Rank these Whit Babcock hires in terms of importantance (however you define it) and provide rational for your thoughts.
Men's basketball coach I
Football coach I
Men's basketball coach II
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Hmmm the new softball head coach might have something to say about this. Also Robie can have a word as well
Really? The softball coach? Really? Thats ludicrous.
Look at the results so far
Yep, softball has really put VT athletics on the map
Softball's great, man. Whatchu talkin about...
On another note, TIL that Miami doesn't have a softball team. That's extremely surprising to me.
They're 30-5 right now. People should start paying more attention to them
How are we 30-5 and ranked 24th?!
My guess is RPI (28th).
That kind of illustrates my point...in general, people don't care about softball
Ohhhh its all about football and men's basketball. There is many sports that are exciting and great to watch but no one cares because alot of people in America just wanna watch 2 sports.
Pretty much, in terms of importance of a coaching hire, it's gonna be between football and basketball.
I'll just say, I agree with you, I enjoy more than just the two big ones, but in terms of importance to the school, none of the other outweigh, or come close to outweighing football and basketball
Yeah maybe but I just want people to know that all of Whit's hirings are great so far
Tough question - I think Men's Basketball Coach II has the most riding on it and therefore is the most important hire. I was really hoping Buzz would stay 2 more years to really give our basketball team the consistent presence in rankings and NCAA Tournament attendance (and success) to really change the program long-term. I think if Whit can hire the right basketball coach now, I think that has the potential to define VT basketball as a top 20 basketball program for a long time. I think that would be the biggest impact of Whit's career as AD at VT so far.
That being said, this hire wouldn't be as important if not for Buzz's success, so it's a tough tough question.
Football is the cash cow and affords is the ability to make every other hire. I'm going to be very interested to see how anyone justifies anything but FB #1
Otter coach I?
Basketball coach II. The challenges associated with football (attendance, CTE, length of games, cost of attendance, lessening popularity) will continue to grow. The ACC is a basketball conference first and foremost and always has been and probably always will be. EVERYONE watches March Madness. Almost no one watches Bowl games outside of the playoff. Tech has a chance to really grow into the ACC basketball culture and grow their national footprint. A successful basketball program will help the football program and the university as a whole.
Men's golf. He has to replace hall of fame alumni coach that has been there 30+ years.
Yeah that's gonna be a mountain to climb
Golf coach is Whits most important hire?
Yeah....
Rational?
Retaining Bud Foster.
Bud could've easily bolted after Beams left but Whit worked his magic.
Absolutely, but I think Fuente deserves some credit for that as well.
Men's Basketball II
Football I
Men's Basketball I
I'll be that guy. This basketball hire is way more important based on where the basketball team is right now. If Whit can nail this hire then we have a chance to be a consistent threat to win the ACC. Whereas hiring Fuente was important but the bar was also lower given Frank's last few seasons. It felt like we could only go up. Now if we get to a point where he's hiring Football II... that'll be a much bigger deal.
Pretty much this. BBII is the biggest to date, but if there arises a need for an FBII, that will be bigger.
Football brings in 90% of the athletic revenue, so football coach.
Football easily. I know we had a much more established program so it wasn't the same as far as needing to continue the success like basketball II will be But replacing a legend is always tough. The fact whit kept the culture and identity of the team that had been cultivated over 30ish years is remarkable.
Football I, next.
Football. He had to replace a legend at the school.
This right here.
It was football. Basketball 1 was low stakes. He nailed it but because of that he made Basketball 2 more important. Football though is our lifeblood and everyone agreed at the time that how the transition went down was as good as we could have hoped. The jury is still out on Fuente long term but if Whit screwed that one up--brought in an outsider, lost Bud, and we lost right away--he may be in luke-warm water himself already. At least with the fan base.
His replacement if this basketball hire is outta whack and if his football coach can't win 11 games in a regular season. Also, if he can convince ECU to cancel their away games in Blacksburg.
All I'm asking is that he resurrect James Naismith, is that too much to ask? No.
I said no.
FYI - Naismith is the only coach in KU history with a losing record. He wasn't a good coach. We appreciate his invention very much, however. If you want to resurrect a KU coach, make it Phog Allen - the guy who coached Dean Smith and Adolph Rupp. (That's right, UNC and Kentucky, the guys you named your buildings after are Kansas alums. Tell me more about your "history".)
