OT: USMNT - The Future is Now

I feel the previous USMNT has run its course now that the World Cup is almost upon us and we've had almost 8 months to process things. On top of that, there's a lot to look forward to with the group of players on the come-up.

In beating what amounts to a Bolivian B or C team yesterday on Memorial Day, there were a bunch of bright spots. Josh Sargent got his first cap and scored on his debut, Tim Weah scored his first international goal, Weston McKennie looked like a bulldog tackling Bolivian players way harder than you probably should in a friendly, and guys like Antonee Robinson & Keaton Parks made their debut and had nice flashes.

Now there's two more friendlies in the next couple weeks scheduled in Europe - against Ireland in Dublin on 6/2, and against France in Lyon on 6/9.

On top of that, US Soccer has already announced a friendly against Mexico in Nashville on 9/11, with rumors of a 9/7 friendly against Brazil at MetLife Stadium. Recent reports have also come out that the USMNT is finalizing friendlies against Colombia & Argentina for the October FIFA window.

Given those potential names on the schedule, the young guns will have their chances to stake claims on spots this year against quality opposition.

Forums: 
DISCLAIMER: Forum topics may not have been written or edited by The Key Play staff.

Comments

Also, US Soccer just released the roster for the two upcoming friendlies against Ireland & France. There are 7 departures from the Bolivia friendly (Bono, Guido, Gooch, Horvath, Olosunde, Pulisic, Zimmerman) and 10 additions (Steffen, Yarbrough, Moore, Parker, Yedlin, Adams, de la Torre, Saief, Trapp, Wood). Full roster below:

GOALKEEPERS (3):
Bill Hamid (Midtjylland/DEN; 5/0)
Zack Steffen (Columbus Crew SC; 2/0)
William Yarbrough (Club Leรณn/MEX; 3/0)

DEFENDERS (9):
Cameron Carter-Vickers (Tottenham Hotspur/ENG; 2/0)
Eric Lichaj (Nottingham Forest/ENG; 15/1)
Matt Miazga (Chelsea/ENG; 5/1)
Shaq Moore (Levante/ESP; 0/0)
Erik Palmer-Brown (Manchester City/ENG; 1/0)
Tim Parker (New York Red Bulls; 0/0)
Antonee Robinson (Everton/ENG; 1/0)
Jorge Villafaรฑa (Santos Laguna/MEX; 17/0)
DeAndre Yedlin (Newcastle United/ENG; 50/0)

MIDFIELDERS (10):
Tyler Adams (New York Red Bulls; 3/0)
Joe Corona (Club America/MEX; 21/3)
Luca de la Torre (Fulham/ENG; 0/0)
Julian Green (Stuttgart/GER; 9/3)
Weston McKennie (Schalke/GER; 2/1)
Keaton Parks (Benfica/POR; 1/0)
Rubio Rubin (Club Tijuana/MEX; 6/0)
Kenny Saief (Anderlecht/BEL; 2/0)
Wil Trapp (Columbus Crew SC; 4/0)
Tim Weah (Paris Saint-Germain/FRA; 2/1)

FORWARDS (3):
Andrija Novakovich (Reading/ENG; 2/0)
Josh Sargent (Werder Bremen/GER; 1/1)
Bobby Wood (Hamburg/GER; 37/11)

Don't read too much into the club teams. I know this is heavily Euro-centric, but keep in mind the MLS season is in full swing and the European season just wrapped up this past weekend. Much more availability from the international clubs than domestic. To be honest, I'm a little surprised we asked even the 3 we did to play.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

To be honest, I'm a little surprised we asked even the 3 we did to play.

4 actually. I suspect that MLS teams might have had the right of refusal to release players though.

There's also a chance that there's some agreement in place with the Crew & RBNY for Steffen, Trapp, Adams & Parker - the may only play in 1 of the upcoming friendlies, then head back to the states so they'd only miss 1 league game.

But given the ethos of those two clubs, it wouldn't shock me if they see the value in letting them get minutes to potentially increase their value. There have been rumors that Tyler Adams is in line for a move to RB Leipzig after the MLS season.

Really excited to see Adams join the midfield and Yedlin join the defense.

Interested to see what Novakovich and Saief can do.

I hope to see de la Torre get some playing time as well.

Will Trapp and Zach Steffen called up for the next two friendlies. Both have had great starts to this MLS season and Steffen in particular has been amazing.

EDIT: missed it by that much. Leaving it anyways.

VT Class of '12 (MSE), MVBone, Go Hokies!

Out with the old, in with the new. I was pleased to see us passing with purpose yesterday, and getting up the field. No more of the ball stopping with Bradley and being uselessly slowed down, no more of Dempsey's cherry picking laziness, no more Geoff Cameron gaffes. It's time to move on and get this young crew some time together.

And no more garbage Chris Wondolowski.

Tech Triumph.

It's very easy to get caught up in the young, up and coming talent in any sport, but I have to say that I really do feel like we are at least moving forward in the direction of our NT. Hopefully, this batch of youth is the beginning of an even bigger wave of young American talent choosing to play soccer over other sports. It's been said a million times but we all knew or currently know guys who were 5'6-5'10 incredible basketball players or football players that were either too short or never were going to have the build to play professionally, but those kind of size limitations don't prevent you from having a great career in soccer (unless you want to be a centerback or goalie, in some cases).

Honestly, starting now, we should be exclusively focused on getting ready for 2022, and every game from here on out should be open tryouts for the Qatar qualifying roster. No spots should be guaranteed and everyone should be given an equal shake. To hell with 'loyalties' for longevity and damn any attempt to legitimize the MLS by favoring their players. The best roster plays, period.

Unfortunately, I have seen nothing that makes me believe they are actually going this way.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

To hell with 'loyalties' for longevity and damn any attempt to legitimize the MLS by favoring their players. The best roster plays, period.

Unfortunately, I have seen nothing that makes me believe they are actually going this way.

I don't see how you can have formed a realistic opinion about this considering we're still operating under an interim manager who has only called in a bunch of young guys for the only games played since we failed to qualify for the World Cup.

3.5 active discussions about VT sports.
3 active discussions about soccer
1 about food
2 about hockey
1 about golf
1 about a movie
1 about a tv show
1 about fishing.

We really need something VT sports related to happen...

We really need something good VT sports related to happen...

ftfy

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

Yup. No news is good news in the summer.

Twitter me

*2 nascar related. There's a dozen of us! Dozennn!

Amateur superstar and idiot extraordinaire.

You know where the real action is!

ESPN. The coverage is excellent, you'd be surprised at how much you can pick up.

Got Busch to tweet at ya. Very impressed.

Amateur superstar and idiot extraordinaire.

ESPN. The coverage is excellent, you'd be surprised at how much you can pick up.

"And that's the bottom line!..."

Are Pulisic and Nagbe still in the conversation for the A squad in tournaments?

Absolutely. I'd say they're both pretty firmly in the A squad. We won't know for sure until the new coach is hired.

Pulisic is a lock for sure.

I'm not so sure about Nagbe yet, but I think a lot of it depends on the manager. Given how effective he's been for Atlanta as a box-to-box #8, I think it's pretty clear that he's misused on the wing. Problem for Nagbe is that CM is very quickly becoming a strength of the USMNT with young guys like McKennie, Adams, Parks, and hopefully Durkin in the fold.

However, our winger depth is not very good at the moment (or at least a little murky), so he might end up playing there for the foreseeable future.

Nagbe is absolutely an enigma. He's been doing a lot better this year, though. I would guess at the moment, he's in the top 18, but not necessarily the starting 11.

I'd like to add that I'm really damn excited about the Friendly lineup for the fall. We'll hire a new coach after the World Cup and then he'll hit the ground running with some excellent competition:

  • June 2 against Ireland (Dublin, Ireland)
  • June 9 against France (Lyon, France)
  • New coach hire (presumably)
  • Sept. 7 reportedly against Brazil (venue TBA)
  • Sept. 11 against Mexico (Nashville, Tenn.)
  • Oct. 8-16 against Colombia and Argentina (venue TBA)
  • Nov. 15 against England (London, United Kingdom)
  • Nov. 20 against Italy (venue TBA)

I am afraid the pinnacle of US soccer excitement for a while was when Dempsey scored to go up 2-1 on Portugal. That WC had some great moments for us. It is extremely painful for me to not see the team qualify this go round. Each of the last few WC's have had pretty decent moments for the US squad. It is going to be hard to find a guy like Dempsey that even casual fans recognized because he was around for so long and did well in World Cups in particular. I really hate to see him go and miss out on this one.

The success of the USMNT on a stage like the WC, could do wonders for this country in a lot of ways.

i don't think it will be hard to find a guy like Dempsey. We have a lot of young players ready to step up and make big names for themselves. Clint didn't even go to England until he was ~24. We're going to have several players on 1st teams in 1st and 2nd divisions around Europe next year younger than Clint was when he moved there from MLS.

Don't get me wrong, missing WC sucks, but we will have 2 Gold Cups and a Copa America between now and the next World Cup for players to score big goals and make names for themselves. I know it's not the same stage as a WC, but between those tourneys, WCQ, and extensive English and Bundesliga coverage in the US, we'll have our star(s) ready to go by 2022.

Also, hopefully we take Gold Cup seriously and get a shot at the Confed Cup. It would be great for these kids to get a trial run at the WC stage.

