and is impossible to prove, but it's also too soon to say that it's not.
Yea, Fuente is good, but he isn't innovating anything that is so novel that no one else is doing it. It took 5 years or more for people to catch up to Beamerball and Chip Kelly's offense. But, I don't see anything on those lines of innovation, just a great coach. There is also the fact there is no protection of innovation either (unlike patents and copyrights for tech startups). Once people caught up to Beamerball, the niche to success is no longer niche.
An overriding factor in college football is talent anyways. Talent often trumps any innovation.
I agree. If we're not doing anything innovative, and we're not bringing in significantly better talent, these posts about "well uber, netflix, fb,....etc. did it" are worth nothing. There's no reason to expect we win a NC because we retained Bud. Will he give us a better shot than not having him? Sure but Bud (even with JF) isn't going to take us to the next level magically 30 years into his career without some major catalyst.
I didn't bring up uber or netflix, but one thing uber, netflix, and FB all DID have in common was people who didn't think they'd succeed, and didn't appreciate the success as it was happening.
I happen to think that Bud and JF are a winning combination.
I'm not saying that VT is the next Alabama. But I can see VT competing with anyone in the ACC. We'll get a test of that in September.
Next thing you tell me is that some small ride sharing application could potentially compete with and overtake the nationwide taxi network
Remember when Bobby Boucher showed up at Halftime and The Mud Dawgs won the Bourbon Bowl!
1 time danny beat kevin up cherry hill
It was so much better then and basically a hot or not and dating site for most of us.
Apple didn't get where they are by waiting for lightning to strike.
They did their own thing.
What does VT have over the hundreds of other schools out there that leads you to believe we have what it takes to believe we have the ability and luck (it takes luck) to hit success a la Apple or Facebook?
How is citing FB or APPL helpful to us? Just say 'anything can happen' and be done with it?
When I studied at VT, it was a "major independent" in football. I've watched them move to the Big East and ACC and win championship games in both. I've seen two number one draft picks come out of there. I watched Beamer lose to UVa when he could have kicked an extra point and tied the game, but that's the spirit that started our current winning streak of 14 games. I watched Beamer develop an edge through special teams. I watched Michael Vick take VT to the national championship game. I watched VT get picked as an at large team to face Michigan in the Sugar Bowl, and then lose on a bad call from a pac-10 ref, but it was still a hell of a game. I watched Virginia Tech beat Ohio State in the shoe. I honestly believe the team we have now is at its core better than some of those teams that accomplished all of that.
Hundreds of other schools? Pfffft. I'd say conservatively that VT is now regularly a top 25 team, and I'm a big believer in Whit Babcock, Justin Fuente, and Bud Foster. We have excellent facilities, and a good all around staff. There's a family atmosphere that most places just don't have, and it was grown organically, over decades, and mix of tragedy and triumph. Through lots of extraordinary effort by ordinary and extraordinary people, this is a special team.
Yeah, the next level will require winning some recruiting battles, and winning on the field. I feel like we're right on the precipice of that. It will require a lot of hard work, but we have a lot of components in place, right now.
Is it a special place? I think so. We don't have to be a Facebook or an Apple. We're Virginia Tech.
building on your analogy, what is VT football's IP that results in uber success?
edit: it took 20 minutes for me to read the 150 posts and should have hit refresh before posting...
It was Frank Beamer, Special Teams, Bud Foster, Michael Vick.
Now it's Justin Fuente, Bud Foster, Quincy Patterson and Devyn Ford.
He's going to PSU, 100% guarantee.
Finally a voice of reason!
Seven Layers coming through with the real #sauces, wait, did you mean VT instead of PSU? LOL
What will you give me if he doesn't?
yep and time of possession is the best indicator of which team will win
Oh thank god
I don't fault BAG for getting a little heated regarding our financial situation. It gets old hearing time and time and time again how we suck at recruiting when we don't have the money to recruit at the level of our peers. And the people who are most responsible for helping increase that funding are the same people who keep saying we need to be doing better without actually opening the checkbook to make it happen.
