I'm sure most, if not all, of you run into the same situation I do during games, which is your phone essentially turns into a paperweight with a flashlight because you cannot get service. I have had the same issue with both AT&T and Verizon.
Last night I had a possible emergency in which it was imperative to get a line out. I could not get through at all. Without going into any personal detail about the situation, I attempted to call out over 50 times and zero went through.
To add to my fear and frustration, I went all over the stadium speaking to event staff, EMTs at the aid station, police officers and anyone else looking official explaining my situation and practically begging for someone to let me use a landline to complete my call.
Some were more helpful than others and many offered to place the call on their personal cell phones, all of which also did not go through, but NONE were able point me to a landline I could use in the case of emergency. The only way I sorted the situation out was by me leaving the game.
I'm posting this thread because I am livid about what I went through and though my situation certainly could have been a complete emergency (only by getting in touch with the person, did I find out it wasn't) I fear others in more dire circumstances would run into the same obstacles.
I am without question emailing Whit about this to express my concern, but I wanted to see if I could use TKP to crowdsource any suggestions or other contacts with the school you all believe I should contact as well.
So, please let me hear your suggestions.
UPDATE: I emailed Whit like I said. He forwarded my email to the person in charge of facilities and operations and I received a response. Here's the rub...there absolutely were several landlines around the stadium to which he says I should have been directed. Makes me feel some kind of way that I wasn't. But, he said that it would be brought up in their debriefing in prep for the next game. I hope that it is and that it is corrected and becomes an SOP for future similar situations.
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I had a similar situation a few years ago, no service whatsoever and good luck trying to connect to stadium wi-fi.
This is not exclusive to Lane, it is pretty much every major sporting venue. It is an issue. It is also a reason they say that attendance is dwindling at sporting events all over the world;
millennialsthe target audience does not want to be without their phone and therefore won't go into an environment where they can't use it. If they can't fix that thenkidsyoung people with the money will continue to not attend the way they did in the past.(Not comparing your situation with a kid wanting to be on Facebook, but as a point of reference)
I didn't think you were. And I understand all too well this is a problem with any large event because cell towers become overloaded. But when you go to event staff and first responders with a legitimate emergency and they can't get you to a landline to help or use their own phones to make the call something is fucked.
One of the LEOs I talked to did his best to help me, but ultimately he was at a loss as to what I could do. There has to be some kind of contingency for this situation. If there truly is not when first responders can't use their own damned phones in an emergency situation, then what does that say about Lane's emergency preparedness?
I think HokieFireman or someone else knowledgable with radio communications can respond on hiw the Emergency radio waves are allocated and work. Those folks communicate over different radio bands strictly allocated for that purpose. And because of such, aren't congested like cellular frequencies. Sporting andother events aren't immune to cell phone issues due to network congestion. To solve that, you need to mobilize more towers to alleviate having 66k+ users in one location all at once!
Times I've run into this issue, I usually begin thinking of global satellite phones (which is ridiculously expensive but rightfully so) or making sure I have a bug out plan that gets me to a non-congested cell phone tower.
Again, I know full well why cell phones have issues in these environments. And while that should be addressed as well, that is NOT why I posted this thread.
My problem is that you go to first responders and event staff with an emergency in which all that is needed is for someone to place a simple phone call and they have no clue how to help. I'm assuming there is a landline somewhere in the stadium, yes? The police officer trying to help me had no illusions as to the severity and sincerity of my situation, but was clueless as to how to help.
"More towers" isn't necessarily the answer. With so many devices all trying to use the same radio band, the entire band can get overcrowded to the point where nothing can get through due to all the noise.
Just based off the police and firemen that I'm personally friends with, and being in a line of work where I occasionally have contact with emergency services, I'm really surprised none of the first responders radioed their dispatch and asked someone to make contact with whoever it was you were trying to get in touch with. That seems to be pretty standard procedure in emergency situations in this part of the country. They would just be able to relay basic information (whether or not your worst fears were confirmed), but at least you would have known the situation.
Anyone in the NRV area with experience with first responders have any idea why this wouldn't have been the first step after failing to get a mobile call out?
Exactly what I am getting at and why I want to bring it up with those making decisions. I work closely with our local PSAP and that nothing like this was tried or on the first responders' radar blew my mind because it either reflects poor training or, much more troubling, an unwillingness to help.
