Reports, more Reports and now a Virginia Tech Confirmation: Buzz Williams to Texas A&M

Half of the news cycle is behind the Hokies, Virginia Tech men's basketball coach set to depart.

[Mark Umansky]

The news labored for a few days, but there is a media consensus Texas A&M is set to announce Buzz Williams as its next basketball coach. Virginia Tech players and brass have been notified. And now the Hokies are left to replace their, arguably, most successful basketball coach.

Virginia Tech confirmed the reports in a release shortly thereafter.

"Coach Williams made a very positive impact on the culture of our basketball program at Virginia Tech," Babcock said via release. "We appreciate all that Buzz and his staff did for our students and our program. We wish Buzz, Corey and their family the very best as they return to their home state of Texas.

"Thanks to our talented student-athletes, Coach Williams and his staff, Virginia Tech is now one of the most attractive jobs in the nation's top basketball conference, the ACC," Babcock continued. "I'm extremely confident that we'll be able to identify and hire a new head coach who can further build on the success our men's basketball program has achieved in recent years. Until we have our new head coach in place, we will have no further comment on our search process."

Williams makes $3 million annually at Virginia Tech while Kennedy made $2.45 million at A&M. The Aggies, who pay Fisher $7.5 million annually, are expected to boost Williams' annual pay to at least $3.5 million.

Multiple sources have told CBS Sports that Texas A&M, with the help of boosters, is prepared to pay Williams more money -- easily north of $3 million annually -- than it's ever paid a basketball coach in its history.

Comments

Bye Felicia!

I like your enthusiasm, but that exclamation mark's gotta go if you want the intended effect. You're coming across as a dad joke.

Just a tip for next time from a dad.

Leonard. Duh.

welp.....there it is

21st century QBs Undefeated vs UVA:
MV7, MV5, LT3, Josh Jackson, Jerod Evans, Michael Brewer, Tyrod Taylor, Sean Glennon, and Grant Noel. That's right, UVA. You couldn't beat Grant Noel.

Coaches come and go and I'm okay with that. What I'm not okay with are the reports saying that this has been in the works all year long. I can only hope that Whit knew this all along and is ready to sign a new coach ASAP.

I have a feeling we'll know who's going to be in charge before the end of the week. There's already tons of smoke, and Whit won't sit on his hands.

I agree with you that Whit has a plan and we'll know soon. But I'm still pissed about Buzz and A&M colluding for a year.

But is it black smoke?

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

And who is it around?

Obviously Chris Clarke

Wouldn't that be white ish smoke?

Warning- Filter lost.

"Look at this... This is just spectacular.... These people are losing their minds"

FREE THE "STICK IT IN" CHANT!!!

Is our next coach the Pope?

Jeff Goodmans kind of a dick...

15 Straight

Nothing he said is untrue though.

Edit: Jeff Goodmans kind of a dick an honest dick...

15 Straight

I dont see Marquette to VT as lateral, I guess big picture, but rating 2014 basketball programs VT would not be as high as Marquette.

Agree. Although I respect his game. He's very well-sourced and blunt about those who he has the goods on. That normally doesn't happen (because of where the information is coming from).

I'll be eyeballing those Texas A&M scores on the ESPN ticker pretty closely for the next few years.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

People. People! Do NOT allow this to take away any energy in rooting against loluva. aTm did their thing, and are now off in the distance. Loluva is here to stay! Do not waste energy that can be put towards them!!!!!

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

I'm perfectly capable of focusing on more than two basketball teams.

Honestly I bear no malice towards Buzz, because were I in his situation I'd want to move home too. I may be a little miffed towards A&M, but I'm honestly curious how Buzz will do there.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

They're oil baron shits anyway. Another reason to hate those guys

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

Best of luck Buzz.

Let's move on.

I hope this not true.

Same. Isn't he caught up in the Louisville mess or some other trouble? Don't bring that shit into our house!

He's part of the Pitino coaching tree, has support Rick Pitino publicly and has direct ties to a very shady HS coach. The SH program is included in the corruption investigation.

That's what I thought. I want no part of him. Even if it's not as bad as it appears, one of my favorite things about VT is we generally have very clean programs.

Yea, not a fan of this one - gotta think Whit has this in the back of his mind and wouldn't want that either at Virginia Tech.

Willard wouldn't be a sexy hire, but I think his resume isn't nearly as bad as people here are making it.

He rebuilt Seton Hall and has taken them to the NCAA tournament the last 4 seasons. Seton Hall has only ever made the NCAA tourney 13 times, and two guys have 10 appearances combined (PJ Carlesimo also had 4 straight appearances, with 6 overall).

He's a good coach and despite the Big East being down this year, it's been an extremely competitive conference during his tenure.

I don't like the potential tie to the corruption scandal.

People need to do a little digging then.

Willard's name was never in the FBI reports. One of his players (Isaiah Whitehead) and an assistant coach (Tiny Morton) who coached said player in high school were the ones implicated. All indications were that Morton was acting on his own.

If people want to call Willard shady because he hired a guy to get a recruit, then boy, college basketball isn't the sport for you.

I wouldn't say he's the only coach doing it because that's far from true there are tons cheating, but to say the assistant coach did it on his own behalf doesn't make any sense to me, what would the assistant gain from paying a player to come to Seton Hall , if you ask me he's goin down the Patino train he's just smarter at covering his tracks

Go for it

I think there is real pressure for an assistant to sign recruits; that is a major way to move up the coaching ladder.

Here's the facts about those tied up in the FBI investigation from Seton Hall. First, the player in question:

https://sports.yahoo.com/exclusive-federal-documents-detail-sweeping-potential-ncaa-violations-involving-high-profile-players-schools-103338484.html

Isaiah Whitehead, at the time a freshman at Seton Hall, received $26,136 according to the documents. The "Pina" document says Whitehead received $37,657 and was "setting up payment plan." Whitehead signed with ASM but later left the agency for Roc Nation.

Now, the assistant coach:

https://www.app.com/story/sports/college/2018/02/25/does-seton-hall-have-tiny-problem-fbis-college-basketball-investigation/371518002/

Morton, who came aboard Kevin Willard's coaching staff as part of a "package deal" with Whitehead, spent the 2014-15 season in South Orange before returning to his roots as the coach at talent-rich Lincoln High School in Brooklyn (Whitehead's alma mater). During his time on campus, Morton was a divisive figure who contributed to the locker-room tension that imploded the team. The question now, though, is why Morton is listed as receiving $9,500 from the agency at the center of the FBI's investigation - Andy Miller's ASM Sports - and more importantly when he may have received such a payment.

As reported by the New York Post, Morton's relationship with Miller dated back years before his time at Seton Hall. But if he accepted such payment while on the university's payroll it would be an infraction of NCAA rules - unless Morton could prove it was for prior services rendered.

Moreover, if there is evidence that Morton connected Whitehead with ASM while the two were at Seton Hall together, that's a major infraction of NCAA rules.

So, in summary - In Whitehead's case, the payment he allegedly took had nothing to do with recruiting him to Seton Hall, since he was already a freshman when payments occurred. It had more to do with getting in the good graces of a potential pro to hopefully sign him once he left school. And to answer your question, why would the assistant take a payment? Simple. It's to steer a player that he had influence over towards the agent in question.

When you look at the facts of Seton Hall's involvement in this case, there's nothing at all that ties Willard to this investigation. At worst, Willard hired a character that was known to be somewhat shady in order to land a talented recruit. But as far as paying players? There's no evidence that Willard even had knowledge of the payments.

People keep bringing up the FBI investigation as a reason not to hire Willard, and it shows they haven't researched the case.

He's the anti- Seth Greenberg.. Willard gets his bubble teams INTO the dance by not losing to garbage conference teams down the stretch. I'll take it. The NCAA tourney IS college basketball, and in the ACC a competent team gets you in most years. Greenberg couldn't figure this out.

You hope Whit has been unprepared for this coaching change? ;^)

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

We've literally been talking about this on here for weeks so this shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

15 Straight

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Edit: I'm hoping he literally is A primary target, not The primary option.

Is it basketball season yet?

Yes.

I think we have the potential to get a decent hire - we're positioned to compete in the top half of the ACC, we have a lot of support from fans, students, good recruiting class coming in (as long as it doesn't change) - and just came off of our 3rd straight big dance appearance, and a wonderful AD to work for.

You gotta think we're one of the more attractive options out there for coaches who may be available.

While Rothstein is legit, his number one source for VT was well, Buzz himself. I'm sure Willard is being considered, but I'm not sure Rothstein is as in the know as he was when Buzz was here.

Still think Marshall and Wojo are the top two targets, with likely Cronin and Willard coming after them.

In Sam Rogers we trust.

I would be highly disappointed if we settle for Willard because that's exactly what we would be doing, I don't see this at all guys. Deep breathes Hokies

Go for it

I can't believe it. We must have arrived as a basketball school.

We've actually come to the point where people are saying VT basketball would be "settling" for a guy who has made FOUR STRAIGHT NCAA tournaments.

I'd consider it settling because of the baggage that he brings due to the corruption scandal that SH is implicated in. If it weren't for that (and his unwavering support of Pitino in that scandal), I wouldn't consider it settling.

From what I've heard if we end up with Willard that is definitely settling, not saying he couldn't be a good coach or isn't a good coach, but anytime a coach is linked to a cheating scandal how are we to know how good he really is?

Go for it

If we're going to settle, I'd rather go after a guy like Wes Miller at UNCG. D1 playing experience, consistent success, and an incredibly high ceiling. Might as well get a young guy that's gonna bring a ton of energy and has potential to be great than settle for Willard.

15 Straight

Five star get after it 100 percent Juice Key-Playing. MAN

Good luck, Buzz. Thanks for the memories. It sucks that everyone doesn't look at VT the way I do, but I understand the reality of the situation. Can't blame someone for going "Home".

Seriously though, if rumors are true that this has been in the works for months or more, perhaps it's best for everyone to move on. Thanks for the run.

Edit: removed a bunch of pointless anecdotal and ambiguous hints that serve no purpose.

Who's next?

Literally nothing has changed from the initial rumors, the fact that we've chosen to stew in the each new drip of news for a week doesn't change the facts. This was never going to be his forever job. Flipping out because of one of many rumors, which you immediately say you can't confirm, is a bad look. Wish him luck, and let's move on.

Agreed. I guess people don't believe in others acting professionally while doing their job, even if they are potentially courting another.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Well I guess you assume that the items I choose not to share fall into the "doing your job professionally" category. If what I hear is true, you'd be wrong in that assumption.

But you are right. My version of "Bye, Felicia" is worded too strongly and I'll edit. Have a leg.

I've heard stuff too. Heck, there's a TKP member and regular poster that can tell you stories. You just have to pay attention to figure out who it is.

Buzz is a personality. A card. A character. People like that do things that other perceive as unprofessional, annoying, being a pill, etc.

It is what it is. Gotta accept it or take offense and not like the guy. Whatever.

well now you have me interested....

He literally said nothing about the job this whole time, and the leaks were most likely coming from A&M. Buzz had no option in all of this.

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

This has been in the works for about a year. 2 Buzz staffers went before him to start recruiting and figure out the "lay of the land".
It just feels dirty. I appreciate what he did for VT but if he has been setting this up for HIMSELF, then every video, post game interview.....etc has been a prop along the way.

HokieObsession

Kinda doubt it. He was only at Marquette for 6 years, he was with us for 5.

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

Don't take it so personally. I spent (over) a year planning and networking to make a major career move (MBA) while still working at my previous job. It doesn't mean that I don't care about the company/people I used to work with and it didn't mean that I was focused only on MYSELF; I felt it was time to leave, but I had to make sure I was making the right career move. Yea, I took on projects that made me more attractive to B-schools, but it wasn't like I did it to the company's detriment (quite the opposite in fact).

Same thing with Buzz; he didn't hurt our program, he brought it to new heights, then he did what's best for him. In the end, it was pretty good for us. I'm sad it's over, but I'm happy it happened, and I have no ill-will against Buzz.

Twitter me

WADR, the company you left didn't rely on you personally to staff it from top to bottom. The company you left didn't solicit 7 figure donations to keep you around. The company you left doesn't turn over it's entire staff every 4 years. The company you left likely didn't have a top 5 competitor 180 miles up the road and 2 all time top competitors 200 miles south of it. When you left, your company had to replace a middle or upper manager. Those are not as rare as elite basketball coaches in a cut throat, dirty game. And I say that WADR, seriously.

You seriously think executives in charge of major corporations don't plan their exit and next job years in advance?

Come on people. This happens every damn day in the real world. There is zero reason to be upset with this.

Bar1990 was an executive in charge of a major corporation, that left to pursue an MBA?

if this is your question then you're not understanding his post correctly

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

From a business perspective I can't agree more. This, however, is a discussion that crosses with college athletics, and there is a *TON* of emotion that comes with it. I think there is room for most to accept that this was a business decision AND be bitter about the move.

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

I get what your saying; Buzz's job is 'higher stakes' than mine was, and I was far more replaceable in my previous role than Buzz at VT. I think my analogy holds true regardless. Buzz gave it his all before leaving, and improved the program. He (presumably) communicated his intentions to Whit, and it seems like Whit got a head start on finding a new coach.

I just don't understand what more the fanbase wants out of him? Would fans be happier if there weren't any leaks? Maybe, but my understanding is that's an issue with aTm. Do fans want Buzz to spend more time here? Maybe, but I don't think it's going to be any easier if he leaves after 6, 7, 8 years instead of 5. Did fans want Buzz to announce his new job before the tournament? I don't know if that would've made it any easier.

Buzz gave us everything. It was a mutually beneficial relationship. It has come to an end. We're both in a better spot because of it.

Twitter me

FWIW, Issac Chew was assistant to Billy Kennedy at Murray State for several years, so it's not inconceivable he'd want to work for him again at A&M, maybe thinking he would be the heir apparent when Kennedy retired.

Reynolds got a promotion to become a coach again after being Buzz's Director of Ops.

Been going on for a year now?

For a guy that stressed Family and 'Do the Right Thing', hearing this has been going on for at least one recruiting class is.... Troubling.