Eventually something is going to have to give. My fear is that its going to get to the point where the Hokie Club is going to be much less nice about the need for money and be very much more blatant about how the money needs to come. Given the mindset of the fans toward money, I'm not sure I want to be around if and when that happens.
Can you explain what you mean by that?
Nah, I would hate to be wordy
But in seriousness, I can see us exploring sharp increases in season ticket fees and possibly exploring a significant increase in the Student Athletic Fee in the next 5-10 years if things don't get better. Even with the progress we're making, we're still falling behind, and our giving levels pale in comparison to our peers. But we are likely to see a very vocal backlash when these things are done.
I think our student athletic fees should match the conference average at least.
I disagree for long winded reasons I posted below. I disagree vehemently for those long winded reasons.
There's -0- correlation between athletic fees and athletic success or recruiting success. Not when your top teams all have lower athletic fees than we do -- even as low as $0.
Why is that a fear? Is HC 'nice' now? Who cares if they're 'nice?'
The money DOES have to come. It takes money to win and we have a ton of fans who have felt no urgency to contribute over the last 20 years. Maybe it's time to get a little more serious.
Your fear is my fantasy, my friend. Hokie Club needs to start holding our feet to the fire. Given the number of our living alumni and the caliber of jobs that our graduates land, there is no excuse for our current situation. Twenty years ago, Coach Beamer brought our program national recognition for free. Unfortunately, given the state of the blue blood arms race, that will never happen again for us or for any other program. Our athletics department will need to spend money hand over fist to make us nationally relevant again.
Our athletics department and Hokie Club need to start playing hardball. If a few bridges with fans get burned so the program as a whole can move forward, then so be it.
Also, student involvement in HC is pathetic. HC needs to start hosting some bomb ass events that have $20 buy in from students. We need to get our students involved early and build a habit of giving back to the program.
I'm not going to disagree too much there. I just know our fanbase and I've seen how we've taken to small increases in fees in the past. When shit hits the fan, and I agree, it needs to soon, its not going to be pretty. But I agree, its worth burning a few bridges if it means we get our head out of our ass and start acting like the largest major university in a major conference in the region that we are.
I agree 100% with everything you said. If getting alums to start donating is a major hurtle then we need to be smarter and bring them in while they're still students. Also I think having so many international students hurts as they generally don't have any interest in American sports and are less likely to give back as alumni. Idk about the legalities but it would be nice to up the athletic fees of the international students that throw around fuck you money and drive Maseratis around campus.
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Although extremely poorly worded, there is a point in there.
I'm thinking here at Arizona St. Largest public university in the country now at this point, every advantage you could imagine for recruiting, and their football team sucks. You head down to Tempe and its a ton of Middle East money with literally no reason for them to donate to the school, especially not the football program.
Its all about ROI. Some schools just have people that get a much better return from other uses of their money. And frankly a lot of donors get no return at all for their investment, unless we are quantifying emotional enjoyment. Winning football games is completely meaningless in the grand scheme of things for a huge % of the population, no need to get too worked up about it.
edited for sensitivity
Except Joe Student who's taking out two different loans and working part time has to pay those same fees. We have the lowest student athletic fees in the state and I'd prefer that it stayed that way.
Our current athletic fee is $154/semester...
What I'm about to say ... I need you to understand that I respect the f*ck out of you for paying your way through college and taking out two loans to do so...
But $154/semester is about $1200/4 years. That is such a drop in the ocean compared to 4 years of student loans. They could triple it and you would hardly notice it when the time came for you to start paying loans off.
And I'm upvoting your post because I really do think you're the man (or woman) for putting yourself through college regardless of financial circumstances.
That same thinking has gotten us single digit percentage raises in tuition for the past twenty years. We both know what that has done to cost of attendance.
I'm pretty sure myself and everyone else currently paying student loans off would notice if there was an extra 3k lumped on top of it.
$1200 across 10 years (not taking interest into account because I'm lazy) is $10/month. The average college graduate wouldn't notice a deviation of $10.
