Buzz Williams to Texas A&M is 'Done': Sources https://t.co/YAP0Xuqmnx— Adam Zagoria (@AdamZagoria) March 30, 2019
Article cites multiple sources around the A&M program, along with the fact that an offer was extended this morning. It was a great ride. Grateful for everything Buzz did for the program. Here's to hoping Whit can shock the CBB world again.
WASHINGTON — Buzz Williams will be the next head coach at Texas A&M after his Virginia Tech team lost here in the Sweet 16 to Duke on Friday night, multiple sources said.
"That's done," one source said before Duke edged out Virginia Tech, 75-73, to advance to the Elite Eight.
Williams, 46, is a Greenville, Texas native and former A&M assistant under Billy Gillispie from 2004-06."He's a Texas guy, he will make a gazillion dollars there and, of course, the state is loaded with players," a second source said.
Comments
It may be, but "anonymous sources from A&M" aren't any different than the rumors we've already been hearing.
A source said this BEFORE the game was over last night? Buzz said he hadn't heard anything AFTER the game.
None of us want to believe, friend.
Leave me alone! I'm still in the denial phase.
Yea I've been fighting this for weeks, but per sauces he gone. He gone and he ain't coming back.
I have no idea what will happen, but I have yet to see one article that has what I would consider a credible source. Until I hear it from Whit or Buzz's mouth, I will still have faith.
Hopefully this doesn't drag out for too much longer..
The seventh rule of Buzz Club is that this will go on for as long as it needs to.
We've tolerated it for the duration of the tournament, so now it sort of doesn't matter.
Edit: I'm talking about the desperation of grasping for unnamed sources for a scoop announcement of what Buzz is going to do.
Hearty disagree here.
The Buzz move will be huge news today. Best case scenario, Whit has someone already in place or in the slot and can announce during this weekend's games.
The perception will be that VT is down and out since we lost our lovable, awesome coach - Whit needs to counterpunch here. He won't make a hasty bad hire just to fill the position fast, but it behooves us to move quickly if at all possible.
You're heartily disagreeing with something I didn't say. I'm talking about the announcement of what Buzz is going to do. We don't have to desperately cling to reports by unnamed sources.
I didn't say Whit needs to drag his feet. I'm saying that it doesn't matter if Buzz's decision isn't resolved by lunch, just because we have anxious fans.
"hearty"; "resolved by lunch"
Did you say "hasty" or "tasty"?
I guess we're all hungry for some news.
But we shouldn't be so hungry that we snack on unnamed aTm sources.
I would prefer it just get announced so Whit can start in earnest (if he already hasn't) in hiring his replacement
Hunch - Whit has the next guy lined up
Let's just say he probably has some options.
He'll also fight to keep Buzz.
My bet is we take Wojo
I have the feeling Whit will work as quick as possible in Buzz's replacement. While Buzz turned the program around, Whit was the one that made it happen and I'm confident he will hire the best candidate to make it happen again.
We are in good hands.
I wish they'd hurry up and figure out what's going on, make it official, and let's move on from this shit.
What's the rush at this point?
Because if he is leaving let's get moving on getting the best candidate possible instead of potentially losing them to another school. We have had so many threads on this, will he won't he, time to move on either way
This isn't going to be measured in milliseconds. I have no doubt that this will be resolved one way or the other within days.
Unlike the Weaver summer picnic nonsense, if it has to happen, this is an OK time of year.
Let's say Whit wanted Nate Oats as his top guy. He's no longer available because he already went to Bama. If it is done, then its is done. Call a press conference and let everybody move on. I don't see how waiting is beneficial for any of the parties. Buzz can tell the players today and then call the presser and head to A&M.
It won't be announced until a) Buzz has decided, and b) the terms are agreed.
Nobody is saying Buzz should wait any longer. What I'm saying is that "unnamed sources" have their own motivations for announcing things before they're actually decided.
So here we go. I've held my cards during this, because I didn't feel like letting speculation on a coaching change diminish my enjoyment of the first Sweet 16 run of my lifetime.
First and foremost, a deep and sincere thank you to Coach. I am not sure anyone else could have pulled off this complete rebuild of a program. It took a complete culture change and complete buy-in to pull VT men's hoops out of the shit-encrusted cellar it was in, and Buzz was the perfect fit. He did to the basketball program what Frank did to the football program. That is no exaggeration. At all.
It is specifically because of this perfect fit that I say this move simply does not make sense. VT is a football school first, yes, but aTm is a football only school. When Buzz came here, the fanbase was checked out, because the JJ hire cemented that basketball was a distant second fiddle in the athletics department. At aTm, the fanbase is checked out, and their team is consistently good. The Aggie faithful will never embrace Buzz the way Hokie Nation has, because it is impossible to make those fans care about basketball. It doesn't matter how many runs Buzz goes on, or how deep into the tournament they go, the hoops team will be eclipsed the moment spring football starts in College Station.
Ultimately, home is home, I guess. The Texan is returning to Texas. But ultimately, I think Buzz will be the one to lose out on more from this move. Our program is rebuilt. (Again, thank you, Buzz.) We are ready to keep improving. Meanwhile, aTm has just proven they will dismiss a coach with two recent Sweet 16 appearances. The money is better, but Buzz wasn't spending nearly everything he made here. So I just don't see what Buzz gets out of this except a shorter leash and an ungrateful fanbase.
Great summary. You should @ Buzz on Twitter with this.
I agree with just about everything here, except...
You're right, it's exactly the same thing that Beamer did... between 1992 and 1995. He took over a program that earned their first bowl win in 1986, but that immediately fell back to mediocrity due to extenuating circumstances, culminating in a 2-8-1 season in 1992. We were in the process of joining the Big East, where we were expected to hang out in the basement with Rutgers and Temple, but in our first full season in 1993 we went 9-3 with another bowl win. Two years later, we had made three straight bowl games, and suddenly arrived on the national scene with a huge upset win in the Sugar Bowl against Texas.
Buzz Williams took over a team that had been mired in the ACC basement for 3 straight years. His first year, still in the basement, and quick improvement seemed unlikely. The following year, we were mid-pack in the best basketball conference in the country, and made the NIT. And now, 3 years later, we have 3 straight NCAAT appearances for the first time in school history, and arrived on the national scene by being ranked in the top-25 the entire season, and making the Sweet 16, coming a missed layup from sending the game against the #1 overall seed to overtime for a shot at the next round.
What Buzz has not done, however, is create sustained success, or even sustainable success. Beamer stuck around after leading us to the national stage, keeping us there for the majority of the following 16 years and leaving us in decent shape for his eventual successor. If Buzz leaves, he'll forever be the coach that proved that success can happen in Blacksburg, but it'll be up to the next coach to turn our sudden flash of success into something sustainable.
It's like you read my mind. That was exactly the timeframe I was thinking of when I made that comment, and this Sweet 16 run reminds me of the Sugar Bowl win against Texas. Buzz could be the Frank Beamer of Virginia Tech basketball if he hung around and made us a perennial contender. Instead, his legacy will be like if Beamer took the UNC job. I just didn't elaborate on any of that, because I was worried about losing my train of thought if I got off on that metaphorical tangent. But you absolutely nailed what I was thinking and added some needed context to what I was saying. Thank you for that.
If Buzz wants to do what Beamer did, he'll have to stick around and make the program a regular feature of the sweet sixteen.
Ideally with a national championship.
I do believe he could do this. The only question is "Will he?"
If Buzz stays and gets us back to the NCAA's next year after Robinson, Hill, and Outlaw have graduated and supposedly with NAW off to the NBA. That would be sustainable winning.
I'm not sure if I agree that our "program is rebuilt." While I have confidence in Whit, Buzz could leave us with a cupboard almost as bare as when he got here with the seniors leaving, likely NAW, possibly KBJ, and possibly Nolley. Even with a good hire, we're down to Bede, Wilkins, and Kabongo and that's gonna take years to turn it around to relevancy again.
I mean, it wasn't long ago that Pitt and Wake were perennial contenders and look at them now. Just worried is all but part of me can't diminish how far of a drop we might be about to take.
Money, being closer to home, more money, an easier conference to win in, and more money. Personally I'm tired of reading/talking about this, though I understand the angst.
Then why are you in this thread?
Lol man come on. This is something like the 5th thread in the last week with 100+ comments about this topic. Regardless of the reasons, I feel justified in commenting on how the amount of time discussing this topic is exhausting.
Hey man got to keep traffic flowing to the site lol
I don't know, I see a lot of comments on the fishing and EPL threads but don't go in there to complain about all the comments and time wasted talking about it.
It sounds so much worse when you say it like that. Good thing I didn't actually say it like that.
There has been a lot of angst over this topic, and not a whole lot of new information to chew on. That's all I'm saying. I'm definitly not policing people on what they want to talk about. Jeez.
I think I'm just gonna put my phone down and spend the day enjoying the lovely weather with my family getting things done around the house.
I can't take this shit anymore
In Whit we trust.
Would love to see KBJr, Nolley and Clarke return along with Bede, Wilkins and crew. With that nucleus we are a legit team.
It's not done until it's done. And I'm sure Whit is pulling out all stops to keep this from happening. And last night was an amazing night. Texas is no longer home. VT is home
If Buzz wants to go home. So be it. Thanks for the rebuild. I personally would love to see a guy like Johnnie Dawkins coaching our program. We see what he has done at UCF. I certainly don't want a first time head coach, that experiment has expired. I believe Whit has known about this for awhile so I am confident he has had his feelers out there already. He will do what is right. Oh and btw, I can't wait to kick Ta&m's ass in the second round of the tournament next year, if he makes it there at all. No hard feelings, it's all about taking care of business.
Yes. I've been wondering why we aren't hearing more about Dawkins. I have heard his name linked to Vandy's search but not yet to VT's. You have to know Coach k would hate having to face his prodige in-conference.
If we are talking about Dukies, what about Bobby Hurley? I think he'd want to get a shot in the ACC and Hurley had had a lot of success at Buffalo and ASU.
I think he's trying to wait out Coach K retiring...as soon as that happens...Dawkins should be the very first call made..
That's not how tampering rules work. They're not meant to protect unwilling participants (I..e. The player). They're meant to protect the employer/team. So whether the player/coach is willing is irrelevant. It's meant to keep other teams from contacting them at all.
That being said, no idea if there are anti tampering rules as to coaches.
Dawkins? He's behind Brey, Wojo, Hurley, Collins, Capel, Amaker and maybe Scheyer for that job.
Wojo and Capel are the only two thats really true for. Hurley hasn't done all that well and Collins hasn't come close to upholding Duke standards. Brey is interesting but he doesn't have the ties to the school and coach K that some of these other guys do (plus he never played there)
FWIW I'm hearing that no decision has been made by coach yet. It'll get made today or tomorrow.
Over? Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
Nothing is over 'till Buzz says it is.