I don't have to take this abuse from you, I've got hundreds of people dying to abuse me.

For the development of the youth, we need to treat every tournament the USMNT is in between now and 2022 as it's own World Cup. The goal of each Gold Cup should be to win and we should be looking to advance far again in the Copa America. We need this team to develop around guys like Pulisic so that we leave no doubt in 2022 qualifiers.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

It wont be easy to find a guy like Dempsey either. He had the "Captain America" moniker, scored in 3 World Cups, is tied for the all time USMNT goals scored and scored 50 some goals in the Premier League, the most by an American. He was older when he got to England, but hes still scored more goals there than any other American and paved the way for the younger generation.

Dempsey could be counted on too, our younger group of "stars" is not really proven and we don't know what we are going to get. I do believe the program as a whole should be better, but then again we don't get the result we need vs Trinidad and Tobago to get a WC bid.

I don't think that it would be a stretch to say Bradley, Altidore, and probably a few others didn't live up to expectations on national team. This was supposed to be their turn.

How's our goalkeeper situation look for 2022? Any standouts in the pipeline?

I'm really high on Zach Steffen, although there's a much bigger pool than before with Bono, Bingham, Hamid, Horvath, Yarborough, Gonzalez, and Johnson

We went from Keller to Friedel, back to Keller to Howard, never really settled on Guzan and it showed. No one really tested that outside Rimando.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

I'm biased as a DC United fan and think Hamid is great, but he hasn't broken through yet at his club in Denmark after his move this past winter.

Of the ones you listed, I think Steffen is the clear favorite to win the job long-term. I'm not sold on a lot of the other guys though. I think the 3 best young keepers in the pool right now are Steffen, Jesse Gonzalez and Bill Hamid.

Still, there's a lot of good keepers that will get a chance to claim a spot.

I liked what I saw. I think the key issue in the past has been the development of our young players. We're clearly seeing the last 2 U-20 teams are doing really good even reaching at least the quarterfinals. The other trend is that guys are taking a chance at a young age to head to Europe (Yedlin, Novakovich, Weah, McKenie, Pulisic, etc) and develop. Having said that, we're also starting to see a few come through MLS including Tyler Adams.

MLS ArmChair Analyst also had an interesting bit discussing that most of these young guys came from US Soccer Academy development program. While the Academy route is pretty expensive for families, its a start. The goal should be for MLS clubs to take on that expense and develop local players for long-term.

I would argue there are a few more guys to come including Chris Durkin and Andrew Carleton, Time will tell. As long as we keep developing, we should continue to grow at the national team level.

I think there is solid depth down the middle of the field, at Defense with John Brooks (stay Healthy please), Zimmerman, Palmer-Brown, Carter-Vickers, Miazga, At Center MID there is Will Trap, McKennie, Durkin, Carleton. We need some depth at outside back and identify who will be on wings. Hopefully we will have a solid forward with Bobby Wood, Novakovich and Sargent (Hopefully Jordan Siebatcheu chooses the US).

I would prefer Pulisic to play a free role underneath the striker. On wing he would probably have a little more responsibility. Arena played him as a Center-MID and he clearly wasn't solid on the defensive side. With a free role, he could come back to create a crowd in the midfield as needed but he would focus primarily on starting the attack.

Hokies, Local Soccer, AFC Ajax, Ravens

I am absurdly high on Carleton and have been for the last two years. I'm admittedly biased about the possibility of a true homegrown legend coming out of the Southeast, but he really does have an eye for flair and the skills to back it up to make me very optimistic about his future. I think he could turn into an important and exciting NT player. We have lacked players with that willingness to go for the excitement play, and he has absolutely no fear of that.

While the Academy route is pretty expensive for families, its a start. The goal should be for MLS clubs to take on that expense and develop local players for long-term.

With a couple exceptions, the MLS academies already are free. If you're identified as a top player in your age group, typically the club is covering the cost of development with the hope that a few players will sign homegrown player contracts.

I would prefer Pulisic to play a free role underneath the striker. On wing he would probably have a little more responsibility.

Interesting assessment, since I think it's actually the opposite. I think Pulisic is actually best on the wing because his greatest strengths are his speed & ability take take on guys 1v1 with the ball at his feet. His passing is ok, but not nearly good enough at this point to warrant playing him centrally.

I think Pulisic is actually best on the wing because his greatest strengths are his speed & ability take take on guys 1v1 with the ball at his feet.

I agree. There is a reason he plays more on the wing for BVB. Admittedly I don't follow the Bundesliga closely, but I think I've seen him play on the left occasionally. I thought Tim Weah looked great on the right during this game. Again, it was against Bolivia, so you have to take it with a grain of salt, but I was impressed with how successful his quick redistribution was in and around the box (see 28:20 for one example). Hope he either gets some playing time at PSG whether that be for their U23 side or 1st team. There was a point early in the game where he had a 1 on 1 with the keeper and blasted it right at him, so hopefully with maturity he learns to place them better.

It may seems like Pulisic is fast, but he is a space creator, you don't see him lose the ball too much and gets himself in scoring spots. He is definitely not the fastest player on the team. People are often obsessed with Speed but a player of his caliber and skill needs to be around the ball more often.

Hokies, Local Soccer, AFC Ajax, Ravens

https://www.reddit.com/r/MLS/comments/7a91xf/mls_academy_breakdown_which...

Right, not every Academy is Free, hopefully they all will be free soon. But there is also a need for identification and development, there are a few in the world such as AJAX (my favorite team), Sporting Lisbon, West Ham to name a few who are really good with youth development.

Hokies, Local Soccer, AFC Ajax, Ravens

It's also worth noting that many of the young Americans working their way up in Europe were developed in the US before making big moves. McKennie came through the FC Dallas academy (which may be the best in the country). Miazga came through the Red Bulls' academy. Yedlin came through the Seattle Sounders. Pulisic couldn't move to Europe until he was 16. A lot of people don't realize just how far player development has come.

It still has a looong, long way to go, but player development has also come a long way, and we're just starting to see some of its benefits.

That's because most US players cannot go to Europe until they are 18, its the rule. Pulisic was a different case because he has grandparents with Eastern European Roots, he was helped a lot by David Wagner (former US NT player who is now coach in Premier League)

Hokies, Local Soccer, AFC Ajax, Ravens

Right. I didn't know the details of his development, so I just wanted to point out that until he was 16, he learned to play soccer in the States.

Chris Durkin

Damn these tight ends are getting more and more versatile

The goal should be for MLS clubs to take on that expense and develop local players for long-term.

This, this and this. Progress has been made here. Some academies take this far more seriously than others (Dallas and Philly leap to mind). I think DCU and RSL were the 2 last hold outs with RSL recently going to a fee free academy at their beautiful new training complex and DCU hopefully doing the same when they move into their new digs out in Loudoun.

Beyond MLS teams, who can only account for ~500 kids in any given age group, I think we need to begin looking at how we invest in division 2 and division 3 soccer in this country. Those are the clubs who are (or could be) already associated with existing youth academies and who can give us the wide net we need at the younger development ages.

I'm not a fan of the new DA. Let clubs develop players. USSF should focus on identifying players for the pools in each age group via scouting.

I'm not trying to start a pro/rel debate since that would be fruitless, but if MLS is going to be protected, US Soccer needs to find a way to encourage growth in spending and development in the lower divisions. Maybe we find our own unique American way of doing things instead of a traditional pyramid, but we need to find something. The current system is better than it was 20 years ago, but still has a long way to go. I think the "simple" solution would be to bow down to FIFA laws regarding paying for player development via transfer bounties. That would help pump funds into smaller/lower division clubs.

Also, can the NCAA get off its high horse already? Sure, late development is the exception, not the norm, but our college system has produced some talent. Imagine if we allowed them to play Fall and Spring with more focus on training (and recovery) with less games crammed into a short period of time...

We have come a long way, and have an even longer way yet to go...

I don't have to take this abuse from you, I've got hundreds of people dying to abuse me.

Agreed, and there are 2 different thoughts about soccer in General...One is from the development aspect....no matter how much you emphasize development, there is no guarantee said player will turn up for the US National Team. There are guys across MLS and Even USL who chose to play for their birth country or their father's country, not that different when you look at English/German-Americans on the current national team.

The other aspect is the National team itself, what should be the make-up of the team? Should it be more balanced between MLS and European based players? More MLS, more Europe? and some of this debate is getting out of hand mainly because we missed the world cup. No doubt its very tough to select the National team Roster. My take on it is "All of the Above", look at Jordan Morris, he grew through the college atmosphere, we have the German-Americans and other youths going to Europe and then a lot to pick from MLS. We gotta pick the right players and by position. American coaches have an issue where their eyes light-up and they pick a lot of guys but they have issues with depth often in defense. Also Arena didn't go young this time around, i think that would have benefitted the national team in WC qualification

Hokies, Local Soccer, AFC Ajax, Ravens

I think we need to begin looking at how we invest in division 2 and division 3 soccer in this country. Those are the clubs who are (or could be) already associated with existing youth academies and who can give us the wide net we need at the younger development ages.

I think USL is doing a fantastic job in this regard. They have no illusions about what they want to be and are building out a USL D3 to launch for 2019. The fact that pro teams are launching in Statesboro, GA, Tucson, AZ, Greenville, SC and Madison, WI should be celebrated.