If you include 6% interest at $10 a month that $1200 actually costs a little over $1800 over 15 years.
Applying the same math to tripling the student athletic fee gives us 15 years to pay $5500 at $30 a month.
Edit: I don't know why this caught a dv. I just ran the figures through a loan calculator if you're hating on my math skills (or lack thereof).
And the problem is, if we want to compete like our peers, we need to start acting like our peers. And part of that is jacking that athletic fee up to around what we see both in the commonwealth and ACC. Last I saw, we were significantly behind in both, and we can't be there and at the same time twiddling our thumbs wondering why our finances run so much lower.
I don't mean this in a snarky way at all, but can you point me to your source on ACC athletic fees? Clemson doesn't list athletic fees as a line item on their Tuition and Fees page. I do see that Florida State lists their fee as $7.90 per credit hour which averages out to $118 for a full time student.
We can't be a discount school with championship expectations.
We don't have a choice and I'll actually fight hard against raising the athletic fee too much.
Why we don't have a choice:
* in 2015, Gov. McAuliffe signed a bill into law that would limit Power Conference schools to 20% of their total athletic revenues coming from student athletic fees by July 1, 2021.
* in FY2015-2016 (the most recent reporting year), $8.6 million of our nearly $84 million in revenue came from athletic fees
* the only school to bring in more in athletic fees that Virginia Tech for FY2015-2016? UVA at $13.7 million
* the school with the lowest athletic fees in the ACC? Three-time College Football Playoff participant Clemson at $0
* Florida State? $8.36 million of their nearly $114 million in revenue came from student fees -- 7.35%
Notre Dame and Miami aren't required to report their revenues because they're private institutions, but you can find out what their athletic fees were and calculate how much revenue was generated from that based on student population.
Notre Dame, unfortunately, does not break down their "tuition and fees" so I can't tell if there's an athletic fee to attend or not.
Miami, on the other hand, had a $160 athletic fee for 2017-2018 -- nearly half of VT's $308 per student.
With only 10,849 students paying the athletic fee, Miami generated $1.73 million from athletic fees for 2017-2018 while Virginia Tech generated $8.35 million with its 27,140 undergraduates.
Why I'll fight an increase:
There's NO correlation between revenue generation from athletic fees for students and athletic success.
Here's last year's final AP top-15 and their student athletic fee per year:
Out of that entire list, only five schools have an athletic fee that we know of and of those five, only ONE (UCF) has a higher fee and all four of the other schools listed brought in 2/3 or less of what Virginia Tech brought in on athletic fees.
So, no, we're not a discount university and no, we should not raise our athletic fees. We pride ourselves on having the lowest athletic fee in the state and should continue to do so.
To clarify, that's the only school in the ACC to bring in more in athletic fees than the Hokies is UVA. Every D1 school in the commonwealth brought in than VT, but some of them are allowed to earn as much as 78% of their athletic revenue from said student fee (Radford, VCU, George Mason).
Alabama used to have student fees, but got rid of them because their revenue is so strong. Clemson TRIED to initiate student fees a couple of years ago, but got rejected. That same year they bought a private jet for the athletic department.
Clemson is the only public school in the Atlantic Coast Conference or Southeastern Conference that does not charge a student fee and also doesn't charge for student tickets.
I think the current fees are about right. Virginia Tech students have access to some top notch athletic events and facilities, so I think they get something for their money.
Which is flipping genius. Let the kids in free and then hammer them with propaganda so that when they leave, they feel obligated to give. Sure, you'll get some free loaders that never give, but you'll get a lot more that buy in hook line and sinker and give for life.
Reminds me of a non-greek frat that hosted a party I went to in HS. No fees or anything during college. If the upper classmen approved you (it was pretty competitive), you could be in. BUT you had to pledge to give a small percentage of your earnings back to the frat FOR LIFE. The admissions process limited the members and meant they put out a ton of high earners that made up for anyone that flaked on the pledge or just wasn't successful, but overall it seemed to work just fine.
