Big same. It was as fun to watch as any offense you'll see nowadays, because the defense would know what was coming but by the 4th quarter they would be too gassed to stop it. This LOLUVA game is a perfect example of it--on our final TD drive, damn near every run was downhill.
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A LOT of runningbacks hate running out of shotgun. You have no head start, the play is delayed, and no fullback. Just look at Jalen Hurd's temper tantrum at Tennessee
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Do you need a FB or could an H-back or having a pulling lineman on every play satisfy the lead block requirement. I know it wouldn't be a true I-formation, but the principles of downhill, power running would still exist
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Man, Mr. French, you give me the nostalgias with this pull.
I met Druck 2 years later at TOTS...nice guy.
Those teams gave me some of the best VT memories that I have.
We didn't always win, but the Hokies were ALWAYS more physical....
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By then he may have been humbled by his time in San Fran. While in school, Druck could be a bit of a headache. It made it hard to root for him some times.
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Druck story for you. It was spring of 1995. My birthday night. went to a bar downtown where my favorite band at the time was playing. Of course, since it was my birthday, I got a shoutout from the band. Druck was there, beer in each hand and very happy to be there. When he heard the shoutout, he came over put his arm around me and we sang the next song together, very loudly. Good times...
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We didn't always win, but the Hokies were ALWAYS more physical....
Meh, '95-'97(Jan) were the best years Tech had as a program (until '99). So while they didn't win EVERY game, I would classify as they MOSTLY to ALMOST ALWAYS won.
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the vick flick was truly unbelievable. guy threw 50 yarders with his wrist alone. i know he's not exactly celebrated around here (or anywhere) but marcus had the same thing. genetic fucking beasts.
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Having witnessed both, I always thought Truck had the strongest arm I ever saw. Until I saw Vick. Fans had heard about his speed, but I remember his first game against JMU, I saw him roll left and throw an absolute doen field. That is when I knew how special he was.
Honorable mention to LT3. He threw some missles too.
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LT3 had a cannon but you didn't always know where it was going. Vick had a cannon with pinpoint accuracy.
It really does boggle the mind that Atlanta tried to make him a runner who could throw. He was awesome here because he was a great thrower who could kill you when you didn't respect his ability to run. Outside of his legal issues, there is no reason he shouldn't have been a legitimate game changing player in the NFL but he was shoehorned into a role that didn't suit his skills.
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I think MV7 was forced into action way too prematurely in Atlanta because of the hype around him, and Atlanta took advantage of the excitement factor with his legs, leading him to never fully develop in the passing game. He did have a cannon and good accuracy coming out of VT, but outside of bombs to Andre Davis, we didn't run a very complex passing attack. I don't think he had the time or maturity at that age when he got to Atlanta to learn the NFL passing game, and he ultimately relied on his athleticism.
I think we honestly saw how great he could truly be when he became a student of the game under Reid in Philly. Had he devoted himself fully and stayed out of trouble, it's hard to tell how ridiculously good he could have been in ATL.
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First QB to win a road playoff game at Lambeau and I believe he was 23. Amazing talent, but Atlanta confirmed to his limitations not vice versa. By his own admission, Mike didn't get into the playbook and film like he should have.
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Yeah Mike admits he didn't study as much as he should, then in philly when he did he had his best year. To think what he could have been starting earlier and not doing dumb things.
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Not ready initially and not spending the next 4-5 years in getting up to speed is different. Mora isn't going to punish his work ethic as he still has a relationship with MV. He had the opportunity to let his athletic ability buy time to learn the passing tree(s) and pre/post snaps reads, but Michael (by his own admission) didn't have the work ethic he needed to have in order to maximize his talent.
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"Deep Ball" Dave Meyer, Vick's backup. Legend has it he could throw the ball 80 yards from his knees, but had no idea where it would go. NFL Combine would have loved that dude.
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I was a freshman the year Vick redshirted. To this day I have not lived down my end of the heated arguments over who would replace Al Clark. My roommate was like "we got some guy named...Nick, Wick, Vick? Something. S'posed to be good." Me: "NO WAY. DEEP BALL DAVE MEYER GONNA RUN THIS SHOW." I remain, as you can tell, an idiot.