This sub-thread is the correct one. My first job was in Scott County, VA. I was the GIS Tech for the county and they put the GIS position under the e911 department because of addressing. My office was in the PSAP building on the other side of the "hardened wall." I had to be certified dispatcher just in case TSHTF. So I saw this exact problem solved probably 5-10 times over 3 years. It's called a welfare check and you can do it in person or by phone. A LEO should have radio'd VTPD dispatch and asked the dispatcher to place a call to a number to ask a question or do a welfare check or ask a question or whatever. If a dispatcher can't make contact by phone, then they should make whatever phone calls to whatever jurisdiction to get an officer in contact with the person. This is part of the reason we have 911 dispatch centers tied to law enforcement jurisdictions.
Anyway, it is apalling that not one public safety officer or stadium official could direct you to a landline, or ask VTPD dispatch to make a call.
Edit: I can't wait to HokieFF to chime in. This is what he's going to school for.
So without knowing what agencies the officers he talked to were with, who handles radio communications at events like this, what the radio policy is it's hard to fault anyone without more information for not radioing in this. HOWEVER they should be faulted for not finding a VTPD or Rhino supervisor who could have taken him to the operations area or courtesy area where a landline or other solution should have been made available.
TLDR: The issue for me isn't the non use of radios but the lack of finding someone from the Lane stadium/VT operations staff who could have helped.
I talked to the EMTs in the first aid station (Not sure who staffs that. Wasn't paying attention.), multiple RHINO staff, VT stadium staff who work the doors outside of the stadium to the press boxes (At least I assume they were VT. They definitely weren't RHINO.), and the law enforcement officer was a county deputy (Not sure the agency. Again, wasn't paying attention to those details at the time.).
Edit: Oh yeah, even talked to the guys working the ESPN trailer.
And all of those people should have been able to find someone who could help you.
You won't have this problem in major venues. For example, the dreaded FedEx. They invested in technology that would increase cell capacity during games (kind of like the repeaters in the Metro tunnels).
I have been to this particular major venue and many others that have this technology or installed wifi. It really makes no difference. The wifi gets jammed and is useless, and the network is still jammed. NASCAR venues in particular (especially when sprint was the sponsor) brought in lots of backup cell support. It didn't help especially when something crazy happens and everyone is jamming the network trying to share it. It's all about network saturation. Too many signals at once and devices and the network cant make sense of it all; just gets jumbled together.
Please leave the "Millennial" thing out of this...
I have to read enough ignorant garbage telling me what my generation does
I merely am pointing out what venues have to do to adapt to the current generation. I did not use it in an offensive way. I could reclassify millennial as "the target crowd major sporting venues need to attract and therefore have to cater to their needs."
While that was not your intent, it could be read as a snarky comment regarding millennials. My 1st reaction was "those damned millennials, are screwing up things again" then I remembered "hey, I was PO'd about the complete lack of cell service too".
On a more serious note, I have to wonder if the lack of service, in stadiums is part of the cause of the decline in attendance in sporting events across the board. There's a lot of down time during games (you don't get a true sense until you are at a game and see the guy in the red shirt is on the field more than the O or the D are on the field). Heck, they even wanted you to text your preference for a song, to be played later, in the game, so they are literally saying "use your phone" and it makes you even more aware that your phone doesn't work in the stadium.
This is the information era. If you are going to cut off information, you will likely lose customers.
There is nothing to wonder about, it is definitely part of the cause in the decline. It isn't just sporting events either. Bars with strong wifi and charging ports perform better. Amusement park attendance is up in parks with stable wifi, and they hold that attendance longer throughout the day. I am not excluded as I said before; very rarely do I go a long period of time without trying to do something on my phone.
And quite frankly I do not care how my comment could be read. Anything can be over analyzed. If anyone read
in what I wrote, then I suggest you read it again.
Just to be sure that I communicated effectively...
I didn't intend to say that's what you said. It was my mental knee jerk reaction (so all on me), which is actually in jest, because 99% of the things that millennials are accused of I can get on board with (the 1% is the elimination of top sheets. We've raised a generation of wildlings, who don't use top sheets).
I read that. It's right there in the block quote. ;^)
Yeah, it sucks to be picked on because of your age, huh? While the idea of having a phone attached to me like so many folks these days do is unthinkable, there is no excuse whatsoever for not having access to emergency communication while in the stadium.
