Pac12 Championship Game tonight at 8pm EST for those that may have forgotten or were unaware this game was tonight.
Watching Utah vs Washington for the Pac12 championship and Rose Bowl berth is honestly a breath of fresh air. The playoff has made such a big deal out of itself that everything else feels insignificant in its wake. It's nice to watch a game where teams are just playing for a conference championship and a meaningful, traditional bowl game.
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Gonna be in Charlotte tomorrow night...I honestly have no interest in going to the ACCCG. Typically, I'd be trying to sneak away from the party, but that game is gonna suuuuck.
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How in the world is Bama UGA not a night game yet Clemson Pitt is as well as OSU NW???
Man I hope someone upends the apple cart though and OSU or Clemson loses. I just don't think Bama will. They are like a bunch of terminators or something.
They are like Ivan Drago. I bet Saban meets the other coach at midfield and it goes exactly like this.....
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I view them as like the Borg. You get a few shots in, but they adapt and just keep coming. They wear you down and finally crush you. Then your coaching staff is fired, and Saban assimilates them into his assistants, bringing their coaching knowledge into the collective and making them even more powerful.
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Memphis up 14 points in the first quarter against UCF! I was hoping for a bowl game against them, but I doubt we will get it if they win their conference.
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There's no pecking order for bowls in the American. Unless you're high enough to get the G5 spot in the NY6, you're eligible for any of the bowls. Temple went to the Military Bowl as conference champ in 2016. Last year, Memphis was a division champ, but ended up in the Liberty Bowl, which was a conditional bowl because other conferences couldn't fill their slots. (It was also a home game for them.)
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I assume they do that for match ups because Memphis vs VT more likely a win for the AAC than Tulane. Though with our run defense I'd prefer some other than tulane.
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Honestly I've never heard much criticism of Tua. But the commentators were saying "Tua, trying to do too much again" as if it were some kind theme all season.
I wouldn't be shocked at all to see Hurts in the 2nd half.
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I think Alabama gets it together in the 3rd. Their offense woke up finally, and I expect defensive adjustments from Bama. Either way we should be in for a really exciting game. Alabama is running the ball extremely well now and that is going to open up the deep shots for Tua.
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You mean the fact that everyone agreeing that the SEC would get 2 games in the playoff with a Georgia win, significantly increasing the year end payout for the whole conference, and now seeing that scenario play out as Alabama looks.... uncharacteristically pedestrian... seems a little off after watching Bama throttle literally everyone else on their schedule?
I'm curious on what happens to College Football when you're going to see 3 of the 5 power conferences locked out of the playoff, despite 2 of those 3 having a legitimate claim. Back to back years of 2 SEC teams might be the catalyst for some kind of auto bid for conference winners.
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Memphis straight up failing to keep their foot on the gas. Being outscored 14-3 in the 3rd quarter to let UCF within one score.
EDIT: UCF has now iutacored Memphis 21-3 in the second half to take the lead. Guess that talking to the league commissioner gave to the Memphis staff at halftime did the trick...
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Memphis pulled off a choke job of Arkansas proportions. I mean, I know we sucked second half this year, but they've given up a 17 point halftime lead and had 35 points dropped on them this half. They might score a TD in garbage time, but that shouldn't take away from how badly they screwed the pooch again. UCF is now 4-0 against Memphis in 2 years of play...
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While I wish Georgia had won, that would have most likely resulted in two SEC teams in the playoffs. If it was an 8 team playoff, not a problem, but in the current format that would suck. Clemson needs to demolish Pitt that way the ACC is represented in the playoffs.
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SEC media hype train is already in full force. I said before that game this afternoon, watch this be a close game and all the talk is about how great Bama and Georgia are, so the SEC gets two in again. If a two loss Georgia jumps an undefeated ND for the 3 spot coming off of a loss (in what would be nothing more than a shameless attempt to avoid the Bama rematch in the semi), there should be a revolt.
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Counterpoint: in a world where Alabama and Georgia seasons ended last week like Notre Dame, they'd both be in the playoff. I hope they at least punish Notre Dame by putting them 4th. Nobody thinks Notre Dame isnt the weakest link of any top 4 combo so if they are ranking them on quality they should be 4th, ESPECIALLY when they avoided another game where they could have lost, like Georgia.
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I know you're definitely in the camp of best four, but I cannot buy bumping an undefeated team down to move up a 2 loss team coming off of a loss. Best four is irrelevant to me. Georgia had a chance to prove it on the field tonight and lost, Oklahoma should get the nod. You're basically saying Georgia should move up a spot and get in over Oklahoma because of a "quality loss." That's just bogus to me.
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I'm not saying Georgia should be in, necessarily, I'm just saying you have to acknowledge that Notre Dame is completely avoiding a chance to lose by not having another game like everyone else. I think a simple punishment for that is putting them 4th, which I also think is fair because I bet they are a dog by Vegas on a neutral field to every other contender.
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If the committee did that, they would basically be admitting that you will be penalized for not playing a conference championship game. They've already done this before to the Big 12, but this would be for an undefeated team. But they've also broken this rule to get OSU and Bama in over teams who played championship games.
Lol, at this point I would almost rather just let Vegas determine the playoff. We will never get any objective criteria with this system. Call it for what it is and let college football go the way of boxing.
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The playoff is too damn subjective. If they let Georia in and then move ND back they're admitting that the conference championship is important while also saying it's irrelevant. I don't think Georgia should get in and they need to expand the playoff cause this is ridiculous.
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And if they penalize Notre Dame for not playing in a conference championship game, while at the same time conveniently forgetting that last year they put Alabama in who didn't even make it to their conference championship game, that would instantly destroy whatever credibility, integrity, or impartiality anyone claimed they had.
