It is a big win weekend. With the official film review coming soon, I wanted to give everyone a raw look at my notes as I watch the game film. This time, we had the coaches version with the wide angle so you could see the play develop down the field. Here are my notes from the Hokies opening touchdown drive. Enjoy.
1) Bubble screen right. Really good reach block by Keene in the slot. Grimsley gets around the edge for around 8. Finishes the run with some thump.
2) Quick screen left. VT was in trips. Two FSU defenders both challenged the lead blocker (Kumah) and neither went to the ball. Grimsley recognized the inside leverage trying to work wide and he cut inside. FSU's linebackers are not scraping to the football out wide. First down.
3) Sweep right. Pfaff and Chung pulling. Decent down block by Nijman. Pfaff pulls way wide, likely to get a defender to widen out. None of the FSU guys react to him. Chung turns up inside of Keene's solid turn out block on the DE (when your tight end can block a P5 DE one on one, that is a huge bonus.) Chung is looking back to the middle and the FSU version of the whip slides inside of him to trip up McClease. The money block was Grimsley cracking inside and rocking the left inside linebacker for FSU. Five yards
4) VT runs a version of the old Cowboys iso lead, except Keene goes left while the run goes right. Keene's block was designed to draw the inside LBs, but they are doing some kind of weird cross stunt and they jam up each other in the left B gap. Both tackles pass block to draw the edge rushers up field. Pfaff does a tremendous job of turning the DT to the outside. McClease cuts between Pfaff and Hoyt. Hoyt stonewalls the blitzer who didn't even seem to be looking for the ball. FSU is playing the Pitt quarters coverage, so those safeties are not up in the box helping. McClease gets a big chunk run. Two LBs in the same gap, and no safety help is a recipe for disaster for FSU.
5) VT tries to slip Keene out to the left flat under the quarters coverage while showing a power run. They hope No. 99 Burns will crash inside keying run. He isn't keying anything. He goes straight to Jackson and disrupts the throw. Incomplete.
6) Iso from the gun. Pfaff turns the 3 technique inside. Nijman turns the DE out. The linebacker charges right into the gap and Keene stonewalls him. Easy run for McClease. Darrisaw is the left tackle and he whiffs on Burns, but Burns can't get over to stonewall the play. Nice blitz pick up by Hoyt on the field ILB as well. Kumah cracks on the safety and gets a piece. Not a solid chip, but enough. McClease is alone with the corner. I would like to see McClease get through that guy.
7) Screen again to Grimsley to the left. I believe with Keene out in front. The blocks set up really nicely for Grimsley to try and get out wide. He cut inside for the sure yardage and got a short gain. I am not sure why VT abandoned the screen game. It really seemed to take some of the starch out of FSU's safeties.
8) Hokies run an inverted veer with a handoff to Wheatley on the jet sweep into the boundary. FSU's linebackers and whip don't even shadow the jet sweep motion. VT ends up with two blockers in front of Wheatley against only two defenders. The run gets a first down but Wheatley kind of runs up the back of his blockers. I don't know what the hell FSU's LBs or safeties backside are doing here. That looks really abysmal. Cunningham set the edge nicely, however the FSU DE didn't make things very difficult by jumping inside.
9) This time VT runs an iso to the same side as the back alignment from the gun. The FSU version of the whip and the safety both fit in the gap for the dive and tackle the RB for a short gain. Cunningham kicks out the end on the iso. I know Cornelsen saw that and had something dialed up where Cunningham would attack the DEs outside shoulder. If they do that and Jackson keeps, he walks around the edge for a TD. Nobody was there for FSU. I am really surprised they didn't come back to that.
10) Jet sweep motion to the boundary (left) pulls the safety over to the middle of the field. Back shoulder fade to Hazelton. Jackson actually throws to the back shoulder so Hazelton can adjust. FSU has been in cover 4 the whole time so the corner will be deeper than the man. Hazelton turns back and catches the ball like a punt. His first TD will be his easiest. Jackson had several other fades against the same coverage and he either wasn't accurate (throw out of bounds, lead the WR which was lucky it wasn't picked) or Kumah threw the corner on the ground. I think VT could have gone to that well more often.
TOUCHDOWN TECH
Comments
I thought the little FSU corner kinda went down like an Italian soccer player.
