HISTORIC DAY: Amazon has chosen Virginia as the #AmazonHQ2 destination, thanks to plans for a revolutionary, #VirginiaTech graduate campus in Alexandria, VA. 👏 👉 https://t.co/Pu33Cdxb8R pic.twitter.com/0gYtqwVK68— Virginia Tech (@virginia_tech) November 13, 2018
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Soooooo glad that Raleigh avoided this. The absolute last thing we needed was an additional 50k people on the roads every morning.
Then again, the same could be said for DC, so good luck with that.
This is kinda the deal that makes me mad about this whole Amazon HQ2 thing. The whole original initiative was to find new centers of business at a cheaper price. They chose DC and New York two of the most crowded expensive areas on the east coast.
Yeah any amount of pretending they weren't going to go with two huge, established metro areas was all smoke in mirrors. Lots of people have called them out on this.
In their defense, DC is (slightly) cheaper than their current HQ.
...for now...
This is only going to drive prices up even further. You could see what happened in Silicon Valley begin to happen in DC (after other companies follow suit) where property values begin to skyrocket, eventually leading to an exodus out of the region because average workers just can't afford it anymore. A lot of people were predicting that could happen in Raleigh if this all went down here (we also supposedly still have Apple about to announce for their HQ2, bringing 10k jobs, which will still impact a little), and I wasn't looking forward to it at all.
Good observation!
I'm from NOVA and moved to Maryland in 1999 to escape the cost of living and traffic. In those years, Maryland has gotten way worse. It's still not nearly as bad.
When I was growing up NOVA was an reasonably affordable place to raise a family. That is no longer the case. Also the poor planning in the area resulted in too few and inadequate roads to handle the population.
With all the advanced technology we have we don't need to crowd together. We need to spread out. That has many positive effects including not having too much of our infrastructure in one place AND allowing other parts of the country to thrive as well.
As a business owner I am completely not surprised or happy with this. Tech talent in the DC area is already expensive and Amazon hiring another 50K is only going to make it worse.
It will help make Washington D.C. even more expensive, which raises the cost of living, which raises the salaries and COLA allowances for government workers, increases traffic, and competes for real estate.
Luckily, the taxpayer is there to help pay the bulk of the costs, particularly with all the incentives Amazon was able to wriggle out of it. Your representatives at work.
suburban infrastructure is far more expensive per person than urban infrastructure
ideally the ability to remote work would result in more small-town sized clusters of housing where people can walk to the store and to restaurants.. instead of an ever-bigger sprawl of suburbs centered on existing large metro areas.
We're certainly not going to get ideal here... Not even close.
They were going to a large metro area because that's where people want to live, where infrastructure can handle that many people etc. I can't name that many places outside where they chose they met their criteria AND was willing to give them all sorts of handouts to make it happen.
I mean Bezos knew he wanted NYC and DC from the start. You look at the requirements, they were tailor made for those 2 locations. But he wanted the theater and he wanted to drive up the price so that those 2 regions would feel threatened and come to him with a sweetheart deal that would publicly fund as much as possible with as little tax burden put on Amazon as possible. And it worked.
It always works.
Money goes to D.C., and never comes out.
Not sure what Amazon's plan is, but whatever it is, I'm guessing influencing government to let them get bigger is going to be a part of that.
I'm guessing the plan is to be a player in distribution for "Uncle Sam." With our defense budget soaring, DC will look for even more privatization of military logistics in helping reduce the military's footprint. I think they will use the National Landing as a hub for whatever defense-related contracts they have (other nations as well?) . This will assure them a business model that can make them somewhat a necessity. NY, I think, will alleviate and add (Wall Street, fashion hub of the west/world, and everything else) to the what the Seattle campus does.
This whole "search" spectacle was calculated and cold. But you have to say, Very smart of them. Of course, I could be completely wrong too. I thought NoVa was going to be the unanimous Hq2 at first hearing of the announcement 14 months ago. I think it will benefit DC area residents see long-awaited infrastructure changes. Plus, many schools' particularly VT will see a big benefit.