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It'll be Georgia because "SEC", though looking at resumes and assuming Ohio State holds on against Northwestern:
-------------------
Georgia:
Pros:
Strong SoS (opponents combined 96-60 not counting Alabama's win tonight*)
Best non-conference SoS of four possible candidates by win/loss record (24-24)
3 wins vs teams currently ranked in CFP top-25
Plays in the SEC
Won the SEC East
Cons:
Gave up a 14 point halftime lead in the SEC Championship game
Held scoreless in second half of SEC Championship game
No conference title
1-2 vs CFP top-10 including a 20pt loss to LSU
Poor non-conference schedule based on teams played (Austin Peay 5-6, UMass 4-8)
--------------------
Ohio State (assumes they win)
Pros:
Played two Power 5 teams in their non-conference schedule
Beat Michigan by 23
Won conference
3-0 vs CFP top-25 teams including a 2-0 record vs CFP top-15 teams and a 1-0 record vs CFP top-10 teams
Cons
29 point loss to Purdue (6-6)
1 point win in OT vs Maryland (5-7)
3 point win vs Nebraska (4-8)
Second weakest overall SoS of four teams: 0.481 (75-81)
Weak non-conference schedule despite playing two Power 5 teams (2-10 Oregon State, 6-6 Tulane, 6-6 TCU, 14-22 overall)
Worst non-conference schedule in terms of wins and losses of four teams
-----------------------------
Oklahoma
Pros:
Avenged only loss of season
Won conference
3-1 vs CFP top-25 including 2-1 vs CFP top-20
Decent overall SoS: 0.514 (73-69 not counting rematch with Texas*)
Cons:
Has a loss (Texas)
Weak non-conference schedule in terms of teams played and wins & losses (5-7 Florida Atlantic, 3-9 UCLA, either 9-3 or 10-2 Army, currently 17-18 overall)
1pt win over Oklahoma State (6-6)
0 games vs teams ranked in top-10 of CFP
-----------------------------------------
UCF
Pros
25-0
Beat Coastal Division Champion Pittsburgh by 31 (as of writing this the ACCCG isn't in the 4th quarter yet, so only Penn State both scored more on Pitt and beat Pitt by more)
Won 10 games by 3+ scores.
Won conference championship game with back-up QB despite trailing by 17 at half time.
Non-conference SoS by win-loss comparable to Oklahoma's (17-18)
Cons
Doesn't play in a Power 5 conference
0 games against teams in CFP top-25
Weak non-conference schedule in terms of teams played (Florida Atlantic [shared with Oklahoma], Pitt, South Carolina State) but stronger than either most of Georgia's non-conference schedule and all of Ohio State's
Weakest SoS by wins & losses: 0.473 (62-69)
* - I didn't include the results of any of the Championship games in SoS. Further, I did I count UCF's rematch with Memphis for SoS nor did I count Oklahoma's rematch with Texas for SoS.
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Except everyone was praising ND's schedule at the beginning of the year for having 5 top 20 teams. SEC schedules always look impressive at the end of the year because of perceived conference strength and teams beating up on each other. ND scheduled well and you're penalizing them for taking care of business and winning every game. If the SEC teams just have the best schedules by default, then let's just claim the SEC champion the national champion since no one will ever have a better resume.
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They have the best schedules via every single advanced metric/computer ranking, it's not some perceived human bias that has S&P, FEI, and FPI all ranking SEC teams highly.
It was actually the ACC teams, like Syracuse, NC State, and Boston College that were overrated through the back half of the year by the CFP committee compared to the advanced analytics.
I'm all for having ND in the top 4, they went undefeated against mostly P5 team schedule. I also think it's fair to put them 4th when they are a neutral dog to every other contender and didn't play a CCG. Oklahoma avenged their only loss and risked losing to an ranked opponent in the final week, is it so crazy to reward that? Especially since Clemson has been ranked above ND all year despite both being undefeated and Clemson having the weakest schedule of all the contenders, especially by S&P SOS (75th I believe), and FEI Elite team methodology (107th and worst of all P5 teams). So clearly we are all okay with ranking Clemson above them because they've looked like a better team, why not do the same with Oklahoma?
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There are only four teams that played 13 games against FBS competition (Oklahoma, Texas, Ohio State, and Northwestern), and only two of them (Big Ten teams) played 13 different teams.
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Right I should have replied to this comment. You punish ND for not playing a conference championship then move the 2 loss loser of a conference championship ahead of them. It makes no sense and undermines the entire existence of conference championships.
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At this point, as much as I hate Ohio State, I want them to win just to see how the committee justifies leaving Oklahoma, UCF and Ohio State out for Georgia because that's exactly what's going to happen.
The sooner we get to a 16-team playoff that includes all of the conference champions (LIKE EVERY OTHER NCAA SPORT), the better.
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16 is way too many teams. I highly doubt they will increase the number of total games teams play which means they would have to shorten the regular season. That would remove 1-2 games from every school. Think about how much losing the ECU game cost VT and the economic impact on Blacksburg. Athletic departments and surrounding local economies need regular season home games.
Side rant: UCF does not deserve to be in. If ND played the same schedule as UCF, we would all says that's a BS schedule and vehemently protest ND getting into the playoff.
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16 is the ten conference champions + 6 at-large. Hell, FCS football runs a 24-team tournament.
Play the first round games as home games for the higher seeded teams the week after Championship week. Play the Round of 8 in the 4 NYG games that aren't the semi-finals on NYD. Week after, play the semi-finals and then the week after the finals.
If it's too many games, go back to the old 11-game maximum schedules we used to have.
And yeah, UCF does belong. Their going undefeated two years in a row along with possibly both Oklahoma and Ohio State being left out shows why 4 was always a flawed number. 8 will be better, but 16 is the ideal because then football will be the same as every other NCAA sport.
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That is 17 games for the final 2 teams. That is too many games for amateur unpaid 18-22 year olds. We can't lose sight of that. 16 games would be wild and I'm sure we'd all love and enjoy it but football is different from every other ncaa sport. It's extremely dangerous and there are lots of players who would be playing in the playoff who have legitimate NFL careers ahead of them. The money they would be risking to fulfill fans dreams of a huge playoff is not worth it.