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All I remember about Meyer is him coming into a game briefly when Vick was knocked out for a few plays (Miami, I think?) and Meyer had a solid thousand-yard stare going.
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I'm not sure why Brewer was included in that trio. I would put LT, Glennon, Meyer and probably TT and Evans ahead of Brewer in arm strength. Motley had a stronger arm than Brewer.
Brewer threw a pretty ball and was moderately accurate, but he was 5'10" 185 LBs sopping wet. He put all he had into it.
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Nah, that's a misremember. He had comparable arm strength to his NFL QB brother. Here, check the 14:35 mark for a handful of really strong armed throws from Glennon.
It seems Glennon isnt remembered accurately. He had tools. He threw 66 tds at Westfield's. But compared to BR, MV2 and TT, his immobility was something we (and the coaches) weren't well equipped to handle. His flaw was paper thin confidence, crumbling under pressure and really poor pocket presence. But he could zing it.
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Pretty sure all 66 of those were to Eddie Royal as well.
I would watch the old high school show on Sundays on Fox5. The highlights were unreal. And they had Evan Royster in the backfield. I still remember watching one game where Royal had multiple TDs on 60 yd bombs off play action.
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Glennon was here at a time when we needed someon3 that could escape the situations a pourous offensive line puts you in. When he played and the line protected, he looked great. Most of the time, you needed Tyrod's elusiveness which he didn't have. Arm strength was not an issue.
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Unfortunately he arrived at Tech when we had one of our worst O-Lines in the last 20 years, and a fan base that wanted a scrambling running QB and not a pocket passer.
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I saw MV play in the Virginia state high school all star game in 98 in the Virginia Beach area. He and Curry were the Qb's for the east squad (buddy of mine played for the west which is why I was there) Curry was talented and returned punts a couple of times, but MV's talent jumped off the field. To this day he threw the best incompletion I have ever seen at any level. Nobody could catch he or Curry as so many of the plays were 1 of them running around on broken plays waving people open.
On one play Michael scrambled towards the sideline around mid-field running to his left and threw a rifle shot on a line into the end zone and the WR dropped it as it hit him in the chest pad right before he stepped out of bounds on the sideline. I remember my buddy and I looked at each other and just said - WOW he just threw a 55 yard incompletion on the run like it was a 15 yard out. I remember telling my Dad we found ourselves a QB to which he said I was exaggerating etc. We still tell the story to this day.
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Curry sort of gets forgotten since he didnt have the pro success Vick had. But he was an all time athlete, won the McDonald's all american game dunk contest if memory serves. Raiders drafted him straight up off his high school film. The guy was insane.
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Curry was the only guy to have been the national player of the year in both football and basketball. I saw this a while ago and it made me remember how good he was at everything in high school.
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I saw them both torch my high school. Vick had more talent. Curry was amazing but also had more talent around him- those Hampton teams were always either winning state titles or in the playoffs. Curry would have been better off at a school other than UNC if he were interested in football. IIRC the plan was to redshirt him and the starter blew out his knee so they rushed him.
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There is one play from the 2000 season where Vick scrambles at the 30 yard line then heaves it to Andre Davis down field and the ball goes out the back of the endzone, Vick was 70 yards from that endzone, not 30. I have never seen a play like it. He didnt even look like he tried to throw the ball deep.
Spring of 2001 I show up in McComas to play basketball, I walk in the door and some guy asks if I want to run so I say yes and then look over and see Vick is playing (Whitaker too). I laughed and said I am not guarding him. He was so smooth and nonchalant with the ball i had never seen anything like it. He mainly just sat back and nailed 3s but when he went to the rim he would take a step and some how be 2 steps ahead of the defender. It was like watching Derrick Rose in college, but I didnt know who Rose was at the time. He was just amazing. A lot gets lost on the football field since lots of people are fast, Mike still ran away from them, but seeing it 5 feet away from you I have never seen any one like him.
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He was a crazy athlete, but wildly overrated as a basketball player. Hampton played a run and gun style that worked for them, but Curry wasn't a good overall b-ball player. However, if he had gone somewhere with a pure focus on being a qb in college (ala when he committed originally to UVA to be the heir apparent to Aaron Brooks) he could have been way better as a qb. In today's offenses he would be amazing.
