Until Virginia Tech becomes a "end point destination" like an Ohio State/Alabama/Notre Dame is, I believe there will always be rumors/articles/reports about other schools wanting to bring in Justin Fuente, always gonna give me offseason stress :(
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Hell, even Alabama isn't immune to it. Before the 'sips hired Charlie Strong, they were rumored to be offering Saban $100M in an attempt to lure him to Austin.
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Maybe I'm crazy but I legitimately don't believe Fuente would leave here to jump right in and replace somebody in a scandal like this. I absolutely don't dismiss rumors about other blue blood jobs like FSU last year because I do think it's stupid not to acknowledge that possibility, but Fuente doesn't seem like the guy who's going to go clean up after a huge scandal and deal with the fallout just because the money/resources are better.
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I agree. I think he'd probably take it if offered, but I don't think we're going to find out. They want a home run hire, and short of that they at least want a Buckeye.
I'd be more worried if this Ohio State scandal happened next offseason, after Fuente wins the ACC with a team full of underclassmen.
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Gary Patterson
Bryan Harsin
Paul Johnson
Mark Dantonio
Mark Helfrich
Tom Herman
Dabo Swinney
Nick Satan
David Shaw
Hug Freeze
Jimbo Fisher
Paul Cryst
Clay Helton
Bob Stoops
James Franklin
Scott Frost
Kirby Smart
I not sure who they can hire out of this list if that's a requirement.
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That includes the playoffs. And yes I left of Frost for some reason. But my point stands of those coaches some have no hope of getting the anOSU job: Paul Johnson, Helfrich etc. Some aren't leaving their current job Satan, Frost, etc.
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The overlap of: successful coach, who anOSU fans will accept and who will leave for the job is a small group. I'm really not sure who they can hire that meets those things. Which the conspiracy says to me Urban won't get fired.
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If he can show he made an earnest effort with their "counseling" originally, shows no evidence of knowledge of future events and if he shows evidence of when he did find out he fired him, I could see him not getting fired.
I mean he fired the guy, even if he can somehow show that was the time he found out and not before I bet he keeps his job...
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I don't see Tom Herman leaving Texas any time soon.
I don't see Bob Stoops returning to coaching, but I suppose it could happen.
Gary Patterson and David Shaw could be reasonable choices, considering they've overachieved for a good while at their current spots. Paul Chryst is an honorable mention in that category, if they finish top-10 again this year he's in the conversation for sure.
Dantonio has been inconsistent in Lansing, but his 3 B1G championships could swing the vote in his favor.
Harsin won the Fiesta Bowl using Peterson's players in his first year, and hasn't sniffed a NY6 appearance since.
Helton hasn't been around long enough, and USCw is on about the same tier as OSU, so I doubt he'd make the jump right now.
Johnson and Helfrich? If I'm Gene Smith, hard pass.
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It would be after Hermans third season. OSU won't get a standing coach this close to the start of the season, they would interim it for a year. But, yes, I think Herman would strongly consider it.
I don't believe Stoops health concerns. Or at least I don't think it will keep him from coaching again. I think his OU move was more about admin/donors wanting Riley. Stoops was pretty stale at OU. An Ohio guy, it's a pretty appetizing option.
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I think Clemson's a great fit for Dabo. I'd love for him to leave, but he's built Clemson to a level comparable to Ohio State and Alabama, and he's almost untouchable at Clemson. It'd be hard to walk away from that.
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Ohio Sate is Ohio State. Clemson is nice and all but its not a blue blood school as much as it wants to be. Ohio State is a top 3 program and they want proven coaches there.
The only thing I can see preventing him from leaving is that he is a Southern Boy amd Ohio is not in the south.
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I agree. I just think the job security he's earned at Clemson would be hard to walk away from. And I think he can accomplish just as much, if not more, at Clemson. He can either be one of the guys in Ohio State history, or the guy at Clemson.
Most of all, if life is close to perfect, I would hesitate to change things up. You never know what will happen when you start over somewhere new.
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Only job Dabo is leaving for is Alabama when Saban retires. There is no reason in the world for him to leave what he's built at Clemson. Only thing would be coaching at a top blue blood that he is an alum of....Alabama.
