May as well get it started.
I'm not buying this all about the players. They were perfectly fine for 3 series. After that we've go nothing new to show and the defense adjusts. We don't adjust.
The defense is not good and too thin. We can't expect to be a contender if losing a single player destroys our defense (Ladler).
GT is not good. We're worse.
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Comments
Why we had 7 defenders 5 yards back or more of LOS all game baffles me. They have their whole team up on the line and just dominating the line of scrimmage every play and getting 5 yards a pop. I honestly do not see ANY game adjustment by Foster.
Oh... and tackling SUCKED ASS
I think our game plan was to prevent big plays and hope the offense could keep us in the game.
so your typical epic fail against GT gameplan, then
that's fine but they have been doing the same shit for 3+ quarters and we have made ZERO changes
I agree but playing to prevent big plays vs GT means letting them score on every possession. Gotta try something different, Bud. Could be more disappointed in him.
With the defensive players we have on the field not preventing big plays means GT scores in 2 minutes instead of 5 mins. We weren't going to stop GT regardless.
Seems like in the late-3rd and 4th quarter, 2 minutes would have been better.
Along with the opportunity for a turnover.
If our offense could score it may have been.
First to admit I'm not the X and Os guy but that really stood out. At least dare them to throw. Stack the line for fuck sake.
Umm, our D-line is pathetically tiny and that just can't fight aside from Mihota and Walker. We need some depth or just any big bodies, at least to sub in as backups. How about putting some backup O-linemen in there just for the hell of it to get through the rest of this horrendous season???
No hesitation to convert a d-line to o-line under Beamer, and do not necessarily have to make it permanent, but just enough to get us through.
Also, Beamer made some really dumb coaching decisions under his watch, but those were typical ones you would see from any coach. The stuff Fuente does makes you really worry whether he knows what the hell he is doing. Guy out coaches himself a lot of the time. I was really impressed with him the first year as it seems he just let it roll. Now it appears he stumbles all over his own thoughts and it just gets worse every year.
The rollback in aggressiveness which stalled our offensive momentum in order to give the defense a break in the 1st half was a huge mistake.
What does it say about Fuente that the only really effective player on his entire offense (and maybe the entire team when you consider how pathetic and worthless the other side of the ball is) was a transfer basically recruited by somebody on another staff from the previous regime (Moorehead)?
I thought you were going to say the punter! lol
He recruited Ford & Philips too. Basically all our recent effective wrs
I've had more fun playing with dog turds than I did sitting at this game.
Apparently, David Ragan is sitting behind my dad at the game. Nice guy, GT fan, trashed and being hilarious.
Is it basketball season yet?
I'm from the future and have bad news
what's the emoji for a wet fart? because that's what that was
Just google cake farts
i thought i had seen the weirdest result of cake farts available on the internet, but you've enlightened me. an upvote is in order i do believe.
As BAG made this famous.... We officially looked like a "soft shit on a rainy day"
But...but...but "still have a chance to lose to Clemson in the ACCCG" & "young team offseason of attrition" & "3-5 more yrs".....
Bud must have been too busy changing his stocks into bonds to prepare a gameplan this week
It ain't worth it to get mad about this team. This isn't a good team. Our goal now is to win 6 games and make a bowl, and keep the Cup.
This was always going to be a rough season with a young defense. It's worse than expected.
At the end of the day, this season shows how far we are for contending for the ACC let alone nationally. Humble pie sucks, but hopefully it leads to better things down the line.
That said, I'm signing off for the night. The meltdown that is going to happen after the final whistle ain't worth sticking around for.
Fuck the bowl streak. Aiming for >6-6, beating UVA and nothing beyond that is what got us here.
So you hope we lose?
Did I say that? Hint: I did not.
Keeping the bowl streak alive shouldn't be our #1 priority. We shoudl be aiming to win the conference. If losing the streak gets people taking this seriously enough to put us on the path to getting back to winning the conference, so be it. Let it die.
The expectations have shifted throughout the season. You think the team or anyone here said 'Yeah let's shoot for 6-6' back in August?
Many suspected we would struggle. There were definitely rumbles from the realists. We're young, broken down, like a gimpy soldier with foot rot eating rotton porridge around a fire. It's rough. I'll still rout for the team - we've been blessed in the past, more than we knew I think.
Again, I'm not sure why this is a challenge to understand. If losing the bowl streak will hold some people accountable and will result in changes that will get us closer to winning the Conference next year, I don't necessarily care about making a bowl this year.
Take your point, but change is no guarantee of success either.
You're right, but if we're not seeing progress (or are regressing), the status quo isn't working either.
Strawman...but let him go, or he'll shout you down.
How else was I supposed to interpret "fuck the bowl streak"? I was being genuine and posing it as a question to him. A strawman would be to phrase it as a statement and attribute it to him.
Not being concerned about a (mostly meaningless) streak and claiming I'm out here actively hoping we lose is pretty much the definition of.
I didn't claim anything. I asked you if you wanted us to lose. That's the point of the post you're replying to. I didn't come out and say 'Well it's obvious you want us to lose' etc. That would have been a strawman.
Agreed!
I've held my tongue on this one so i'll only post it as a comment
but remember how we used to see youth
http://www.thekeyplay.com/content/2013/october/16/quick-word-about-youth
"If the coaching isn't there, you could squander all the talent in the world."
Well that jumps out
I almost think this loss was so bad that you cant really meltdown. Like people pretty much saw how awful we are.
Okay. Good night.
I think the most dIsappointing thing is the Coastal was there for the taking and we can't hold serve in Lane. I hope the pain leads to something better, but I don't know any more if VT can ever get back to where it was.
Youth is not an excuse. These guys are just not athletic enough and are not that good. At first I was angry due to lack of discipline and poor execution. But these guys are just mediocre. We just need to accept that.
So what does that say about Fuente's recruiting process? Many other programs get young Fresh and Soph who pick things up quickly. If talent is really the issue, then that doesn't look good for future.
Hell, we have had many young players be impactful. But they were beamers recruits lol. Even during his bad recruiting years at the end. Though to be fair, we have some young WRs that are quite impactful right now.
I am totally concerned about this. We may be recruiting good blockers first at skill positions because that's how this offense works. Do any P5 teams run this type of offense successfully with 3*
and 4*recruits? I kind of feel like once you get to P5 the defenses are generally fast and smart enough to compensate for the misdirection.Watching the Clemson game last year made that abundantly clear. On a number of plays Clemson's defenders were WAY out of position but they had the speed, smarts and technique to get back into position and blow up our plays.
I also kind of doubt the read plays work on the goal line. In most sports (including marital arts) it is well known that the attacker has an advantage as the defender is reacting. I really feel like read plays turn that around and make the offense reactive. So instead of knowing where the ball is going and executing quickly you pause for to read the defense and then try to execute. I really feel like you need about 10 yards of space to make that happen. Right up on the goal line I feel like we need to quickly and powerfully execute a play that is not read oriented.
Tackling was awful. Liked most of the offensive playcalling excluding the third down call. The muffed punt changed the entire game. Linebackers played so far off the LOS. As mentioned above, we knew this season was going to be rough, but not like this. I don't know where we go from here to be honest.
Every time with you.
Did you really have to edit it to add another gif? You had already gotten your point across.
Literally everything is poo
Yep. Especially the team.
Special brown-out uni's against BC?
Or just maroon pants to hide the mess...
So you're upset about an extra gif?
You my friend, must have much bigger problems...
I'm not actually upset about it. I just thought it was silly.
Never enough feces for hokiemacpoober
I dunno. I think it works.
Goodnight folks. This is about to get reeeal toxic. Stay safe tonight Hokies.
Last home game I'll attend for 23 to 47 months.
Unfortunately it's not worth the time and money with a kid on the way to continually watch our team lose at home.
I've seen VT get beaten badly before, but I think this is legitimately the worst and most puzzling defensive effort. Our players were chasing GT all night, no real negative plays, and never seemed to be in position. No idea what was going on with the alignments but I will leave that to better football minds.
During the first half, I said to my friends that whoever makes the first defensive stop will win the game. That team was GT. Just sad.
Worst game on defense since Duke Johnson ran all over us.
With regrets, ftfy
Hate to break it to you but if you're lucky enough to have the chance to watch a game live, much less attend one, after having a kid you should be eternally grateful. I haven't been to a game in Lane in 5 years and usually end up just fast forwarding through the game after it's over if I want to watch. That said I hope things work out as well as possible and best of luck as you start a new chapter in life.
I appreciate that. I'm fortunate enough that my wife's parents live in town (Roanoke), so if I wanted to get to a game, (I assume) they would be more than willing to baby sit for a day.
Unfortunately, every home game I seemingly attend, we lose. I honestly can't recall the last time I've witnessed VT win at home... and I actually go to A LOT of home games.
I'm just tired of the effort of throwing large tailgates, coordinating guests, buying surplus tickets, and then having to apologize when we shit the bed
That's why I picked the W&M game to attend this year. I hadn't seen VT win at Lane since GT 2012. (I was there for Marshall 2013 but the rain chased me off early.) I'd been to 2014 Miami, 2015 OSU, and 2017 Clemson.
I didn't want to touch anything that could come close to a "big" game.
I think I misspoke... I was physically present for the miracle that was PITT last year, mentally, that game drove me to drink too much to be "there". Still, a game in my mind we lost, but did win.
Last convincing conference win at home, that I was there for would have to be... (after research) I still can't say. I go to about 4 games a year and I can't remember a conference win, that's pretty sad....
Agree with worst, but I can't say I'm puzzled, at all. We don't have a good defense this year ---- at ALL. We can't stop a good running team - at All. we are decimated. I love the team, but every game is a dogfight from her out.
I would disagree.
I flew half way across the globe (Guam) to be here at this game.
Am I disappointed that we lost...? Yes.
Am I going to stop going to games because we lost one game...? No.
You know why? Because I'm a fucking Hokie through and through. I don't give up on my team after one bad loss. Pick up your poopie pants, put your big boy pants on and get back to rooting for the Hokies. Stop being such a suck ass.