I definitely see VT as one of the winners here.
Taxpayers and commuters being among the losers.
If Apple is a high tech company, why does it need to be in Crystal City? There's only one reason. Proximity to Uncle Sugar.
Proximity matters - Amazon signed on years ago to deliver custom government-level private cloud services with the gov't. Being near DC (and Bezos's house in Kalorama) makes a ton of sense.
Exactly, the pageantry, pretending, and ulterior motives are why the move is receiving criticism. He always knew where he was headed.
Sure, but without the acting job, he wouldn't have gotten the best deal to do what he wanted to do anyway.
Also, he got a lot of free publicity out of it.
I'm not saying it wasn't a clever play on his part. I would never doubt that man's business savvy.
New York Times had a good article pointing out that the whole "search process" really just allowed Amazon to get every major city's future infrastructure plans.
Claiming two cities for HQ2 also allows Amazon to use each of them for leverage against one another so it'll be a constant bidding war between NYC and DC to make things cheaper for Amazon.
Say what you will, but Bezos isn't stupid.
I really don't think this is true...this is kinda where people that work in a vast majority of jobs have to live to work because the jobs are there.
Right and people want to live where jobs are.
There's jobs, good schools, public transportation, sports/music venues, excellent food, an expanding microbrewery scene etc. etc.
TKP loves to hate DC but there's plenty of reasons why people like living here. I'll leave because of the traffic and costs of living but it's ridiculous that people pretend like DC has nothing to offer outside of jobs.
Well no my argument is that people don't want to live there people have to live there. I know I'd much rather live on 10+ acres way far from the city. My job however is close to the city so I have to live close to the city.
Granted there's no real way to avoid this phenomenon I mean you plant a big successful business outside a city, other businesses pop up around it and all the sudden the small town is now a small city. At least everyone isn't packed in like sardines though and the infrastructure has room to catch up to the expansion.
Just funny to me that I just came from a company that was leasing their building and property after they sold in a small town for $1 a year, its been available for at least 6 months now and is still unoccupied. Small towns are very under appreciated.
I mean, I'm the opposite. If I had to chose to live the rest of my life in the country or in the city, I'd take the city in an instant. Give me a a medium sized apt in a city where I can walk everywhere and try a new restaurant every Saturday, and I'll happily trade in my car.
Of course, the dream is to get the best of both worlds, and own a small condo in the city, and a vacation home in the mountains.
if you look at corporate tax rates, virginia is much cheaper than cali or washington or NY. a lot of corps have been moving to nova. we are just praying that ralph northam doesnt get his way and tax all the businesses into moving somewhere else.
doesn't seem to push companies out of California... idk
Erm...Cali is struggling big time in terms of small business and business retention.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/19/californians-fed-up-with-housing-costs-a...
http://calbizjournal.com/tag/businesses-leaving-california-for-texas/
CA is largest VC community in the world. About 50% of all VC activity in US is in CA. (See VC Article)
CA has 5th largest economy in world (if it were a country) and continues to grow. (See LA Times))
CA is 12% of US population, but 25% of US GDP growth.
Big... And falling
It makes things more expensive, and drives the cost of talent way up. This area is already have a significant issue recruiting talent and keeping them. This just made things much more difficult for recruiters everywhere in DC.
The Triangle would have gotten HQ2 all to themselves if they had any mass transit at all. Even some basic light rail to connect the downtowns of Raleigh and Durham to RTP and the airport. That being said, I'm very happy we dodged the Amazon bullet.
I think this was going to Northern Virginia from the beginning.
The rest was just noise, free PR, and negotiation.
Does anyone worry that Sands is trying to make VT too big? Growth is good, but not at the risk of quality.
Overall, I think this is a good thing, but I do worry about his vision for our future.
100% agree. Sustainable growth is one thing, but I just hope his plans for extreme growth don't dilute the traditions that make VT so special to the point where the school loses its way.
