Looks like Taggart believes VT faked injuries.
http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/24586082/florida-state-c...
If that's the entire reason they aren't really contenders anyway.
[Mod Edit: Fix broken link.]
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link is borken?
Leg for finding my mistake. Should be fixed.
Smart move my Willie. Get the fan base focused on something other than an inept offensive performance. It's a lethally simple strategy.
ISWYDT
All of the sudden, I dislike this guy almost as much as Nardouchey. He gave us no credit during his post-game presser either. You got out-coached and out-played. You lost. Get over it and be lucky it wasn't 38-3 or worse.
This coming from a guy who has an overall losing record as head coach. Just saying...
Him and Narduzzi can take a salt bath together.
Shouldn't they take a bath in distilled water in order to have maximum absorption of their excessive saltiness?
A salt water bath would just exacerbate the issue!
In their case, I think thermal distillation may be the best method.
Any bath they take is going to be pretty salty.
I guess you're going for reverse osmosis...
Yep. Pretty risky coaching pick. Outside of that 10-2 South Florida season, he really has done nothing long term. One year at Oregon at 7-5 and FSU thinks he's the future?
Yeah I feel like FSU could have gotten a coach with a winning record at the very least. Like don't get me wrong Taggart inherited a couple dumpster fires at WKU and USF and managed to turn them around but those are much easier schedules to get a turn around in than playing in a P5.
Also seems to have a lot of assistant coach turnover.
I'd actually say this is worse than Narduzzi whining about not getting his phantom PI's called. Based on Bitter's tweet posted below, Taggert should have informed himself and concerned himself with player safety before opening his mouth.
I agree. It's crazy how quickly I went from being completely indifferent to Willie Taggart to actually hating him. I was a little annoyed with all the unjustified hype surrounding him, but I figured that's not his fault. But now he's skyrocketed into the top 3 of my hate rankings.
I swear so many yall just dont ever read the quotes lol. He was asked a leading question and said "It happened too often to not think about it."
Bruh....media is there to rile up fans. That is all this is right now in these threads. One sentence is all it took to make him worse than Narduzzi whining?
Fake news about fake injuries FTW!
Yeah, it's worse. It was a few days later so he had time to compose himself and develop a more responsible answer than this in the event of such a question. He's been at this long enough to know better. And again, you're talking about player safety.
He just said that with the amount of times it happened, it basically crossed his mind. Shit, i still think its possible that they were instructed to do so if they felt any sort of reason for it.
Looking at all the comments in this thread, it appears that people think that he just randonly brought it up as the reason they lost. That wasnt the case at all. Id like to see some better spurced reactions from people. But i think across the board of fandom that is a lot to ask for.
The media set him up, but he fell for it.
This is why I don't do interviews.
Exactly. TKP is no different from any of them. Case in point, look at the title of this thread lol. Willie never actually said that. And yet, the title was phrased in a way to suggest to readers that it is a quote. And just from the comments, it is clear that most fell for that suggestive tool.
Did Willie fall for it? Yes, especially since the article neglects to even provide the question asked! We only get a single sentence in response to an unsourced Question and the rest of the article just puts words in his mouth. Unfortunatley this is the frustrating world kf journalism we live in.
I understand your point and agree that, No Willie did not say "I think Virginia Tech faked injuries to stop my juggernaut of an offense and, if they hadn't, we would have won handily."
But, like it or not, Perception becomes reality. By even acknowledging that he thinks VT may have faked injuries, he is creates the perception that we needed to manufacture some sort of "unfair advantage" in order to defeat them. This guy has been coaching for years and this isn't even his first stop at at P5 school, he knows "trap questions," and has certainly been asked them many times before. The correct way to deal with a question like this is to ignore or sidestep it completely; the incorrect way is to do what he did. The incorrect way gets you lit up on PTI and made to look even more foolish than you did on the field. This guy doesn't get a pass from me. If he truly didn't know better than to stay away from this one, FSU fans should be even more concerned about his competence.
Furthermore, its not like Taggart is the first guy ever to run a Hurry-up offense. If it wasn't already pointedly obvious to the naked eye, WT isn't an offensive mastermind. RichRod was doing it in the late 90's and Chip Kelly had this same stuff happen to him at Oregon consistently. If you run a Hurry-up and don't expect opposing defenses to make efforts to slow you down or have any plan to deal with it other than yap about it to the media 48 hours later, then you should just keep your ******* mouth shut.
Yep. Taggart was baited into it and he fell face first into the muck. Now he's a national punchline because he couldn't restrain himself to the typical coachspeak 'no comment'. And it doesn't help that he started out August workouts this year with a tweet of "No Excuses, #DoSomething".
And in aiding your point, here is an excerpt from the acc coaches transcript (https://asaptext.com/orgs/theacc/191/):
So no matter the verbal context, it's a poor response from Taggart. He does go on to say that they did not execute. However, Taggart should have passed on that loaded question and just say "player safety comes first and we didn't execute and put the points on the board."
He couldn't pass on the loaded question because he practically inferred it with his previous reply. He's basically advocating that football should pass a rule that doesn't allow for an player to be subbed out if the offense decides to go up-tempo, which is insane in this current climate given what happened at Maryland. Any reporter worth a damn should have followed up with a question about legitimate player safety, but of course they wouldn't because it didn't fit the narrative they were trying to set.
This should have been posted. Thank you for providing it. My main gripe is just seeing so many people react to something that they clearly havent investigated.
This makes Taggart seem worse than I originally thought. The questions weren't leading, and he had 3 different opportunities to give a no-comment answer. Instead, he took the bait and doubled down.
Uh, no, the first was is certainly a leading question. It definitely isn't direct, open-ended, or multiple.
The others are more direct, but the second question and comment are inconsequential and irrelevant.