It's difficult (most of the time) for me to get angry at someone else witb more cash to burn than we do. Gotta have the green to make the scene. It ain't aTm's fault we didn't possess the funds necessary to retain Buzz. That's on us.
It's not just about the money, it's also about Buzz being from Texas. Not something we can control, he's going to do what he wants.
I know. That's correct. But I gotta believe that if we were able to match (or exceed) aTm's offer, it gives us a better chance (statistically) of retaining his services.
So, just an observation here. If there are rumors or speculation about Buzz leaving, there has to be rumors or speculation about his replacement, right? Do we know of other fanbases that are lamenting the as of yet unannounced departure of their coach for VT? What about Whit's short list?
Apparently Tech keeps better secrets than A&M...
Over the years I've started to wonder if most of these "leaks" are strategic. Maybe at first, aTm wanted Buzz to know that he was "their guy", that they weren't even talking to anyone else yet. Maybe they leaked it to gauge the reaction of their fanbase (I'm certain that's what happened with Tennessee and Greg Schiano). Maybe there's some other reason.
You'd think that if they didn't want the news out there, that it wouldn't always leak out quite so easily.
That doesn't account for the lack of noise from other fan bases worried about losing their coach to VT due to leaks. There are too many opportunities for leaks these days. The idea that every target and every targets fan base, boosters and media have been silent on whom Whit may be interested in is completely unlikely. There's always, at the very least, noise. Would I prefer Buzz make a statement? Probably but the question is what would he make a statement about? If A&M has not officially reached out there is nothing he can really say that would enhance his position at either school.
The "noise" from aTm just today went from "hey, there's a few people saying this might happen" to "oh shit, everyone is saying this is likely to happen". There hasn't been much time for people to follow up with their sources to get a feel for who our candidates would be. We'll probably start seeing speculation about who may or may not be a candidate by tomorrow, and at that point other fanbases will start freaking out like we have been for the last week.
Frank Martins people are throwing his name out there, but that feels like a "I want a raise or extended contract" type of thing
We'll always love you Buzz. Thank you.
There's more info behind a paywall but, I'll make it easier for everyone.
He gone... he been gone. He's brought a lot to VT but could have been WAY more without him flirting to leave for a long time
I'm curious to know what you are implying. We all know he has flirted with opportunities every off-season which seems to have given him more resources. I guess Whit could only extend but so far?
It's definitely not a Whit thing and Buzz wasn't shopping to force Whit's hand. (If Im reading this right)
More info will come out later and Im bordering on paywall info but, he gone... he been gone
Best of luck to Buzz at A&M, and much thanks and gratitude for all that he has done for VT, and for always doing it in a first class way. Now, hoping Whit makes another great basketball coaching hire, and that we whip the living dogshit out of A&M if we get the opportunity. No hard feelings, Buzz, but you're either with us, or you're not
Whatever happens Buzz has been great for Tech. I can assure you Whit has been prepared for this situation every year and will have a very good replacement on board as soon as he announces he's leaving (if he does)
Nice kick to the nuts after that dick punch from last night. I'm going to ice down my marbles.
Use the champagne.
Yours, Z
As I said before, I hope his contract makes A&M folks pucker. Take that fu money Buzz and show them what it really means.
Okay. I just saw it may be 3.5 mil/yr. That is not what I was hoping to see. That won't make A&M folks blink.
There is definitely some negotiating going on, but I won't be particularly impressed until I see what I consider to be a verified source.
Many of the current rumors seem to be from the same unverified source.
The timing of this is rotten. We just lost in the Sweet 16 last night and supposedly it's all done today?
I appreciate all he did for us, but this timing is tough. I'm going to refrain from saying too much right now but my opinion of his tenure is taking a pretty big hit with the way this has gone down
I'm kind of in agreement with you after reading a lot about how this may have been a done deal for a while now. Absolutely love Buzz and appreciate the success he has brought to VT basketball, but it's definitely not going to lead to sustained success. If he's moving on, he's tearing the floor up and taking it with him, as we will have a pretty bare cupboard to work with next year.
I just knew since he was hired he would likely not be at VT for the long haul. He has definitely elevated the perception of the program and the expectations for what VT basketball can be, but I want someone who will be sold on VT and competing against the best in the ACC. Building a sustainable, successful program and not just building us up and leaving once the fruits of the labor start to show.
Tech isn't a blue-chip program, you can't fault the guy for wanting to go closer to home. The way I look at it, is if I had a decent job that I enjoyed, but a new opportunity with more money that brought me closer to my family, I'd be gone in a heartbeat.
We knew from day one that Buzz wasn't the Boeheim type. If the cupboard is bare now (I don't think it is, but for the sake of argument), you have to think he's weighing do I want a bare cupboard at VT, or a bare cupboard close to home/family/more money. For me, the decision would be easy, TX bound.
I don't care that he's leaving. I get it, it's close to home and they have more money. Whatever
I care that this was supposedly finalized less than 12 hours after the team was eliminated. At least let the smoke clear from the season ending, first. Did he go back to the hotel and immediately meet with A&M officials? Or, even worse, was he busy negotiating while we were supposed to be preparing for these games?
The team looked pretty prepared to me for that game last night, so I don't think that was an issue. Also, I'd rather it happen quick if it's going to happen.
Eh, im perfectly fine with that. It's a cut throat world Alum, and I'm sure you know this as well, business is business. He has to do what's in the best interest of his family. And if TAM wants to push this process along he can't wait to be sentimental and sensitive to our feelings as a fan base.
Honestly, I wouldn't be annoyed even if he had announced it at the post game press conference. The guy has done more than enough for me. To compare him and Frank is apples to oranges for me (not saying you made that comparison, just others have in this thread). Frank had ties to the school, Buzz has always been a mercenary who's primary interest is his own and his family. I don't say that in a negative sense, I'm not salty at all. I appreciate a great ride, now it's time to start a new one, regardless if it's bumpy or upward from here
This right here is exactly how I feel about it too.
I have never lost sleep after a basketball game and I sure did last night.
What was going through my mind was how terrific Buzz has been getting this program turned around and now within hours apparently the ink has already dried.
I hope somehow this turns into the ending of the Abyss "knew this was a one way trip" only to have our Bud/Buzz resurface "alive" still head BB coach at VT.
Probably not though!
I agree and definitely don't fault him on the family aspect. If home is the most important thing, by all means go for what makes you happy. However as has been mentioned in previous posts in this thread, the grass isn't always greener. More money, sure. But aTm has tons of money, high expectations, and little patience. He has a chance to stay here and be the Beamer of VT basketball, but if he can't turn the Aggies into instant winners, he could be dealing with tons of pressure and looking elsewhere in a few more years.
Can't help but feel this way too.
I concur. Maybe it's sour grapes, but there's no loyalty anymore. It's like a bunch of mercenaries coach rising teams just to pad their resume for their eventual destination. Guess I would feel better if we were that destination. I think the opportunity Buzz has in front of him is the same opportunity he would have here in a couple more years of continued success.
The one thing I will say is it sucks cause it's A&M, a program that doesn't really feel like much of an upgrade (basketball wise).
I expect that Whit knew Buzz was going to be a short term fix. Buzz has been an incredibly useful tool to elevate our program, something needed to kick start our shooty hoops program.
Thanks Buzz, I hope that our next coach figures out that being a Hokie is something special.
I just hope that VT is Whit's dream job.
Few things
And the ACC argument isn't looking that good right now with an all SEC regional final on tap for tomorrow as a result of Roy's boys getting their doors blown off.
So they are guaranteed to get one team into the final four. Kentucky.
A team that's been to the final four how many times?
17. Tied for 2nd place all time with UCLA.
How is that an argument against the ACC?
Auburn just went through 2 perennial tourney teams like hot butter. Tennesseewas ranked in the top 5 all year, and Kentucky is Kentucky. the SEC is coming around.
The SEC is extremely top-heavy. The ACC has a core group of 3 teams that are overall about as good as or better than the top 3 in the SEC, but there are a number of teams that can threaten to compete near their level any given year. Hell, we might've been the 3-seed in the ACCT if J-Rob hadn't been injured for most of ACC play.
.
Possibly the two seed - I really think Five would've made the difference in all the close losses we had while he was out.
The SEC has some good teams this year.
But the rumors of the demise of the ACC in basketball is a bit premature.
Florida won 2 championships in a row not that long ago. That didn't make the SEC the premier basketball conference and neither will an Auburn/UK elite 8 matchup this year.
Doesn't have to be the premiere conference to still be a good conference.
Your second point is incorrect. Yes, aTm has been to more NCAA tournaments than we have (14 total vs. 11), but not by any substantial margin. Also, they have been to the Sweet 16 a number of times, but they have never made it to the Elite 8, whereas we made one appearance in 1967.
A year ago, I'd probably have agreed with you, considering we hadn't won an NCAAT game in over a decade and aTm was fresh off their second Sweet 16 appearance in 3 years, but with the way they fell off this year combined with the fact that we are fresh off our best season ever I would say that we're at least even, if not slightly in our favor. Now, they can probably offer more money than we can, and they have slightly more history than we do, but honestly the two jobs seem pretty much on the same level to me.
Grieving loss is no fun!!!
Denial = not willing to even acknowledge that there is a loss.
Anger = knowing there's a loss, but not willing to except ANY of the disappointment!
Bargaining = only willing to accept a short term solution to a long term problem.
Depression = finally coming to grips with the downside of the situation.
Acceptance = fully accepting the upside and the downside of the situation....
Where are you currently???
For me, I think after last night's loss to the Dukies, I finally left "bargaining". I'm sad today! What a great run! I have waited since Dell Curry and Bimbo Coles to be this excited about VT basketball again!!! The team I watched last night was everything I hoped we could be this year! I'll miss this team and our coach!!!
Guess I still have another step to go!
Jamon, Zabian, and Deron are waiting for you out back...
I don't think any "shade" was intended to those guys. It's all a matter of perspective. As a guy who grew up watching VT basketball in the 80s, I agree with the original statement here. The key (to me) was the phrase "as excited". No doubt, VT has had some solid teams since the Dell and Bimbo era, but I agree it hasn't been "as exciting" as that until now. It's all perspective and relative, though, no doubt.
yes!!! Thanks for clarifying! I think that's just when I iriginally became a fan!
Yeah, I didn't think you were seriously dissing every team in between. Just making a joke because, at least in my opinion, those guys were a lot of fun to watch as they were knocking down the ACC "giants" when the whole league scoffed at us joining their ranks in basketball.
I didn't get into VT basketball until the early Greenberg years, so I can't truly understand how it felt for you guys who saw those great teams back in the day.
Us OLD guys... ;-)
Hey there, I resemble that remark. Strongly. And yeah, it was a lot of fun going to basketball games before things tanked there for a while, and we still went to several games a year even then. We had some really talented players and some scrappy teams along the way.