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Yeah I disagree, the length of history isn't there but Clemson is firmly a blue blood now. They're a dynasty as close to Alabama as anyone can be in today's college football. They pull high ranking classes and are talked about nationally just as much or more than OSU and Alabama. Clemson is a better job today than OSU and arguably just as good as any before the scandal nd Dabo would be crazy to leave anytime soon.
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I say give Clemson 1 more NC win & then they're a blueblood (imop).
EDIT: >sigh< Alright fine. In an attempt to appease others, an argument could be made for 2 more NC wins to attain blueblood status. But that's it!
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No way Clemson is a blue blood. You become a blue blood after decades of sustained success. They could be the team of the '10s with Alabama, but it takes a lot more history to be a blue blood.
Texas, OSU, Michigan, Notre Dame, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Alabama, USC(?). Probably missing a couple. Nebraska has fallen off a bit recently, but besides them, these are teams that have been expected to compete for a title for decades in a row with maybe at most a couple down years.
What Clemson is doing right now is incredible, but blue blood means more than recent success. Fuente could win Five titles in a row at VT starting now and we wouldn't be close to blue blood.
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Yeah I diasagree again, blue bloods can't just walk into a recruits house and have no problem if they've been down for a while. Nebraska, Texas and Alabama before Saban got there all lost that ability with the exception of local area recruits. Hell even Michigan before Harbaugh was pulling in a lot less talent due to their lack of success. The term blue blood is meaningless to young recruits and only means something the older you get and remember older teams. Clemson, today, can walk in and recruit anyone particularly on he east coast. There's very little need to recruit out west for them, even Alabama doesn't venture into Texas and California that often. If you want to make a distinction between current blue blood and historic program sure, but Clemson is at the top there may never be another program like them or Alabama that will make 3 NCs in a row and continue to be in play for more in the playoff era.
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I think that's a fair point. There's a "statue of limitations" so to speak of how much history/tradition matters to an 18-year-old. I remember being a kid and not really caring about Larry Bird and Magic Johnson (I was born in '88) and thought NBA history started with MJ...to extrapolate that to a current 18-year-old, you're maybe talking about Reggie Bush-era USC as the bookmark.
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Pump the breaks there. They've had one great season, and yes it looks like they should be set up for more, but there's a big difference between that and actually grinding out results for 10 straight years while maintaining program stability
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I think Elkton was only acknowledging the possibility. I think they have the potential. Whether they reach it is another matter, but for where they are tight now, it's possible.
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First, I agree with your statement that Clemson is only as good as Dabo. If they can keep it up after he's gone, then I'll grant them blue blood status, but for right now they're every bit as blue blood as Oregon was under Chip Kelly.
As for VT, I actually slightly disagree with you. If Fuente gets us into the playoffs and we win 1 or 2 titles, I'd say we're close to making that blue blood jump, because that would be 2 coaches in a row that got us to that level. That shows an ability to sustain success. And should we ever actually get over that mountaintop, the amount of money that will pour into Blacksburg will ensure we are there for the long haul. One thing is absolutely for certain is that Whit won't let that opportunity pass us by like Weaver did in the early 2000s.
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right now they're every bit as blue blood as Oregon was under Chip Kelly.
Well I gotta disagree with that statement right there. Clemson actually crossed over into the victor status (not to mention, they'd already won before). Oregon's been there twice, lost BOTH times.
If Fuente gets us into the playoffs and we win 1 or 2 titles, I'd say we're close to making that blue blood jump, because that would be 2 coaches in a row that got us to that level.
I guess, but I'm not sure about that.
One thing is absolutely for certain is that Whit won't let that opportunity pass us by like Weaver did in the early 2000s.
FTFY
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Its not the win that gets you that status, its the culture and mindset. Oregon, much like Clemson now, was a complete product of its head coach. The coaches before Kelly were bad, much like the coaches before Dabo were always disappointing. Yeah, Dabo has them playing well now, but if he leaves do you really think Clemson has their shit together enough at a program level to keep that level up? This was the same program that kept Tommy Bowden around for 10 years before they turned it over to a guy who never had coaching experience higher than WR positions coach. Yeah, it worked out for them, but that was a huge gamble, and not indicative they really know what they're doing. Once he leaves, I fear that house of cards will collapse fast, much like it did in Miami after Butch (yeah, Coker won with Butch's recruits... it went to shit immediately after).