The last answer simply shows that Willie thinks its hard not to believe it was intentional based on the frequency and discrepancy of injuries. He never explicitly states "VT players faked injuries" like the title implies.
Does he have to explicitly state something? I mean, his responses imply that he thought the injuries were faked. He didn't go full Narduzzi and say "They were faking injuries all over the place." But by having the answer be, "I guess that's just part of the game now," he's still saying "they faked injuries, but I guess it's just part of the game now".
I'm fine with him thinking they were fake. Faking injuries is conserved across all sports. It's a tactic that pretty much can't be punished and can really be beneficial. I don't expect football to be exempt and I don't expect VT to be exempt.
But like you just said, the context is important though. He's not out here making excuses for the loss like many are implying and he isn't out here pushing this agenda that VT was faking injuries.
Honestly, he could have "coach spoke" the shit out of those, but he didn't and I respect that. Still dumb though.
I understand your point but the title stands. It is neither false nor misleading.
No. It is misleading.
It implies that Willie said that. He did not.
It is misleading because people dont go in a read articles for thenselves.
But it doesn't say Willie said it. It's presented as a summary not as a quotation and does not read:
So if people read articles for themselves, it wouldn't be misleading? How does that work?
The Title of this post reads like a typical news headline where paraphrasing is used all the time. Are typical news articles misleading because people don't read for themselves?
The act of misleading requires intent. Intent precedes an action such as writing a post. People not reading for themselves occurs after such post. So how does something that occurs after said post result in intent to mislead which happens before said post?'
With respect to intent and paraphrasing, I as well as many others interpreted his comments this way and I paraphrased them pretty much the way most people understood them.
But don't take my word for it. Here's a screenshot from Google:
As dragone posted previously with my comments interspersed...
WILLIE TAGGART: Well, it is what it is. I guess it's part of football now. That's all I can say.
There are range of responses that do not indicate he believes this happened including: "Thanks for asking, however, I will not address this."
WILLIE TAGGART: I'm sure we will one day. Kind of like everything else, it comes when it start happening. They'll come up with something. Until they do, I don't see why anybody wouldn't do it.
Again. There is no reason to be sure there will be rule changes if he is not stating this occurred. Also, this question is never asked if he responded as stated above. With chance #2 he can flatly say, "I believe player safety is important and I'm not going to weigh in on rules that could compromise that". But instead he is sure there will be a rule to punish a player that may or may not be injured.
WILLIE TAGGART: I mean, it is what it is. It happened too often, so it's hard not to. It happened too often.
And if his two previous chances weren't enough at this point he could eat his cake and have it to by simply saying, "No."
But he didn't say no.
I think the thing that really strikes me as odd is that Willie Taggart is not the victim here. The people that were being maligned were the LEGITIMATELY injured players and the VT coaching staff for allegedly participating in this alleged chicanery. Willie Taggart is just a guy that got out-coached; and when someone handed him a rope he hung himself with it. If we must consider him a victim (which clearly we must) then he's a victim of his own ego.
Anyway, if you're nitpicking I guess that's all good. Nitpick away, but don't accuse me of misleading people when there is an abundance of evidence that Taggart believes these injuries were faked.
Leg for the use of "chicanery".
And one for you as well kind sir.
I think you're missing the man's point. He's absolutely correct, and the down votes are completely out of place. (I think he was making a general point, not a personal one.) In the media, journalists are often not even the ones to create the tainted headline. It only takes a few words to make a completely objective article into an agenda-supporting one, or one that just pushes everyone's buttons.
Yes, you did what a lot of news organizations do. They put in an attention-grabbing headline, and then, the reader goes in with a tainted initial perspective reading the article. Four paragraphs in, non-agenda supporting facts might be there. Doesn't matter, because people are down making a reactive comment at that point.
Your Google example actually proves the point. Those headlines were designed to provoke a response, not to accurately portray an event. The emotional button has already been pushed before you click on the article. In fact, the emotional button determines which one you click, and they know this.
Then, a good bit of the reactionary commentary/opinions are driven by those headlines. It's all a bit tainted.
Now it may well be that whatever was in your 4th+ paragraph completely puts things in perspective. I don't know, because, like everyone else, I didn't read that far. /s
So... The bottom line is nobody reads anything right? A ho-hum title: No one read the article. A provocative title: No one reads the article.
I think the problem isn't the title. It's nobody reads anything anymore.
What is an "appropriate title"?
Taggart gets fooled into blaming loss on Hokies' fake injuries?
Taggart agrees with reporters that Hokies faked injuries?
Taggart hints that Hokies faked injuries?
Taggart contemplates possibility that Hokies faked injuries?
None of these are good. There is no title that makes Willie Taggart sound reasonable.
Maybe this one:
Hokes refuse to deny faking injuries?
Would that satisfy your and Koastal's desire for accuracy?
I have zero qualms with your title, selhini. The very title of the ESPN article you're referring to in the first place is "Taggart: Hokies faked injury to slow FSU down". In no way is this "misleading" in the context of you creating a discussion piece to further discuss this matter.
We're making a general point about hyperbolic headlines.
One organization comes up with an exaggerated headline, and then a good bit of the media uses that one to justify their own.
That's all I'm saying.
As far as people reading, yes, I think it's pretty clear that a good number of people read headlines and form their opinion mostly based on those, particularly if they feed the prejudices they already have.
I don't so much have an opinion on your headline as I agree with Koastal that this is the way the media circus runs. Your headline just reflected those of the general media, which is appropriate for a sports discussion forum.
I understand what you are trying to do but I don't think the title is hyperbolic.
I also respect what you are doing because it generates discussion (which is the point my posts. I don't consider my posts to be valuable unless people discuss).
My take on a hyperbolic title would be, "Taggart demands action against fake injuries".