I don't think UGA is getting in. That's just Kirby starring the pot to increase viewership of Selection Sunday. Oklahoma is probably in. 4 teams isn't flawed and it has worked quite well. I don't see how people can cry that's it's unfair for the 5th team left out and then argue for 16 teams. Don't you think the selection of the 6 at large bids is going to be just as if not more subjective? Take a look at the rankings, there will be 4-5 teams equally deserving of the 16th spot.
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Which in my opinion is a pretty clear exploitation of their labor. The majority of those players arent risking an NFL career by playing either.
The current system already has 15 games for top 2 (unless ND is in there). This is like the NFL wanting to add 2 regular season games while simultaneously being advocates of player safety. The players union is fighting that even though players would make more money due to additional games and revenue. What does that tell you about the physical limitations and risk of football? College football players have no representation and get no say in the matter.
I think we have to separate what we want from what is fair to ask of these players. I'd love a 16 team playoff. It would be bananas. Do I think we should impose that on unpaid athletes who receive 0 benefit by playing additional games? Unequivocally no. Please dont bring up their scholarships. They currently receive those for 15 games. Asking them to play 17 for the same scholarship is wrong.
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Actually, I've worked out 8-, 16-, and (because someone asked) even as far as 24-team tournaments going all the way back to 1998 using either the CFP or BCS standings to determine at-large bids, or in the years the BCS only ranked 15 teams I used the AP poll.
For the 8-team playoff, I tried to follow every obscure rule about Notre Dame during the BCS years and also added a second bracket for years where a BCS conference champion ranked so low (e.g. Louisville 2012) that their conference lost their spot in the playoff for another at-large team (#4 Oregon, who otherwise wouldn't have gotten in). So far, that hasn't happened in the CFP years.
So far the lowest ranked non-AQ conference/Go5 conference champion in the 8-team playoff is Boise State in 2014 (20th), while the following teams all would have entered an 8-team playoff ranked below 20th as Power 5/BCS champions:
2012 #22 Louisville (Big East) - replaced with #4 Oregon
2012 Wisconsin (Big Ten), not ranked - replaced with #15 Northern Illinois (BCS year so Notre Dame took their slot
2011 #23 WVU (Big East) - replaced with #4 Stanford
2010 UConn (Big East), not ranked - replaced with #6 Ohio State
2005 #22 FSU (ACC) - replaced with #5 Oregon
2004 #21 Pitt (Big East) - replaced with #5 California
1999 #21 Stanford (Pac 10) - replaced with #6 Kansas State
I may eventually redo this so that Notre Dame gets no special considerations despite the BS during the BCS so that a Go5 champion gets in the 8-team playoff even during the BCS years and Notre Dame only gets an at-large bid if they deserve it (such as 2012, where they were #1 overall).
24-team playoff, which was done entirely because someone was curious what an FCS-style playoff would look like at the FBS level, is found here.
For the 24-team bracket, being ranked in the top-20 generally guarantees a slot. The exceptions are:
1998 - Tulane and Air Force ranked in top-20 as conference champions, garnering bids for Penn State and Oregon. Only 10 conferences at this time thus two bids instead of 1.
2001 - all five non-AQ champions ranked below 20th
2003 - Miami (OH) and Boise State both top-20, extra bid goes to Oklahoma State. (11 conferences until the Big East folds)
2004 - Boise State, Utah, Louisville all ranked in top-10 as champions of their conferences. Pittsburgh ranked 21st. Extra bid goes to Texas Tech.
2006 - Boise State, BYU both ranked in top-20. Extra bid goes to Texas A&M
2008 - Boise State, Utah both ranked in top-10. Extra bid goes to Missouri
2009 - Boise State, TCU both ranked in top-6. Extra bid goes to Stanford
2011 - TCU, Southern Miss both ranked top-20, but WVU ranked 21st as Big East Champion. No extra bid
2012 - Louisville ranked outside top-20 as Big East Champion, Wisconsin unranked as Big Ten Champion. Results in slots 19-24 being used by conference champions
2013 - UCF ranked 15th, Fresno State ranked top2-0. First year without the Big East. Extra bid goes to Texas A&M
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There's an additional reason why I think 16. Here's a list of teams since 1998 that would be left out in an 8-team playoff that would have been included in a 16-team playoff:
1999 Southern Miss ranked 17th; ahead of Pac 10 Champion Stanford; 8-3
2004 Boise State 9th; ahead of Big Ten Champion Iowa and Big East Champion Pitt; 11-0
2004 Louisville 10th; also ahead of Iowa and Pitt; 10-1
2008 Boise State 9th; ahead of Big East Champion Cincinnati and ACC Champion VT; 12-0
2008 TCU 11th; ahead of Cincinnati and VT; 10-2 -- did not win conference (Utah, ranked 6th)
2009 Boise State 6th; ahead of Oregon, Ohio State and Georgia Tech; 13-0
2010 Boise State 10th; ahead of VT and UConn; 11-1 -- did not win converence (Nevada)
2010 Nevada 15th; ahead of UConn; 12-1
---This also caused me to notice a correction I need to make later on my 16-team playoff. Boise State, not LSU, would have received the final at-large bid since Nevada would be taking what I listed as Boise State's place as WAC Champion
----
That's eight teams in 21 years that would have been excluded from an 8-team playoff because of only one bid for Go5 teams that would have been invited into a 16-team playoff. Seven of those teams would have still been taken if you just took 1-16 instead of guaranteeing slots to conference champions and five of those teams were ranked in the top-10, with one of them (2010 Boise State) getting an at-large bid in a 16-team playoff that would have been excluded in an 8-team playoff.
