I figured the old thread was too big so start a new one. Urban Meyer has been suspended three games by Ohio State for mishandling the domestic violence accusations against his assistant Zach Smith.
He will be suspended without pay until September 2nd and miss the following games:
Sep 1 vs Oregon State
Sep 8 vs Rutgers
Sep 15 vs TCU (Arlington, TX)
Discuss.
Forums:
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Comments
yawn!
3 games includes the TCU game, right?
That is game #3
/S
I'm surprised anOSU didn't just release a statement that said "Shame on you, Urby!"
From what I heard, that is basically what the board of trustees wanted to do. but the president insisted on a suspension
Hopefully that also includes a 3 game deduction in pay...or roughly 1.9 million dollar loss for Urban
It is without pay, but when you make that kind of salary, is 1.9 million really that much?
He'll end up making it back in "benefits" or as a "bonus" anyway. I'm sure that money isn't lost.
Poor Urbs
As predicted.
Most predictions I heard were 2 games, at least they added a third to include TCU.
Ah, I had heard both.
But you're right TCU is at least something. It's sort of the minimal something, but something.
In their minds, if they lose one game, there goes the championship, not that it's all that far-fetched. If they're looking for an excuse to lose that one, they've got it.
I feel like if they really wanted to make an impact, they should have suspended him the last 3 games of the season
This was the proverbial Quin Blanding-type impact
Oh, you deserve a leg for that. Here's two.
But they didn't want to make an impact, they wanted to risk as little as possible.
Word on the street is he gets to pick and choose which 3 games for player safefty reasons....
They just don't have the depth at the head coach position, it really is in the interest of health.
And we all know what Urban Meyer will do for "health" reasons.....
Wait that's all he's getting?
winning ----> money ----> power
Here's the bottom line: above all else, our culture values money.
So I'll play the devil's advocate... Assuming he didn't do anything illegal (which, if he did, I assume charges would have been filed), then I'm not sure there's an issue here. His hiring decisions and dishonesty to the media were at best embarrassing, at worse unethical. Again, assuming there's nothing illegal, and nothing that is an NCAA violation, what's wrong with a 3 game suspension?
I actually kind of hold this position as well. If he wasn't actively protecting the guy from getting in trouble (using his position as Ohio state coach to prevent charges being filed), then it would be kind of crazy to lose your job because one of your employees was going through a toxic divorce. That said, we are all a little in the dark on the facts of his involvement so I've mostly kept quiet on the matter.
I think it's pretty clear he knew about the allegations and chose to look the other way, or at least not inquire about it in too much depth.
Also, there's an allegation that some OSU coaches tried to talk Zack Smith's wife into not filing charges.
But those details haven't really been verified.
Legally nothing is wrong. If tOSU wants to continue to pay and support Urban and have him be the face of their most important athletic program then I think that's the problem. In 2009 and 2015 he continued to staff Smith even after Smith dropped out of a drug addiction program early, had been arrested and had shown signs of domestic abuse, and after the AD advised Urban multiple times to fire Smith. I personally think that with all of the evidence released it shows the disregard that Urban has shown for such unethical behavior and it would be embarrassing for that person to be such a big role model for the school and athletic department. Also, although I admit I didn't see the whole press conference, it seems like Urban did not take full responsibility for his role in this and doesn't seem remorseful at all.
I'm not saying anything he did was right but nothing he did violated his contract or the law. If OSU wants him as the face of their program then what ever. Lets play football.
Meyer's university-policy obligations includes serving as a mandatory reporter of Title IX-related issues, and he also is required to report allegations of sexual misconduct/relationship violence
I'm gonna edit that out, he did report it to Gene Smith.
I'm still not sure that Title IX even applies, since the victim wasn't employed by, enrolled in, or otherwise connected to the university. Though assuming that he did report it to Gene Smith as he has claimed, even if she was covered by Title IX then Urban wouldn't be the one in violation.
That said, if OSU had any moral compass about them, we'd all be talking about the top candidates to replace the interim coach is at the end of the season.
Actually he did violate his contract, but it is up to OSU's discretion to enforce it.
Full article HERE
Let me say this. If this was happening at Tech and Fuente did what Urban did, I want him gone. Want nothing to do with him. This is almost what makes me glad we aren't one of the "big dogs" that values winning above all else. This should be embarrassing to Ohio State, but most of their fans couldn't care less if it means they win. He'll come back to the biggest cheer he's every gotten in week $4. Oh also he's not suspended for 3 weeks, just the games. He can still gameplan, recruit, and go to practice during that time.