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I hear you, but for me, winning is what separates the winners from the losers regardless of mindset & sustainability. Also, Tommy's teams started to do better towrds the end of his career there. Dabo certainly benefited from his croots.
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There was a great Reddit thread a few months back, from which I'll post the top comment, which I agree with.
/u/tacobellemel:
People are mentioning recency bias, but this also just shows people really don't understand what the term blue blood means. The term comes from the idea of nobility, aristocracy, or royalty. It's like being the Vanderbilts and the Carnegies in the US. Mark Zuckerburg and Bill Gates aren't in the same group as the Vanderbilts and Carnegies. So teams like, FSU, UGA, Clemson, UF etc are like the Zuckerbergs and Bill Gates. The recency bias shouldn't even be a thing because that's not what blue blood means. The fact that only 64% of people included Michigan just shows that people don't understand the term.
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I don't disagree with any of that. I think people (including here) are using the term "blue bloods" as a catchall phrase meaining "teams that have a reasonable expectation of competing for championships year-in and year-out". Stewart Mandel described those teams as "Kings", but in differing from the "blue blood" concept, allowed for mobility between the classes. In his most recent version (last May) he included Clemson and Miami and did not include Georgia in the Kings category, commenting on the recent promotion of Clemson to Kings, as well as the continued inclusion of Miami. It remains to be seen if he'd include Georgia in the Kings if he reconsidered the classifications this year, given their recent success.
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"Blue blood" =/= "Top program". Nebraska and Texas are "blue bloods", but they haven't been very successful as of late. Oregon was close to where Clemson is now, but after Chip Kelly left they fell apart, and the same will probably happen to Clemson when Dabo leaves to replace Saban.
Clemson is a top program with Dabo at the helm. But blue blood? Not even close.
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The path to the playoffs is significantly easier for Dabo at Clemson than it is at OSU. At OSU he has to play Michigan and PSU every year. At Clemson he has to play FSU.
The only job he would leave for is Bama.
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No meltdown necessary, but his firing is inevitable. Or maybe a generous "stepping down" to save a little face. But most likely a firing so he has a chance to collect the money owed on his contract via the courts.
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It's not as outrageous an idea as people are saying. I still think it's going to be a MAC guy like Campbell, but Ohio state is a stable program. They've had like 5 coaches since 1950. I think fuente would value that with an unlimited budget. There isn't a slam dunk hire could fall into the lap like Meyer again. Let's not forget Tressel was an FCS coach
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Comments
Until Virginia Tech becomes a "end point destination" like an Ohio State/Alabama/Notre Dame is, I believe there will always be rumors/articles/reports about other schools wanting to bring in Justin Fuente, always gonna give me offseason stress :(
Hell, even Alabama isn't immune to it. Before the 'sips hired Charlie Strong, they were rumored to be offering Saban $100M in an attempt to lure him to Austin.
Maybe I'm crazy but I legitimately don't believe Fuente would leave here to jump right in and replace somebody in a scandal like this. I absolutely don't dismiss rumors about other blue blood jobs like FSU last year because I do think it's stupid not to acknowledge that possibility, but Fuente doesn't seem like the guy who's going to go clean up after a huge scandal and deal with the fallout just because the money/resources are better.
I think he'd absolutely take that job. I also think it won't be offered to him based on what I know of the tOSU fan base here.
I agree. I think he'd probably take it if offered, but I don't think we're going to find out. They want a home run hire, and short of that they at least want a Buckeye.
I'd be more worried if this Ohio State scandal happened next offseason, after Fuente wins the ACC with a team full of underclassmen.
Jim Tressel was quite the unsuspecting home run hire.
Herman almost assuredly tops the list. Then Vrabel, a current NFL coach and alum. Then probably Fickell.
Fuente and Campbell are probably right after that.
