Counterpoint: I hope he learned his lesson from his failures at tech and runs his ass off and helps UCF to a third undefeated season without seeing the CFP (kidding, they lose their bowl game this year)
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That's fair. I still don't see the dropoff being that huge, since the backup played significantly better against Memphis than when he came off the bench against USF.
But yeah, the Milton injury is what makes it a game, otherwise I feel like UCF would run away with it.
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I'm pretty sure it's about enrollment not playing. There was a kid that enrolled early at an OSU for basketball, but legit went there to play school and was doing summer school. Come fall semester he transferred to NC State I believe, and NCAA initially denied him immediate eligibility because he was taking classes.
tl:;dr NCAA sucks and doesn't give a shit about student athletes
Best of luck to Cam, unless he plays us.
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Thank you I couldn't remember the name. Perfect example of how fucked up the NCAA is. Kid wants to transfer. Both schools support it, he cares about his education and enrolled for that main reason.
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To me, the 2018 attrition basically falls into two categories. There's the "welp, nothing you can do about that" category that includes the Edmundi leaving to be first round picks and Jeremy Webb tearing his achilles.
And then there's the "what's going on with this program in 2018?" category that to me includes the Mook and Adonis situations, and Tim Settle leaving to be a fifth rounder. I put the Goode thing squarely in that second category.
Even if the story is as simple as he showed up fat and didn't want to run, then: 1) The coaching staff needs to have the problem-solving people skills to get the kid in shape without him leaving the first freaking day of practice, and 2) They gave him a scholarship offer, so that's some seriously poor evaluation that went on, and that's 100% on the staff.
Sorry if that seemed ranty, just my opinion.
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Settle leaving to be a fifth rounder is in the first category for me. If a player has played his way into being draft-eligible and actually gets drafted, I think the decision is more easily justified regardless of it was a first or fifth round or seventh round pick used to take him. You don't leave "to be a fifth rounder", you leave "to play in the NFL" and Settle is doing that.
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Everyone you listed in your second category, other than possibly Goode, belongs in the first category.
Mook was charged with a felony. Unless you want to change athletic department policy, being charged with a felony leads to an indefinite suspension, at the very least.
Adonis lost his academic eligibility. He would not have been allowed to play by NCAA policy. From everything we've heard, unless you think we should have had someone doing his schoolwork for him (hello, UNC!) we did everything we could.
Tim Settle left because he had little left to prove, and getting paid is a whole lot better than not getting paid. We live in a day and age where players are likely to leave if they're told it's almost certain they'll be drafted. Full stop.
Cam Goode left because the conditioning staff told him to run "like a receiver", whatever that means, and he protested. Maybe he should have been told more of what to expect up front, when he was being recruited. Maybe he was actually running more than other D-linemen, due to either disciplinary reasons or maybe the coaching staff felt he needed the extra conditioning. In any case, I personally find it hard to believe that the coaches would essentially blackball such a supposedly talented player, especially one at a position where we were already extremely thin, if there wasn't a very good reason for it. However, his situation is different than most of the others in that it may have been preventable.
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My #sauces say that Cam not being able to finish his workouts actually made for more runs for the rest of the DL. It got to the point where his inability/unwillingness to make the grade was causing strife within the unit and the coaches didn't see a path forward with him in the picture.
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Adonis lost his academic eligibility. He would not have been allowed to play by NCAA policy. From everything we've heard, unless you think we should have had someone doing his schoolwork for him (hello, UNC!) we did everything we could.
My problem with the Adonis situation is why wasn't it handled early on? Why let it even get close to that point before pulling him from the field? It's been reported that it was an ongoing issue, so why not nip it in the bud when he was a sophomore versus letting him limp along until he was a rising senior?
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I'm sure there were previous attempts, but they stopped short of pulling him from the field to gain his full attention. At least, I don't recall him being pulled.
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Because he was (presumably barely) still making good enough grades to play. I guess eventually he had a worse semester and nothing could be done to fix it.
Besides, there were a couple instances of disciplinary action in the last few years. There are different ways of "handling" a situation like that, and it sounds like Fuente and the staff tried their best.
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Yeah I don't get what people are even questioning. Adonis himself has said several times that the blame falls on him because everyone did everything they could to help him out. It's really simple and straight forward.