Thank you for making my clunky arguments seem eloquent lol.
Unfortunately your examples are in fact examples of misleading titles. It runs rampant in today's media.
Format of "Person of interest" : "information" implies a quote.
Just look at the comments in this thread.
I underatand what you are saying, unfortunately a lot of what you say is from a person that clearly does his due diligence when analyzing something.
That isnt the case for most people.
Misleading =\= false. This is where we are disconnected.
I find it very hard to say that the title is misleading. The words "faked" did not ever come out of Taggart's mouth, but it was CLEARLY what he was implying. He commented on rule changes, then went on to discuss how many times it happened. The only logical conclusion to come to from a Head Coach making these sort of statements is that VT faked injuries in a deliberate, predetermined method to try to gain an advantage. I don't think there is any other way to reasonably interpret this.
The only real question to me is what was his intent? Did WT let these comments out to try to help deflect the attention from the woeful performance of his offense....or is he simply too inept to weave his way out of obviously leading questions that are going to end up making him look foolish?
Sadly (for FSU fans) I am not really sure which is more true, although I would suspect the former, as Taggart is known as a shrewd and effective recruiter and I find it hard to believe that he doesn't know how to turn a phrase and how much value there is in what he says. Either way, it looks bad on WT, but I have a hard time buying that this was purely unintentional.
I think that Willie Taggart really believes that when his offense finally started clicking we threw a wrench in the works by faking injuries to slow him down. I don't think he's saying this to deflect blame because I don't think he believes there is any blame to deflect. In his mind his system is supposed to work and the only thing that could possibly get in the way of his "lethal simplicity" is wrongdoing. I don't even think he can acknowledge the quality of VT's defense. To some extent this quality can help coaches get through bad situations by having not only themselves but the staff and players buy into their vision and view of the world. It's a type of talent and works well in turnaround situations. Like everything in life there are positives and negatives and that kind of passionate view shaping can also look arrogant or obtuse.
So basically PJ saying "if every play works the way that it's designed, no one can stop us". They had 9 chunk plays where they would want to go up tempo. In the 6 where there wasn't a supposed "fake injury", 1 had a subsequent next play that gained more than 2 yds and then they fell apart. Too bad the actual performance doesn't support his opinion.
I was going to say...this doesn't paint a better picture. If anything, he had 3 times he could have said no, or not approached it, and essentially said they faked injuries without saying the words "I think they faked injuries."
You're right. And he would have been better served to evade the question altogether.
Every analysis I heard of this made him look as if he were trying to blame his team's failure on something other than not-performing. It was some pretty weak sauce.
Well, if that's the case, that's certainly conjecture and hyperbolic. I don't think it's either of those to state that he implied the Hokies faked injuries.
How would you even enforce that?
The only thing you can really do is make the player sit out that set of downs.
Still, the defending team gets to do their substitution.
If they do this to the D's then any O player who is injured or raises his hand to be subbed, needs to sit out the set of downs/possession too. I add the raises his hand to be subbed because the O controls substitutions. If they can sub for fatigue without a cost and the D can't, without penalty, then that's a huge advantage to the O.
I agree. It would have to apply to both O and D.
And you've touched on the strategy part. The real value of the up tempo is to stop the D from being able to make substitutions, short of injury. You see the defense starting to look tired, you speed up the tempo. It's a nice tool to have, but not really in the interest of student athlete safety when the temperature and humidity are high.
I totally understand and agree that percapfion is reality. However, perception can be carefully crafted by investigating the story or it can be bluntly forced through suggestive tools and investigstive neglect.
My main point in all of this isnt tk say that Willie is right or to defend him. Its to implore people not just read a title, formulate opinions based on unsourced facts, and then go straight to the comments to discuss something that in reality didnt really happen.
Is it a losing battle? Maybe, but i refuse to accept that things cant change.
Thank you for your perspective, we as fans should be looking at it from all sides and avoiding homerism. I just feel that if there ever was a time for coachspeak (and believe me, I find it's used way too much), then this would be that time. You're inevitably going to mire yourself in controversy if you suggest something short of players' best interest.
You're absolutely right.
But he's definitely getting some blowback for it. He tried to reach out for the lifeline, but the fact is that you can't blame a 24-3 loss on some players not springing up quickly enough after an injury (real or imagined).
It wasn't a good look for him, and highlighted just how poorly FSU executed during that game.
Excuses
We didn't fake gettin into the backfield all night and certainly didn't fake two picks.
Yeah, but that 3rd one and those two fumbles we forced and recovered weren't real.
100% humidity in the Florida heat... Seems like a great time to openly accuse players of faking injuries only months after a very public death at Maryland after a player attempted to continue practicing through exhaustion.
He knows he doesn't have much time to start winning in Tallahassee.
He knows he doesn't have much time to
start winningcontinue whining in Tallahassee.FTFY
Good one! Leg for you!
Eff that guy. Last time we'll see him on the field. No way he lasts 6 years at FSU and they sure as hell ain't gonna see us at the ACCCG before then.
We'll see him next year when he's the offensive coordinator at Furman.
Damn, son!
This calls for Supa Hot:
via GIPHY
This is somehow only the third or fouth most savage roast I've heard from you in the last thirty days.
When your buddy wears cowboy boots and cowboy hat to his wedding, it leaves the door WIDE open.
Re-watched it last night, there were only two plays were you could reasonably think there was a faked injury. One of them featured a player who was kind of limping, then sat out for the next two series. The other one came after a defensive end sprinted 90 yards, and resulted in one of our best players of the night out for a crucial series.
Dude needs to get over it.
Thanks for posting. This is all the evidence I need that the injuries were real. The annoying thing about soccer flopping is when the player pretends his leg's been amputated, then gets up and runs full speed for the next five minutes. If Burke and Hill needed time to recover, they were obviously hurting.