On both the Hazelton and Kumah TD that was an offensive PI. Sure he put his hands on him and adjusted to the ball, but whoever that corner was is going to have to earn back his man card after that flop to the ground.
There's always contact on that fade, Kumah just let his arms extend on the break. He keeps his elbows tucked next to his chest, and it's just the body contact, no way that gets called.
He may have gone down a bit easy but Kumah leaned heavily on him and definitely pushed off. Easy PI call for a ref. If it was the other way around, I would have felt really hard done by the refs if they had not called that.
I'm almost ok with taking that OPI, just to hear the next 2 minutes of commentary about how absolutely tiny Taylor looked next to our WRs
Lol that does make it slightly more worth it.
I like big guys on little guys- Mack Brown
runner up, but too good not to use here:
It was definitely OPI, but I also had some less than flattering words for the corner as I believe he sold it quite a bit.
For sure, and as you well know I am a liverpool fan and watch a large amount of soccer. Exaggeration is in every sport, on every team including our own (cough cough Xavier Burke). I dislike exaggeration mainly because it feels a bit like cheating. But then we have to realize this is all a game and the rule book is merely a suggestion. The rules come from how the refs chose to enforce that rule book.
If exaggeration gets the refs to notice stuff and call it, it would be foolish to not take advantage of that. I was just kind of surprised to come on here and see people complaining about it, even with my maroon and orange tinted glasses I could see it was OPI.
Oh it was definitely OPI, and I was as frustrated with Kumah making such an obvious push as I was with the corner selling it. That said, I also love European soccer and know well that it is often advantageous to make sure contact/fouls/penalties are clear for the good of your team, and it's simply part of many sports. Gamesmanship has always been a part of every sport, and there have always been zealots for the purity of each game who hate it more than others.
I agree with you both on the call, but I guess you could call me one of the purists who hates it more than others. I don't watch soccer for that reason, I admire the extreme amounts of skill but when you spend more time trying to game the system than show off your actual skills and hard work (I don't consider flopping or exaggeration as a skill), then I lose interest.
Kumah could have caught that ball without the slight push but the corner has no interest in making a play for the ball but fell over easier than my 2 week old son. American football in particular is supposed to be a game of grit and toughness, neither of which were displayed by that corner.
I'll have to disagree here, and not because you are being facetious. An alternate angle camera shows Kumah run hard into the CB and lean on him throwing him off balance. That is where the OPI started.
As for the exaggeration? I used to hate it too, until I understood first hand, but lets take a scenario from football:
Its hot, humid, and middle of the fourth quarter. The game is close and you are a WR running your routes to the best of your ability. All game long #2 has been grabbing your jersey when you make your cuts. Your qb isn't throwing to you because he doesn't trust you are going to be in your place at the right time, the few passes he has thrown have been incomplete thanks to #2. You're mad, you just want to catch the ball and show off your abilities, help the team, and get the coaches to stop yelling at you about your route running. And now, in this very moment, he is targeting you on another route and you feel that same jersey tug and you realize you aren't going to make the catch.
Now in this moment, do you say, "oh golly, he grabbed my jersey and the ref missed it...next play will be different I suppose.." No--every single player is going to sit there and jerk their body and possibly even fall as a result of the exaggeration to get the refs attention.
Exaggeration for exaggeration's sake is annoying. Exaggeration to get the refs attention is sometimes wholly necessary.
I appreciate the example and could definitely see your point about him exaggerating b/c of repeated jersey pulls or shoves. I just went back and watched it again from all angles and can see more clearly that it was the right call. I think that play was just a culmination of everything I hate about the cat and mouse game of DB's and WR's. I do think bringing things to the refs attention can be effective (I used to prefer to talk to them during a break to watch for player x, he keeps getting a handful of my jersey), I just think football in particular is a sport that shouldn't need exaggeration because you are fighting tooth and nail to make sure you make the play.
Kinda of like how Trevon Hill and Ricky Walker (and most of all, Tim Settle) get held almost every play but I would much rather see then fight through it to make the play then just flail their arms and fall to the ground while the running back runs by them. I know the exaggeration is gonna be apart of the game because their aren't enough refs to see everything but would rather see them fight through adversity (tugs, pulls, etc.) so that the refs all but have to make the call if you gave it everything you got and still got shoved to the ground or taken out of the play.