However, my main point is this proves the brilliance of evaluating players for your system and that dynamic still exists today which gives me hope for VT finding players that work for them to outfox programs with more money. Vick was not nearly as highly sought after as Curry, but Vt played that one perfectly compared to many many other programs. Let's hope they do this today with positions/players that fit The Hokies.
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The biggest thing that helps is lots of high school coaches have no clue how to use someone like Vick, The NFL failed and Vick sometimes put VT on his shoulders and called his own play.
But for everyone that trumpets Dax and Tre for being 4 star recruits (and I'm a huge fan of both), they didnt start until injuries happened, Rivers got GT'd and Hazelton, Kumah, and Grimsley missed the UVA game.
Meanwhile Darrisaw as a true frosh started 11 games at LT. Coming out of high school he was our worst rated recruit (2017). After a year at Fork Union he was out 19th highest rated recruit.(0.04 boost on 247 between years). I would say finding a player that can step in and play LT as a true frosh is a diamond in the rough.
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Kumah also played. I think 4 star true freshman not playing early in the season is just as attributable to strategy and those players not being ready to play a majority of the snaps (not knowing the playbook/defense and thus limiting the coaches overall strategy when those players are in the game).
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People tend to forget that Curry blew his achilles his Freshman year at Carolina. IMO, he was never the same after that. PS on the basketball thing, he was much better player his JR year than his SR. Most blamed this on his added bulk he put on for football. To me he seemed to lose some ball handling skills. Not a great thing for a PG. He did, however, start at Carolina his SR year at the point. They usually don't just give that job to the undeserving.
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Ok. So something I'm curious about. IF Curry had opted to go to LOLUVA as QB & hoops, would they have beaten us in '99 & '00 (it's scary to change consider)??
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I agree. I think Vt still wins big because top to bottom Vt still had far more talent, but I think it would have had a chance to change the trajectory of their program.
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Don't know if it's true or not, but I remember my Dad always telling me that Druck could bench press just as much, if not more, than his O-Line. No data to back that up, but if so, that's impressive.
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They show it in a graphic later in the game French linked! I forgot what they listed his bench was but the announcers actually talked about how he could hang and clean 405 which was higher than his Oline average. It came up later in the second half of that video if I remember right.
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This is a solid thread. You missed one though: Greg Boone. Boone could toss it a mile when he first arrived on campus. I watched him before the spring game routinely throw 80 yards on the sidelines (he was a guest for the game.....still in HS)
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And he made it look so effortless.
I loved watching that offense. I know it's old and out dated, but it looked so methodical.
Big same. It was as fun to watch as any offense you'll see nowadays, because the defense would know what was coming but by the 4th quarter they would be too gassed to stop it. This LOLUVA game is a perfect example of it--on our final TD drive, damn near every run was downhill.
I love that nasty, punch you in the mouth football.
Except when it's run by GT every single year, of course.
he said punch you in the mouth, not the knee
"Not enough bubble screens to be effective."- Brad Cornelsen
Perfect execution of the simplest plays will lead to success. I really don't consider I-Formation outdated except in appealing to recruits.
A LOT of runningbacks hate running out of shotgun. You have no head start, the play is delayed, and no fullback. Just look at Jalen Hurd's temper tantrum at Tennessee
Have to find fullbacks willing to be wrecking ball. With all the knowledge about head injuries that is a difficult sell.
Do you need a FB or could an H-back or having a pulling lineman on every play satisfy the lead block requirement. I know it wouldn't be a true I-formation, but the principles of downhill, power running would still exist
I'm fairly sure the Redskins under Joe Gibbs did exactly that will the H-Back.
Was the Starter brand horribly mismanaged or what?
Didn't really modernize. Kind of like Russell
Which is why Russell was perfect for Georgia Tech
Man, Mr. French, you give me the nostalgias with this pull.
I met Druck 2 years later at TOTS...nice guy.
Those teams gave me some of the best VT memories that I have.
We didn't always win, but the Hokies were ALWAYS more physical....
I've talked to a guy on those VT teams. His quote about Druck: "he liked football, but man he loved women and nose candy".
I had a buddy that tutored him and said that he was extremely nice and fun to party with but that he made a box of rocks look intelligent
Can concur.