I'm glad its over. In the end, Buzz used us and spit us out the second he could leverage us for something better.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

I couldn't agree more. This doesn't really fit with his brand.

I mean, this basically means he signed a class knowing he was actively courting Texas A&M with intention to move there. Then he went through an entire season of recruiting another class knowing he was negotiating with Texas A&M. And this was while we were in the middle of a season with a Top 15 program that had aspirations for actual greatness. And he was already one foot out the door negotiating with another school about the next season.

This is so against everything he sells publicly that... man, that's bothersome.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Buzz Williams just gave VT a season for the ages despite the program taking multiple kicks to the balls. I think he was all in here this past season.

What do we expect people to do when there is a potential career move on the horizon?

What other way could Buzz have handled this situation? Did you want him to not recruit at all? Should he not have talked/negotiated with aTm? Where would that have left him and his career? The guy is getting a bump in pay and gets to move home. Good for him!

Is it basketball season yet?

I can't believe that Buzz was looking at this job for an entire season. Did the guy coaching A&M know back in October that he was going to get shit canned at the end of this season?
I don't think it works that way.

JP

Can't get behind this at all. Hard for me to think his personality is some WWE performance. I think he's a genuine guy and really cares about the kids he coaches. He's leaving to be closer to family and I think he's handled this situation about as professionally as possible.

If the rumors are true and aTm wanted him last year, wouldn't it back up the idea that he didn't want to bail on his seniors because of how highly he holds these connections?

I have never liked him, and this just makes me kind of hate him. It was cool to see VT be good at basketball, but Buzz gave me a queezy feeling the whole time.

I am honestly glad he is gone. Especially after seeing the way this went down.

This.
When you just hear a quote once on TV it seems off the cuff and geniune. When you hear the same thing in booster events, radio & tv is seems prepared and contrived.

Many people act like Buzz cares about his players more than a vast majority of coaches. Almost every coach wants to have a positive impact on their player's lives as a basketball player and as a person. I agree that some are better than others, but many players are devoted to their college coach in a father figure manner.

And a lot people ignore the fact that Buzz deliberately ran off some of his players to free up scholarships

Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies

And kicked off one player who wouldn't apologize for an altercation with a teammate.

I have figured that the player must have felt justified in his actions if he was willing to be kicked off the team instead of apologizing.

Or maybe not being willing to apologize was part of his character and that type of character was not what Buzz wanted on the team.

If you don't think you wrong, the easy way out it is a glib apology.
It takes strong moral fiber to be kicked off the team to preserve one's character.

Depends on the situation. It could be cockiness, selfishness or lack of respect, too. Also depends on how it was handled and what was said.

Buzz always preached team first and play for each other. Be unwilling to apologize probably indicated to Buzz that the player wasn't "team first."

This is a comical take. Where were you badmouthing Buzz the past five years?

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Good to see that was a comical take as well

But touche, there you were a year ago

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

I know this was not directed at me but I'll answer too.

  • Buzz is a very good coach, it is really hard to win in the ACC. The other coaches and players are great..
  • Buzz's persona is different and somewhat captivating when it is novel. The more you are around it, you start thinking it is a schtick.
  • I haven't called for Buzz to leave because the results have been good but that does not mean I thought he was sustainable (at any location).
  • Also, why voice displeasure instead of enjoying the fun of the basketball season.

this is 100% hyperbole until proven true.

As everyone should know, coaches get contacted ALL THE TIME. We don't know if Buzz was negotiating for a year, or if A&M have been after him for a year. Could be Buzz just said, 'talk to me later in the season." Could be he said, "I got at least 1 more year in me at VT so lets talk after the year. " As an employee for any company understanding your options is not only personally smart but should be expected by your current employer.

Even he he was discussing with them, he got the job he was hired to do done. He shaped and taught young minds as people and athletes to a level that I think sets a new gold standard at VT. And affect real change to the program that not only course corrected but sent us to a high stratosphere than we have been in decades. Decades.

In the end, Buzz used us and spit us out the second he could leverage us for something better.

Ridiculous. It's his life and career. He gets to decide his own destiny. In the end he left VT a better place than when he found it. That should be everyone's goal when they accept a job no matter how long they are in it. Not just coaches, everyone.

No, but see, this affects ME way more than it affects him and his family, so it's totally reasonable for ME to freak out about it, and cast poorly sourced aspersions!

But this seems like the right take. "In the works" or "talking" could mean any number of things (see above). No one has said anything substantive on the record. Until I hear that he was sitting in his house, cackling about how he was gonna fuck VT over (in the middle of our best season ever), it seems like he did a lot for us, we did a lot for him, and now we're moving in different directions. That's how employment works. God speed Buzz, let's go Hokies.

Can't find the article but prior to coming to VT there was a story talking about his decision to come to VT. Because the question was why would he come to a bad bbal program from a good one. He had done some plotting on the conference, strength of the football program, and recruiting area. I remember thinking he's calculated. And probably playing to a bigger stage. Coupled with his website, social media presence, #get better, and public persona it was pretty clear he's shooting for the stars. In a lot of ways we were lucky yo have him. I don't think he gave 2 shits about VT as a school but he built a good program. And of course he's leaving it a bit gutted. But in the end he provided a stepping stone for us (look at our targrt list) and in some ways a better one then he got. ATM isn't some monster bball school. Maybe that makes it hurt more or maybe he is looking to go home. I think Buzz probably does a lot of what he does for personal advancement but things like Buzz's Bunch and the impact on his player are awesome regardless. Net net I think he used us and we used him. In fact I'd argue we came out on top in the long run.

sol-a-rex

His social media was always bullshit cliche's and motivational quotes. Good basketball coach, glad we had him, but that other bullshit is just that- bullshit. He is a gym rat that wants to win, and needs players and AAU contacts to do so. He's no different than most big time coaches in that regard. The family, culture wall, quote t shirts are all bullshit.

I'm siding with dcwilson on this one, those quotes always felt like a bunch of bullshit

Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies

This sounds like sour grapes to me. I never remember hearing anyone say the quote shirts were "bullshit", in fact I remember people saying they were pretty cool and wanted to have one.

"It's a miracle in Blacksburg, TYROD DID IT MIKEY, TYROD DID IT!"

Not to be siding with Buzz's departure, but all the speculations get us no where. Like it or not, we have to move on....as sad as this is.

5 years ago we were in the bottom of the ACC

Now we are a seriously relevant basketball program.

Thank you Buzz for putting Blacksburg on the path towards a basketball town.

..was that so hard?

It's not hard if this were normal circumstances. The fact that Buzz has been working on this for a year or is shady as fuck and people have a right to be pissed.

I believe it's A&M who has been working on it for a year...

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

He's his own agent. If this has been going on for a year, it means he's been talking with aTm for a year

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

You are assuming a fourth hand-rumor of "negotiations" has been going on a for a year. Maybe it was aTm sending him weekly emails and him not responding. Or taking a year to discuss with his wife/family about it. Doesn't mean they went back and forth every day for 365. aTm has cash, threw a number out, and probably very little else was negotiated. It took Buzz time to make the decision.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

The rumors of this having gone on that long were circulating last week, but I tried to brush it off as internal rumoring. But to see it cited by some national pundits who actually would know about it? That's different.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Again, you are making the assumption that they have been going back and forth. Maybe aTm said, 52 weeks ago, I'll give you $6.5mill to come here in 1 year. That would constitute "in the works..." for a while.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Buzz may have had it in his head or even told whit a year ago he was looking to move back closer to home, but I have a very hard time believing he was negotiating in season, especially with all the success we had this season. Come on guys are we mad Buzz is gone sure but he brought us some really good times at VT and we're about to make a hire to capitalize off of what he built. Let's not beat the man down

Go for it

Prost!

(Or Prosit for Fish.)

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Long as it invites me to drink, I'm perfectly happy with either iteration. Danke!

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

Exactly. Even if he 'used' the Hokies, we are far better off today. There's a lot of thin skinned people on the board this morning.

Thank you Buzz.

Exactly. Even if he 'used' the Hokies, we are far better off today. There's a lot of thin skinned people on the board this morning

I don't know about thin skinned. More like disappointed in Buzz after he sold us on his #getbetter brand. Talking to another school while under contract with VT doesn't fit with the brand. People have a right to be pissed about his hypocrisy.

Been following these threads all week and I don't see any factual evidence that Buzz was scheming. A few rumors of "in the works" is pretty ambiguous. I feel you have to have already built the narrative that Buzz is slimy and his persona is a farce in order to really be mad about any of this.

Why not? We did #getbetter. Notably so. What about that brand means he could never choose to move on from Tech? I'm sad, I wish he did want to stay here long term, but the anger confuses me.

Don't look now, but he's already taken that to Texas A&M.

So now our hashtag is "#HardThingsTogether", no, wait (that's UVa football) it's "#ImproveMore", or whatever the next coach comes up with...

#GetBest got em.

(add if applicable) /s

Why hasn't this gotten more legs?

We are better off at this moment yes. Let's see the roster in November to see if VT basketball is "better off".

Eh.

Given who we're losing after this year, I fully expect 19-20 to be a drop-off season no matter who's coaching.

No, I *don't* want to go to the SEC. Why do you ask?

We don't love dem Hoos.

Wow. Your optimistic

I didn't say we'd suck.

But with almost all the veterans gone, don't be surprised if it's rough.

No, I *don't* want to go to the SEC. Why do you ask?

We don't love dem Hoos.

Whoever we hire, they're going to be better than JJ was. That's better than when he took over. We were just in a sweet sixteen for the first time. The program is on a stronger footing than it was five years ago.

I appreciate the job he did, but he was paid millions of dollars to do it, so I pretty much think he should be thanking us, or at least it's an even split and a fair trade. I sure wouldn't be throwing him a going away party, though.

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

Lots of salt down here. He came here when he didn't need to, did a great job, and is moving on to a place that he thinks is better suited for himself and his family. Let's not turn into the Marquette fans who are still super mad about him leaving. You can look toward the future without all the negativity.

He came to VT because the Big East was imploding, had a new Ad & new president.

Yes, I'm sure there were multiple factors then as there are now. He still didn't have to come here.

Can we not turn this into "oh yeah, well I never loved you anyway"? Buzz brought us to a basketball relevance we've never seen and did it in the right way. I don't care if this was a recent decision or he was planning on leaving the moment he got here. He turned a program beneath the dirt into a national contender. And helped produce great men in the process. Whether the new coach continues that progress, who knows. But those 5 years were fun and for that, I'm thankful.

I'm enjoying the fact Whit stole A$M thunder by announcing their new hire before they could.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Me too. Petty as shit, but I'll take what I can get!

I love the Whit.

Now let's see what he does for us.

Buzz took a job that nobody wanted when he didn't have to. He made this program relevant. He showed the country that you can win basketball games in Blacksburg.

We knew from day 1 that this is how it would end.

Thanks Buzz! You can have a drink on me whenever you want it. Go kick the crap out of Kentucky year in and year out.

We knew he was going to leave. We all knew that, this was never going to be his final spot. That part doesn't bother me at all.

What DOES bother me is the fact that this was supposedly going on behind the scenes behind Whit's back for a year. Last week Whit said he hadn't been contacted from either party about this, so.... yeah....

I knew he was going to leave us. I didn't think he would do it in one of the more sleazy ways.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

One of my recent managers got promoted to his job and left for an external offer 2 months later. The guy came in, reorganized us, even laid off 2 people, and then took another job down the street. He clearly has to know that he was leaving when he gave 2 people the notices. Why blow up the management structure when you aren't going to be around? Why not just be a caretaker and bail in 3 months? I dunno.

My point : Buzz doesn't have a monopoly on working one job while seriously considering being elsewhere. It happens everywhere.

Why blow up the management structure when you aren't going to be around? Why not just be a caretaker and bail in 3 months? I dunno.

Because he was hired to do a job, and a professional does the job, no matter how long they hold it.

This right here. Which is why all the hand-wringing about recruiting confuses me. Buzz was literally doing the job he got hired to do by bringing next year's recruiting class to Cassell.

No, I *don't* want to go to the SEC. Why do you ask?

We don't love dem Hoos.

Except if they follow him to A&M.

It's been mentioned numerous times, but basketball is a different animal than any other team sports. These players primarily come to to play for the coach and the school is secondary. This is probably much more true in the case of Buzz where he is his own brand. If you recall we took two of Marquette's recruits that wanted to play for him.

I agree with the poster above. He recruited players to come play for him. He did his job and he did it well while he was in Blacksburg. If these rumors about already agreeing/knowing about the TAMU job prior to the season had more substantial legs, there is no way it would not have been leaked earlier in the year to the media.

Big difference in recruiting them to play for Buzz and recruiting them to play in Cassell. If his job was to recruit them to play in Cassell, then I don't know how you can say he was doing his job, assuming he knew he was leaving to A&M.

At that point, that's on them, not Buzz.

No, I *don't* want to go to the SEC. Why do you ask?

We don't love dem Hoos.

I think you're finding a grain of sand in this entire beach of information and holding on to that as a reason to be angry at Buzz.

Buzz and Whit are big boys. Whit saw the writing on the wall. He's prepared for this. Let's not all clutch our pearls and pretend this is any different than any other coach leaving for another job. It's always going to hurt on the side that is being left.

Buzz gave everything he had to this program. He is leaving us in an infinitely better position than he found us. The rest is just the cost of doing business. Let it go.

I don't think its unreasonable to be frustrated with how this went down. If that annoys you, sorry.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

You're not frustrated with how this went down. You're frustrated with a half-substantiated and vague set of reports. "It's been in the works" != "He agreed a year ago, didn't tell Whit, and he hates puppies." You're assuming huge chunks of the story.

Agreed. And if Whit has known for a year, it's given him a chance to research, quietly, for a year. Watch guys on the job. Check out coaching ability during games. Discuss with other ADs and people little nuances and personalities. Not just post a job and have people come running. He's been able to basically select who he wanted and thought achievable.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Buzz gave everything he had to this program. He is leaving us in an infinitely better position than he found us.