Except that isn't correct. Every school in the SEC is a public school except Vanderbilt. The following public SEC schools do not charge athletic fees:
Alabama (since FY2007)
LSU (since at least 2005, furthest USA Today's data goes back)
Texas A&M (same)
Missouri (same)
Arkansas (same)
Mississippi State (since FY2011)
South Carolina (since FY2014)
As for "getting something for their money", most of my friends didn't attend any athletic events at Virginia Tech during their time. For my part, I only attended them because I was in the Marching Viriginians and then the Pep Band so I was attending for grade.
Here's a link of a Google Sheet I did to compare all of this, incidentally, if you want to delve a little deeper. You'll see that "student fees", far and away, aren't our problem and increasing them, even to the state limit of 20%, of athletic revenue, isn't going to make the dent some of you people think it will:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gAUVOsmnhAYxcWYnLt_Nz1S4j-KVTbwJ...
I wasn't talking about Joe Student, I'm talking about the very affluential international students our university has taken more and more of. They charge them even more than OOS for tuition. I say carry that to the athletic fee especially since the majority will not give another dime to the school once they graduate and pay off their loans.
Whether or not you're talking about Joe Student is irrelevant. Fees are levied on all students.
Levy them variably like tuition is then
Plenty of foreign born students and alums care greatly about college sports especially basketball.
One of my ideas to increase donations and exposure even deals with this.
All basketball games should be streamed on a Chinese language website with two Chinese fluent students doing the play by play. The University of Dayton started doing this and it's been successful.
Whit get on this please.
ugh.... I'm going to give you a pass out of what I am going to hope is sheer ignorance. let me share some facts.
USC has the strongest Chinese student alumni association in the world and they raise money and donate to academics and sports LIKE CRAZY. Here in Shanghai during football season they rent out ballrooms and organize tailgates to watch games live in the middle of the night. I've been to them and it's 90%+ Chinese alumni. There are so many wealthy Chinese (and Asian) families wanting to send their kids to western universities that if ORGANIZED by a competent Alumni office could be a huge difference maker in funding. Additionally those international students you say don't give a fuck actually generally love getting involved in school events..
Here is a fact. Right now VT has one alumni that I know well who is a Chinese citizen. Her family's business has a value of over half a Billion. She personally has given 2.5 million dollars to academics and athletics. Now I don't know how much you have given but I'm willing to bet you're still in the kiddie pool with me and most everyone else. The pool of alumni that are US citizens is much larger and gives less on average.
VT has a growing Chinese alumni pop but ZERO alumni organization. I know because I have slammed my head against the wall trying to organize it for years. VT offers no support at all. Fucking UVA architecture has a Representative office in Shanghai 15 minutes from my home and VT has nothing and never puts forth any effort to change. The problem at it's root is the way they are managed. The alumni office is complete shit. The Hokie Club is honestly, complete shit.
There are historical issues as to why they are so bad, but why add ignorance to that clusterfuck?
USC also has a crazy strong alumni network that they begin selling on the day of matriculation. This doesn't surprise me at all.
The group here organizes receptions for interested Chinese students before they even accept attendance. Their outreach is incredible. Once students are accepted they hold orientation events, their invited to tailgates to learn about football, they are given contacts at USC to meet, they organize roommates...
It's ridiculous how prolific it is and so smart. Students, many of them wealthy, arrive on campus on their first day with USC swag, a support group, invitations to parties, football games, etc.
I believe they had over 3000 people at their last annual alumni event here in China. Stupid amounts of money being funneled in.
So instead of proposing stupid ideas like charging them a relatively small amount more for a finite amount of time, lets be smart and farm donations for decades after they leave.
I've seen a lot of great discussions on this topic lately; unfortunately I have zero knowledge on the subject.