And don't get me started on Walker and
Farley(?)Floyd [edit: thanks!] butting heads. As others have posted, I was relieved they weren't in the concussion protocol the rest of the game.(Reggie Floyd)
Meanwhile Fuente calls out his shit. Says multiple players with IV's as halftime.
But he didn't outright deny it. Maybe that was "coach speak" but "No" would have been better. Having said that, if the Noles want to be Champs at anything they need to be able to execute regardless.
I see nothing wrong with it. As long as its a penalty to have too many men on the field, I'd tell players that rather than limp off, just sit down.
This gets so overlooked. It's not a fake injury be real injury dichotomy. There is nothing wrong with telling your players, "If you need to come out because you don't feel 100% for the next snap, sit down." Especially in the heat and humidity of central Florida in early September.
I completely agree with this. When I read his quote I was upset that he didn't say "No" anywhere in his statement. It's probably not worth commenting on anymore but I wish in the moment he gave a better answer.
I think he gave a good answer. He is 5-0 against Taggart and just beat the hell out of him. Something tells me he was expecting Slick Willie to make excuses. But it's not worth commenting on. Fuente is above this bullshit. Besides, nobody on our side needs to make excuses or justify anything. We won.
-Bud Foster, probably
Damn, can only imagine if we scored points in the 2nd or 3rd quarters, what type of attitude he'd have. Could have easily been 34-3 or 42-10. Noles were out played.
More classless BS from FSU.
Hey, who you gonna blame for the non-challenge on the obvious TD, Willie?
I only have one GIF response to Taggart if that is his lame excuse instead of PULLING UP YOUR BIG BOY PANTS AND OWNING that your offense did not execute:
We'd be pissed too if the shoe was on the other foot. It shows some pretty weak leadership for Taggert to use it as a defense though.
FSU had chance after chance to get back into that game when we couldn't step on their throat. At the end of the day, that is what FSU fans will remember too. This story will blow over by the time games kick Saturday morning. The only way it becomes an issue is if we see it happen again.
We would be pissed if one of their injured players sat on the field, so he could be attended to?
FSU fans weren't booing because they thought our guys were injured and needed attending to, they were booing becasue they thought it was just the opposite.
If we felt FSU was going down hurt just to slow our momentum, this site would have as much salt as I'm sure the FSU sites are showing right now. That doesn't make it right to boo players that are down but if you think our fanbase wouldn't be reacting in a very similar way if the roles were reversed, I think you would be incorrect.
I just am pointing out that while it's stupid for the head coach to be using it as any kind of excuse, it's not a shock to be hearing it from the other fans and while appearing to be wrong, we should be careful about how outraged we get over fans of other teams behaving like...well...fans because that shoe could be on the other foot in the blink of an eye.
Yeah, I knew what you were getting at, but there's a major flaw in the supposition, that our players were going down hurt just to slow their momentum. It's been soundly refuted with video evidence, by multiple people.
I hear you and agree, but an unfortunate side-effect of fandom is choosing to ignore facts presented in front of you that do not line up with what you want to see/hear.
There are those on FSU's side who would agree with you and others who wouldn't, just as there would be with us if the rolls were reversed.
I only saw one play that I believe was "faking" a injury. Burk went down after running a few steps and then looking to the sidelines. It seemed as if he was instructed to go down. Just saying.....I don't believe that one play affected the outcome at all.....as someone already stated, Taggart is deflecting....
That one play was proven to be an injury, hours ago (like this morning), including video evidence that he was injured by an illegal block (hi/low) 2 plays prior. Andy Bitter even posted a tweet with video evidence.
For the sake of accuracy he was injured by a low block on an earlier drive in the 2nd quarter. On the plays immediately prior to him going down he showed pretty clear signs of suffering from an injury though.
^^^ you are correct sir. I'll leave my error in place, so people don't wonder what I wrote.
How is it deflecting when he was asked a direct question about the subject? Deflecting would be if he randomly went on about it when asked about why he lost.
And FSU faked having a P5 offense.
Going fast on offense, which prevents the defense from making subs, is a level of gamesmanship within the rules of the game. If a defensive player is hobbled and needs to be subbed, he literally cannot exit the game in a hurry up no huddle scenario unless he goes down and draws an injury timeout. So even though Burke stayed on for a few plays after potentially getting hurt, it was as good an opportunity as any for us to have him go down and be subbed after their big play. The timing may have been a bit of gamesmanship on our part as well, but we needed to sub a cramping/hobbled player and what better time than after a big play. Just using the rules of injury substitutions to our advantage the same way offenses use the HUNH to keep the defense from substituting.
And it would have been harder for him to hustle down field to line up after that play if he was injured at all.
True. I can understand both answering out right "No" and answering how Fuente answered. With all the word parsing these days I could see were Fuente wanted to make a non-absolute statement given there was some gray area. The gray area being was Burke so hurt he couldn't get off the field himself? Probably not. BUT. The flip side is that he risked further injury by staying in and we risk having only 10 or 12 men on the field if he tries to sub out and FSU snaps the ball.
Francois was happy that we slowed down the play (allegedly). Saved him at least 3-4 hits
#sauces or #marinades ?
Didn't we end the game with timeouts in our pocket anyway?
WILLIE WILLIE WILLIE.... tsk... tsk....
Willie Taggart sure seems crabby.
I wonder if that's Publix knowledge?
I see what you did there, and I like it
Larry Fedora has no problems with that. There's nothing behind this concussion thing anyways.
I blew a fuse when I heard the crowd booing our players after this play - a classless short-sighted moment for their fans
"Holy Scoreboard, Twatman!"
"Tatman. How many times to I have to tell you it's Tatman!"
Ace and Gary, is that you??
great call!
Nice post, friend of friends
From Tomahawk Nation. At least one of their fans gets it.