No he didn't. Everything he had would have meant he stayed. I can't blame the man for accepting a job in his home state, but he gave us a boost and left right when it was going to be "reload" time.

I'm glad he had a good run in his last year. It's been great for us. But we haven't arrived yet, and the next coach is going to have a bit of a rebuild job himself.

VT Basketball the two years prior to Buzz:

2012-2013: 13-19 (4-14)
2013-2014: 9-22 (2-16)

VT this year:

26-9 (12-6)

We're all upset but let the salt go man.

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

VT Basketball the two years prior to Buzz:

2012-2013: 13-19 (4-14)
2013-2014: 9-22 (2-16)

VT this year:

26-9 (12-6)

We're all upset but let the salt go man.

That's some pretty selective data points, or what statisticians would call use of "outliers", with a healthy dose of "recency bias".

While Buzz took us to a new height, and it was indeed "sweet", to use the coach before him as representative of the overall level of VT basketball is a bit misleading, as it doesn't accurately represent the program.

Selective? That's literally the last two years before Buzz was here and what he did his last year here. But OK, her's Seth's last three years:

2009-2010: 25-9 (10-6) (NIT)
2010-2011: 22-12 (9-7) (NIT)
2011-2012: 16-17 (4-12)

Do you want me to draw the arrows for you?

No, I want you to use ALL of Seth Greenberg's time at VT.

Not just the ones that support your conclusion. If you want to draw those arrows, feel free.

All of Seth's Greenbergs Years would not be an accurate reflection on the status of the program when Buzz took over.

It would certainly be more accurate than JUST using the Johnson years.

It really isn't. The dropoff in JJ's years was real. Arguing that Buzz didn't turn stuff around because Malcolm Delaney was good a few years before he got there would be a heavy lift.

No, it really is.

There's no question that Buzz recovered lost ground.

The misleading bit is in claiming that the Johnson years were representative of the stature of the program.

I mean, it depends on what you mean by stature? Dell Curry was great, and having someone like that's jersey hanging from the rafters definitely improves the stature of a program. Being in the ACC improves the stature of a program.

I think the state of the program at the time is a more interesting thing to talk about, and it was a dumpster fire. You're saying that we shouldn't have an recency bias when we discuss this, but we're talking about recruiting 18 year old kids. The recent past matters a LOT, and by that metric, the state of the program when he took over was not good. Buzz both raised the stature and improved the state.

Bruh, you read this whole sub-thread and still think worthwhile to post with this dude? Vtkey is currently an unwinnable argument

EDIT: Changed my mind, I want nothing to do with this circular discussion and should just take my own advice. Left original to not create mystery.

Buzz both raised the stature and improved the state.

I think you've proposed a good way to look at it. He no doubt improved both, but did a lot more for the state than the stature.

The stature is going to depend a lot more on who the next coach is, though Whit certainly has better sales data in his pocket than when Buzz bought into the program. Buzz bought the dip, and sold just before we were likely going to take a step back. The next guy is going to have to buy the potential, and hopefully stick around for longer.

I gave you nine years of records (if you include Buzz'z records other than this year). Sure there was a smaller peak with Seth, but it was nine years ago. My conclusion, which I don't think you know what it is, is that Buzz was the best guy we could've hired to dig us out of a pit and he did more for this program than anyone could've reasonably asked of him. We owe him nothing but gratitude and thanks for his time here. He owes us nothing. He didn't have to come here. He shocked a lot of people by coming here in the first place. He could've moved up from Marquette but he saw something here .

I can think of 10 other ACC schools who wish they had the season we did this year. All of whom were laughing at us when Buzz came to town. That kinda of turnaround, especially in the time frame Buzz did it in is not guaranteed.

Keep being salty about it. Keep trying to snark at facts thrown at you and twisting words just to validate whatever anger you have at Buzz for leaving. But damn I am so happy that we had him here and I don't think that there was anyone else Whit could have hired that would've done any better than Buzz did.

We could've easily been stuck in mediocrity for years after JJ. We could've been what Wake, GT, BC, Clemson currently are. And you know what, that would've been fine because at least it wasn't dead last and hopeless. But no, we got better, we competed with the top guys in this conference, and we made a sweet freakin' sixteen in five mother freakin' years time. That is awesome!

I am sad that Buzz is leaving us but I understand. He left the ship so much better than he found it. That's my conclusion.

I'm not being salty. I'm just pointing out that you provided what I consider to be the wrong context for evaluating Buzz's contribution to VT basketball.

I think he was great. My objection was only to evaluating him in the context of the Johnson years.

It's not "salt". I just believe that if you look at the bigger picture, you get a more realistic evaluation of the impact he had on our program.

Edit: And the comment I originally responded to only gave THREE years worth of data. Comparing Johnson's two years to Buzz's last. That was my point.

So what is the right context to realistically evaluate Buzz in your opinion?

EDIT: This all started with you seeming to think we haven't "arrived" yet. So what does that mean to you? What in VT basketball's history indicates to you that this team can realistically be expected to be more than what they were at the end of Buzz's time here.

The right context is bigger than the two years before he arrived compared to his last year.

And we haven't arrived, even if having one great season was fun.

What does "arrive" mean. Elite 8? Final 4? ACC Champs? (Reg. Season or Tourney?) How many 20+ win seasons in a row do you need before you arrive? Does or SOS have to be above a certain number for that 20+ win season to count? I really have no idea how you define the arrival of the VT basketball program.

I'm done debating with you if you're just going to keep making vague references.

We can define that however we want.

But I can't define it as having made it to the Sweet Sixteen once. At least not in the ACC. I mean, look around us. If we want to be successful in the ACC, that's not even par for the course.

Edit: And the comment I originally responded to only gave THREE years worth of data. That was my point.

And when I gave you three more years of Seth's tenure you said:

No, I want you to use ALL of Seth Greenberg's time at VT.

Not just the ones that support your conclusion. If you want to draw those arrows, feel free.

Not to mention it seemed to me that the first four years of data with Buzz's tenure were taken as a given.

You asked me what data did I want you to include. I gave enough years to prove my point.

Enlarging the context is really all that was necessary. We can do the entire history of VT basketball if we want, and that's probably the most accurate, overall, but if we include all of ACC years I think it tells a fairly accurate story of where VT basketball is today.

nope. These are called Historical FACTS

Nope, it's called "cherry picking your data", or "selective bias".

And it's completely unnecessary if your point is valid.

This is the comment made that you highlighted and took issue with.

Buzz gave everything he had to this program. He is leaving us in an infinitely better position than he found us.

To which you said, "no he didn't".

That is merely your opinion. Nothing more. You provided no substantive data to validate your opinion. No facts, historical or otherwise, to prove anything that you say is more than an opinion. Nothing of merit at all.

Then you call out others who use actual real data that are historical facts as outliers simply because it actually proves the point being made. The point, which you find impossible to actually read correctly, is that the program was bad when he got here and better when he left.

read it again:

Buzz gave everything he had to this program. He is leaving us in an infinitely better position than he found us.

bad when he arrived, better when he left.

This is factually accurate. your opinion is fine to have, but until you actually bring some meat to the table to support your arbitrary claims and not the incessant droning about how your opinion is the only right one, then you bring zero value to the conversation. Literally every post you have made on this and every thread made about Buzz leaving has been the same. All noise, no substance.

You want to prove me and everyone else wrong then show us. We're waiting.

Thank you, fernley!

I said the data was cherry picked. And it was.

As far as my comments having value, who appointed you to the job of deciding that?

My context isn't the two years before Buzz arrived, but the bigger context of VT basketball, which I believe the better context in which to assess the Buzz contribution. VT basketball has ALWAYS been a roller coaster ride, with significant lows and significant highs. We've had success before, and are a good platform for a good coach. We have sporadically made it to post season tournaments before, and even occasionally had success.

Here are a few facts to back up my assessment (many of which I've mentioned before, but never in one place):

-- Buzz isn't even on the list of VT basketball coaches with the top 10 highest winning percentages. By the same token, Johnson isn't the worst, but you'd have to look back to the 1930's to find someone with a lower percentage than Johnson.

-- This wasn't the first time VT was in the Sweet Sixteen. VT has also been in the Elite Eight, though it's been since the 1960's. We have made the tournament and post season for a few years every 10 years. Not enough to be really relevant in basketball, but enough to keep it interesting for us fans.

-- Greenberg made it to the second round of the tournament, which is only one level below Buzz. We also beat UNC, UVa, and Duke during his tenure, sometimes when they were ranked #1.

-- We're at team with a history, some resources and infrastructure, and a lot of fan support.

-- We may have made the Sweet Sixteen, but we haven't been relevant at that level long enough for the UNCs, Dukes, and UVas to fear us as a constant threat to their dominance.

I think Buzz did an outstanding job, and I thoroughly enjoyed the ride, but I'm unwilling to accept the "VT basketball was a perennial cellar-dwellar" narrative. it's simply not the case, and I can provide the data on this if I need to. I merely suggested that the context be broadened.

For the record, I do believe this was the best team VT has fielded since I've been watching. They were the real deal, and not just depending on one or two superstar players.

If we have continued basketball success, we'll have forgotten all about him in 5-10 years, just as we've forgotten Greenberg. If we fall to the bottom of the ACC, then he won't have had any lasting impact at all. Either way, our future rests with Whit's ability to attract another excellent recruiter/coach. The Sweet Sixteen doesn't cement us in elite territory, it just makes Whit's sales job easier to potential coaches, donors, and fans.

For the love of..... Read dude. I said it's fine to have your opinion but you saying your opinion is right and others are wrong, when said others are proving theirs with actual facts and data means yours has no value in the debate being made. I did not say your comments don't have value as an opinion to have.

I did read. You were personally insulting.

Buzz gave everything he had to this program. He is leaving us in an infinitely better position than he found us.

bad when he arrived, better when he left.

Yes, you listed data. None of it means Skipper is wrong. None of it means he cherry picked data. None of this makes your opinion that "no he didn't" correct.

let's go through your list of data:

-- Buzz isn't even on the list of VT basketball coaches with the top 10 highest winning percentages. By the same token, Johnson isn't the worst, but you'd have to look back to the 1930's to find someone with a lower percentage than Johnson.

-- This wasn't the first time VT was in the Sweet Sixteen. VT has also been in the Elite Eight, though it's been since the 1960's. We have made the tournament and post season for a few years every 10 years. Not enough to be really relevant in basketball, but enough to keep it interesting for us fans.

-- Greenberg made it to the second round of the tournament, which is only one level below Buzz. We also beat UNC, UVa, and Duke during his tenure, sometimes when they were ranked #1.

-- We're at team with a history, some resources and infrastructure, and a lot of fan support.

-- We may have made the Sweet Sixteen, but we haven't been relevant at that level long enough for the UNCs, Dukes, and UVas to fear us as a constant threat to their dominance.
Has anyone argued this? How does this disprove what Skipper said and your opinion is right?

Has anyone argued against any this? How does this disprove what Skipper said and your opinion is right?

This is why I ask you to read more carefully. You telling people they are wrong even when they provide factual evidence to support their claims reads as obtuse. Then you make arguments that no one is even talking about:

I'm unwilling to accept the "VT basketball was a perennial cellar-dwellar" narrative.

Who said this? Skipper didn't. I didn't. So all of the data you listed to support this claim is for something no one is even talking about. Why?

Then you make arguments that no one is even talking about:

........ I'm unwilling to accept the "VT basketball was a perennial cellar-dwellar" narrative.

Who said this? Skipper didn't. I didn't. So all of the data you listed to support this claim is for something no one is even talking about. Why?

Skipper DID say this. This is his exact quote:

Being the perennial basement in the hardest basketball conference is not necessarily a desirable position for an up-and-coming coach.

I provided an opinion. I provided facts, in context, to support that opinion.

you're referring to a comment not even in the debate of this sub-thread...... You are mixing the conversation to try and suit your needs.

You want to throw your data down there after his comment, have at it.

However, this sub-thread started with him stating Buzz left the program better than he found it, to which you clearly said: "no he didn't". Hard facts were shown to prove Skipper correct, so rather than accept that you were wrong and move on you want to inject a comment he made down in another sub-thread and prove you are right about something.

Got it.

You asked who said it, and claimed I made it up. I told you. To be honest I didn't go back to see exactly where it was that he said it, but it was within the context of this discussion.

come on.... why are you still bendering? I asked you to provide any substantive merit to your opinion "no he didn't" to the comment by Skipper you yourself highlighted.

You couldn't. Instead you, using your words, cherry picked something from another sub-thread in an attempt to be right about something.

Now you're trying to defend it by saying I asked. Don't be daft. Anyone can clearly see I am talking ONLY about the debate I highlighted. I'm not even in the conversation of the other sub-thread.

I asked you to prove your comment "no he didn't". Still waiting.

Oh, so that argument ran it's course, so now you want to take some other statement out of context, pretend you interpret it a different way, and nit-pick it, while calling me names.

No thanks.

This makes zero logical sense

Caveat: I was going to post this earlier, decided not to, and now I feel obliged after reading through this thread and seeing the same trend.

You gotta just walk away Fernley; it's absolutely impossible with him man. I've been there multiple times. It's a endless cycle of arrogance, ignorance, misery, frustration, verbiage mockery and condescension with the contextual goal posts shifting all the time and all rationale thrown out of the window in a vicious attempt to have to always "be right". It's a shame you can't have a reasonable debate/argument without him dying on every single hill.

I'm sure this comment will receive it's necessary downvotes and that's okay, but I hate arrogance and when quite a few members are told their opinion is wrong and get snarky, matter-of-fact replies to every comment. Thankfully, I feel like ~97% of TKP can have a reasonable debate and enjoy the light-hearted banter. End rant.

"What kind of person would throw away a perfectly good dog?"

"It's a miracle in Blacksburg, TYROD DID IT MIKEY, TYROD DID IT!"

Dude, I get it. I've been there with him too. I have been keeping away from his posts for a long time now but it just keeps getting worse and this stuff with Buzz has been a boon for his particular type of bendering, which irked me.

It's a endless cycle of arrogance, ignorance, misery, frustration, verbiage mockery and condescension with the contextual goal posts shifting all the time and all rationale thrown out of the window in a vicious attempt to have to always "be right".