You and the few other outspoken TKP members knowledgeable of the alumni associations and Hokie Club should have a serious conversation outside of this website. This small group should consider drafting a direct/condensed email that details problems experienced, perceived deficiencies, and direct comparisons with other successful universities. In the workplace you bring possible solutions when notifying management of problems, so this email should finish with suggested short and long term corrective actions. Then send that email to the appropriate representatives. Send the email to multiple people so that it has a higher likelihood of being read by people willing and able to act. If their email address is made public, they will receive it. Outraged people don't hesitate to contact low level and senior level university representatives, so constructive criticisms and suggested solutions will likely be a welcomed change.
Things like this are okay to do and it is obvious there are problems that need correction. People affected by the situation just need to make the effort and reach out. When the effort is made, seize the opportunity and don't lose your audience to unjustified opinions or overly excessive and lengthy supportive arguments.
This is an excellent point. Thanks for making it.
For clarity I have spoken with multiple levels of management in VT including the office of the President. There is a lot of "good progress is being made" and "excellent suggestions" and very little real execution. To be frank, I am not a big enough donor for my noise to register.
What is it that you're asking for?
A little money to rent some space and have a mixer for a football game? A full time representative and an office?
I can't see the organization having a problem with what you want, other than having to fund it.
USC is a private school, though, so comparing their recruiting efforts to that of VT is going to be frustrating.
I'm just talking about alumni services. Not expecting anything to level of USC support. My original ask 15 years ago that has yet to be delivered is simply a list of VT alumni that are in China and/or Asia.
Happy to start there.
Ask again, I think their database has improved. In the last 10 years I have been able to get a list for both alumni chapters I have tried to resuscitate.
what did you ask for specifically?
I asked for a list of Alumni registered in the Cincinnati area. When I was in the sticks of Kentucky I asked for a 50 mile radius of the largest metropolitan area. For Cincy, I received a list of about 600 names with addresses and phone numbers. I don't remember if there was a preferred email as well. I don't have the list with me, but there was also some data breakdown for age ranges, how many people were in each suburb, etc. My guess is they have it linked to a GIS type software and can break it down many ways.
...
How well do you know your wealthy donor friend? This seems like an opportunity to float a good idea that she can bring up to the attention at VT and get some action done on it. As you said, you're not high up enough to have your suggestion register, but she might be. Assuming she's the kind of acquaintance you might be able to try that with.
hmm.... slightly complicated question, "I know her well" can be read in a few ways. I currently have no idea if she has donated more or plans to.
The issue as I understand it though is that the information necessary to centralize contacts is largely backlogged in archaic filing systems. Asking them to create a list of known and potential alumni with any kind of criteria just isn't possible. It would take a complete overhaul and modernization of the records and those that manage them.
It would take a big push, and with her yes maybe could get some answers. But my feeling is unless either she or another alumni was offering the money to do the overhaul OR I was able to get a large contingent of alumni here to form an independent group and push it. But then getting the contact info or even just names of people here to track down seems impossible. Easier these days with social media and linkedin, etc but still difficult doing that data mine and requires more time than I have.
Hah, not asking about how well you know her Biblically. Just wondering how close of friends you are, and if she's someone you could comfortably ask her to do a favor for you on something that's frustrated you this much.
I know for a fact that, if your name is on the wealthy donor list to VT, they will listen to you and act on your suggestions. With someone like that, they're more willing to play the long game and appeasing them up front to build up the long term relationship where that person may be able to set up an endowment down the line rather than get them on the hook for smaller recurring payments. I know this at least happens elsewhere because my wife helped get an endowment set up for her job at NC State and that school is bending over backwards to help the family through the process.
The credit to the end result might not go to you, at least from Tech, but if you can get your concerns addressed through your friend, you might still be able to get the changes implemented to make things better. Worth a shot.
just trying to say for now married me it's complicated for me to ask things of her. I agree with your line of thinking though, and will find some means to have that conversation.
Oooooo you used to know her. Now i get it.
So, what I take from this, (and I only embellish a little bit here!) had you married her, the Hokie Club would be firing on all cylinders and we would have the top recruiting class this year.
Thanks a lot...
It's such a small thing to ask...
Could put us at the next level.