Agreed - this is basically what I am getting at. By keeping him as coach - regardless of suspension, etc. - they are showing that they are willing to sacrifice ethics to win. They are supporting a coach that repeatedly supported Smith and kept him staffed despite what he knew about his personality and lifestyle. If this were to happen at VT I would hope that the coach would be fired because this isn't somebody we want representing the school.
Also from a player's view point, how am I supposed to take that coach seriously when he tries to talk to the team about doing the right thing? If this had happened to Beamer while I was there and he got to stick around, he would have had zero respect from most of the players. And can you imagine Urban going into a recruit's home now and trying to convince someone's mom to trust him with raising their kid for the next 4-5 years?
No respect for the players???? What? There is much more to the college football landscape than the coach. The school, education, experience, teammates, opportunities. And about that last...sending their kid to the NFL after 3 years is how he walks in there and has the parents say ok. If they are going to be at school for 4 or 5 years, they ain't going to anOSU to play school.
What? I said the coach wouldn't get respect FROM the players in terms of him telling them to do the right thing. And if you think this won't effect recruiting, then that's naïve. He's recruiting against other blue bloods that can promise the same pathway to the NFL, so something like this would be a difference maker. Other schools are going to hammer recruits parents with this.
If you think THIS is the difference maker against Jimbo or Saban...well. They are all the same. Just a matter of where you lift weights for 3 years, and what school you choose to not say when you intro yourself on MNF.
I was just saying from being a former player, I see it having an effect on recruiting and current players' views of Urban. You obviously think recruiting is much simpler so agree to disagree here.
Not simpler...I just seem to think at the top top top programs, all the coaches are the same. This isn't going to tarnish Urban, imho, to a 4-star recruit or his parents. I mean, if you're choosing between Urban, Jimbo, Nick, etc...is there that much difference?
Now JF? He's different. Maybe he does land a kid because of who he is and the culture here at VT. But we aren't chasing 25 4-star recruits every year. The culture matters to the lower tier recruits...as it should.
Right and that's why i'm saying a difference maker is Jimbo and Nick being able to go in and say "hey we all obviously have A+ facilities and can get you a national championship and to the NFL,, but Coach Meyer hired, supported, and protected a criminal and a domestic abuser. Do you really trust him to have the right man coaching your kid for the next 3-4 years?" .... If they are essentially equal in all other areas, I don't see how that doesn't have an effect
Yes, I can. He'll walk in with anOSU logo on his shirt, give them a big smile, explain that it is all "a big misunderstanding" and land the 5* kid.
...
He is actually suspended for 3 weeks (maybe more), counting both time served and a full suspension through September 2.
I predicted he'd be fired, and I freely admit that I was wrong. The real problem that I see with this was the trip that urb's 'life coach' or whatever and the other guy took to visit with the chick and talk her out of pressing charges. In a lot of places that IS a crime, and furthermore it's fucking disgusting to have your fixer go help fix something like this.
I'm now going to bow out of this thread/topic because anything else I would have to say would (appropriately) get me downvoted into oblivion.
I honestly thought they would fire him as well. Especially when it was revealed that the AD wanted him fired a couple of years ago and Urban didn't do it.
Since when does an AD need HC permission to fire a coach?
Pretty sure he meant that the AD wanted Zach Smith fired years ago, but personnel decisions ultimately go to the head coach.
From the article yes, AD wanted Smith gone but Meyer refused to do it.
Apparently at aOSU, the HC has that responsibility/authority.
So, what if the AD says it's you or him? Seems to me like he has more than enough leverage to make it happen if they feel strongly enough about it.
Pretty sure the fans and board at aOSU would have fired/killed the AD if he canned Meyer. Remember they didn't even want to suspend Meyer.
I guess that's the question. At what point is unethical grounds for termination?
So Kirk Herbstreit comes on ESPN and says the head coach at a program the caliber of OSU is just too busy to take notice and handle an incident like this, so all programs need to hire a former FBI investigator to investigate these issues and handle them. Too busy to literally listen for 5 minutes to what someone has to say about alleged abuse and make a decision to look into it/report it. This boils down to Urban just being too concerned with football and himself to do the right thing. Ridiculous statement by Herbstreit.