From a youth academy perspective, I think it's becoming more commonplace for USL teams to have their own academy. Heck, Chris Durkin is a product of this, starting out with the Richmond Kickers academy before joining DC United's academy.

Also, can the NCAA get off its high horse already? Sure, late development is the exception, not the norm, but our college system has produced some talent. Imagine if we allowed them to play Fall and Spring with more focus on training (and recovery) with less games crammed into a short period of time...

Agreed. I think the change should happen, but the reason it hasn't is a little more nuanced though. It's not just the NCAA preventing this change. There's not a consensus among those in college soccer that the change will be completely beneficial for a number of reasons. This is a good (but long) article that goes in-depth on the issue:

http://www.espn.com/sports/soccer/story/_/id/22869596/2018-world-cup-college-soccer-too-much-risk-rising-us-talent

Any comments on Ireland?

Overall it was a really disjointed game. Individually a lot of players had okay games but as a team there was very little cohesion.

Hamid was garbage. Hope to never see him him play again.

Miazga got absolutely worked on the 2nd goal. He seemed okay in the air and making tackles the rest of the game.

Vickers physically looks the part, but he seemed a step slow most of the game and had issues with passing and distribution.

Wood scored his goal just through work and anticipation - Ireland keeper should have done better handling his area.

Weah looked pretty exciting.

Mckennie (I think) had a wonderful chance with great control and strike - happened to be right at keeper.

Adams and Parker played well.

Thought the ref made multiple incorrect decisions on 50/50 calls, but they were all around midfield so no real harm done.

Sooo who read the ringer article?

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

Just did. Though there was some interesting bits in there, it's clearly biased towards the good ole boys.

Arena wasn't "Given enough time to right the ship"....

Give me a break. How much time do you need to beat Trinidad and Tobago's B squad? A manager with the tactical abilities of a pineapple could do a better job.

I agree with many of the shortcomings highlighted by these brave anonymous sources when speaking of Gulati, JK, Chandler, etc. etc. But this article glosses over any of the faults of the old guard in US Soccer, which are the primary contributors to why we're where we are now.

VT Class of '12 (MSE), MVBone, Go Hokies!

Also, the writer spoke to Arena's agent and got a sneak preview of his book? Hmm, I don't see any conflicts of interest here.

VT Class of '12 (MSE), MVBone, Go Hokies!

I thought The Ringer article was fair. It seemed like Jurgen Klinsmann was more interesting in having the position than actually carrying out the position, made a lot of decisions to put "his stamp" on things, upheaval for upheaval's sake, etc. But it was equally critical of Gulati for essentially making that unilateral decision to hire JK and then doubling down with the extension. The "old guard" didn't get the job done, JK didn't get the job done, nobody got the job done.

The best case scenario would have been treading water with the national team while overhauling US Soccer from within to be competitive in future world cups, and instead we had a manager who was so intent on overhauling everything that he couldn't even qualify for the world cup or olympics. The state of US soccer is pretty much shambolic and it's not like there is a huge next-wave of talent coming up the pipeline.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

I think it's extremely fair in its criticisms of JK and Gulati, agreed there.

VT Class of '12 (MSE), MVBone, Go Hokies!

Minus a couple things, this article really just rehashes everything that has already been mentioned. One thing that I wanted to bang my head against the wall about was Gulati reaching out to certain journalist on what decisions he should make. This is terrible from him, but makes sense considering he has very little soccer experience. Unfortunately, the new leadership elected for US Soccer will probably not make the changes that are really needed either.

I also fully expect the women's team to be in the same spot as the men in 15 years because of the lack of technical ability and awareness. There is only so much more time that they can get by based on physicality alone.

>>The only other time the USA played the same 10 field players -- Brad Guzan replaced the injured Tim Howard in goal -- was for the first away game of the Hex at Costa Rica, which it lost, 4-0.

We either don't have talent or this was a conspiracy and SunilG's last F-YOU to all American's who care about soccer. Bradley fired, JK fired, BA disgraced. The m-fer burned it to the ground with some serious style. And no one says a thing. The reporter may have been SG penname... a douchebag style of interviewing people then deciding not based on assets available, tactics, reasonable results... but based on what so and so said behind so and so's back...not unlike SG's decision making style. Demps mebbe only one worth a sh** (he evidently refused to grind on either Bradley or Klinsmann to SG). F SunilG. With that said we don't have enough ball handling talent in the middle of the field. Life is hard there and we need some guys who will slow the pace of play down with their vision, skills, and passing. Sh** is hard when you make a sweet 20-40 yard pass then gotta get right on your mark. We would have been better just banging the ball B-style outta the back rather than playing like we belong in a tier 1 league.

To be a world class central midfielder... u gotta have a coach father (Bradley may have gotten there had he stayed with Roma as his nemesis Pjanic left soon after he did to play for Juve)... or you have to circumvent American child labor laws and go play in Europe. MLS just isn't gonna develop decent central mids (beyond holding mids, and yes I wanted it so much for DNagbe). When it does we have arrived.

JMHO

Oh hey look at that, Hope Solo is actively campaigning against the US getting the 2026 World Cup.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

I'm disappointed they took the time to write that.
Deep breath.
Oh well.
I hope she gets inundated with emails and paper copies announcing the US was awarded hosting the Cup when it happens.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Her logic is flawed. An organization with all those alleged faults would be perfect to host the World Cup. See: 2018 and 2022 World Cup host selections.

VT Class of '12 (MSE), MVBone, Go Hokies!

"I think it should be awarded to a country which abides by federal law, who is transparent, who runs their nonprofit organizations in the way it should be run, who aren't hiding millions of dollars, and a company who actually answers these questions that want to be answered," Solo said. "They just ignore everybody.

"I do have a problem with an organization like that being awarded something so big. I would like to think there's another country out there who is more deserving than the United States."

Agreed, Hope. Let's give it to a place where the government is doing all the right things, like Brazil, Russia, or Qatar

To be fair, if I was so significantly underpaid versus a male counterpart, all while being the actually good/successful team, I'd probably be a little bit salty too.

The logic is bad because the US needs to get this bid to keep soccer on everyone's minds here, but I see her point

She's upset because she's been ostracized from the women's program for generally being a bad person. Mouthed off one too many times on the field, which was tough to stomach after her domestic abuse charges. Tried to run for the head of US Soccer and got 1.4% of the vote. She salty because the soccer world told her to GTFO&STFU

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Sad because I thought she was extremely well qualified before that incident

Edit nvm

VB born, class of '14

Yeah, we shouldn't reward a system that allows it's players, who drunkenly beat the shit out of their family members, the ability to continue to play as a representative of our country

Oh, wait... Hope...

WOW against the run of play Julian Green oh my!

VB born, class of '14

You can't take too much from these results but individually, these young defenders we're playing are playing a promising game. France isn't pushing too hard but we seem more composed than our age at the back.

VT Class of '12 (MSE), MVBone, Go Hokies!

Agreed, the experience gained is more important than once result. But its hard to ignore the enormous disparity of talent between France's studs and our youngsters.

VB born, class of '14

I don't see how it's anything but Stefen's job to lose to be honest. No other young keeper in our ranks comes close.

VT Class of '12 (MSE), MVBone, Go Hokies!

He looked great. So did some of our young defenders. About time we had some mean enforcer types on the back line again.

Tim Parker had an especially good game I thought. At 25, he's not as young as CCV (20) or Miazga (22), but he impressed me the most out there.

He's exactly who I was thinking of when I wrote that. Fucking Ginger Golem killing it out there.

Bumping this because its the one year anniversary of the USMNT shitting itself on the field and missing the World Cup.

In response, US Soccer totally remade itself...oh wait, no it hasn't. It put in what looks like a figurehead GM spot and they've barely interviewed any managers. SMDH

But Muh youth!!!! Seriously US soccer is abysmal

Taylor, looking desperately throws it deep..HAS A MAN OPEN DANNY COALE WITH A CATCH ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE FIVE!!!!....hes still open

Yeah, doesn't matter that we have a young squad with lots of raw natural talent getting experience, because if nobody develops them, it'll be yet another generation squandered because of the ineptitude of the federation. We have the players. We just need upper management to unfuck themselves. It's not like there aren't a ton of models for how to run a soccer federation. We just need the suits to stop trying to reinvent the fucking wheel just to try and squeeze out a few extra bucks. You know what makes money? WINNING TEAMS.

Dammit! I was hoping for some exciting/good news. This is starting to creep toward Miami/UNC levels of squandering talent.

Now, by commenting, I will only add to the bumpage and unread comment count to spread the letdown to other USMNT fans.

Whatever. It was one bad year.

Seasonal Brew means High ABV for football season and standard the rest of the year.

Something something Gooooooooooooooooooal

uva - the taint of the ACC
XL Jockstraps 34 - Ascots 31
#15 Straight

Look the uswnt went to Trinidad and Tobago and was up 4-0 at the half on the anniversary of the biggest collapse in recent memory

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

Looks like USA is going with a MLS coach go figure ๐Ÿ˜’๐Ÿ˜’

Tales told of battles won
Of things we've done
Caligula would grin

Unofficial Landers Nolley score keeper

Berhalter is a good choice IMO.

Knows how to get the best out of his players and put them in the best position to succeed - Gyasi Zardes had a career year under him this season and was tied for fourth in MLS with 19 goals.