I hate arrogance and when quite a few members are told their opinion is wrong and get snarky, matter-of-fact replies to every comment.

Absolutely on the money.

This has gotten to the level of hokieknight IMO. It's a shame that reason and thoughtfulness has to walk away from fighting back against trolls like this. It should be the other way around.

But I'll let it go.

We're done here.

Ok let's do this:

Buzz isn't even on the list of VT basketball coaches with the top 10 highest winning percentages.

You're right he's 11th. Here's who is in front of him:

1) Harlan Sanborn (1916-17): 17-2
2) Branch Bocock (1908-11 & 1913-16): 57-13
3) Charles Bernier (1917-20): 47-13
4) Chuck Noe (1955-62): 109-51
T5) LN Keesling (1911-12): 6-3
T5) RM Brown (1908-09): 4-2
7) Don DeVoe (1971-76): 88-45
8) Charlos Moir (1976-87): 213-119
9) Howie Shannon (1964-71): 104-68
10) William Matthews (1962-64): 28-19

If you took out Buzz's first season (11-22) he'd be 8th on that list.

I'm not sure the 1976-1987 Independent/Metro teams are the proper measuring stick to the 2014-2019 ACC teams. I certainly don't think anything pre 1980 matters much at all.

This wasn't the first time VT was in the Sweet Sixteen. VT has also been in the Elite Eight, though it's been since the 1960's. We have made the tournament and post season for a few years every 10 years. Not enough to be really relevant in basketball, but enough to keep it interesting for us fans.

VT had never made three consecutive tourneys until this year and it was the first Sweet 16 made since the tournament expanded to 64+ teams. Again, with that Elite 8 team, you're comparing a 2014-2017 ACC program to a 1960's independent.

Greenberg made it to the second round of the tournament, which is only one level below Buzz. We also beat UNC, UVa, and Duke during his tenure, sometimes when they were ranked #1.

So Buzz made it to consecutive tourneys (which Seth never did) and he went farther. Not sure what your point is here? We also beat Duke, UNC, and UVA. UVA also wasn't what it is now during most of Seth's tenure.

We're at team with a history, some resources and infrastructure, and a lot of fan support

This is an opinion more than fact but ok. I would also remind you that we have always been and still are a football school. Basketball is a second fiddle and it's probably not that close.

We may have made the Sweet Sixteen, but we haven't been relevant at that level long enough for the UNCs, Dukes, and UVas to fear us as a constant threat to their dominance.

Nothing your provided indicates that VT has ever been that or should realistically expect to be that.

I agree that the future rests on Whit's ability to make the right hire AND on that hire's ability to live up to what he sells to us. I agree with Sweet Sixteen does not cement us in elite territory but VT basketball has never been a program that has been classified as elite and it still has a long way to go to get there, if it ever does.

If you took out Buzz's first season (11-22) he'd be 8th on that list.

you know... when you are trying to argue you aren't cherry-picking stats, this isn't the best thing to say

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

You read all of that and that's what you pick out?

Not the part where Vtkey is using records of coaches who coached 8 games in 1908-09 to make his argument about VT's expectation for a coach's win percentage?

I acknowledged where Buzz stands. He's 11th. You want me to analyze it where you have to coach at least 40 games to be eligible and re-rank?

You read all of that and that's what you pick out?

No, I didn't read any of it. Quite frankly, this is a silly back and forth that I probably should have closed a while ago. I just happened to notice that sentence while scrolling the page, and commented on the irony.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Quite frankly, this is a silly back and forth

hold up hold up hold up hold up. YOU want to talk about the irony of a back and forth on TKP? Please.

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

This should settle the argument. I read this on Wikipedia, so its 100% fact.

Success under Greenberg
Virginia Tech saw a resurgence of its basketball program under coach Seth Greenberg who was hired prior to the 2003–04 season.

VHokie

I agree with this statement:

I agree that the future rests on Whit's ability to make the right hire AND on that hire's ability to live up to what he sells to us. I agree with Sweet Sixteen does not cement us in elite territory but VT basketball has never been a program that has been classified as elite and it still has a long way to go to get there, if it ever does.

This is very similar to what I'm saying.

So I think we're in agreement, all around. The only point I was trying to make is that the measuring the stature of the program by the Johnson years exaggerates the actual effect.

I'd go one step further, and say we're in the top basketball league, with a great AD and a lot of support, looking for a great coach who can hopefully get us back to the top of the ACC.

The one argument I think we can safely make is that maybe our recent success will help us attract that next coach. But make no mistake, they'll be doing the heavy lifting to get us back to the Sweet Sixteen.

Edit: I took out the "cherry picking" reference. Let's just say I think a bigger context is more useful.

So me using data from the last 10 years is cherry picking and you using coaching records from pre-1930 is ok....

Really?

I used the entire history of VT basketball.

I was just acknowledging that Johnson wasn't the "worst" coach ever in VT basketball. More for completeness than to make any kind of point.

I was originally just trying to get Greenberg's record into consideration. If you're arguing that Buzz changed the stature of the program, we can at least go back two coaches, can't we?

As far as my comments having value, who appointed you to the job of deciding that?

Coming from a guy who comes after comments with little/no value pretty consistently. Ironic.

"It's a miracle in Blacksburg, TYROD DID IT MIKEY, TYROD DID IT!"

Related image

Before Buzz, VT was around a top 50 job in the country . Now we're possibly a top 25-30 coaching opportunity. What else is there to say?

Twitter me

Preeeeeeeeeeach.

"What kind of person would throw away a perfectly good dog?"

I'll say this... I'm happy with what Buzz did for the program, and we are in a MUCH better spot now than we were when he got here. Of course, had Weaver not fucked the goat with the previous coaching turnover, maybe we wouldn't have needed it, but that's neither here nor there.

VT basketball was a dumpster fire before Buzz, and he made us legitimately relevant to the point where we can actually go out and swing big for a coach and it won't be met with 'bless your heart'. That in and of itself deserves our respect.

My only frustration here is how the exit went down, not that it went down. I don't think its unfair to criticize the process, even if we knew the end result was inevitable.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

My only frustration here is how the exit went down, not that it went down. I don't think its unfair to criticize the process, even if we knew the end result was inevitable.

From my understanding, the big issue was leaks everywhere from A&M? Not sure how much Buzz or Whit could do about that.

Twitter me

Alum, by no means am I debating your POV, the only thing I would suggest to take into consideration, is that Buzz is his own agent. An open position is typically offered to a coach's agent, and the agent is the one who holds on to that golden ticket, and the agent is the "buffer" between the coach and the courting party. However, with Buzz, he had no buffer, and I get it, that makes him look shady and hypocritical. But, personally, I don't think any less of Buzz, because I truly feel his effort was 100% all the way till the last buzzer. Does it suck? Sure, but I don't think any of us can question his desire to put VT in the best position to succeed at ALL times. And because of that, I have no frustration or ill will towards the man. Just something to think about, a rational level-headed response, rather than an attack is what I hope you get from all of this.

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

How would you have wanted it to go then? No news leaks until after our run, followed by a quick exit?

That's just not the way the world works today. It does truly suck that we had this hanging over us last week but I don't see how it could've been handled better by Buzz and Whit.

The whole "been in the works for a year thing" is extremely vague and could mean anything. All we know is that aTm told him as early as last year that the job was on the table. That's it. Nobody knows more than that.

What was the process, Alum? Did Buzz come out with rumors? Did he hint that he would be leaving? Did someone confirm a phone call or flight to College Station months ago?

No, none of that happened. All that happened was reporters typing on Twitter and speculation. Buzz has not said a single word about this other than the fact that he wasn't going to address jobs to the public or his players.

For everyone butthurt today, you must have been expecting another Frank Beamer tenure.

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

*moved to be closer to the comment I'm responding to*

Edit: Moved to respond to VTKey's comment because he wanted to move it for some reason.

No, I want you to use ALL of Seth Greenberg's time at VT.

Not just the ones that support your conclusion. If you want to draw those arrows, feel free.

If you don't mind me offering my $0.02. I think this reflects that the program had peaked under Seth and was beginning to slightly recede or stagnate. At that point of time, the right call was to let him go, and I have always said it was the right time. We just bungled the hell out of in both timing and just how petty we were over it. The timing made it so it would be impossible to get anyone competent and the pettiness torched our reputation in the basketball community to the point where James Johnson probably was the best we could have done.

Whit and Buzz deserve a lot of credit for repairing this. But without that bungling in 2012, we wouldn't have needed Buzz to dig us out to begin with. Now, we're back to where we should have been all along, if not a little better off, which also is a credit to Buzz.

I do think we had a decent foundation that Buzz was able to build off looking back. The JJ years were bad, but it didn't completely destroy us, and with a legitimate coach in the fold, we snapped back to our previous form pretty quick. But it did take the perfect coach to get there. In the end, we are where we are now because of the work that Buzz, Whit, and Seth did over the past 20 years, and to only say Buzz is our savior is a little much.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

I agree, except for the exact timing.

Weaver should have fired Greenberg at the end of the prior season or the end of the next one, and should have actually had a list of candidates in hand.

It seemed as if Weaver was caught with no plan whatsoever.

James Johnson's salary- $680,000.00 next to nil support staff. Buzz Williams salary- 2.5 million, largest support staff in the ACC.

God, are we back to the support staff?

Woosh... point is Buzz was given everything he wanted - every tool to win. Johnson- who I am not a fan of, BTW- was not. It's not an apples to apples comparison. If the next guy makes 3 mil, Whit allows him 50 staff, gives him what he wants, and we can't compete? Then yeah, Buzz is the almighty

Fair point, but Buzz also commanded that level of support while Johnson was in a position to prove he belonged in that position. I'm not trying to compare the two but it is accurate to say Buzz dramatically improved the program and changed it for the better.

Yes he did. Buzz was as advertised- a good coach, a sweet 16 type coach based on what he did at marquette. Won't take that away from him. The idea that he is the only guy that can win at VT though is overstated and will be proven wrong if Whit is still serious about basketball with this new hire.

Nobody is saying he's the only guy that can win here.

What I'm saying is that he may have been the only guys we could've hired in 2014 who could've turned this ship around as quickly and effectively as he did.

definitely not the only guy. absolutely agree

The proof is going to come with the next coach.

I hope Buzz's tenure set the precedent that VT basketball needs and deserves a big boy coach with a big boy salary and a large support staff to continue moving forward. If we can capitalize on how we are right now, we'll be closer to winning a natty in basketball than any other sport.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

that's more on Whit though, not Buzz. Buzz did what we needed him to do. We all wish he would have stayed longer but he gone. Now it's Whit's job to find the right candidate to succeed from where we are now.

Absolutely. The good thing is, I have faith in Whit to get the guy none of the national 'experts' suspect, because he's proven capable of it multiple times. At this point, we just have to sit back and see who it is.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

agreed. In Whit we trust.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Thats pretty Whitty...

VHokie

Its old. made that back when he hired Buzz

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

:)

We put the K in Kwality

Haha, should've added /s.

This is a good point, I was making a joke. JJ shouldn't have been in that position, but/and he didn't have the support of the university or the athletic department. Luckily, I think there's a 0% chance that we return to that, regardless of who we hire.

Buzz took a job that nobody wanted when he didn't have to. He made this program relevant. He showed the country that you can win basketball games in Blacksburg.

This is complete fiction.

We had a hell of a ride with Buzz, and he took us from the floor in the ACC (where we shouldn't have been, anyway) to the Sweet Sixteen. I thoroughly enjoyed the ride (well, except everyone saying he was gone WHILE we were in Sweet Sixteen week.)

But as far as it being a "job nobody wanted", and "we didn't win games in Blacksburg", that takes it a bit too far, and is recency bias.

Being the perennial basement in the hardest basketball conference is not necessarily a desirable position for an up-and-coming coach. We out-kicked our coverage on Buzz and we all knew it.

This program has never seen sustained success like we have in the last few years. Buzz took VT basketball to a level nobody has seen yet. Cut up my words all you want but Buzz was better than we deserved and I'm so thankful we had him.

If you would've told me in March 2014 than in five years we would have been coming off our third tourney appearance and a sweet 16, I'd have laughed. This program has recovered from the Greenberg-Johnson fiasco that drove it off the side of the road and that's thanks all to Buzz.

We weren't the perennial basement in the ACC. We had two years under James Johnson, who should have NEVER been hired as VT's head coach.

Buzz was a great coach, and an inspired hire. But we're pretty much the same program, with one Sweet Sixteen appearance (not win). The program has been to both the Sweet Sixteen and the Elite Eight before. OK, it was a long time ago, but we were there.

The program already had a trajectory, and a history of winning the occasional game against UNC, Virginia, and Duke. Greenberg was able to do that. Buzz got VT basketball to exactly ONE level higher win than Seth Greenberg got. (And two additional NCAA appearances, where Greenberg just missed the cut as a bubble team.)

I've enjoyed the ride with Buzz. He did elevate the program, and this was perhaps the best group of players we've ever had. I just see no reason to pretend we never had prospects before. Our future completely depends on Whit's ability to parlay one Sweet Sixteen appearance into a coach who can get us back there.

Thanks, Buzz. On to the next.

I think Buzz corrected the basketball trajectory that was thrown off by JJ.

Under Stokes we were a bad team that... well, we were just bad. Very bad. We lost to an amateur travelling EA Sports exhibition team that we literally hired to lose to us my freshman year. We sucked.

Seth came in and found our pulse. Suddenly we were a team on the move. We went from bad to actually respectable. Under Seth we started knocking off ranked teams like it was a hobby and made postseason play a recurring theme for a program that really didn't know what it was like. We finally made the NCAA Tournament and won a game! Wohoo! But we could never quite get to that level again, despite trying. Then he pissed off Weaver and was shitcanned nearly a month after the season ended and we were left with a backdoor hire of a severely underqualified coach.

The bottom fell out under JJ. The team tanked badly to the point where we were a joke. 4 ACC wins in 2 seasons and he was let go.