I wish there were a way to quantify how many points Dell would have scored in his Hokie career had there been a three point shot during his career at Virginia Tech. As it was he had 2389 points in his four year career from 1983-1986 seasons WITHOUT three pointers(other than 1 game I think where the Metro experimented with it). Having watched many of those games during the time I attended Tech, many of his shots were from what would have been beyond the arc(where do you think Steph learned his shot? lol) and with his ability to shoot them I have no doubt Charlie Moir would have designed his offense to give Dell even more opportunities for them. I truly believe he would have easily eclipsed 3000 points with today's three point line and perhaps closer to 3500! Oh and he also was 6-1 with a 3.87 ERA as a relief pitcher for the baseball team. This link ( https://fightinggobbler.com/2017/03/24/virginia-tech-flashback-friday-de... ) shows a story about him including a video of the final minutes of the victory over #2 and then undefeated Memphis State who would have been #1 had they won. The Hokies' win coupled with UVA beating #1 undefeated UNC two days earlier resulted in my favorite headline of the time. "Welcome to Virginia-check your undefeated record at the border!"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregg_Marshall
My number one choice by far.
Looking at my replacement candidate list, he's currently listed as Plan A, B, and C. Break the bank. Give him whatever terms he wants. Petition the state to make him Warden of the New River Valley. Whatever it takes
He's been rumored to be linked to just about every major coaching job each off season, and he never leaves.
I don't think that'll happen.
I doubt it as well, but given his ties to the area I'd like to think he would VT more of a look than others schools that have come calling in the past.
IIRC the jobs he's been linked to have been much better than VT.
Maybe he's just waiting for the VT job to come open /s
Why are we still talking and feeling bad about basketball? Football season started today and runs until around New Year's.
Don't know about you, but football definitely didn't make me feel any better last year
Well, the first week did at least. It was short lived.
Second week too.
Like pulling off a band aid near your crotch. Just yank it!
Who's on flight tracker duty?
FYI Brenham is about 38 miles from College Station. link to flightaware log
You bet your ass they are coming to us. Not wasting our private jet miles on some job interviews.
I certainly hope that Whit wouldn't let him use the school's jet for a job interview.
Same plane that picked up Jimbo when he left FSU
Same plane
Leg, for connecting some actual dots. (also for chaseg16)
With that big pile of cash we keep hearing about you would think they could afford a better plane a twin prop..
/s
Looks like it's scheduled, but I don't see any actual flight data.
Interestingly enough, I don't see the flight at all now
"What are you telling me? He fixed the log books?"
Who ordered the code Buzz?
Interesting.
Looks like the flight never happened. That suggests something they were planning did not happen. Perhaps they were a little too aggressive or presumptive?
This article leaves little doubt that this is THE plane.
I am surprised they're filing a flight plan! Come on Secret Squirrel!
Rumors on TSL he didn't come back with the team. Expect an announcement tomorrow. Further, it sounds like a tentative deal was in place before the season started (a la Jimbo Fisher).
That would really piss me off if true.
Mostly because it might have affected recruiting.
Well yeah.
If this is true he signed a class and recruited others knowing he wasn't going to be here next year. It means he would have misled the recruits on signing for a school he already had an agreement to not coach or he was actually recruiting these kids with them knowing they were going to play for Texas A&M, misleading us. For a guy that stresses so much about doing the right thing, that would be a very very curious situation to realize happened.
For that reason, I really hope this isn't true.
I'm with you on these thoughts. I've been rolling these thoughts through my head all day. Bugs the shit out of me. Im very conflicted.
So if A&M had made the final four, then they were still going to get rid of the head coach?? I hope not..
I only hesitate to believe that there was a preseason agreement because if Billy Kennedy made another tournament run and they canned him anyway they would look like some absolute villains.
Yes I know, they probably don't care about being seen as villains.
Highly doubt this.
I would not highly doubt this. Doubt maybe, but highly doubt I do not. Billy Kennedy is a good coach, but was diagnosed with early onset Parkinson's about 5 years ago. This year gave them an out. They lost a ton of players to graduation from their sweet 16 team last year. Tamu had to know their team wasn't tourney bound this year and could easily have been making early preparations. They fired a guy that made two sweet 16s the last three years that had an incredibly young team this year, but a top 25 class coming in next year (22 according to 247). This was obviously a strategic move by A&M. You highly doubt this strategy occurred in the last month?
So let me get this straight. A&M is coming to Blacksburg to interview him. And yet Buzz didn't go back to Blacksburg with the team.... Wut.
I call BS on that part
Prefacing this with I have absolutely #nosauces on this...
..but if he didn't come back with the team last night. Perhaps he went to College Station last night and his return flight is the one that popped up on flight aware.
Or that flight on flight aware is completely a coincidence. At this point, I'm not sure it really matters. All signs indicate he is gone. It was a hell of a ride.
Okay so let me get this straight. He scheduled a flight at some point past 1 a.m. and left the team just like that to Texas, when he would have been planning on staying in DC all weekend had we won?
I work with a connected TAMU booster. He told me they were getting Buzz back in September, and he was fairly confident
. I would not doubt they had the plan in place and had at least initial conversations last summer.
It makes sense given what we know about Buzz. He is his own agent and is a known workaholic. He works too hard during the season to negotiate a new contract on the side. It is being reported that a deal is done no more than 8 hours after our game ended. He would have had to have worked out the details of this contract over the summer.
Regardless of how this makes you feel about Buzz, he loved the guys on this team. I think he gave them his absolute all this season was completely focused on seeing what they could accomplish.
Are there regulations regarding tampering with coaches similar to pro players???
How can it be considered tampering if Buzz is his own agent? Seemingly a willing participant..
Because he is under contract to provide these services to another university.
The NFL defines tampering as
"Any public or private statement of interest, qualified or unqualified, in another club's player to that player's agent or representative, or to a member of the news media.''
"Any interference by a member club with the employer-employee relationship of another club or any attempt by a club to permissibly induce a person to seek employment with that club or with the NFL'' is also a violation of the NFL's anti-tampering policy.
Obviously there are buyout terms to allow coaches to end employment prior to the termination of a contract but I do not know if there is any anti-tampering rule related to personnel under contract at an NCAA institution. I had been under the impression that universities had to receive permission from the university that has a coach under contract to allow them to discuss changing employer.
It makes sense given what we know about Buzz.
Yeah - it explains why he didn't sweat nearly as much this year.
Dude has not recruited a player to tech all year. He is leaving us with the cupboard bare. Expect next year to be like JJs first.
Except for the 4 players that committed here in October. Not to mention the JUCO player projected to commit here. The only thing we aren't set to have next year is experience. The recruits aren't the issue
Some of those guys will probably ask for their release from their LOI. Tech will probably grant it, it's somewhat customary. The hope would be that the incoming coach could also bring players from their school. KBJ could grad transfer. The potential roster could get hammered
We should be a destination, though. We are in the Maui invitational and just won 10 games in the ACC. We may lose a couple guys, but (a) many will stay and (b) if they leave, we are in a good enough place to get good replacements.
I can't promise you what our roster will look like, but idk if as many people will bail as you think
Well this is gonna suck guess it was fun being a basketball school while it lasted
We're a wrasslin school now.
I agree there is risk, but the thought that everyone is going to leave feels like panic and not reality. Nolley leaving would be unlikely with him having to sit another year as a result. KJ could, but very much iffy and might depend on who the next coach is amongst other decisions. Additionally, while true that recruits (4 this year so far) might leave with the coach (see Hill from Marquette to Vt) it's unlikely everyone will.
We are still an Acc school with a higher job profile, several solid players on the roster and the new coach brings opportunity along with risk - don't forget that.
Also, I am a Buzz fan, but for this blaming us for not having enough money I don't believe it's a reality if we matched the offer he stays. This is a place with personal history, ties to home and more money than anyone. This is a one-time situation and you can't compete with that offer cumulatively. Blaming one component of the offer is simple-minded and feels emotional.
What would you do if your former employer who you liked, near your hometown and in your home state that you love offered you a lottery ticket job with all the trimmings. Should your former employee be mad because they screwed up or is that just a situation out of their control?
The rumor is that we offered a higher salary ($4.5m. AAV) than what he took at a&m ($3.5m AAV) and he turned it down.
For one thing, rumors are rumors. For another, unlike what some people seem to think, I doubt Buzz does things JUST for money.
He'll do what he wants to do.
That seems too high for us.
Interesting. So, A&M isn't even willing to pay Buzz what VT is with all the money they have. That should be a warning sign.
I don't think this the no-brainer people are making it out to be.
Over 5 years the difference between 3.5M and 4.5M is pretty significant (17.5M vs 22.5M).
From what I understand the TAMU deal would be 10 years. I'm guessing ours is 5 years. Buzz mentioned not wanting to coach forever. 22.5M goes a long way to making that the case by the time he's 51.
The other thing to consider is how far the school is willing to go. 3.5M from TAMU is kind of a joke considering their finances. If they aren't willing to pay VT money for a coach what else are they not willing to do? Assistants salaries? When Buzz arrived basketball may have been a distant second to football. As of now, I'd say he has them on par. VT can and does go to toe to toe with "blue bloods" and even wins at times. Basketball will never even come close to being on par with football at TAMU.
If Buzz wants to leave behind a legacy and an indelible mark on a program, VT is the place to do it.
This times 1000000000 if they're not gonna go nuts on his offer other than being home which is a big one does A&M offer that we aren't I'm thinking it may not be as done as some think it is quite yet
Well, Butch Beard, HC at Texas Tech, is another Texas guy who might be heading to the Final Four, and has posted some impressive teams in his own right. Let's hope that he wins the tournament and A&M turns their attention to him instead of Buzz. Wishful thinking, perhaps.
They're not turning anything, unless Buzz turns them down.
do we have any new rumors this morning? seems to have quieted down since yesterday
Seriously. I just want this to be over. I went camping last night and expected to wake up to this being on the front page of ESPN, but instead, zip.
Makes me wonder whats going on. Is a&m negotiating too hard? Are Buzz's expectations too much?... Is Whit putting up a strong offer to keep him?
If this thing had been in the works for years there must be something big holding-up the final offer and decision making, and hopefully this works out in our favor.
Yesterday Whit gave a quote that was something like "not sure what he's gonna do but we'd sure like to have him around for a long time".
If Buzz was already gone, what would be the benefit of saying that? The longer it goes....
From everything I've heard, it sounds like aTm is trying to pull out all the stops, but Buzz probably hasn't told anyone anything definitive. And considering that he has his own motivations for just about everything he does, it's a fool's errand to try to predict where he's gonna be next year.
In any case, I hope he stays, but wouldn't be surprised if he leaves.
If he indeed decides to go, for the sake of the program (recruits, coaching search, existing team), I'm sure he'll decide soon.
None of those things will be affected whether the decision takes minutes or days.
The only thing being affected right now is fan angst.
I don't see how you can say that while coaches are in negotiations and being hired meanwhile we're on the back burner. Alabama already took Oats off our board. Buzz is gone. Let it go so we can move on
If Oats were interested in the VT job and in contention for it, I can assure you he'd still be available.