Yup. Druck was a fun guy, but I think the playbook was about all of his required reading at Tech. And it was a picture book.
By then he may have been humbled by his time in San Fran. While in school, Druck could be a bit of a headache. It made it hard to root for him some times.
Druck story for you. It was spring of 1995. My birthday night. went to a bar downtown where my favorite band at the time was playing. Of course, since it was my birthday, I got a shoutout from the band. Druck was there, beer in each hand and very happy to be there. When he heard the shoutout, he came over put his arm around me and we sang the next song together, very loudly. Good times...
Meh, '95-'97(Jan) were the best years Tech had as a program (until '99). So while they didn't win EVERY game, I would classify as they MOSTLY to ALMOST ALWAYS won.
You got that right. Druck and Vick could both flick the wrist and throw it 40+ yards on a rope.
the vick flick was truly unbelievable. guy threw 50 yarders with his wrist alone. i know he's not exactly celebrated around here (or anywhere) but marcus had the same thing. genetic fucking beasts.
I don't think I've seen anyone knock Marcus's football abilities, there were absolutely top notch.
Having witnessed both, I always thought Truck had the strongest arm I ever saw. Until I saw Vick. Fans had heard about his speed, but I remember his first game against JMU, I saw him roll left and throw an absolute doen field. That is when I knew how special he was.
Honorable mention to LT3. He threw some missles too.
LT3 had a cannon but you didn't always know where it was going. Vick had a cannon with pinpoint accuracy.
It really does boggle the mind that Atlanta tried to make him a runner who could throw. He was awesome here because he was a great thrower who could kill you when you didn't respect his ability to run. Outside of his legal issues, there is no reason he shouldn't have been a legitimate game changing player in the NFL but he was shoehorned into a role that didn't suit his skills.
I think MV7 was forced into action way too prematurely in Atlanta because of the hype around him, and Atlanta took advantage of the excitement factor with his legs, leading him to never fully develop in the passing game. He did have a cannon and good accuracy coming out of VT, but outside of bombs to Andre Davis, we didn't run a very complex passing attack. I don't think he had the time or maturity at that age when he got to Atlanta to learn the NFL passing game, and he ultimately relied on his athleticism.
I think we honestly saw how great he could truly be when he became a student of the game under Reid in Philly. Had he devoted himself fully and stayed out of trouble, it's hard to tell how ridiculously good he could have been in ATL.
First QB to win a road playoff game at Lambeau and I believe he was 23. Amazing talent, but Atlanta confirmed to his limitations not vice versa. By his own admission, Mike didn't get into the playbook and film like he should have.
Yeah Mike admits he didn't study as much as he should, then in philly when he did he had his best year. To think what he could have been starting earlier and not doing dumb things.
It's because he was nowhere near ready to make reads against NFL defenses. Jim Mora has basically said as much.
Not ready initially and not spending the next 4-5 years in getting up to speed is different. Mora isn't going to punish his work ethic as he still has a relationship with MV. He had the opportunity to let his athletic ability buy time to learn the passing tree(s) and pre/post snaps reads, but Michael (by his own admission) didn't have the work ethic he needed to have in order to maximize his talent.
Druck had 1st Round arm strength
Did you see what he was lifting in the weight room? Arm was not the only strong part.
Death, taxes, and TV showing a Druck power clean during the 95-96 window.
Druck sits back. Launches it. Still runs under it. Guaranteed goodness every time.
Love those uniforms too.
via GIPHY
Great clip. And that Jennings guy he throws it too ended my high school football days
I know the story. It is pretty gruesome. Hope you guys are doing ok in this storm Wiley!
So out of Druck, Brewer & Willis, which one has the strongest arm (& in what order)?
"Deep Ball" Dave Meyer, Vick's backup. Legend has it he could throw the ball 80 yards from his knees, but had no idea where it would go. NFL Combine would have loved that dude.
I was a freshman the year Vick redshirted. To this day I have not lived down my end of the heated arguments over who would replace Al Clark. My roommate was like "we got some guy named...Nick, Wick, Vick? Something. S'posed to be good." Me: "NO WAY. DEEP BALL DAVE MEYER GONNA RUN THIS SHOW." I remain, as you can tell, an idiot.