Edit: Was supposed to be posted to SoupHokie's comment above.
I'm not going to stop going to games either but we have gotten routed in all three losses this year two being at home and two being to inferior opponents. Honestly at this point I don't know if I can even call them inferior opponents anymore.
People are rooting for them. That's why they're so upset. This team is terrible, and the staff isn't impressing one either, on the field, or on the recruiting trail. It would be super easy to just be apathetic and walk away right now.
I'm not swearing off going to all games in the future, but I'm mainly saying that my track record while watching games in Lane have all been losses the last 4 years.
Life changes, priorities change. I'll still watch every game on TV but I've noticed it's far less emotionally stressful to watch us lose on TV than when I'm standing in the stadium watching the team get rammed up the ass every time I purchase tickets.
Plus, I don't want my future kid's first game experience to be a loss (superstitions), it might be best to wait a few years until this team matures.
You mean "IF"
I am glad I do not go to this one. I have not been in two years.
Same situation, 100% agree
(Replying to Soup)
After ODU I said to a friend that the team was Bud and a bunch of losers. Now I don't know what to think. It seems they've phoned in the rest of the season and I think I will do the same. Time to roll out the basketballs eh?
Also, I see no reason for people to show up to home games if every meaningful one is just gonna be another egg. Extremely disheartening and promotes apathy like nothing else.
I splurged and bought tickets from a season ticket holder in the higher donation section on the 50 and down close to the field. I heard many comments from people around me that this stuff was not worth coming to see. I was happy to go with the family but we left early cause I couldn't take it anymore.
Just go 0-1 next week.
can't wait to be traveling from California to Blacksburg next week to see us lose another one :(
Oh don't worry we will win that one...it's Hokie football science!
We're undefeated coming off losses this year.
Where in California do you live? I'm in SF.
Luckily I was driving from SF to Monterey and was able to watch the second half at my brother's in fast forward (after they scored at will twice).
I live in SF too! Do you go to Bus Stop to watch games?
Lmao
I love my Hokies
I'm...
Gonna stay away from tkp for a lil bit, till the negativity resides.
See ya next spring! /S give her a few days this is gonna be rough
Oh come on...
Bruh the negativity has been residing for some time.
[yes I know you meant subsides]
Fuck. Good catch. Haha
The offensive staff needs a hard look by someone not named Fuente. His relationships are too deep and too close to be objective. Most of his staff originated at Illinois St, which is an FCS team.
If the bowl streak ends and we lose to UVA, Whit is going to be forced to make changes. This program needs money and the purses are going to tighten and there is not a single excuse in the world that is going to open them back up. In year three, investments in the football program do not look fruitful.
Someone took a lot of flak for basically saying we're an entrance.... Well... They're not far off. Lane is not scary.
And let's be honest. Who's offense is "gimmicky" now? Misdirection. Make a man miss. That's all great but you know what GT did? They just knocked us over. They didn't even try to fake a pass. No need.
Maybe Lane is not scary because of people throwing paper airplanes on the field every other minute
No. No its because we are bad.
BINGO
I'm going to openly vent not about the game, but about the situation Whit has created within our football program. He tells Bud he's not seriously considered for the head job, but given special treatment to vet the new guy. Fuente comes in with the added pressure of having to be the boss over one of the longest tenured and most respected coordinators in college football. He lets him do his thing, Fu does his thing. In no world ever does a ship with two captains work. Bad, bad dynamic.
Bud gets all this credit for staying but he has taken coaching interviews at of all places WVU
also at Pitt like 4 times and there was the Delaware Rumor. Bud wants to coach but no their school has hired him so he has stayed at Tech
Excited to see what the excuses are from the predicable crowd. Is it
Can't wait.
Congratulations?
It certainly isn't the coaches fault, that's for sure. Why in the world would they be held accountable for this absolutely ass product?
Beats me chief. I'm just some guy on the internet.
How about lack of talent?
That's clear and that's on the coaches.
via GIPHY
Good thing this isn't a trophy game. /s
Oh and IIRC from another thread, this is only the second team (Miami, GT) to beat VT in Lane three consecutive visits.
I know no one wants to hear this, but the D will not be much better next year and possibly the year after that. We lose Walker and Mihota next year. And no one coming back not named Ashby has shown any sort of ability to get off blocks, tackle, or cover.
Next year is year 4 for Fuente. If the offense doesn't take a major step forward, I would think people would be pressing Whit for answers about the future of the program.
I think anyone contributing big $$$ started doing that after ODU. Hell, they probably started after GT last year.
.
Reasonable person has logged on.
I'm going to see that ball doink off of Savoy's facemask in my sleep.
I knew instantly when that happened that we were in big trouble, even though we were up at the time.
He didn't even have the body language of a punt returner. He looked like a guy who saw a guy return a punt once and was trying to mimic it. His posture and hands were all wrong.
How hard is it to understand that this is a very weak Hokie team. You can dig up the reasons why - blame recruiting, loss to the NFL, etc. But let's not freak on the actual coaching right now IMO - WE HAVE a weak team. That is it.
Preach
Agreed. But coaching is also recruiting
The main job of coaches is to recruit
Fuente needs to see the writing on the wall here.
The cupboard is bare at DL due to YEARS of poor recruiting---Wiles needs to go if you ever want to see an uptick in DL recruiting.
The cupboard is even more bare at CB, but that is at least partially explainable by multiple unexpected departures and injuries.
Cornelson minus Jerod Evans = Brian Stinespring. Maybe he'd like a job at another D-I program in VA just like B.S.? Maybe ODU?? That way, if they ever get a lead on us again, you can be assured that they will abruptly stop doing whatever was working on offense.
So you mean all we need is Tyrod Taylor?
So disappointed but didn't think we were gonna win this game anyways. Didn't think it would be this bad t didn't think we would win.
I'm sick of people bashing players and calling them trash. And saying we have no talent and whit needs to burn the program to the ground.
Grow th f up and come up with some decent arguments. Yes tackling sucked. Yes playing off the line was a bit baffling as they only threW it twice. That doesn't make walker and dax trash. There are complaints to be made I'm not saying that but calling players trash is bs.
None of you who call them talentless could even sniff playing for that team. Calm down and bring an actual argument instead of name calling.
Those people should be embarrassed of themselves, grow up.
I'm out until next week.
I agree with all of what you said with the exception of the talent issue, at least on the defensive side of the ball. There is very little talent on that side of the ball outside of the LB group.
Gaines is still my homeboy. But our defensive secondary is scary bad. Like, unique combination of lack of talent plus poor coaching bad.
I never played football, I probably could have / should have with my size and athleticism, but your argument makes little sense.
If you're good enough to make that team, or any collegiate team, yet you lack the talent to produce positive results...
= Trash
Would love a translation of this.
If you're good enough to make a collegiate team, you should be good enough to mature and be coached into producing positive results on the field...
Not rocket science...
Without the sarcasm I guess I'd love to know what exactly makes little sense in what I said.
I'm still not sure what you are asking so I have nothing else to give you.
The DL and secondary legitimately have bad players getting significant minutes. That's not really name calling. They're not good.
What's wrong with saying the D lacks talent? I think that's the reality. I am not here to blame Bud. He is doing the best he can. But he has a group of scrubs who got bulldozed by GT. That's not complaining. That's reality
To some people every player is perfect because "they're just kids" and they just need more time
No "some people" said it's not cool to call out players for saying they have no pride. You don't think they have pride, watch the film. They played every down and didn't quit (they didn't make every play or execute, but they didn't quit).
You wanna call them out, go ahead. I'm sure Ricky, Vinny or Ashby would love to hear you tell them to their face they have no pride.
We have talent it's just young. Watts Farley and Ladler will all be really good you can book it. It's their first season on the field. I also believe in Devon Hunter who is hopefully more polished after a redshirt year. We do not lack talent in the secondary. For linebacker we're also loaded but none of the guys have more than a year and a half in the program!
Only place you can argue that is the defensive line for which I'd have to agree. That's a whole nother can of worms and maybe worth another thread. But I will say that Mihota is an end and needs to lose weight both for this year and any nfl future.
I do have a problem with requiring so many years of development. The kind of talent we need to achieve the results we want pretty much means two years of starting and out. Do you see any of our first year starters going to the NFL after next year? I don't.
I get GT is a tough offense to defend but I'm not betting on the defense looking awesome against BC in a week and a few days.
Go read some of French's analysis and tell me where you really think the talent is. I'm not convinced the future is anything more than a flatline.
I have nothing to say except that I'm that much more pissed off after sitting beside Georgia Tech's band in the SEZ and having a drunk UVA fan behind me that felt the need to yell she "didn't fucking care about being at the game" after every down. I hate everything right now.
Why do always have the opposing band come? Swear we could play Hawaii and the band would come.
It was awful. I've done band in high school and some at college and the rule has always been to never play over another band. They were so rude. We seriously could not hear our band play after we got first downs and everyone was so frustrated. Them being up there was very unnecessary.
It's pretty much every visiting band plays over our bands at some point.
Which is inexcusable considering someone on their band staff should be given a headset to coordinate with our gameday folks.
Why would a UVa fan go to that game?
I mean, they don't even go to their own games.
We sat next to each other -ish... Would've been nice to meet you.
I'm tired of Bud getting a pass in regards to recruiting. He's been on the job in some capacity for 30+ years. The lack of depth ultimately falls on his shoulders.
Frank let him (and candidly the rest of the staff) coast when it came to recruiting and it's showing now.
The man is a damn good defensive mind, one of the best ever but he's never gotten his fair share of criticism for the overall lack of talent on his side of the ball.
This has always been the elephant in the room to me. How can the best in the game not simply show up to your house after his body of work and convince you to come play a few years then get drafted?
That question definitely looms large.
It is possible with the way the game has changed that players want to see success on the other side of the ball.
My guess is that getting drafted is easier if your team is winning conference championships and potentially going to the CFP.