I have a lot of faith that Whit is doing what needs to be done all around.
If Oats was a serious candidate he probably wouldn't be at Bama, or we didn't match an offer. Very little reason to think any delays here are truly affecting our capability to find a coach. Just affecting our desire for this to be over
We can't even extend an official offer because we still have a head coach. Until something is official, we are in a state of limbo where it is doubtful that a coach of the caliber we're looking for will wait around for our job to open at the risk of losing his chance at the #2 job should Buzz decide to stay.
Just because nothing is publicly known doesn't mean we're sitting on our hands privately.
Is there a #2 opening at the moment? I'm saying if Oats was our guy and wanted the gig most likely would've sat on any other offers until this plays out. Candidates I'm sure have been aware for a while and while official makings have been put on hold, I believe Whit has next coach lined up already #nosauces
The thing is, a coach who is in demand can't necessarily wait around. What if you're waiting for something to open, it doesn't, and other schools have filled their vacancies?
If a school wants someone badly enough, they'll make it worth their while even if they accepted another job.
Chris Beard was UNLV's coach for 19 days before Texas Tech hired him.
I won't really be surprised either way.
I believe in the value proposition at VT, so I see it as a personal decision by Buzz.
If he didn't come back with the team, so what? If he's gone, he's gone.
Short of winning an NCAA Championship Buzz ultimately did EXACTLY what we needed him to do, which was prove to the doubters that a program in the southwestern mountains of Virginia can become a tourney team with aspirations at making a run and winning championships. That's life changing for our program. We gotta hope that Whit sticks the landing with his second Bball hire, ideally a candidate to build on that foundation. Perhaps this next one will be the long term coach we all want.
Personally I'll forever be thankful for Buzz changing VT for the better. I wish him nothing but success in his future, unless he plays us. (provided that all the signs are correct and he is gonzo)
What we need is for him to stay and challenge Duke, UNC, and Virginia for ACC domination.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining. Even one Sweet Sixteen appearance was sweet. But I'm not going to concede that VT basketball is forever changed until I see a continuing trend.
I think this is a tad extreme. Sure he changed the culture quickly but I wouldn't go as far as "life changing."
The high point was a Sweet 16, not a Final 4 or ACC championship which would be more in line with life changing. For comparison sake, Bruce Pearl is about to take Auburn to the Final 4 in his 5th season.
Fair point, but agree to disagree. First, Auburn was not quite the dumpster fire that VT was and perceived as a better destination.
In consideration to my comments on Buzz I believe we are using different metrics. Buzz proved this program can be one that can be a winner, attract quality recruits and go to the tourney every year. By doing so he has elevated VT as a perceived destination by other coaches. The fact that the level of coaches mentioned as possible replacements being so much better than when after Johnson was hired is proof of that. In my estimation, that is already life changing for VT because it put us on a new echelon for coaching possibilities that hopefully will continue a winning tradition. So not making the Final Four or winning an ACC Championship is not the focus to me. Assuming Buzz is leaving now.
...is that a fact though? Looking at the lists compiled for both years, they share Gregg Marshall, VCU's head coach, Marquette's head coach, and varying degrees of mid major coaches (up and comers or longer tenured with some success). The biggest difference is probably Mick Cronin instead of Anthony Grant, and yet plenty of posters have indicated they have no interest in him. We'll see what names end up being rumored in the likely event that we find ourselves in a coaching search, but I'm not convinced the possible replacements are radically different so far.
Unless I am not remembering correctly the difference is that those coaches were viewed as "dream" candidates whereas this time around they are viewed as suitable replacements. Is that different to how you remember?
Honestly I think you're fixated on a narrative pushed by the media which was a more extreme perspective than reality. Those coaches were "dream candidates" because nobody thought VT was going to prioritize men's basketball or make the type of serious offer necessary to hire them. At the time VT had the lowest paid head coach in the ACC by a wide margin, and then Whit paid Buzz 3x what we were paying James Johnson and gave him essentially any contract conditions he wanted. Buzz didn't just sign with VT because he lost his marbles- Whit made him an offer that was too hard to refuse.
If Whit does that again, we will once again have a chance at prying away another upper tier head coach. If we aren't willing to take those risks, we'll end up with one of the other guys. At the end of the day, the potential of VT men's basketball wasn't fundamentally altered by the on-court success of the Buzz Williams tenure, but rather by Whit Babcock and VT making a financial commitment to the program.
Well, do you have a narrative from another source? I think we're all working with what information we have and the word's "dream candidates" and "stunningly leaves Marquette for Virginia Tech" indeed may have come from the media, but then again it's their job to report the news. And for clarity sake it wasn't just the media, it was the fans as well including those on this very site. That was the perception, they were dream candidates.
I think you're trying to separate what I am saying about Buzz to infer that I am detracting from Whit's genius and hard work. I'm not.
Buzz happened because Whit made the deal happen. That was a significant milestone for the program. What happened after the hire to prove that Whit and Buzz made the right choice and VT can be a every year tourney team is on Buzz. One does not detract from the other, neither do they lessen the importance of the other.
But Whit had to pony up the cash and as you say concede "any contract conditions he wanted." I think you would agree that's atypical. Whit had to do that to get the "dream" candidate that no one was even talking about. Do you think Whit will give those same contract concessions to the next guy? He might have to. Personally I doubt he will, and that will be because Buzz proved what we all believed to be true and Whit bet the farm on. VT IS a destination position that can be a winning program.
True, but Bruce Pearl cheated before and looks to have possibly cheated again to get his team to this point. If they win, there will be a lingering question of if the championship gets vacated in the near future
Do you have a source for him cheating at Auburn? I hadn't heard this yet.
Never mind. Info is out there. I just hadn't done any research.
The fact that Buzz was able to have success in five years says that it was doable. Just like it was doable when Seth Greenberg was at the helm.
VT was already poised for basketball success. Buzz brought along some recruits from Marquette, and did some excellent recruiting and coaching. VT had the fan base, the ACC membership, the funds, the AD, and the university support. It's a winning combination. Buzz was able to sell it because it is a sellable proposition.
While nobody should be taking anything away from Buzz, they also shouldn't be pretending that VT didn't have a basketball program before he arrived. He saw an opportunity, and seized it. If he wants to be a program changer at VT, he needs to stick around longer.
I'm willing to bet that even if Buzz leaves, his replacement will also be able to get VT to the NCAA tournament. But it won't be JUST because Buzz was here. We had a taste of success, and maybe have a little more name recognition in basketball. Buzz was proof of concept. Maybe the Sweet Sixteen is a little easier next time, but there is a lot of work between now and then, whether or not Buzz stays.
If Buzz leaves now, however, the next coach will be the one charged with building the dynasty. If Buzz sticks round, he can be that guy.
Nope.
Seth proved VT was a bubble team. Buzz proved VT is a tourney team.
Buzz > Seth
anything else is logically false.
You keep saying this like it means something profound. Who's pretending? yeah we had a team. It went from being on the bubble to being the bottom of the barrel in no time flat.
Buzz changed VT for the better. End of story. Facts and history proves it to be true.
I'll accept that yours is the popular opinion here. With the fresh memory of the two-day-old Sweet Sixteen appearance. With respect to "profoundness" what are you saying? That VT is now a presence in ACC or NCAA basketball?
Getting to the Sweet Sixteen and then leaving the next year doesn't forever change VT basketball. There's a profound difference between potential and it's realization.
You want proof? VT has been there before.
Buzz maintains his brand, and if he goes to aTm, he takes it with him. VT is much the same entity as before, and depends entirely on their next coach for recruiting and success.
I enjoyed the Buzz ride. But I'd like it a lot better if he actually stayed and gave it some consistency. That's how you really measure sports performance. Winning and consistency. I'm glad he came and had some success, but I'm far from drawing the conclusion that he made a lasting change. That will be up to next year's coach, whether it be Buzz or someone else.
If there's an impact, maybe it's an easier sell to VT donors to invest more in VT basketball. Maybe it's easier for Whit to sell the next coach.
Regardless of what happens, this isn't the "End of Story" for VT basketball It's just one data point.
as was mentioned below. over 4 decades ago. not germane to conversation about Buzz.
No. VT was not viewed as a desirable destination before Buzz came to VT. That is precisely why it shocked the ncaa world when he took the job. It is now desirable because Buzz proved VT is and always was. That's how he changed the program.
Buzz doesn't have to be Frank Beamer to change VT, no coach does. And change isn't measured only in time. That's just how you personally are arbitrarily measuring it. And Buzz changing the program is not defined by the success of the next coach. That is on Whit to make the right selection and that new coach to succeed.
But Whit's ability to shortlist a higher talent pool this time around and the potential ease of the next coach to slipstream behind Buzz's success to his own, is precisely how Buzz changed VT. Seth didn't do that. No one has done that for VT basketball in the modern era.
has anyone actually said this is the "End of Story" for VT or is that just you inferring that onto others? I am confident 100% of the people know that VT basketball is not closing shop if Buzz leaves, and that there will be a new coach appointed.
People were surprised about Buzz's move because Buzz left Marquette, an NCAA tournament regular, for VT who had taken a step backwards under James Johnson, and he took a paycut to do it.
I'm saying that Buzz did his homework, and recognized the opportunity. He turned out to be right. It was a good combination of Buzz and the opportunity VT had.
Here's the key question: "Does VT have a significantly different list of potential coaches than it had when Buzz came to VT?"
VT's continued success is going to depend completely on the next coach. But I'm going to give a little credit to Whit as well. He got Buzz to VT, and I have no doubt he'll get another good coach. I don't think you can set the bar by Jim Weaver recruiting James Johnson after a "national search" in the middle of summer. Even if a Sweet Sixteen appearance helps with the overall perception of the program, it's a little simplistic to give Buzz the credit for recruiting the next coach. Unless, of course, he chooses to stay at VT and actually build the program into a powerhouse.
the fact that Buzz Williams was such a surprise hire proves this point already. he wouldn't have been a surprise if our expectations for the next coach were as high as they are now.
No again. A Sweet 16 appearance is thus far program defining. Again history. It doesn't just help the overall perception. That is what's simplistic.
And no yet again. You measuring in time is arbitrary to only your opinion. He doesn't need to stay at VT to build a powerhouse to get credit for making it easier to recruit the next coach. If we are seriously mentioning Gregg Marshal and others of that caliber then he already has done this. Here check out the post from Johnson getting fired:
http://www.thekeyplay.com/content/2014/march/17/james-johnsons-firing-st...
Credit to perplexster for calling Buzz.
Nobody in that conversation was expecting Buzz or someone at his level. We were thinking a foundation building coach. something solid that could lead to a Buzz. It's simplistic to not take history into consideration for context.
Buzz has made VT better. Facts are facts.
Buzz hasn't even announced he's leaving the program.