I'm going to leave it to the people who are a lot smarter and informed than me to decide what is good for VT and what isn't. I'm sure they have had meeting after meeting and presentation after presentation that shows that this is the correct route to take.
Yes, that's true. But have also seen times where smart people get together, tell each other how smart they are, and miss the overall point.
#1 Example of this was LTCM
Also, you just described the typical UVA experience.
Once we agree on our vision and goals, I trust the smart people to do the right thing to achieve those goals. The question is whether President Sands is pursuing goals the "right" goals, not whether he is competent to pursue them.
I think this is what Arizona State did when they were trying to boost their enrollment to be one of the largest universities in country, but they did it by boosting online enrollment. I definitely don't us to be another ASU.
Also, I am kind of glad that DFW lost out on this tbh. I know it would be good for the area economically and all that, but the traffic is bad enough as it is.
There's a huge difference in a graduate campus and an online program that anybody with an internet connection can sign up for.
Sands lost my support with the logo fiasco
This question constitutes a new thread completely, maybe during the off season. When he first came to VT, and said he wanted to transform VT into a major research facility, I thought that we would go the route of a Stanford or a Georgia Tech, with our undergraduate population staying around 25k, and making the program significantly more competitive. Instead, it's going the route of Purdue (not surprising given his past) or a Michigan, where they are accepting more students in order to make more money.
As far as if the growth is too big... I'll let someone more informed than I weigh in. I've heard a lot of complaints, but in my annual trip back to Blacksburg, I haven't felt that too much has changed.
Ill be honest I think its been pretty clear even under the later Steger years where VT wanted to go. Institutionally weve long considered our peers to be the larger comprehensive land grant schools like Penn State, TAMU, and other places like Michigan, etc. Vs the smaller more focused places like GT. With UVA's place as a public Ivy, and schools like GMU, JMU, etc being generally more regional, there is still space for VT to experience sustainable high quality growth as one of the state's 2 primary public schools.
I don't think so. I think this expansion of the Alexandria campus is a great idea. I get the sense that it will be geared toward professionals that want to get graduate degree to further their career. This is great for the University as it grows the name and reputation in advanced fields.
Toss on top of this the increasing population, wealth, and technology in the DC area and its a good place to get a foot in the door. All of this plus a large main campus undergrad pool that is loyal to Tech and now has an option to get a graduate level degree from their University without leaving town means there is a large customer base already in place. All of this can be done with separate faculty and resources from the main campus. Wins all around and a great move.
The overview of the project includes 250,000 sqft of graduate student and faculty housing. So they are expecting a decent number of full-time grad students
Well it definitely wasn't because of Metro. Damn I'm glad I left that mess.
I'm excited for the economic growth this will bring to the area by creating another ~25k jobs, but as someone who used to live about a mile from downtown Crystal City, the last thing that part of town really needs is 50k more people and housing prices to shoot up even more.
**ahem**
Please refer to it as "National Landing" from now on.
Amazon, gentrifying the gentrified since 2018
National Landing is the development that the VT grad school will be included in. It's not in Crystal City, it's a couple miles south of the center of Crystal City, but connected with a Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) system and will be ~1/2 mile from the to-be-built Potomac Yard Metro
edit, apparently National Landing is a label for Pentagon City + Crystal City + Potomac Yard that was used in the proposal put together by Arlington & Alexandria
Crystal City has a lot of vacant office space right now. So traffic will get worse, but it's not like it was great when those buildings were full of DoD offices and DoD contractors...
This might be the final straw for rent prices in Southwest DC and Alexandria. Man, I hope they are ready to pay some Bay area salaries. That being said, consider my application sent.
My brother and his wife have lived near Crystal City renting for about 4 years and they just bought an apartment near Del Ray in Alexandria about 6 months ago. Man, talk about timing. I'm sure the value of that apartment is going to sky rocket to where they could not afford it, following the Amazon HQ news.
Yea, I was looking at 1 bedrooms by Nationals park last year and they were creeping to starting at $2100. Going to be interesting to watch the aftermath of this one.