Before you think that 8 in 21 years isn't a lot, consider where most of these teams were 21 years ago and then consider that that's a frequency of once every 2.625 years. Basically, just slightly worse than every other year one of these teams has a season good enough to be considered a "top team" and is left out.
There's also been 25 G5 teams that have finished regular seasons ranked in the top-15 since 1998. Of those 25, 13 have finished in the top-10, and 7 have finished in the top-8 with two finishing in the top 4. 14 of these teams finished the regluar season undefeated.
So with all this information, most of which I fished up tonight, I'm seeing is more and more reason to expand to 16.
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ND should not be in the playoff. Playoff teams should have the pre requisite conference championship win in order to make the tournament. That's the point. The committee removes objectivity which completely undermines the spirit of the playoff.
The playoff in its current form has completely failed to live up to the ideals of an actual playoff, thus rendering it basically worthless.
I don't care how many teams are in the playoffs (4,8,16, etc.) but for as long as it continues to be subjective it will only ever be a "playoff" in name only.
I don't want to take anything away from NDs season. They had a great season. But to be a true playoff contender they should be required to play in and win a championship game.
The playoffs were ruined when OSU was put in over Penn State despite losing to them in the B1G championship game. Since then this whole "playoff" charade has been a fucking joke and will continue to be until something happens to change.
/rant over
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Fact check incoming:
anOSU lost a squeaker to Pedo State in the regular season. Pedo State lost to Pitt out of conference and got blown out by Michigan, but fell ass backwards into the championship game because anOSU beat Michigan. Pedo State won the conference championship, but had a worse body of work.
Not saying I disagree with you, just clarifying.
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Penn state played better at the end of the year. OSU got blown out of the water in the playoff so they clearly weren't deserving of a shot. The B1G was over rated as a whole the entire season. They had a historically awful showing as a conference in the post season. Yet during the season the "experts" perceived that the conference was actually one of the best top to bottom. That's kind of my point. The conference Champs should be in the playoff, no questions asked. Even if you "luck" your way into the championship your team deserves a shot for winning when it matters. By selecting a grossly over rated OSU team which had just lost its own conference championship in a league which turned out to be badly miscalculated by talking heads the playoff committee essentially said conference championship games don't matter and were unashamedly selecting teams with name recognition and $$$$ signs.
If it weren't for the money the conferences would be wise to just get rid of the championship games. One less potential loss for the best teams in your league and with the playoff committee signaling that you don't actually have to win it then why risk losing it? Play well during the regular season. Rest up and avoid playing another dangerous team from your own league and get into the playoff based soly on the "body of work" in the regular season a la OSU in whatever year that was (2016?).
The playoff committee is stupid and the spirit of the playoff has been tainted by the selection process. It's not a true playoff and for anyone who disagrees I have a big pile of cow shit to sell you.
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I think ND fans are delusional. I spoke to one a few weeks ago. He thinks the only team that can beat them is Bamy. That's right. You read that correctly. He thinks his team can beat Clemson, Okie, OSU, Texas & Georgia.
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The SEC Championship was already a playoff game in the classic sense (well for one team, anyway).
If Georgia makes it in over OK or Ohio St, th entire thing should just be scrapped. Georgia is obviously very good, but they lost to the two best teams they played this year and their OOC was hot garbage. That doesn't scream "at large" to me when only 4 teams make it in.
Or he'll, why not have a setup where the top 4 SEC teams play in one bracket, and the winners of the other P5 conferences play in another. And then whoever comes out plays for the Natty. The committee seems to want to come up with reasons to put as many SEC teams in as they can as it is
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I'd think with an 8 team playoff you'd have to cut it off somewhere though. If Pitt won last night would they deserve to be in over Georgia or Michigan?
I think the only way you guarantee conference champions make it is to expand to 16.
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The only reason conference champs are an issue now is because there are 4 spots and 5 conferences. If the playoff gets expanded to 8 teams, the conferences are going to set it up to guarantee that they all participate.
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I'd sure as shit rather the debate be which non-champ gets in over the current debate on if a non-champ deserves it over a champ.
Give me auto bids for the P5 and top G5 champ with 2 at large and it solves a lot of issues. There will still be debates about those final 2 but at least the teams that earn it on the field through the year long elimination gets a chair at the table.
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In an 8 team scenario Washington is already is as PAC 12 champ.
Bama v UCF
Clemson v Washington
OU v OSU
ND v Georgia
The argument would really be Georgia vs Michigan and I don't think that's a particularly tough one. 5 P5 champs, best G5 team (with a top 7 ranking), and 2 worthy at large. But that would be too awesome and make too much sense
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Good question, since UCF is ranked ahead of Washington; clearly the committee thinks UCF is better than the Huskies so it should be the Huskies playing 'Bama.
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Comments
Pac12 Championship Game tonight at 8pm EST for those that may have forgotten or were unaware this game was tonight.
Watching Utah vs Washington for the Pac12 championship and Rose Bowl berth is honestly a breath of fresh air. The playoff has made such a big deal out of itself that everything else feels insignificant in its wake. It's nice to watch a game where teams are just playing for a conference championship and a meaningful, traditional bowl game.
But it was a stinker of a game. Though seeing Larry Scott get loudly boo'd was entertaining.
You could probably hear that linebacker-runningback collision from outside of the building.
So Spencer Tears is the best receiver I hadn't heard of before tonight.
Wow! No one is at the Pac12 championship game, the stands are empty! Too bad.
Sad!
To be fair, the game kicked off at 5 PM on a Friday night local time. That's gotta be rough to plan around.
Most of the fans going to that game were in from out of town anyway. I doubt they cared about kickoff time that much.
And Bay Area traffic is no joke at that time of day.
Gonna be in Charlotte tomorrow night...I honestly have no interest in going to the ACCCG. Typically, I'd be trying to sneak away from the party, but that game is gonna suuuuck.