So it's a bit premature to give him credit for recruiting the next coach, just as it's premature to give him credit for future success.
never said he announced. premature to assume i did that.
not premature to give credit because those coaches being mentioned as possibilities already proven to be higher caliber than previous search. again, facts.
never gave him credit for future success, my post above:
What I'm saying is that you can hardly give credit to buzz for forever changing the program, when we've yet to determine if there is any permanent change.
And it seems odd to give Buzz credit for elevating the program's status with a potential future coach based on internet suggestions of possible replacements.
The reality is probably a little more complex than that.
You keep saying this.
Let me restate what I have already said several times. Buzz does not have to be the determination of success in the future to cause permanent change. That again is you arbitrarily using a time measuring stick. Whit and the next coach will determine that success.
Yes, all internet rumors, but it's also is about perception. Previously the perception was that VT was not a destination program. Sports media called Buzz choosing VT as "stunning". I remember that article from SI. Now after Buzz it's not "stunning" it's what is expected. Not just by internet rumor, but by fans, the Athletic Department, donors and the media. I don't think there is a single person that expects VT to hire the level of candidate that we were expecting to hire after Johnson. That already proves things have changed, internet rumors or not.
That is already a huge change. And if Whit sticks the landing on his second hire, provided Buzz is leaving, and gets another high caliber coach then Buzz (and Whit) will have fundamentally altered the program's destiny. It will be up to his successor, however, to push that limit further.
Now you're coming around to my perspective.
That's odd, since some of the same names are being mentioned.
Who else would be talking about our next coach before he's even announced he's leaving? From my perspective, it's ALL rumor at the moment.
This is my point. But I'd give Whit a LOT more credit than Buzz for VT's next hire. While the program having been to the Sweet Sixteen is definitely a plus and will help sell VT basketball, I think you're overstating the long-term Buzz effect. Buzz doesn't get credit for the next coaching hire unless that hire is Buzz.
lol. sure, because I wasn't saying the next coach would determine their own success before. gotta read more carefully man.
fair enough. maybe I am not remembering it correctly. show it to me.
you mean, that until Buzz makes his statement it's all speculation and rumor? yeah, never said it wasn't.
You keep missing the point. Buzz elevated the program. That's real now. Doesn't matter if there are rumors are not. The change is apparent already. VT is a better program than when Johnson left, better than when Seth left, better than it has been in decades. There is nothing debatable about that and it's due to Buzz.
Never said any of this. Please... read more carefully.
Buzz surely recruited some great players, took them to the Sweet Sixteen, and made VT basketball enjoyable again. It was a hell of a ride, and as Virginia Tech fans we all enjoyed it.
The elephant in the room is whether the effects will be lasting if Buzz leaves. You say the program is permanently changed, no matter what. I'm saying that it depends on what happens next.
The difference is in who gets the credit. I give Buzz credit for this Sweet Sixteen, and all that success he had when he was here. Whit gets credit for recruiting Buzz. Whit also gets credit for the next coach. And the next coach gets credits for his wins, and his success.
Is VT on the college basketball map because of Buzz? No. Your just wrong about that. He didn't get VT into the ACC. He didn't build Cassell Coliseum. He didn't hire Whit. It's the other way around. So while he had unparalleled success at VT, and took us to new heights, we can't pretend he built the program, because he didn't. It's easy to forget all those other contributions because our team was in the Sweet Sixteen on Friday night.
And while VT got some good PR for being in the Sweet Sixteen, if Buzz leaves right now, who gets credit for that appearance? Buzz or VT? Let's just say that VT either needs to retain Buzz or hire someone else who can recruit, because a good bit of that good will is with Buzz. Buzz put that special group of players together.
We certainly got some good PR from our Sweet Sixteen appearance, but the reason we'll be able to attract a good coach is because we are in the ACC, have good facilities, have a great AD, and have money to pay them. We have a great sportscar, but we'll be needing someone to drive it. And we KNOW Buzz knows how to drive it. Which is why I'd love for Whit to pull a rabbit out of the hat and retain Buzz.
Honestly, and not trying to pick a larger fight, but I seriously question whether you read things before you reply.
No, that is your arbitrary elephant.
No, I say it is already changed because it is. Change doesn't require future success to prove it.
Have been saying this the whole time. As I have reminded and rewrote to you several times now.
Never once said this. You're just wrong about that.
Correct. That's called change. not in the future, now. The point I have explained over and over that you keep ignoring.
Never once said this. You're just wrong about that. He did, however, rebuild the program.
As I have said several times. Yes, most of us here knew, or believed, this to be true. It was NOT the perception outside of VT fandom however. IF you seriously feel I am wrong and the general perception outside of those that love VT was that it was a destination opportunity with a tourney ready program than feel free to prove that to me with articles stating the contrary and not just by you saying your opinion.
Agreed..... finally
And we could have agreed sooner, if you'd read my first post. Or any of them.
I believe all of my posts have been consistent.
agree to disagree on that one ;)
All of my posts are still there.
ugh.... tried to end on a positive note.
I only agreed that I would prefer Buzz stay, bud. nothing else. Don't get ahead of yourself.
It may indeed ring true, but the only facts so far are that internet posters have a higher opinion of a VT basketball coaching vacancy than prior to Buzz. Buzz also took a senior laden team exactly one game farther in the tourney than Greenberg. Now, my eye test says the gap in coaching skill between Greenberg and Buzz is quite wide. However, the groundbreaking achievements are being overplayed.
If you think we only took "a step backwards" under Johnson then you don't have a clear handle on the program. We took 5 steps back and stepped in dog shit barefoot under Johnson/Weaver.
I think it's fair to say Buzz is leaving the program in considerably better shape (assuming he is leaving) than when he arrived. He did something at VT, a school NOT known for basketball, to the sweet 16 in five years. If anyone had said that we'd be ranked in the top 20 and a sweet 16 team with a legitimate chance to play in the elite 8 and above in 2013 everyone would laugh. That's the difference Buzz has made.
My point was that the state of the program under Johnson was artificially low. In my opinion, Weaver torpedoed the program. VT had been in and out of the top 25 during the Greenberg years, and made the second round of the NCAA tournament.
Making the Sweet 16 can only be a good thing, but the real long term effect is TBD, and will depend greatly on the next coach.
We were ranked in exactly 6 AP Top 25 polls during his 9 years in Blacksburg. 4 between January and February 2007 during the leadup to his only NCAAT appearance, and the first two polls released in the 2010-11 season, fresh off of a 10-6 season within the ACC and yet another trip to the NIT quarterfinals, before starting the season 4-4 and then recovering just in time for another NIT bid.
Buzz Williams just had us ranked in the top 25 in every poll this past season, something that's only happened to us once before in 1995-96, and led us to an unprecedented 3rd straight NCAAT appearance.
Don't misunderstand what I'm saying. Buzz did a GREAT job. This team was a lot better than the team Greenberg assembled.
My point, though, was that VT prior to Buzz had a team that was capable of getting to the NCAA tournament. Second round, even. There were a couple of other years where they were a bubble team.
So while Buzz's team was significantly better, how far has VT come as a program? I'd say we've made some progress, but if Buzz chooses to leave now, the future success is going to depend a lot more on the next coach. Continued success is possible, but an open question. We're still at the stage where Buzz is critical to the success of our program.
VT had a program capable of making the NCAA tournament once per decade. I think you are confusing what is possible versus what is likely (NCAA appearances under Buzz).
To be fair Greenbergs teams got shafted several times or that number would be higher. Point is other than Weaver/Johnson annihilating the program VT had been competitive for a while in the ACC, not great but competitive.
Let's make no mistake here, Greenberg annihilated the program on his way out. JJ just got stuck with the bill.
If I've said it once I've said it a thousand times: Fuck Seth Greenberg
What? Montrezl Harrell was committed to play for VT under Greenberg, but he reopened his commitment after his firing.
Dorian Finney-Smith announced his transfer after Greenberg's firing, but always maintained his leaving had nothing to do with Greenberg's exit. So unless that's what you're referring to, I'm not sure what else you mean.
Is Greenberg not accountable for the events leading to his firing?
Remind me. Why'd he get fired?
Essentially insubordination and being a dick.
That's a contributing factor, sure. But there are plenty of insufferable coaches in the NCAA, though the ones who keep their jobs remain there because they have success.
Greenberg didn't bring enough success to justify his behind the scenes behavior.
Thanks. Didn't know that.
Guess Cronin probably has a short shelf life then, unless Whit has thicker skin than Weaver. At least assuming his reputation as Mick the Dick is accurate.
ok, it was insubordination for not showing up to a Hokie Club meeting when he was on the road recruiting for the betterment of the team. He literally found out he was fired via an ESPN alert when he was in the home of a recruit he was trying to sign.
And lets be real here, its not like he suddenly became a dick overnight. He was an ass for a long time, but he won games and made VT somewhat relevant. If we wanted to fire him, do it right after the season, and not on April f'ing 24th long after the coaching carousel had ended.
No, he was really fired because tensions behind the scenes between Greenberg and Weaver got to the point where all the assistant coaches started bailing to other schools once rumors circled that the 2012-13 season was essentially a 'lame-duck' one for Seth and the decision had already been made to let him go. Once James Johnson left to take the same assistant position at Clemson, they were just looking for one more reason. Skipping out on the donor meeting was the final straw and they immediately canned him, and offered JJ the position, partly to keep the recruiting class intact. And we all saw how that played out.
I've always told people the way Greenberg was fired shows you why he was fired. From Weaver's perspective. I don't necessarily agree with the way Weaver handled it, but it's obvious that Weaver didn't respect Greenberg just by the way he handled it.
I don't disagree with firing him, but to do it impulsively, in the middle of the summer, with no plan for the next coach was definitely the wrong way to handle it.
It took heroics on the part of Whit, in hiring Buzz, to get us back on track.
Unless I have first hand knowledge to change my mind, I will always assume the following two things:
1. When a coach kicks a talented player off the team, the player has done 3x more than what is reported.
2. When an AD fires a coach at a bad time, the coach has done 3x more than what is reported.
Perhaps, but I can't think of anything Seth could have done to justify putting our program in purgatory for three years.
That was a messed up move. Would have been better to have an interim head coach if that were the case.
There was some incompetent handling of the situation there.
Maybe just maybe it involved money changing hands
There's more to a basketball program than good recruits. Greenberg was running off assistants left and right that last year or so. Johnson even left for a lateral move to Clemson. Greenberg was still recruiting decent players, but the really talented ones weren't necessarily sticking around (e.g. DFS) .
Recruiting aka ($$$$)
I don't know if many would disagree that Greenberg had run his course and the program was on the decline but I have a hard time saying Greenberg annihilated the program. Weaver could have fired Greenberg at the end of the season and performed a legitimate coaching search, but instead he took a tenuous situation and decided to smother it in toxic waste.
Weaver then told reporters he was doing a "national search", after which he hired the former Greenberg assistant who wasn't ready to be a head coach in the ACC at that time.