Facts, nice. Ok how about Wooden? I'm not tied to Kansas coaches in particular. Looks like you have a bit more loyalty there
Raise your hands if you know who each one of these people are
John Szefc
Kenny Brooks
Justin Fuente
John Sung
Pete D'Amour
Sergio Lopez Miro
Jill Wilson
Tony Robie
Buzz Williams
Now put your hands down you liars. Every single one of these hires has been equally important in elevating tech on a programmatic basis. Whit has made good on his role in lifting up the entire program, not just football or basketball.
Are you calling me a liar?
here you go (all coaches): Baseball, Women's Basketball, Football, Women's Lax, Softball, Swimming & Diving, Volleyball, Wrestling, Basketball.
i follow ALL Hokie sports post-graduation because Whit's hiring has been a game-changer for our olympic sports. I follow most of those coaches on Instagram/Twitter because I like to track our school's progress. I gotta say, we're doing damn well...
I love keeping up with all the sports
Kenny Brooks has been at Tech for three seasons. He's never won more than 37.5% of ACC games. He's never guided the team to the NCAAT. Argue "elevated" all you want, but the data isn't there to praise every hire.
It was more of an argument that no hire is more important than the others. But yea Kenny is on the hot seat
Thank You, Biggest miss on the WBB program. At over $500,000 plus a year !! I hope we see WBBll here soon.
Does anyone else think it's odd that several
of his daughters play on the team? I mean I know it happens fairly often, but from what I remember their HS stats weren't amazing.
No lots of coaches in all sports at all levels have their kids on their team. One of his kids is the 6th man this past season. Good 3pt shooter.
But two kids at the same time with a terrible ACC record? I could be very wrong, but it just doesn't sit right with me.
Unless they're objectively worse than other players who would get scholarships/minutes, it doesn't bother me.
If they want to play for him and he's willing to risk his career on it, that's his prerogative.
Except we are paying him to win and he's not doing that. I had some friends play for VT women's hoops and his daughters are no where near previous players.
I agree with you. We certainly are paying him to win, which is why I said that if he is willing to risk his career on his daughters playing, that's his prerogative. Every coach is ultimately held responsible for the players they choose.
Your last point, that they are nowhere near previous players does concern me. If his daughters would not/could not make the team, get a scholarship (assuming they have them), and play minutes for any other neutral coach, then I do have a problem with that.
Kendyl set records for 3 point shooting already and is in top 10 in school history as just a sophomore.
I'll concede. But I still don't like it. Maybe it's because I was really excited about Brooks and so far he's been a huge letdown.
Kendyl was on a state champion team in high school. She is a decent player but Kenny definitely needs to get the team to play better defense.
She might be good enough to play at VT without her dad being the coach, but being on a state championship team in high school does not equate to being a D1 athlete. If that logic were true, I wouldn't have school loans.
All but the last guy, never heard of him...what kinda name is Buzz?
You might know him as Brent.
Important in their individual sports.....but not nearly as important to the university as a whole. Money talks...
Just listen to Buzz.....#moneyszn
The next one. It's always the next one.
Fuente, because as others have said, football is the cash cow of the Athletic Dept. Getting that one wrong would/could damage football, the entire department, and Whit's tenure itself.
Buzz's replacement is next because the basketball program is out of the depths, and we definitely don't want to go back down that rabbit hole.
Buzz is third because, really, we had no where to go but up at that point. But Whit did such a phenomenal job with that one that he set the bar so far for every other hire since.
You nailed it.
Fuente is #1 because that's the only hire that could actually jeopardize Whit's job security. If we win 4-6 games this year, not only will some people (rightfully) be calling for Fuente's job, they'll also be questioning if Whit is the really the right AD.
If Tech basketball had sucked the last 4 years, I literally wouldn't have cared, as long as the football team won. Now that we've had some success in hoops, I'd like to see that continue, so in my opinion that makes Basketball II # 2 in importance.
Football coach I - Though Beamer's later years experienced a slide, VT established itself as a solid program. Football is also a major revenue generator.
Men's basketball coach I - After the Greenberg area and the head-scratching JJ era making an impact hire in basketball was necessary lest VT completely fall of the map in that sport. For all intents and purposes, VT basketball was all but dead.
Men's basketball coach II - I know we are all concerned about who replaces Buzz and with good reason. However, Buzz proved something that nobody knew or maybe even thought was possible. You could win at VT and make the NCAAT on a regular basis. That's not to diminish the importance of the next coach but taking over from Buzz is taking over from JJ.
This is the correct answer.
As much as I love the Buzz hire and think the next basketball coach is massively important for the future, the hiring of Fuente was significantly more important than anyone else.