Can anyone else confirm if Burke really didn't return?
I saw hiim in for one or two plays of the next FSU possession but he was not in at all during the 2nd half based on what I've watched.
I wouldn't put too much stock in that. The responses are exactly what you'd expect.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure the booing was completely indicative of the small minded feeble nature of the average Nolie
Hahaha, so their lack of eagle eyes meant they couldn't see the injuries happen on the field that they're watching, but they could see our coaches signal for players to go down?
Okay.
Ricky Walker and Floyd were right where the ball was IIRC- where were they looking if not there?
Maybe something shiny distracted them.
The most disappointing part of Monday night was that the cameras didn't find these 2 at the end of the game. Maybe they were embarrassed and left early.
Thing this was them before getting swept up around midnight.
I don't feel so good, Mr Taggart
If they had, you would have been able to take a good look at their face and see that their smiles looked out of place. And if you had looked closer, it'd have been easy to trace the tracks of their tears.
Does TKP have, like, an honorary opponent badge or something? Invite that person to this board with a little icon indicating they are not one of us, but they are legit good peoples.
I'm sorry, I can't hear your whining over the echoing sound of your top recruits getting leveled on 3rd down to bring up yet another punt.
...and didn't his punter fake a hit/injury that Herbie called him out on?
Taggart would know. He faked coaching.
Its been said, but:
Coaching degree from UNC?
French: 1
Taggart: 0
You mean:
Fuente 5 (1 time as QBs, 3 times at memphis, 1 time at VT)
Taggart 0
This is how I picture it going down next time they meet.
I pretty much mean Taggart: 0
What did the five fingers say to the face?
This seems like a lethally simplistic view on the matter
This is my favorite dig yet, and there's some good ones in here!
He must suffer from microwillie syndrome
Maybe he has defensive coordinator envy.
Saying excuses are like assholes seems a little redundant in this case.
Hurricanes / Fake injuries meh....
So let's take the 3 points they actually scored, and how many additional touchdowns would they like us to add to the total? Just enough to win, or do you want really blow VT out? Whatcha thinking coach? Remember, this is fantasy land, so don't hold back.
Also, you are the effing head coach. You want your players living off excuses about a loss rather than owning it and moving on? Gonna be a loooong season down there.
I see FSU and UNC use the same consultant - blame it on something else other than yourselves.
And yes, go ahead and distract at the real problem at hand.
Just for the sake of clarity, I went back and kept a note of every injury timeout VT had in the first half. I didn't have to watch the 2nd half again because FSU only managed a single first down. Everyone screaming and crying about fake injuries is reaching and it is especially bad when you go back and pay attention to each one.
2nd quarter 12:51- Ricky Walker on 3rd and long. Best player and legit injury
2nd quarter 9:30- Trevon Hill- knee injury- Legit
2nd quarter 8:25- Burke- ankle- after negative running play
2nd quarter 3:19- Burke limps back to LOS
3:02- Burke falls down after long pass
2nd quarter 1:59- Walker & Floyd helmet to helmet
Wondering if we could somehow arrange for the FSU team bus to be struck by lightning when they come to Blacksburg in 2023?
No, because then they would escape without an L after they cancel the game. I'd rather just punish them on the field.
If they're as similar to UNC as I think, the game wouldn't even go in the books if it rains that night.
Wait it did rain Saturday in the continental Unites States, ah that's why UNC lost.
"We don't play well when you have to recruit legally and play outside." -Larry Fedora, probably
Don't they have a game in like 3 days? He should try to focus on scoring a touchdown this season
Willie just made the short list of ACC douche bag coaches that will never be forgiven for their extreme douche baggery.
Willie
Narduzzi
Larry Fedora
Fuck Willie Taggart?
I suppose you could say it that way.
LOL... Taggart's faux salt will throw the fanbase off his scent for a minute...
Who cares if VT was flopping (spoiler, I think some were)... it's part of the game... Just like soccer...
"Taggert accused of faking coaching knowledge in order to get FSU job"
Please keep crying Willie-your tears are delicious
Cant fake 2 interceptions by a true freshmen from your "star" QB ESPN wouldn't shut up about.
AB is going all in using film to show the injuries really happened.
"But the 8 previous injuries were crying wolf..."
I liked the FSU fan who said we went down after every big play. "Can't cry wolf 8x and get the benefit of the doubt"
For fuck's sake. Y'all had 3 big plays. You wouldn't have had 8 big plays if it went into 4OT.
Small William is such a ding dong
Yea, I just don't think Taggart has what it takes to be a head coach at an elite level. It starts up top, and making excuses will lead to more and more excuses. Soon, you're just a victim and it's everyone else out to get you. Idk, but wouldn't be surprised at another 6 to 8 win season for FSU.
Based on his W/L record, he doesn't have what it takes to coach at the G5 level either.
Since people get upset about these things, I'll make it clear that I down voted you on this post. Everybody is fully aware of why we have two of these threads and hundreds of comments discussing "fake injuries." As I said in another thread
This is exactly what I was referring to. At this point I've lost my patience with VT fans perpetuating this idea and disparaging a player because of willful ignorance.
EDIT: I rescinded my down vote based on the conversation but I still hate that this narrative has been perpetuated by national media when Burke is actually injured.
I was just showing how we are being perceived. No commentary. Thanks for explaining your down vote, classy move.
If I violated community guidelines I will gladly remove the post
Maybe I've immersed myself too far into this issue but your post came across as a retweet (essentially passive support of the message). At this point I'm frustrated to see the flak Burke is getting for this when the fake injury myth has been busted. i don't expect Seminole fans to care about the truth but it would be nice if our own fans didn't perpetuate the idea on VT fan sites.
In my opinion this tweet is much more appropriate at this point.