I still think you have to blame Weaver, who clearly didn't have a short list of candidates lined up. Even if Greenberg was an insufferable asshole, we should have retained him through the next year and developed a real list of candidates instead of firing him while he was out of town.
Say what you want about Greenberg, but Weaver is the one who royally screwed us there. We'd have done much better to have planned that one out.
And it wasn't just in basketball where Weaver screwed us. His last few years had been a series of 'down the hall' hires that effectively allowed our entire athletic department to stagnate. Yeah, we had success in other sports like soccer, softball, baseball, and women's basketball, but we never capitalized on it and pushed for more. And when it came time to replace those outgoing coaches (not softball, as that just happened, but we never capitalized on the success of Tincher like we should have), we effectively pressed the reset button on the entire program.
Happened so often that its a really damn good thing that Weaver wasn't in charge when Frank retired.
Right, Seth told his assistants that he was going to get the SMU job so they better start looking for jobs because he wasn't taking any of them with him. That's why they started bailing, of course he didn't get that job.
He was a total ass, he treated his assistants like dirt (I saw this first hand) and also treated many of us donors poorly as well. I was a recipient of his poor treatment of donors when I was invited to meet and tour the basketball facilities. He was rude and said he didn't have time to meet with a low level donor, he was sure there was a higher level donor he was supposed to see.
He was not a "team" guy and felt he was above most of the requirements that Head coaches normally do.
He was also a complete ass to other athletes. One of my friends was on the track team and when athletes were working out, he would make them get off machines if he wanted to use one.
I guess it depends on your definition of success and doable. This was our first sweet 16 appearance in 4 decades.
Generally speaking VT has not had a basketball program. My memories of VT basketball are doing nothing with Bimbo Coles (thumbs up play by Frankie Allen), win NIT under Foster (I have a VHS of that game somewhere) and little else, a dead zone, half-decent play under Seth (but only 1 NCAA appearance and lots of complaining about selection Sunday), worst ever under JJ, and great times under Buzz.
Buzz brought this program back from the dead. Remember pundits were wondering why the heck he'd leave Marquette for VT. Whit is a great AD and Tech finally seemed poised to make some noise, but you should take off the rose-colored glasses. This is Tech's first sustained basketball success in 30 years. If Buzz leaves, Whit needs to find another gem so we don't end up in the pack with NC St, Clemson, Miami, etc. The Hokies have the building blocks for success-- Buzz has shown that-- but we also need a great coach.
The Sweet 16 span was 52 years, so even worse. Still, good post.
Don't mean to throw fuel on the fire but i am hearing rumblings that Blackshear may be transferring to a team in Florida. Anyone else hearing that?
Rumblings from who? There's no way even KJ knows that yet. The season JUST ended and Buzz hasn't even left yet. KJ doesn't have a transfer destination right now, come on people
I'd rather not say out of respect, but from what I heard today it's an option. Not saying it will happen but something maybe to watch.
I think this is all speculation based on where he is from as anything is "a possibility". To oversimplify this to a everything is done is silly as much of the decision compounds.
Depending upon the finality of Buzz's departure, any implications from that, who VT hires, what players follow etc. could impact all of the "possibilities".
Where are the rumblings from?
Your stomach?
Haha! Maybe. I haven't eaten lunch today. I am not saying it's a for sure thing. Just heard something today that made my ears perk up a little.
Yes UCF or USF. He is from Orlando.
Did not know that! Well interesting....
He is too good for both of those programs. He goes pro before he goes to either program.
I think he's good enough to go pro for sure. I wouldn't blame him if he did.
leg. shouldn't be downvotes for this.
I don't think you can fault the guy for keeping his options open. If he doesn't feel the next coach is a good fit then he is free to transfer in my mind. And the best of success to him.
Downvotes not called for, I'll agree. But your blase attitude about keeping his options open and leaving if he doesn't feel like the new coach is a good fit and best of success to him, though, doesn't play as well with me. If he no longer wants to be a Hokie that's his prerogative and he's earned it, but unless the school, coaches or fans have treated him poorly, and I think not, I'm not going to like him for the choice and while not wishing him ill, I will absolutely not wish him more than farewell.
Are we really doing this?
KJ has done nothing to suggest he's leaving, but it is theoretically possible. There are no "sources" saying he's leaving.
And then you're saying that you will dislike him and not wish him well if he did leave, even though he just carried us through conference play and put up an incredible sweet 16 performance in defeat.
Wow
I still love Kerry, and don't think he's leaving. Addressing speculation speculatively, with an awkward statement about not liking him instead of his decision that I really didn't mean to convey. My bad there. More in another post below, if you care to read it.
Well, it's good to hear you've got your saltiness plan all lined up just in case
/ssssortof
I'm gonna disagree and downvote this post
If anyone is wondering who I downvoted was fish
I didn't expect it to be a popular post, and downvotes aren't a reason to me not to post my feelings. I'll admit that I actually didn't mean to say that I wouldn't like him for his decision, but that I wouldn't like his decision, but I didn't proof my post well enough, so that one's definitely my bad and I'll take it back. Kerry has been one of my favorite players for years and still is. As for not wishing him well, like I said, I would never wish him ill, and the term farewell perhaps means something different for you than its literal meaning, which I plainly said I would wish him. I don't expect him to leave, and would be surprised if he did, unless he went pro. That is a decision I could see supporting him for, but until we know something...anything...I'll continue to simmer over the whole deal just like everyone else, and that includes talking about how I feel about it. Leg for your downvote, too. That's how you felt about it and I respect that.
Leg for helping me understand more about what you said
agree to disagree. Personally I think imposing my will on another person's self-interest for their future and my affection toward them just because I am a fan of a sports team they are playing on is the very definition of "blase". I don't mean that is what you are saying specifically but it is an underlying meaning whenever fans are against players/students transferring, is it not?
I believe strongly that athletes at schools should have an option to transfer if they feel the need to, just as any other student may do so, in order to ensure the best future for themselves. It has nothing to do with sports.
To be honest, I would have thought you out of most here would agree on being able to choose one's own destiny.
Well, I certainly make no attempt to impose my will on anyone, and in a case like this wouldn't even if I could. I have thought about this for a couple of days now and will just make one more attempt to explain where my head is at here. I've been as heartbroken as anyone since Friday, and all the talk about Buzz leaving and the talk about Junior maybe going with him to aTm and even dragging recruits along has me in a defensive posture. I mean circle the wagons, get the kids inside, lock the doors and windows, load the muskets and line them up at the gun ports kind of defensive. The Hokies are who I care about and I want our team to have its best chance at success next year. I don't want a wholesale jumping off the ship going on and I'm starting to fear that, even though it is all conjecture and I know that and cling to hope.
Athletes who want to transfer have many reasons for wanting to do so, and I obviously don't have the power to stop them, or the even the will to do so, but I also can't pretend that I will always like, or even respect their decisions. This is my prerogative. It certainly does have a lot to do with sports if players follow coaches around, and this isn't just any old team I'm a casual fan of. This is MY team and anything that hurts my team hurts me in a "sports" way. My affection toward them, or lack thereof, isn't necessary for their well being so it won't help or hinder them one bit in life, while their actions and decisions can make me happy or ruin my day, so I think my fandom and loyalty to my alma mater mainly affects my life, not theirs. That is certainly not the meaning of "blase". And this is basketball, which to me is far more personal than football, due to increased familiarity with the smaller number of players and increased number of games.
Lastly, if Junior were to follow Buzz, I wouldn't dislike him, deny him a job, pass him by on the road if he were in trouble, or even be able to keep myself from offering to buy him a beer if he showed up at the Southwind the next day, but I also wouldn't care how things went, sports-wise, for him at his new school. Like my momma told me more than once. Why waste your love on somebody who doesn't love you back?
leg for the explanation.
For the record, I don't think either one of us is/was being blase about the situation. Seems just misunderstanding of each other's points. Your momma's a smart cookie, I know because my momma told me the same.
Isn't that the problem with these kinds of communications? If we were sitting around talking, we could modify and clarify on the fly, so to speak, instead of in fits, starts and jerks that never exactly convey tone and all those things that make for understanding. Yeah, momma was a smart cookie, and sounds like your mom, and I hope you still have yours, is indeed, much the same. Thanks, fernley.
I think the downvotes go with the ambiguity and lack of a source. I wouldn't downvote but could see where others might and I would not argue with them.
Apparently my comment about KBJ rubbed some people the wrong way. Let me state, although some may think the source and statement may be ambiguous I have heard comments from a reliable source that conversations have been had about KBJ transferring. I am in no way saying it's a for sure thing but it sounds like it has been brought up, who knows to what extent.
P.S. thanks for not downvoting. And thanks to others for the legs.
I understand. There's a razor's edge between having a source and not having a source if you divulge the information. For the most part, I leg for positive participation. Meaning participation that evokes active AND CIVIL discussion. As long as a "weakly sourced" (put in quotes because protecting sources isn't weak) piece of information isn't labeled as being a provable fact and being of a stronger source, I look at it as a hypothetical that is posed for consideration. Part of what makes the Tech fan base special is that we engage in active and sometimes passionate debate on hypothetical questions and dare I say philosophical questions. It's what makes us who we are. Let's just be better to each other (not directed at you) more often. We'd probably be pretty bored given the alternative.
Leg to you!
Go Hokies!
Go TKP!
I agree wholeheartedly. I appreciate the reply!
Well, I'm no expert, but I'd like to believe the fact that nothing has come out yet can only be good news for VT. I'd like to believe Whit made it interesting enough that Buzz hasn't decided yet.
One can hope, right?
May be wishful thinking, but I'm on board.
VT and Buzz together are a proven winner. I'd support Whit pulling out all the stops to keep him.
Agree, if it was as done a deal as reported, it would have already happened. That and the reported contract amount being not as big as originally stated are good signs.
Probably just waiting for the games to finish. I'm sure Buzz wants to own Monday.
And, just like that...
Yep!! Whitnmade offwr that Buzz liked, so Buzz is working on his new contract and spending time with the fam today/tonight. Announcement tomorrow, Tuesday at latest. No sauces, but you heard it here first!
I think it has more to do with the fact that its Sunday than it does Buzz having second thoughts or any kind of snag in the deal.
Two theories on the delay:
1) Buzz and Whit are working on an extension
2) A&M has no leverage and Buzz is milking it for all it's worth
Either is good for Buzz
....or aTm is gauging interest of Beard?
Possibly, but the reporting is that Buzz is the only candidate and whoever let that slip did a real disservice to A&M.
I mean, Buzz is smart guy and so far A&M's approach has been kind of underwhelming. It has come down to, "We have money. No plan B. Aren't opening up the purse and leaking our supposedly strong position all while firing what appears to be a decent coach who was diagnosed with Parkinson's"
Oh and the cancelled charter flight.
All along I've thought this is a leverage play by Buzz like 2017 an anOSU job.
If it is, pay the man.