Then comes Buzz, and almost immediately we hit the level we were under Seth. And then Buzz builds on it and raises us to the point where we made the tournament 3 years in a row with a Sweet 16 appearance.

Our program has been building steadily for 20 years now. The JJ years were the blip, and if Whit gets this next coaching hire right, all of this building and all of this momentum should help culminate with the successes of the next guy in here.

That's not to say that Buzz doesn't deserve a lot of thanks for what he did. He absolutely does for course correcting our program. He did it faster than many believed possible. But its also not correct to think that he didn't benefit at least a little from the work that was done before him, too.

Not sure why I replied to you on this... my thoughts got a little carried away.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

We lost to an amateur travelling EA Sports exhibition team that we literally hired to lose to us my freshman year.

LMAO. Can you please elaborate on this? I didn't watch much VT basketball back then, so this is the first I've heard of this.

"For those who have passed, for those to come, reach for excellence."

Not much to find because it wasn't an 'official' game, much like the game we played against Liberty wasn't official this year. But yeah, things in the 2002-2003 range weren't so good for the team. The highlights of those seasons were beating an unranked middling UVa at home and then knocking off ranked UConn who didn't have Calhoun on the sidelines (I want to say he fell ill or broke his leg or something like that). Those teams were a cluster, but hey... it was our cluster, dammit.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Think that's when Calhoun was diagnosed with cancer.

“These people are losing their minds. This is beautiful.”

Ahh yeah, that's it. I remember being at that game and thinking just how completely out of sorts UConn looked. That was just a dark time for that program. The players and coaches were really shook with the diagnosis, and you could tell.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

I'd say that's a pretty accurate summary.

Thank you for the Sweet 16 appearance Buzz, it's been a great run.

With that said, he did nothing to help us build for the future. We will be near bare bones next season. It's going to be a rough rebuild.

He will be forgotten 25 years from now, if he had stayed even a couple of years longer then he truly could've been someone special at Blacksburg. Maybe not Beamer levels, but definitely a legend in his own right.

I understand why he moved and his motives seem okay (although if he really was planning this for a year then that's pretty bad) but time will tell if this was just a flash in the pan or part of something bigger. My gut feeling is it'll be the former.

Yeah, and while a lot of accomplishments were done while he was here, I still see his job as pretty unfinished. Always thought he would be the type of guy to see it through, but obviously not.

I don't wish anyone luck or good fortune when they leave you in the dust. I am bitter, will be until i die!

Eat a bag of shit, Brent!

Not the best take here

hey, everyone is entitled to an opinion, doesn't have to be shared among the tkp masses.

And your opinion would be fine without the eat shit line. That's what pushed it too far.

Little too much.

Something something community guidelines something something

I found TKP after two rails from TOTS then walking back to my apartment and re-watching the 2012 Sugar Bowl. I woke up the next day with this username.

lol and right on cue I get an email from the VT Online store to buy VT merch.

Our timing for these emails needs work....

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Dude, the online store has ZERO to do with the athletic department. I get like 10 a week of those things.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

I'll sell you a Buzzketball shirt. New condition.

Welp say goodbye to any kid he recruited to come here for next year

Edit: Harris is now gone (he was the one from Fairfax)
Edit 2: Bede and Clarke are in the transfer portal
Edit 3: Nolley has entered the portal
Edit 4: Yavuz Gultekin is gone

Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies

Why? Not like Buzz is Coach K. Maybe those kids want to play in the ACC and for VT.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Will completely depend on the new coach.

This is probably true, but Anthony Harris is a VA kid (ranked #66 overall), so there is a possibility he stays on board if the coach is right.

"For those who have passed, for those to come, reach for excellence."

And remember, Tate Martell got a transfer waiver from Ohio State to Miami because of the coaching change.

That damn has already burst. I wouldn't be surprised to see quite a few of our current players bail only to get exception to play immediately because of that precedent.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

There is going to be a lot of playing time to go around. Maybe that won't be enough to keep some of the guys, but I'd imagine a competent coach would at least be able to use that to leverage some solid transfers.

stick it in, stick it in, stick it in!

Thats ridiculous to assume. As stated, our highest rated recruit is from Paul XI in Fairfax. Maybe he doesnt want to go to Texas? Maybe he wants to stay close to home for his family? Maybe the recruits will like the new coach?

VHokie

Because he was recruited to play for Buzz

Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies

Looking at flight tracking (And could be nothing) - Seems a few flights on nice private jets today to Blacksburg.
one from Westchester, NY and another from Erie PA. Could be nothing. Could be other planes coming in/out that block their tail number on the tracking sites.

Westchester, NY

Interestingly, this could be either Willard or Gregg Marshall (whose Wichita St team lost to Lipscomb in NYC last night in the NIT semis).

The one from Erie, PA is less obvious if it's someone related to the coaching search.

Also could be the Tim Cluess from Iona.

That is also close enough to Seton Hall.

As an NJ native, Westchester would be mental to fly out of if you had private jet money with all the other airports between.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

I was taking about Erie.

What?!? Unless you're playing a game of subterfuge and flying into Erie, PA from NJ, Erie is over 6 hours from Seton Hall...

Barber dropped some napalm this morning.

https://www.richmond.com/sports/college/schools/virginia-tech/barber-sur...

Williams was no favorite of local media. He was habitually late for postgame press conferences, often ambling into the media room 40-45 minutes after games. He was one of the ACC's least accessible coaches for local beat writers, and his propensity for insulting the people who covered his program around the commonwealth – often on his weekly and postgame radio shows – should have been beneath a coach of his stature.

Easy to say when he's out the door.
But seriously, Buzz had his own drummer in his head. Does this shock anyone? Or alter how you look at him?

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

In Barbers defense, he said it while Williams was here as well.

Not shocked at all. He made comments to Burnop & Laaser all the time about the media.

The thing about Buzz is that he's not unfriendly with media in general, I just don't think he had patience for what he perceived to be unfair questions from local media (most of the time I'd side with Buzz to be honest).

Agreed - to expand upon this, I don't think Buzz viewed dealing with the media as part of his job; I think he felt like the two 'stakeholders' he had to report to were the players and the administration; neither of which the media is a part of. Not saying that's right/wrong, but I believe that was Buzz's opinion.

Twitter me

He's gonna have a rough time at A&M then with all of their stakeholders and media

I look at Buzz like I look at Tom Wilson being a huge Caps fan (minus the fighting): Love to have him on your side, but dislike him and his antics if he's on the other side.

"What kind of person would throw away a perfectly good dog?"

I don't know about that. On the face this looks like more shitty whining from a reporter but I think you left out the qualifier to this which came in the sentence afterwards.

But to argue with the job he did in Blacksburg would be a fool's errand.

Yes, it is a fools errand. So was calling him out for the wait time with dumbass tweets about how an hour long pep talk isn't going to turn the season around and then subsequently getting that shoved down your throat as he proved you a fool.

reporters whining about having to wait less an hour to do their job gets zero respect from me, but overall Barber seems very positive about Buzz's time at VT.

I have been to booster events after games since the 90s.
Buzz was habitually slow to get up there. These are people giving directly to support basketball and he would be late arriving and repeat the same philosophy (verbatim) that had been on the radio.

Other coaches had understood that post game events with boosters (especially after wins) we're glad handing events.
To be honest, I feel like Fuente does this part of the job better. Yes I agree that Fuente could be much more open with the program, but on a personal level he is affable.

First, thanks for being such a great support to VT. truly an example for the rest of us.

Question though: Was the time the real issue or was it the personality once there?

If Buzz was nonchalant about time and wasted it doing who knows what that would be one thing. But it appeared to be that the time was spent on the team, which he is hired to push to higher levels. Levels that boosters give good money to see be achieved. If that's getting done and part of it is due to a philosophy that leading his team after games is as important as before then what's the problem?

I appreciate the candor about the difference between Buzz and Fuente though. Thanks for that.

Good question. It was personality and time.

Personality: I think I have already detailed and has been a bigger issue to me.
Additionally, I know that I will be a Hokie far longer than any of the current coaches. I do not think the coaches and I are friends because of access, I enjoy supporting Hokie student athletes. I take pride in their successes on and off the field of play.

Time: These are previously scheduled gatherings and should have been a priority to get there sooner. It would be one thing to be delayed (or even reschedule) an event due to a unique game (i.e. WVU debacle a couple seasons ago) where the team needed immediate focus. Buzz expects his players to schedule their time appropriately and this means doing things that are not fun, he could have done better. This would never have been a reason to let him go, it was an annoyance.

awesome thanks for the reply.

One more question regarding time. If he was notoriously arriving late to these and it was actually for a legit reason, then why not just schedule them to be an hour later than they normally are expected to be?

And I agree with the bold statement and wouldn't assume that. I give to the program and haven't stepped foot on the campus for years. Love for the team, players and school is all the motivation needed.

The timing is that the events are right after the game. You are not going to leave Cassell to wait in your car to just come back in in one hour.

It was not that big of a deal, he just was worse than other coaches before him. Every coach is going to have strong suits and weak points.

I can see how the reporters doing a job would be annoyed with this type of behavior. It is idyllic to think the VT basketball coach only works for the AD and his player's parents. The VT basketball coach must work with the AD, others in the athletic department, the players, the players parents, the local media, the national media, VT students, VT boosters & general fans.

The VT basketball coach will need the support of all of those people to maintain a high level of success.

I understand, but certainly these events are held in a room somewhere yeah? I mean do people need to go wait in their car or could something be planned during this time to allow people to mingle and have some light entertainment for an hour until Buzz is normally expected to arrive?

That's a serious logistical question. I honestly don't know and am curious about it.

I agree that the coach has got to work with everyone you listed. That's the job. I get it. I just think, as you correctly stated, every coach has strong points and weaknesses. I just think there could be positive ways to mitigate this particular weakness, rather than having boosters get frustrated waiting roughly the same amount of time every game or being told they have to go wait in their car.

Not surprised by this. Buzz made it clear he doesn't prioritize media over anything else to do with his team. I don't blame him, personally.

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

Barber likes to complain a lot so this does not surprise me. The RTD generally does a pretty bad job covering VT sports as it is and Barber is an extension of that.

We all knew it was coming. Classy announcement by Whit. Thanks to Buzz for a fun and successful four years and best of luck to him. Whit wasn't lying about how this job just became one of the most attractive now in college basketball. Who would've thought that four years ago? We're going to continue to build and be successful. Go Hokies!

"What kind of person would throw away a perfectly good dog?"

first, a leg

I dont really care that we've had weeks to mentally come to grips with this, it still stings. I also dont believe that we should be happy with the time we had with Buzz simply because we were a dumpster fire before he arrived and he helped turn it around. I'm grateful for what he's done for the program to get it to where it is, but there's a lot of work left to be done and inside the premier basketball conference in the game. His departure at this time just f-ing sucks for us and I hate it.

To your point - (I think) we are an attractive job. The cupboard may not be full for whoever gets here, but the Buzz/Whit combo showed that this program can be successful in the ACC and give the blue bloods fits. Now the pressure is on Whit to show that this wasn't a miracle 5 years, make the right hire, and keep momentum going.

I also dont believe that we should be happy with the time we had with Buzz simply because we were a dumpster fire before he arrived and he helped turn it around.

No disrespect, but this is the sole reason I'm happy. I don't think any of us thought Buzz was here to stay. He gave us everything he had, made us relevant, and set the foundation to build off of. That's about all you could ask for. Just my opinion.

"What kind of person would throw away a perfectly good dog?"

No disrespect taken. I probably could have elaborated more but didn't. What I was driving at is that we should be a destination program, not a way point. Buzz brought us to being much closer to that destination program we want to be (we aren't there yet, and not many programs are), but then just decided to dump us in favor of (on paper) is a (relatively) small upgrade in pay, closer to home, and with some new bosses that have a very short turnaround time expectation on their investment.

I want to hear from Buzz what his rationale was. That's what's really making me upset about all of this is that we dont know and we're speculating. What the hell is it about the A&M job that make it the better option than staying in Blacksburg?

I gotcha, have a leg. To answer your question though, I think what made it a better option for him was that he's from Texas, his wife is a TA&M alum, he used to coach there, there's a hotbed of recruits down there, and he knows he can bring them back to prominence relatively quickly. Buzz is a builder. It's easy for us with our orange and maroon glasses to see why Tech is such an attractive job and wonder why anyone else would want to leave, but I can understand the factors why he would - especially going back to his home state. Also, to try to fully understand Buzz's thought process is impossible. He's one of the most eclectic thinkers I've ever seen. He may be clinically insane. Anyway, I'm rambling, but try to see it from his standpoint and be happy with what he did for us. Just because we weren't a destination program for him doesn't make us a destination program. We'll be fine now.

"What kind of person would throw away a perfectly good dog?"

. Classy announcement by Whit

My favorite thing about this announcement is that bit about Buzz still funding two scholarship endowments here at Tech even though he's leaving. I've never heard of an outgoing basketball coach doing that to the school they're leaving.

I found TKP after two rails from TOTS then walking back to my apartment and re-watching the 2012 Sugar Bowl. I woke up the next day with this username.

BuT bUzZ dId Us DiRtY hE dOeSn'T cArE aBoUt ViRgInIa TeCh

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

What are the odds of KBJ, Chris Clarke and maybe even Nolley wearing an Aggies uniform in November?

Nolley I would say is least likely, it's hard to know how Buzz feels on CC at this point I think depending on the hire they could convince him to stay

Go for it

who knows, but A&M (or anyone) can take Clarke. Last week's news likely burned his last chance at VT, if he even had one to burn.

I hardly think were in a position of pushing out one of our best returning players, as well as one of our programs top all time recruits, over what is a minor possession of pot charge, if we wanna play with the big dogs I'm sorry but these are things that are going to happen, I'm far less worried about a player with a minor ammount of pot than other situations.

Go for it

I agree that getting caught with weed isn't that big a deal, but Clarke wasn't suspended the entire 2018-19 season because of smoking weed. If you're in that kind of status any small transgression can be amplified.

Sounds like that wasn't all he was burning

It depends on the new coach.
But KBJ 50/50?
CC, 0%
Nolley, 0%
To my understanding both CC & Nolley would have to sit out a year.