How about we don't care what inattentive knuckleheads post and how about not posting garbage to support a complete falsehood on a VT fan site?
Some inside info is saying mcl sprain
I mean he was wearing a whistle DURING the game. Why didn't he just blow it and cry foul?
...which is hilariously illegal (just wearing it is). Can you imagine how many flags they would've thrown on him if he had used it
Hahaha I'm so glad you posted this. If there isn't a more clear indication that Taggart has no clue what the flying fuck he's doing, I don't know what it would be. Maybe he takes "the big whistle" moniker a little too seriously.
I think Kirk Herbstreit and Chris Fowler owe our players an apology. I like them both, especially Fowler, after what he wrote about us after 4/16 and the speech he gave to the crowd at Gameday. But I think accusing college athletes of faking injuries is unprofessional.
Herbie and Fowler are both normally pretty unbiased (in my opinion - I'm sure some will disagree about Kirk) but they were clearly pro-FSU Monday night. Then they got caught up in the moment when the FSU fans abandoned any class they had left and started booing our guys for being hurt. These two guys, who are rightfully considered the best of the best in their industry, lowered themselves to speculating the legitimacy of injuries like fans during a live broadcast.
I think they're just as bad as Taggart in this.
I don't know about "unbiased". I think they're typically biased towards the perennial football powers. It's more of a media thing in general: supporting the status quo.
Found a similar instance where Dave Doreen accused FSU of faking injuries in 2014. These comments are straight GOLD!
https://247sports.com/college/florida-state/Board/36/Contents/NC-States-Dave-Doeren-accuses-FSU-of-fake-injuries-31590040
---Little bitches gonna act like little bitches. Screw Doeren, NC State fans for booing, and NIU.
---That's ok coach, you were faking defensive ability. Also, faking heart, guts, etc.
Blows a 24-7 lead........blames the refs and our " faking" injuries to slow tempo.
This guy should have no problem gaining the respect of his peers in coaching........
well this is awkward....
Kornheiser and Wilbon just referred to this on Pardon the Interruption (for those of you too smart to watch ESPN)
K: Who looks worse, Taggart or Feunte?
W: Taggart looks 100 x worse
K: [laughing] yes it does!
W: When you get beat this badly, just shut up. Go back to work.
This was the lead story, by the way
Yeah, they hit wet Willie pretty hard over this haha Kinda funny. But honestly, I'm over all this nonsense. Many teams have done this in the past (FSU included) and will again in the future...
On to week 2... time to go 1-0, again!
For anyone who wants to listen to the full segment (starts at 1:02):
http://www.espn.com/espnradio/play?id=24588862
(I downloaded the mp3. Why does ESPN still use flash?)
Reading this earlier today I felt pretty insulted by Taggert. But as I thought about it, I don't think it's the right reaction.
Read the full article in its context. He doesn't really use the supposed "fake injuries" as an excuse so much as he gave an honest answer to a reporter's question. I don't think it excuses him completely, but I think he was naive about how the media was going to take that quote and run headlines with it. A more polished HC gives a safe politicians non-answer to that question regardless of what his opinion is. Basically it's just another example of how over his head this guy is coaching a nationally prominent football team.
You know who I think we should be mad at though? Kirk Herbstreit. I thought it was fing ridiculous how during the game he says "FSU fans seem to think a player is faking an injury. We're not going to speculate on that." He then proceeds to, in fact, "speculate on that".
Without Herbstreit jumping to conclusions on prime time, I don't think anyone's talking about this and I don't think Taggert even gets asked this question. Herbstreit has been around too long to not know better and I think we should expect better. I would go so far as to say I think Herbstreit should apologize but I know better than to expect that.
While I agree that the statement has been taken out of context, to a degree, I still put blame on Taggart. I'd wager that FSU has a dozen or more people who had the game film edited by position group, by the next morning. If he'd had one of them take 20-30 minutes to look at the matter, they would have found the proof that's been reported by multiple sources, including Andy Bitter, that the injuries were real and not faked. As a consequence, his inaccurate statements are on him.
We're agreeing more than you realize then. I don't take any blame off Taggert, I'm just pointing out his statements seem more rooted in incompetency than malice, so my reaction is less angry.
I am a little pissed at the ESPN announcers, however. I think they should be held to a higher standard, even though they'll most likely get out of this unscathed.
If you are right and it's incompetency, then Taggart won't survive the year.
Im not so quick to give Willie any leniency on this one. As a head coach that just got dominated on what was supposed to be your "coronation," the right answer to this question is..
"I don't know if they were injured or not and it doesn't matter, we have to focus on getting better as a football team."
Anything else looks like a cheap excuse. The truth is that players going down had absolutely zero effect on the outcome of this game, it was a handful of occasions. Your team failed to move the ball forward from scrimmage 35 times during the game..the "interruptions" to your tempo had nothing to do with that.
Take the blame, accept the loss and move on. Act like you're a professional that knows what he's doing (even if all the evidence suggests the opposite).
I cannot like this response enough. Taggart doesn't deserve a pass.
Yeah Herbie better watch himself or he's gonna become Cris Collinsworth 2.0
Boy, have I got something for him!
Taggert is doing exactly what guys who are in completely over their heads do...try to go after someone else and deflect the scrutiny. Honestly, after watching and listening to the guy; I'm not sure he knows any better. He's a clown in the most literal sense of the word.
I think the second point that is worth making is that this wouldn't even be a "story," if Fowler and Herbstreit hadn't gone out of their way to comment on it vociferously during the game, Herbstreit especially.
I wasn't aware that KH could diagnose injuries with his Eagle Eyes from 300 feet away with an greater accuracy than, you know, an actual Doctor or Athletic Trainer.