Dang, I was thinking that I was part of the cool kids, because I was PO'd that I couldn't check scores for other games, while at the game on Saturday. Now you had to go and make me feel like an old man again, by pointing out that wanting cell service isn't a millennial thing.
you know who complains about being call millennials? Snowflake millennials
I keed I keed.
Thats such a Millennial joke to make....
I know this isn't your point, but seeing as how I am a millennial, it pisses me off how often I see it used as a catch-all and often derogatory term for "young people". Millennials range from about 22 to 36 years old and are not kids. Students in college now are mostly non-millennials at this point. I don't mean this as a personal attack, just trying to educate the masses.
I edited this from what I originally wrote because it has been a long day. Regardless, I am 32 and I know perfectly well what classifies a millennial. I did not mean it in a derogatory or offensive manner so I apologize. I stand by my point original point that the target crowd of major sporting venues is the young adult generation, and if they want to draw them in they need to be able to use their phones while there. They aren't going to change that need, they can only adapt to it.
I know you weren't trying to be offensive. It's just nails on a chalkboard to me.
There's nothing derogatory or offensive with being associated with avocado toast. It's delicious 😋
I'm now kicking myself for having never thought to substitute avocado for cream cheese on a lox bagel.
but make sure you add Red Onion
This might be less of an issue in a year or two. With 5G rolling out over the next year or so it should help with overloaded towers. Even possibly being able to provide decent wifi to a sporting venue. But that requires people to have those phones and for the network to be up to speed instead of slowly phased in.
If it's imperative...
There's always Global satellite phone service
Someone inside Lane should have access to a landline. Bitching about the cell phone service is just ignorance of physics. The Emergency responders should have access to a different set of frequencies that are clear even during games / emergencies. Not sure why they didn't assist.
For the last goddamned time, I'm not fucking bitching about not having service. I'm saying that no one knew how or was willing to help.
Geez apfow, get it through your head that cell service is just gonna suck in a stadium. /s
I'm all seriousness, glad everything turned out ok.
And thank you.
And I apologize for getting bent out of shape, but it seems like everyone thinks I don't know how cell phones work and that that is the issue I'm concerned with. I'm pissed because no one knew how or was willing to help. Plain and simple. I posted in earnest to ask for help. Not to bitch. I will bitch to the people that can possibly help with the problem like Whit, VTPD, etc. I know that there is a wealth of knowledge in our community and I was sincerely asking for anyone to share.
Yeah man I don't know. I am sure years ago there were call boxes through the stadium and probably pay phones. hard to say these days. As I think said before, the first responders would be under the same cell situations and would be communicating mainly using VHF or UHF frequencies, but in order to get a call out they would have had to get someone on the other end to make the call. And I don't know why that would not have been a possibility for them either.
Aspfow, my fault on my poor response as I normally try to illicit mostly humor or information.
I'd be just as livid as you in that moment. Little details like having backups to the backup are necessary in times of emergency ops.
I'm glad everything in the end turned out okay. It is surely not okay that they couldn't dispatch someone on their radio to make an outgoing call for you. Poor actions on their end if they don't have a plan in place for those situations or even the ability to problem-solve at the time of need.
Maybe we can all include some of the tips shared here on this thread on the gameday thread so the TKP FAMbase can use that info in case they encounter something like this?
We good fam.
I'm sure it would not have helped in your situation or you would have tried it, but in areas with spotty cell coverage (backpacking, for instance) it is better to attempt communication with text messages than phone calls since they require less battery and can be sent/received using a fraction of bandwidth a voice call requires.
You're not wrong that pressure needs to be put on providers to improve their capacity/coverage around these venues. They have deployable towers for use in disaster situations, maybe that is an avenue the University can look into to help during events.
I doubt it would have helped. I tried to send a few text messages during the game yesterday and kept getting message send failures. Which in turn murdered my battery because my phone kept trying to resend them.
Agreed. It's pretty much a last resort option which is preferable only when faced with the situation where you might get a text out or you definitely won't get a call out.
I'm curious who your carrier is as my wife was able to send me some texts from the stadium while I was watching the kids. We have Verizon and both use an iPhone 6. I was also able to get some texts out when I was at the William and Mary game. Twitter loaded up for me too.