He's very tactically sound, and MLS counterparts like Patrick Vieria & Dome Torrent have complimented him after playing his Columbus teams.

I'm still annoyed they didn't even entertain the interest from Lopetegui.

Hokie fan | W&M grad

His agent denied those reports.

Grant Wahl (who reported about Lopetegui's overtures) is generally pretty reliable, but I'm not sure why Lopetegui's agent would deny that rumor if it actually did occur. I don't see how it behooves them to make USSF look good.

Interesting, wasn't aware of that + I hope it's true, though it feels more like damage control for both sides (getting denied for the USMNT job isn't great for his image either). That said, tell me more about Berhalter (I know nothing about him) - what's his style of play, have his teams exceeded expectations based on their talent, what else is good to know?

Hokie fan | W&M grad

Berhalter coached in the Swedish 2nd division for a year and a half before coming to MLS... so while it wasn't high-level Euro experience, he does have some and he also holds a UEFA A License.

There's also a great video on YouTube that delves into his tactics in Columbus - I can't embed while at work, but look up 'MLS Tactics Explained | Columbus Crew SC' for an excellent explainer.

I'm stealing a comment from Reddit that gives a quick rundown:

"Gregg plays modern formations and two of them (4-2-3-1, 3-5-2) are good for our current pool of players. He's not Arena. He's gotten some love from a couple guys like Viera and that TIFO youtube video shows promise of what we can be. Maybe he's not a world beater, but his teams organize pretty well, and he seems to elevate strikers, which has been a problem for us. You always hear that he does well with what he's given, which may not be high praises, but something like that should translate well into the different player selections he's given in different windows."

Allowing growth from talented players is what we need. And he brings that to the table. Guys don't feel like they have a shock collar on and will be chided for decisions. Or get no feedback whatsoever...see JK. TIf Zardes can flourish under him, he's a good coach.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Thanks guys! Heading over to check out that YouTube video now.

Hokie fan | W&M grad

Yep as a Columbus fan I'm both happy and sad about this. Berhalter is a good coach.

VT Class of '12 (MSE), MVBone, Go Hokies!

Bumping for a reminder that Gregg Berhalter and US Soccer are grimey garbage juice steaming on the roadside of hot summer's day. Getting clownshowed by fucking Venezuela. And that's after losing to Jamaica earlier in the week. Cronyism is destroying US Soccer

The future gets a big yikes from me one year on from this thread being created and six months on from the Berhalter hire.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

The firing of Jurgen is looking worse by the game.

USMNT is hot garbage and it is rotten to the core. They really just need to blow it all up and rebuild the pipeline from the bottom up.

It's a crime they are charging fans the prices they are to watch this in person.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

And that's exactly what Jurgen was trying to do. He wasn't the answer to the future of USMNT but he was exactly what we needed to start the process.

The USMNT program is awful. I don't blame any of our dual citizens for choosing Mexico or other countries over us.

looks like the future is no

21st century QBs Undefeated vs UVA:
MV7, MV5, LT3, Josh Jackson, Jerod Evans, Michael Brewer, Tyrod Taylor, Sean Glennon, and Grant Noel. That's right, UVA. You couldn't beat Grant Noel.

Wenger in, TBH

I would love this hell even giving it to Mou would be okay with me someone who understands the game atleast.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

The interview with the USSF jokers would literally go like "well, we see your 3 Premier League titles here, but sadly you have no MLS experience". I wish I was kidding.

He would never do it, but I would love it. I need Wenger back in my life. He'd do an interview and talk about how the MLS isn't "top top quality" and all the USSF people would lose their minds

I called this once Klinsmann was fired and Arena took over. Once we stop pretending MLS coaches and players can win at the international stage we'll be competitive. Until then, we've hit our high water mark and will do well to qualify for the next WC.

"It's a miracle in Blacksburg, TYROD DID IT MIKEY, TYROD DID IT!"

You know why the mens team is hot shit while the womens team is elite?

The men have nothing to play for. Theyre all pros that have safe professional careers so they dont feel the drive the way the women who are fighting just for level pay and recognition the way the mens team gets and therefor lack the basic hunger and drive the way the women play. Love watching the passion and drive the USWNT has and their hunger no matter how much they win theyre constantly fighting. The men on the other hand look a shadow of what the once were think back to the late 90s early 2000s when we werent very good but we could scrap with the best and make a game out of it something weve completely lost the ability to do. I remember our last WC run believing we could actually beat Belguim in that game and being heartbroken because I felt we shouldve gone through. Now I have no faith they can beat any teams anymore and have zero belief they can qualify for the next world cup.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

The men have nothing to play for. Theyre all pros that have safe professional careers so they dont feel the drive

I'm curious how this logic jives with literally every other men's national team ranked in the top 150 or so.

The men's national team struggles stem from exsessive faith in MLS, sub par development programs relative to who we would like to consider our peers, and probably most importantly that four other major sports draw away the best athletes in the country in a way most other federations don't have to deal with.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

Nah, he hit the nail on the head. There is no drive or energy on this team since Trinidad. It took over a year for Berhalter just to show up, and that heavily stymied a rebuilding process to "learn a new system". I highly doubt we get out of the group stage of the Gold Cup at this point. There's no fire. Where's the Cobi Jones of this team to bring the energy? The Landon Donovan to open up defenses? Or the John OBrien/ Chris Armas to run a midfield? Zak Steffen...oh boy... He's had some rough outings.

I hold out hope, but this is tough.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

I'm not sure there is a "system." That's part of the problem. We have players from all over the MLS and internationally. They all play in different systems. And when they finally get into camp for the USMNT, it's a quick trip to just get everyone together for 48 hours prior to a match. Heck, against Jamaica, there were several guys that joined the day prior and some that even joined AFTER the game. Hard to get everyone together to play for the same goal.

To further that point, the MLS teams play very different styles across the board. Anyone who saw the LAFC-DCUnited game knows this. I like Ben Olsen, but he can be outcoached very quickly. Much like almost any other US coach. He can't adapt. He preps and goes out hoping his team can get an advantage early, and if not, it's all a dice roll.

On the up-side, the U20 team is playing extremely well together. Players are starting to play with the team a lot more than just the senior team where they just show up for an exhibition and then go back about their business. These guys are the future, and once a handful of the senior team players get aged out/encouraged to move on, there will be a solid core.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

How is the "system" or lack there of a part of the problem? The USWNT follows a similar system and yet they have had sustained success over many decades. The real problem is that the USA's best male athletes do not end up playing soccer. As a whole, our nation places a lot of emphasis on football, basketball, and baseball and therefore our country's best athletes end up focusing on one of those sports (or maybe hockey depending upon where you grow up).

We don't have a style of play. Even within the MLS there are several styles. You are taking a team, tossing it together, and hoping they all can switch their style to be on the same page just overnight. It doesn't work.

Take a peek at what I wrote in the MLS thread about Arriola. He played out of his gourd the first few games for DC United. Then went and played a few friendlys with the USMNT. When he came back, he was a completely different player. And the Audi Index showed it. Either Berhalter gave him a different focus and protocol to follow, or switching systems back and forth was too much for a young player. Either way, he actually hurt DC when he came back. That shouldn't occur with a guy getting a jersey from the National senior team...

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

The USWNT follows a similar system and yet they have had sustained success over many decades.

We were also one of the only countries who took women's soccer seriously during those many decades. To the point where UNC might have had the best women's soccer team on the planet for a stretch of maybe 20 years, and if not the best, one of the top 5.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

To build on Alum's thinking...the USWNT does NOT follow the same system as the men. For years there was no professional league or opportunities for the women to play outside the National team. They were together all the time. And they played a similar style across the board, unlike the men's game.

When the men got to be 17-18-19, they had choices. Many have the American dream of going to school, so they went to college to play soccer. One of the WORST things for a player aspiring to be at the top of the game. Some went abroad to academies where they didn't know anyone and maybe not even the language. Some toiled around in the minor leagues in the US, playing U19 or USL soccer. Then bam, they all tried to get on the same page at age 22. Think an option QB in high school going to Houston for the fun and gun. Doesn't work. Yes, they all are talented, but they've been in different systems for some time. And that's hard to switch overnight for the National team.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

They were together all the time. And they played a similar style across the board, unlike the men's game.

I mean, yeah. UNC Women's Soccer was basically the feeder program of the USWNT for a very, very long time. They won something like 26 National Championships in a row playing the same style and pretty much every major player went through it. And then they hired the UNC head coach to help run the WNT when it was time to make international women's soccer a legit competition.

As far as I know, that was the only kind of national feeder program for women's soccer globally for a very, very long time.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

I don't want to start a TKP war, but both of your facts are wrong. Please do some research before spouting incorrect facts.

ok

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Yet the assertion that we simply don't have the bodies to play men's soccer at a high level is somehow factual?

VT Class of '12 (MSE), MVBone, Go Hokies!

It's clear that Iceland's population is what got them in to the World Cup. They really have the bodies for it.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

There is no formalized Women's club soccer like there is for Men's club soccer. This means that the American approach of recreational -> travel league -> HS -> college -> pro may be the best system for the Women's game right now. The Men's game is formatted where players are in academy programs from the time they are 5 or 6. They are developed for a decade before they are legally an adult and are playing against other players in similar systems. The US just began to invest in these academies and the idea of a "club" as opposed to a pro team. We are years behind European and Central/South American soccer because of this.