Especially given the tragedy that occurred at Maryland recently, ESPN should probably tell their commentators and analysts to keep their "medical opinions," to themselves. As many have demonstrated above, it was clear that Burke was legit injured prior to going down.
Herbstreit should focus on what he is good at, trying to create excuses for his good buddy and all-around fantastic human being, Urban Meyer.
Let's try to keep politics off the board /s
Well, FSU does have a clown college - so he fits right in
I personally love this!!
Makes them look pathetic and makes us seem that much more professional and real. It also keeps the pounding we gave em at the top of the CFB news
Oh yeah, that's the stuff
Not quite as satisfying as the Cowherd LOLUVA rants, but I'll take it.
Wilbon's wife is a UVa alum and he takes his family to games at Scott Stadium all the time (PTI is based out of DC)...when he's defending any Hokie, that says something.
Guess Taggart (and the ACC officiating crew) missed XB getting chop blocked because he was too busy watching the replay of the non-TD.
69 Dickerson hit Burke low in the left leg while he was being blocked by 72 Arnold.
via ytCropper
via GIPHY
Im sure it's already been said elsewhere, maybe even in this thread. I know the valley gets hot and humid, I grew up there. I've experienced it, as most if not all of us have.. But to come down to tropical heat and humidity, in an already disgusting Tallahassee, for the first live contact they've seen in 9 months, did he really expect our guys to not have cramping and other bumps and such that they weren't used to? Tarzan himself would struggle in the weather down here. Hell I've been in south florida now for 14 years and I still struggle with the heat/humidity more times than not.
The dude needs to quit his bitching and realize that he got out-coached not just on Monday night, but for the entire offseason. He had plenty of time to prep his guys for what they were going to see. By now, everyone in the country knows Bud Foster is a damn genius. Admit to not being the best on the field that night and move on. Admit that you got completely out coached and out played, give respect where it's due, and move the hell on.
Continuing to bitch and moan and make excuses only tells me one thing- he's going to fit in well in Tally.
You know, it wasn't till I heard about him saying this that I actually began to believe Willie Taggart does the things I accused him of doing in my hatin's-on.
FWIW, love how ESPN is going all in on keeping this story as relevant as possible, considering it's the top link on the CFB page. There are obviously minimal games to look forward to this weekend, so they have to keep the people talking about something.
Forget the fact that on Tues morn you had to scroll 7/8 of the way down the page to even find a link to a recap of the only game that occurred the night before.
Danny Kanell being a hardcore homer, Andy Bitter being an actual reporter with receipts. Do NOT mess with Andy Bitter, he'll get after ya!!!
Wow...awesome! And Bitter is 100% in the right here, if you read his articles he has not hesitated to point out shortcomings or be critical of VT. He did not go to VT and I believe he has stated that he does not consider himself a VT "fan."
But we should probably give Kanell a bit of a break here....he did graduate from Florida State, its a bit presumptuous to think he reads at higher than a 3rd-Grade Level.
I like new Andy. Not holding back. Damn.
(I say this knowing full well when the truth is jaded from our side it will haunt me)
I think his new boss recognizes the benefits of being inflammatory on twitter. He's now catering to a nationwide audience of people who specifically paid to join the Athletic for hokie coverage so who cares if he pisses of FSU fans/alums? It also helps that in this case he can appeal to VT homers while being 100% truthful and objective. Best of both worlds.
Andy Bitter has always been tight. There was a beef on these boards a while back, which deserved vocal disagreement. New Andy and Old Andy are - by and large - the same guy. No beefs about it, that guy rocks.
As a side note, can anyone with video editing skills proffer a sequence of pointed observations on those plays that injured our players? If there is definitive video about when and how our players were legit injured, this goes the hell away like yesterday. I don't like our team being accused of this, but I also believe if we deserve to get called out then call us the hell out, fuckin a man.
I'm responding to myself because this topic seems to have kept traction over the days. Can anyone actually make a compilation video showing all the times our players got hurt, with the precipitating event that caused the injury? This would shut a lot of people up, Danny Kanell included.
Anyone else remember when Trevon Hill got upset at Andy for basically being too critical of the team and not being positive enough? Clearly a homer. Good to see Kanell's reign of jackassery lives on.
I am very here for AB blasting national sports personalities on Twitter dot com.
Good thing FSU wasn't playing Wisconsin. Andy would have really gotten mad.
Danny Kanell got another job covering sports? How? Why?
Don't feed the trolls.
ACC Champ game... 2024?
He's an angry elf.
Danny Kanell looks like a dental school dropout.
Thanks. Now I got that song from Grease in my head.
Your story sad to tell,
A teenage ne'er do well,
Most mixed up quarterback on the block.
Your future's so unclear now,
What's left of your career now?
Can't even get a trade in on your smile.
Dental school dropout,
You'll have no graduation day.
Dental school dropout,
You failed crowns and tooth decay.
Well at least you could have taken time,
To brush and floss your teeth up.
After spending all that dough,
To your implants fixed up.
Danny get movin,
(Better get movin)
Why keep your feeble hopes alive?
What are you provin?
(What are you provin)
You've got the dream but not the drive.
If you go for your diploma you could join the steno pool.
Turn in your dental drill and go back to high school!
Dental school dropout,
(Dental school dropout)
Hanging around the network booth.
Dental school dropout
(Dental school dropout)
It's about time you brushed that tooth.
Well you couldn't pass a thing,
You think you're such a thrower.
But no underdog's fan will listen to you,
'Cause for favorites you are a blower!
Danny don't sweat it.
(Don't sweat it)
You're not cut out to hold a job.
Better forget it,
(Forget it)
Who wants to listen to a nattering nabob?
Now your arm is lame,
Your takes are all blame,
But still the world is cruel,
Brush up those nasty teeth and go back to high school.
Danny don't blow it,
Don't put my good advice to shame!