All I remember about Meyer is him coming into a game briefly when Vick was knocked out for a few plays (Miami, I think?) and Meyer had a solid thousand-yard stare going.
Pitt. He won the game.
He played in the Miami game too, I was there, great stupid road trip😁
Seen Greg Boone do that as well in pre-game warm ups one time.
I miss this....good call. See post below
By NFL combine you mean Al Davis?
Knowing essentially nothing about Druck I still feel very confident the answer is Druck, Willis, Brewer.
I would classify Brewer as having a fairly weak arm.
1) Druck
Lots of gap
2) Willis
3) Brewer
Brewer would probably be the guy Inwould want in the fox hole though.
I'm not sure why Brewer was included in that trio. I would put LT, Glennon, Meyer and probably TT and Evans ahead of Brewer in arm strength. Motley had a stronger arm than Brewer.
Brewer threw a pretty ball and was moderately accurate, but he was 5'10" 185 LBs sopping wet. He put all he had into it.
Glennon!?!? You can't be serious! Arm strength was another one of the complaints against him.
Nah, that's a misremember. He had comparable arm strength to his NFL QB brother. Here, check the 14:35 mark for a handful of really strong armed throws from Glennon.
It seems Glennon isnt remembered accurately. He had tools. He threw 66 tds at Westfield's. But compared to BR, MV2 and TT, his immobility was something we (and the coaches) weren't well equipped to handle. His flaw was paper thin confidence, crumbling under pressure and really poor pocket presence. But he could zing it.
He had a slow delivery as well which added to the "doesn't have the arm" narrative. Strength Was NFL quality though.
Pocket presence and indecision of a Labradoodle. Didn't help.
When a 1st down would have ended the game and you knew it wouldn't happen, that is Glennon.
Pretty sure all 66 of those were to Eddie Royal as well.
I would watch the old high school show on Sundays on Fox5. The highlights were unreal. And they had Evan Royster in the backfield. I still remember watching one game where Royal had multiple TDs on 60 yd bombs off play action.
Glennon was here at a time when we needed someon3 that could escape the situations a pourous offensive line puts you in. When he played and the line protected, he looked great. Most of the time, you needed Tyrod's elusiveness which he didn't have. Arm strength was not an issue.
I think he was sacked 57 times in 2006.
That's insane.
If he played at Wisconsin, he could have been an elite college quarterback.
Unfortunately he arrived at Tech when we had one of our worst O-Lines in the last 20 years, and a fan base that wanted a scrambling running QB and not a pocket passer.
I'm pretty sure the fan base had little to do with it.
Are you sure it wasn't a completely incompetent offensive coaching staff compromised of Bryan Stinespring, Mike O'Cain and Curt Newsome?
Oh man, those graphics and the music bringing back memories
I like the graphic towards the end of the game on #61 the center. Age: 22 Height: 6'3". Weight: 198
Yet he's the biggest guy on the field
Contay's legs were huge.
I saw MV play in the Virginia state high school all star game in 98 in the Virginia Beach area. He and Curry were the Qb's for the east squad (buddy of mine played for the west which is why I was there) Curry was talented and returned punts a couple of times, but MV's talent jumped off the field. To this day he threw the best incompletion I have ever seen at any level. Nobody could catch he or Curry as so many of the plays were 1 of them running around on broken plays waving people open.
On one play Michael scrambled towards the sideline around mid-field running to his left and threw a rifle shot on a line into the end zone and the WR dropped it as it hit him in the chest pad right before he stepped out of bounds on the sideline. I remember my buddy and I looked at each other and just said - WOW he just threw a 55 yard incompletion on the run like it was a 15 yard out. I remember telling my Dad we found ourselves a QB to which he said I was exaggerating etc. We still tell the story to this day.
Curry sort of gets forgotten since he didnt have the pro success Vick had. But he was an all time athlete, won the McDonald's all american game dunk contest if memory serves. Raiders drafted him straight up off his high school film. The guy was insane.
Curry was the only guy to have been the national player of the year in both football and basketball. I saw this a while ago and it made me remember how good he was at everything in high school.
I saw them both torch my high school. Vick had more talent. Curry was amazing but also had more talent around him- those Hampton teams were always either winning state titles or in the playoffs. Curry would have been better off at a school other than UNC if he were interested in football. IIRC the plan was to redshirt him and the starter blew out his knee so they rushed him.
