And sadly no other studies so far have verified it. Another study sounded like they're supposed to look at that area again soon but from the way it sounded if they cant verify it then it'll be passed off as an anomaly. But still one can keep their hopes
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Well there are plans for a satellite to go up soon that would be able to verify its existence. just gonna have to wait another decade or so which in terms of martian atmosphere science isnt long at all
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While it is water, it is saltwater. Since we haven't come up with a technology to rapidly desalinate the oceans here on Earth, I am not getting my hopes up for Mars any time soon. The better bet would be to take the $ being invested in figuring out whether or not we can live on Mars and put it towards making sure we can keep living here on Earth.
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I'm not sure if I'm interpreting what you typed incorrectly, but investing in space travel has yielded many benefits and does aid in helping us live on earth.
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I believe what he's saying is it would likely be infinitely cheaper in making Earth better than it would be making Mars into a habitable planet. Neil Degrasse Tyson has said this before.
If I'm wrong in that assessment, forgive me.
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I'm paraphrasing because I cannot remember the exact quote, but it was something like "If we can terraform Mars, then we can terraform Earth." Then he went on to explain how it is ridiculous to think of Mars as a bailout if we fuck up Earth because it would cost so much less just to unfuck Earth. #TeamTyson #TeamEarth
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ehh, that really depends on what Earth is contaminated with.
CO2? Yeah OK we can probably develop and build carbon capture systems for less than a terraforming/relocation mission to Mars
Radioactive fallout? Yeah time to GTFO
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The reason we are looking at ways to colonize Mars, is because there is no more land to colonize on Earth.
There is a reason that the big boy countries rushed to claim the land found under the melting polar ice caps on the north pole. Colonizing other planets, will the be the modern day imperialism if we can figure it out.
Also, who knows what kind of material can be uncovered doing so, that will lead to further technological advancements.
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I stated that the wrong way. When the ice began to melt countries like Russia claimed a huge part of the ice caps so they could control any of the potential land under it and the potential trade routes of those parts of the ocean.
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The way I read it, Russia is trying to assert EEZ claims, for the fishing rights and undersea mineral rights (which would become more reachable without the ice), with no expectation of useable land being exposed.
But yes, a rush to expand national territorial claims in the last place possible on Earth. If we could realistically live on another planet, then fire up the Space Conestogas and Boomer Sooner.
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I am saying that even if this source is proven to be there, the human race does not possess a technology to make the water usable for human consumption. All of the talk of colonization on Mars is born of the thought that the Earth will become inhabitable. Rather than putting much more effort or cash into life on Mars, we should be developing or building means to ensure life on Earth.
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While I agree that we should be spending the majority of our resources on making Earth better and investing in sustainable growth, there is certainly value in the long term investment of space exploration (for preservation but also for the simple reason that exploration is one of the most important and fundamental of human endeavours). I would modify your statement to say that the human race does not yet have the means to colonize Mars. And it won't unless we actively engage in trying to do so. Consider that the federal government spends about 0.5% of the federal budget on NASA and collectively as a society we spend maybe 0.01% to 0.02% of our GDP on Space related activities (NASA, defence, commercial satellites, etc.) That's not really that much of an investment.
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Oh yeah I totally agree. It often saddens me that I have a 99.99999% chance of never seeing the mankind do any Star Trek-ian type stuff. The lack of funding that goes into NASA is an abomination.
I realize that even with proper funding, that I still likely wouldn't see it, but damn we're setting future generations back decades without applying said funding now. Hell, maybe even with a decent amount of funding the Webb telescope would be up and running by now. *mean chocolate factory girl voice* I WANT TO SEE MORE OF THE UNIVERSE AND I WANT TO SEE IT NOWWW!
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All of the talk of colonization on Mars is born of the thought that the Earth will become inhabitable.
I would disagree. Talk of colonization of Mars (or other locations beyond Earth) is born of many thoughts, including but not limited to:
Exploration is a basic human desire, and we're running out of frontiers here on Earth. Throughout history, those dissatisfied with their governments/societies have sought to start anew elsewhere. Mars/space may provide those new frontiers.
Earth has finite quantities of natural resources, and if we wish to continue development of human society we'll need to eventually seek resources elsewhere
There is a finite amount of space on Earth, and as population continues to grow, we'll need to look elsewhere for places for those people to live. Otherwise, overpopulation will eventually lead to conflict and/or draconian population control measures.
Just to prove we freakin' can.
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As more and more countries industrialize, the population globally will decrease. Children cost money in an industrialized country, so few are produced.
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Since desalination is generally a lot more expensive than just collecting river/lake water it has not been a big R&D priority. As populations grow and climate change impacts areas with borderline rainfall I think we'll see an increase in desalination R&D and thus an improvement in desalination tech.