Sitting out a year assumes that a hardship waiver isn't approved.

If Whit pulls off another home run here (Marshall), my hats off to him. If he settles for Willard (or Wojo, but perhaps less so), I'll just point out to the "In Whit We Trust" team that Buzz was just as much timing/circumstance at Marquette as it was brilliant work by Whit.

Also, Fuente...the jury is still out.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

He hit a home run with Buzz.

In Whit I trust, because the guy consistently hits home runs. Yes, the jury is still out on Fuente, but Whit is a good AD, not a fortune teller. We UNIVERSALLY thought Fuente was one of the better available coaches when he was hired. Some of us STILL think that.

In Whit I trust, because the guy consistently hits home runs.

Does he though?

I'm a Whit fan, and perhaps there are coaches among the Olympic sports that I'm not aware of that would fall into the "Home Run" category but by my count, he's really only hit one with Buzz.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

Our wrestling program would like a word with you....

I found TKP after two rails from TOTS then walking back to my apartment and re-watching the 2012 Sugar Bowl. I woke up the next day with this username.

Don't follow wrestling, so that's why I included that caveat.

I certainly saw the coverage of Mekhi and the success that the team had but I didn't know Whit had hired the coach.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

Baseball and Softball have seemed to rebound a bit from where they were under their previous coaches. Wrestling just had their first natty champion. The soccer teams have been improving.

And, I mean its not a coincidence we've started winning the Commonwealth Challenge under Whit. He's helping to raise the floor, which should help all programs across the board.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

All valid points.

I'm not as tuned in on sports that aren't MBB/Football.

And I'm not saying he isn't doing a good job, but I also don't know that you can say he's 'hit multiple home runs' with his hires.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

Certainly, everyone believed Fuente was a great hire when Whit made the announcement.

Even if he doesn't pan out, he was "a great get" for VT when he was hired, as he was considered an "up and comer", and one of the best hires available to us at that time.

As far as results, the jury is certainly still out, even if some of the folks at TKP have soured on him.

I mean.

That's like saying you can't blame a GM who drafts a bust.

If Fuente doesn't work out in the long term its fair to criticize Whit even if Fuente was seen as a quality candidate at the time.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

One difference is that a GM is only in charge of one sport. He sort of has to get his one coach right.

If a coach doesn't work out in the long term, I suppose Whit just hires another coach. But ADs aren't fortune tellers. The best they can do is hire good candidates and hope they work out. If they always get duds, I can see how you'd criticize them for that.

Whit hit it out of the park with Williams. Let's hope it works out with Fuente. Whit has certainly earned the benefit of the doubt.

Hopefully, Fuente works out.

Point remains that a hire that's seen as a great hire at the time but doesn't work out can still be attributed as a failure by the individual who hires them.

I'm not anti-Whit, and I don't even like making this argument but it does feel like some people (not necessarily you) give Whit more credit than perhaps he deserves for Buzz. I'm not sure the percentage breakdown but Whit did certainly benefit from the Big East falling apart, the AD/President turning over at Marquette etc.

Anyways. I *very* much hope Fuente works out. I hope Whit hires a rock-star (personally, I'm holding out for Marshall), but whoever it is I hope they continue Buzz's momentum.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

I don't know if we can give him more credit than he deserves for Buzz. That was some rock-star level hiring there. (Yes, the timing was a bit lucky.)

But I like what Whit has done for the athletic department, even in addition to what I consider to be great hires in both Williams and Fuente.

Will will get tested again with this basketball hire.

All I'm saying is there was a bit of a "fell into his lap" aspect to it.

Plus, IIRC, he had some connections to Buzz through Cinci? Can't remember that detail.

Either way, he absolutely deserves kudos for the hire but it does feel like sometimes people want to overlook the additional factors that lead to Buzz leaving/joining VT.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

I see what you're saying, but don't quite understand the point.

Whether it was random circumstances, or Whit being a deity of an AD, it was without question a top notch hire. To me it earns a level of trust either way until we gather more data points, and a data point is incoming in 3...2...1...

Yes it was a top notch hire, the point I'm trying to make is that those who expect another top notch hire may be disappointed.

Buzz was an A+ hiring. I think a Gregg Marshall would be similarly impressive. The other names that we've been linked to (Wojo, Willard, Odom etc.) would be solid, but not as impressive.

Just trying to get the point across that there was a bit of luck in the timing of Buzz being unhappy at MU, Whit being new to the job and having a bad coach in place that was easily replaceable etc. and we may not see a repeat of that.

But I could be (and hope I am) wrong!

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

Heard that. So you're trying to tamper expectations. Smart thing to do as I anticipate this hire may not be as "homerun" as without Marshall being the name

I think you can look at any really good acquisition as needing a bit of luck to happen.

As much as it pains me now, the Nats only got Harper in the first place because they just happened to suck at the right time. Had they sucked slightly less that year they don't get him and how different would that franchise look now?

I'd use Ernie Grunfeld for a better example.

He shouldn't get credit for drafting John Wall because John was just about unanimous as the best prospect in the draft.

EDIT: This is probably too much hyperbole. Ernie deserves zero credit for Wall. Whit certainly deserves plenty for Buzz, but as an illustrative point, I think the mitigating factors at MU need to be taken into consideration.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

There's actually a good book I read a few months back by Annie Dukes (professional poker player) that goes into exactly what you're talking about. She posits that it's a double edged sword. You can't judge a specific decision based on purely the result (she calls this 'resulting'), but at the same time multiple bad results is a trend that must be addressed.

In my personal opinion if Fuente turns out to be a bust it would be one bad data point among a handful of positive ones. I would give Whit the benefit of the doubt that it was a good decision that no one could have foreseen turning into a bust. Just my opinion though, and obviously I want Fuente to succeed and never have to wonder.

You'd also have to assign a weighting system of importance for each hire, with Fuente being weighed the heaviest of all the hires, by a significant margin.

I'm not disagreeing, just feel like Whit gets slightly more credit for the Buzz hire than he deserves.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

If the pinnacle of the Fuente era is the Coastal Championship with Beamer's players, it was not a "great get" for VT at all. Hindsight of course, but "up and comer" "hot name" are not what makes a hire great. Results do. If CFJ continues to mire around 3-4th in a weak coastal division with HIS players, it was not a great hire. A great hire would be to elevate what Beamer did, not be less than that.

Just seems like it's a bit early for the prognosticators here to be calling the pinnacle.

As far a judging by Beamer's record, what coach matches that in three years? Not even Beamer would measure up to that, and people here would be running him out of town on a rail. He didn't win more than six games before his seventh year. I hate to break the news, but he gets at least two more years, unless this year is similar to last year, in which his seat is going to be a bit hot.

I don't want to derail this thread but I think Fuente is completely tied to QP's success.

If the next two years are sub-par, and QP doesn't live up to the lofty expectations...I fully expect Fuente to be out.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

I think the whole team will be better without the distraction of the divided locker room, but yeah, Fuente has a lot riding on QP.

Also, we need to have a defense this year, because I still haven't figured out what that was all about last year.

May want to check on Dabo's first couple of years as well!😎.

Should be noted that the oldest Fu recruits are now effectively sophomores (as a group).

Think we may be jumping the gun.

Softball in particular is tearing it up still. If you haven't been able to see a game it's worth it to try.

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

Let's hope Marshall is our guy. He's got roots in SW Va. He could be a long term keeper.

JP

If he replaces Buzz with Marshall, I immediately make a Hokie Club donation.

Let's Go...

Honestly, Whit will probably need every penny we can come up with to make a serious offer to Marshall.

I found TKP after two rails from TOTS then walking back to my apartment and re-watching the 2012 Sugar Bowl. I woke up the next day with this username.

ACCNetwork monies have to go somewhere....

And if the rumors are true that we offered Buzz upwards of $4.5m and he turned it down, then we should have the budget to go big on Marshall.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

He's making 3.5 - about what Buzz was making. Plus this is 'Home' to Marshall, that is a plus..

Why not send Wilkins, Kabongo, Horne, and Bede also? We can throw in Dwayne Lawson and Drew Harris also.

VHokie

Leg for Dwayne Lawson reference in a bball thread

Am I the only one that thinks this WRT Lawson references?

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

I love it when someone can throw in a Lawson reference like this.

February..'96...the steak: ribeye, the whiskey:Lagavulin 16, the lady next to me: a bit**.....

Yeah, cause we all know he's not leaving.

At least we have football to fall back on, er...

I can imagine no more rewarding a career. And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worthwhile, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction:
“I served in the United States Navy"

KCCO

We have a structured settlement but we need a coach now? Call AD BABCOCK!! 877COACHNOW!!! 877COACHNOW!!!!

In the most creepy way possible, Buzz I just want to say:


#NoHardFeelingsAtAll #BusinessIsBusiness #GotBetter

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

I know, as do my bosses and coworkers, that once my fiancé finishes grad school there's a decent chance I'll be moving on to a new job closer to wherever she finds work. Does that mean I've put in any less effort than I would have otherwise? No. It's a business. And yes, I have to start new projects and take on new responsibilities on an almost daily basis that are going to fall to someone else to pick up one day.

I honestly don't understand the salt here.

VT Class of '12 (MSE), MVBone, Go Hokies!

Sort of depends on the business, but yes, people often put in less effort at their current job when they've decided they're headed somewhere else.

I don't think that's the case with Buzz, but it is a recognized phenomenon. I don't think Buzz would be capable of coaching less than 100%, because that's the thing he loves most of all. Apparently, just ahead of Texas.

I think where it gets shady is how many recruits from this year's class follow him to A&M. Then you have to question was he recruiting for VT or A&M this year.

I mean...we were the benefactor of a recruit that followed Buzz from Marquette to VT. Was it shady then too?

I found TKP after two rails from TOTS then walking back to my apartment and re-watching the 2012 Sugar Bowl. I woke up the next day with this username.

If Buzz knew he was going to VT when he recruited the player, then yes. I don't think that was the case.

Ah yes! The ole', when it benefits us it's fine but when it hurts us someone must be cheatin' logic.

That's not what my comment said at all. If he recruited players knowing he was coming to VT while at Marquette, then I think its shady. Same as if he had decided to go to A&M but was still recruiting for VT, knowing he would take the players to A&M.

I think its shady either way. I just don't think that VT was on Buzz's radar when he was recruiting at Marquette.

Do we really want to play that game?

Both Hill & Satchel Pierce were committed to play for Buzz at Marquette before he took the VT job.

We can't have it both ways. College basketball recruiting is so tied to the head coach it's not crazy that they'd follow him to College Station.

Its different if he knew he was going to A&M when he recruited them. There were no rumor that Buzz was in talks with VT when he recruited those kids to Marquette. And if he knew he was coming to VT when he recruited them, I would have a problem with that.

I can apparently have it both ways, because I thought it was shady then, but was OK with it because we benefitted from it and "Hey, everybody does it."

I still think it's a little shady, but don't hate the player, hate the game.

I think the distinction is intent.
1. *IF* Buzz was planning to be at Marquette at the time he recruited them to himself/Marquette, then he wasn't being shady. No split loyalties at the time he did the recruiting, and the players decided which way to go when the split happened.
2. *IF* Buzz was planning to hop to aTm while he recruited guys to himself/VT, then there were inherently split motivation. The potential for, or appearance of, conflict of interest in his use of VT resources to receipts guys to follow him to College Station.

Saying "it's just business" is something I don't think should apply to college athletics. Maybe I'm just being naive, but it's much more of a grey area to me.

*Also, I have no idea what your situation is nor do I mean any offense by this, but I doubt you are as important to your employer as a college coach is to their program. That being said, I understand people being upset about his departure, but not angry. Buzz quite literally course corrected our basketball program and the next coach has a chance to build on it.

stick it in, stick it in, stick it in!

The program is designed to make money. It absolutely is a business. That is why football and basketball are called revenue generating sports. How that particular line of business operates in the larger framework of the Athletic Department and School is another matter.

The players aren't regular employees as much as you want to keep comparing it to any other business.

I am not claiming players to be employees. In fact I have gone on record here that they are not employees many times. But that does not mean it is not a business.

Agreed and also that saying in general is annoying, often used to dismiss moral qualms of a situation which exist regardless of whether it's "just business"

877-COACHNOW!!!!!!!

Reach for Excellence!

VT Football: It'll get after ya!

Proud Hokie since 2004.

Having people reaching out to your coach about job offers is a side effect of being a successful program. If y'all don't want a break up with internet sources saying your coach is linked to other jobs, then Whit can bring in the next James Johnson and VT will be so terrible that we won't have that problem next time.

I found TKP after two rails from TOTS then walking back to my apartment and re-watching the 2012 Sugar Bowl. I woke up the next day with this username.

Since it's been referenced, this is what Thamel reported pertaining to a timeframe of a "year".

"As far back as last season, Buzz Williams has had an open invitation to return to Texas A&M."

That goes as far as saying Buzz knew the offer was on the table, and that's all.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Yes, but Buzz knowing it was on the table, and being keenly interested in it, is an interesting factor.

Couple things...

1. I'm not loving that Whit took it upon himself to confirm Buzz' departure, especially after the ECU hurricane pissing match/debacle (I understand those are very different situations, but still feels a little inconsistent and petty)

2. Goodman's snark about Buzz's implied job hopping, come on. I'm curious, anyone know what the average tenure of a P5 MBB coach is? So much talk about short leashes these days - if you're not winning by year 3 you're on the hot seat but you're jilting everyone when you're good after year 5? Can't have it both ways.

3. All this stuff about Buzz promoting his personal brand on social media rather than all VT all the time - that's just smart. Any coach today could have a down year and be out the door on the school's terms or a great year and get other offers. If you tie your social media presence too closely to your employer things can get tricky when things inevitably end one way or another. That doesn't mean Buzz was all about himself above VT. I don't believe for a second that Buzz's Bunch and #GetBetter are empty advertisements for some Buzz character hype. I think he's a genuine, thoughtful guy that believes what he preaches and also recognizes the world he's living in professionally.