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from what I picked up, he had a terrible semester and then pulled in decent grades. VT has a sliding GPA scale to stay enrolled. If you have a set of bad grades weighing you down, even consistent B's/C's can find you on the wrong side of the GPA requirement later in your career. Theoretically he could have returned after a semester off but there was no reason really when he was going to get drafted and he would've missed FB season anyway.
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I totally get what you are saying about Mook, Adonis and Settle. But we're gonna have to agree to disagree about whether those are preventable (I feel they are), and whether they reflect poorly on the coaching staff/program (I feel they do). Basically, I made my two categories based on asking "if this situation happened a lot, could a coach get fired?"
Mook - I get that players sometimes get busted with weed. If it happens once, it's hard to criticize too much. If it happens 10 times, the coach is probably getting fired. Why? Because it's a reflection on what kind of program they are running.
Adonis - Basically the same thing as Mook. One academic suspension? Okay. 10 of them? That would make people say, "What kind of program are you running?"
Settle - It's not very common for players to leave college early to be drafted in the 5th round or later. Hell, Clemson convinced 4 potential first rounds on the defensive line alone to come back another year. But we've had a rash of players (Jerod Evans, Bucky Hodges, Isaiah Ford, and Settle) make questionable draft decisions in the last two years alone. That, plus an astonishing amount of players transferring or just plain quitting during the season (Travon McMillian, Goode, CJ Carroll, Sean Savoy, I'm sure I'm missing a few more) has absolutely decimated this team.
Every situation with each player is unique, I'm sure. But when you can't keep your guys on the field, ultimately that's on the guy making $3 million a year.
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That, plus an astonishing amount of players transferring or just plain quitting during the season (Travon McMillian, Goode, CJ Carroll, Sean Savoy, I'm sure I'm missing a few more) has absolutely decimated this team.
Not a single one of the players you list had or would have had a significant effect on this team.
It's not very common for players to leave college early to be drafted in the 5th round or later
I still don't understand what you're saying here. Mook and Adonis were kicked off the team because of reasons outside of Fuente's control. Mook was charged with a felony, and VT policy for many years has meant an automatic indefinite suspension or dismissal. In any case, he wouldn't have played this year, since the trial isn't until January. Adonis' grades dropped to the point where he wasn't allowed to play by NCAA policy, and had a history of off-the-field issues and was given multiple chances to stay with the team. Literally neither of those situations involved any decisions by the coaching staff, and are therefore uncontrollable.
As for Settle, I guess we can agree to disagree. Yes, there are a few examples of players coming back despite high draft grades, but those are the exceptions to the rule. And no, it isn't uncommon to see players leave early for a 5th round pick. Hell, the committee that handles the official draft grades recently changed their system to try to stem the flow of early departures for the draft, by changing from a round-by-round grade that was proving to be highly inaccurate to a system with 2 options: "Likely first or second round", and "Other". No amount of cherry-picking counterexamples will change the fact that most 20-year-olds like to get paid for their work and will jump at the first opportunity to do so.
Really, other than Goode, the only good example of the point you're trying to make is McMillian. He is obviously a talented runner, but he was chased out of Blacksburg due to a lack of playing time. There has been a ton of discussion about why it happened, and he and Goode are the only two departures where it may be fair to place a decent portion of blame on Fuente and his staff.
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The point is, a contributor left. If we're making a list of contributors or possible contributors who left when there may still have been room for them to contribute and those departures could be blamed on the staff, he would have to be on that list.
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But your blaming the staff for him leaving. What should the staff have done to keep him around? He was getting passed on the depth chart, failed miserably at his chance of a PR job (on a game changing fumble).
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I'm not blaming the staff. I'm saying IF we are making a list of players whose departures could potentially be blamed on the staff, Savoy has to be included.
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Sure, you could potentially blame the staff for Savoy's decision to transfer. You also could have potentially blamed Frank for Marcus Vick being an asshat, or for Darren Evans declaring early for the draft yet ultimately going undrafted.
Sorry, but this is a strange hill to die on.
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A couple other posters showed I was totally wrong about how common it is for players to leave early and be drafted late. I was totally wrong and should have checked before stating that as fact.
I guess my point about Mook and Alexander is that when you are in a position of authority you bear at least some responsibility for the actions of people who you supervise. In a vacuum, none of these situations (dismissals or transfers) are Fuente's "fault." But when you are head coach of a major college football program, your program is a reflection of you. And it hasn't been a good look for VT football in 2018.