The real problem is that the USA's best male athletes do not end up playing soccer.

According to what? We're a nation of 327.2 million. A 2012 Forbes article placed the NBA, NHL, MLB, and NFL at around 5,000 players. That is 0.0015% of the population, roughly 0.003% of the male population. This nation absolutely can support teams at this level there just isn't infrastructure built like other nations across the world.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

Could the lack of energy be due to player personality and not creating a roster with the correct amount of emotion on it?

Every good team has players that opposing team's fans hate; it is not just goal scoring heros but villains too. I would love to see a defense anchored with the personality of a John Terry or Phil Neville and a midfield that has players unabashed in their willingness to have a mean streak like Nicky Butt or Gareth Barry.

I did enjoy watching the U20 players vs Ecuador. That game was two team going at it for the full 90 minutes. The Ecuador high press really challenged to US players to match their intensity or have to revert into a defensive shell. I do not know how many Senior Team players are on that squad but the intensity of play was great.

+1 Mexico players hated C. Jones.

Gotta agree with VT_Fencer here.

Not to disparage the athletes that play soccer across the US and especially the national squad, but football, basketball, baseball, and possibly hockey pull a lot of athletes away from soccer. If the best athletes from these sports played for the US team, that would be a GREAT team.

Also, not that I'm an expert or anything, but there were at least two starters not playing today, Pulisic, and a key defender, and other roster shuffling.

This was not the full squad, and it was just a friendly to maybe develop some future depth.

But I'm not saying the team is in good shape or anything; it needs a lot of work.

Can you imagine if Lebron or KD played goal keeper? 6'8" with a vertical that could cover all 4 corners and a wingspan that fills half the goal? How about OBJ as striker or Khalil Mack/Von Miller playing on the back line? There are enough physical freaks riding the bench in the NFL that the US should have a scary team if they would have grown up playing soccer.

Whatever. It was one bad year.

Seasonal Brew means High ABV for football season and standard the rest of the year.

Oh you mean like Tim Howard? 6' 3", considered one of the best in the world, Man U and Everton Keeper? A different skill set is required than other sports. You don't see yolked up soccer players like you do in the NFL because you don't come off from series and hit the oxygen in soccer. You don't see 6' 8" soccer players because they don't have the stamina to make a 60 yard run then get back on defense.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

And thus the legend of Peter Crouch was born.

VT Class of '12 (MSE), MVBone, Go Hokies!

Exactly! At 6' 7", Crouch was a goddamn anomaly at the professional level. It's always telling when this argument rolls around that every American's first response is "Well, we should be bigger and faster!"

It's not that simple. Soccer is a game that is far more tactical and skillful than almost any other sport we play. We have not, as a soccer culture, invested enough in youth and skill development. I have made this argument before, but the US Socc Fed needs to increase access to coaching resources, reduce the cost of licenses, and open more academies before we ever make a splash.

Look at Iceland for a perfect example. Miniscule country. 338k. They invested in their youth program and coaching up and they kicked Europe's collective ass. They have 1/10 of our population yet they can support a full, world cup caliber team, and we cannot because we have no infrastructure.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

They have 1/1000th of our population

Fixed that for you.

Old sigline: I've been cutting back on the drinking.

New Sigline: lol it's football season.

Well shit. This makes my post 100x better.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

And implementing infrastructure in a way to optimize exposure to it is an entirely different challenge than just being able to build it. Iceland is about the size of Pennsylvania and 65% of its population lives in the Reykjavik metro area.

The real problem with the US is that when it comes down to it, we don't really want to do what it takes to compete at the highest level of the sport.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

I played competitive for 12 years and I know of the legend that is Tim Howard, I know soccer is a different game, if Lebron or OBJ or Kahlil Mack were playing soccer they would not carry nearly as much weight, my point was more that if they are as explosive and athletic at the size they are now, imagine if they had started in soccer and carried the slimmer soccer physique. The US might have the largest population of freak athletes in the world we have just never prioritized soccer. Jozy was supposed to be the example of the US athlete that could have played another sport but instead chose soccer. Hard to say if the experiment was the result of the his head or his body, but it was moderately successful.

Whatever. It was one bad year.

Seasonal Brew means High ABV for football season and standard the rest of the year.

Three of the best players ever:

Lionel Messi - 5'7"
Pele - 5'8"
Diego Maradona - 5'5"

Height is not an advantage in soccer. Yes, you want a few players over 6' for certain positions. But you are so off base with this. Tall people lose their ideal center of gravity and are less coordinated with their feet. Sure, these guys might be athletic, but I guarantee you that actual soccer defenders would dispossess them more easily than shorter players. Height is an actual advantage in basketball and other sports so of course the enormous athletes will continue to play those. France just won the world cup and you don't see them with Rudy Gobert in goal.

You are right that the U.S. is missing out on talent in soccer, but it's not quite because we have our best athletes in other sports. It's because we fail to develop players with great potential due to their lack of interest in the sport (since we don't have a great soccer culture) and because they don't focus on soccer their whole childhood (American kids play multiple sports throughout the year, unlike many kids in other countries).

Soccer is much more technically driven than athletically driven. We're not good because we are missing out in developing potentially technically skilled players for the reasons I just mentioned. Imagine if a kid with Messi's talent was born in the U.S. instead. He likely would not have been as interested in soccer and he might not have focused on it.

You are right that the U.S. is missing out on talent in soccer, but it's not quite because we have our best athletes in other sports. It's because we fail to develop players with great potential due to their lack of interest in the sport (since we don't have a great soccer culture) and because they don't focus on soccer their whole childhood (American kids play multiple sports throughout the year, unlike many kids in other countries).

Doesn't your second sentence undermine your first? We don't develop our athletes as soccer players, therefore they play other sports instead.

I don't think it's necessarily the conversation to conflate athleticism with height. Athletes with a high sport-IQ like Chris Paul and Russ Wilson could have made incredible midfielders. Imagine Russ Westbrook as a keeper or defensive midfielder with the speed, burst, size and tenacity he has. Think of the best fullbacks in recent memory - we don't think Odell could have done that job incredibly well?

I don't think it's a stretch to say that our best athletes don't play soccer, but that's not trying to claim that all of our best athletes (e.g. lebron, brady, calvin johnson, trout, etc) would have been as good at soccer as they are at their own sport now.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Ive never understood this "best athletes don't play soccer" angle.

We have a lot more athletes. It's not an issue. The US Population is greater than the combined populations of England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, France, Germany, Spain and Italy.

Yes, there are great American athletes that we wish would have played soccer. But the pool of people to draw soccer players is plenty deep.

"our best athletes don't play soccer" also isn't trying to argue that "we don't have sufficient athletes to field a competitive team" -- the US doesn't have an effective infrastructure in place to identify and develop the talent to field a competitive squad, and I'd argue that the US doesn't really want that, either.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Doesn't your second sentence undermine your first? We don't develop our athletes as soccer players, therefore they play other sports instead.

No, it doesn't. The USMNT is missing technically gifted players, not freak athletes. We don't need to turn Lebron into a soccer player, we need to unlock the technically gifted soccer players that we have. Maybe I'm just explaining it poorly. But look at the best teams in the world (all have lower and usually waaaay lower population than us). They have all of these skilled players and not big huge freak athletes. Why don't we have a very skilled team? It's because we don't have a soccer culture and good development system that allows those guys to flourish. Look at Croatia or Uruguay for example. They have really good teams despite having ~1/100 of our population. Maybe a kid with the potential ability of Luka Modric (5'8" 148 and not known for his athleticism) is in the U.S. right now but we'll never know because we don't have the soccer culture driving him to play and American sports aren't fond of little guys. That is the kind of player that the U.S. needs.

Thanks for clarifying. I do agree that soccer is a sport where you don't need to be a crazy athlete to succeed and that technical ability is more important than athletic measurables. However, I still think that a lot of the players who could or would make incredible soccer players wind up playing other sports.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

That's fair, i'm sure it's true in some cases. Maybe a speedy and skilled wide receiver or a baseball player with great coordination could have made good soccer players for example. But the thought that we can translate 6'8" 250 athletes into soccer players is really off base

I don't think there's anything off-base in suggesting that a 6'8" LeBron could be a goalkeeper if he had been trained and developed as such, which is what was suggested here.

If you took the entire athlete base and lopped off football and baseball as options and only funneled those players into soccer, basketball, and ice hockey, and it had always been that way, I think it's not ridiculous to suggest that the athletic profile of a given USMNT player would be stronger, faster, etc.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

But like I said earlier, the bigger and taller players would not have the foot skills necessary. It's just harder for a 6'7" guy than a 5'7" guy to control the ball

And like I said earlier, I don't think you should conflate "better athlete" with "taller".

I think what we've seen in the NBA over the last dozen years is that even though it's possible for speed and skill to overcome size in a sport where it's an inherent advantage, it's not beyond the realm of possibility for size to preclude speed and skill, either. I think of players like Durant and Giannis who would have been stuck in the paint with their back to the basket if they played in 1995. But even outside of the "unicorns", there's definitely a happy medium of size and skill and it's not just that the two are inversely proportional.