We like him. We needs him...
The Precious.
What brought him back from anOSU was not pay for himself.
Pay the
manmen.Yep
"We've got a lot of money, and have been thinking about this for a long time. You're our 1st, 2nd, and 3rd option. But even though you're fresh off a Sweet 16 performance, we're going to underwhelm you with our initial offer."
It's a bit of a head scratcher, really, if these rumors are correct.
There are a lot of $$$ tumors out there. A&M is rumored to be at $3.5m in one rumor and $5.2m in another. VT is rumored to be at $3.5m, $4.0m or $4.5m friending on your rumor of choice.
I imagine the bonus tiers may explain some of this gap.
Also, Beard is rumored to be in play for A&M which has Buzz....waiting. UT not firing Shaka has been been helpful because they would have outbid A&M for Beard.
Which means A&M lied about Buzz being the only guy. Not sure Buzz would like that. That's straight up pillow-talk.
A&M has a lot of money which means they have a lot of donors which means they have a lot of people vying for influence. At this level, there is rarely consensus or one voice.
Beard got to a final four. Hes a Texas alum. That has their attention.
This thread has gone full "Alexa, play Despacito." HMU when something actually breaks.
Hey Google, play Despacito
I have said since the start of this season we needed to offer him a package. To include a pay bump with better incentives for ACC finish, ACC tourney finish, and NCAA tourney depth. Give the man the $$ he wants to pay assistants. Solid plan to get Cassell upgraded ASAP. Then for a kicker a way to be the next AD. This guy has all the tools to not just elevate basketball but all athletics if he is in the right position. He doesn't want to coach forever so give him a path to be positive for all student athletes.
I can get behind everything you said except your last point. I think Buzz is a great guy who is a very positive influence on everyone around him. He COULD be a great AD. But we're a power five institution that doesn't need to be making guesses on that important of a position. Not to mention I can't imagine Whit is that much older than Buzz (I couldn't find Whit's age on a quick google search). Are we assuming Whit leaves in the not too distant future that would create an opening?
I am 100% fully expecting Buzz to go to Texas A&M and I don't mean to pretend to have any sources inside the athletics department. However, my family had dinner tonight with a family that is close to the Williams family through their kids. Long story short, the wife in the family we had dinner with said she would be surprised if he goes because his wife and kids really don't want to leave.
I'm not pretending that this is breaking news. It is widely known that the Williams family like Blacksburg, but it might be relevant and I rarely have relevant information to share.
I fully expected an announcement by today, and it's probably too late in the day now. I don't know a thing, but if this was a "done deal", I really think it would have been announced by this afternoon.
It's a Sunday, and Buzz is religious, he may have wanted to wait until a workday to make everything official.
All I'm saying, is, let's make it possible for them to stay.
We like them, and they're really working out.
As of this moment buzz is still our head coach. Let's act like it! I don't believe he's going anywhere.
A&M would take Beard over Buzz. This may get messy.
Seeing internet discussion about this. Would that mean Buzz just ends up at Texas Tech though?
I don't think Texas Tech has the allure to Buzz that A&M does, but it would definitely be possible.
If being close to "home" is what matters A&M is about a three and half hour drive from his home town. Plus it's pretty close to Houston and Austin. Lubbock is about a six-hour drive from Greenville and isn't close to anything. Once you get to six-hour drives flying becomes a viable option.
Do you even know if he still has family in his hometown?
Is there a #sauce to this or are you just speculating? Genuinely curious, hope that didn't come off as rude.
Just a rumor going around on the internet. Lots of juice to it, it would make sense because I along with everyone else expected Buzz to be in College Station by now.
If it's true, then Whit has to tell Buzz like yesterday to make a decision on if he wants to be here or not. Can't let A&M hold back our potential coaching search.
I am really surprised no one has mentioned this yet. Tomorrow is April 1st, April Fool's Day. If Buzz comes out with ANY statement tomorrow, how in the hell are we to believe it?
Partially sarcastic, btw.
Still no news? Enjoy this video while you wait impatiently
Be nice on April Fool's Day, Buzz tells Texas A&M ..Take that Job and shove IT.. I'm a Hokie !!
But would they believe Buzz?
So from what I have heard floating around the internet's is, aTm offered Buzz last year, but Buzz said not this year, but if the job is open next year he would take it. So aTm kept their coach an extra year and Buzz checked out of recruiting. Now TTU has a great season and aTm wants Chris Beard instead. So now things seem awkward.
I would imagine this not happening last year had as much to do with A&M being in the awkward position of wanting to fire a coach who put them in the Sweet Sixteen as it did with Buzz wanting to see this group of seniors through at Tech.
Here's the news in meme form:
Fantastic work
Heads up, don't take the HTML code provided by imgflip (e.g. <img ... />) and then use the image button. What's provided is all you need. When you do both, an extra /> appears. Verify with the live comment preview.
We have the fourth rated class in the ACC. If that's checking out recruiting then I'd like to see what him focused is.
I think that was more based on volume of recruits we were bringing in though. I think Buzz did a solid job with this class but could have done a little better if he was 100% all in throughout the year.
Maybe that would be Buzz bringing in someone taller than 6'7". ;^)
This is petty, but it kinda feels good
I'm with you on this except the part about "checked out on recruiting" We signed a top 25 class headlined by a top100 PG from Virginia.
And this is why Texas schools are terrible to work for. Big money donors will flip on you at an instant to follow whatever/whoever is hot at the moment.
"This is PURELY internet speculation."
Which then goes on to mention a source. Not sure Dave knows what pure internet speculation means.
I mean, not really. It mentions someone, who sometimes knows things, about Virginia Tech, and now all sudden is getting information about Texas A&M from "big money people". It's a game of phone tag full of wishful thinking.
It's a handful of times I've mentioned it HokieBen2010, but again, consider the source. I'm not going to continue to waste my time moderating these sorts of things.
There are two actual reports out there from reporters who have credible histories. One has said Buzz to A&M is a done deal, the other has said there is no backup plan. Both of those have been consistent with overall reporting all along.
I know everyone hopes there's a change of heart. But please don't pass along every piece of non-substantiative information in a quest for a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Not sure you meant to reply to me there. I'm not HokieBen2010.
Just a response, below his initial response. Don't take it personal...
Sorry, it was. I was refuting the claim that there was a "source" by any traditional media definition of the word.
One problem with this information is that it's even labeled a VT source, not a Texas A&M source. If Texas A&M insider information is to have legs, it needs to come from a Texas A&M insider. We're talking big money, so there can certainly be some negotiation going on.
Another problem, of course, is that even good inside sources can get it wrong or be misdirected.
Yes, but its glorious speculation!
I thought that was implied because it's twitter.
It's a message board. Speculation should be allowed, and optimistic speculation should be required.
Texas Tech's next game isn't until Saturday....if It gets to be say Wednesday or Thursday and we still have no concrete news, I'll start to get my hopes up
Until then, I just hope whatever coach Whit has been in contact with is willing to wait and see...
If this doesn't break today it's going to get real interesting.
Every time I come back to this thread...
Good news for us. Dutch is the only one left standing at the end of it.
As of right now...
1. Buzz Williams is a successful coach who is employed by the sweet 16 making Hokies.
2. NAW is our star sophomore wing who looks great to make First team ACC next year.
3. Landers Nolley is a promising freshman who should make an immediate impact next year after a year of practice and conditioning.
4. Kerry Blackshear will be back, and he looks to really make a jump next year; especially with an offense that flows through him like a tee in the Alaskan Pipeline.
Living in the moment will keep the gray out of your hair, and the joy in your heart.
Welp, my predictions are:
1) Buzz is gone
2) NAW is going to declare for the draft
3) Nolley will never be eligible
4) KBJ is going to grad transfer
Why do you think Nolley will never be eligible? Have you heard this?
Why do you think Blackshear would leave a place he has been for so long? He can be 1st team All ACC and the star of our team?
I agree on 1 and 2.
I think maybe 4 hinges on 1. Buzz and KBJ seem to have a great chemistry, he's made vast improvements in his game under Buzz...he could go play with Buzz if he leaves, or stick around for a new coach that he doesn't know, doesn't whether their styles merge, etc...all depends on if he is more of a Hokie, or a Buzz OKG, I could see him going either way
Well yeah, of course it could go either way. This is all speculation.
1 thru 4 could go either way.
1) Buzz is gone
2) NAW is going to declare for the draft
3) Nolley will never be eligible
4) KBJ is going to grad transfer
Well yeah obviously, I just meant I wouldn't be surprised if KBJ either stayed or grad transferred, as opposed to 1 and 2, where I will be surprised if either of them are in Blacksburg next year. I would also be surprised if #3 came to fruition.
I think NAW is definitely gone, and I do not blame him on bit. It will be awesome to have a Hokie getting real minutes in the NBA.
On the KBJ transferring thing, I think everyone also needs to consider that while he loves Buzz, maybe he also loves his school and his remaining teammates and would stay for that? The people thinking he transfers to be with Buzz just feels very 1-dimensional in thought to me. At this point, NBA scouts have seen him play. If KBJ will make the NBA he will make it regardless of who his coach is next season.
I believe these are Buzz's latest contract details: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2016/07/13/virginia-tech-e....
Hey, it's April now.
Buyout details:
ahh just hanging around for that retention bonus...I think if I were Whit I would have pushed to make the retention bonus come in later in the year, like once we know we have actually retained him (Whit probably did push for this, but we needed Buzz more than he needed us)
That would be complete and utter bullshit if he gets a retention bonus this April and leaves for aTm.
Why? At my previous employer everyone waited until after the annual bonus was received to leave. This is the contract him and Whit agreed to.
Buzz is no different from you or I - He's just trying to have the best career possible. Just because you're emotionally invested in his employer doesn't mean he's undeserving of his previously agreed to compensation.
Apples and oranges.
Your annual bonus is about what you (and the company) did last year.
A retention bonus is about the fact that you've agreed to stay on another year.
It would be highly hypocritical to take a retention bonus and then leave.
The retention bonus is there for last year, not the upcoming year. No hypocrisy, and if that's what the contract says, that's what he's owed. I'd cash that check with no remorse.
The term is that Buzz has to be employed on April 30th.
It's very specific.
If it's not til April 30 then I highly doubt he sees that check. Can't imagine us waiting around that long
Um, unless we are going to fire Buzz, we will be waiting until he decides whether to stay or go.
Given the stakes for everyone involved, that would certainly be an asshole negotiation.
"I want to leave now, but I want the April 30th check early, and I'm willing to hold both you and my new school up to do that."
Talk about a good way to piss off a lot of people.
I don't think many people actually ask for that retention bonus to paid early just so they can leave and collect it, too. Or if they do, it's along the lines of "Hey, about that retention bonus - you wouldn't be willing to give it to me a couple weeks early, would you? Oh, ok. Didn't think so."
Looks like you edited while I was posting.