Danny you know it,
Even dear Abby'd say the same!
Now I've called the shot,
Get off the pot,
I really gotta fly,
Gotta be going to that end zone in the sky.
Dental school dropout
(Dental school dropout)
Go back to high school
Dental school dropout
(Dental school dropout)
Go back to high school
Dental school dropout
(Dental school dropout)
Go back to high school
"See you in ACC Champ game"???
Why? Is he planning on buying a ticket to watch someone else play? 'Cause F$U isn't going, based on what I saw Monday.
And this trash "reporter" is still going.
I can't fathom the number of mental backflips required to get here. Danny, dude, it's okay to admit you were wrong.
I wanna punch Danny in the dickhole and then tell him he's faking it
Andy Bitter is going all in on Kanell.
EDIT: I know, I know. I'll drink.
Andy from the top rope!!!!!!
I think Danny Kanell deserves some credits for admitting he's wrong with grace
I don't think saying he's keeping some Tech homer in check (especially with faulty information) is admitting he's wrong with grace. Unless, of course, he followed up Andy's latest with another mea culpa.
If that's admitting you're wrong with grace, Willie Taggart left Oregon with grace.
I would expect this from one of those Warchant Wrap guys, but coming from a high(ish) profile ex-ESPN personality, this is pretty low. Who are you to make those stabs, Danny? Geez, this has gotten absurd.
@Willie Taggart:
You Mad Bro?
Hey can any of your smart people answer this for me. How many total injury timeouts were there for Tech players? Having this "debate" down here in FL. The FSU fans claim between 5-9 injury timeouts.
5 in the second quarter. 1 in the 4th.
(they also had one in the 4th.)
search each quarter for "injur"
Here's all the guys going down, a total of 6 (took what BreakZoneHokie did and added the cause of each injury)
2nd quarter 12:58, 3rd and 12, incomplete pass – Ricky Walker (25) is helped off the field. FG kick after, so the injury does not slow the offense down. INJURY TIMEOUT
2nd quarter 9:36, 3rd and 3 converted for 1st down – Trevon Hill (94), knee injury – OL fell on his knees. INJURY TIMEOUT
2nd quarter 8:40, 1st and goal for no gain – Xavier Burke (43), left ankle/knee – cut block by OL and immediately hops away from the play on his right leg. INJURY TIMEOUT
2nd quarter 3:19, 1st down – Burke (43) limps back to LOS to get back for the next play
2nd quarter 3:02, 1st down (next play) – Burke falls down after long completion. INJURY TIMEOUT
2nd quarter 2:13, 3rd and 2 for no gain – Walker (25) & Reggie Floyd (21) collide helmet to helmet trying to tackle FSU's Akers (3). FG attempt after. INJURY TIMEOUT
Final one is the Akers 85 yard run with Trevon Hill going down.
You get extra credit for giving BreakZoneHokie credit.
BreakZone made my life way easier to track down what happened to each player, it was very deserved.
Frankly, I'm loving it. FSU can whine all they want, the consensus seems to be from non-Seminoles is that this is a bad look for them because their offensive scheme was completely owned by the Bud God.
If they can't find a way to refocus, it's going to get ugly in Tallahassee. That team that showed up to play Monday could lose to every team on their schedule starting with Northern Illinois.
The Bitter - Kanell Twitter Battle will be what to watch for today... Bitter is winning, and Kanell is a cry-baby.
There is no universe where I could see Kanell outwitting Bitter in a war of words.
MrDannyFSUHack:
1. Do you think that the injuries (real or not in your mind) had anything at all to do with the outcome of the game?
2. If so, do you think now that your coach has publicly complained that every other team you play for eternity won't intentionally do the same thing? They might even do it just simply for the effect of getting into his head since days later, he is clearly still thinking about it..
3. Shouldn't we all as college football fans just agree that booing injured players is always bad form?
Unless you're from Philly
To be fair, getting boo'd in Philly is really just a sign of respect from the crowd.
Kanell makes his money being a combative asshat. He's wrong as the day is long. He even calls him a VT homer, which Bitter is certainly not, if he even has become a fan at all over the years, he hides it very well.
Kanell is now openly sharing clips and outright accusing Hill and Burke of taking dives. After what happened with McNair this summer, this might be one of the single most irresponsible hot takes I've seen. Its outright dangerous to start these kind of pointed accusations, because this mindset literally leads to players pushing through when they shouldn't and their bodies shutting down on the field, leading to long term health issues, if not death.
Exactly
And for the record, with Burke being the one player everyone seems to be pointing toward with these accusations, this is how he got injured on Monday
What's worse is that by doubling Burke (43) with the chop block, Dickerson (69) leaves a play-side LB unblocked, putting this play at even bigger disadvantage. As a result, FSU basically has 2 blockers (TE, RB) leading the WR to the edge vs 4 defenders (DE, LB, LB, RV). Might have been a bad read by Francois to hand it off instead of taking it up the left side himself, but still..
Lethal Simplicity indeed.
We dared him to run on every read we sold out on the RB and he never (or rarely) kept it. Don't know if that's Taggart trying to protect him or a lot of bad reads
Quick! Somebody get Coach Taggert this:
Or some of this:
It sounds like he's full of shit.
It took me a while to make the connection because he had such a miner (pun) role, but I've now totally figured out that Willie Taggart is just Charles Miner from The Office. He was horrible as an actor on NBC and wasn't any better on ESPN. Everything makes perfect sense now...
I hardly know her!
Don't you dare talk badly about Idris Elba!
Da heck you just say about Idris Elba?
Drink
I'll put this here!
I have looked at the second drive @ FSU and Haze caught the ball. His right toe was in bound! Danny knows. The announcers never questioned the call. Only 1 replay. Bitches. Need to wear black cleats! That is how close it was. Take a look.