There is one play from the 2000 season where Vick scrambles at the 30 yard line then heaves it to Andre Davis down field and the ball goes out the back of the endzone, Vick was 70 yards from that endzone, not 30. I have never seen a play like it. He didnt even look like he tried to throw the ball deep.
Spring of 2001 I show up in McComas to play basketball, I walk in the door and some guy asks if I want to run so I say yes and then look over and see Vick is playing (Whitaker too). I laughed and said I am not guarding him. He was so smooth and nonchalant with the ball i had never seen anything like it. He mainly just sat back and nailed 3s but when he went to the rim he would take a step and some how be 2 steps ahead of the defender. It was like watching Derrick Rose in college, but I didnt know who Rose was at the time. He was just amazing. A lot gets lost on the football field since lots of people are fast, Mike still ran away from them, but seeing it 5 feet away from you I have never seen any one like him.
He was a crazy athlete, but wildly overrated as a basketball player. Hampton played a run and gun style that worked for them, but Curry wasn't a good overall b-ball player. However, if he had gone somewhere with a pure focus on being a qb in college (ala when he committed originally to UVA to be the heir apparent to Aaron Brooks) he could have been way better as a qb. In today's offenses he would be amazing.
However, my main point is this proves the brilliance of evaluating players for your system and that dynamic still exists today which gives me hope for VT finding players that work for them to outfox programs with more money. Vick was not nearly as highly sought after as Curry, but Vt played that one perfectly compared to many many other programs. Let's hope they do this today with positions/players that fit The Hokies.
The biggest thing that helps is lots of high school coaches have no clue how to use someone like Vick, The NFL failed and Vick sometimes put VT on his shoulders and called his own play.
But for everyone that trumpets Dax and Tre for being 4 star recruits (and I'm a huge fan of both), they didnt start until injuries happened, Rivers got GT'd and Hazelton, Kumah, and
Grimsleymissed the UVA game.Meanwhile Darrisaw as a true frosh started 11 games at LT. Coming out of high school he was our worst rated recruit (2017). After a year at Fork Union he was out 19th highest rated recruit.(0.04 boost on 247 between years). I would say finding a player that can step in and play LT as a true frosh is a diamond in the rough.
If Grimsley didn't play vs UVA then who recovered People's fumble for a TD? 🤔
His twin Grimesley.
Kumah also played. I think 4 star true freshman not playing early in the season is just as attributable to strategy and those players not being ready to play a majority of the snaps (not knowing the playbook/defense and thus limiting the coaches overall strategy when those players are in the game).
my bad
People tend to forget that Curry blew his achilles his Freshman year at Carolina. IMO, he was never the same after that. PS on the basketball thing, he was much better player his JR year than his SR. Most blamed this on his added bulk he put on for football. To me he seemed to lose some ball handling skills. Not a great thing for a PG. He did, however, start at Carolina his SR year at the point. They usually don't just give that job to the undeserving.
Ok. So something I'm curious about. IF Curry had opted to go to LOLUVA as QB & hoops, would they have beaten us in '99 & '00 (it's scary to change consider)??
We won those games 31-7 and 42-21...
So, no I don't think it would have mattered
I agree. I think Vt still wins big because top to bottom Vt still had far more talent, but I think it would have had a chance to change the trajectory of their program.
Don't know if it's true or not, but I remember my Dad always telling me that Druck could bench press just as much, if not more, than his O-Line. No data to back that up, but if so, that's impressive.
I don't know if was the bench press but at least one of the weight room metrics he was tops on the team at.
I was waiting for someone to go there. Take your leg.
Me too. After his trial in the 'Burg, there were rumors and references to donkeys.
When did this turn into an Oxendine thread?
He was the first QB to win the team-wide "Ironman" competition.
They show it in a graphic later in the game French linked! I forgot what they listed his bench was but the announcers actually talked about how he could hang and clean 405 which was higher than his Oline average. It came up later in the second half of that video if I remember right.
This is a solid thread. You missed one though: Greg Boone. Boone could toss it a mile when he first arrived on campus. I watched him before the spring game routinely throw 80 yards on the sidelines (he was a guest for the game.....still in HS)