Then, he immediately contradicts that by saying the head coach doesn't really have that many day-to-day responsibilities and relies heavily on his staff. So Urban was too busy doing ??? to take notice, so now it's time to bring in the FBI to handle this stuff for him in the future.
Meyer is also a well known control freak in a profession of insane control freaks.
He can probably recall every weekly gameplan and the special plays he's installed for every week for every team he has ever coached, but tOSU's investigation found he could show large memory gaps in topics he had previously demonstrated deep knowledge on personal matters.
Plus the whole asking how to get rid of old texts and then turning over his phone with nothing older than a year is just sketchy no matter how you look at it.
I love Kirk 99% of the time, but nothing pisses me off more than him calling an Ohio State game or when they have him on ESPN to talk about Ohio State. It's like listening to Jay Bilas talk about Duke basketball.
I generally like and respect Kirk too, but when I heard his comments last night, I was astounded at how stupid he sounded and the blind homerism he was spewing. Urban is so laser focused that he forgot the details on this, but actually he's not really that busy, but let's get the FBI on this. Quite possibly some of the dumbest comments ever.
Really? Yea Bilas praises duke, but he's one of the first in line to rip them when it's warranted. He may be a duke lean, but nowhere near the dickie V/duke/CoachK makeout fest level.
I think Bilas is fantastic and provides great analyses. But, that's just, like, our opinions man.
/leg
I've also accepted it could just be my despise for Ohio State and Duke...
Jim Tressel got fired for players getting free tattoos and selling memorabilia, everyone remember that
OSU wanted Tressel out anyway. When it's convenient for them, they will throw you under the bus if it benefits football.
But he wasn't winning anymore.
Jim Tressel was Ohio State's Tim Tebow. He died for the sins of those who followed him. In fullfillment of the script Ohio, he rose again at Youngstown State.
These sinners don't come to play no little sisters of the poor. Or manage their domestic violence claims with any hint of propriety.
Remember that.
I'm ok with this as long as nothing new comes out.
Would love to go to Happy Valley for the White Out game on 9/29.... That Penn State atmosphere is going to be nucking futs!
There is also this little blurb too...
And this....
Guess we know where Game Day will be on Sept 29...
I was coming to post about this.
How does Urban even survive the stresses of being a College Coach with the heart attacks and memory loss?
First this...
...
Now this...
...
I'm like...
Essentially claiming Urban has dementia and using it to justify keeping him as the CEO of one of the biggest brands in all of
college footballsports is an interesting strategy.Yeah Penn St should just keep quiet in the corner about this one, and we better not hear a peep from Michigan St as well.
But of course the complete lack of self awareness will prevent that, so of course they'll try to 'troll' Ohio St as much as they can while not realizing they're only making themselves look that much worse.
You nailed it: I've already heard that students are planning to wear 'wife beaters' style undershirts to the white out game...
IMO they absolutely have a right to rail on OSU for not giving Urban a steeper punishment. Not comparing the actual crimes themselves because that's a whole different argument but in theory what we're talking about Urban doing wasn't too much different from what Paterno did and yet the punishments given weren't even close.
Unfortunately they'll probably make it more about "Paterno should have been cleared" instead of "Urban should have been fired" but if they went the latter route I would have no problem hearing it from them.
AnOSU dumped the document after the press conference and is getting ripped. Among the things revealed by the "investigators": Urban Meyer after seeing Bret McMurhy release cell phone text conversations changed the settings on his phone to delete text messages older than a year, Urban Meyer and Gene Smith knew about Zach going to a strip club with high school coaches on a recruiting trip, members of OSU staff knew Zach Smith was having an affair with an OSU staffer, Members of OSU staff knew Zach Smith went to an addiction treatment program but didn't stay for entire 10day program. There are others, this has turned into a coverup and you know what's worse than the initial issue, covering it up.
But none of this is illegal.
And? Not being illegal and being a fireable offense are not the same. Also since Urban's phone is subject to state FOIA requests him deleting those messages if anOSU has balls would be a crime.
They still have access, he has just removed old messages to save on the memory.
You didn't just type that and believe it right? It happened MINUTES after Bret McMurphy published his story with messages to Urban's Wife.
Edit: also the "investigators" anOSU hired were unable to retrieve the texts. Soooo yea, he "shredded" FOIA "documents"
I think he forgot this:
I guess I forgot the /s
I guess I don't see the relationship between Zack Smith having a job and him hurting his wife. It's not like if Urban fires him, then Zack's going to stop beating his wife.