That's my problem with the play. Kumah was in perfect position. That kid couldn't have broken up the pass with Shane's boxing glove.
Please stop disparaging Burke. If you want to watch the plays leading up to him going down, there is evidence that he was likely injured and was trying to fight through it. His limited snaps through the rest of the game would align with this theory as well. If you don't want to take the time to watch his initial injury or sequence before he went down for yourself, that's fine, but I'm tired of seeing fans call out our player based on ignorance.
I know that you wrote this 9 hours ago. I hope that you've read some of the proof that Burke was legit hurt (was injured a couple plays prior and tried to 'tough it out' for a couple plays, then played very little after leaving from that injury).
We lost our right to bitch about selling things when Xavier Burke flopped.
Its been explained ad nauseum that he had been injured on the previous play and wasn't going to be able to run either 50 yards to line up or get to the sideline in time for a sub. I don't necessarily like that is happened either but is different that a corner who wasn't injured that gets beat on a comeback throw and decides to sell the love tap Kumah gave him while he was adjusting to the ball like Steven Peoples had just run over him.
Look, I have no problem that it happened, and it was the smart way to play FSU. But that was a push off by Kumah. He extended his elbows, that's the flag. Keep those elbows tight, it's a no flag. The DB sold it, sure, but what he was selling was offensive PI. Kumah will learn what he can get away with, and will be better because of it.
Dude... come on.
How about a guy being a warrior at a thin position after an injury from an illegal combo block.. its right here
https://youtu.be/RTNmhwLpv5o?t=5117
Bitter has tweeted the vid of the play prior. Take a look, and then go ahead and delete this.
In the coaches locker room show, all of the defensive coaches said "aww you don't call that"; I think Freeze even said it.
It appears someone was using the off season to get better at the back shoulder fade. I thought there were several good ones on Monday. One TD, one should've been a TD.
And the across ur body throw while running for ur life to give the receiver a chance for YAC.
Not going to lie... that throw had me cursing at Jackson until I saw how open Kumah was.
Overall thoughts on Jackson's play...You see a lot of improvement from last year??
Slightly better, missed some opportunities. The Grimsley slant on drive 2 and leading the WR on one of the fades were the low points for me. Missed Kumah wide open on a crossing route too.
He seemed to miss on a read-option handoff to Wheatley (I think), which appeared to have a very good chance to result in a touchdown
Yup
IMO, the Grimsley miss on drive 2 is more the result of the missed block by #75
Shouldn't those back shoulder throws have a much lower trajectory and more zip? I always thought the big advantage created by the back shoulder throw was that the defender would never be able to turn and locate the ball in the air. It utilizes the timing of a quick out without the risk of an interception.
It can be. On a fade though, it is an intentional underthrow to the outside when the corner is playing quarters and has to be deeper than the receiver. There is no help underneath.
there was another great one to get us out of our own red zone in the 1st half
I think every back shoulder fade we threw, before it even left JJ's hand one of the coaches on Film Room said something along the lines of "well that's gonna be a catch." Feels real good.
Point 7.. I assumed FSU had made some adjustments to stop the screens. If they didnt, it's really puzzling that we would just abandon it altogether
They didn't. I have no idea why they abandoned those looks.
I'm glad you addressed this as I can't understand why they went away from the WR screens either and assumed it was a defensive adjustment. Honestly it felt like the offense went away from several things that worked early on and I'm not sure why.
VT fans clamoring for more WR screens.
What a time to be alive.
That was before this is now/s
I realize the irony. Strategically I've always been a proponent of screens to slow down aggressive defenders. The problem during the O'Cainspring era was that our screens were mindbogglingly slow to develop. Defenders could take false steps and still recover to make the play for no gain or a loss. Actually my biggest gripe was with the RB screens. Most of the time I was left hoping for the ball to fall harmlessly to the turf instead of resulting in a big loss or turnover. I still can't fathom that we actually practiced those plays in practice, much less that they were ever properly executed or worked even against the scout team.
Kumah Offensive pas interference was nonsense both guys were battling for position guy just look like he lost his footing.
Also Hazelton on another fade could have had the touchdown just needed more awareness of the sideline
Can anybody provide a link to the coaches film room video from last night. I got to it earlier today and was really digging it, but now I can't find it...
It is linked in the comments of the "24-3" story on the Home page.