My vent:
1) I feared the game was over when GT finally punted after we should've recovered that fumble and was proved to be correct.
2) I don't buy this "Our defense is young and inexperienced and lost our whole secondary" bullshit. This is game #7 with one of the best defensive coordinators in the world. So this is the best we've got against GT?
3) Why do we make poor defenses look good? I told a good buddy of mine after that third TD that this wasn't sustainable and obviously it wasn't. We still are fundamentally flawed with our play-calling on offense when our back is against the wall.
I've said this before and I'll say it again. Once the defense adjusts we have no answer. So we can beat teams with sub-par DCs. Any team with a credible DC will beat us.
Yep. And to add that, when did we ever get penetration and give GT negative plays? Not many times. The times we did, we either gave it away or did nothing with the ball. GT got AT LEAST 6 yards on average (may have been more) pp. I told Warthog at halftime that I didn't think there was anything we could do at halftime defensively to make a difference. There are just too many fundamental problems. I/we were all right.
And we have no depth. Ladler getting ejected pretty much ended the game for us. I don't think I saw Hewitt back in either after the injury. He was begging to get a push. Mihota is big but he's got to be careful. The commentators mentioned him hitting the wrong gap on a play. I can only imagine he had a flashback to being a DE.
Speaking of DEs. I saw a really weird play where both DE's were in on what looked like an inside run. They made the stop but I swear the GT OC saw that and started burning us on the outside.
I'm not trying to be a Corn apologist here, but I really didn't have a problem with the playcalling. How many yards did Tre Turner leave on the field with drops? Great play call, failed execution. Same with Kumah's offensive P.I. call, fine call that just got fucked by the execution. I never felt like GT's defense really knew what was about to come at them. We shot ourselves in the foot more offensively than the GT defense stopped us.
Now, just to clarify, consistently poor execution can be blamed on the coaches. My point isn't to give the coaching staff a pass but rather to say it wasn't the playcalling in my eyes.
Some of the stats support what you are saying.
Willis went 15-22 2 TDs and 0 INTs. That's a completion rate of 68%. Average yards per pass were 9.1 and average yards per rushing attempt were 4.9. Those are respectable numbers. Time of possession looked like GT 42:18 VT 17:42.
I suppose there was zero room for error anywhere.
Good points.
Agreed. Clemson has lost 7 guys on defense two years in a row. The result? They are 7-0 this year and defense is superb.
They didn't though. They RETURNED 7 starters or co starters from last years defense to this years.
This is what I get for going to an Ohio State bar and laughing at them last Saturday
Fuente losses where he was completely dunked on in embarrassing fashion:
-Tennessee 2016
-Clemson 2017
-Miami 2017
-ODU 2018
-ND 2018
-GT 2018
Fuente losses that were still embarrassing and carry shame but were at least close:
-Syracuse 2016
-GT 2016
-GT 2017
Conversely, Fuente wins that were actually impressive (wins that I consider something more than just "doing what is expected" for a program of our caliber):
-Arkansas 2016
-WVU 2017
-FSU 2018
We're approaching the end of year three and those lists are growing at the opposite rates from what they should
No disrespect, but I'd put that win against Arkansas in the bowl game in the "Games you should win" category. The way we came back was impressive, but it doesn't negate the fact that it shouldn't have had to be that way.
I tend to agree and I almost didn't put it there. But it was a win against a real P5 team in a pretty legitimate bowl in the postseason.
And pretty much the whole point of my post was to show that we're not improving. That game was one of very few instances that made me feel like we WERE improving so I felt the need to throw him a bone.
But yeah, honestly none of those three games are games to hang out hats on. Arkansas for the reasons you said, FSU is terrible and WVU last year wound up not being that great either. Fuente has a whole lot of losses that should almost NEVER happen to a team as good as we should be and no real statement wins to speak of to balance it. They're only "impressive wins" to us because the bar keeps getting lower and lower.
Fair. Good points and good post.
As I recall, that WVU team went 7-4 or 6-5 or something.
FSU this year might be a bowl team. 6 wins at best.
None of the games you listed, in retrospect, moved the needle for our program. At all.
Exactly. They're the only wins we have that are any better than beating marginal ACC coastal opponents and FCS teams. And even at that, they're unimpressive to any other program that aspires to be anywhere near the Top 25.
Meanwhile Fuente is racking up more and more "all time embarrassing losses" each year.
Might wanna add the win in South Bend 2017. Not a win to hang the hat on but still a nice win.
We don't need to go make stuff up now.
Wasn't ND like 3-9 that year lol. I'm embarrassed to add that to the list of nice wins. I think we all should. Just because they are ND doesnt mean they are a good win.
Right now, it's looking like the last time we lost to a team by this much was in 2007 against LSU. But that LSU team was ranked #2 in the country. The other times we lost by 28 were in 2011 to #21 Clemson and in 2010 to #5 Stanford.
We are in waters that we, as a program, haven't been in a long, long time.
[ mod edit: this is too far and disturbing ]
Never expected to see Papa Franku on TKP.
Edit: yeah that was a little too much for this site.
This is wrong
thanks VTGM for taking down the original image
Come to me, my weak and weary children. Shower me with your dislikes, let it all out bois
I find this to be more disturbing than the guy singing into his shotgun...but I'm very fragile right now
What is happening. I know we're young...but this football team is not what Fuente says. We are not Hard. We are not Smart. We are not tough. We just got punched in the mouth. We didn't get outschemed. We didn't even really lose to the triple option. We lost because of lack of heart and discipline and effort.
I am embarrassed. What in the world is this football team and staff doing? Something is rotten in Denmark. It started in the off-season with all the dismissals and it continues in half assed effort on the field. I'm not saying coaching changes need to occur, but Whit, Justin, Bud and the rest need to take a hard look in the mirror. This is very troubling and I don't know what the solution is. No one seems to.
It always seems like football is much more fun than this whenever it's summertime.
Okay you edgelords talking about firing foster and fuente. Who are you hiring to Virginia tech to take their place? How much money are you willing to donate to try to buy up?
I don't mind people analyzing the game talking about how we screwed up including the coaches but quit acting like we are going to blow up our staff and that is going to make things better.
Let's be realistic here. Put up or shut up imho. And that's not just you. It's the entire alumni base. It's not going to happen overnight one way or the other.
2 years from now when this team is playing acccg this post will age well.
Many of us are giving signifiant amounts, and that's why we're so frustrated.
Leg for you and I hear you. That's why I mentioned it's a base as a whole.
It's just the reality of the situation. And the only way it changes is if you stick It out and pay up.
Our fan base is not used to coaching changes let's be realistic. Maybe I was better prepared for this not growing up as a VT fan.
Im giving us 3 more years don't care what any of you see. If that plays out bad Then it's time to look at coaching changes. I've seen the opposite side of it and how it plays out.
Maybe not changes at the Fuente level but changes will be needed.
I think Fuente has a lot of positives and can be a great head coach but I also think he has some tough decisions to make to take the program to the next level. Dabo had to make them. All coaches have to make them. I'm not convinced that FBS programs are lining up to hire Cornelson away as an OC or HC. If other teams aren't coming after your assistant coaches you may need better assistant coaches.
What's funny is I specifically remember posts expressing concern about teams hiring away Corny, and Fuente for that matter, during and after year one of the Fuente era.
I don't think Fuente needs to go, but I do think he needs to surround himself with a more capable staff. Bringing his guys and really not entertaining the thought of any outsiders until his hand was forced is very disappointing and concerning. Neither Mitchell nor Nix are inspiring hires, and there hasn't been the focus on recruiting that needs to be there at this level to continue to be successful.
I hear you. And it remains to be seen. HC is a ceo position. I think this is a more reasonable approach And at this point i trust fuente to figure it out because that's what we pay him to do.
As of last year's salaries
To save money Wisconsin, Miss State, Utah, West Virginia, K State and NC state all spent less on Asst Salaries than VT
Add in VT new facilities and football culture we should be able to hire and get better results. Granted Wisc has a good top 10 history on defense and Miss State is currently #5 and last year was #10
For all that money we have had 2 Top 10 defenses since the 2008 season. last time was 2013
Honestly, if we lose to UVA this year and break the streak, we deserve it. If something like that is what it takes to break the status quo/still slow decline of this program, then so be it. I'm tired of the spin and false hope. We are no closer to where we want to be than we were at the end of 2015.
Fuente looks clueless. Everyone always excuses that away with the "quiet=intelligence" argument. I honestly don't think anything is going through his head. If you think this team is weak, look at the top.
To add, hiring friends is bad business. I'm sure Bud and co are waiting on the offense they were promised. I'm sure Fuente and friends are waiting on the defense they were promised. If we lose to UVA this year (we will, by a lot), something will have to give. These two sides are going to get farther apart until Fuente lets his FCS buddies walk or Bud takes a job elsewhere. And does anyone have confidence that Fuente will bring in a competent DC to replace Bud?
In 2011 we were ranked 35th in Offense so the waiting for the offense should be changed to
Fu waiting for the Defense. In 2013 we were 102nd in Offense
The FCS staff stuff is something I have mentioned before and is concerning. Let's not forget before Galen Scott's issues he was Co-DC. Does that sound right to anyone? Scott = Foster?
Great Point. Anyone has been around remembers Beamer being called into Dave Braines office after the 92 season debacle when it looks like we were starting to improve and Dave telling Frank this game is not about friends and you have to make changes on your staff if you're going to remain coach... Frank let a bunch of his old Murray State assistants go and the following year he turned it all around
Been watching tech since the sixties. Seen disappointing games naturally. This game tonight ranks right up there. I know we're young. Dropping punts and passes and getting pushed 5 yards back on every play is beyond frustrating. It's not being ready to play. Lack of focus. Not being aggressive and being passive instead is weak. Best thing all night is going for it on fourth down. Coach was aggressive at least. Wish players were prepared. Maybe players will get pissed. I'd be happier with that at least.