Also, I know there are a good amount of military folk on this site. I assume rent prices will sky-rocket almost immediately; however, housing allowances are usually slow to catch up, so it'll leave a 1-2 year gap where current rent is significanly higher than BAH for military.
It would be wise for the military to reduce it's present RIGHT OUTSIDE OF THE CAPITAL.
There is no reason massive bases need to be located that close to DC.
BRAC had some merit but one thing it did was concentrate too much stuff in the DC area. One would think you would want things like NSA and Cyber Command outside of the nuclear blast radius.
Good, bad or indiferent, just mentioning that fact. Most of the "military" in the NRC don't work in bases. Most work alongside other government civilians doing pretty much about everything. But in general, I get your point (and other people's), there's just TOO much going on in the NRC area.
I was agreeing with you and also making the point of spreading stuff out which will make us more secure and make housing more affordable.
There's not a chance in hell I'd ever consider working for Amazon. We've had a few distributed computing folks leave to take jobs at the C2S facility in Columbus, and literally every one of them came back within a year. Hellish work environment.
To each their own. As a recruiter, working for a place like that is a dream job for most.
UVa attempting to keep up
Link Here
Weird flex but OK.
Welcome: New Silicon Valley of the East
Without a doubt one of the funniest moments in TV history.
Ahhh my long lost friend.
CAN
YOU
FEEL
THE
HYPE
OH ITS BROUGHTEN
Hahaha Conan is the best. That was a great skit.
Hey there pretty boy
Damn it. I started this shit show. I'm starting to feel googly eyed myself 😳
It's a good thing northern Virginia doesn't have a massive traffic problem yet /s
If it makes my house go up in value, I'm ok with it. I avoid DC like the black plague outside of sports and don't have to worry about any of the people who commute there since I work in Herndon.
Amazon Stadium/Carillion Field
Prime shipping moves quicker than our up-tempo offense.
I, for one, would LOVE to have a corporate logo on our jerseys, as long it is a company I like and that pays. We already have Nike on the jersey, I don't see why we can't put someone else on there, too
I HATE that this is coming to Arlington. Send it out to Loudoun or Fredericksburg or anywhere but here. It's already a nightmare in this area and overcrowded. The last thing we need is this.
I bought a place a few metro stops away from Crystal City a couple years ago.
This + a new Wegmans coming soon = higher home prices.
I'm thrilled, but I don't plan on staying in the DC area permanently.
Slightly OT here, because I've paid little to no attention to the Amazon drama.
I just don't understand the need to locate things like this in already population dense areas. Seems to me you could attract all the people you need to less dense areas, and that most states would be willing to pay for the additional infrastructure needed to support it.
I'm not talking about locating in BFE, but there are tons of areas supported by a regional air field that could use the tax base, already have enough infrastructure to handle the added traffic, and are open to rezoning for all the additional derivative economic endeavors (restaurants, hotels, shopping, etc...).
Instead we see a "rich get richer" sort of phenomena, where a big load is added to an infrastructure already approaching its limits.
I can't help but think that a number of factors supersede actual economic ones in many cases. A company I worked for got a new CEO once, and had plans to move HQ to New Jersey until the BOD stepped in with a bit of fiscal responsibility and forced the new CEO to move to the job instead of an entire building full of HQ move to him. Big red flag there, and sure enough, he lasted little more than a year.
Most areas legitimately can't accommodate that kind of influx. Richmond was in the running (I doubt seriously, but they at least put in a bid) and I'm glad we didn't get it. A company of that size can wreck a local economy, pricing out local residents and causing extreme strain on infrastructure that just isn't prepared to handle that much growth all at once. It's also deceptively hard to get talent to come to you, even for the big companies. They need to go where the talent is and where the talent wants to go if they hope to compete for the best of the best, which is what they want. Part of the reason they chose DC and NY is that comparatively, their HQ is a drop in the bucket, shielding them from any negative consequences they might incur while also ensuring that their own infrastructure and talent needs are met.
another key point about where talent wants to go... talent wants to go places they have options.