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when you are in a position of authority you bear at least some responsibility for the actions of people who you supervise.
I 100% do not agree with this. If an employee that I manage goes out and robs a bank, leading to them landing in prison and me officially terminating their employment, how do I bear ANY responsibility for this. Mook's situation is pending trial, so it's not this severe, but the same none the less. Adonis is that guy who simply didn't sufficiently do some basic function that's required for the job, that is a "must do" (either due to lack of ability or lack of effort). Again, how is that my responsibility?
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I know I'm kind of beating a dead horse here, and it's totally fine that we don't agree. And by the way Happy Friday and Merry Christmas everyone! :)
In your single example, you are absolutely right. But let's say you manage 40 workers. One of them steals a car and is busted, another scream obscenities at your boss, and another just stops coming in to work. All are fired. In addition, 2 others take better jobs, 3 more switch to another department, 2 get hurt on the job and can't work, and 2 more are let go because they just aren't good enough at their jobs. If all this happens in an 8-month stretch, and productivity takes a huge hit, I think it would be fair to question your management of that department.
It's not the individual instances that are red flags to me, it's the cumulative effect that concerns me. But I totally understand if others don't see it that way.
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Not if those same incidence rates are typical for the industry and people who are willing to take the jobs. The construction industry has horrible employee retention rates, high incidence of crime by employees (relative to other industries, like computer programming) and high substance abuse. People who own companies and manage work teams know that this is just par for the course.
In CFB, 5% transfer rate isn't uncommon, nor is ineligibility for a variety of issues (off field behaviors, academics, etc). Heck, we're seeing starters transfer and the number of 4* and 5* players who are transferring is astounding. This attrition is a sign of the times. People criticize the SEC teams for signing more kids than they have open spots. While there are some nefarious cases where the school cut a kid, the vast majority is simply done to account for the attrition that they know is coming.
For the most part, Cardale's quote "We ain't come here to play SCHOOL" perfectly sums up many football player's attitudes. They are at the school to try to make it to the NFL. If they aren't starting and younger guys are passing them up, then they are leaving. They'll do the minimum for academics, which is a huge gamble, because all that it takes is a bad semester to eliminate them from playing. They also get themselves involved in off field stuff that many on this forum wouldn't consider. How is a coach responsible for that? Yeah, you can say "recruit better" but the fact that EVERY program has this going on, means it's not a matter of recruiting, nor is it completely in the coach's control.
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I think the blame the coach for not correcting the situation is a tough sell. The boards play both sides as I have seen posts about why isn't trevon hill on the team like he would be at insert a SEC school name. Every school has student athlete situation and they are all unique to a certain extent.
You can't paint it with a black or white approach as coaches are trying to help kids build a life and for every kid who takes the constructive advice and becomes a success there's another who goes the opposite direction. Mook wasn't ever in serious trouble but was warned about behavior and when he got charged welp not much you can do - would you suggest the coaches kick him off before he did anything wrong? It's easy to blame the coach after the fact - I think our coaches are handling these tough situations better than most.
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I find that the player departures are hard to pin on the coaching staff and this is coming from someone who has been very critical of the staff.
Recruiting misevaluations are where they have the most culpability. Once a player is here, if they are getting the coaching that other players are getting it incumbent on the player to put in the effort to succeed. Does that mean all players will succeed? Absolutely not. Virginia Tech is a P5 schools at that makes success difficult. At this level it's a combination of talent and effort on the players part. Effort isn't isolated to physical effort on the field, it's also a matter of adopting the system and understanding expectations. Like any organization not every person who is a part of it is a good fit.
Here's my take on each of the situations:
Edmundi. These guys were in demand. You take the shot when you have it. You know why? Even after one year in the NFL they can always finish their degree and still be financially ahead if they use their money wisely
Tim Settle. School wasn't his thing. Any shot at the NFL meant he was entering the draft. The coaches responsibilities here are difficult to ascertain. Some may say its their responsibility to advise him. I would caution on too much of that advice. I think it's fair to make him aware of the challenges of going early. I don't think it's advisable to try and influence a player to stay for another season. That player could be one down away from losing their dream. I don't see any fault of the staff in this case. In fact I would say they made a great evaluation and pushed Tim to get in better shape and ultimately succeed.