If he likes Tech then he better put a ring on it
You had to use a FSU marching band GIF? Well I don't like where this is going.
The comment was perfect. Just seems...
... like the wrong gif choice.
I tried and failed to find a better gif for it
He could always register a twitter account and @ every VT-related account and former athlete??
After seeing how this thread has blown up, a big part of me wants to take a hiatus from TKP, at least until Ford's official decision is announced. The negativity is overwhelming, and I don't think our success hinges on one player. So see you guys next Friday. If you see me before then, I'm a fraud, and there is no reason to trust anything I say anymore, LMBO.
Narrator: And that's when he found out Ford's commitment day was actually next Friday.
RIP George....hilarious man
Just say that SoupHokie's brother is visiting for a week.
I don't blame you, but I do have to say that if you think it's bad here, try taking a look at the 247 board... holy shit. (I got them to extend my free trial until September, so don't worry - I'm not paying there and withholding here ;)
Point is it's insane over there.
Love, Maroon, & Burnt Orange?
Hope we get him.
I don't know what is going to happen with this commitment, but I can tell you we will never get where we want to be losing out on in state kids like this. I actually think even if we get him we are in worse trouble than anyone wants to admit. I know this is beating a dead horse, but is there anybody in the VA top 10 other than Ford giving us a sniff? Not that the top 10 is the be all end all, but look how we have done in the top 20 (or 30) in Va in the last 5 or so years. Not very well. VT has gotten as many of the top 20 as 2 or three out of state schools. This is where we have historically filled out our roster, it is not happening now and the results show it.
Youre going to have a few not pan out, a few leave early and you are left with only a few in state guys who actually make any kind of an impact. This program cannot win (big) like this. It has been proven. Everybody can say we don't need in state talent to be relevant, but there is no proof. The starters on this team need to be majority from VA with some OOS compliments. Not the other way around.
I know a lot goes into this, who is getting offers etc etc but that might be another story.
I've never understood the thinking that we must recruit VA to be successful. If there are more talented kids outside our borders, and they're genuinely interested, we should pursue. I'd rather win a national championship with 0 VA kids than go 9-3 every year with a team made up of them.
charlotte, greensboro, the triangle are all closer to blacksburg than most if not all of the 757 talent and NoVA. same distance or closer than RVA
Not to mention the 757 is a freakin' circus most of the time.
However, it appears that UNC/NC State keep top 10 in-state recruits at a better rate than we keep top 10 in VA. We may be able to dip into NC for top talent here and there, but I don't think we will ever be able to dominate NC. I think location is probably our biggest limiting factor for top in-state recruits (not very proximate to the major population areas in NoVA 757 and Richmond areas). I hate to say it, but if Blacksburg were located where Charlottesville is geographically in the state, I think there would be a difference.
We're not moving the school, even if we already own Scott stadium, so think of something else.
Would be cool if we had just an athletic campus in Richmond.
Well we certainly don't want to move it to Chapel Hill. It's hurricane alley.
Richmond would be even better
If there are more talented outside Va that are interested that sounds great. But every year there are at least 10 guys in Va that are top notch talents. We can't recruit them very well, but you think we can do better outside the state? Doesn't make much sense to me.
I didn't say not to pursue any OOS players, they are essential. But we are losing a majority of the top VA talent to teams we play against. And we certainly aren't getting the top talent from their state.
Exactly! When we start consistently getting top players from oos, I'll agree that in state isn't as necessary. Until then, our in state recruiting needs to improve.
Enters thread after a day off of TKP...
If he wants to be a Hokie he will be. If he doesn't he doesn't. I hope he goes to Tech and I think he's a perfect fit. Deep down I think he's a silent commit - see the new uniform unveiling. But if he doesn't we will move on to the next man up.
He's going to be a Hokie.
I hope we get Symonds and Beaver to go with Hudson and Hanson. If we keep piling up OL like we have the last 2 cycles the RB position will be fine with or without Ford. That is a fact.