No, Chris Wondolowski isn't gonna keep his shot down against Belgium just because he's bigger and stronger. But make Luka Modric or Ngolo Kante faster and they're better players. Give Virgil van Dijk 2 more inches on his vertical jump and he's a better player. Decrease Hugo Lloris's reaction time and he's a better player.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

We're having a different argument. There are people out there saying our best athletes are playing other sports and that's why we're not good at soccer. That's BS. We're not good because our players are not skilled enough, which directly comes from not having a good soccer culture. Period. Regardless of how fast they are, that's what needs to change. Focusing on athleticism is taking attention away from the actual issues.

Also, if these guys played soccer, they probably would not be as athletic because more focus is given to technical abilities than physical abilities in soccer, unlike some other sports.

There are people out there saying our best athletes are playing other sports and that's why we're not good at soccer.

But there's not anybody here saying that, so that's probably why we talked past each other for so many comments lol

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Hopefully, this batch of youth is the beginning of an even bigger wave of young American talent choosing to play soccer over other sports. It's been said a million times but we all knew or currently know guys who were 5'6-5'10 incredible basketball players or football players that were either too short or never were going to have the build to play professionally, but those kind of size limitations don't prevent you from having a great career in soccer (unless you want to be a centerback or goalie, in some cases).

I was saying it earlier in this thread. It was on my mind again as I decided to watch "Concrete Football" on Netflix, which is a relatively short documentary on kids growing up on the streets in Paris playing soccer wherever they can. It becomes extremely obvious that you could make a similar documentary about kids in inner city Baltimore, Harlem, etc. growing up the same way except they are all playing basketball.

I do believe we will never maximize our potential as a soccer country until there are places where that is happening in the US, AND we drastically improve our development programs and adopt a more European/South American academy style.

A point I haven't seen made yet is there are a lot of great athletes that don't have the size to play high-level football or basketball that focus on those sports through their youth careers instead of soccer.

That said, while soccer do lose a lot of talent to other sports, I don't think that's the biggest problem. Our lack of development of the kids who do play soccer is much larger IMO.

HokieSpider

we're talking about Football and Baseball players playing soccer instead.., not basketball players...

And offensive/defensive linemen probably aren't going to be playing soccer. So we're talking about RB's WR's DB's, maybe some LB's .. 5'10" - 6'4"; 190-230lb (football weight) range. If they're training for endurance rather than strength, figure they'd weigh in 10-15lb less. Baseball players generally fall in that same size range too.

Thank you, I only mentioned basketball players as GK since being 7' tall doesn't necessarily give an advantage in the midfield, but means they would cover a lot of the net. There are some amazing athletes in other sports that play faster than they should for their size, jump higher than they should for their size, can make a jump cut and spin through a small space better than they should for their size, etc and that sort of athleticism when trained and taught the sport of soccer would be a very nasty USMNT.

Whatever. It was one bad year.

Seasonal Brew means High ABV for football season and standard the rest of the year.

I'm just imagining someone being groomed from a young age like Tyreke Hill or Desean Jackson. There isn't a defender in the world that could match them for speed

I'll reiterate, without the proper training/coaching/direction, the athleticism means nothing. Think about basketball players that start later in life, like late in high school or college. There are some "athletes" but didn't turn into great basketball players until they got great coaching.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Not to disparage the athletes that play soccer across the US and especially the national squad, but football, basketball, baseball, and possibly hockey pull a lot of athletes away from soccer. If the best athletes from these sports played for the US team, that would be a GREAT team.

We need to stop with this attitude. Most coaches throughout he world will say that American players always work hard and can run for days. The problem has been and will be for the foreseeable future the lack of a soccer brain our players have and the technical skills they posses. Look at players like Iniesta, Messi, and Neymar who are 5 foot nothing or look like a stick but are some of the best players over the past two decades. These three players would never make it here because they lack your prototypical athletic build that Americans like to drool over.

Yeah I don't think this is lack of athletes, I think it's a lack of culture and structure.

VT Class of '12 (MSE), MVBone, Go Hokies!

people criticize the US team for being so poor coming from a country of 350+ million, the point being we should be fielding better athletes and better skilled players from such a large population.

The posts above are intended to highlight the what-if factor of exceptional American athletes playing soccer from age 5, /and developing their soccer-specific abilities & skills along the way/ rather than playing football or basketball or even baseball.

The current crop of American soccer players are of course exceptional athletes when compared to the average person, and perhaps even equivalent to their international peers, but the point is the US should have /better/ athletes than other countries due to our population size.

In order to have those better athletes at the end of the day, they need better coaching. Without that, they are just gifted people running amok. Think about big guys coming to America to play basketball. Why do they do that? They don't get proper training/coaching in their home country. Similar but in reverse for soccer in the US.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Better skilled players, I agree. I don't see where the guys we're fielding are any less impressive athletically as our peers, but they're certainly not as technically skilled and don't have any semblance of cohesion as a team.

I mean sure, it'd be cool to see what would have happened if Lebron, Phelps, Shaun White, and Gronk all played soccer from age 4, but honestly the guys we have now could be as athletically gifted and just aren't being developed properly.

Jurgen had the right idea but we weren't ready for it. This rebuild has to start before call-ups and until changes are made within the system, it doesn't matter who you hire as coach, they're going to fail.

VT Class of '12 (MSE), MVBone, Go Hokies!

The problem is that the 300+ million number implies that there is a nationwide opportunity for elite soccer prospects to play and be developed. Our system doesn't allow such a wide net.

Playing competitive youth soccer in America costs a small fortune. Who is paying several grand per year to be in a travel soccer league? Families in relatively well-off suburbs, I'd guess. Read about the shit Clint Dempsey's family went through...and that is one of the best players to ever wear our shirt.

If we're locking out huge portions of the population because of that...people shouldn't be surprised when a possible American Messi never emerges because it turns out he's spent his whole childhood playing basketball for free in a small paved playground in his city.

American soccer's problem is in the mirror every morning, I'm sad to say.

If we're locking out huge portions of the population because of that...people shouldn't be surprised when a possible American Messi never emerges because it turns out he's spent his whole childhood playing basketball for free in a small paved playground in his city.

This is the same reason there are more high schools and colleges with basketball teams than there are with ice hockey teams. Some sports just have a much lower barrier to entry. Soccer should be one of them, and the fact that it's been cast as such institutionally is a travesty.

(edited a confusing grammar)

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Bingo. Soccer *does* have the lowest barrier to entry. You need a ball and an open flat area, that's it; drop a couple balled up shirts or rocks to mark a goal.

That's a big reason why soccer is so common around the world: pretty much anyone can afford to play, in pretty much any climate.

Someone else already pointed out the crippling emphasis we make on competition vs practice, and the expensive travel programs feed that problem.

I agree 100%, organizationally soccer in the US is a fragmented mess that leaves a lot on the table in terms of providing access to youth to get started in the sport and developing those who are interested.

Combine that with 2 other major pro sports siphoning elite athletes that other countries don't contend with (Football & Baseball) and you wind up with non-optimal inputs into a broken system.

There's two things holding back USA Soccer...
1) bad organization / structure
2) competition for players from uniquely American sports.

#2 is not going away anytime soon, so #1 needs to get fixed.

Fun topic for the off season, and lots of good points, especially around overvaluing athleticism vs soccer IQ, and the infrastructure issues.

Here's an article that's a good read about how the Dutch do it (it's pretty spartan-esk), but this whole paragraph is worth quoting: "Americans place a higher value on competition than on practice, so the balance between games and practice in the U.S. is skewed when compared with the rest of the world. It's not unusual for a teenager in the U.S. to play 100 or more games in a season, for two or three different teams, leaving little time for training and little energy for it in the infrequent moments it occurs. A result is that the development of our best players is stunted. They tend to be fast and passionate but underskilled and lacking in savvy compared with players elsewhere. "As soon as a kid here starts playing, he's got referees on the field and parents watching in lawn chairs," John Hackworth, the former coach of the U.S. under-17 national team and now the youth-development coordinator for the Philadelphia franchise in Major League Soccer, told me. "As he gets older, the game count just keeps increasing. It's counterproductive to learning and the No. 1 worst thing we do."

Hokie fan | W&M grad

In the same vein, training programs (& neighborhood play) promote small sided games where there is one ball to 6, 8, or 10 players instead of the one ball for 22 players (even more on the bench). There are not enough touches for player development by focusing on games.

You know why the mens team is hot shit while the womens team is elite?

Yes. For starters, girls are actually encouraged to play sports in the U.S. Unfortunately, you can't say that about most countries. On the same note, way more money is invested in women's sports in the U.S. than most other countries. There is a reason why most of the good women's teams are from countries with decent women's rights and $.

Meanwhile, finances play a role, but by far the biggest factor for a men's national team success is simply its talent pool. The talent pool in the U.S. isn't that good because we don't have a great soccer culture yet. Remember, our athletes usually play multiple sports, whereas the men in many other countries play soccer all year. Players with raw talent born in the U.S. are less likely to reach their potential due to less interest in playing soccer all year and less access to do so, because they will probably play a bunch of sports.

I keep thinking things will start to turn since it seems like there are more and more Americans playing in Europe, but this team seems worse than anything I have seen in the past 15 years. There is not a legit star on this team. The passing and ball handling has been sloppy at best and there seems to be no one capable of leading any sort of attack on or off the ball.