AA. School isn't for everyone. Let's say that even with tutoring AA was on the cusp of eligibility. This could very easily be a no fault situation. It's not like the tutors or the coaches can take his tests for him. I think the staff did everything they could to help him find a place in the NFL and it worked.
Mook. Policies are policies. They weren't created after Mook signed onto the team. One car argue all you want about the situation with respect to the charges etc. The point is that there is very little the coaches can do when policies are violated.
Cam Goode. The staff may own a little here. I think they saw a Tim Settle situation where they needed to take a big guy and get him in better shape. Tim responded to what was necessary and took the field. It does not look like Cam did. Was it a mis-evaluation? Maybe. The only thing they can do is watch film, watch in person and talk to coaches. A no time in the recruiting process would it become clear that Cam may not have the ability and/or desire to do what it takes to play.
Ultimately the coaching staff is free to develop the culture they wish to engender assuming it is not harmful to the players. It seems one thing that is important to Fuente is uniformity in the adoption of the culture. That is evident in his comments about not forcing him to choose between a player and the team. That is a departure from where Beamer was later in his career. I think talented players were afforded more leeway. Regardless both Coaches were entitled to operate their teams as they see fit and both coaches where and will be judged on the results of how they operated.
Could Trevon Hill have helped us win another game or two? Maybe. Did Fuente have to endure a lot of criticism for the outcome of the games and having that outcome juxtaposed against Hills' dismissal? Absolutely. Was that fair? Yes. That's because Fuente is entitled to run the team the way he see fits and he is also not immune to criticism of the results. That's why he's the "big whistle".
Watching the team the last two games, I am not worried about the locker room. As I have mentioned many times, I think Fuente has the potential to be a great head coach. My only concern is that he may be too loyal to assistants. Is his loyalty to assistants a bad thing? That depends on what Fuente wants out of his career and what VT fans want out of their head coach. I have never questioned Beamer's or Fuente's integrity; and as a fan that feels pretty damn good. Who knows? Maybe Cornelsen comes out next year and validates Fuente's opinion of his abilities. Maybe he doesn't. As long as Fuente is HC he will have the right to run the program as he sees fit. We all retain the right to criticize as we see fit.
At the end of the day I don't see the departures mentioned as being an indictment of the coaching staff.
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Comments
I wonder where he'll go next when the coaches make him run a lot.
Counterpoint: I hope he learned his lesson from his failures at tech and runs his ass off and helps UCF to a third undefeated season without seeing the CFP (kidding, they lose their bowl game this year)
What, lose to LSU? Nah.
#Back2BackNationalChamps
If they hadn't lost their starting QB, I'd have taken UCF in a heartbeat.
That's fair. I still don't see the dropoff being that huge, since the backup played significantly better against Memphis than when he came off the bench against USF.
But yeah, the Milton injury is what makes it a game, otherwise I feel like UCF would run away with it.
So Maryland didn't close the deal.
Is he eligible to play immediately?
Doubtful. He enrolled here.
but he also didn't play this year?
I'm pretty sure it's about enrollment not playing. There was a kid that enrolled early at an OSU for basketball, but legit went there to play school and was doing summer school. Come fall semester he transferred to NC State I believe, and NCAA initially denied him immediate eligibility because he was taking classes.
tl:;dr NCAA sucks and doesn't give a shit about student athletes
Best of luck to Cam, unless he plays us.
I guess the argument is that you have to sit out a year after transferring, not just "before you can play"
That would be Braxton Beverly
Thank you I couldn't remember the name. Perfect example of how fucked up the NCAA is. Kid wants to transfer. Both schools support it, he cares about his education and enrolled for that main reason.
They don't want people transferring at the drop of a
hatbag.I actually don't mind if there is some penalty for it, as otherwise there might be chaos.
Good luck to him, hope it works out. Once anybody transfers out I hope they land on their feet.
no hard feelings here. Goode for them, hope it works out.
To me, the 2018 attrition basically falls into two categories. There's the "welp, nothing you can do about that" category that includes the Edmundi leaving to be first round picks and Jeremy Webb tearing his achilles.
And then there's the "what's going on with this program in 2018?" category that to me includes the Mook and Adonis situations, and Tim Settle leaving to be a fifth rounder. I put the Goode thing squarely in that second category.
Even if the story is as simple as he showed up fat and didn't want to run, then: 1) The coaching staff needs to have the problem-solving people skills to get the kid in shape without him leaving the first freaking day of practice, and 2) They gave him a scholarship offer, so that's some seriously poor evaluation that went on, and that's 100% on the staff.
Sorry if that seemed ranty, just my opinion.
Settle leaving to be a fifth rounder is in the first category for me. If a player has played his way into being draft-eligible and actually gets drafted, I think the decision is more easily justified regardless of it was a first or fifth round or seventh round pick used to take him. You don't leave "to be a fifth rounder", you leave "to play in the NFL" and Settle is doing that.
Everyone you listed in your second category, other than possibly Goode, belongs in the first category.
Mook was charged with a felony. Unless you want to change athletic department policy, being charged with a felony leads to an indefinite suspension, at the very least.
Adonis lost his academic eligibility. He would not have been allowed to play by NCAA policy. From everything we've heard, unless you think we should have had someone doing his schoolwork for him (hello, UNC!) we did everything we could.
Tim Settle left because he had little left to prove, and getting paid is a whole lot better than not getting paid. We live in a day and age where players are likely to leave if they're told it's almost certain they'll be drafted. Full stop.
Cam Goode left because the conditioning staff told him to run "like a receiver", whatever that means, and he protested. Maybe he should have been told more of what to expect up front, when he was being recruited. Maybe he was actually running more than other D-linemen, due to either disciplinary reasons or maybe the coaching staff felt he needed the extra conditioning. In any case, I personally find it hard to believe that the coaches would essentially blackball such a supposedly talented player, especially one at a position where we were already extremely thin, if there wasn't a very good reason for it. However, his situation is different than most of the others in that it may have been preventable.
My #sauces say that Cam not being able to finish his workouts actually made for more runs for the rest of the DL. It got to the point where his inability/unwillingness to make the grade was causing strife within the unit and the coaches didn't see a path forward with him in the picture.
My problem with the Adonis situation is why wasn't it handled early on? Why let it even get close to that point before pulling him from the field? It's been reported that it was an ongoing issue, so why not nip it in the bud when he was a sophomore versus letting him limp along until he was a rising senior?
You don't think there was an attempt to do so?
I'm sure there were previous attempts, but they stopped short of pulling him from the field to gain his full attention. At least, I don't recall him being pulled.
He was suspended more than once
Because he was (presumably barely) still making good enough grades to play. I guess eventually he had a worse semester and nothing could be done to fix it.
Besides, there were a couple instances of disciplinary action in the last few years. There are different ways of "handling" a situation like that, and it sounds like Fuente and the staff tried their best.
AA said Fuente, the staff, the tutors and VT the school did EVERYTHING it could to help him. He just refused to help himself.
Yeah I don't get what people are even questioning. Adonis himself has said several times that the blame falls on him because everyone did everything they could to help him out. It's really simple and straight forward.
from what I picked up, he had a terrible semester and then pulled in decent grades. VT has a sliding GPA scale to stay enrolled. If you have a set of bad grades weighing you down, even consistent B's/C's can find you on the wrong side of the GPA requirement later in your career. Theoretically he could have returned after a semester off but there was no reason really when he was going to get drafted and he would've missed FB season anyway.
I totally get what you are saying about Mook, Adonis and Settle. But we're gonna have to agree to disagree about whether those are preventable (I feel they are), and whether they reflect poorly on the coaching staff/program (I feel they do). Basically, I made my two categories based on asking "if this situation happened a lot, could a coach get fired?"
Mook - I get that players sometimes get busted with weed. If it happens once, it's hard to criticize too much. If it happens 10 times, the coach is probably getting fired. Why? Because it's a reflection on what kind of program they are running.
Adonis - Basically the same thing as Mook. One academic suspension? Okay. 10 of them? That would make people say, "What kind of program are you running?"
Settle - It's not very common for players to leave college early to be drafted in the 5th round or later. Hell, Clemson convinced 4 potential first rounds on the defensive line alone to come back another year. But we've had a rash of players (Jerod Evans, Bucky Hodges, Isaiah Ford, and Settle) make questionable draft decisions in the last two years alone. That, plus an astonishing amount of players transferring or just plain quitting during the season (Travon McMillian, Goode, CJ Carroll, Sean Savoy, I'm sure I'm missing a few more) has absolutely decimated this team.
Every situation with each player is unique, I'm sure. But when you can't keep your guys on the field, ultimately that's on the guy making $3 million a year.
Except Settle was never here to play school, he loved VT, but wasn't interested in continuing in the classroom.
Not a single one of the players you list had or would have had a significant effect on this team.
Are you sure about that?
Clemson DL is chasing a national championship. Tim Settle would not have been.
CJ Carroll had to retire due to injury. He didn't "quit".
Last year there were 106 early entrants into the NFL draft, 54 of them were drafted in the 5th round or later (or undrafted).
Source
I stand 100% corrected, and apologize for my incorrect statement.
I still don't understand what you're saying here. Mook and Adonis were kicked off the team because of reasons outside of Fuente's control. Mook was charged with a felony, and VT policy for many years has meant an automatic indefinite suspension or dismissal. In any case, he wouldn't have played this year, since the trial isn't until January. Adonis' grades dropped to the point where he wasn't allowed to play by NCAA policy, and had a history of off-the-field issues and was given multiple chances to stay with the team. Literally neither of those situations involved any decisions by the coaching staff, and are therefore uncontrollable.
As for Settle, I guess we can agree to disagree. Yes, there are a few examples of players coming back despite high draft grades, but those are the exceptions to the rule. And no, it isn't uncommon to see players leave early for a 5th round pick. Hell, the committee that handles the official draft grades recently changed their system to try to stem the flow of early departures for the draft, by changing from a round-by-round grade that was proving to be highly inaccurate to a system with 2 options: "Likely first or second round", and "Other". No amount of cherry-picking counterexamples will change the fact that most 20-year-olds like to get paid for their work and will jump at the first opportunity to do so.
Really, other than Goode, the only good example of the point you're trying to make is McMillian. He is obviously a talented runner, but he was chased out of Blacksburg due to a lack of playing time. There has been a ton of discussion about why it happened, and he and Goode are the only two departures where it may be fair to place a decent portion of blame on Fuente and his staff.
I would add Savoy to the departures that could potentially be blamed on the staff
By playing him over more talented WR's?
The point is, a contributor left. If we're making a list of contributors or possible contributors who left when there may still have been room for them to contribute and those departures could be blamed on the staff, he would have to be on that list.
But your blaming the staff for him leaving. What should the staff have done to keep him around? He was getting passed on the depth chart, failed miserably at his chance of a PR job (on a game changing fumble).
I'm not blaming the staff. I'm saying IF we are making a list of players whose departures could potentially be blamed on the staff, Savoy has to be included.
Sure, you could potentially blame the staff for Savoy's decision to transfer. You also could have potentially blamed Frank for Marcus Vick being an asshat, or for Darren Evans declaring early for the draft yet ultimately going undrafted.
Sorry, but this is a strange hill to die on.
A couple other posters showed I was totally wrong about how common it is for players to leave early and be drafted late. I was totally wrong and should have checked before stating that as fact.
I guess my point about Mook and Alexander is that when you are in a position of authority you bear at least some responsibility for the actions of people who you supervise. In a vacuum, none of these situations (dismissals or transfers) are Fuente's "fault." But when you are head coach of a major college football program, your program is a reflection of you. And it hasn't been a good look for VT football in 2018.
I 100% do not agree with this. If an employee that I manage goes out and robs a bank, leading to them landing in prison and me officially terminating their employment, how do I bear ANY responsibility for this. Mook's situation is pending trial, so it's not this severe, but the same none the less. Adonis is that guy who simply didn't sufficiently do some basic function that's required for the job, that is a "must do" (either due to lack of ability or lack of effort). Again, how is that my responsibility?
I know I'm kind of beating a dead horse here, and it's totally fine that we don't agree. And by the way Happy Friday and Merry Christmas everyone! :)
In your single example, you are absolutely right. But let's say you manage 40 workers. One of them steals a car and is busted, another scream obscenities at your boss, and another just stops coming in to work. All are fired. In addition, 2 others take better jobs, 3 more switch to another department, 2 get hurt on the job and can't work, and 2 more are let go because they just aren't good enough at their jobs. If all this happens in an 8-month stretch, and productivity takes a huge hit, I think it would be fair to question your management of that department.
It's not the individual instances that are red flags to me, it's the cumulative effect that concerns me. But I totally understand if others don't see it that way.
Unfortunately, if those workers are college football players, I'd say it's par for the course.
Not if those same incidence rates are typical for the industry and people who are willing to take the jobs. The construction industry has horrible employee retention rates, high incidence of crime by employees (relative to other industries, like computer programming) and high substance abuse. People who own companies and manage work teams know that this is just par for the course.
In CFB, 5% transfer rate isn't uncommon, nor is ineligibility for a variety of issues (off field behaviors, academics, etc). Heck, we're seeing starters transfer and the number of 4* and 5* players who are transferring is astounding. This attrition is a sign of the times. People criticize the SEC teams for signing more kids than they have open spots. While there are some nefarious cases where the school cut a kid, the vast majority is simply done to account for the attrition that they know is coming.
For the most part, Cardale's quote "We ain't come here to play SCHOOL" perfectly sums up many football player's attitudes. They are at the school to try to make it to the NFL. If they aren't starting and younger guys are passing them up, then they are leaving. They'll do the minimum for academics, which is a huge gamble, because all that it takes is a bad semester to eliminate them from playing. They also get themselves involved in off field stuff that many on this forum wouldn't consider. How is a coach responsible for that? Yeah, you can say "recruit better" but the fact that EVERY program has this going on, means it's not a matter of recruiting, nor is it completely in the coach's control.
legs to you for owning it
I think the blame the coach for not correcting the situation is a tough sell. The boards play both sides as I have seen posts about why isn't trevon hill on the team like he would be at insert a SEC school name. Every school has student athlete situation and they are all unique to a certain extent.
You can't paint it with a black or white approach as coaches are trying to help kids build a life and for every kid who takes the constructive advice and becomes a success there's another who goes the opposite direction. Mook wasn't ever in serious trouble but was warned about behavior and when he got charged welp not much you can do - would you suggest the coaches kick him off before he did anything wrong? It's easy to blame the coach after the fact - I think our coaches are handling these tough situations better than most.
I find that the player departures are hard to pin on the coaching staff and this is coming from someone who has been very critical of the staff.
Recruiting misevaluations are where they have the most culpability. Once a player is here, if they are getting the coaching that other players are getting it incumbent on the player to put in the effort to succeed. Does that mean all players will succeed? Absolutely not. Virginia Tech is a P5 schools at that makes success difficult. At this level it's a combination of talent and effort on the players part. Effort isn't isolated to physical effort on the field, it's also a matter of adopting the system and understanding expectations. Like any organization not every person who is a part of it is a good fit.
Here's my take on each of the situations:
Ultimately the coaching staff is free to develop the culture they wish to engender assuming it is not harmful to the players. It seems one thing that is important to Fuente is uniformity in the adoption of the culture. That is evident in his comments about not forcing him to choose between a player and the team. That is a departure from where Beamer was later in his career. I think talented players were afforded more leeway. Regardless both Coaches were entitled to operate their teams as they see fit and both coaches where and will be judged on the results of how they operated.
Could Trevon Hill have helped us win another game or two? Maybe. Did Fuente have to endure a lot of criticism for the outcome of the games and having that outcome juxtaposed against Hills' dismissal? Absolutely. Was that fair? Yes. That's because Fuente is entitled to run the team the way he see fits and he is also not immune to criticism of the results. That's why he's the "big whistle".
Watching the team the last two games, I am not worried about the locker room. As I have mentioned many times, I think Fuente has the potential to be a great head coach. My only concern is that he may be too loyal to assistants. Is his loyalty to assistants a bad thing? That depends on what Fuente wants out of his career and what VT fans want out of their head coach. I have never questioned Beamer's or Fuente's integrity; and as a fan that feels pretty damn good. Who knows? Maybe Cornelsen comes out next year and validates Fuente's opinion of his abilities. Maybe he doesn't. As long as Fuente is HC he will have the right to run the program as he sees fit. We all retain the right to criticize as we see fit.
At the end of the day I don't see the departures mentioned as being an indictment of the coaching staff.
I bet that was a heavy landing
Eh. I'm sure he hit the ground
runningjogging.Goode for him - He's joining the 2017 National Champs!
Also the 2018 Regular Season co-champs!
Cam Goode Lands at UCF
"And the entire state sank 4 inches."
- Hilgart, probably.
That was in poor taste, I'll see myself out.
This is kind of interesting, right? UCF has made a killing out of "diamond in the rough" players.