I just saw that yesterday was Michael Vick's birthday, and coincidentally I spent some time yesterday considering a Michael Vick hypothetical that I just figured I'd share with y'all:
If you could "copy-paste" Michael Vick's time in Blacksburg to any other stretch in Virginia Tech history, is there a time when he would have led us to back-to-back national championships? Are there multiple times when that would be the case? If there are none, which 2-year stretch would best benefit from having a carbon copy of Michael Vick, and which 2-year stretch(es) would rival or beat '99-'00 as the best 2-year stretch in Hokie football history?
In my mind, I got stuck on '06-'07 as the ideal spot. Redshirt in 2005 before unleashing him on the world in 2006. The loss to GT is definitely reversed, and we likely avoid the slow start against BC that snowballed into the 22-3 debacle. With MV7-Pt-2 against that schedule, there is no excuse for not going 13-0 and making the BCSNCG, where we would have had an interesting matchup against Ohio State. In 2007, a redshirt-sophomore Vick could make up the difference against LSU, though I'm still pegging that as a close loss. Follow that up with an unbeaten run through the rest of the season, and we march straight into a rematch with Ohio State, where we probably come out on top.
Comments
Those VT teams don't exist without the profile bump that MV7 gave us in 1999 and 2000 in recruiting
I said "copy-paste", not "drag-and-drop". I know MV7 was instrumental to the success of those teams, and without that success our run through the next decade wouldn't have happened.
Hmm, maybe VLOOKUP is a better formula
only if the neighboring cells are in the proper format
I accidentally hit "ctrl-X" and panicked, now it's all gone. ☹️
CTRL+Z! CTRL+Z!
no way MV7 loses to boise st and no way in any world does he lose to JMU. he would have dropped 35 on JMU alone on scramble plays. puts us in the national championship easily. I think we could have beat that bama team with mike. I mean we almost opened up the 2011 against basically the same bama team and were up at the start of the 4th.
Hot take: Tyrod was great, but both of his final two years, we'd have been even better with MV7. National championship(s) maybe.
This is 100% reasonable. It's like saying a 95 is a good grade, but if I had gotten a 100 it would have been better. Your view doesn't knock Tyrod any. Vick was just that much better than everyone else.
While I agree with Alum's assessment, to continue the hypothetical with two sets of years.
2004-2005 maybe.
* The 2004 needed Bryan Randall's leadership, especially as young as we were at WR, though I also don't think we lose the USC and NC State games with Michael's athleticism.
* 2005, we absolutely don't lose to Miami at home and FSU in the ACC Championship game.
And then two sets I think people won't think of:
1998-1999
Three games all on the last play. Maybe I'm wrong and we don't beat Tennessee in the Fiesta Bowl, but I think the year of experience under his belt means we DO beat FSU in New Orleans.
Sorry, but it was only two on the last play. Temple and Syracuse were on the last play, but the loluva loss was the whole second half.
Would Vick still have won that game? I'd like to think so....
This is all great but everyone is forgetting one thing: Stinepring, Newsome & O'Cain. Beamer should've made Kevin Rogers OC.
You can pick any two year stretch from 2001-2011 and we'd be a top 3 team. Mike was that good.
I'm with you on that. I think a carbon copy of MV for any two years in that stretch puts us in competition. His arm strength, mobility, adaptability on the fly, and "swag" elevate the rest of the team.
I don't think the swagfactor can be overstated. That's something I feel like we've been missing for a while. I was at Tech 2002-2007, so missed the MV7 years, but I felt like all of those teams had something the last 6-8 years give or take didn't have. Just my take on it.
I'd be inclined to paste him into the Fuente era. If you put Vick on the 2016 team with Ford, Phillips, and Hodges, that team probably runs the regular season table, and definitely makes the playoffs.
I can see why you'd be tempted to do that, however...the RB situation hasn't been that great in the Fuente era. Defenses would be able to key in on MV.
However... pair him up with a backfield with Ryan Williams and David Wilson; then you have a video game.
I'll readily concede we haven't had a Ryan Williams or David Wilson caliber RB since Wilson was drafted, but I seem to recall McMillan having a 1000 yard season in 2016 without a Michael Vick for defenses to key on. I think the new staff's offensive acuity could offset much of the difference in RB talent.
I'm not saying that would be the *best* team you could assemble with Vick, but that team did take the eventual National Champs down to the wire in an ACC title game without Vick. It's not crazy to think we could've won it with him. I'm not an X's and O's guy, but from what little I've gleaned from reading French's posts, Vick in Fuente's offense would've been [kisses fingers like Italian chef].
Although, it would be fun to see college Vick play with Sam Rogers.
Vick and Doug Easlick would have been more entertaining, in my book. Easlick just liked hitting people. And then he was always open for a short pass out in the flats. Always.
I have to admit, when I saw the title of this thread I thought Vick had taken up poetry, and not the kind he always showed on the field.
That hypothetical was almost brought to reality in the years you suggested, '06 and '07. Copy and pasted MV7 as MV5. I have always said that if MV5 had the attitude of MV7, we would've gone back to the nat'l championship one of those two years.
MV5 was the worst leader I have ever been around. I will never forget the ah-shucks, who-gives-a-shit attitude, he had when we were getting beat by Miami in 2005. It was brutal.
I mean you're 100% right but let's not forget he did flip off all WVU fans.