I thought the generation born in the 90s as soccer's popularity was rapidly rising would be the ones to push the USMT up a rung on the international ladder, but so far nothing. I never thought the US would reach the level of the traditional powers because of the best athletes playing other sports, but I thought we would at least reach no-question-to-make-the-World-Cup status. I think the development program and the USSF deserve a lot more blame now, than 15 years ago.

Whatever. It was one bad year.

Seasonal Brew means High ABV for football season and standard the rest of the year.

Generally agree but minor nitpick

There is not a legit star on this team.

Pulisic is a star, at least by American standards (If you mean star like Messi, then obviously not). But Pulisic is really good. He's already the best American player ever in my opinion. Which makes it more frustrating that US Soccer's system can't put anything around him to take advantage of that kid's talent. There's a very real chance we squander the prime years of our best player ever.

Not ready to give up on Berhalter yet but the past weeks results certainly left a lot to be desired. I'm hoping it was the limited training time as a squad in the lead up. During the January camp when there was time to have the squad together and install the system, the product was much better. I do have some gripes with the squad selection and starting players who have proven themselves incapable of playing at this level. But I'm holding out hope that as the team continues to work together in the lead up to Gold Cup the product will improve. Losing to anyone other than Mexico will be a massive disappointment.

Ice cold take Skutt.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

Ice cold take yes, but wildly inaccurate. The athletic disparity between grown men and women is so massive that the game wouldn't even be close. In fact, I'd go to the other extreme and argue that just about any Division 1 Men's NCAA team would comfortably beat the USWNT.

I would agree with you.

I may have used 'Ice Cold' wrong. Meant bad take. There are multiple "X National Team loses to Men's Academy Team" out there and while I understand they are friendlies, look at some of the pictures. 14 year olds dwarf the women and are already far more developed physically.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

I haven't watched much soccer but would have to agree with the first part. Raw athleticism would carry them. They may be scrubs on the international stage but they aren't scrub players. Speed and strength advantages would be massive.

"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken" - Colonel Sanders via Ricky Bobby

Used to spend some time at a school with a good D1 women's soccer team and a garbage D3 beer league men's team They'd play exhibitions on a semi-regular bases. Out of season, half drunk men's team would always dog-walk the women's team. It's just not even close.

Old sigline: I've been cutting back on the drinking.

New Sigline: lol it's football season.

When I was in high school the USWNT would scrimmage U18 boys travel teams for "even" matches.

HokieSpider

The amount of people who took that seriously shocked me to be honest.

Of course the MNT would win.

I'm dumb but not that dumb.

I didn't post that article because I don't think it's to be taken seriously. There's another one from the Australian Women's team 9https://www.sportingnews.com/au/football/news/matildas-lose-to-u15s-mls-...) but they are just practice squads and really have no bearing to the larger conversation.

Usually, this is brought up in light of compensation for the athletes and just turns the whole thread into a shit show. The Men's and Women's games are totally different beasts. The US Women's Team is in a league of their own in terms of their on field production vs their competition. There is just a different degree of athleticism from the Men's Team due to sexual dimorphism.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

Don't worry, I don't want to touch on the pay disparity thing with a 10 ft pole on this board.

Still think the story was interesting on its own, but you can't draw much of a real conclusion on anything conclusion from a scrimmage.

As someone who doesn't follow US Soccer that closely unless it's the World Cup, these comments were not what I was expecting given the title of this thread.

Marshall University student.
Virginia Tech fanatic.

Original thread was from May 2018. At that time there was some hope for improvement going forward and that things would get better. In the last week we've lost to Jamaica and Venezuela. Both atrocious losses. The new stuff is in reaction to that and is recent.

Gold Cup is coming up. Winning that would make everyone feel good about the national team. Anything less is going to be a disappointment and highlight the earlier losses.

Old sigline: I've been cutting back on the drinking.

New Sigline: lol it's football season.

It's been said a lot but this all started because Jurgen was fired. I could be mistaken but I don't remember as many people here taking his side then as there are now lol. My problem with Jurgen were always his squads. He didn't always choose the best guys and he was even worse with game lineups and subs. That being said his system and game by game tactics were lightyears ahead of what we've had with American coaches. Looking back people got too caught up in the moment to see the full picture. We had some rough losses but they could be explained by coaching mistakes and bad roster choices, not a negative overall direction of US soccer. After having a clear focus on developing a squad for 2018, in 2015 and 2016 he went away from some of those players he was trying to develop in favor of old dudes like Beasley and Wondolowski. Shit didn't make any sense and helped lead to his firing, but overall it was a product of isolated bad decisions not of an overall trend. I'd put up big money that if Jurgen hadn't been fired the mens team would've easily qualified for 2018

I was always a Jurgen proponent because of his focus on developing a system all the way down to the youth levels for a consistent approach to how the national team would play. Every ODP age group would be playing the same system so that when they got to the senior squad they'd already be ready to play.

When he cut Landon Donovan from the team that just solidified his standing in my mind as the right guy for the job.

After having a clear focus on developing a squad for 2018, in 2015 and 2016 he went away from some of those players he was trying to develop in favor of old dudes like Beasley and Wondolowski. Shit didn't make any sense and helped lead to his firing

Given how sudden and sharp the change was, and how backwards it was compared to everything he had done before... It reeks of outside string pulling and ulterior motives. Realizing that Wondo and Beasley were 2 of the bigger names in the MLS at the time, you start to get a good picture of what might have been going on. Combine that with the MLS power grab of the USSF after Jurgen's firing, and.... yep

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

I really fucking hate saying I told you so but....yeah I saw this coming from a mile away, Jurgen got fired because he stood up to the MLS and that rubbed the higher ups wrong but he was absolutely right. Look at his comments and look how quickly people turned on him. It was like a 6 month delta between stating the MLS sucks and him being fired. Dude at least had a plan and we had nobody to replace him

Taylor, looking desperately throws it deep..HAS A MAN OPEN DANNY COALE WITH A CATCH ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE FIVE!!!!....hes still open

Dude at least had a plan and we had nobody to replace him

There were plenty to replace him, just not carrying on with Jurgen's plan. It was a cute thought, but the soccer culture (or lack and depth thereof) in the US didn't buy into it. He wanted every foreign born player he could get his hands on forcing the American card in several cases. And that wasn't sustainable or reasonable.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Plenty to replace him? Like who? Fucking Bruce arena? Give me a break, the US soccer job isnt a good one and most coaches arent going to touch it with a 10' pole because

1) theres a ton of oversight and interference from higher ups
2) theres not a ton of talent
3) theres enormous expectations

Really the only upside is that were in an easy conference. Jurgens concept was absolutely right. We need a system top to bottom to buy into. It's how the Dutch are good. It's how the Spaniards are good. You suck for a while with it, buy into said culture and build on it from top to bottom. You can argue that klinnsmans vision wasnt a good system but at least he had some kind of a plan.

Furthermore he absolutely had to grab foreign players to fix the absolute mess he was left by Bob Bradley with youth development. An issue were still feeling now. Notice the massive gap in talent between the ages of like 24 to 32. Theres nobody on our current roster in that age bracket that I would call a squad player even

He plugged in some stopgaps before the youth could take over. I see 0 issue with that. He also tried to bag a few talented young players (julian green zelalem etc) I see no issue with that either.

Taylor, looking desperately throws it deep..HAS A MAN OPEN DANNY COALE WITH A CATCH ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE FIVE!!!!....hes still open

There's always plenty of replacements. Whether you agree with them, or whether they take the job is a different discussion.

Agreed, we need a system. I've been banging that drum for a decade. But how Jurgen went about it rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. When half the squad is foreign born, hard to get the US-born guys chances. As you say, we would suck for a little bit, but you'd be building the system from within.

And agree there is a gap. But the younger generation is starting to "get it." We need to sink more into youth development, but the bigger issue is coaching development. The fact that states are now requiring licensure for state games without assisting in the matter means the divide between the haves and that have-nots is growing even greater. I actually am licensed, but took my own time and money to do so out of a need with 50 kids in our player pool and only one licensed coach at the time. Build up the training programs and coaching systems, giving younger kids better direction from the jump (not just dad with a whistle) and the entire system will flourish. With the over $100million surplus USSoccer had over recent years, this should be a priority.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Alright if replacements were available who would you have hired post klinnsman? I'm open to suggestions. If you're going to fire someone you need your next move planned out, anything less is just dumb.

I dont care if it rubbed people the wrong way. That's the entire point. Get the best players in until your culture of youth rises up and takes over. In order to keep your job especially for the US you absolutely must patch some of your holes with stopgaps (ala Jermaine jones) furthermore our foreign born talent was not that absurd. Look back at the world cup, and the following gold cup, and the qualifiers when we won 12 straight or whatever and saved Mexico's bacon. That was peak Jurgen and we had what 2 foreign born players on the roster? Are you saying Jermaine Jones wasnt a good move? What about brooks? Probably our only competent center back, is German. Was that a bad move?

I completely agree with building from the ground up but my entire point is US soccer has its head buried so far up the MLS' ass that it's not going to do that anytime soon. Until theres a shakeup with leadership I expect us to be pretty shitty. The problem was never Jurgen, the problem is the higher ups and the chiefs of the MLS that he pissed off

Taylor, looking desperately throws it deep..HAS A MAN OPEN DANNY COALE WITH A CATCH ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE FIVE!!!!....hes still open

How is any coach expected to institute cultural change with the oversight and interference from higher-ups you mentioned? I think that speaks to your point about nobody wanting the job as much as anything. The changes needed to execute the vision would have to be in lock-step with the entire organization which is obviously a pipe dream.