I am with you one that one. Give me high rated big uglies and the rest will take care of itself
when the crystal ball starts going to the other team leading up to the committment, it usually means bad news. 93% to us on 4/1. 58% to us on 5/9.
The CB trend over the last one-three days before a commitment date are the only ones that matter.
PSA: I want to apologize for my behavior on this post yesterday. I was having a very frustrating day yesterday and let it out on here.
Nothing I said added to a productive conversation and was against who I want to be on this site.
Have a great day and Let Go Hokies.
ITS OKAY FAM
Nah, it was a reasonable discussion, and most people are hitting on themes we're all familiar with. I think we are mostly all on the same page.
2 new cbs for PUS
Gleitman and Dohn
Until the VT insiders switch Im indifferent. Right now it's PSU insiders, VT insiders, and everyone switching to the latest inbetween
I always forget how 90s qualified she was.
Not saying she isn't qualified now, but she was very 90s qualified.
Likely because Ford came on TKP, saw a thread tagged to his name, and started reading all of the above...
But but but Gleitman gave us a cb for Houston.
This is the phases when the fan base says that the people that do this for a living (crystal ballers) don't know what they are talking about. See below for the 7 stages of crystal balling:
No commitment date set: All CB's to VT. " We LOVE the predictions. he's coming"
Commitment date set: Most CB's to VT. "Some crystal ballers are taking notice, but they don't know."
10-20 days from commitment. 50/50. "The more promiment CB's are only trending because of paid content."
5-10 days from commitment. Trending to other school. "WE DON"T BELIEVE ANY OF IT"
2-5 days from commitment. Trending more to other school. "Feeling Nervous, Fuente we trust."
<24 hours from commitment. Not many VT CB's. "Maybe we'll get lucky."
0-however many days until the next recruit. "F the crystal balls."
An all time favorite
Soooo what did I miss yesterday?
FYI, I texted a buddy of mine who is well connected in the fburg/Stafford area (basically who I've been talking to throughout the whole Ford process) and he told me that he had a convo with someone in Devyn's family yesterday, and they felt that he would end up at VT. Basically he said that he was smitten by the grandeur of his PSU visit, and that if the decision had to come this week he would go there. But he thinks that Devyn is slowly coming around and is again realizing that VT is the smarter choice for him. He thinks that by next Friday, VT will be able to seize momentum back and edge out PSU.
With that said, the smoke around PSU right now is very hard to ignore. My main concern regarding the info above is that if Devyn has already given his word to PSU, and his family member is just withholding that information. We'll know for sure in about 9 days.
this is why this thread exists. Thanks bud
I honestly think most of these CB movements are due to Slade's constant talking on Twitter about Ford. I know Ford is talking to both sides and we still have 9 days.
I still like our chances.
If that's the case then get MV7 to put Ford on blast until commitment day.
So I looked at Devyn Ford's twitter 2 days again, and all of D. Ford's tweets and re-tweets were either not related to either VT or PSU, or were Pro VT. One tweet included both PSU and VT. Is he re-tweeting stuff also that is pro PSU and I don't see it because I don't follow anything PSU related? Also, did Slade and Ford Know each other before a year ago?
They've been friends for a while.
Recruiting is funny because you can spin the narrative either way. I would hope that Tech has told the story of MV7 and how he almost went to Syracuse but they just had Donavan McNabb and he didn't want to be Donavan McNabb Jr. but wanted to be Michael Vick. He then became a generational talent here. Hopefully Ford wants to be the next Devyn Ford and not just Saquon Barkely Jr. But we also use the opposite narrative when recruiting Brandon Smith, essentially saying he could be the next Tremaine Edmunds.
Like LAHokie said and as the Michael Buble song also says, as long as Ford saves the last dance for us I don't care if he flirts around with PSU. Hopefully he can see the long-term vision for his success and the way Tech has pursued him consistently for longest and knows he is a the missing piece to our offensive puzzle.