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You are correct, I should have said rapidly and inexpensively desalinate the oceans. Desalination might be the most energy intensive method of obtaining water. My point was that if arguably the toughest means of obtaining consumable water is our best option on Mars, we shouldn't be putting money into figuring out how to do it on Mars until we have improved the method here first. Combine this with recent data that 21 of the 37 major aquafers in the world are at risk of collapse (Like this one in the West U.S.) and the importance of improving our technology exacerbates.
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The Martian is required reading for anyone that thinks living on Mars is feasible. It's a great book on what it would take to just survive there and the movie didn't fully give it justice.
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Side note, super impressed with the author, who couldn't get the book published, and then slowly released it chapter by chapter on a website. Eventually it got published, but really impressive how he got there.
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I have never understood the logic of colonizing Mars.
Problem: Earth is dying due to human population depleting it's resources
Solution: Take valuable resources to dead planet
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No joke some guys in my department are on this nasa team that was planning their next deep space mission and it was basically narrowed down to Uranus or Neptune. Nasa selected Neptune because of the fact that they didnt think the general public would be able to take "sending a rocket past Uranus to shoot a probe into it" seriously. I personally disagree they'd get free PR from places like reddit and Facebook.
Think of the possibilities for the names of the probe/shuttle
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Hey, for the umpmillionth time, my wife & I don't have a fecal fetish. Just because I use the expressions in an allegorical sense, doesn't meant we're literally, actually, factually into that shit. Like I said before, I've never even seen 2 girls + 1 cup (unless you count Mama Giraffe & Andrea writing for E$PN). Most of the terms I got off from Urban Dictionary.
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Since we all jumped to arguing the viability of terra-forming mars, I'm gonna offer that the significance of water on mars goes way beyond the off chance we would ever want to live there. For one, it signals that there could have been life at one point, even if it's just single-celled organisms that have long since gone extinct, that discovery would change a lot about what we know in the universe and how we study life on our own planet. And even simpler than that, learning about the past climate on mars and the prior existence of a large atmosphere could glean a ton of insights. So it's pretty exciting regardless.
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Of course, the perplexing quest to find life on Mars may have a simple solution: It's not there, and never was....Talk about looking for Martians and you inevitably talk about water, the almost-magical liquid that sustains all life on Earth and seems to have served as an indispensable kick-starter for biology in our planet's deepest past. "It all started out with 'follow the water;' not necessarily 'follow the life'...but 'follow one of the basic requirements for living systems,'" says Arizona State University geologist Jack Farmer, referring to NASA's oft-repeated mantra for Martian exploration. "There are many indications of water on Mars in the past, perhaps reservoirs of water in the near subsurface as well," he says. "But what is the quality of that water? Is it really salty—too salty for life?"
Without liquid water, Farmer points out, one would naively think organisms cannot function. The reality may be more complex: on Earth, some resilient organisms such as tardigrades can enter a profound, almost indefinite state of hibernation when deprived of moisture, preserving their desiccated tissues but neither growing nor reproducing. It is possible, Farmer says, that Martian microbes could spend most of their time as inert spores "waiting for something good to happen," only springing to life given the right and very rare conditions. Certain varieties of Earthly "extremophiles"—microbes that live at extremes of temperature, pressure, salinity and so on—exhibit similar behavior.
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I call bullshit on the "What is the quality of the water" talk. Why, because life has been found here on earth in the most brutal of climates, and living conditions. I'm sure if there was some sort of water there, there was some form of life there (I'm not saying Martians, but small cell organisms).
Deep down inside, I feel like Mars is just a dead planet, that died millions of years ago.
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Yeah i totally agree with you, but if you're searching for life, you have to also ask the question of what could prevent it. Harsh water COULD prevent it, so it's a question they have to ask, "could harsh conditions in martian water prevent the existence of life", even if the answer is "probably not".
Really though, I just quoted that portion to show that people still aren't sure that life exists, and that the existence of water is a big flag waving asking us to come check it out.
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Comments
POTENTIALLY
It needs to be verified first
And sadly no other studies so far have verified it. Another study sounded like they're supposed to look at that area again soon but from the way it sounded if they cant verify it then it'll be passed off as an anomaly. But still one can keep their hopes
Well there are plans for a satellite to go up soon that would be able to verify its existence. just gonna have to wait another decade or so which in terms of martian atmosphere science isnt long at all
While it is water, it is saltwater. Since we haven't come up with a technology to rapidly desalinate the oceans here on Earth, I am not getting my hopes up for Mars any time soon. The better bet would be to take the $ being invested in figuring out whether or not we can live on Mars and put it towards making sure we can keep living here on Earth.
I'm not sure if I'm interpreting what you typed incorrectly, but investing in space travel has yielded many benefits and does aid in helping us live on earth.