Exactly my point Jurgen was at least attempting to buck the system a bit and had been getting decent results and had a system in place. Firing him to replace him with arena? Give me a break the MLS love is absurd

Taylor, looking desperately throws it deep..HAS A MAN OPEN DANNY COALE WITH A CATCH ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE FIVE!!!!....hes still open

I don't have a dog in this fight. But every time I see this thread in the tracker, I can only think:
"US Mutant Ninja Turtles... Turtles in a half shell. Turtle Power".

And to make this post soccer related:

There's a lot that needs to change about how we develop and find players for the USMNT. It's going to take a significant culture shift before the best American athletes grow up playing soccer instead of basketball or football, but in the meantime we need to be smart with what we have. Leaving a guy like Miles Robinson out of the team, who is currently playing under a great former CB learning, how to properly maintain shape and distribute the ball as a CB, while also being an excellent one on one defender and arguably the best defender in MLS so far this season is mind boggling. He didn't grow up in the old boy system of finding future NT players, but that's something we have to move past because it's not like it's yielding great results anyway.

The "older guys" still are available and able to play at a high level. And we can't completely turn our backs on them because they are over 25 years old. Heck, some actually played in the world cup instead of dreaming about it. Hard to leave off guys like Omar Gonzalez with 50 caps, Tim Ream with 29, Bradley with 145 (and only 31 years old), and Zardes with 44. There has to be a balance of old and new. Robinson is only 19. His time is in front of him and he WILL get the chances. Berhalter is blending the new in, and it has to evolve somehow. The Gold Cup is a prime tournament to get some high level anxiety while not being THE top tournament we are aspiring to be a part of.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Hard to leave off guys like Omar Gonzalez with 50 caps

It shouldn't be that hard after you watch Omar play for about 2 minutes. They need to lose his number

Also Zardes and maybe Ream. Both can pursue other interests as far as I'm concerned.

They aren't required to play. But you need some guys that can show the prep and how to carry yourself instead of every single person being green as can be.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

I'll buy that with Ream, especially since it looks like he'll be playing LB instead of CB. I understand that you need a few veteran guys, but Zardes is terrible and Altidore is much more experienced. Pointless to bring him and leave Sargent at home.

Bottom line is that this tournament means nothing. Vets on this squad I dont need to see any more of to know they aren't good enough: Omar, Ream (but again we don't have a lot of options at LB, so fine), Trapp, Roldan, and Zardes. Play younger guys that are ready so they're ready to integrate into the squad for WC qualifiers.

๐Ÿ˜ฌ

โญโญโญโญโญโญ #YNWA

Just for comparison.
USWNT goals in 2018=52
Lionel Messi goals in 2018=51

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

I'm not really sure why this is being posted, even as a joke, because Messi scored 51 goals in 54 appearances across all club competitions & matches for Argentina.

The USWNT scored 64 goals in 20 (unbeaten) matches from what I can find for the 2018 calendar year after a quick google search and this article.

because it's silly to compare the USWNT to the USMNT, so I just picked an individual to post about...

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

I agree with that I was just uncertain about what the insinuation was behind the comparison, or if there was more to it than that.

I had a friend text one of those intentionally incendiary, "Could the USWNT beat the USMNT?" into a group text recently, and it creates a frustrating situation because the obvious answer is simply no. However, in many ways the USWNT is "better" than the MNT in their success, cohesiveness of play on the pitch, and stature among their peers in the world of Women's soccer. So it creates a situation where you seemingly insult the women with a hard "no," but in reality, I think the USWNT is far more impressive as a group within their sport than the Men's team, which is plagued by a failing "old boys network" way of going about their business and developing future talent.

So yes, I agree there is a level of incommensurability between the two teams that makes all the different discussions around the two difficult.

I had a friend text one of those intentionally incendiary, "Could the USWNT beat the USMNT?" into a group text recently, and it creates a frustrating situation because the obvious answer is simply no. there's no way to stop receiving group texts

ftfy

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

I think I'm just being salty. Why is this a relevant tweet at all?

The level of competition is so drastically different.

The USMNT is no where near the best resourced, developed, or paid in the world on the men's side of the game.

The USWNT is the best resourced, developed, and paid on the women's side of the game.

The USMNT isn't even qualifying for World Cups and Olympics while the USWNT is the favorite.

Why is this a thing?

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

Oh then you'd absolutely love the "EQUAL PAY NOW" messages out there, despite the fact that the pay levels of the USWNT is actually higher (around 13%-18% the last I saw) respective to their revenue than the pay levels of the USMNT (9%).

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

I know all the numbers. I have this conversation every few years when people decide to care about soccer again to make a point. Equal pay would, depending on the reference frame, be a terrible idea. The WWC this year has a prize pool of about $72M. The WC prize pool at Russia was about $4B.

These snide little shots though get so old. Anyone who has any knowledge of the game knows the USWNT are the best in the world at what they do. They are not the best in the world at the game of soccer.

I'm just sick of it. These women are tremendously talented. They deserve to get paid. Alex Morgan is making a projected $1M+ on salary and endorsement. I know she is one of the world's best, but comparing her salary to a Lionel Messi or a Cristiano Ronaldo is absurd. No one outside of the US Women's soccer team tunes in for their games. The entire world stops to La Liga, the Premiership, Serie A.

If they want equal pay, play in the best leagues. If you are good enough, you will be paid.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

How about just equal pay from the US national association? They play the same game for the same employer pay them the same.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Are the revenue and profits the same? Would you pay the women's basketball team the same as the mens?

Hokie fan | W&M grad

I don't know if anyone actually knows this answer but when you have a women's team that is clearly one of the best in the world and constantly a contender vs a men's team that struggles to qualify and when it does is a long shot to advance I don't see how they couldn't be drawing more interest.

(add if applicable) /s

"If Fu goes to 2 acc champ games in 4 years, I will never criticize him again." - dcwilson

Not getting into sides, just posting facts...
2018 USMNT ave attendance: 24,163
2018 USWNT ave attendance: 14,064

Teh USMNT number is a 17% drop from 2017.
The 2018 USWNT number is a 22% drop from 2017, and lowest since 2014 of 10,791.

edit:
TV ratings, 2018,
USMNT 431,818 ave
USWNT 302,421 ave

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Let's say more people than not love pie and think cake sucks. They really don't want to eat cake regardless of the quality. It's just not appealing to them. They go along having some pretty average pie. It's popular. Lots of people agree they will eat this average pie.

The bakers' association in town has been winning international competitions year after year with their cake. They set their price the same as the piemaker sets their pie. But people don't want to eat the cake. They know they are both baked goods, but there is difference between them.

National news picks up the story "How could you not justify paying the same for this average pie as this international champion of baked goods? THEY ARE BOTH BAKED GOODS. THEY SHOULD HOLD THE SAME VALUE!"

Arguments start on boards about why they are different and that's okay. People argue that a cake that can compete with pies, like cheesecake, should be allowed in pie competitions.

All the while the pie is more popular and continues making more money because there is a bigger pie fanbase. Everyone knows that this is some inferior quality pie, but they still think it is better than the best cake.

It's supply and demand. That's it. That's why there's not as much interest. I will watch men's basketball because the athleticism is off the charts. I don't watch the WNBA because only 6 players have dunked in the history of the league. Supply. And demand.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

A marriage between two loves of my life. Free markets and TKP Cake vs Pie. Beautiful.

I'm sorry I don't understand this analogy, you said people think pie is better than cake?

the right ones do

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

That's correct. The number of folks (on here) that claim cake is superior to pie is equivalent to the number of persons that attend LOLUVA's Spring Festivus.

Yes, I believe individuals who play for a national team or Olympic team should be paid the same as long as they are playing same sport no matter their sex. As for players in private professional leagues that should be based upon revenue etc.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Is this a personal belief or is it based on any type of meritocracy or business model or anything really?

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

It's a national pride thing. We should send our best athletes out to compete on the world stage as equals in their sports. Hell there are only a few sports with both men and women competing. I'm not talking about endorsements etc just base pay from the national team/olympics.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Yeah, I get what you are saying, and I love me some red, white, and blue patriotism. The problem is, this is their career. They risk serious bodily harm every single time they step on the pitch. The fact right now is men are paid more by their clubs. They stand more to lose every single time they play for the USMNT. Their families depend on them to be healthy so they can buy food, clothes, goods, etc.

Without compensation commiserate to their skills, our top stars will either walk away, or play purely out of pride.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

The USWNT and USMNT collectively bargained different agreements with US Soccer.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

If they play the same game, they'd play in the same tournament. They don't.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

Based on the amount of money they bring in to the Federation, the Women's team is actually paid more than the Men's.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Wow that escalated quickly, I wasn't even talking about equal pay, I was simply surprised by that stat.

โญโญโญโญโญโญ #YNWA

So surprised you posted in the USMNT thread with a tweet dragging the USMNT when there is a USWNT thread?

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

That stat was relevant to both teams...

Not everyone has a motive NM.

โญโญโญโญโญโญ #YNWA