How in the world is Bama UGA not a night game yet Clemson Pitt is as well as OSU NW???
Man I hope someone upends the apple cart though and OSU or Clemson loses. I just don't think Bama will. They are like a bunch of terminators or something.
They are like Ivan Drago. I bet Saban meets the other coach at midfield and it goes exactly like this.....
TV.
Although, I'm not sure why ABC didn't flip Big 12 and ACC.
I view them as like the Borg. You get a few shots in, but they adapt and just keep coming. They wear you down and finally crush you. Then your coaching staff is fired, and Saban assimilates them into his assistants, bringing their coaching knowledge into the collective and making them even more powerful.
Memphis up 14 points in the first quarter against UCF! I was hoping for a bowl game against them, but I doubt we will get it if they win their conference.
There's no pecking order for bowls in the American. Unless you're high enough to get the G5 spot in the NY6, you're eligible for any of the bowls. Temple went to the Military Bowl as conference champ in 2016. Last year, Memphis was a division champ, but ended up in the Liberty Bowl, which was a conditional bowl because other conferences couldn't fill their slots. (It was also a home game for them.)
I assume they do that for match ups because Memphis vs VT more likely a win for the AAC than Tulane. Though with our run defense I'd prefer some other than tulane.
Go Dawgs!
UAB came back from the dead to win their conference in two seasons.
And they get to pick which bowl they want. New Orleans going to be lit vs Appy St.
So Saban is going to put in Hurts at halftime and win the game in the second half right?
Honestly I've never heard much criticism of Tua. But the commentators were saying "Tua, trying to do too much again" as if it were some kind theme all season.
I wouldn't be shocked at all to see Hurts in the 2nd half.
Well you were on the right track
The Georgia OL is just picking up their RBs and ramming the Alabama defense down the field. Amazing.
Georgia's OLine be like
I think Alabama gets it together in the 3rd. Their offense woke up finally, and I expect defensive adjustments from Bama. Either way we should be in for a really exciting game. Alabama is running the ball extremely well now and that is going to open up the deep shots for Tua.
Tua looks like a quarterback who is used to everything going right.
Sounds like Matt Leinart in the Rose Bowl.
Something smells fishy with this BAMA Georgia game.
You mean the fact that everyone agreeing that the SEC would get 2 games in the playoff with a Georgia win, significantly increasing the year end payout for the whole conference, and now seeing that scenario play out as Alabama looks.... uncharacteristically pedestrian... seems a little off after watching Bama throttle literally everyone else on their schedule?
I'm curious on what happens to College Football when you're going to see 3 of the 5 power conferences locked out of the playoff, despite 2 of those 3 having a legitimate claim. Back to back years of 2 SEC teams might be the catalyst for some kind of auto bid for conference winners.
Obviously in this scenario the BIG10 & BIG12 would be left out, with ND and Clemson (assuming they beat Pitt) being the other two teams.
Here's the thing though, remember when everyone was hating on the BIG12 champ for not playing in a championship game? Notre Dame......
Exactly what I meant. $$$$$$$$$ for the SEC.
Memphis straight up failing to keep their foot on the gas. Being outscored 14-3 in the 3rd quarter to let UCF within one score.
EDIT: UCF has now iutacored Memphis 21-3 in the second half to take the lead. Guess that talking to the league commissioner gave to the Memphis staff at halftime did the trick...
Sounds familiar . . .
Memphis O was all Wildcat 1st half. UCF made big adjustments and stopped the run and game over.
UCF QB Mack Jr outta Norfolk also played like a beast.
Memphis pulled off a choke job of Arkansas proportions. I mean, I know we sucked second half this year, but they've given up a 17 point halftime lead and had 35 points dropped on them this half. They might score a TD in garbage time, but that shouldn't take away from how badly they screwed the pooch again. UCF is now 4-0 against Memphis in 2 years of play...
Well looks like Memphis and I took a nap at the same time wtf happened here.
Breaks my heart to see Georgia choke one away. Absolutely breaks my heart
FUCK BAMA!!!
That is all.
Dude I know most of y'all hate Alabama but man I am so happy for Jalen Hurts. What an incredible redemption story for that young man.
I thought with Tua struggling they'd come out of the half with him (even if only for a drive or two).
Nick really didn't trust Jalen there. I'm a little surprised; Jalen is still a really good QB.
While I still stand by my "Fuck Bama" comment, that was cool to see. Being happy for Jalen and hating Bama aren't mutually exclusive.
Georgia seems to have an Alabama curse upon them in championship games......
I want to see Pitt destroyed into oblivion, I probably hate them more than Miami. Am I the only one?
Nope - me too ever since Antonio Bryant and Larry Fitzgerald back in the day.
I thought it was pretty poetic that Pitt beat Clemson with a Kicker named Blewitt.
I want to see them win with a QB named Pickett now.
Of course, they'll have to muster a little more defense than that for it to be possible...
Nope. I hate Nardouchebag with a passion.
I grew up in WV, they are my #1 on the hate scale.
Sweet Caroline .... Eat Sht Pitt!
Great start for Pitt!
While I wish Georgia had won, that would have most likely resulted in two SEC teams in the playoffs. If it was an 8 team playoff, not a problem, but in the current format that would suck. Clemson needs to demolish Pitt that way the ACC is represented in the playoffs.
With a win, Clemson is in. The only question left is Oklahoma vs Ohio state.
Fuck Pitt
As much of this as possible please!
This is going to get out of hand quickly
Goodnight pitt
SEC media hype train is already in full force. I said before that game this afternoon, watch this be a close game and all the talk is about how great Bama and Georgia are, so the SEC gets two in again. If a two loss Georgia jumps an undefeated ND for the 3 spot coming off of a loss (in what would be nothing more than a shameless attempt to avoid the Bama rematch in the semi), there should be a revolt.