I think your point still stands but he did very much tell WVU to go f@ck themselves.
And that was better than they deserve.
I would have loved to see him 100% healthy in 2000
I would have loved to have seen him back in 2001. I remember staying in the stands after the Gator Bowl and chanting "One More Year" as he was walking off the field. Someone next to me tried to shush us...I think maybe they thought that would make him feel bad or something. But we all knew he was going pro...we could still hope, right?
If he would have come back, we would have been a tremendous team...
I've said this before on TKP, and it's not a very popular opinion, but I don't think we would have beaten Miami in 2001 with Vick under center. I know that MV7 was loads better than Grant Noel and we only lost by 2 with Noel throwing the same number of completions to the defense as he did to the offense (4), but we really caught them snoozing in the 4th quarter, and potentially the entire game. They were fresh off of consecutive 58+ point wins over #15 Syracuse and #11 Washington, so they probably got a bit over-confident that #14 Virginia Tech wouldn't pose any problems.
With Vick back in 2001, no way do we lose to Syracuse and Pitt, so we are 10-0 heading into the Miami game, likely ranked #2 right behind them. Game of the century, blah blah blah. That Miami team is one of the best college squads ever assembled, and they would have come into that game fired up and ready to go. We probably would have given them a good game, still probably their closest of the season, but in hindsight I still don't think we would've won. It certainly wasn't guaranteed.
Putting it in words like that, if Vick had stayed at VT for another season or 2, we could have seen maybe a Clemson like jump in the program.
He certainly helped the program get to the next level, but it would have been even better IMHO.
Fair enough. At the very least he would have kept us nationally relevant for an extra year or two, which likely would have helped out with recruiting and presented an even better launch into the ACC.
We did see a Clemson like jump. From almost nowhere, to a decade of being "on the map" of college football.
I meant from ok team to winning a national title, like Clemson did. We are more like Oregon. Made it the Natty, but haven't won the whole thing yet.
Oh, no doubt Miami would have been the better team in 2001...that squad is the best in the history of CFB in my opinion, but MV7 at home? We would have had a shot.
Plus, a backfield of Mike, Suggs, KJ and Jarrett Ferguson? It would have been the best in VT history.
Man, if he'd come back for '01 and '02, I woulda loved it ('01 was my freshman year)....and I think with Vick under center versus Grant Noel, we beat Syracuse, Pitt, and No. 1 Miami. Same for '02 with Vick a senior, those losses to Pitt, Syracuse, WVU and No.1 miami all likely have different outcomes.
This all depends if Rickey Bustle is the OC. Drop Vick in any time frame with Rickey B and we're champs
Or basically ANY OC that isn't Stinespring & doesn't consist of Newsome & O'Cain.
Honestly, I think Mike Vick could have made Stinespring look like a competent OC.
Yes & on the flip-side of that coin, Stiney, Newsome & O'cain would've been a hindrance to Vick. There can be no mistake about it, winning the Championship with them there would've been questionable at best. Oh, we would've made it for sure. But the tough defenses of the SEC from the early/mid - late 00s would've been more than formidable against whatever Stiney could concoct, even w/ Vick. Vick still needs a level of competency from the other players, as well as the offensive coaching staff to seal the deal.
no one is going to like this opinion but if mike vick had paul Johnson as an OC. watch out everyone else. vick was LETHAL for VT on the option plays with shyrone.
I wish he hadn't jumped to the NFL early. He needed to mature and not put his legs in jeopardy. Often wondered what we could've accomplished in either era (1999-2003 or 2007-2011) if MV7 had Tyrod's senior year maturity.
Honestly, the problem with MV7 having "Tyrod's senior year maturity" is that I'm not sure he reached that level until prison. He was on record as saying that in his time in Atlanta he never paid attention to film study, he just went out there to make plays. Also, the whole "running a dogfighting ring" thing.
I get what you're saying, but while he would have been more experienced and would have filled out a bit in the weight room I'm not sure he would've ever become the leader Tyrod was his senior year.
I think the money at the young age and stardom played a lot into that. you don't think beamer could have helped him mature? I mean there were 2 routes he could have taken at tech the mike route or the marcus route. id like to think the mike route would have been more tyordish.
I applaud Beamer for the positive impacts he had on his players lives, attitudes, etc. However, he couldn't help everyone and quite frankly, I don't think Beamer could have stopped the train that led to running a dogfighting ring. Prison and a second chance were possibly the only things that could have changed MV7 (imho)
I see a lot of comments on here wishing he would have stayed. And while it would've been fun, it was never going to happen. The NFL was in the process of adding the Texans, and they had the number one pick the next year. If Vick had waited, he likely would've been a Texan, and been running for his life. Remember how many sacks Carr took during his career? How much punishment do you think Vick could've taken before calling it a career?
Carr couldn't run out of a paper bag.
Vick on the other hand...
But Vick also wasn't very big, by NFL standards. He ended up getting injured a lot as it was, I just don't think he would've lasted long as THE player on an expansion team.
06-07 seems like the place to drop him. Not only would he have the best damn defense ever, he'd have Branden Ore at RB, and a matured WR corps of Royal, Morgan, Harper and Hyman. Not to mention Greg Boone and Andre Smith at TE. The only thing would be that damn OL....but imagine MV7 following Big Boone into the line. He'd just pop right out the other side and house it
If there ever was a QB to put behind a bad OL, Michael Vick is it.