Eh, I think they're gonna be a little more fickle w/ Fickell.
OSU isn't going to hire a head coach who's never won a NY6 Bowl. Fuente has never BEEN to a NY6 Bowl. Period. End of discussion.
Gary Patterson
Bryan Harsin
Paul Johnson
Mark Dantonio
Mark Helfrich
Tom Herman
Dabo Swinney
Nick Satan
David Shaw
Hug Freeze
Jimbo Fisher
Paul Cryst
Clay Helton
Bob Stoops
James Franklin
Scott Frost
Kirby Smart
I not sure who they can hire out of this list if that's a requirement.
I think we can agree that playoffs or national championships are included in this. Also Scott Frost won last year, no?
Anyway, best part of the list:
first scene with lame ass joke from 90s foreshadowing the monumental suck fest to come.
That includes the playoffs. And yes I left of Frost for some reason. But my point stands of those coaches some have no hope of getting the anOSU job: Paul Johnson, Helfrich etc. Some aren't leaving their current job Satan, Frost, etc.
ah, I misunderstood the point of your list.
The overlap of: successful coach, who anOSU fans will accept and who will leave for the job is a small group. I'm really not sure who they can hire that meets those things. Which the conspiracy says to me Urban won't get fired.
Im with you
If he can show he made an earnest effort with their "counseling" originally, shows no evidence of knowledge of future events and if he shows evidence of when he did find out he fired him, I could see him not getting fired.
I mean he fired the guy, even if he can somehow show that was the time he found out and not before I bet he keeps his job...
I don't know. The optics of keeping him are terrible, especially once you consider that he fired Tressel for much less.
After doing some light, lazy research, I see your point.
Wait a tic-
Is this whom I think it is???
maybe one of the frost? scot or scott,
Possibly Chris Petersen too
Never won a NY6 bowl game if that's the criteria.
He Beat Adrian Peterson and Oklahoma in one of the most memorable BCS bowl games of all time, close enough.
Yes under a criteria that didn't match the NY6 bar set in the post I responded to.
BCS Bowl is functionally equivalent to NY6 bowl, they essentially just renamed it and added 2 teams.
Please, please, please let OSU offer CPJ. I'm sure the rest of the ACC will chip in to pay any buyout he would owe GT.
It's ohio State. So:
Gary Patterson
Bryan Harsin
Paul Johnson
Mark Dantonio
Mark Helfrich
Tom Herman
David Shaw
Paul Cryst
Clay Helton
Bob Stoops
But I don't see that lust as all that sexy besides Herman and Stoops.
I don't see Tom Herman leaving Texas any time soon.
I don't see Bob Stoops returning to coaching, but I suppose it could happen.
Gary Patterson and David Shaw could be reasonable choices, considering they've overachieved for a good while at their current spots. Paul Chryst is an honorable mention in that category, if they finish top-10 again this year he's in the conversation for sure.
Dantonio has been inconsistent in Lansing, but his 3 B1G championships could swing the vote in his favor.
Harsin won the Fiesta Bowl using Peterson's players in his first year, and hasn't sniffed a NY6 appearance since.
Helton hasn't been around long enough, and USCw is on about the same tier as OSU, so I doubt he'd make the jump right now.
Johnson and Helfrich? If I'm Gene Smith, hard pass.
Herman and Stoops would very much be in play.
But I expect they would end up with Vrabel
You think Herman is leaving Texas after a single season and Stoops is coming out of leaving Oklahoma job for health reasons?
It would be after Hermans third season. OSU won't get a standing coach this close to the start of the season, they would interim it for a year. But, yes, I think Herman would strongly consider it.
I don't believe Stoops health concerns. Or at least I don't think it will keep him from coaching again. I think his OU move was more about admin/donors wanting Riley. Stoops was pretty stale at OU. An Ohio guy, it's a pretty appetizing option.
edit wrong thread
Fuente hasn't proven enough to be on their radar should they can Meyer. They are going to have their sights set much higher than him.
Said it in the other thread, I think it's good fit for Dabo.