Counterpoint: in a world where Alabama and Georgia seasons ended last week like Notre Dame, they'd both be in the playoff. I hope they at least punish Notre Dame by putting them 4th. Nobody thinks Notre Dame isnt the weakest link of any top 4 combo so if they are ranking them on quality they should be 4th, ESPECIALLY when they avoided another game where they could have lost, like Georgia.
You forgot to add "It just means more"
I know you're definitely in the camp of best four, but I cannot buy bumping an undefeated team down to move up a 2 loss team coming off of a loss. Best four is irrelevant to me. Georgia had a chance to prove it on the field tonight and lost, Oklahoma should get the nod. You're basically saying Georgia should move up a spot and get in over Oklahoma because of a "quality loss." That's just bogus to me.
I'm not saying Georgia should be in, necessarily, I'm just saying you have to acknowledge that Notre Dame is completely avoiding a chance to lose by not having another game like everyone else. I think a simple punishment for that is putting them 4th, which I also think is fair because I bet they are a dog by Vegas on a neutral field to every other contender.
If the committee did that, they would basically be admitting that you will be penalized for not playing a conference championship game. They've already done this before to the Big 12, but this would be for an undefeated team. But they've also broken this rule to get OSU and Bama in over teams who played championship games.
Lol, at this point I would almost rather just let Vegas determine the playoff. We will never get any objective criteria with this system. Call it for what it is and let college football go the way of boxing.
The playoff is too damn subjective. If they let Georia in and then move ND back they're admitting that the conference championship is important while also saying it's irrelevant. I don't think Georgia should get in and they need to expand the playoff cause this is ridiculous.
And if they penalize Notre Dame for not playing in a conference championship game, while at the same time conveniently forgetting that last year they put Alabama in who didn't even make it to their conference championship game, that would instantly destroy whatever credibility, integrity, or impartiality anyone claimed they had.
It'll be Georgia because "SEC", though looking at resumes and assuming Ohio State holds on against Northwestern:
-------------------
Georgia:
Pros:
Cons:
--------------------
Ohio State (assumes they win)
Pros:
Cons
-----------------------------
Oklahoma
Pros:
Cons:
-----------------------------------------
UCF
Pros
Cons
* - I didn't include the results of any of the Championship games in SoS. Further, I did I count UCF's rematch with Memphis for SoS nor did I count Oklahoma's rematch with Texas for SoS.
You mean because they didn't play a game against teams like the Citadel, Austin Peay, or Furman?
Not sure that's relevant to the discussion, especially since Alabama and Georgia played tougher schedules.
Except everyone was praising ND's schedule at the beginning of the year for having 5 top 20 teams. SEC schedules always look impressive at the end of the year because of perceived conference strength and teams beating up on each other. ND scheduled well and you're penalizing them for taking care of business and winning every game. If the SEC teams just have the best schedules by default, then let's just claim the SEC champion the national champion since no one will ever have a better resume.
They have the best schedules via every single advanced metric/computer ranking, it's not some perceived human bias that has S&P, FEI, and FPI all ranking SEC teams highly.
It was actually the ACC teams, like Syracuse, NC State, and Boston College that were overrated through the back half of the year by the CFP committee compared to the advanced analytics.
I'm all for having ND in the top 4, they went undefeated against mostly P5 team schedule. I also think it's fair to put them 4th when they are a neutral dog to every other contender and didn't play a CCG. Oklahoma avenged their only loss and risked losing to an ranked opponent in the final week, is it so crazy to reward that? Especially since Clemson has been ranked above ND all year despite both being undefeated and Clemson having the weakest schedule of all the contenders, especially by S&P SOS (75th I believe), and FEI Elite team methodology (107th and worst of all P5 teams). So clearly we are all okay with ranking Clemson above them because they've looked like a better team, why not do the same with Oklahoma?
There are only four teams that played 13 games against FBS competition (Oklahoma, Texas, Ohio State, and Northwestern), and only two of them (Big Ten teams) played 13 different teams.
Herbie-"If Georgia moves at all, they should move up to #3"
In other words:
So Big 12, Big 10, and Pac16 champs get left out. Not to mention 27-0 UCF. It's like they're trying to manufacturer reasons for a bigger playoff.
Right I should have replied to this comment. You punish ND for not playing a conference championship then move the 2 loss loser of a conference championship ahead of them. It makes no sense and undermines the entire existence of conference championships.
If so, get ready for Bama v Georgia again!
It looks really cold in Boise.
Pitt's D is legit.
Are they too legit to quit!
It would seem no. I suppose Clemson can break almost anyone.
Bama, Clemson, ND, Oklahoma
Anything else is overthinking it.
I think this will be it, but I want them to flip ND and Oklahoma.
Agreed
Is it just me or does Trevor Lawerence have a very punchable face?
And there it is, Herbie has Georgia at #3 even though they lost. SEC Homer
At this point, as much as I hate Ohio State, I want them to win just to see how the committee justifies leaving Oklahoma, UCF and Ohio State out for Georgia because that's exactly what's going to happen.
The sooner we get to a 16-team playoff that includes all of the conference champions (LIKE EVERY OTHER NCAA SPORT), the better.
16 is way too many teams. I highly doubt they will increase the number of total games teams play which means they would have to shorten the regular season. That would remove 1-2 games from every school. Think about how much losing the ECU game cost VT and the economic impact on Blacksburg. Athletic departments and surrounding local economies need regular season home games.
Side rant: UCF does not deserve to be in. If ND played the same schedule as UCF, we would all says that's a BS schedule and vehemently protest ND getting into the playoff.
16 is the ten conference champions + 6 at-large. Hell, FCS football runs a 24-team tournament.
Play the first round games as home games for the higher seeded teams the week after Championship week. Play the Round of 8 in the 4 NYG games that aren't the semi-finals on NYD. Week after, play the semi-finals and then the week after the finals.
If it's too many games, go back to the old 11-game maximum schedules we used to have.