I don't feel that disappointed this game maybe I just knew with how young our defense is.
I echo your sentiment "Maybe players will get pissed. I'd be happier with that at least."
I would love to see any passion from anyone on the field.
How about the offense, scoring once after halftime?
Last time a player got pissed he got kicked off the team (Trevon Hill)
Uhhhh no. Trevon's dismissal was a good bit more than "getting pissed off". It was a series of things that happened.
One 2nd half TD vs a bad GT team. Cool.
No halftime adjustment from Bud. Cool.
I'll be shocked if we make a bowl. Happy, but shocked
Ah this post game radio show should be fun!
started and ended with the manhandling of our DL...PJ executes a vintage Joe Frazier
This defense is afraid to get aggressive and make a play plain as that no attempts to make a big play just on their heels constantly
Man I am just so bummed. I expected an up and down season this year. I expected some mistakes. I expected some growing pains.
But for growing pains, you need to grow. This team has not gotten better. It very well may have gotten worse. And the coaching staff is at a loss as to how to stop the bleeding. They turtle up on offense once something goes wrong. They don't adjust on defense.
It's at the point where I feel like I have to assume we'll be nothing more than a 6-6 program going forward at best with this coaching staff and recruiting ability.
I am tired about talking about youth and growing pains. VT got smashed. Our guys just lack talent. This is not a growth issue. Our guys are just mediocre
Okay so it's a talent issue just because you're tired of talking about youth and growing pains?
7 of our starting 11 on defense hadn't played a down fo college football before this year. One only had a few plays last year, and another one tore his ACL, switched positions, and gained 40 lbs during the off-season. Only ONE of our players on defense is a starter from last year who didn't have a major injury (and even he has been banged up a bit this year). Talent is not our problem
Thank you so much for putting that in one post. I'm with this guy.
The piece Im still wondering about is QB situation settling in next few years and timing. I heard Dwayne Lawson may transfer
dude, thank you. being upset/impatient doesn't injustify the explanation and reality that long made sense before it. we walked into this game with a YOUNG defense that we KNEW had holes. Our D is a mess, has been. I am absolutely pissed at how tonight went but the result doesn't suddenly wipe away reality. We can't just emotion our way to being better as a fan base, much like anything in life. I didn't walk into my first shit ass job after college and piss and moan until I got a raise, it takes time, work, blood, sweat, and tears. This team is working. Just because "we don't have time" doesn't erase the fact that it will take it to improve. Let's let these kids fucking work, lets let THE STAFF fucking work. Whit isn't an idiot. Fuente isn't an idiot. Bud isn't an idiot. It will come.
I could actually go for a DC vent-thread right now. Like him or not, my boy has more X's and O's knowledge and realism that most people. Don't @ me.
I've yet to see true X's and O's knowledge get downvoted on this site. The other stuff, yeah...
DC gets downvoted because of his 1) reputation and 2) people that gang up and downvote him no matter what he says. He's gotten downvoted by literally repeating team stats from a game. He's also explained those stats in a way that rosy-eyed fans don't appreciate. He's raw, but he's right. So ya, there's been plenty of true X's and O's knowledge downvoted on this site.
I've seen stuff downvoted from him in the past that had nothing to do with X's and O's.
It was just pure frustration, and not really voiced all that well.
Just sayin'.
I haven't looked at his thread tonight, though.
Well, ya. But that wasn't what we were talking about. The exact opposite actually.
Well, no.
I'm saying that he sometimes gets downvoted because of what he actually says or the unbearably negative tone of his comments. Not for the reasons you mentioned.
He may well be a brilliant X's and O's guy, and there are specific instances where that brilliance doesn't shine through. This site generally rewards well thought-out commentary. Even if people disagree, they tend to respect a well-thought out and presented comment.
Okay, I see what you mean but that's not how you presented it. We'll chalk that up to semantics.
Secondly, you're a smart guy Key and with all due respect you and I both know your last sentence is bullshit. The level of hypocrisy and perceived superiority on this site is laughable. You have many respectful and well thought out comments but a lot of people you defend do not. DC gets blitzed because of his reputation and some comments that should indeed be downvoted. However, there's an awful lot of people that don't respect his well thought-out comments because they refuse to believe an inevitable reality about the state of our program or Betsy-forbid one of our staff members.
Amen amen amen!
Nothing against DC, but I just didn't think I could let your comment slide. There are a few posters here who feel the need to make negative comments when things aren't so bad, and they get downvoted as a result. Negative screed about the players or coaching staff will only be tolerated to a certain extent.
I have to say that at this point, negative commentary may be more or less covered, as some is warranted. The team isn't playing well. Players can't catch the ball or make tackles. Our team is giving up ridiculous numbers of penalties (particularly personal fouls), and making other teams look like THEY are the ones with discipline by comparison. This is a team built on defense, and our defense looks lost at times. You can't regularly give up 4 yards per carry and expect to win a game.
I have a feeling some of it will click together at a certain point, but it sure hasn't happened yet. I don't think anyone will get blasted for pointing that out in a respectful way.
Well, first of all, I don't appreciate you saying "I just don't think I could let your comment slide" like I said something wrong. If you disagree, that's okay, but I didn't say anything wrong. Moving on...
Here's my main point about your reply. Your comment: There are a few posters here who feel the need to make negative comments when things aren't so bad, and they get downvoted as a result.
Really? Who says people can't make negative comments? This is a fan forum. And to get downvoted because of that? Wow Key, for someone who flaunts the CG so much, you sure haven't done your research on this. If he calls someone a bad name, sure downvote him. But to "make negative comments when things aren't so bad and get downvoted as a result"? Why don't you get with Joe and re-write the CG because I sure haven't read anywhere where there's something wrong with that.
I agree with your overall point that people piled on DC.
That being said here are a few relevant community guidelines:
Don't post threads with the sole purpose of riling people up. For instance, "ESPN just said ______ about us - they suck!", "Bleacher Report sucks!", etc. are not worthy of topics \ threads.
Don't start a new topic to rant.
I think there were pretty decent arguments that a lot of the recent stuff he got down voted for violated those rules.
Again, I didn't downvote dc and am glad he's back but let's also not rewrite history.
Ernest,
And I don't appreciate my statements being called "false". Especially when they're not. There's nothing I said here that's not 100% true.
Let's try and not exaggerate here. You said yourself that DC deserved some downvotes. So are you really complaining not about the downvotes, but the quantity? You're trying to assess the motivations of people downvoting, instead of looking at the more obvious reason. It's like when someone gets caught speeding for the 10th time, and thinks "Wow, that cop really didn't like me".
That DC is still around is an indication that it's not all bad. But there is a lesson in there somewhere, and it's not that DC got picked on. It's that he crossed some kind of line at some point. I'm trying to be helpful here. I really don't want to re-litigate.
Your statement about him never getting downvoted because of saying something about X's and O's is false. I'm not insulting you, it's just that statement is false because I've seen it happen. Sorry you don't appreciate that; don't take it so personally.
We're not going to see eye to eye on this and every time I make my point you twist it ever so slightly. I'm done with this, let's move on.
Try re-reading the comment.
I didn't say he NEVER got downvoted for saying something about X's and O's. I said that I've seen him downvoted in other instances, that had nothing to do with X's and O's.
Those are two different statements. That's why I felt the need to correct your interpretation (twice, now).
I think my comment was worded correctly, but please accept this clarification:
The fact is that DC has been downvoted in situations when he deserves it. If there are situations where he's downvoted unfairly, that should be pointed out on the spot. DC is still here because people see the value of his commentary. That's not a blank check to write whatever screed he wants about the program. If he purposefully pushes people's buttons, he may lose some turkey legs over it. Substance is important, but so is civility. To the other posters, to the players, and to the staff.
Does that mean you can't complain or say negative comments? No. But if you take it too far in the eyes of the other people here, they may react. Believe it or not, there are some thoughts you should keep to yourself.
Do we really need to keep discussing this? I thought this was resolved. The answer hasn't changed.
Do we really need to keep discussing this? No. I was done, but if you want to keep bringing it up I could go on forever. Btw, putting your post in bold doesn't drive home your point anymore. I told you I saw where you were coming from but we were talking about separate things earlier. I'm telling you man, this isn't the first time I've gotten into an argument with you and instead of you sticking to the underlying point, you change it. Follow the red ball. All I've been saying is that he has gotten downvoted for sticking to X's and O's and you have adamantly argued that's not true. Since I've seen it multiple times, I said yes, it is true.
Also, please stop acting like you're correcting me. "Correcting your interpretation" is an oxymoron anyway. You're not and it's condescending.
Maybe we actually agree, so why are you talking around my comment? I'm just correcting your statement that said my comment was false.
These two comments can exist in the same logic universe:
"He got downvoted on a comment that was X's and O's"
"He has also been downvoted on a comment that wasn't X's and O's."
Oddly, they can both be true.
Look, we're both not doing a great job of seeing the underlying points we're trying to convey to each other and that's okay. As you stated, we probably do agree on a lot of things regarding this; probably like 80% of it. I apologize that my comment about your statement being "false" rubbed you the wrong way. Honestly, your sometimes scolding and matter-of-fact tone rubs me the wrong way. More than anything, I just want to move on. You've got great insight and I'd like to think that I offer some good insight too. We've all had a rough 12 hours but we're still on the same team here.
Let's play that game where we have to say one nice thing about the other. I'll go first. I'm SUPER jealous you live near Destin. That's my paradise down there.
Well, I'm a little disappointed you didn't want to play my game, but if this is the best I'm gonna get, we'll roll on.
It was well-intentioned. Try this one.
Haha, no I meant giving each other a compliment. But it's all good really, I was just kidding with you. All good, Key.
ok fair enough. i'd agree that overall he got a very harsh treatment, even made that point threads ago. BUT 1) the reputation was earned 2) stats are not X's and O's. Let's not hide behind semantics and act like people (Hokie fans) weren't clearly antagonized by his clearly inflammatory commentary in "a way that rosy-eyed fans don't appreciate."