I think Clemson's a great fit for Dabo. I'd love for him to leave, but he's built Clemson to a level comparable to Ohio State and Alabama, and he's almost untouchable at Clemson. It'd be hard to walk away from that.
Ohio Sate is Ohio State. Clemson is nice and all but its not a blue blood school as much as it wants to be. Ohio State is a top 3 program and they want proven coaches there.
The only thing I can see preventing him from leaving is that he is a Southern Boy amd Ohio is not in the south.
I agree. I just think the job security he's earned at Clemson would be hard to walk away from. And I think he can accomplish just as much, if not more, at Clemson. He can either be one of the guys in Ohio State history, or the guy at Clemson.
Most of all, if life is close to perfect, I would hesitate to change things up. You never know what will happen when you start over somewhere new.
Only job Dabo is leaving for is Alabama when Saban retires. There is no reason in the world for him to leave what he's built at Clemson. Only thing would be coaching at a top blue blood that he is an alum of....Alabama.
Yeah I disagree, the length of history isn't there but Clemson is firmly a blue blood now. They're a dynasty as close to Alabama as anyone can be in today's college football. They pull high ranking classes and are talked about nationally just as much or more than OSU and Alabama. Clemson is a better job today than OSU and arguably just as good as any before the scandal nd Dabo would be crazy to leave anytime soon.
I say give Clemson 1 more NC win & then they're a blueblood (imop).
EDIT: >sigh< Alright fine. In an attempt to appease others, an argument could be made for 2 more NC wins to attain blueblood status. But that's it!
No way Clemson is a blue blood. You become a blue blood after decades of sustained success. They could be the team of the '10s with Alabama, but it takes a lot more history to be a blue blood.
Texas, OSU, Michigan, Notre Dame, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Alabama, USC(?). Probably missing a couple. Nebraska has fallen off a bit recently, but besides them, these are teams that have been expected to compete for a title for decades in a row with maybe at most a couple down years.
What Clemson is doing right now is incredible, but blue blood means more than recent success. Fuente could win Five titles in a row at VT starting now and we wouldn't be close to blue blood.
Even a team like Miami isn't a blueblood and they won multiple titles, in multiple decades.
That't the draw at OSU.
You have a brand name, that can compete on the recruiting trail with anyone nationally. Clemson is not even close to that level.
Yeah I diasagree again, blue bloods can't just walk into a recruits house and have no problem if they've been down for a while. Nebraska, Texas and Alabama before Saban got there all lost that ability with the exception of local area recruits. Hell even Michigan before Harbaugh was pulling in a lot less talent due to their lack of success. The term blue blood is meaningless to young recruits and only means something the older you get and remember older teams. Clemson, today, can walk in and recruit anyone particularly on he east coast. There's very little need to recruit out west for them, even Alabama doesn't venture into Texas and California that often. If you want to make a distinction between current blue blood and historic program sure, but Clemson is at the top there may never be another program like them or Alabama that will make 3 NCs in a row and continue to be in play for more in the playoff era.
I think that's a fair point. There's a "statue of limitations" so to speak of how much history/tradition matters to an 18-year-old. I remember being a kid and not really caring about Larry Bird and Magic Johnson (I was born in '88) and thought NBA history started with MJ...to extrapolate that to a current 18-year-old, you're maybe talking about Reggie Bush-era USC as the bookmark.
"there may never be another program like them or Alabama that will make 3 NCs in a row and continue to be in play for more in the playoff era"
I think Kirby Smart may disagree with your opinion here. The things that are going on in GA are very impressive
Pump the breaks there. They've had one great season, and yes it looks like they should be set up for more, but there's a big difference between that and actually grinding out results for 10 straight years while maintaining program stability
I think Elkton was only acknowledging the possibility. I think they have the potential. Whether they reach it is another matter, but for where they are tight now, it's possible.
First, I agree with your statement that Clemson is only as good as Dabo. If they can keep it up after he's gone, then I'll grant them blue blood status, but for right now they're every bit as blue blood as Oregon was under Chip Kelly.