Yeah, that's alot to try and look through. Here's the link:
http://www.espn.com/watch/player?id=3431918
I mentioned this in the live game thread, so I'm sure not many people caught it, and it is nothing if not essential information regarding one of our emerging receivers: Kumah is Japanese for bear
That is cool... but at first I read "beer" which is cooler.
In Soviet Russia, Kumah mauls you
If you're a Tekken fan, this is especially entertaining.
Guess we know Eric's patronus.
As always great insight. I thought there was a noticeable difference with our outside blocking at the point of attack as well as downfield. It will be interesting to see if we stay vanilla with these looks over the next couple of weeks.
French, I'm sure you'll have more in your film review, but what's your thoughts on Hoyt's debut?
Mega Jesus is not amused by your using his secret identity on the internet.
Also, apparently he watched the cavman bit cause he's got Forrest Whitaker eye.
by the way, I'd like to highlight, once again, his transition from level 17 dungeon master as a recruit to Mega Jesus as a r-soph:
The coaches film room version was exactly what I needed today. Yesterday in Doak was pure reaction and emotion and I wanted to see how we actually looked. Some things to clean up, but it seems like the groundwork is there for this to be a really surprising squad. I really wish more games got this camera set up at least, even if they don't have the coaches doing the breakdowns.
The coaches locker room version was money.
Mack Brown was surprisingly good as a moderator.
I don't trust people whose eyes are as close together as Hugh Freeze.
I only watched the coaches room (well with sound, 2nd tv had sky cam).
I thought Mack Brown did a great job of hosting too. He always asked for explanations to terminology so that stupid people oke me could understand.
One thing I really like I that it really appears they have watched some film in prep and they dont say stupid things like "Josh Jackson is a dynamic runner. You have to be prepare for him to pull it down and run with it."
The one thing Mack Brown kept saying that bugged me is that we have a young offensive line. He knew we had a freshman left tackle and took that to mean the entire line is young.
I agree Mack Brown was far better suited in this role than in a booth as well. If he has to talk to much it's agonizing, but he did a solid job of facilitating the discussion. I did notice a few errors that irked me slightly (after Hazelton's TD they talked about how grad transfers changed everything when he isn't a grad transfer; one of the coaches started calling him Hazelwood) but as a whole I thought it provided some interesting insight.
I didnt say Hugh Freeze wasnt an idiot, he is. Most of these guys are used to knowing the number of a player not the name so while it was annoying, it only pushed me off enough to correct him like he could hear me through the TV.
The grad transfer thing didnt really bother me because it had zero impact on what they were talking about.
It's 100x better than when every announcer last year called Jackson a dynamic dual threat. He had one good run through a hole that a bus could go through. He can do some read option, but dynamic? If I am a DC I am going to dare him to run out of the pocket. I think JC Coleman said it "his feet are like cinder blocks". You dont hear how Trace McShitty at PSU is a dynamic runner, but he had like 100 more rushing yards than Jackson.
I hate announcers they suck at there job.
French, one play id like you to break down. I was at the game so it was hard to tell. late in the 3rd or early 4th? it was I believe a 3rd and LONGGGG from around mid field. deuces on the left of Jackson, TE Cunningham also aligned on the left fake zone read, Cunningham wheels up the sideline, kumah runs a go, and not sure who the other WR is but he runs a dig across the field I think. it looked to be like kumah was WIDE OPEN for a TD down the field but the play was drawn up for Cunningham and they anticipated him being open that's where Jackson went with the ball and it was broken up by the safety who made a great play on the ball because it still almost got to Cunningham for the score. I feel like that was a play that they had been setting up for a while but I have no evidence of that, just wondering if you thought the same thing. if the play design was something that they were holding on to in their pocket and waiting for the right time to use and they thought that was it?
I will try to track it down. If you can narrow down the time, that will help. I arrive in Lansing around 7pm so I will take a look then.
The stat guys may have it wrong. I can't find a single Jackson incomplete pass in the second half on the Hokiesports.com play by play listing in the box score. If that is accurate, that is pretty remarkable.
There was definitely a play where Jackson almost threw a pick late in the 3rd or 4th to the near sideline about 15 yards downfield, I think that is the play he is talking about.
I thought so too. I need to track it down.
One other mistake (for folks watching the coaches room film.) They credit Tre Turner's catch on a 3rd and long with VT backed way up to Hazelton. That was a heck of a first college catch for Turner.