Agreed. I think we're probably circling around a lot of similar points here, but it's hard to compartmentalize.
My main point was that a lot of his downvotes came from him telling the truth. But to address your counterpoint:
1) You shouldn't be downvoting someone based on their reputation. Do it on a comment-by-comment basis.
2) I was talking about semantics because of what Key said. He said that DC hadn't been downvoted because of X's and O's which is false. Irrelevant to your post.
honestly you're right. i'm definitely guilty in taking my previous bias into how i evaluate previous posts, specifically DC. at the end of the day i really enjoy this site and community and being able to discuss tech football with likeminded folk. i think we all just take it as a slight when we feel someone else goes against that(not saying that's true just how it's interpreted). an emotional loss like this brings out the worst in me, and probably others. appreciate you being someone who keeps it all in balance.
All good man. I'm as emotional as the next Hokie when we lose. Thanks for keeping it civil. I'll toast my last Rum and Tonic for the night to you.
cheers bro, but jesus christ rum and tonic? just when i thought it was over!
Haha, every time I make one my fiance asks me if I'm making "that pine tree drink again". It does kinda smell like pine needles.
The only thing I can find remotely bearable with tonic water is gin. And a vodka tonic just tastes like tonic until you're suddenly drunk.
I oddly like tonic water dating back to my cross country days when I drank it to get rid of stitch cramps, so I don't really try to mask the taste. However, I think that Gin and Tonic's taste more like tonic water than Rum and Tonic's. Try it with a squeeze of lime and I think it tastes like a Sierra Mist.
Edit: I still cannot get over the fact that we had a extra week to prepare for this game.
Do we even prepare? I feel like every game for the past 3 years we are comically unprepared any time there's even a hint of resistance from the other team
Prepare?!! When you have no talent how can you prepare?
This is an absolute cop out excuse. What talent is on the UCF team that beat Auburn? And don't tell me "But they play in the American!" because the Coastal ain't much better than the teams they play.
At some point you gotta put what you have on the field in the best position to win, and I haven't seen anywhere near that from the staff
I give Fuente one more year before I get into full "lack of confidence" mode. By all rights, this should have been a "rebuilding" year, but I certainly didn't quite envision this level of ineptitude. The mistakes and poor discipline are particularly jarring this far into the season, regardless of "youth."
I do agree with others that some of his FCS buddies *cough, Cornelson, cough* look way over their heads at this level and would probably be better suited as an analyst.
Hopefully things don't start sliding from a Recruting standpoint and we can hold the class we have together to December.
With regards to Recruiting; when you compare the depth and caliber of players we are bringing in on OL vs. DL you will see what one of the major problems has been and continues to be.
Here's another thing that's scary to think about---the number of player dismissals this season could be greater than the number of wins on the field.
Then again we run into the issue of who's his QB? Is it another year where he has a first year qb with QP? He seems to be the savior so do we give him another year to develop him?
If you know your team is going to suck this year (which the coaches hinted at lowering expectations before the season), why not work on developing your QB of the future now? This has to be the absolute ideal time to bring in a new QB and get them experience because expectations could not possibly be any lower at this point. Look at all of the freshmen seeing the field this year. They're going to be ready to ball next year/year after while we're stuck with a new QB and the growing pains that come with that.
Year 1: New coach, not my players.
Year 2: First year with my new players, so rebuilding year.
Year 3: Getting rid of all the old players so here's another rebuilding year.
Year 4: Finally have mostly my players, so this will be the year.
Year 5: We need a new QB now, time to rebuild again.
Year 6: Sorry we suck, still rebuilding.
Year 7: Bud retires, new DC, time to rebuild on defense.
Just like campus, this team is always going to be rebuilding apparently.
Man I agree with you. I asked Andy Bitter yesterday during a live Q&A if Fuente should be looking at any changes in staff at the end of this season due to severe disparities in pedigree. Bitter told me that "Fuente said Cornelsen was one of the up and comer Offiensive Coordinators in America." Well ya, Andy, my dad told me I was the best soccer player in America.
Well, Brad, up & fuckin' come already.
It's year three. "Up and coming" coordinators coach in G5. They get the sorts of jobs that you have right now.
I'm not calling for a coaching change, but I am calling for the offensive braintrust to join us here in the Atlantic Coast Conference.
This isn't Memphis.
(who could totally beat us right now, by the way)
Amen brotha.
I'm in full lack of confidence mode now, and another year like this should be hot seat. The guy has drove off fan access, drove off the media, kicked loads of players off the team, and assured us we are on track to being national contenders. We are no better than we were before he got here. Still play sloppy and undisciplined. Recruiting has improved to only about where we have ever been at our best (which isn't necessarily great). There are still massive holes in our roster that I don't see how he will fix in another year or two (DT, CB, RB in particular). And I still haven't seen the offensive/qb guru we were promised. If anything it's like he asks his starter to take a blood oath that they will obey his commands and not turn the ball over.
Sorry, but I'm just not sold on the guy. And as bad as tonight was, we lost to f'ing ODU. Absolutely unforgivable. An up and coming program doesn't shit the bed like this. He needs to either take control of this program and make some hard decisions, or he should prepare to look elsewhere. Not satisfied.
Preach.
I've been taking homer VT bets all season so I took the 3.5 points for GT because I knew our defense couldn't stop them. I'm sad that I could have taken them by 21 and still won money.
I took the moneyline, Might as well be happy either way
Where is DC. I need more DC in my life right now.
Yep that was fun back to expecting losses from here on out and waiting till next year. Sorry ass team just look mentally fragile, its one thing to talk about that and expect it, but watching it is different.
Fuente isnt going to be fired regardless of what happens. I hope he does a lot of reflection though. Bud isnt either. Neither are probably on the hot seat, Bud is safe till he wants to go, and Fuente realistically probably has this year, and all of next year till he is in real danger of being fired.
'Hard Smart Tough' is in interesting slogan considering this team looks Soft, Dumb, and they at least tackle like a bunch of pussies.
Not to mention the corny ass "Go 1-0 this week" slogan when they're constantly unprepared and outcoached.
I am not sure we were out coached. We just don't have any talent
And we are playing a ton of freshmen and sophomores, who were recruited specifically by this coaching staff.
Hmm...
I think talent on defense is definitely a factor. But on offense? They have a few good series a game, but after the half they are outschemed constantly by mediocre or outright bad defenses.
I never felt like the GT defense outschemed us tonight. I felt like three drives got killed by two Tre Turner drops and an Eric Kumah offensive pass interference.
Let's all calm the hell down, go to bed, and wake up tomorrow having forgot about this game. Quit being fair weather fans. Things will get better. Good night!
i dont think you know what a fairweather fan means.....
FW fans don't get worked up about losing...they just leave and come back when times are good
"Vent Thread" anagrams to "Read Then TV".
Looks like we should just run through this thread once, then Netflix and chill.
Hate to say it but this is it for me. I'm 100% off of the Fuente train. I've been critical of individual decisions of his in the last, but this is the first time that I've sensed his loss of a handle on the program as a whole. I'm ready to move on.
We wouldn't be so lucky. Here's what I think is more plausible.
In true Virginia Tech fashion, Bud will step down at the end of the season as a courtesy to Fuente to save Fuente's job/save face with the fans. Then, in an incredibly expensive hire, Justin Fuente will poach a Big 12 defensive coordinator to take over the defense.
Edit: /s, kind of
No, it wouldn't be that expensive. It would be budget. We would have promoted G Scott, but since Fu's most entrusted man and heir to DC embezzled VT funds to go out on a lavish affair, we would probably just promote Nix or Wiles.
If Bud ever leaves, I want the dean of DBU back to coach D.
I said expensive because it would be like us to overspend on a person that's not suited for the job while underpaying the people that are actually performing well (see Cornelson's salary/Zohn Burden's salary).
Not comparing those two positions and their salaries directly, the OC should obviously make more than a RB coach, but Burden is the lowest paid person on staff and recruits better than anyone else.
LA, what are your overall thoughts on the direction of the program and dynamic between Fu and Bud? I just don't see this arrangement working out well long-term. It seems that Fu is the boss, but Bud gets special treatment. I also think Fu is hesitant to step on Bud's toes. It usually never works out well with two bosses.
I think the relationship between foster and Fuente is healthy. They seem to enjoy working together. I have no problems with Fu letting Bud run the defense.
What I do have a problem with is it seems like Fuente doesn't seem to have a firm grasp on the program. If someone asked me what his specialty is, I'm not sure I could tell you. Bud has 100% control of the defense, Corny (although poorly) coordinates the offense and calls the plays, and Shibest runs the ST. He's not an above average recruiter and doesn't seem overly interested in it anyways. To me, that only leaves roster management and establishment of culture. I've made my thoughts known on roster management and the use of redshirts in the past so I don't go there now, but I think this game really shows where we are from a culture standpoint. Can anyone even try and argue the fact that we've seemingly gotten less tough each year over the last three years? Dax and RW are the only two guys that showed any fire last night. We can't stop walking into backbreaking turnovers and horribly timed penalties. Almost every player on the field was signed under Fuente so he believes they supposedly fit his culture. His players may not have had enough time to be mature from a physicality and experience standpoint, but most of them have had 2-3 years under Fuente, which is more than enough time to accept his teachings and conform to the identity that he wants. So far, I'm not liking what I'm seeing.
Keene, Peoples, Ladler, Ashby you don't think any of them were playing with passion and heat last night?
I'll give you peoples. Do you really think that was a defense that played with passion? Did you see Ladler flying around like he was earlier in the season? Ashby isn't nearly the sure handed tackler he was back in September. Can't tell you how many times I saw him wrapping up a runner 6 yards past the line of scrimmage.
Regardless, you picked out one small point of my statement trying to poke holes in my argument and completely ignored my overall point. This is a team that lacks toughness, discipline, and direction. What is the purpose of a head coach if he isn't in charge of a specific phase, an above average recruiter, and his team doesn't have a clear and established culture?