The more logical question is why wasn't I there? It was my wife's last chance to sit in the seats that her grandpa has had since 1965. Both of her grandparents passed during the off-season. Section 12 Row Q. The seats are awesome!!
Sorry to hear about your wife's grandparents. RIP those tickets (and the grandparents, of course). I have Verizon and an iPhone 7. My dude was right next to me and he also has Verizon, but I think he has a Pixel; he was able to send and receive texts during the game. You mention having service on the concourse of the East stands, and now that you mention it, the one time I went down to the restroom, I received a ton of notifications at one time. I was never in a position where I needed to make a call though, and I doubt I would have been able to get one out.
We have Verizon (Samsung phones-- Note and Galaxy) and we were able to send and receive texts in the East stands...
Thank you for the condolences. My wife had a great time with her dad even with the outcome. To me, it seems service is a little better than previous years, but obviously not ideal.
That's probably because your iPhone was trying to send an iMessage while their Pixel was just sending a text, which doesn't require 3G or 4G AFAIK.
Someone further down said they turn off iMessage during games and it works okay. I'm definitely going to try that at the UNC game. The real test will be the GT game in a few weeks, as I doubt attendance at Kenan will be terribly overwhelming.
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I posted this (I think) in the revenue generating ideas thread and it's kind of applicable here. There could be a dedicated cell network for some certain level of Hokie Club members. Once in the stadium those members log into it and get great service while others get standard (awful) service. Of course, APFOW, unless you were in the club or knew someone this wouldn't help you directly.
Best solution is to have some sort of emergency landlines in a few key places of the stadium. Seems this should be a standard contingency plan but evidently not. That needs to be addressed and fixed asap.
been to stadiums in many countries and I have designed a few small stadiums myself. wifi and cellular service in the stadium can be done. stadiums in USA don't want to spend the money. plain and simple.
It is crazy that you can't find a landline anywhere in the stadium. A payphone would have been a great option.
FWIW I had solid 4G (Verizon) coverage on the upper East concourse. Didn't try and make a call, but webpages loaded, instagram/FB posts went thru, etc.
In the seating bowl there was no signal or such weak signal that texts/webpages didn't load.
Your ass pocket running out of whiskey before halftime clearly isn't a legitimate emergency in the eyes of stadium personnel and emergency responders. /s
All kidding aside, this is clearly a legitimate concern for fans. In the not so distant past, we had no choice but to be oblivious to potential emergencies for long periods of time. Now that technology has evolved to the point where it is today, we have become dependent on new standards for acceptable communications. The best solutions I can come up with have already been suggested. Train emergency personnel to relay communications with those in need, or provide landlines for approved situations.
You would think if we can coordinate various military planes to do stadium flyovers during the national anthem someone could have gotten apfow a landline or some sort of help.
I have to turn off iMessage to be able to get anything to go out. Otherwise, my texts go nowhere. No chance of anything else working.
As others have said I'm sure there are landlines that would have been available. Most elevators are required by code to have a dedicated line in case of emergency, so I'm sure there's multiple others available in the stadium. Kinda strange that someone couldn't get in touch with a local command center or communications base in the stadium. I know they have protocols in place it just doesn't seem like they knew what the deal was. Should've been able to radio up the chain until you got to a phone. Thankfully it ended ok for you.
Pretty sure this is just cell phones in general nowadays. They are great at playing facespace and updating your fantasy football rosters but cannot place a call for shit regardless of the manufacturer or provider.
Why would they bother to care? Nobody under 60 answers their damn phone anyway.
Protip: Just send them a text, they prefer it that way. ;^)
I know. Why be so inconvenienced that you would actually have to talk to someone? Heaven forbid! Other than the obvious lack of emergency communication that could have been avoided if emergency personnel had been properly informed, this entire thread just makes me shake my head and want to say stuff that I know I shouldn't.
Just an FYI, a lot of times the cell towers can get overloaded at events where there are big crowds.
Same problem.. I have found that if you go to the south end zone and stand near the gates you can get some connection.
Having worked as a Rhino staff member for a few years (usher, west stands) I'm shocked that the usher in your section couldn't get you to a landline. Even more shocked that LEO couldn't either.
That said, we never were told if there was access to a landline and I never encountered an issue like that. I guarantee that a Rhino supervisor/someone in control could have directed you to one.