Amazonville isn't going to have options outside Amazon. New York, Washington DC, Boston, Dallas, Atlanta, Raleigh, etc have multiple options for talented workers. If you're a great programmer or project manager who wants to maximize your income where you going to go? The town where Amazon's offer is the only one on the table? or the city where your potential employer knows they have to compete for your services?
I think both of these things are incorrect. If you want to recruit to notch talent (Amazon's hiring philosphy is that they only extend offers to people who are 'better than AT LEAST 50% of their current employees') you have to put it in a city; recruits right out of college don't want to live in the burbs. Experienced recruits who may be satisfied in the burbs often don't want to uproot their families to move.
I don't think that Amazon actually wants extra infrastructure. They want the most talented people, a major international airport, tax breaks, and opportunities for business expansion. The only one of those that infrastructure related is the airport, and that is not going to be built/expanded quickly.
I disagree with this but we've already gone over this.
2) they aren't going to be able to afford it cost of living up there continues to climb. I graduated in 2015 with a few NOVa job offers that were absolute garbage when adjusted for cost of living. I took a $10k pay cut to live somewhere with astronomically lower cost of living. All of these majors tout this "oh our grads average $60k right out of school"....which really isn't impressive or that much money at all when the majority of them end up in super high cost centers.
I mean, Amazon doesn't care, if you're in there product or strategy or retail teams, you're making around $90k with an undergraduate degree and $140k with an MBA. Anyone who wants to work at an Amazon will be paid well enough to live in the city.
I get that plenty of people choose to accept a slightly lesser paying job to avoid the city, and I understand why they do that. I just don't think that's the majority of college grads. Otherwise, plenty of companies would leave the city in favor of less dense areas.
Have you worked for Amazon? If no, then don't assume to know their pay structure. I used to live in Seattle, so I first learned of how they pay a few years ago. My bro works for them and has explained in intimate detail how their pay structure works. A lot of your compensation is based on stock options which do not factor into your monthly take home pay. People will probably be fine living in NOVA and working for Amazon, but don't throw out inflated numbers.
They recruit heavily from my MBA program, and all hires get the same pay. It's 140k base + $40K signing bonus. The signing bonus is split between stock and cash. They only recruit for Product Management and Retail leadership positions.
EDIT: I know that sounds extremely pretentious, not intended.
What exactly is your MBA program?
I'm in an MBA program at another ACC Coastal school. I'd prefer not to say which, since I'm the only person in my class with an undergrad degree from VT, so I'd be easily identifiable, but schools release employment reports each year if you're curious about hiring at each university.
This article states the avg salary will be $150k.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/13/amazon-tax-incentives-in-new-york-city-v...
I'd like to know how this compares to the average at Seattle HQ
Huge for the University and the VT brand overall. I'm sure there will be logistical challenges in the area, but I'm those have been taken into consideration and that there is at least some plan minimizing those as much as possible. For those worried about Sands' vision, understand that this is what he's been after since he got here, so there is no surprise. He wants VT to be a globally relevant school, so throw out the notion that he's gonna just focus on SWVA growth... the "Beyond Boundaries" thing is no joke to leadership here and they will continue to pursue that model aggressively.
First of all, I am born and raised NOVA and don't want anything to do with this. I spent years working in Crystal City and they are welcome to that hole, but from a broader community perspective, this is terrible, and from an Amazon perspective, it's terribly selfish and narrow focused. Everyone talking about housing prices is correct, but it's also the reason my sister in Raleigh area can't move back here; she can sell her nice single family home in Apex and afford to buy a townhouse in Ashburn with the proceeds.
Also, Amazon is doing a great job setting itself up for the eventual anti-trust tussle and while that won't happen under the current administration, it WILL happen and then what happens to all these new HQs when Amazon gets broken up? Does DC become the headquarters for the spun off AWS company? What about the Streaming Music Service company (does that get combined with their streaming movies/TV company)? Or the gadgets (Kindle, Alexa) company?