1) Fuente
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2) Buzz
3) BBall Coach II
4) Everyone Else
Though many are probably tempted to say Basketball II, that's probably because of recency bias.
Football is definitely the answer. More revenue and football is significantly more ingrained into the ID of VT than Basketball. I know when I was enrolled, the Men's BB was a far-gone afterthought and I'm sure that for many others it was the same.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love for the next Men's BB coach to be a homerun hire and for VT to continue to have a relevant and even formidable program, but I think its far more important for the Football program to continue to be strong.
I agree with the others about MBB2 coach. That person has to continue and improve on the momentum...and based on this graphic, it'll be a tall order
Buzz's replacement
Because basketball is on the verge of being a revenue sport for us that can exist without football propping it up. That would be huge for us to have multiple sports that make us money throughout the year and should help us across the board.
I highly doubt this, especially with salary climb happening. I don't see basketball at Tech ever being fully self paying.
Why do you think Tech's Nike Deal is so poor, and UNC who can't play football worth a lick, gets huge money?
The little guy dunking the basketball on their football uniforms went to UNC
Kansas has a $190M Deal with Adidas and it isn't for football
Do you in all honesty think Tech will ever be near two of the winningest programs in basketball history in terms of revenue?
I'm saying that for everyone who says football is the cash cow aren't fully considering the financial impact a top notch basketball team can create on revenue. Shoe deals are big and basketball is a huge factor there.
We are 10+ years away from becoming a program Nike would dump money into for basketball. That just doesnt mean tech, that means any non-blue blood. I would say even then we'd be like Maryland at best. How good has MSU been been at both football and Basketball and they aren't viewed like Michigan is. How many schools have been final four in basketball and football? ain't this century: MSU, Oregon, Ohio State, and Oklahoma. Not sure where I was going with that but Basketball is going to be even harder with the one and done cause we can get a Mike Vick to play for multiple years to help put us on the map.
Jordan?
Football
Basketball II
Basketball I
Football is King, the biggest money maker, and what got us here. It's a fan favorite, and Fuente still has a lot to prove. Fuente was arguably one of the hottest properties when he was hired, and stepped up to replace a legend. Many aren't giving him the time he needs in order to be successful, and with mack brown coming online in UNC, that job is only going to get tougher. Let's just hope Fuente turns out to be the coach I think he is.
Basketball II is even more important than Basketball I. Getting to the Sweet Sixteen was cool, and it was nice having a team that was fun to watch, but it's history now. Winning a few tournament games reset the counter of "number of years since we've been there", but did we get an ACC championship? A regional NCAA trophy? The big stuff is still ahead of us, and you know the rest of the ACC is thinking "Hey, you were decent with Buzz, but he's at A&M now."
FOOTBALL
Any other answer is because people are biased based upon recent events. Most Hokies LIVE for football season. Football season is why most people donate to the Hokie Club. Football has a rich tradition. Football brings in most of the money. Football helped grow the school in the early 2000's. Should I keep going?
Basketball I. Took a broken program back to relevancy and made the basketball world take us seriously. If that hire is a bust then we have a lot less leverage for the Baketball II hire.
I'm gonna say Football I was less important because there was a large supply of good candidates. If we don't get Fuente it's probably Dino Babers or someone else who'll end up successful. Basketball there were hardly any good candidates and Whit executed an absolute coup stealing Buzz
I see a lot of people talking about how football is the cash cow and whatnot. Two years ago I would have agreed, but Fuente's teams have gotten worse each season and now we are, more or less, where we were when Beamer's career ended with regards to results while generating a surplus in 2018. I guess I just feel like that hire looks a little lackluster now but we're still fine money wise (though I'm sure giving and ticket sales will be down this season).
Meanwhile, basketball is trending upwards and a solid hire here can carry that momentum forward.
basketball is trending up, but what kind of revenue does it really generate? I'd be interested to see how they stack up at Tech, how they have historically, and how they stack up at a true "basketball school." My gut tells me we get a lot more bang for our buck by returning to football prominence than by elevating the basketball program. But I'm totally ok with making it a "why not both?" situation.
You're right, there's a lot more bang for our buck in football. But my point is (and like Alum said above) that we have a huge chance to start generating revenue for basketball. All while our last football hire ended up being not a home run hire so far (and we're fine).
Determining if a hire was good/bad is completely different from the importance of the hire.
Depends on what's most important to someone. Revenue and national profile Football I
Best chance to win a team national title Lacrosee, softball and baseball.