Agreed that would be an asshat negotiation tactic and I don't think that would be employed. In fact, it much more likely to backfire as the other party (aTM in this case) could pull the offer.
Exactly.
Negotiations have a time value. What's good today may have no value at all tomorrow. That retention bonus is small beans compared to the value of the next Buzz contract over 5 years.
Not only that but as our family found out you can't have negotiated a new job even if you don't leave until after that date. My wife lost her retention bonus because of that.
Ding. Ding. Ding.
Winner.
Yeah the wording on retention bonuses (and actually a lot of other bonuses) sucks. It took me reading through mine about 400 times then running it through my dad who has experience with the stipulations and terminology. It's usually a good idea to have a lawyer review them especially if its for a substantial amount of money.
If you had a retention bonus at your gig, would you wait to get it before leaving/putting in your two weeks?
Honest question because I know I 100% would. If I am leaving, I am trying to get all the money I can, and anybody trying to get into my pockets can pound sand. Sure not a good look, but I don't blame anybody trying to get as much money as possible.
If you're trying to get a retention bonus after you've negotiated employment with another employer, you're the one who should pound sand.
That's why we need lawyers involved in writing contracts, I guess.
If's thats how you feel towards that person, then that's your opinion. If there is no writing in your contract for how long you have to stay after getting the retention bonus, then that's the companies fault, not the employee.
It's nothing personal, I just would do anything (legally) to get as much money as possible, but that's just me.
Meh, if I'm looking at an annual salary increase of $1.5m, I'm not playing games with my former employer over a one time bonus of $100k
Yea I understand your viewpoint, especially comparing 1.5 million to 100k, but let's not act 100k isn't a lot of money to most people, even Buzz.
I agree, you are potentially hurting your image from your previous employee to possibly your new one, but if it's legal, I won't say he shouldn't do it. It's a free market, get your all your money possible. Even if he did such a thing, it's not like aTm is going to pull the offer.
The bonus is paid on April 30th of each year, for anyone worried about him taking the cash today and running.
Contract link
Shit, so you mean he's gonna keep us in limbo til May 1? s/
My only takeaway from looking at that document... Everything about Buzz's signature makes sense. It's a written representation of him.
I studied his signature for a solid minute. I would love to see the evolution of his signature throughout his career. Was it always this, or has it been refined over the years. Kind of reminds of Donald Trump's signature, tall and narrow letters that take up every bit of available space.
For the lazy:
That reminds me of every Bethesda game ever made.
I want to check the signature on his next contract to see if he's added #getBETTER below the signature line.
UPDATE:
Looks like a basketball.
I saw that too
Really appreciate that, great find. The way it read from WaPo was April 1. (Have no idea why the specific dates weren't included.)
FWIW....A&M "sources" "confirmed" Bud Foster was their new HC a few years ago....just to have Bud stay with us.
I think the Aggies might be talking it into existence, instead of existence actually happening...
And the Beat Goes on , and the Beat Goes on.. Somebody is going to make a decision, Whit Or Buzz . But This show will come to a Head here Today or Tomorrow.. Stay or Whit Gets Another..
I am always intrigued by this seemingly random capitalizations, spaces and punctuations. Maybe it's a code? Let's take all capitalizations, and additional punctuations and spaces.
ABG BG. SWOB BT HTT. SWGA.
I was going to come up with something clever that this stands for. Then I realized that I'm not that clever.
All I see is southwest Georgia. Buzz to Georgia Southwestern State University confirmed?
Its a code
ABG clearly stands for BAG
BG - Bowling Green
SWOB - soon will offer Buzz
BT - Blacksburg Transit
HTT - Hail to the
SWGA - Swag
A bagman from Bowling Green is meeting shortly to discuss Buzz's contract draped in cool swag while hailing the Blacksburg Transit.
Joke's on the bagman, BT only stops at approved stops.
Aggies Basketball gig, Buzz Gamble's. Sticks with our Boys, Blackshear transfers home to Texas. Still wins games after.
If you do a Buzz Williams search on Twitter, you will see about 15 posts from really odd media posting the same article with the same image about how Buzz is going to TA&M. The posters don't have a large batch of followers and don't really seem legit. Anyway, thought this was strange, almost like someone was creating a story.
Also, I hate calling them ATM, cause I always think A$$ to Mouth...
Capitalization is critical.
makes the intent a bit clearer.
Leg for the nickname thats gold
Its Russia Again!
This is why is use TAMU. Plus it makes them sound puffy, like they are made of marshmallows.
I think this just became my favorite nickname for aTm.
I call them Texas A&M because years ago they made a thing called a keyboard that makes it quick and easy to type things.
For the ones of us getting on here to get actual info y'all make it rough with all the side conversations. Come on buzz just make a decision.
When you posted side conversations that got me thinking about the best siding for my house. Should I go vinyl, aluminum, or black market old school - try to find some asbestos lying around somewhere. It's illegal, but man it holds paint like nobody's business.
I have cedar siding and I'm going to have to replace it soon. Looks nice though
Cedar siding does look nice, but it's high maintenance for sure. That reminds me of a girl I was trying to get going with back in my junior year of high school. Complete. Fiasco.
Anybody got any crazy ex-girlfriend stories to share?
My house in Giles had asbestos shingles, the one I'm in now does as well. Problem is, homeowner's insurance doesn't like it because it cannot be replaced if damaged, so we had to hassle to find a local agent to insure us here. We'll be covering it with something, but vinyl will probably win the bid. Asbestos does though, as you say, hold paint like nobody's business.
Hell yes!
I painted my first house back in 1991 by myself, asbestos siding of course, and I was going to quit my job and start painting cause that shit was easy. One coat. I used the good Sherwin Williams exterior though.
Then I got to the trim and the windows, and all of a sudden I gained a healthy respect for painters. That shit sucks.
That's definitely why God invented painters.
LOL--article! Title is funny but body seems halfway serious:
Virginia Tech fan starts GoFundMe to keep 'Oil barons' from hiring Buzz Williams at Texas A&M
I don't so much trust GoFundMe since those folks in Pennsylvania turned out to be a scam. (Actually, before that.)
I mean, what stops people from having "administrative costs", like their mortgage?
Reminds me of the Breaking Bad subplot with Walt Jr. raising money for his dad, and Walt using it to launder money.
Have you seen the home sale that people are requesting an essay to win the house and charging an application fee for? Essentially they have a historic home and you apply for the opportunity to buy it and submit an essay. The trick is they have a minimum of essays, essentially paying for the house in total.
Genius but pretty sketch at the same time.
That's how most draws work, whether it's a trip, a car, a new roof, whatever. Sell enough tickets at a nominal price to cover the entire cost and someone gets a fantastic prize for $100 or whatever the ticket cost is. Not sure that's sketchy, but it's a very common practice.
You're thinking about a raffle. At least with that, you have a fair shot.
One with "the best essay" + an decent sized application fee has WAY too much risk of being rigged.
This is pretty slow for a "Done Deal".
It's like watching grass grow at this point. We could probably have grown another coach in a test tube by now.
It is started, Buzz just needs to drag it out a little longer.
Bald, so checks out
Waiting for Buzz to say April fool.
Did anyone post the tweet? Evidently he told the team he's done
.
Not according to mike barber he just tweeted and said there has been no team meeting
Edit: I know people didn't believe you Skutt, but you're verified in my heart. ❤️
Dueling sources time.
Someone's sources suck.
But the other guys source is saying what I want to hear....
Is this some April Fool's Day shit?
This is otviously about the otter matter.
via GIPHY
Lesson of the evening: Never trust unverified accounts that say they have sources. Wait for the verified ones to give the scoop.
In fairness, I embedded a tweet by someone who writes for TKP, not some random dude.
Regardless, neither post that was embedded here has the credibility of the verified accounts from the veteran writers for whatever newspapers. So I'm never going to put stock into that kind of rumor until a more credible reporter confirms it. For all we know, there could be a meeting tomorrow, but i'm just saying that if there was a meeting today, someone "bigger" would have probably reported it
For me, it has nothing to do with verified/unverified Twitter accounts. Any idiot can have a verified Twitter account. Bud Foster's Twitter is unverified. That blue check doesn't mean much anymore.
At the end of the day, we're talking about two conflicting reports. On one side, there have been two amateur reporters who say Buzz informed the team he was leaving. One from Henry Skutt and one from a high school/college basketball blogger in North Carolina. These reports have been refuted by veteran reporters Mike Barber and David Teel.
This doesn't mean either side is right or wrong. We will find out who was right soon enough. But it does put us in a position where we have to choose who to believe, and I'm going with the beat writer from the Times-Dispatch and the VA Sports HOFer.
Unfortunately, at this point I have to trust the more credible reporters, and file the other reports away with the rest of the speculation and rumors we've spent the past several weeks discussing ad nauseam.
Guys a sauce just told me that I'm going to bed. I'm the sauce.
My original source told me that my paper was due next Monday. Three sources today have told me that my paper is due tonight. Always confirm your sources before putting off essays for two weeks.
It must be said in simple language: "This is getting f**kng ridiculous."
That's just your perception, because everybody other than the people who count... Coach, AD, A&M has been blowing smoke around for about a month now over this.
Contract negotiations take time, and honestly, nobody knows when they started. It's possible that A&M and Buzz worked out some sort of gentlemen's agreement last year, or he told them to not speak to him until today. If the latter is the case, it could be a few days before anybody hears anything.
If Buzz is leaving, I'm not going to complain about just under what pretense he left. He did his kids and the fans a solid and didn't say a fucking word about this at all during the postseason.
Everybody else did.
I agree 100% with the first part. Contract negotiations take time. Sometimes a LONG time.
For the "gentlemen's agreement" part, I'm not so sure. Even 10 years ago I think that may be possible. Today there is far too much leaking going on to even approach this. What you get is an amicable stalemate of generally acceptable terms that is replete with plausible deniability. When an opportune event occurs, negotiations will take place swiftly and in plan view. It's like going from playing battleship at noon to playing chess at 12:10. There is just too much for all parties to lose.
That sounds like a "gentlemen's agreement" to me, but I could be doing this all wrong.
The longer this goes on I wonder if this may be VT dragging their feet some too for some more potential candidates to open up for interviews too? I don't know if I would be so quick to give up on Gregg Marshall
KJB sent a criptic tweet last night saying aTm was about to hand us a 2nd loss. Can't imagine that's good news.
Haha that's some kid that changed his name to Kerry Blackshear III. I got confused too when I first saw someone retweet it.
I feel like this mixes people up a lot and is not a good look. I saw KBIII get in a twitter argument with Liberty fans but yeah make sure you're looking @Kjblack15 and not whatever that other guy's handle is.
Good catch. Sorry, I didn't realize it.
That has bothered me since he changed his display name, especially when getting into shit talking other teams/fans. People on twitter don't vet their sources, so I feel like this is a disservice to KJ when people start attaching the name to certain comments.
ESPN is calling it (originally reported by CBS Sports).
Williams to A&M