Just because I go to a networking event doesn't mean I'm looking to jump ship from my current employer ASAP, but the days of retiring with a sweet pension from the company that hires you out of school are gone too, better to try to put yourself in a position to have options. It's a little unfair to not expect or recognize that other professions such as D1 college coaches can and should do the same for themselves.

I don't begrudge Buzz making what he feels is the best decision for him and his family. If you'd told any of us on day 1 this is how it would end we'd have taken that deal every time. It's easy after this season to think he could have been our Dean Smith, Krzyzewski, Boeheim or the basketball Beamer but that's not realistic anymore.

It hurts he's leaving but I wish Buzz well and will continue to be a fan. In Whit we trust.

1. Night and day difference with the ECU situation. Why would Whit be at all limited by Texas A&M? We have no contract with them. They were not negotiating with Whit. It was about them and Buzz. Whit making the announcement is his call to make for the future of VT basketball. If Buzz and A&M haven't announced then that's on them for waiting too long. If it's a done deal then we need a coach, no need to wait for them and to be frank zero reason why to extend that courtesy.

2. agreed. But as stated Goodman can be a blunt asshole in his reporting.

3. Absolutely agree. Any coach or player not promoting themselves is doing themselves a disservice and leaving money on the table when they get hired in their next job. I don't get the bitterness about this either. A great lesson for everyone to learn when moving into the workforce: The only person in your career that truly will look after you, is you.

Buzz always appeared to be promoting himself WAY more than VT. It's just his nature - he's a big personality.

It was the Buzz Williams show. But that's part and parcel with hiring a Buzz Williams, and I'm OK with that because VT did get a lot of success with him here.

#1 I'm fine with it, and there's a big difference between the ECA shenanigans (namely, nobody's life is threatened). Good on Whit for making the move.

#2 I dont think Buzz was job hopping, but I would like to see some metrics on voluntary and involuntary coaching changes over the last 10+ years

Some just enjoy the taste of sour grapes. Well stated

I don't know since Buzz hasn't tweeted it I think there's something going on with the negotiations. Sauces say he's staying.

Edit: Buzz just tweeted his goodbye. Watch out for a fall through on the contract Buzz to Coach Hokies in 2019-2020

Edit 2: notice the signature. We all know that's not Buzz's Signature

(add if applicable) /s

Sounds plausible, except for the team announcement and the scheduled news conference.

Believe what you want but my sauce is legit.

(add if applicable) /s

You are saying that Buzz is staying the sauce is legit?

Really? Even though Whit already announced it?

VHokie

No

(add if applicable) /s

You're doing great work in this thread

I found TKP after two rails from TOTS then walking back to my apartment and re-watching the 2012 Sugar Bowl. I woke up the next day with this username.

FWIW, I got the sarcasm. Leg for you.

"What kind of person would throw away a perfectly good dog?"

Sometimes I think it's so blatantly obvious that I don't put the /s this was definitely one of those times.

(add if applicable) /s

You keep doing you. If people can't understand the ironic sarcasm, that's on them. Also, your tag line is a pretty indicative clue ;)

"What kind of person would throw away a perfectly good dog?"

What was ironic about it actually?

VHokie

Just keep following Twitter, you'll see...

"What kind of person would throw away a perfectly good dog?"

I think you misunderstand the meaning of irony.

VHokie

How ironic.

(add if applicable) /s

Very ironic indeed.

"What kind of person would throw away a perfectly good dog?"

Oh, I didn't believe you. If you were serious, I was going to say that it was ridiculous.

VHokie

I'm so confused.

--
"It's time to go play Virginia Tech Football longer and harder than anybody else in America!!" -- Justin Fuente
"I put a brick in Sacksburg today." -- Cam Phillips

Finally! and thank god it's over.... No more multiple threads about the same thing! /s but kinda not really

Best of luck to Buzz, not hate from me in any way or form.

Done talking/reading about Buzz. Looking forward to who we replace him with! Hoping for Marshall but if not him, I give them time before making any judgements on them.

Bleeding burnt orange and chicago maroon

If you're reading the above post and thinking, "is this guy serious?!?," you can safely assume I'm not.

His new profile picture includes his family pictured over the state of Texas. Glad he gets to go home. Thank you coach, because of you, we #GotBetter, best of luck to you sir!

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

Doesn't get much more official than that.

No denying it. This hurts.

Just glad he chose to spend 5 years of his coaching career at VT. I don't think anyone else could have done what he has in 5 years at VT. I will look back on these 5 years very fondly. In the beginning I was hoping he would want to be at VT for the long haul, and I lived in denial for a while. But looking back that was never his plan and Whit very likely knew that. I think Whit would have liked to keep him on board as long as possible, but surely he was prepared for this. The trick is not to lose all the momentum that this program has. Buzz built it up in great fashion, but his departure could bring it collapsing back down. For Whit, the Buzz hire was the first step in building the program. Now he has to find the guy that can capitalize on the momentum, convince some of our current roster to stay, and continue winning. The announcement of a new hire cannot come soon enough!

--
"It's time to go play Virginia Tech Football longer and harder than anybody else in America!!" -- Justin Fuente
"I put a brick in Sacksburg today." -- Cam Phillips

His Twitter banner picture (or whatever it's called) is already updated with A&M stuff. This has been in the works for awhile judging on the graphics that magically appeared.

His last '#GetBetter' video during the NCAA run replaced orange and maroon graphics with maroon and grey.

I'm sure it was just a coincidence.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

That pisses me off even more. I've never liked his brand. I unfollowed him several years back on all social media. After comparing the video you referenced to the previous ones, I can't believe he was so focused on A&M during our tourney run that he changed the colors.

I think this is a stretch. We even wore grey and maroon uniforms DURING the tourney, didn't we? Both are indeed colors that VT uses.

VT Class of '12 (MSE), MVBone, Go Hokies!

Yeah, I'm sure it was just a coincidence he moved his personal brand to aTm coloring a few weeks before being hired by aTm

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Could have been. I think you guys are reaching because you're upset he's leaving.

Even if he did, how much time do you think Buzz really took away from his tourney prep to do that? Is this really an issue? I don't see it.

VT Class of '12 (MSE), MVBone, Go Hokies!

It's not a stretch. For 5 years the #getbetter logo was maroon and orange and then suddenly the last video he posted during the tournament was maroon and gray. It doesn't take a genius to realize the color change was intentional.

And again, even if it was, so what? I can take a logo into Microsoft Paint and change a color in about 20 seconds. I don't get why this has to be some big conspiracy.

But for the record, a quick trip through Buzz's twitter shows the #getbetter logo in variations of orange and white, black and white, white and maroon, and orange and maroon. And I only went back to December.

VT Class of '12 (MSE), MVBone, Go Hokies!

His last video at the end of the VT run ends with the start of his brand shift to aTm.

That's a bad look IMHO.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

It doesn't feel right to me. I personally think it's shady and reveals Buzz's real character as opposed to his social media persona.

Buzz IS all about subtlety, so it's hard to believe that it's coincidence.

A&M's colors are Maroon and White.

For what it's worth, that same logo from the video with the aforementioned color change is now in his A&M themed Twitter header. Not a crazy stretch.

Not that any of this really matters. I doubt that Buzz was playing in Photoshop while on the plane to DC.

Glad this is over. Good luck to Buzz. Now let's move on and get ready for Whit's next homerun

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

BATTERRRRR UP!

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

Since this is the first coach in my time I can remember leaving a big sport at Tech on their own is it normal Buzz hasn't made his own statement?

And there it is.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

scroll up.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Twitter algorithm got me.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Unpopular opinion- I don't blame him. If I were offered, at a minimum 25%, more to move from the 703 back to the 757 (home), I would take it in a heart beat. That's assuming he will make $3.5-$4M a year. Especially considering next year will likely be a rebuild with so many seniors and NAW.

My hope is the next coach can not only match the success Buzz had, but can build on it. Go Hokies!

Well, let's start looking forward. Is KBJ and Nolley staying or is Buzz going to rob the cupboard bare?

Well, let's start looking forward. Are KBJ and Nolley staying or are they going to evaluate their options for what's best for them professionally and personally?

Great question!

I found TKP after two rails from TOTS then walking back to my apartment and re-watching the 2012 Sugar Bowl. I woke up the next day with this username.

Since Buzz is going to be on an egg timer at Texas A&M, I think you KNOW the answer already.

I actually don't think we KNOW the answer already. You don't think the next coach plays into this?

VHokie

When A&M donors get frustrated in 4ish years can we start the #BringBackBuzz movement?

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

Ideally, our next coach will be prepping for the final four at that time.

Perfect, so we get a Final Four team and then Buzz back at the same time?

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

Why would we displace our coach who took us to the final four to get buzz back.....?

Because Duke is going to poach Wojo from us after our Final Four run obviously.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

The sarcasm was so strong I didn't even think to put the /s

Apologies

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

Sorry, I'm not good at this. Have a leg

NO heck no! do you take a cheating ex back?

"I don't know what a Hokie is, but God is one of them." - Lee Corso

TLDR, heard from a buddy that Wojo is our guy. Not sure if main tgt or actual next man up.

If you don't want to recruit clowns, don't run a clown show.

"I want to punch people from UVA right in the neck." - Colin Cowherd

Gross, they call it "Aggieland"....?

We call it "Home"

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

The more I read about Willard & Wojo, give me Willard over Wojo.

It says something that Seton Hall fans don't want Willard to leave, while Marquette fans wouldn't be sad to see Wojo go.

Eh, that could be for the same reason we are anxious about Buzz leaving. Seton Hall might have a harder time finding a replacement than Marquette--or at least that would be the perceptions of those fan bases individually.

Let's Go...

Also, Marquette fans probably expected WojoDukevski or whatever to leave sooner than later.

While I agree it says something, we should probably let Whit decide who is better, instead of letting the fans of opposing schools determine who our next coach is.

VHokie

Someone with knowledge walk me through what's happening on the ground today and the last couple of days regarding our current roster. Does Babcock call Blackshear, NAW (to a lesser extent bc of the likely NBA jump), Nolley, Bede, Wilkins, and Kabongo in for 1 on 1 sessions? Does he pitch to them his short list of replacements and urge them to forestall announcing their future plans prior to meeting the new coach?

Or will be start to see the players tweeting their futures out today as well?

Let's Go...

NAW is gone regardless. He's in the #10-#15 overall range on every mock I've seen.

"For those who have passed, for those to come, reach for excellence."

With that rating he needs to go pro. As much as I would love to have him back, he has nothing left to prove in college.

I would hope that anyone with a reasonable support system, would wait and see who is hired, talk to the new coach, then start to assess the situation, over the course of several weeks.

So, yes, all of the guys mentioned above will announce they are leaving on Twitter, probably by 2pm today.

Edit: I am joking. I really hope the recruits we have coming in, and all the current players return. I expect to lose some, but lets keep our fingers crossed on the new coach.

VHokie

Man there is a stupendous amount of salt on this place today.

The guy literally had ZERO reason to come here in the first place with the position we were in and built something thats in a hell of alot better of a place now. Some of the pettiness is sickening how spiteful people are because of who he is/was. Thankful he took a risk and brought way more success to the program than I ever felt was actually possible and did it the right way which means alot. He put the kids he coached first and made something out of nothing I wish him nothing but the best for what he did for VT.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

While your post is true, I disagree that there is a "stupendous amount of salt." There is pretty much a reasonable and expected amount of salt.

Let's Go...

No, you misunderstand. No frustration is allowed. We're not allowed to criticize Buzz at all because he was our savior and above reproach.

/s

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Some VT coaches enjoy that.. IIWII (haha)

Im more or less trying to express that all Ive seen since the start of the week is people trying to dig and find anything to hold over his head instead of seeing this as an opportunity to reflect on overall a masterpiece on bringing a program in the dumps to relevant. Feels like a high school breakup with all the stuff people are accusing him simply because they cant see that we are in a way better place now and have a good shot at getting a good coach and continuing on the upward trend. Guess its unreasonable to hope for a more mature reaction from some people which is a shame in the end its all just a game.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

The guy literally had ZERO reason to come here in the first place with the position we were in...

Uh....did you read his contract at all? He had millions of reasons to come, not to mention job security in writing, and more earning potential outside of his VT coaching than most schools would have allowed. Oh, all while doing it with low expectations and ACC competition. Our situation opened the door for him to draft his dream contract. The fact that he proved his prowess as a coach is outside of that.

He didn't donate his time as charity, it was a business decision.

I do agree that he took a risk and is benefiting from the rewards

I think it's more of Buzz seizing an opportunity.

He saw where VT basketball was, knew what he could do with it, was ready to leave Marquette, and damn if he didn't come here and do it.

It does show that Buzz can do the math, all around.

While I wish Buzz would've stayed, I always suspected he was only here as long as Med Hill and to a lesser extent J-Rob graduated. If it wasn't for Med's redshirt year this may have happened earlier.

That said I'm grateful for what Buzz has done for the program and at the very least his unique personality made it possible for our list of realistic candidates this time around to be a lot higher quality then when JJ was fired.

Yes,that's the Hokie Bird riding a camel. Why'd you ask?

Is Willard a good coach?

How many Apocalypse Now references can we make in one season if he gets hired?

Is Willard a good coach?

He's made 4 consecutive trips to the NCAA tournament. His teams have finished no worse than 4th in the Big East each year, with 3 third place regular season finishes. In 2 of those 4 seasons, the eventual national champion played in the same conference.

Over the last 4 years his teams have made the tourney, at least half of the Big East was good enough to find their way into the tournament in 3 of those seasons (until this year, when only 4 of 10 Big East teams made the tourney).

So yeah, he's a very good coach in one of the seven best basketball conferences. He might take a couple years to find his footing in the ACC but he'd keep VT competitive.

Remember when you were young?

Shine like the sun

"That kid you're talking to right there, I think he played his nuts off! And you can quote me on that shit!" -Bud Foster

Thanks. I hadn't listened to that album in a long time.
I let this run in its entirety while looking through this whole thread and a few others.
That helped me deal with this. I'm still bummed, but more hopeful now.

Pain is Temporary, Chicks Dig Scars
Glory is Forever, Let's Go Hokies!!