It would have taken that anOSU blanket of invincibility around Zach away.
I'm looking at all of this from a "what would I want Tech to do" standpoint and i'll just put it this way... this is not what I would want tech to do. Also I think it's absolutely ridiculous that players can't get a 4 game suspension for selling their own cleats and Urban gets this. Really shows where the NCAA's and university's priorities are at.
I thought it was hilarious last night during the press conference when the chair of the investigatory panel stated Urban did not intentionally lie. I'm pretty sure the word lie is defined by a willfully false statement or misrepresentation of the truth.
Also that they were impressed that he respected women as one of his core values. Really, it's now impressive that someone does what every decent person should do by default?
If he (or they) would respect women they would have publicly apologized to Courtney.
How many sad pizza's does this translate too?
One head coach resignation, IMO.
From Papa John's no less...given what's happened to them lately, those are some REALLY sad pizzas.
I read on reddit, he's only suspended for coaching the games, as in he can still coach up to the game. I doubt there will be a ton of impact from this. I don't see any reason to fire him based on what came out on the investigation.
Bingo.
I read full time suspension until Sept 2. So, no practices until after first game. Can coach practices during weeks of 2nd and 3rd game, but can't coach game.
CBS Sports
Oh man can't coach them up for that tough Oregon St team week 1.
THE Oregon State University
Ohio State basically just said, "this looks really bad and we should probably fire him, but we like winning and don't want to fire him, so we'll hide him from view for another month or so and hope people forget their outrage."
To be fair, they are probably right. The news cycle moves quickly and within a month there will be another shiny object that everyone is focused on. In fact, the UMD findings will be out in a few days/weeks and that will take over the news cycle.
Welcome to the future,
Welcome to the present
While I do think 3 games is a little light, also remember he was on paid administrative leave since 8/1, fall camp started 8/3...so essentially he has missed all of fall camp
I would love to have 3 weeks paid administrative leave followed by 3 days unpaid forced leave over the course of 3 weeks. That sounds like vacation to me. Why does he get vacation for 9 years of covering for a adulterous, wife beating drug addict and I get 60 hr work weeks for being good at my job?
Oh, I would too. I'm just talking from the team side of things, I would think fall camp would be a pretty important time for the head coach to be around. How big of an impact could that have on the team initially is what I'm wondering?
From https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/twelve-revealing-finding...
Nothing truly damning here but as a Pats fan I remember how nuts everyone went with brady and the whole cell phone thing so this to me is kind of a where theres smoke . . . .
Reading people's "dat aint illegal doe" comments are disgusting. It's really sad how Ohio State puts winning football games over integrity and how some people are completely fine with it.
Integrity is dying quickly in the US, unfortunately.
I don't have an opinion on the ruling... whatever. Go Bucks. Yay.
My problem is the lying. Dude can't stop lying. He ACTUALLY said, outloud, that he didn't know about the text messages between his wife and Courtney.
C'mon coach. You gave the press the my wife-is-my-rock and soulmate-bit, and you're actually going to try and convince us, especially those of us who also have spouses, that you and your wife didn't discuss text messages from another coache's wife accusing said other coach of beating her. Your wife texted, "HE SCARES ME"... and she didn't bring that up? Ever?
Coach Meyer will have a fall from grace. Nothing's ever over.
Maybe Courtney used the [private] feature,
What did she use?
Just for perspective, Todd Gurley was suspended four games for accepting ~$3,000 of memorabilia and Terrelle Pryor was suspended five games for exchanging OSU gear for tattoos. What a joke.
Glad to see Virginia Tech is above the fray. Fuente literally fired one his best friends for a significantly smaller transgression. Beamer laid the foundation for this program to be run the "right way", that was his legacy far more so than all of the championships.
Dear Ohio State fans,
Are you comfortable having a coach who has to take medications that make him forget things he once knew in abundance?
Seems to me that sort of thing might be an issue.
What happens if Michigan is up two points after a buckeye touchdown with less than a minute left and his meds make him think his only option is to send out the kicking team?
-Bret McMurphy
this does provide a convenient explanation for Iowa last fall, now Buckeye fans can just believe he forgot they were playing that week
You have to wonder why Urban went to the mat to keep Z. Smith. He put his job on the line. There's more behind this than we know. Hopefully it comes out. There may be rotten fish in Denmark, but there's some big stinking piles in Columbus.