I believe what he's saying is it would likely be infinitely cheaper in making Earth better than it would be making Mars into a habitable planet. Neil Degrasse Tyson has said this before.
If I'm wrong in that assessment, forgive me.
Said much better than I and in fewer words.
I'm paraphrasing because I cannot remember the exact quote, but it was something like "If we can terraform Mars, then we can terraform Earth." Then he went on to explain how it is ridiculous to think of Mars as a bailout if we fuck up Earth because it would cost so much less just to unfuck Earth. #TeamTyson #TeamEarth
ehh, that really depends on what Earth is contaminated with.
CO2? Yeah OK we can probably develop and build carbon capture systems for less than a terraforming/relocation mission to Mars
Radioactive fallout? Yeah time to GTFO
Well, obviously.
Use Mars as the laboratory for testing the terraforming techniques. Make sure they work right before applying them on Earth.
Or as a stepping stone to further locations.
Or, you know, so that when Bruce Willis fails to blow up the asteroid, there might be some humans who survive.
The reason we are looking at ways to colonize Mars, is because there is no more land to colonize on Earth.
There is a reason that the big boy countries rushed to claim the land found under the melting polar ice caps on the north pole. Colonizing other planets, will the be the modern day imperialism if we can figure it out.
Also, who knows what kind of material can be uncovered doing so, that will lead to further technological advancements.
Ummmm.....there is no land under the north pole.....
I stated that the wrong way. When the ice began to melt countries like Russia claimed a huge part of the ice caps so they could control any of the potential land under it and the potential trade routes of those parts of the ocean.
ok gotcha...
The way I read it, Russia is trying to assert EEZ claims, for the fishing rights and undersea mineral rights (which would become more reachable without the ice), with no expectation of useable land being exposed.
But yes, a rush to expand national territorial claims in the last place possible on Earth. If we could realistically live on another planet, then fire up the Space Conestogas and Boomer Sooner.
ah yeah if that's what he is saying I 100% agree
I am saying that even if this source is proven to be there, the human race does not possess a technology to make the water usable for human consumption. All of the talk of colonization on Mars is born of the thought that the Earth will become inhabitable. Rather than putting much more effort or cash into life on Mars, we should be developing or building means to ensure life on Earth.
Total Recall has proven it can be done, if we can melt the frozen water below the surface, otherwise this will happen:
So you're saying if we can't melt the frozen water below the Mars surface we will get the Taco Bell fire shits?
I wonder how many more generations will have to suffer on Earth before that happens.
Random tangent, anyone else find it weird that habitable and inhabitable are synonyms?
flammable and inflammable (yes i do tho)
While I agree that we should be spending the majority of our resources on making Earth better and investing in sustainable growth, there is certainly value in the long term investment of space exploration (for preservation but also for the simple reason that exploration is one of the most important and fundamental of human endeavours). I would modify your statement to say that the human race does not yet have the means to colonize Mars. And it won't unless we actively engage in trying to do so. Consider that the federal government spends about 0.5% of the federal budget on NASA and collectively as a society we spend maybe 0.01% to 0.02% of our GDP on Space related activities (NASA, defence, commercial satellites, etc.) That's not really that much of an investment.
Oh yeah I totally agree. It often saddens me that I have a 99.99999% chance of never seeing the mankind do any Star Trek-ian type stuff. The lack of funding that goes into NASA is an abomination.
I realize that even with proper funding, that I still likely wouldn't see it, but damn we're setting future generations back decades without applying said funding now. Hell, maybe even with a decent amount of funding the Webb telescope would be up and running by now. *mean chocolate factory girl voice* I WANT TO SEE MORE OF THE UNIVERSE AND I WANT TO SEE IT NOWWW!
totally agree. I mean, we even stopped inventing the future.
I would disagree. Talk of colonization of Mars (or other locations beyond Earth) is born of many thoughts, including but not limited to:
Exploration is a basic human desire, and we're running out of frontiers here on Earth. Throughout history, those dissatisfied with their governments/societies have sought to start anew elsewhere. Mars/space may provide those new frontiers.
Earth has finite quantities of natural resources, and if we wish to continue development of human society we'll need to eventually seek resources elsewhere
There is a finite amount of space on Earth, and as population continues to grow, we'll need to look elsewhere for places for those people to live. Otherwise, overpopulation will eventually lead to conflict and/or draconian population control measures.
Just to prove we freakin' can.
As more and more countries industrialize, the population globally will decrease. Children cost money in an industrialized country, so few are produced.
Where are you getting that idea?
300 million people rely on desalinated water already on this planet
http://idadesal.org/desalination-101/desalination-by-the-numbers/
Since desalination is generally a lot more expensive than just collecting river/lake water it has not been a big R&D priority. As populations grow and climate change impacts areas with borderline rainfall I think we'll see an increase in desalination R&D and thus an improvement in desalination tech.