Since we now have a NATTY, it's got to be wrastlin'
In all seriousness:
Men's Basketball II
Football I
Men's Basketball I
Order of importance:
Fuente was the most important hire Whit made. Replacing Beamer, staffing the athletic dept's 'cash cow' (for lack of a better term), etc. I think this Basketball hire is more important than Buzz simply because the bar has been raised. Make a good hire, and you have the chance to solidify VT as a top 25 basketball program. Make a bad hire, and we sit at/return to a top 40-60 program (depending on how bad the hire is).
Basketball is fun....but we're a football school. Football drives the bus. I think I'd take a 5 Star QB over a new great hire as a basketball coach.
It's going to be Football II that will define his tenure.
You think Whit will be at Tech that Long?
I hope he's still here in 2021.
/s (sort of...?)
He's either going to turn the program around and get poached like Buzz, or he'll keep doing what he's doing and he'll get fired.
I don't think anybody wants him to be mediocre-enough so neither happens.
Or we believe that this is his forever school? Ok...
I dont believe that this is his forever school, but I don't see him going just anywhere. I just dont see USCw or PSU poaching him, but I worry about Gary Paterson retiring, or Lincoln Riley going to the pros.
question for you guys after reading andy bitters Q&A on the athletic. not trying to break community guidelines because its behind a paywall but I don't think I am with just posting the question and not the answer if I am please remove admin.
With our athletic department budget, can we consistently be competitive in basketball and football, or will we see a see-saw of success for each, where one team succeeds, the coach gets hired away and the rebuild process begins again?—Clay W.
this question really had me thinking... would I instead of going all in on a new basketball coach and paying a ton of money rather have that money invested into our football program, I realize currently were not looking to hire anyone because we just filled some holes in the staff but from here going forward. I know whit has to think in terms of all athletics but the better football does the more money we have for other sports. allocating money and prioritizing is a huge part of whits job and I trust him to do whats best for us in all sports. but whats best isn't always what us the fans agree on.
my question I guess is would you guys settle for back to avg/below avg basketball to go back to above avg/ almost elite football again. would you trade bottom of the ACC in hoops for playoff football? (essentially the opposite of LOLUVA at this point)
As exciting as this basketball season was, I would make that trade. That's obviously with the assumption that more $$$ to football would guarantee success, which we know isn't always the case. Realistically, I think Whit really has to continue the balance game and hope that over time we can steadily improve fundraising to afford both programs to be viable.
Every single time.
UNC has gone 1-7 in ACC football each of the last two years, so that's probably the better comparison.
I would take playoff football 7 days a week and twice on Sunday, but realistically with such a huge gap between Bama/Clemson and the rest of FBS, a good basketball hire will give a better opportunity to make a run at a F4 or possible Natty because all it take is one game and one hot streak.
I'm of the mindset that since Buzz's hire was required for the next basketball coaching hire to matter so much in the first place, it's:
Bball I
Bball II / Football (even)
I only put Football near the bottom because up to this point, Fuente has yet to achieve enough to really show us that he was the right choice as far as long-term success goes. If he can't turn it around in the next 1-3 years, the end result could be a net-negative.
Based on the circumstances at the time of each hire....
Football I
Basketball II
Basketball I
Whit had to replace Frank. There is no one more important to this school than Frank, so picking is replacement is far and away the most important. Basketball two is second because of how good basketball 1 was. Unless Whit hires coach K, Buzz is easily the best hire of the three, and because he was a home run, his replacement is that much more important. When Buzz was hired the fanbase didn't care too much about basketball.
Football Coach II, Men's Basketball Coach II, Football Coach I, Men's Basketball Coach I
1. We had zero expectations for Men's basketball which is why it was so low initially
2. Replacing a fading legend was important
3. Now that we have accomplished something noteworthy in Basketball we will expect an excellent hire to replace Buzz
4. We are still a football school and I do not have confidence in Fuente too get his ish together based on the last few seasons so Whit will really need to knock his replacement hire out of the park especially if he wants Donation$
Football Coach I
Basketball Coach II
Basketball Coach I
At the end of the day, this is a football school. Had Buzz somehow made a miracle run and gotten us our first national championship maybe that would've changed things, but until that happens our athletic department and our athletic reputation is lead by the football program.
That said, not very many people cared about basketball before Buzz was hired. Whit knocked it out of the park but he didn't have to to make fans happy. He just had to hire someone better than JJ. But now, because Buzz did so well, people do care about Hokie Basketball! Now there's pressure to hire the right guys not just a guy. If Whit doesn't get this right we will notice.
Football Coach II, if this season goes south.