That is your takeaway from his post?
Im not going to run around repeating myself as nauseum but I think I've talked about my opinions of supporting fuente and foster plenty.
What I will say is that fans like me are like the canary in the cole mine and when you start to see us getting nervous or flipping thats when you'll know the end is probably realistically getting near.
That being said I think there's still 2 additional seasons with chances and maybe seat warming by 3rd season after this one
If 2019 is anywhere close to 2018 and whit still doesn't make a change, then we have a bigger problem.
I'm not going to call 2018 done with... but if it goes how I expect it to yes I would expect to see some positive improvement next year.
If we get bombed by odu again sure I'll take that action
Maybe QP will get me hype.
Cons: To look that bad after a bye week is only one thing; piss poor coaching. Fuente is going backwards from when he started and people just need to wake up and realize Bud isn't what he use to be. He'll have some good games here or there, but his lunchpail crew is getting beat far more often than it use to. Both sides of the ball are bad. They can't coach up the youth and the youth isn't talented enough to hide any flaws. It's not like this football program has never had young players before and those teams managed to not have two embarrassing games in a season (ODU, this GT ass whipping) with plenty of the season left to go. The sideline needs to get its house in order.
Pros: Red Dead Redemption 2 comes out Friday
I am honestly still trying to figure out why this fanbase keeps expecting a dramatic turnaround. This team has shown you what it is. I dont really care where you want to assign the blame, but this team is not very good. I was expecting constant growth this year but we may not see it if the morale starts to plummet in the locker room. Either way, I still see young talent across the board. I plan to keep cheering and hoping for the best but there is no reason to set high expectations.
It may be a strange time for this comment considering Willis didn't have an awful night. But, I think this team needs a spark and the qb position may be where to provide it. QP has 3 more games to play without losing his shirt. If Hooker is ever going to be a legitimate qb now may be the time to find out. Just thoughts, but we need to do something offensively to help the D because I don't see the D changing dramatically at this point.
If we lose to FSU, then we (fans) aren't feeling so good about ourselves and thinking about sneaking into the CFP. Replace that with the Dick lunch loss to ODU and we aren't feeling so bad (even with the same record). We chalk this game up to a matchup problem for a team that lack experience.
I assume you meant "dick punch loss," but there might be no more appropriate metaphor for the ODU game than eating a dick.
I meant dick punch... thanks Steve Jobs for your damn autocorrect. Not going to edit...cause it make it funnier.
anyone think we are worse right now than we were even during the last few years of beamer? i dont remember ever being so outmatched to a bad team in a game even during the 6-6 seasons.
Is this any more embarrassing than 0-0 \o/?
shit man that one was close at least. i actually watched that entire game. i turned this one off in the fourth quarter.
Biggest difference I see is that we still had good defenses at the end of Beamer's tenure, and that kept games close. This year's defense is hot garbage, so there's gonna be more lopsided losses.
This is worse
I dunno the shit show 0-0 against one of the worst defenses we'll ever see. ...and we cheated to do it!
we still had a great hance to win it though. we were dominated this game and the odu game
Not that this excuses the ODU loss, but "dominated" is not the way to describe that result. We were tied with 7:15 left in the game. It was a shootout where we blinked first Had that game gone to OT, it would have been the Bizarro world version of 0-0 \o/.
i disagree. we were dominated on defense. similar to this gt game, they just could do whatever they wanted to move the ball. granted it wasnt as bad as the gt game but when you scale it down to the level of opponent it felt like domination
Oh, yeah, our D was dominated, no question.
Sorry, when I hear someone say an opponent dominated us, I'm thinking the implication is we got outplayed in all phases of the game.
Are we really going to fool ourselves into thinking being tied with ODU (who's only other win is a 3 point eek out over WKU) is not having our offense dominated? It absolutely is. Losing teams with bad defenses that limit your offense to 35 points are in fact dominating you. If we lost and the score was 49-42 then we just got shellacked. Let's not forget it was Larussas first start either.
Eh, agree to disagree. Our offense wasn't great against ODU, but I definitely wouldn't say the offense was dominated.
I mean I don't particularly think GT dominated our offense last night but I think we all agree that they still dominated us.
Another thing I want to vent on concerning the TH/ODU situation: obviously details are limited, and what may or may not have been done/said is inexcusable, but if an assistant member of the staff gets aggressive in my face challenging my fortitude after a complete and utter team and coaching failure like tonight, that MFer can go kick rocks. I want nothing like that in this program.
Way bigger than TH melting down post ODU.
Thank fucking Christ I got tomorrow off. I'm finna ride a blackout through the Florida-Georgia tailgate.
Tech has enjoyed consistency enjoyed by VERY few programs EVER historically.
Welcome to college football for the rest of the world. Auburn's been in the middle of this mode for quite some time. I think they share some parallels with us and are a good barometer of where our program could realistically end up. See, generational talent every so many decades swooping in and grabbing us chance at a natty? My grandpa waited like 50 years of cheering for them and they've been a serious program much longer than tech. I am hoping with less coaching carousel.
I share everyone's hopefull optImism that is in the keep looking up, trust fu/bud (bud was and is a god to me coaching wise), and start worrying down the road soon if we don't see a good year then have some realistic conversations
bruh, auburn is in a way better place. they recruit way better. they are 8 years removed from a chip. they are 5 years removed from playing in the natty. they played in the seccg last year.
Yes — I agree hence my comment "are a good barometer of where our program could realistically end up. "
And the natty was related to the generational talent. They are all still in denial that they aren't the next Alabama and want to buy coaches to get nattys now.
i very much disagree that we are a program that can ever be in a place that we are competing for a chip multiple times in a 10 year period.
we are one that might get lucky once every 25-30 years.
Thats just the reality of college football. There isnt room for many teams at the top.
I guess bcs era plus playoff era is too small of sample size to look at but if you look at that alone we have 1 appearance they have 2 ?
Granted they got robbed a time or two...
I hear where your coming from and I think that's what our upside looks like. I'm not saying I think that's the most likely outcome or our destiny by any means.
Truthfully I think we actually agree more than you think. It's college football, our chance is going to fall out of the sky like a Vick or cam not this slow and steady March to years of dominance and nattys. I think we are on the same page here.
Just have to stay interesting in between
For me, the unfortunate thing about college football is that it really is all about the money. You indirectly buy your way to the top. I dislike the NFL but any team can win it all. All teams have that shot to be the best. In CFB, 90% of the league has realistically no chance.
Luckily college basketball is set up to allow for many teams to compete. I would think that VT basketball probably has a better chance to big success than our football team. But when you aren't a Bama, OSU, ND, etc in cfb you are basically pushing a boulder up a mountain while they are taking a gondola.
I'm sitting here face palming at your comment... because it's true... and it is sometimes discouraging.
Whats even worse though is that even that money doesn't truely guarantee you but it does put you in that conversation and positions you better to pop. The flip side to balance is it sure as hell creates entitled fan bases. I live in Texas and know that Texas am has a deep big money spending network. I'd be curious to hear their conversations that go on and how they navigate things
Texas boosters wanted to fire Herman after the opening Md loss. Now they're in the top-10.
Texas A&M sorry if that wasn't clear.
I look at it as the same teams just rotate out who is great. Texas was down for awhile. FSU is down now. ND was down a bit. USC has been down for a bit. But they will rotate back in eventually and VT will just sit back and wait for their turn while the big dogs eat their fill.
1) The in-game strategy of our coaches is fine. The plays are good for the most part, and bud foster knows how to make the correct defensive assignments.
2) The players on the team currently are not very good for the most part, and happen to also be very young.
3) Given the massive losses from the team this past year for a variety of reasons, we are especially weak on gameday talent. The big question is, how much do you pin this CURRENT lack of talent on the field on Fuente and Foster and the other coaches? If you believe it is 100% due to their poor performance, than yes, we might as well start looking for new guys to lead. However, I tend to believe that we have had a perfect shit storm of occurrences that have led to the decimation of our team right now. I can only hope we regroup and get some better guys on the team. I still believe that they know how to coach - but they better figure out how to get some good players on the field.
Earlier in the season I would agree with this statement completely. But now I'm wondering if this is an accurate depiction of the situation. For beginners, I really don't think we have talented players on the defensive side of the ball (here's looking at the secondary in particular). And I also, as a "Monday morning QB", have major concerns about what I saw schematically last night on the defensive side of the ball.
I'm not a D1 football coach, so I'm always going to give those guys, and especially Bud, the benefit of the doubt. But how do you play 7 guys 3 to 4+ yards off the LOS all night long? They weren't moving downhill at all. I'm completely at a loss as it relates to the scheme last night.
That's exactly what I've been thinking.
Bud certainly could have schemed better, but man, how many times last night did we complain about the first man missing the tackle at the line of scrimmage. We allowed so many yards after contact last night it was insane. We dont have the players to execute plays properly.
I hope, and believe, that our players don't yet have the experience to execute plays properly - not that we don't have the players.
Yeah, there were lots of missed tackles. When combined with the personal fouls, it's very troublesome.
There is some room for technique improvement.
The VT D has forced just 7 punts in the past 3 games; about one stop per half.
That is just horrible.
Should probably note in the same stretch our D recovered 3 fumbles, had an interception and forced 3 turnovers on downs.
Is this turnover rate supposed to be a metric that shows the defense is performing better than 1 punt a half would indicate? These numbers are horrific no matter how they are viewed.
Your stat was misleading, I added context. The defense actually stopped double the number of drives than the number of punts they forced. That is significant.
Here is context of turnovers as if they are a stongsuit of the VT defense that is precluding opposing offenses from having to punt.
Clemson D
Louisville D
VT D Season
VT D Last 3 Games
The VT D is very similar to the Louisville D (that has only beaten Indiana State and Western Kentucky) for the season and is markedly worse the last 3 games than the season in it's entirety.
The VT D is not forcing a high number of turnovers or punts. It is giving up lots of scoring drives.