I think getting set up for a future antitrust situation is the main part of these new headquarters.
So, like, are we becoming a farm system for the Amazon empire?
Watch out Oregon... there's a new player in town /s
They literally could have chosen anywhere they wanted and actually created their own city out of it.
All the best talent is in New York City and Washington, so I get it, and now they do not have to relocate people.
The thing is, Amazon is a draw, people would have come to them, no matter where they chose.
Man...I wish something like this would have gone to the Southside Area of VA..(Danville, Martinsville, South Boston etc.)
Yes. That's what SHOULD happen, but usually doesn't.
Those people who want to "better the world" mostly want to "better THEIR world".
You can have it.
Instead I'll just get to watch my commute get progressively worse, my taxes and overall cost of living soar higher, and my anger at Arlington County's greed and stupidity go through the roof.
I'm sure you will get to vote on allowing them to actually come. The citizens of NYC are certainly going to.
A distribution center or a smaller corporate support office would be better for Southside VA (or any non large city area) because an HQ the size of Amazon would absolutely wreck the economy and infrastructure of that area. Those areas literally do not have the infrastructure to support it. While its true (in theory) that Amazon would bring investment into that area to build it up to the necessary requirements, none of the people that currently live there would benefit. The vast majority would be pushed out due to rising costs of living (everything from property values all the way down to grocery shopping). It isn't just Southside. Roanoke or Richmond couldn't handle it either. Or further if you go further south and east, Greensboro/Winston Salem and Raleigh/Durham in NC. Amazon HQ is just too damn big for a lots of locations to support.
You're talking about infrastructure like DC's is working well now with out the extra 25k. I mean 25k people doubles the population of Martinsville so that's probably completely out of the question.
That many people is going to have an impact anywhere but I feel like its better and easier to deal with the physical space limitations that the options they chose induce. Cost of living isn't going to jump like crazy in less populated areas because there's room to expand its puts far less demand on current housing because there is far more potential supply.
There is no inventory in rural areas so yes prices will go up. As will prices at stores etc.
Danville had industry in the past: Dan River Mills.
Yes, it would be a stretch for anyone, but you don't ramp it up to 25K people in six months. Small places would need to build infrastructure, but Amazon is also bringing some money with them.
This is all about being where Bezos wanted to be to begin with, and getting the localities to give them a sweetheart deal. Think Notre Dame and the ACC.
Yeah, there's more room to expand and potential housing...for new people. But for the current population an expansion of this size that would take place for a rural area or economically blighted area like Southside VA would hurt its current residents. Developers move in, start buying up available land, building new structures, houses, etc. That ups the property values in that area, which ups the property taxes. If you're in Southside on living assistance (which MANY are) or are making modest 40,000 to 50,000 a year, the rise in property tax could hurt. In some cases, you might not be able to afford to live in your home anymore. Even if you aren't a home owner, rents will go up as landlords will take advantage of the incoming population knowing that they will get their money somehow either by raising rent or selling the property entirely, evicting, and building something new and pricier for the new population. Similar things happens to stores and restaurants. They start catering more to the higher tax bracket crowd. So for new person the cost of living might be lower than NYC, SF, DC, or elsewhere, but its a hell of a lot higher for those that were there before.
And beside all of that, areas like that literally don't have the infrastructure to support a massive change that this would require. At their peak in the 60s and 70s, Southside had large populations and the necessary infrastructure, but much of it hasn't been updated since that peak. Water systems, sewers, electrical grid, etc throughout Southside and into SW VA are old, outdated, and in need of repair. Much of the area doesn't even have broadband internet if you go by the new definition, which is 25mbps or higher. Lots still have 15, 10, or even lower. Fiber is non-existent. Even if Amazon were to foot some the bill, that's a massive undertaking which is why smaller communities like that were never under consideration to begin with and why it was always gonna be a place like NYC or DC. The backbone of what they need is already there. (Of course, they also just wanted massive subsidies, which not to get political, but it reeks of cronyism)
It's just too much of an undertaking for Southside, SW VA, or any region like that to accommodate a massive company the size of Amazon. You can't go 0 to 100. It has to be a sustained growth over time. That's why I said it would be better to shoot for a distribution center or a smaller company that does in work in support of Amazon's many projects. It's easier to accommodate the smaller fishes and everyone (companies, community) grows together over time.