I don't think it's anything more than the fact that Smith's grandfather is Meyer's mentor.
I dunno.....That seems pretty thin, imho.
If your mindset between right and wrong is only legal or illegal you are an awful person and not qualified to be a leader or manager. You are also certainly unfit to be a public figurehead and leader of one of the largest college brands in the country. Shows a terrible lack of leadership that the university only suspended him 3 games. I'd be embarrassed if I was an OSU alum.
TKP name checks out.
Have you seen the tOSU forums? Fans are planning to boycott and not watch the first 3 games to punish the networks and advertisers for unfair treatment of Urban.
Sounds about right...remember, this is the fan base that ran Kirk Herbstreit out of town because he wasn't partisan enough. The local bar I go to to watch VT games is actually an Ohio State bar and the fans I've interacted with there are...interesting. Very few are alums from what I've gathered. Some of them actually cheer when an opponent gets injured.
I live in OH. Can confirm a larger-than-typical portion of their fanbase is despicable. Think of the worst NFL fanbase you can imagine (Raiders or Giants, for instance). Their alums are generally pretty good, but they constitute a tiny fraction of the overall group.
Of the terrible NFC East fanbases, you picked .... the Giants?
I'm an Eagles fan and was sure if a bad fan base was to come out of the NFC E it'd be us or the Cowboys....The Giants are probably in the bottom 25% of bad fan bases in the NFL.
An Eagle's fan calling a fanbase worse then their own:
I didn't though....
NFC East: Worst > Eagles/Cowboys .......... redskins.... a lot of gap ..... Giants > Best
Giants are in the "bottom" 25% when ranking fans from nicest/reasonable to obnoxious/unreasonable
Maybe it's just my experiences with my wife's annoying Giants-loving family from NJ. They're the worst kind of fan, one who isn't very knowledgeable about the sport but thinks they are. Combined with that famous friendly Northeastern disposition, and I'd rather not talk sports with them at all. BTW, they're also Notre Dame fans, which makes it worse.
I've literally never met an Eagles fan, but yeah, I think they'd be up there.
He got the Raiders thing right, though.
we're not gonna lie about it
Wait so he isn't even suspended from the team those here weeks just the 3-4 hours of the actual game? He can practice, game plan etc. what a joke.
He cannot participate in any team-related activities until September 2, which is after their first game.
After that, though, he can lead practices leading up to the next 2 games, but cannot attend the games themselves.
I went over to gauge the temperature over at elevenwarriors regarding the Urban situation...what a S#%#Show!
I'm SO HAPPY TKP EXISTS. Cheers to TKP.
They released the texts between Urban's Wife and the abused and its not a good look for Urban: Records Exposed
Urban being prepped before media day:
His agent asking for his phone for 4 hours:
Wonder why I'm happy Whit picked JF instead of TH?
Article
FWIW, $600 in Miami is not that much. Heck, happy hour Miller Lite's are $7-$9 in South Beach.
Lets pump the brakes a sec. Unless I'm missing something, I'm not seeing anything REMOTELY incriminating about Tom Herman, from both an optics and moral standpoint.
Didn't say there's anything incriminating. And truly doubt there is anything. But they are talking about investigating him anyway...even if there isn't anything.
Saying I'm extremely happy with Fuente.
The tweets in my above quotes are more incriminating. Urban asking his agent what to say at the press conference and him denying everything. Then on top of that his agent takes his phone for 4 hours.
If Todd Herman went to a strip club, that's fine by me, he's a grown man and has every right to go to one. Smith on the other hand has done some really shameful things.
Ohio State is going to get hell for this. They thought it would go away, but its just getting worse.
I think one could debate the optics of this especially from a recruiting perspective. In the world of negative recruiting I could definitely see that being used especially with a recruit's mother.
This and the comment tree aged fairly well, quickly.
From the article it sounds like there is an investigation into whether there were high school coaches also present at the strip club, and whether their experience was covered by Ohio State or Zach Smith, which could constitute a bribe. If Herman was present, that may implicate him in the investigation as well.
My hope is they find out whoever was texting Urban over a year ago and FOIA their phone. Just because Urban deleted one side of the conversation doesn't mean it is gone.
Anyone with a school phone in any way connected to anOSU football program.
via GIPHY