I squarely put this on Justin Fuente. Look we had a lot of turmoil this offseason starting with Galen Scott, the Head Coach's best friend doing something very uncharacteristic. Then you have multiple corners getting kicked off the team, I mean this is always on the HC, discipline is handled by the HC, you motivate guys to get themselves going and turn their stuff around so they can be good contributors.
As for the recruiting and so-called offensive talent along with big money QB talent we are supposed to get I don't see CornFU really pulling out the red carpet for the big recruits not even 1 4-star recruit on offense so far. All our 4-stars have been on defense except Tre Turner.
The honeymoon is over for JF and CornFU. If we want to win the ACC and the national championship we need Bud Foster at the top of the helm.
There's so much wrong with this team, I don't know where to start. This is the worst situational football team I've ever seen VT field. Play calling on short distance 3rd & 4th down is awful. Defense on 3rd and long has been bad this year.
I'm just not a fan of our offensive scheme. The oline is stuck in this passive not really run blocking but not in pass pro either RPO purgatory. Contrast that with GT. They only run the ball so they fire off the line and hit you in the mouth (or knees). We throw fades, slants, screen variations and run the same 2 run plays. Bad defenses have shut down what is probably the most offensive talent we've had since Tyrod this year.
How can we be 6 deep at receiver and not have a capable punt returner. Not even a good one, just someone who can actually catch the ball.
I don't see this defense getting better next year. Dax was dreadful out there. Ashby is solid but nothing more. Farley needs to go play baseball. He may be a world class athlete but he's not a football player. Deablo had his worst game and probably shouldn't have been out there.
Ugh love my Hokies but glass is looking half empty right now.
I'll take the blame for Dax. I built him up too much.
There is something the be said about our defensive scheme in general. We rely on pressuring the QB into making mistakes and then making the opposing offense one-dimensional. GT's offense is already one dimensional. We're basically not taking anything away from them.
Fuck all you guys. How dare you speak negatively about the Hokies?
Seriously though, we suck. Maybe next year we'll be average.
Probably not.
Can basketball season just start already? I'm sick of this trainwreck
I'm 13 beers deep trying to figure out all the scenarios as to how Marshall can get home field for the CUSA championship. VT is too young and not taleneted enough to make noise this season. All three ACC wins were against teams that have no shot at competing for anything. Like the defense couldn't get a stop tonight if their life depended on it. I don't care how inexperienced you are, have some pride. Don't get pushed around like that. Absolutely embarrassing.
Beamer had 8 years. Fuente is only half way through year 3. College football has really turned into a "what have you done for me lately" swamp and it is absolutely toxic. No one has any patience anymore and that makes me sad. This instant gratification paradigm is a bad thing.
So's getting crushed by ODU and GT. Neither of which was instant nor gratifying.
Here's what I don't get. We all knew that we were going to lose this game.
Coming into this season we all knew this defense was probably going to be one of the worst Foster had ever been responsible for. We all expected the offense to take a step forward. I think Online and receiver play has. QB and RB haven't. Overall this offense is disappointing but it shows glimpses.
After seeing how undisciplined our defense was against pretty much every team we've played not named FSU I don't know how any of us could have expected anything different than last night.
We all knew that our offense would need to score 50 points in order to win. We also all knew that was a huge long-shot.
We all knew this was going to be a rebuilding year. Many of us expected 6 or 7 wins, including losses to FSU, ND and GT. We traded FSU for ODU in typical VT fashion but otherwise this team is exactly where we all knew it would be by week 8.
So if we all knew all of this and even expected to lose this particular game, why the fuck is everyone yelling about it?
Seriously, all of you need to get your heads out of your asses. You're literally acting as if mom warned you that touching the burner would be hot and then being surprised that it actually was.
All of you get off your fucking high horses and realize that this team is exactly the same fucking team we all expected to see this season.
I'm honestly shocked so many of you are surprised. Get the fuck over it. This is a game and the sun will rise tomorrow. Being mad about something this silly isn't healthy.
Get over yourselves.
Oh get over yourself. It's easy to say 'oh we all knew we were going to concede 49 to GT' in hindsight but what is the point of sport if you go into every game expecting to lose? Maybe we should all just pack it up and shut this forum down for the season, because 'we all knew we were going to lose this game'
We're not fucking Kansas. We're Virginia Tech, with one of the best DCs in the country, one of the best up and comer coaches in the country and one of the best home atmospheres in the country. We absolutely should fucking not go into a season circling a game as a loss before it happens. Doesn't matter what attrition or how young our team is.
Lol this is rich coming from you
"Fuente isn't going to elevate this program"
"VT is just an intro"
Make up your mind or GTFO
That doesn't mean I don't get behind my team every game. That doesn't mean I don't expect us to win. There's a reason I say what I do and that's because I have high expectations about the program. I would NEVER say preseason that we're gonna lose this game (especially against a bad GT team at home).
I have my reservations about how the VT Football program is being handled but nothing I have said invalidates what I said above.
I'd also not tell people to get their head out of their asses if they feel otherwise.
My mind is pretty made up thanks.
I never root against the Hokies. I never bet against them. But I'm realistic. I want national championships too but I'm aware enough to understand that it won't happen over night. I've followed the program long enough to know that this season was going to be tough. Doesn't mean I didn't root for or hope VT would win last night. I'm just not losing my mind over it like a lot of people here because I'm smart enough to know that GT was a bad match up for us this year. My point is that people should stop wasting time and energy getting upset over a predictable loss. Yes, it sucks but be fucking realistic.
You say you're supportive and love the team but deriding the program after a loss isn't very compassionate. I'd hate to be one of your kids.
great post. I have patience. I will wait. But man, they better get some cruits' or this shit show is going to get worse.
I'm sorry. But if you're making 3+ million a year and still blaming it on players in year three, who are only on scholarship, then maybe it's time to blame the big money maker. Not saying he should be fired. At all. But we sit here blaming players who are living their dream playing in D1 college over coaches who will still make millions wherever they go. At some point we have to blame the head of the snake, and stop biting the tail.
We're just an intro at this point and anyone who says otherwise is deluding themselves.
I didn't read most of the comments above. Here's mine for y'all not to read:
Exactly zero things happened last night that surprised me, with the exception of Savoy fuel king up that punt. And yes, I do think that killed the whole game.
I remember the very moment I came to expect this - it was when I saw Caleb Farley overrun his gap and give up a 97 yd TD run against ND.
Not next year, I think we'll beat them next year, but this was easy to see.
We really need to beat both Miami and UVA, and I'm not as pessimistic about those games as I was about this one.
I'm still trying to figure out which was the turning point of this game: the Savoy punt muff or the Ricky Walker failed turnover a few plays before. On the one hand, the punt return should be an expected outcome. Fair catch, get the ball back, but you still have to produce on offense to work 97 yards for the TD. On the other hand, Ricky should have fallen on that ball. If he had, we have the ball at midfield, up 7 with 7 minutes to go in the half. At that point, being up 14 (or at least 10) is no stretch of the imagination.
Either way, within a few plays, we went from executing our gameplan (getting and holding a lead) to being in utter disarray for the rest of the game.
Absolute football chaos theory. Either one of those going the other way completely changes how the rest of the game plays out. The defense still may not have gotten another stop, but the offense would be able to run the ball more often like they did earlier on.
Agreed a bit of wind left my sails when Walker didn't get that fumble, that could have been huge. Either play stands out in my mind. I went to bed in the third quarter at some point
Great comment.
We didn't have a game plan to deal with catching GT from behind. There really might not be one that would have worked.
This was a team failure but the majority of the blame lies at the feet of Bud Foster. The question is will the fan base at large accept that?
The few drives Tech had (and that I watched turned game off early) I didn't see any truly bad offensive play calling.
Now off to Disneyworld and try to forget this and still rep my Tech gear with pride.
Yes, the defense was terrible. We were playing not to lose and that's usually a recipe for disaster, particularly against GT. How much of the decision to play conservative defense came from Foster though?
This game was lost when the most experienced player on defense tried to scoop and score instead of just diving on the fumble like I'm certain he's coached to do. That mistake was crucial. You can blame Savoy (or the coaches for even putting him at returner) but that punt never should have happened in the first place.
I'M IN A GLASS CASE OF EMOTION
Haven't posted in quite some time, but enjoy reading other people's thoughts on the games and direction of the program.
This is a program that has traditionally recruited very poorly in the trenches. Sure, we've had some great ones in Settle, Walker, Tapp, etc. but collectively the unit is always undersized across the board with zero depth. I don't see this improving next year, especially at the DT spot. They have some good prospects at DE, but until they start to make plays in a game I wouldn't count on it.
The same goes for the OL. Every year the best we can hope for is average. That's not a recipe for winning. They've definitely started to address this with recruiting, but it'll be a while until it pans out.
Until we get better in the trenches, this program is going to continue to be a has been.
Part of me wonders if Bucky Hodges, Jérod Evans, Tim Settle and Terrell Edmunds all leaving early against all good advice has something to do with not wanting to play under Fuente any longer than they have to. Regardless of whether or not you think certain players deserved to be dismissed, you can lose a locker room really fast when you're handing out dismissals like it's candy at a parade.
I feel like Fuente really wants to coach HIS players, and that's why we have seen so many off-the-field problems. None of that matters though, because players are going to bond with each other, no matter what staff they were recruited by. Fuente-era recruits see Beamer-era recruits getting axed, and it's not like they're just going to sit there and say "oh well, we weren't recruited by the same guy anyway."
When Frank Beamer lost the locker room in 2003, he was able to get it back because the 2004 team was talented enough to win some big games and the ACC in 2004. I believe Fuente is in the midst of losing the locker room, and this team is nowhere close to being talented enough to win the Coastal this season or the next. Fuente's most highly-touted recruit isn't good enough to sniff the field in his second season for whatever reason, and that's a major problem to me.
We all saw this downward trend beginning after the 2016 season when Bucky, Isaiah, and Jérod all bolted for the NFL even though at least two of them clearly weren't ready. Last night just magnified it and made it obvious. Buckle up, people. It might be a bumpy ride for the foreseeable future.