I agree with this and I think the distribution center would a long way to get the area off the ground. The good thing about it is that a lot of "younger" people from the area would consider moving back to be closer to family if you put the HQ there. Also, with a distribution center, you could hire people that already live there as opposed to having to bring in talent from outside the area.
Well at least I would know that all of those confederate flags that are up in Danville now would be coming down...but thats not what this conversation is about so I will hold my tongue :)
I agree with infrastructure not being in place, but it would be a HUGE impact to that area overall, but I would take a distribution center at this point because the area as a whole is dying...
Agree, or for actual Southwest Virginia. Many rural areas in the state are struggling mightily.
So once this(HQ 1/2 of HQ2) staff's up itll basically be another Pentagon's worth of people a mile from the actual Pentagon, all using the same 2-3 metro stops on the Blue/Yellow line and 3-4 roads. So I think ill stick to living along the Silver/Orange line for now thanks.
Just saw that NY lured Amazon with $1.7b in taxpayer subsidies, and Virginia offered something similar.
Yep, around (at least? Not seeing anything concrete for VA yet, just that it's around the same) $1 billion in Virginia taxpayer money went to bribe the richest man in the world to build a headquarters in the Commonwealth....
Link
This is such a scam. On the order of pro stadium scams. I don't blame Bezos, or other companies for taking advantage of it.
I blame the politicians and the people who elect them to just waste everyone's money.
I'm not crazy about the state giving out such incentives to businesses, but to say it's a scam fails to look at the numbers.
Let's say that Amazon employs 20,000 people at this location (even though it might be closer to 25k). If the average salary is 150k as stated by that CNBC article, that's roughly $3 billion dollars for 1 year of new wages in the Commonwealth (that's an estimate that doesn't take into account what actual take-home pay will be... but neither does 150k).
Just on the raw numbers, it doesn't seem that egregious. Much less so than handouts for pro sports.
Good point. And that is only for one year. I'd imagine that Amazon will be setting up shop for the long haul, though I'd like to see how the subsidies change (if at all) year over year
seems like Arlington / Virginia made out pretty well. <1 Billion total vs 1.76 Billion for NYC.
A portion of the Virginia incentives don't really kick in until Amazon reaches 25k employees in the region* and another ~400-500 million are education incentives that (Virginia Tech, George Mason expansions) that will benefit everyone in the region, not just Amazon.
*same applies to NYC
New Developments: Amazon has scrapped plans for their NYC portion of HQ2. They are saying, at least for now they aren't reopening the search, so at least for now it appears this could end up meaning more jobs than previously announced could be heading to the NoVa expansion.
They also said they were going to continue with their plans in Nashville, though I am not entirely sure what they were planning on in Nashville - could mean some more expansion there, too
A new AWS datacenter or central distribution warehouse for the midwest region would be my guess. Nashville would be great for either of those.
Nashville will be their 'Center of Excellence'. It's going to be an innovation hub for operations and leadership.
This makes our satellite campus even more important.
I never understood why these two locations would ever offer any incentive for companies. You want access to the federal government fine we need your taxes for road improvements. Wall street? subway needs some tax dollars for improvements. In addition, these two locations wont bring in 25k of workers unless amazon is moving them there. They will hire from the local talent pools.