And yeah, UCF does belong. Their going undefeated two years in a row along with possibly both Oklahoma and Ohio State being left out shows why 4 was always a flawed number. 8 will be better, but 16 is the ideal because then football will be the same as every other NCAA sport.
That is 17 games for the final 2 teams. That is too many games for amateur unpaid 18-22 year olds. We can't lose sight of that. 16 games would be wild and I'm sure we'd all love and enjoy it but football is different from every other ncaa sport. It's extremely dangerous and there are lots of players who would be playing in the playoff who have legitimate NFL careers ahead of them. The money they would be risking to fulfill fans dreams of a huge playoff is not worth it.
I don't think UGA is getting in. That's just Kirby starring the pot to increase viewership of Selection Sunday. Oklahoma is probably in. 4 teams isn't flawed and it has worked quite well. I don't see how people can cry that's it's unfair for the 5th team left out and then argue for 16 teams. Don't you think the selection of the 6 at large bids is going to be just as if not more subjective? Take a look at the rankings, there will be 4-5 teams equally deserving of the 16th spot.
Counterpoint - the final two FCS teams play 15-16 games (11 regular season plus 4-5 playoff games).
Which in my opinion is a pretty clear exploitation of their labor. The majority of those players arent risking an NFL career by playing either.
The current system already has 15 games for top 2 (unless ND is in there). This is like the NFL wanting to add 2 regular season games while simultaneously being advocates of player safety. The players union is fighting that even though players would make more money due to additional games and revenue. What does that tell you about the physical limitations and risk of football? College football players have no representation and get no say in the matter.
I think we have to separate what we want from what is fair to ask of these players. I'd love a 16 team playoff. It would be bananas. Do I think we should impose that on unpaid athletes who receive 0 benefit by playing additional games? Unequivocally no. Please dont bring up their scholarships. They currently receive those for 15 games. Asking them to play 17 for the same scholarship is wrong.
Actually, I've worked out 8-, 16-, and (because someone asked) even as far as 24-team tournaments going all the way back to 1998 using either the CFP or BCS standings to determine at-large bids, or in the years the BCS only ranked 15 teams I used the AP poll.
For the 8-team playoff, I tried to follow every obscure rule about Notre Dame during the BCS years and also added a second bracket for years where a BCS conference champion ranked so low (e.g. Louisville 2012) that their conference lost their spot in the playoff for another at-large team (#4 Oregon, who otherwise wouldn't have gotten in). So far, that hasn't happened in the CFP years.
So far the lowest ranked non-AQ conference/Go5 conference champion in the 8-team playoff is Boise State in 2014 (20th), while the following teams all would have entered an 8-team playoff ranked below 20th as Power 5/BCS champions:
2012 #22 Louisville (Big East) - replaced with #4 Oregon
2012 Wisconsin (Big Ten), not ranked - replaced with #15 Northern Illinois (BCS year so Notre Dame took their slot
2011 #23 WVU (Big East) - replaced with #4 Stanford
2010 UConn (Big East), not ranked - replaced with #6 Ohio State
2005 #22 FSU (ACC) - replaced with #5 Oregon
2004 #21 Pitt (Big East) - replaced with #5 California
1999 #21 Stanford (Pac 10) - replaced with #6 Kansas State
I may eventually redo this so that Notre Dame gets no special considerations despite the BS during the BCS so that a Go5 champion gets in the 8-team playoff even during the BCS years and Notre Dame only gets an at-large bid if they deserve it (such as 2012, where they were #1 overall).
8- and 16-team playoffs can be found here.
24-team playoff, which was done entirely because someone was curious what an FCS-style playoff would look like at the FBS level, is found here.
For the 24-team bracket, being ranked in the top-20 generally guarantees a slot. The exceptions are:
1998 - Tulane and Air Force ranked in top-20 as conference champions, garnering bids for Penn State and Oregon. Only 10 conferences at this time thus two bids instead of 1.
2001 - all five non-AQ champions ranked below 20th
2003 - Miami (OH) and Boise State both top-20, extra bid goes to Oklahoma State. (11 conferences until the Big East folds)
2004 - Boise State, Utah, Louisville all ranked in top-10 as champions of their conferences. Pittsburgh ranked 21st. Extra bid goes to Texas Tech.
2006 - Boise State, BYU both ranked in top-20. Extra bid goes to Texas A&M
2008 - Boise State, Utah both ranked in top-10. Extra bid goes to Missouri
2009 - Boise State, TCU both ranked in top-6. Extra bid goes to Stanford
2011 - TCU, Southern Miss both ranked top-20, but WVU ranked 21st as Big East Champion. No extra bid
2012 - Louisville ranked outside top-20 as Big East Champion, Wisconsin unranked as Big Ten Champion. Results in slots 19-24 being used by conference champions
2013 - UCF ranked 15th, Fresno State ranked top2-0. First year without the Big East. Extra bid goes to Texas A&M
There's an additional reason why I think 16. Here's a list of teams since 1998 that would be left out in an 8-team playoff that would have been included in a 16-team playoff:
1999 Southern Miss ranked 17th; ahead of Pac 10 Champion Stanford; 8-3
2004 Boise State 9th; ahead of Big Ten Champion Iowa and Big East Champion Pitt; 11-0
2004 Louisville 10th; also ahead of Iowa and Pitt; 10-1
2008 Boise State 9th; ahead of Big East Champion Cincinnati and ACC Champion VT; 12-0
2008 TCU 11th; ahead of Cincinnati and VT; 10-2 -- did not win conference (Utah, ranked 6th)
2009 Boise State 6th; ahead of Oregon, Ohio State and Georgia Tech; 13-0
2010 Boise State 10th; ahead of VT and UConn; 11-1 -- did not win converence (Nevada)
2010 Nevada 15th; ahead of UConn; 12-1
---This also caused me to notice a correction I need to make later on my 16-team playoff. Boise State, not LSU, would have received the final at-large bid since Nevada would be taking what I listed as Boise State's place as WAC Champion
----
That's eight teams in 21 years that would have been excluded from an 8-team playoff because of only one bid for Go5 teams that would have been invited into a 16-team playoff. Seven of those teams would have still been taken if you just took 1-16 instead of guaranteeing slots to conference champions and five of those teams were ranked in the top-10, with one of them (2010 Boise State) getting an at-large bid in a 16-team playoff that would have been excluded in an 8-team playoff.