You sure it wasn't Harrelton?
I checked the ESPN play-by-play, and I also do not see anything matching that description in the second half. I do recall a near-interception (I don't remember who was targeted) along the sideline in the first half.
Per the play-by-play, just before half time (3:37 in the 2nd) Jackson threw an incomplete pass to Cunningham on a 3rd and 10. Could this be it?
I do remember that one. That was a big timing issue. Cunningham was open early. Jackson locked on but was a little late. It was the right read if FSU was in man, but they were in quarters looking at the QB. Kumah broke open because they saw Jackson staring down Cunningham and the corner peeled off (just like Farley did on his last INT.) Otherwise the corner would have kept retreating on Kumah.
Yup. I rewatched the first half on Wednesday. They talked about Jackson staring down Cunningham and the FSU defender peeling off while watching Jackson's eyes. If he had made the pick, it would have been a footrace to the end zone.
http://www.espn.com/college-football/player/splits/_/id/4037603/josh-jac...
Jackson was 7-7 in the second half.
That's incorrect.
edit: I was incorrect here, the play that several others and I thought happened in the 2nd half occurred with 3:41 left in the 2nd
halfquarter. Made this typo twice somehow.http://www.espn.com/college-football/playbyplay?gameId=401013096
Dude, I don't know what to tell you, he didn't throw an incompletion in the second half. Your eye test is once again not accurate.
In this case I was wrong, however I was absolutely not wrong about Alabama last year (and neither was Bill Connelly's S&P+ last season if you want something else other than my eye test.)
Your remaining bitterness towards me is noticeable. It's time to move on.
You replied to me, pal. But thanks for admitting you were wrong.
You referenced an argument from 8 months ago.... and half the time you enter threads I'm in half my comments catch a downvote, so you tell me.
edit: guess you answered it exactly how I expected.
https://www.ncaa.com/game/football/fbs/2018/09/03/virginia-tech-florida-...
There's also this if you wanna claim ESPN is fake news.
At halftime he was 9-19. I remember that much. They really didn't talk about how he finished, but box says 16-26, which adds up to 7-7 second half.
The play we were all thinking of where Jackson attempts to throw to Cunningham down the sideline and it is almost intercepted, occurred at 3:41 left in the 2nd quarter.
Do you mean 2nd quarter? Because we run the ball and fumble when there's 3:56 left in the 2nd half and run the clock down past 3:41.
twas a typo. I went back and 5sec skipped through the 2nd half of that full game posted on youtube and as soon as I saw which way our offense was going in the 4th quarter I knew it had to be the 2nd quarter so I found it there.
defenders running to places and not looking for the ball sounds a lot like side effect of learning a new defense
Savoy was one of our best weapons from last season and he seemed to be grossly underutilized. Was this gameplanning by the coaching staff assuming he would receive the lion's share of the double coverage or was he just not getting open/not being targeted?
This is not a shot at Savoy as he was an important factor last year like you said but Grimsley is the better player. Savoy will play a role but it won't be as prominent as last season IMO.
This. Savoy played very well early on as a true freshman but he also had some issues with completing catches and ball security. Obviously the tragedy of losing his brother may have had a significant effect on him as well. At the end of the year other receivers finally started to emerge (Grimsley, Patterson, Kumah). By all accounts those guys continued to progress and earned their place on the depth chart.
Him fumbling will also put him in the dog hose with Fuente .
And catching passes and going backwards instead of forward to get the first down.
On the note of going north south I was impressed with McClease He hit the hole fast
To further your point, even though we struggled to run in the 2nd half, there were a few 4-6 yard runs that were a shoestring tackle or last man tackle from being those big explosive runs we've been missing. I hope we start to hit those against less talented lb groups over the next few weeks.
....and 4-6 yard runs when the opponent knows you are running is approximately 3-5 yards better than the last few years.
I watched this broadcast last night and really enjoyed it. I learned a lot as well. I'd love to see some of these all22 looks in French's video analysis, but I doubt that's going to be consistently possible.
One thing I took away from this, is that JJ played a lot better than a lot of people are giving him credit for. There were several throws that were right on the money. The 4 fades he threw were well thrown (although one was caught OOB and the other was the Kumah OPI). There were a couple of slants that were zipped in as well.