I don't want to get too political (this is governments bending over backwards for coorporations so it's already political). But all the state level (sometimes federal) politicians have no problem putting these horrible deals in my back yard when their district isnt affected. Then they get to count this as a win on the campaign trail. So now the towns have to pay for the local improvements and wont get tax money from the companies for some times decades. So they have to take out bonds, or raise local taxes, or cut funding to other things like schools (which Amazon said they wanted a good education system). And Amazon's ties with Richmond are the worst. Amazon doesnt pay for its electricity in VA, where they have a lot of data centers. Dominion power raised everyone's rates to cover Amazon which was legal becuase Richmond made it legal. So next time you buy something from one of the wealthiest corporations ran by the worlds wealthiest man, you can thank me for subsidising your life. These deals need to stop.
It's very much in line with Rich billionaires demanding public funds to build their multi-million dollar arenas and stadiums for their sports franchise ownership hobby.
This.
For anyone that doesn't understand how these deals can go sideways to a quick read on the City of Miami, the Florida/Miami Marlins, and *all* the shenanigans involved in their 3+ decades of a relationship.
The top young talent (for the most part) wants to live in major cities, and Amazon pays well enough (at least in these roles) that the talent doesn't care about cost of living.
Which will be ok until the moment those same people try to find housing with a reasonable commute to the office at the range they can afford with their salaries.
Just replace them with the next up MBA student. Amazon isn't really focused on building a long term relationship with its employees.
Right, DC and NYC is a place the talent wants to go, why should either city pay a company to come there. Those cities have all the eggs and amazon says if you give us some eggs then we will take those eggs. Those two cities dont need amazon, so why pander to them.
Dominion is an AWFUL company.
I just hate that the county I've grown up in has been one of the most money hungry, complains about being broke, and then says this is going to be great, while giving massive breaks to Amazon and claims this is going to be a good thing. Not sure who it is going to be a good thing for, besides the pockets of Jeff Bezos, because I sure as hell know it's not going to be for anyone that lives here. Fuck Amazon, and Fuck Arlington.
AMZN is a great diversion from the fact that they're building a $70M public pool, and the spend 2-3x more on schools than Alexandria or Loudon, yet the schools are no better.
Fuck Arlington? Its legit the coolest/best city in the state to live if youre young, want to make good money and be able to walk to bars, grocery stores and restaurants. Sure it cost more than RVA/Norfolk but it offers sooo much more for everyday life.
Buying a home up here is another story.
I've lived in Arlington for practically my entire life. They've turned it from a nice community that felt like home to a soulless wannabe DC. It's a shell of what it once was. They're ripping everything up around Ballston and along Columbia Pike and turning it into condos and high rises. They're doing not much to improve any of the infrastructure and shocker traffic blows going towards or away from DC at any time of the day.
I'm young, but not that young, "good" money and it's gone immediately when they want to charge you $1800 a month for a shitty apartment. I'm just thankful that I don't live in the Ballston corridor or in Clarendon.
All valid points but you don't have to live there. Nor does anyone else.
Jeff Bezos quit his job and started a company which now employees 600k people. Is he rich? Obviously. But he earned that money. You can do it too if you have an idea to market.
The people in the warehouse whose salaries are not high would arguably be making similar wages elsewhere.
Where has he earned the right for me to pay for his electricity? It's a bunch of crap that I have to subsidize the richest man in the worlds company. Or the right to overcrowd the metro without paying taxes to expand it.
The metro trains have an average weekly ridership of 626k, the 25k that h2 will house is one fifth of that 25k x 5 days = 125k. Yes not all will ride metro, but where are they going to park?
It's also part of the game. VA had to give up something in order to get them in the door. Sure you can say that Amazon doesn't need these tax breaks or the deals on electricity. But by getting Amazon in the door, you're taxing the increase in salaries for HQ2 and AWS employees, you still get to tax large portions of the revenues, and you show other big tech firms (like Apple) that you're willing to play ball and that its worthwhile to come to VA. And plus the increased competition for workers in NOVA will drive up salaries, a net win for NOVA employees. And the increased tax revenue can go towards things like expanding metro, supporting schools, new roads etc. I think overall its a nice increase for VA. NYC backing out was dumb IMO