Before you think that 8 in 21 years isn't a lot, consider where most of these teams were 21 years ago and then consider that that's a frequency of once every 2.625 years. Basically, just slightly worse than every other year one of these teams has a season good enough to be considered a "top team" and is left out.
There's also been 25 G5 teams that have finished regular seasons ranked in the top-15 since 1998. Of those 25, 13 have finished in the top-10, and 7 have finished in the top-8 with two finishing in the top 4. 14 of these teams finished the regluar season undefeated.
So with all this information, most of which I fished up tonight, I'm seeing is more and more reason to expand to 16.
Rant incoming.
ND should not be in the playoff. Playoff teams should have the pre requisite conference championship win in order to make the tournament. That's the point. The committee removes objectivity which completely undermines the spirit of the playoff.
The playoff in its current form has completely failed to live up to the ideals of an actual playoff, thus rendering it basically worthless.
I don't care how many teams are in the playoffs (4,8,16, etc.) but for as long as it continues to be subjective it will only ever be a "playoff" in name only.
I don't want to take anything away from NDs season. They had a great season. But to be a true playoff contender they should be required to play in and win a championship game.
The playoffs were ruined when OSU was put in over Penn State despite losing to them in the B1G championship game. Since then this whole "playoff" charade has been a fucking joke and will continue to be until something happens to change.
/rant over
Fact check incoming:
anOSU lost a squeaker to Pedo State in the regular season. Pedo State lost to Pitt out of conference and got blown out by Michigan, but fell ass backwards into the championship game because anOSU beat Michigan. Pedo State won the conference championship, but had a worse body of work.
Not saying I disagree with you, just clarifying.
Penn state played better at the end of the year. OSU got blown out of the water in the playoff so they clearly weren't deserving of a shot. The B1G was over rated as a whole the entire season. They had a historically awful showing as a conference in the post season. Yet during the season the "experts" perceived that the conference was actually one of the best top to bottom. That's kind of my point. The conference Champs should be in the playoff, no questions asked. Even if you "luck" your way into the championship your team deserves a shot for winning when it matters. By selecting a grossly over rated OSU team which had just lost its own conference championship in a league which turned out to be badly miscalculated by talking heads the playoff committee essentially said conference championship games don't matter and were unashamedly selecting teams with name recognition and $$$$ signs.
If it weren't for the money the conferences would be wise to just get rid of the championship games. One less potential loss for the best teams in your league and with the playoff committee signaling that you don't actually have to win it then why risk losing it? Play well during the regular season. Rest up and avoid playing another dangerous team from your own league and get into the playoff based soly on the "body of work" in the regular season a la OSU in whatever year that was (2016?).
The playoff committee is stupid and the spirit of the playoff has been tainted by the selection process. It's not a true playoff and for anyone who disagrees I have a big pile of cow shit to sell you.
I think ND fans are delusional. I spoke to one a few weeks ago. He thinks the only team that can beat them is Bamy. That's right. You read that correctly. He thinks his team can beat Clemson, Okie, OSU, Texas & Georgia.
The SEC Championship was already a playoff game in the classic sense (well for one team, anyway).
If Georgia makes it in over OK or Ohio St, th entire thing should just be scrapped. Georgia is obviously very good, but they lost to the two best teams they played this year and their OOC was hot garbage. That doesn't scream "at large" to me when only 4 teams make it in.
Or he'll, why not have a setup where the top 4 SEC teams play in one bracket, and the winners of the other P5 conferences play in another. And then whoever comes out plays for the Natty. The committee seems to want to come up with reasons to put as many SEC teams in as they can as it is
If the playoffs were 8 teams, who would we be debating over for the last spot. Washington or Michigan?
#1 Bama vs #8 UCF
#2 Clemson vs #7 Michigan/Washington
#3 Oklahoma vs #6 Ohio State
#4 Notre Dame vs #5 Georgia
The debate should be Michigan or Georgia. Washington should be in as a conference champ.
I'd think with an 8 team playoff you'd have to cut it off somewhere though. If Pitt won last night would they deserve to be in over Georgia or Michigan?
I think the only way you guarantee conference champions make it is to expand to 16.
The only reason conference champs are an issue now is because there are 4 spots and 5 conferences. If the playoff gets expanded to 8 teams, the conferences are going to set it up to guarantee that they all participate.
I'd sure as shit rather the debate be which non-champ gets in over the current debate on if a non-champ deserves it over a champ.
Give me auto bids for the P5 and top G5 champ with 2 at large and it solves a lot of issues. There will still be debates about those final 2 but at least the teams that earn it on the field through the year long elimination gets a chair at the table.
In an 8 team scenario Washington is already is as PAC 12 champ.
Bama v UCF
Clemson v Washington
OU v OSU
ND v Georgia
The argument would really be Georgia vs Michigan and I don't think that's a particularly tough one. 5 P5 champs, best G5 team (with a top 7 ranking), and 2 worthy at large. But that would be too awesome and make too much sense
Why would Washington get a better seed than UCF?
Good question, since UCF is ranked ahead of Washington; clearly the committee thinks UCF is better than the Huskies so it should be the Huskies playing 'Bama.
No other games thread for this weekend, but surprised no one has mentioned the Army uniforms for today. They look awesome! Go Army! Beat Navy! (sister a West Point Grad)
https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2018/12/8/18127157/army-navy-u...