As for VT, I actually slightly disagree with you. If Fuente gets us into the playoffs and we win 1 or 2 titles, I'd say we're close to making that blue blood jump, because that would be 2 coaches in a row that got us to that level. That shows an ability to sustain success. And should we ever actually get over that mountaintop, the amount of money that will pour into Blacksburg will ensure we are there for the long haul. One thing is absolutely for certain is that Whit won't let that opportunity pass us by like Weaver did in the early 2000s.
Well I gotta disagree with that statement right there. Clemson actually crossed over into the victor status (not to mention, they'd already won before). Oregon's been there twice, lost BOTH times.
I guess, but I'm not sure about that.
FTFY
Its not the win that gets you that status, its the culture and mindset. Oregon, much like Clemson now, was a complete product of its head coach. The coaches before Kelly were bad, much like the coaches before Dabo were always disappointing. Yeah, Dabo has them playing well now, but if he leaves do you really think Clemson has their shit together enough at a program level to keep that level up? This was the same program that kept Tommy Bowden around for 10 years before they turned it over to a guy who never had coaching experience higher than WR positions coach. Yeah, it worked out for them, but that was a huge gamble, and not indicative they really know what they're doing. Once he leaves, I fear that house of cards will collapse fast, much like it did in Miami after Butch (yeah, Coker won with Butch's recruits... it went to shit immediately after).
I hear you, but for me, winning is what separates the winners from the losers regardless of mindset & sustainability. Also, Tommy's teams started to do better towrds the end of his career there. Dabo certainly benefited from his croots.
There was a great Reddit thread a few months back, from which I'll post the top comment, which I agree with.
/u/tacobellemel:
I don't disagree with any of that. I think people (including here) are using the term "blue bloods" as a catchall phrase meaining "teams that have a reasonable expectation of competing for championships year-in and year-out". Stewart Mandel described those teams as "Kings", but in differing from the "blue blood" concept, allowed for mobility between the classes. In his most recent version (last May) he included Clemson and Miami and did not include Georgia in the Kings category, commenting on the recent promotion of Clemson to Kings, as well as the continued inclusion of Miami. It remains to be seen if he'd include Georgia in the Kings if he reconsidered the classifications this year, given their recent success.
"Blue blood" =/= "Top program". Nebraska and Texas are "blue bloods", but they haven't been very successful as of late. Oregon was close to where Clemson is now, but after Chip Kelly left they fell apart, and the same will probably happen to Clemson when Dabo leaves to replace Saban.
Clemson is a top program with Dabo at the helm. But blue blood? Not even close.
The path to the playoffs is significantly easier for Dabo at Clemson than it is at OSU. At OSU he has to play Michigan and PSU every year. At Clemson he has to play FSU.
The only job he would leave for is Bama.
Buzz Williams on the list I hear....
Wait has Urban even been fired yet? I know we love a good meltdown here at TKP, but this is a little too soon.
No meltdown necessary, but his firing is inevitable. Or maybe a generous "stepping down" to save a little face. But most likely a firing so he has a chance to collect the money owed on his contract via the courts.
Personally, I don't think he gets canned or steps down.
He'll go down amonst the greatest Urbans:
Urban Cowboy
Urban Legend
Urban Meyer
Urban Location
Urban Outfitters
Urban Dictionary
In this order
Where does Urban, Keith slot in?
I'd rank Urban Dictionary a bit higher :)
Yep, I'll sign off for this^^^
This video was worse than a slideshow...
Yeah, and I was a candidate to drop the fries in the deep fryer at McDonald's. Couldn't land the job though. Tough interview.
Someone would like a talk with you...
He good.
Can I get a ding?
It's more likely that Frank comes out of retirement to coach OSU than Fuente getting that job.
Eh... that's not even close to true.
No mention of Bud Foster?
:)
It's not as outrageous an idea as people are saying. I still think it's going to be a MAC guy like Campbell, but Ohio state is a stable program. They've had like 5 coaches since 1950. I think fuente would value that with an unlimited budget. There isn't a slam dunk hire could fall into the lap like Meyer again. Let's not forget Tressel was an FCS coach
It's even crazier the last 5 have been fired.
Umm...he was #10 on the list. Is anyone worried that 10 other coaches from this list pass up the OSU job and for whatever reason Fuente accepts it??