Once upon a Time, many moons ago, I was bored and I turned to my friend and asked if they wanted to go to a Tech basketball game that night. My friend has never been to one before and really didn't care about basketball at all. Our tickets were $7 for the both of them. I've been going to Virginia Tech basketball games for over a decade now but that was the first one for him. We showed up and watched Buzz's group of players lose...to Alabama State. No not Alabama. Alabama State. It didn't surprise me. After all I've been watching really terrible basketball in Cassell for a long time now so my expectations were low. And my friend didn't care because, who cares about Virginia Tech basketball right?

Ever since then my friend and I have been season ticket holders in Virginia Tech basketball. My closet has more VT basketball shirts in it than football shirts. I donate more to basketball than football. Hell at this point the football season is just an excuse to go to lot 18 and day drink with my family while I impatiently wait for basketball season to start. None of that should have happened at a "football school". But it did. Because of Buzz.

To watch this team of guys who lost against Alabama State grow and develop into great players and men has been tremendous. I've seen Seth Allen start his VT career as one of the biggest liabilities on the team to straight up cold blooded assassin. I've seen 5 turn into the all time assist leader. It's been a real joy to watch this team transform into a Sweet Sixteen team, and not just a Sweet Sixteen team that lucked into it, but one that legitimately belonged that deep into the Dance.

Thanks for everything Buzz.

I found TKP after two rails from TOTS then walking back to my apartment and re-watching the 2012 Sugar Bowl. I woke up the next day with this username.

It's been a real joy to watch this team transform into a Sweet Sixteen team, and not just a Sweet Sixteen team that lucked into it, but one that legitimately belonged that deep into the Dance.

Getting off-topic, but this was what made last week's loss so tough - we belonged. We could play 10 games against Duke, and win 50% of the time. Shit, we might have been a final four team with CC and Nolley in the line up.

Twitter me

1. Buzz took the job when it was an absolute garbage dumpster fire job and he had no reason to. He did that and turned it into an NCAAT regular in 5 years. We should be very grateful of that.

2. Buzz flirting with jobs every offseason and spending an entire year planning to leave for Texas A&M, and leaving the cupboard bare as a result, does not make this program "fixed" or on a new level than before. We won 2 tournament games in his entire time here and they were both this year, as far as our national perception goes we are still a historically bubble/non tournament team that happened to be good this year. We were never even ranked until this year under Buzz. We could very easily be right back to the James Johnson years if things don't go right here. It was a fun 5 years but hailing Buzz as this guy who "saved the program" or did what Beamer did for football is a bit much. He could have been if he stayed, but he didn't, and right now we're at a fork in the road where we can continue the momentum he started or go right back to the gutter. As far as I'm concerned, Buzz was a hired gun who gave us a good 5 years but he hasn't built anything permanent here.

3. On point number 2, much like how Buzz was all about his own brand and not the school, I think anybody expecting ANYONE of note on the roster to stay for 2019-20 is just being blindly optimistic. Sitting out a year has never stopped players in this situation from transferring before, I don't understand why it keeps being brought up as such a deterrent for them. And on top of that it's easier to get a waiver to play immediately than it's ever been. I not only expect KJB gone, but Bede and Nolley too. Those guys were all out-of-state guys who came to play for Buzz. Would be shocked if any of those three stay and anybody else on the roster leaving wouldn't surprise me at all.

It may be time for the KABONGO DYNASTY (simply because he's the only one left)

I found TKP after two rails from TOTS then walking back to my apartment and re-watching the 2012 Sugar Bowl. I woke up the next day with this username.

Kabongo Dynasty....sounds like a good band name.
Not as good as Urban Otter however....

VHokie

Every undergraduate on our roster is from out of state. Do you believe we will have zero returning players next year?

No, but I think anybody who already carved out a serious role or was highly sought-after as a recruit will. That is KJB, Nolley, Bede, and maybe Wilkins (but less likely than the others). At least for those first three, they all just strike me as guys who probably came for Buzz more than because they loved VT...but then again I don't really know anything, I'm just basing that on the fact that they all were highly recruited from far away and that Buzz always seemed to be selling himself more than the university. Maybe I'm wrong and they love Blacksburg but the signs don't really point that way to me.

Player retention is 100% dependent on the hire of the new coach. He will impress some, not others. But his recruiting skills start with being able to retain the existing team.

That is also why it is important that the hire be soon.

Good story. I remember watching Bimbo Coles, and Wally Lancaster play against Pervis "Never Nervous" Ellison, when Louisville was a powerhouse and we were in the Metro Conference. Looking back....the Metro conference was pretty good for basketball. Louisville, Florida State, Memphis St, Cincinnati, Southern Miss, South Carolina, etc.
I didn't realize VT was in the Metro from 1979 to 1995...great memories in Cassell back then.

That being said, my biggest takeaway, from your comments: "To watch this team of losers.."

VHokie

Yikes! I didn't catch how that losers comment came across. I changed it to "lost against Alabama State"

I found TKP after two rails from TOTS then walking back to my apartment and re-watching the 2012 Sugar Bowl. I woke up the next day with this username.

I knew what you meant...i was just busting on you. It did read funny.

VHokie

The guy just can't help himself from throwing pop shots at VT throughout that mess of an article

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Remember when I told everyone that they wouldn't like how the national media perceives the VT job?

Well, here you go.

Yeah well the national media can suck a dick. They were wrong 5 years ago and they're wrong now. Doesn't matter how much circle jerking they want to do, they're still going to be wrong.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

The National media probably wants to marry Bud Foster, f#$k Wojo, and date Fuente...

VHokie

They're only f#$king Wojo to get to K. Everyone knows this

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Right...and there is bodycam footage to support this!

VHokie

I mean the fathead mural of Shishefskee in the background was a little creepy, but to each their own, I guess

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Marry, f**k, and kill is way better.

Chick Patty w/ Cheese

He started out his "career" working for a UNC blog, what do you expect?

I'd be a happy camper if he's right

The same Goodman that said Duke would blow us out by double digits and that it wouldn't even be close in the Sweet 16. So I think we know where he leans on that, this dude is just pulling from connections he knows Whit has to Cronin I don't buy it

Go for it

I'm salty. And it isn't at Buzz. I think he did what he did. End of story.

I'm salty because I started to hope that VT was becoming the place. A place where great coaches would come, provide stability, mentor players, and have no reason to leave.

It hurts to know we aren't that place yet. But we're getting there. Whoever the next coach up is, I hope he finds that VT is the place.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

VHokie

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

I laughed at this harder than I should have

This is the best reaction in this thread

"That kid you're talking to right there, I think he played his nuts off! And you can quote me on that shit!" -Bud Foster

I mean we have the budget to pay a coach top 25 money and we have shown that basketball can be very popular in Blacksburg. I think it's feasible that we could get a good coach for more like 10 years instead of 5

It's time to move on. This message board is cathartic for a lot of us because Hokie fans are so passionate about Virginia Tech sports that it gives us an outlet or chance to express our thoughts. I am glad we had Buzz for 5 years, but I've been tired of the constant speculation every year of him leaving, so I'm glad it's finally done. I think the evidence has shown that Buzz is for Buzz and his family, and to some extent his players. I'm sure every other sports coach loves their own players so I don't for one minute think Buzz is unique in that regard. Buzz is his own agent and he only has one client - himself. He writes his own contracts and we all know that his contract between TA&M was done a long time ago - if not because of a source, then because if you've been paying attention the last five years - you'd know that Buzz is a planner and doesn't do anything off the cuff. Buzz is the ultimate self promoter. I think in his first week after being hired by VT he was on ESPN promoting himself (not really VT). If we gained any improved reputation, then that was what rubbed off of Buzz's reputation. His twitter is about himself, not Virginia Tech. Kind of reminds me of A. Bitter and his silly twitter feed (I mean feud) with Roanoke Times. Was Bitter working for the paper or himself? While I'm glad we had good basketball teams the last 3 years, and we beat UVA, Duke, UNC, and other ACC teams often, I am pretty annoyed that Buzz is leaving VT's cupboard so bare. I think whoever is our next Head Coach will have to rebuild the program and recruiting, since I think most of our recruiting the last few years was based entirely off of Buzz and the relationships he built. So, yes depending on who we get, we'll have to start over or at least reboot recruiting, which could potentially set us back a year or more - unless we make a major splash hire that is a better recruiter than Buzz (big question mark).

I really don't care who we hire as next head coach, as long as the new coach promotes Virginia Tech instead of himself. I'd like to win, but after Buzz I realize we need someone that has VT's best interest.

HH4455

I wonder if the TAMU players know about Buzz's BB Boot Camp?

"Hey Bud, you wont have to hold the opponent to 17 points anymore."

They Will Soon! Muhahahaha

Looking forward to that head coach announcement so we can all forget about this thread.

And I guess analyze the hire too.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

Info alert:

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

Boooo!!! What can we do if we don't have rampant speculation and unverified leaks. /s sort of

On s serious note, that makes me think, not employing a search firm, that they have their man.

Yeah, he has top two lined up. Doesn't want to announce until contract is agreed and the coach has informed his old school and team. The right way to do it. (not besmirching anybody).

Said the athletic dept. won't be commenting after today and he's confident there will be no leaks.

So basically Whit is confirming that VT isn't aTm.

Is it basketball season yet?

Glad we have a pro as an AD. Only can help us in our search.

Well, even after we settle on our guy, there will be the required background checks and so forth, which I think was part of the delay with the Buzz announcement, so my guess is end of next week or so at the earliest for any smoke coming from the athletic dept. chimneys.

Take the shortest route to the ball and arrive in bad humor.

There is no way they can wait until end of next week. Thats crazy talk. We need to move and we need to move now.
Before the end of the day tomorrow.....

VHokie

Being a CA resident, I was lucky enough to watch our team whip some butt in San Jose and Whit was walking around socializing with the VT section a bit before the second round game. Guy is a total class act and at least presents a straight up legit, I crush it, do not worry about it persona. From what I saw and read year out, we are lucky to have him.

Hiring him turned out to be a LOT more important than any individual coach.

In Whit we trust.

That said, I am hearing he's on the very short list to run the ACC when Swofford retires

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

I've heard that before, too.

Let's just hope that if that ever happens, there's a good succession plan, and that both our football and basketball coaches and staffs are rock solid.

I don't believe it. He is smart, engaging, charismatic, makes good decisions. Sounds like the opposite of an ACC commissioner.

True, but spot on what an ACC Commissioner should be.

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

UVA is a great place to take a dump.

Buzz who? As both a Marquette and Hokie grad, I have a unique perspective on Buzz. First, I do like his charitable efforts. He sets a good example with those efforts, but, as someone earlier posted, Buzz is about Buzz. He is a good coach and gets maximum effort from his players. He gets them to commit to the program, the school, and their future. Unfortunately, his words of commitment are hollow when he doesn't exhibit that same commitment himself by bailing on both MU and Tech. He had a decent run the last 3 yrs and turned Tech into a "good" program, not great. Like at Marquette, he never won the big game when it mattered most and he's leaving the program a little lacking in talent. Between the two schools, Buzz's teams only won 1 regular season title and never a conference tournament. At Marquette, he had multiple NBA players, several that he inherited and only made one elite 8. When the recruiting was down, he moved on to Tech. Contrary to the article, he is not even the most successful Hokie coach. That would be Bill Foster who at least won an NIT championship. I wish no ill for Buzz, but, time to move on and hopefully convince our guys to stay Hokies. I would hate to see Blackshear or others leave with him. After all, it is the players we support. GO HOKIES!

That would be Bill Foster who at least won an NIT championship.

I know it's apples and oranges in a way, but there's a large group of fans that feel that the Sweet 16 (or even the Round of 32) is a higher achievement than any success in the NIT.

Other than that, I agree completely!

If you're reading the above post and thinking, "is this guy serious?!?," you can safely assume I'm not.

I don't think it's worth starting a new thread for this, but FWIW Buzz just posted a picture of him inside Texas A&M's football stadium with the double dolla bill sign and the caption "As I stopped by Texas A&M Football, I had to pay proper respect to Johnny Manziel" with the hashtag #MoneySZN.

Yep, he just lost all of my respect. I was going to unfollow his page yesterday after the 16th post about Texas A&M, but that solidified it. Goodbye Buzz.

"What kind of person would throw away a perfectly good dog?"

Yea that was in incredibly bad taste

He's getting lit up, even by Aggies fans. Incredibly poor taste indeed.

"What kind of person would throw away a perfectly good dog?"

I think this officially concludes the Buzz Show at VT. Now we can get back to the regularly scheduled programming.

#getRicher

His social media is annoying even when he is your team's coach!

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Wonder what the buyout is for each party.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

Well, at least it was higher than the originally-reported 3.5 million. I'm glad he stuck it to them a little bit.

More than Tech pays its football coach. Soo yea that's fun.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Buckle up. It's going to be a bumpy night.

$3.8 is a tad high for basketball, but if we're going to field Top 25 teams in two sports, we'll be paying some good coaches in two sports. I don't anticipate we'll be paying our basketball coach more than our football coach, though. Texas A&M sure isn't.

To some degree, the coach will also have to want to coach at VT.

For awhile we were paying Buzz more than Beamer.. but that was a special case.

I'd say that worked out alright.

By the time the escalator takes full affect buzz will be at 4.4 mil. I don't think it's coincidence that his pay to start out (3.8) puts him tied with the tenth highest paid coach in America (beilein at Michigan) and by the time his contract runs out would today put him at the 3rd highest in the country only below the rat and cal. I would say that Buzz made out very well here....especially if the buyout isn't crazy, which with buzz holding all the cards I'm sure it's not

The man does his homework. He certainly left when his stock was at it's peak, before the regression we certainly would have seen with the departure of key players.

Hey guys let's push Whit to join the SEC so we can play Buzz every year in basketball, man that would be hilarious

Go for it

Wasn't sure where to put this, but this thread made sense.

Made me both roll my eyes and laugh. If by "stayed off social media" he means immediately changed his branding and tweets hourly...

#MoneySzn

Who is this "Buzz" character I keep seeing mentioned...?