You are correct, I should have said rapidly and inexpensively desalinate the oceans. Desalination might be the most energy intensive method of obtaining water. My point was that if arguably the toughest means of obtaining consumable water is our best option on Mars, we shouldn't be putting money into figuring out how to do it on Mars until we have improved the method here first. Combine this with recent data that 21 of the 37 major aquafers in the world are at risk of collapse (Like this one in the West U.S.) and the importance of improving our technology exacerbates.
You mean like this (Life Straw):
CAAAAAANNOOOOOONBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALL
Breaking: Lake status was confirmed when NASA scientists spotted Bud Foster wake-surfing on it.
Edit: fine.
wake surfing or skurfing*
... spotted Bud Foster wake
Boardingsurfing on it. FTFYAnd now i'll drink
The Martian is required reading for anyone that thinks living on Mars is feasible. It's a great book on what it would take to just survive there and the movie didn't fully give it justice.
Yeah, but
I enjoyed the book and most of the movie - but man, I really hated the last act of the movie.
Haven't read the book yet, so I enjoyed the entire movie.
Completely agree. They basically do the opposite of the book in the last half of the movie, and cut out the most suspenseful part of the book!
Side note, super impressed with the author, who couldn't get the book published, and then slowly released it chapter by chapter on a website. Eventually it got published, but really impressive how he got there.
Same.
And I found the book to be a lot funnier.
I have never understood the logic of colonizing Mars.
Problem: Earth is dying due to human population depleting it's resources
Solution: Take valuable resources to dead planet
Ricky Lake? I wondered what happened to her!
But the real question: is there fissures on Uranus?
I have heard there are deep crevices on Uranus... though, scientists have been actively trying to fill it
For serious though, they say it smells like farts.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/04/24/uranus-fart-smelling-gas-clouds-oxford/545139002/
Edit: Linky
No joke some guys in my department are on this nasa team that was planning their next deep space mission and it was basically narrowed down to Uranus or Neptune. Nasa selected Neptune because of the fact that they didnt think the general public would be able to take "sending a rocket past Uranus to shoot a probe into it" seriously. I personally disagree they'd get free PR from places like reddit and Facebook.
Think of the possibilities for the names of the probe/shuttle
Probie McProbeButt
Probie McProbeButt Anagrams to "Bobbi rectum topper"
instant classic
It's not coincidence
Wait, I thought astronomers had renamed it Urectum to end that stupid joke once & for all??
This is the funniest thing I've ever seen you post here
I agree. Only a slight departure from the usual poop fetish stuff, but that makes all the difference... :-P
Hey, for the umpmillionth time, my wife & I don't have a fecal fetish. Just because I use the expressions in an allegorical sense, doesn't meant we're literally, actually, factually into that shit. Like I said before, I've never even seen 2 girls + 1 cup (unless you count Mama Giraffe & Andrea writing for E$PN). Most of the terms I got off from Urban Dictionary.
Works every time.
I would rather go to Risa and display the Horga'hn.
Since we all jumped to arguing the viability of terra-forming mars, I'm gonna offer that the significance of water on mars goes way beyond the off chance we would ever want to live there. For one, it signals that there could have been life at one point, even if it's just single-celled organisms that have long since gone extinct, that discovery would change a lot about what we know in the universe and how we study life on our own planet. And even simpler than that, learning about the past climate on mars and the prior existence of a large atmosphere could glean a ton of insights. So it's pretty exciting regardless.
Pretty sure they already have found microbial life on Mars.
Nah. There's lots of speculation, and some people pretty firmly believe it's there, but nothing concrete yet.
From https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-search-for-life-on-mars-i...
I call bullshit on the "What is the quality of the water" talk. Why, because life has been found here on earth in the most brutal of climates, and living conditions. I'm sure if there was some sort of water there, there was some form of life there (I'm not saying Martians, but small cell organisms).
Deep down inside, I feel like Mars is just a dead planet, that died millions of years ago.
Yeah i totally agree with you, but if you're searching for life, you have to also ask the question of what could prevent it. Harsh water COULD prevent it, so it's a question they have to ask, "could harsh conditions in martian water prevent the existence of life", even if the answer is "probably not".
Really though, I just quoted that portion to show that people still aren't sure that life exists, and that the existence of water is a big flag waving asking us to come check it out.
Can we just land a dang human on there & bring 'em back safely ALREADY!?!?
Mars University will have a Hokie as a mascot.
Book it.
Just keep those damned robots out, they just cause trouble.
Awesome! Now how quickly can the morons that are humans fill it full of plastic???
The Truth is Out There