Only one of those guys didn't have a great draft outlook. Bucky, Tim, and Terrell all had great stock.
This. Jerod was the real surprise. Everyone else this has an opportunity to excel at the next level.
Bucky went undrafted, Tim didn't go till like the 5th round when he could have stayed another season and gone in like the 2nd round, and no one expected Terrell to go in the first round or even the second round. No one was surprised by Bucky or Tim's spots in the draft (or lack thereof). Things have worked out pretty well for Terrell, though. I will admit that.
Bucky was taken by the Vikings in the 6th round.
I stand corrected. Not sure who or what I was thinking about.
Probably Jerod. We're all still scratching our heads about that one.
Honestly, I think he figured that, given how inexperienced the receiving corps was going to be last season, his draft stock wasn't going to improve with one more season. He was also 23 or somewhere close to that. Still puzzling to say the least.
Bucky was not undrafted (and was projected to go in the third or fourth rounds). Settle was projected to go in the second or third rounds. Terrell was projected to go in the third or fourth rounds. All of this per NFL.com. Stop trying to twist shit into a false narrative man. These guys had an opportunity to get paid and they took it. An opportunity that I'm sure Fuente encouraged them to take advantage of.
Jerod, I dunno. Maybe it was grades, maybe it was family stuff. I don't know. I'm positive it had nothing to do with Fuente (considering he recruited Jerod). But the other three don't fit your claim whatsoever.
I'm not twisting anything. You can't sit here and tell me that even a majority of people thought any of them were making a good decision or at least the best decision. At what point in Beamer's tenure did we have guys just bolting for the NFL at any and every opportunity? And this all goes back to my original theory that I don't think Fuente is very popular in the locker room right now. Given all the dismissals and guys bolting for the pros at the first opportunity, who's to say there isn't a locker room problem?
There might be a locker room problem, but three of those guys don't match that narrative. I also don't think you can look at guys "bolting for the pros" as a reason for a schism in the locker room. There was a record number of underclassmen declaring for the draft last season. Are you telling me that there are locker room problems all over the country? No. I would say it has more to do with the god awful system we have set up where players are wrecking themselves for someone else to make a buck. But that's another debate all together.
The bottom line is Bucky, Terrell, and Tim all had decent draft outlooks and made a decision for themselves. And all three are on an active NFL roster. They made the right choice.
My narrative is that because Fuente is not popular amongst his players, players who have an opportunity to leave early do it no matter how much on each more season can improve their draft stock. Take WVU for example: Will Grier 100% would have been drafted last spring but knew he could improve his draft stock by staying one more season. Same with David Sills. They stayed. I imagine you aren't familiar with the name, but Tyre Brady of Marshall would have also been drafted last spring but decided to stick it out one more season, despite uncertainty of knowing who would be throwing him the ball. Literally everyone who we were the least bit worried about leaving for the pros last offseason did with the exception of maybe Adonis Alexander who wasn't even starting at the end of last season. You can't tell me it's not normal.
EDIT: everyone we were worried about leaving the offseason before also left except Cam Phillips, but we got the added bonus of Jérod leaving which absolutely no one was expecting.
Is there some basis for your theory other than your spider sense?
It's mostly just a hot take that I formed in the heat of the moment. I still stand by it though.
I feel like I recall some insinuations about Jerod not wanting to spend another season being our battering ram on a reconstructed knee, but don't take my word for it. I don't know that I could find the comment on here if I tried.
There was seemingly a dozen rumors about why he left. All of which wouldn't have surprised me.
Terrell Edmunds left early because his father is connected and heard a few teams REALLY liked his versatility.. and he was correct- he was a first round draft pick. Had nothing to do with Fuente. We as fans didn't know what Father Edmunds was hearing/working behind the scenes. Terrell declared because he heard his stock was rising fast. Nothing more.
Didn't Bucky have one foot out the door pretty much his entire career at VT? He was draft eligible after the 2015 season, and I seem to recall that it took some effort to keep him around for 2016.
The saddest part for me right now is how apathetic I've become towards this program and this coaching staff.
Everyone keeps saying the play calling wasn't bad, but do we not remember the 3rd down QB sweep with Willis that lost 4 yards??
I couldn't do anything but laugh at the call.
And the critical 4th & 3 why dont we chuck up a deep fade down the sideline.
The irony in all of this is, we still control our own destiny in the Coastal (it is that bad). If we were going to lose a game, this stinker was the one to lose.
Know what's crazier? We could drop the next one too and that would still be true.
If? This team was always going to lose at least a game... now the question is how many more? This defense is not good enough to win any more games without some luck. Last week I was really down on all the folks saying UVA is going to beat us... I owe them an apology, because I now wholeheartedly agree.
My vent has nothing to do with the game. It seems that everything blew up while I was out of the office yesterday and my brain is moving much slower than it should be this morning thanks to DCIMSA, HokieEnginerd, FlippinHokie, and Chris (forgot his handle). I wasn't planning on drinking that much yesterday. Then you guys happened.
Remember, I'll always love you. I just don't like you right now.
I guess what I don't understand is how our defense looks so different from the FSU game. I mean, in that game, the players were physical and played like you would think a Tech squad would play. Last night the whole team looked timid.
I'll also say that Lane Stadium last night was about as flat as I've ever seen it. Thousands of empty seats....most people didn't wear orange.
The whole atmosphere felt like a Friday night highschool game.
And, at some point, just stop the fucking fireworks. We don't need them at that stage in the game when we're being smoked.
Yeah, the fireworks after the last TD were... not good.
I feel like the defense in this game and the ODU game just didn't show up. They looked slow and unsure of what they were supposed to be doing. And it didn't correct. They never adjusted. And the penalties were ridiculous.
These are the same players who played at Duke and FSU, but they look to be playing an entirely different game. They appear bipolar.
Pretty sure you don't just unload the mortars. The fireworks get shot. Maybe all after the game. But they have to get used.
You beat me to it. I know in the past they have shot off whatever fireworks were already loaded at the end of games. I guess they thought they would go ahead and get it over with after the last TD.
After Miami humiliated us in 2005, they shot off all the unused fireworks the next night.
The show went on for a while.
I want to say that during my college years, we had a night game where the fireworks didn't get used much. Then we got a random fireworks show on the drillfield on Sunday night or something.
I find it troubling that both of those lackluster performances came after bye weeks. Good coaches do more to help there team perform better with extra time to prepare.
I was there
I was happy
I got sad
I became pissed
One GT fan started talking smack
I cussed the entire section out (39 east)
Walked out during the 3rd quarter
Drove home feeling depressed
Woke up this morning to texts of Hokie haters
Still sad........ (please tell me this season can end on a good note)
p.s. Love you TKP
This honestly has 2017 after the Clemson game written all over it, we get blown out at home to a top 10 team and just seemingly pack it in for the rest of the season. We're not trending towards 2 win seasons but we definitely seem to be on the fast track to 6-6 seasons with a birth in the Dollar General Bowl
So I've read a lot of posts that seem to debate youth vs. lack of talent... YES, this is a very young team and I think we all know that stopping a triple option defense is difficult especially when most of your starters lack playing experience. I don't want to put too much on the young guys but I do want to ask the question... why are we at the point where we have to start so many underclassmen? I think the LACK OF TALENT issue needs to be pinned on how the upperclassmen were not able to develop into capable players. To me, it's never a good sign when you have to start so many underclassmen. You are basically saying that the players you recruited and developed over the years are not better than kids who are less than 2 years right out of high school. To me that's concerning, and I think a lot of it falls on the coaches regarding both recruiting and player development.
This ^^
We only have 7 seniors on scholarship.....
Ugly loss.
The defense looked lost the entire night.
The scheme was good against the option. But the execution was blown up with great blocking by GT.
The GT offense pisses me off to no end, and the oline blocking should be done by every team to showcase how unsafe and stupid it really is.
Either way there is 0 talent and aggressiveness on D.
Offense looked good early but just failed to execute when it needed to.
This loss sends the program spiraling. Getting beat that bad is hard to forget esp when you are still trying to get over ODU.
Back to the end of the line for the hokies, their national view is now too tainted to even be talked about.
Ugly
The thing that I couldn't get over was the line of scrimmage. It seemed like there was never a Hokie in position to make a play at the line of scrimmage. I just don't get how that is possible for a group that is normally so disruptive.
GT didn't run much "triple" option all night.. What they did do was a simple ISO block on the DE and had the QB counter or lead to that side. You see that play run in Pop warner. When you can destroy the 230lb DE all night, run it some more- and they did. Simple play, and works when your guy can kill the guy accross from him. Men against boys.
I think horseonatreadmill said this... I feel better about all the rest of our games than this one lol.
Did anyone catch Bud mouthing "Fucking Pathetic" after one of their many first down runs? It's not on him. These players are SAWFT and lack discipline.
These soft and undisciplined players... who coaches and recruits them? The tooth fairy?
Not sure if this has been mentioned above but did anyone notice a slight temperament in aggressive play calling following last TD in the first half? PJ in Fuente's head???
It was quite clear that the defense was going to get their doors blown off the entire night and so who cares if we score in a couple of plays. They were going to be on the field the whole night regardless. Would AL or Clemson have slowed things down or kept scoring quickly without regard for the defense – looking to ram it down the other team's throat that way. I think that would have been a better strategy, given the circumstances, to try and demoralize GT through offense – putting doubt in their heads that maybe they will not be able to keep up all night. Their defense is one of the truly horrible in the country and we only put up 28.
I think this is another example of PJ getting into Fuente's head and him getting too wrapped up about game management against this opponent. Our offense truly stalled after he started being more conservative. He's a headcase!!! Great one minute and truly perplexing the next.
Anyone know why Savoy was back returning, as far as I know, his first punt of the year last night? That really seemed to be the turning point of the game.
The Wide Receivers also dropped balls
Yeah, they had one job.