The trick is to not even follow these kids in recruiting. I don't have a twitter, insta, etc and I don't think I would even know the names of our targets if not for browsing this site. Once a recruit becomes a student, I'll love and support him as a fellow hokie, but until then, there is nothing but pain and disappoint that comes with getting heavily invest in the decision of 17 year olds. Shit, I bet half of this site is double these kids age!
I hope this guy becomes a hokie, but if he doesn't so be it. No matter what, football season will start eventually and the players we have are the ones I will be cheering for.
Since recruiting got confined to the monthly threads I legit only find out who our targets are when they're in front page stories on TKP.
More like triple, at least in my case.
I was just about to say the same thing
Wow it's almost as if you don't want to be miserable over irrational things.
To be fair, I'll get a bit upset at losses by the actual team. But a little irrationality keeps you on your toes!
Here, here!
Guess I shouldn't be surprised this thread went off the tracks.
Would it be worthwhile to create a thread regarding VTs budget/ceiling/fundraising/status in CFB's arms race?
I'm sure its been discussed before but it *is* the offseason and I think we could use a 9 day distraction....
Yes, and like in another topics subthread, tangible suggestions for an open letter from people to VT about how to mitigate/overcome our low donations status should be included.
I think Whit should send out a letter talking about how important donations are in the college arms race and not just that they pay for new facilities and scholarships and all that. People know that's what they pay for, but I bet a lot of people don't realize how far we are behind those teams that are in that national championship discussion on a yearly basis in terms of donations and such. I don't expect us to ever be at the same level of donations as Bama or OSU or anything like that but we definitely need to improve and believe we could get to the level of Clemson.
That needs to be addressed by Whit to the alumni.
The drive for 25 release had all that.
Frankly, the only way someone could have missed that by now is willful ignorance. Anyone who has remotely paid attention to the program has been given that exact message repeatedly.
That being said, one could argue we need to bring back a lot more folks into being interested in the program and in that regard marketing efforts could always improve.
I don't know. I only received one thing from the Drive for 25 that I can remember. Honestly surprised I don't get hit up a lot more. I get hit up more from the Corps of Cadets to give back than I do from normal VT alumni stuff.
Ah, now *that* I think is worth addressing: reaching out and making connections on an individual basis. While I think the general message of "VT needs money to compete" is pretty widespread, there's a glaring need to do a better job reaching out to alums.
I don't know how to feel... I'm gonna go with cautiously optimistic and let this play out.
If we miss on him, life goes on and I'll donate to the Hokie Club
It does, and I agree, so will I.
But, I do think it will really humble us as a fanbase and will make a pretty solid statement about what VT can... or perhaps cannot... accomplish in today's college football landscape without major investment in the program from different revenue streams.
It's a really tough sell. If you can't get the recruits because you don't get enough donations, then you don't get the recruits that make people want to donate, but then if you do get those recruits, people think they don't need to donate.
If he doesn't pick us he will just become another in a long list of blue chip recruits that keep us as the bridesmaid....if he does pick us....he has a chance to help elevate the program and will obviously be looking to be the feature back.
The more I think about it, the less important this is becoming to me. Sure, I'd love to have the kid as a Hokie, but I still think we need to have the right people in the program more so then the most stars. Winning games starts with the right mindset. I don't know Ford personally and I don't like to generalize, but I just think we need a running back who wants to be "the guy." If he wants to be part of a running back duo and share carries almost his entire college career, PSU might be the right choice.
That said, I hope he is enjoying the process and ultimately he becomes a Hokie. I think Fuente is going about this the right way, and ultimately, he will attract the right people that want to be a part of this thing.
Makes me miss David "The Guy" Wilson
https://www.diehards.com/oregon/report-oregon-freshman-rb-jamal-elliott-...
I would guess Duke based on some the articles about his recruitment on 247.
We were his #2 I believe. Named us his leader before his visit to Oregon, where he committed.
With that said, I wouldn't expect us to pursue. Just knowing Fuente's "with us or against us" mentality, I would doubt that he would take well to a kid that signed elsewhere just six months ago.
I would take him in a heartbeat.
This entire thread: