🚨 COACHING HIRE 🚨Please join us in welcoming Jafar Williams to our staff! DETAILS ⤵️https://t.co/JDigotUwVU #Hokies 🦃 pic.twitter.com/FMLytdHoCt— Virginia Tech Football (@VT_Football) January 26, 2019
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We shall see. If he was so good and without a job why didn't Alabama just go after him. /s
You can't just recycle good ideas from other threads.
Related: heard he's gonna take O-Line and move Vice to WRs
Nah fam, he'll coach RBs. Zohn's gonna move to O line
This is the opposite of an inspiring hire. What is going on with this program?
People said the same thing about Wiggins yet he just got hired by what most people consider the top program in the nation.
People also say Dabo went 6-7 in his third season and believe Tech is the next Clemson. It's not apples to apples.
I think that's somewhat mixing the narrative between two pretty distinct factions of the fan base. The people who point out that Clemson went 6-7 think Fuente deserves more time but generally recognize the potential of the program is not on par with that of Clemson. The people who think the potential of VT is essentially the same as Clemson generally think Fuente is the wrong coach for the job and that we should move on.
People also say you shouldn't downvote opinions.
People say a lot of things, come to think of it.
so what would have been inspiring?
Someone with a better track record? We go 6-7 and people are still acting like the house isn't on fire. TKP is better than every other site out there, but the unwillingness to admit that something is wrong is nuts to me.
The house isn't on fire. You really should look around P5 peer institutions and compare their recent down years to Techs.
Other Power 5 teams don't have a 26 year bowl streak to extend.
The house isn't burning down, but there's a small grease fire in the kitchen, and the smoke alarms are ringing.
At this point in the Fuente era, we can't say with confidence if he's going to turn it around, or if we're just going to bounce between 6 and 9 wins for the rest of his time here. I think there is legitimate concern that (1) this may not be the down(est) year, or (2) we are not able to return to the 10-win-season standard set by Beamer.
You didn't answer the question. Who specifically would you have hired? I don't know a lot of position coaches around the country, so I can't have an opinion on the guy. Just because he coached at Rutgers and UMD does not mean he is a bad coach. It also don't mean that he can't recruit.
There are only certain coaches available, there are only certain ones that coach the position that are available, and there are only certain coaches that we can afford. We could call the UGA WR coach or the Oregon WR coach, but that doesn't mean that they're going to be hired.
I'm curious to see how he does and I hope he does well.
Bio on hokiesports
Bio
I don't think it's a bad hire at all, although it looks like his skill set may be better suited to being our RB coach. UMD had a pretty impressive running game last year in the B10, although part of that may have been because they didn't have a QB with impressive passing talent. Also, with his time spent in the DMV, I would bet he has alot of good ties both in the DMV and the mid-Atlantic as a whole, so he'd sure be an asset to recruiting those fertile areas. You got to take what you can get at this point of the year, and I think for what it's worth, it seems like a solid hire to me.
Hmmmmmmmmmm
I get what you're saying, but that's not how it should be done. Take a moment to include relevant information in the original post, and if it's a duplicate thread a mod will handle it.
Joe it's a game of seconds, and I went back and added it in
My entire point is it shouldn't be a game. That's how things turn to shit. Read the community guidelines.
Thanks.
Worst - worst - case scenario?
You get to have a drink.
Hope he can recruit.
This is about the most underwhelming of a hire as one could get.
Really, this should have been easy as Fu could have, instead snagged a good RB coach that could get us that back that we need and just move Zohn to WR coach where he has had experience.
Instead we pick up an unemployed WR coach in an area of the country that isnt that well known for producing big time recruits as either VA or in the SE or Florida.
Who would you have hired? I don't know much about Williams, but maybe he is a good coach? Maybe he can recruit? Don't judge his recruiting on his time at Rutgers. It is f'ing Rutgers.
I think that's kind of the point. Maybe he'll turn out great, but why are we reduced to hiring a guy who coached at a trash Rutgers program and a 6-30 Purdue program?
because not all WR coaches are going to leave their job that may be happy with?
I'm not saying it's a good hire or a bad hire. I don't know. It's definitely a "Meh" hire.
That aside, it just seems to me like there wasn't that broad of a search done. What fan would know since VT football matters are apparently a matter of National Security. Didn't seem to be a lot of rumors regarding this position search. The upside of that is there also aren't any rumors about a DB coach replacement, so...
I hope it's a great hire. I hope that they looked at a lot of potential hires including up-and-comers, and decided Jafar was the best.
This comment is without context. Burden doesn't want to be a WR coach as he wants to diversify his resume and career - been there done that. Burden has also proven he is a solid recruiter so you want to upset your current team member to take a chance on someone else as a position coach?
By the way, position coaches didn't always play that position and recruit other positions. The move everyone to the position they played context lacks the perspective of managing employees development and pretends the environment is static - it is far more dynamic than that.
It's not overwhelming, but most underwhelming? Seems about as extreme an exaggeration as you can make. Can we split the difference and just call it a whelming hire?
Whelm?
For me the Illinois State things gets old. But like I mentioned in my other posts about this, if the person's path went through Illinois State and they have held positions at higher levels (FCS, FBS, G5, etc) along the way I am willing to keep an open mind. But if the person's only gigs where under Fuente then I have serious concerns.
I call this a plain old hire with a guy that could get the job done. Only time will tell.
Illinois State gets old? What about the 'Murray State thing'?? That only got us one of the best defensive minds in college football history and a legend of a coach.....
And I'm certain some fans complained at the time.
Yep. When Beamer was hired the buzz was all about Bobby Ross. The linked Roanoke Times article by legendary VT-hater Bill Brill, took what I consider to be a cheap shot at Beamer:
Cheap Shot
And Bobby Ross won a National Championship at GT a few years later
An beat the undefeated UVA in Hooville.
But damnit does that sweater bring back warm memories
In this scenario that we hire Bobby Ross do we eventually hire Paul Johnson cause of so the wow bullet dodged.
Does anyone know how the players feel about the hire?
They just announced his hire.
OK but the players didn't just find out today who it was going to be
OK but the players have had little to zero opportunity to work with or interact him. It's like asking someone's opinion of a restaurant they never ate at.
If Yelp is any indication, there are plenty of people willing to give just such an opinion.
Here's what Fuente said in the release:
"I knew the qualities we wanted in an assistant coach and recruiter to fill this position. Jafar possesses familiarity with our offensive philosophy, as well as our coaching style and expectations. Jafar has been through the recruiting process as a coach and a student-athlete and has built solid relationships across our region. He has also paid his dues in the coaching ranks, gained experience in a variety of different positions during his career. We're excited about him joining our coaching staff at Virginia Tech."
Aka, we found a guy who can teach slants and fade routes.
So he says hi to moms but doesn't bang them?
Grimsley weighs in
Honestly, the guy looks like a "dude". Outside appearance looks like he'd kick the shit out of someone who messes with his guys. Need a little bad ass swagger in the staff. (Just judging off the photo)
Who did everyone expect?
1) it's a WR coach, normally lower level coaches working on climbing the latter
2) None of our past players from the "golden era" of football have quality coaching experience.
3) I mean it's a WR coach not an assistant head coach.
4) as long as he keeps his pants on and teaches the guys to block and run quality routes, I could care less.
5) As far as recruiting, yea we need a lot more support staff to make up that difference. One WR coach can't make that ground up
Yeah this is what I don't understand from people saying it's an underwhelming hire. His resume seems perfectly in line for a position coach for a school like VT, right?
agreed. As much as I wanted Zohn at WRs everyone seems to be forgetting that Zohn was also plucked from obscurity. From some googling it appears Williams has a real understanding of the position so I am hoping for the best. Give the man a chance to show what he can do.
Zohn was the conference recruiter of the year at ODU. And unsurprisingly he's been a good recruiter here.
I thought we were all in agreement that any accolades at a G5 school didn't count.
We could certainly use more recruiters like Burden! Devon Hunter, Jayden Payoute, Tayvion Robinson, Keshawn King, Armani Chatman, Divine Deablo, Keshon Artis, Jahad Carter, Erik Kumah, Holston, Grimsley, Dzansi.
That's pretty damn good if you ask me.
That's my point. Burden was a proven recruiter, even at a lower level. Jafar isn't. Burdens track record indicated he was a coach on the rise. Jafars doesn't indicate anything.
Burden was also from Hampton Roads, working at a school in Hampton Roads, that primarily recruited in Hampton Roads. It was the perfect position for him as a young coach.
And Williams is from PA, went to school in MD and coached in MD. A place where he could recruit the DC/MD area.
I imagine our recruiting budget is more than Rutgers'
The general attitude when Zohn was hired was a lot higher back then because I have seen way too many "G5 experience don't count" on TKP recently. Zohn was a great recruiter at a lower level and he has kept that going. BUT he also was a young, WR position coached plucked from obscurity with no P5 experience.
Williams looks like he knows the position well which is what he is primarily hired for, but like Zohn with somewhat limited experience. Unlike Zohn he comes with P5 experience.
No reason to think this is a bad hire.
Agreed, and Williams could have the same impact in the DMV, based on his experience and ties to that area. I think from a recruiting standpoint, this is a good way to diversify our "footprint" on the region. Hey, we're going to need somebody to help battle Locksley for the prized DMV recruits.
This.
We have hired two good WR coaches before this one. Maybe we get gold three times.
Exactly. I could understand if it wasn't a big name OC or DC, but it is the WR coach.
Regarding point #4, would 'quality' routes entail efficient route running or effective route running?
Maybe this is a topic for another thread, but how many support staffers equals one ace recruiter? My assumption is that one additional staff member who can recruit like Zohn would really help out the program. Do you believe that a handful of support staff would be more useful?
Thank you! The charismatic coach who knows how to speak to these guys is only part of the equation. The other is the twelve guys who give him a 10 minutes back briefing on everything this kid has done in the public realm since the last time you talked so that you can look like you care SOOO much and have a genuine connection. It's also the money spent to wow these guys when they step foot on campus.
As much as we all want results right now, it's slowly coming along. If I am remembering correctly, we have increased our recruiting staff (maybe more than once?) since Fuente got here. We continue to invest in facilities and events that will help us in recruiting. For example, I don't remember all these cookouts and camps during Beamer's tenure.
I want to have coaches that are known to be great recruiters too, but I think there's more than just 'the man' that goes into that reputation.
Couldn't Alabama fans say of every coaching hire that didn't come from Clemson or Bama "He came from a terrible program." I mean if they are the standard and they obviously can't hire new coaches from Alabama then they could say "We either hire a coach from Clemson or we made a bad hire." To Alabama fans they could say Va Tech is equivalent to Rutgers. Point is good coaches exist at "bad programs" with bad records. The coaches felt good about this guy, Babcock seems like a good boss who you wouldn't just screw over with a random bad hire. I welcome this guy to the Hokies staff and hope he finds a great deal of success. I hate how our fans sound so spoiled, we aren't Alabama, Clemson, OSU, or OU and we will probably never recruit like Miami or FSU. But we can have good coaches and guys that play hard and compete with these programs. Let's back the players and coaches and not be a reason we lose players or coaches or possible future recruits. Go Hokies!
I'm really over the "spoiled fans" schtick. There's a significant portion of the fanbase who invest in the program one way or another (time, money, etc). It's fair enough they want to see results. Otherwise Tech stands to lose current and future investors, and that's not great.
Tech isn't a blue-chip program, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't try to do everything possible to become one and just be happy for what they have.
I don't think that's the context of what he's saying. It's more along the lines to trust the process, and don't judge a guy based solely on a resume. Alabama obviously feels Holmon Wiggins is a good coach, so it appears Fuente made a good judgment hiring Wiggins as well. He probably made a good decision here also.
When I first got into consulting, one of my more experienced co-workers told me about the 'trust bank.' The analogy is that building trust with your client works similar to saving money in a savings account - you make a lot of small deposits over time (doing the little things that right to inspire confidence, such as repeatedly delivering quality work on time, being frequently available and helpful, etc), so you can make a large withdrawal (maybe you made a mistake, maybe you need the client to trust you when a judgement call comes up, etc) when you need to.
I think the analogy can be applied here too. Fuente came to VT with a pretty high 'balance' based on his time and results at Memphis, and grew that balance (while making minimal withdrawals) throughout his first two seasons at VT. However, over the last year he's made a lot of withdrawals (mismanaged recruiting, attrition, questionable coaching decisions, poor performance, etc), and not many deposits. I get that a lot of these metaphoric withdrawals can be explained by something that was partially outside of Fuente's control, but any way you slice it, Fuente's 'trust bank balance' is declining at pretty rapid rate.
Another way to say this is to admit that I have faith in Fuente, but not confidence. I hope he can turn it around, and I think he's capable of it (mostly because of his success at Memphis), but if I'm being realistic, there is nothing trending up about the program right now.
Completely agree with your analogy and the withdrawals in confidence Fuente has made the past year. Maybe he know what he is doing or maybe not . Let him hire his coaches and recruit his players.If it works next year fine if it doesn't his ass is scalding hot!
Joe is having none of anybody's shit today I like it
Joe, getting tired of a "schtick" doesn't mean it's not true...Are you suggesting Tech isn't doing everything they can do to be a blue-chip program? I think you read some things into my post that aren't there or just interpreted it wrong.
The "spoiled fans" is complete & total BS [I'm calling it] anyways. Reasonable & moderate expectations (which the majority of the fan base has) does not make people spoiled. On another note:
You basically did fine up until the "spoilt fans" part. Probably would've done fine leaving it at that (or maybe just rephrasing it as "some of our fans are spoiled" instead of making a very sweeping, broad based generalization). Just my 10 cents.
Additionally,
Don't you think the fanbase en masse is already well-aware of that? Finally,
I've seen this mentioned A LOT in conjunction with the whole "spoilt fans" reference. If that is an actual fact, there'd be some kind of data to back it up. So my question, exclusively for OUR program (& not others), how many potential players/coaches have we lost out on due to our "spoiled fanbase"??
I'm glad you took the time to break down my post, must be a slow night for you. I never said we did lose potential players/coaches due to the fan base...I said let's not be a reason meaning while it hasn't happened to my knowledge in the past it could always happen in the future. And some of my statements were rhetorical (in order to make a statement) rather than actually make people aware of obvious facts. Due to the amount of offense you seem to have taken you are probably one of the fans that thinks the new WR coach was a bad hire, right?
On the contrary. I want (& believe) we should wait to see what happens. On one hand, yes, it's not (@ this point) an overly impressive, out-of-this-world hire. His connections to Cornelson make me feel tentative (to say the least). I also feel (given his background) it might be best that he be hired as tailbacks coach while Zohn get flipped back over to receivers coach. That said, I'm willing to wait and see where this goes. Also, in reference to what I've quoted, I was the 1st person to put up a Jafar gif. Take that into account.
Williams might turn out to be an excellent coach AND recruiter. I'm at least willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until I see his results at Virginia Tech.
I think I like this take better than the "I don't really know what this guy is all about yet but I still think it is an underwhelming hire" approach. I am not really sure what people expect. Who would have been the top three options for those who didn't like this hire? I feel like some folks are upset at this just because they want to be upset about everything in the program right now. And I get that, shitty year and it's a challenge to see the long term improvement/trajectory. But like others have said, the level of success desired by Hokie fans is a long game for VT. Until proven otherwise, I say support the staff and players and see what they've got. I really hope we don't enter purgatory like Tennessee has due to impatience by our fan base.
I'm not worried about this guy's resume. He seems to have done well given where he was at the P5 level. My question is why isn't he coaching running backs? Looks like he's had success there.
Anybody upset with this hire just wants to be upset. Trust the guy that knows his ass is one year from boiling water.
The kettle has reached the simmering point.
I like the hire, he sounds like some sort of wizard or genie. Very powerful ally to have. Work your magic Jafar! Get those croots!
People complained about G5 coaches being hired so a P5 coach was hired and it's still complaining. So the only coaching options are high profile coaches who command bigger jobs than WR coach and more money?
Well, to be entirely accurate, it was an ex-P5 coach we hired.
I know the chances of hiring an active P5 coach away are slim.
People are always going to complain. One of the perks of fandom.
I was happy when we hired Aaron Moorehead.
Only because he had a noticeable name and a Super Bowl ring but in all honesty, he's been hang on by a thread at different colleges and not really showed much interest to move up. I think our WR are fundamentally better now than when he was here. He just had a lot of fire, good guy but felt like a stop gap coach til he could get home
(Coaches being fired doesn't help him in that area of keeping a job)
I beat him in a game of pool at Big Al's the summer he was hired. He was wearing his super bowl ring and my biggest takeaway was "huh that guy looks like a mixed Vince Vaughn". That doesn't really add to anything, but I like telling people I beat a super bowl winner in something.
I won't be happy with a coaching hire until we convince someone from a blue blood to take a substantial decrease in pay for the same title at VT. In other words, until we convince Ohio State's wide receiver coach to cut his salary into 1/3rd and come to Blacksburg, I will talk shit about every coach we hire.
there is one former OSU wr coach looking for a job but i don't think we want him
You should prepare to be disappointed then, for the rest of your life.
Not sure if you're missing the joke or making a new one...
I mean, I tend to be on the side that this is an extremely underwhelming hire. Obviously they're not getting Nick Saban to come in and coach WR's at VT but there has to be somebody more qualified than a dude from Rutgers and Purdue who's been out of a job has zero notable recruiting expertise.
But I also don't really care, because after how big of a dumpster fire the last calendar year has been, this upcoming season determines if Fuente's way works or not. If there's no improvement after this most recent exodus of non-Fuente players, Williams and the rest of the staff aren't gonna be around long anyway. And if there is improvement, it's a sign that the trust we had in Fuente and his methods prior to 2018 wasn't misguided.
We should have hired Justin Harper
LoLeg
nvm. Was thinking of the wrong player
He's even got a cool name.
I think we should have only gone after Dabo or Saban for the WR coaches position. It would have given them a new challenges.
The real question: Did his receivers block downfield at Rutgers???
And could they create separation downfield?
I'll also note, if it hasn't been pointed out already that we were all also underwhelmed with Galen Scott's replacement, and look at what happened with parts of our defensive backfield this year....
I'm sure VT message boards and Twitter would have been ecstatic if they were around in 1986 when we hired Bud Foster away from Murray State. Especially since he never played in the NFL and had 4 years of experience as an assistant. Ditto for Charley Wiles in 1996. They must have closed on lots of 4* and 5* recruits while at Murray State to satisfy the fans.
I totally agree. I'm so sick of the we need a proven recruiter argument every time.
Our best chance to get traction is to find up and coming coaches who are willing to put in the energy and effort that recruiting requires.
If you ran every organization with that philosophy you would never evolve or get ahead. Experience matters, but so do talent, energy, "want-to", ambition, fit etc. etc.
(responding to your intent rather than the literal sarcastic statement): I think probably not, given the prestige and state of the program back then was drastically different than now.
Obviously the defensive backfield was disheartening, but I don't believe that the coach is the issue here - yet.
1) When he was hired he would have had Adonis, Mook and Jeremy Webb - zero for 3.
2). he missed spring practice due to the timing.
3) Bud's personal distractions and health played into the issues this year as building that relationship and trust of how to communicate and what to do in the moment takes time and experience.
4) our D line and lack of pass rush put even more pressure on our inexperienced defensive backfield.
I'm not saying Nix is gonna be the coach we need. This year there will need to be tangible improvement. I'm simply saying indicting him solely for the issues last year is too soon and lacks context.
I think Jafar will learn to recruit to Blacksburg real fast
I posted this is the Recruiting thread
To say a coach at Rutgers for 2 years can't recruit because he only landed 1 4* is silly. His average recruit for 2017 was .8798 and the team average was .8371 for a +.0427.
I would bet he was Rutgers best recruiting
Ben, stop confusing us with your facts! Leg for you, brother. I did not know that.
I was looking for an article from when he was hired at Maryland and found this one, which includes an interesting quote.
Welcome to Hokie Nation, do good things Coach!
.
.
.
.
.was that so hard?
Ironically, when I read your first line, I thought to myself "Now was that so hard?", and then I saw your last line.
It's not so hard to be realistic human beings, after all.
Amen, brother.
Welcome jafar Williams, we look forward to success on and off the field.
I doubt coach Jafar is on TKP already, but if he is he will certainly have a great pulse for the program!
Jafar Williams anagrams to "if sawmill ajar", which instills the same feeling in me as this hire: not sure how it turns out in the end, but at least it's the start of a thought?
Well Jafar as I'm concerned...
(I didn't have anything to add I just wanted to make that joke).
I tell you what Bud you were Justin time with that Pun....
Do I get double points? :)
Jafar, Jafar, He's our man
If he can't do it
RUN
I'm going to propose a thought exercise.
Let's say the terrible incidents that went on at Maryland which led to the dismissal of Durkin didn't happen. It's Williams' first year on staff at Maryland and under his tutelage redshirt freshman running back Anthony McFarland has a breakout season, rushing for over 1,000 yards and 7.9 yards per carry, including 2 200+ yard games in his last 3, and earns 2nd team all Big 10 honors. Durkin is retained at the end of the season and Williams is retained in his position until he is hired away by Virginia Tech. Does that seem like a coach who would be viewed as a uninspired hire treading water at low level P5 schools or a coach who has worked his way up the ranks starting to show a lot of promise?
Can you get to the part in the thought exercise where I'm paid 6 figures to be the TKP liaison coach? 'Cause that part is going to rock.
Wrong thread.
I'm not the biggest fan of ducks either but you sound a little prejudiced against all water fowl.
I've spent the last hour or so going through 247 recruiter rankings and cross referencing them against the USA today assistant coach salary database. If you assume that $300k-ish is the most we can afford right now (Wiggins was making $280), and we could hire any current RB or WR coach (Zohn could slide back to WR coach if necessary), Jafar might be the best realistic option.
The reality is, at $300k, we're not luring away any proven coaches. We're either getting a young up-and-comer (hopefully Jafar fits this category), or we're getting people who have recently been demoted from P5 to G5 (Charlie Williams, for example). There's not many coaches who fall into that latter category.
EDIT:
After sleeping on it, I've found a way to talk myself into this hire.
(although the only other offers said recruit had were BC, Buffalo, UConn, and Duke), but that's still gotta count for something(Edit #2: This kid had a ton of offers, I forgot to click the link on his profile that said 'view complete team list - looks like it only displayed the first 5 schools alphabetically).I know everyone wants 'new blood' in the coaching staff to offer a 'fresh perspective,' but in reality this is high risk hiring move. There are hundreds of case studies discussing the importance of cultural fit within a management structure, and I think the same thing applies to a football staff. It's too soon to tell if Jafar is the next Zohn Burden, or just another body, but his ceiling is definitely high.
Pretty sure that 4* had offers to Ohio State, Penn State and VT among others. Or am I completely misreading this page?https://247sports.com/Recruitment/Bo-Melton-89226/RecruitInterests/
Nope, I am completely misreading the page. I went to his profile and didn't click the link on his profile that said 'view complete team list' - looks like it only displayed the first 5 schools alphabetically.
Oh, there's a big surprise. I think I'm gonna have a heart attack and die, from that surprise.
Maybe we should give the guy a year on the job first and then make a judgement? Who cares about what he did or did not too at a previous school..
I'm going with BAG's read. He looks like a DUDE and will bring some swagger.