I can't imagine that "we've had players selected in each of the last 25 drafts" has that much of an effect on a recruit's decision. Sure, it sucks not having as many recent entrants into the NFL, but taking one year off of the draft isn't going to do lasting harm to the program.
I suppose you could say the same about losing to UVA or missing a bowl, but as a fan those two things matter to me much more, especially nowadays when I've all but stopped watching the NFL entirely.
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If you are a high level P5 program you should be sending multiple players to the NFL every single year. The reason 25 years was our "streak" is because prior to the 1993 season VT football was nothing. Then we became a real college football name brand, going to bowl games, winning conference titles, producing NFL players.
To be back to early-90s level as a program is sobering. If we aren't sending players to the NFL, then every other goal as a program is not possible. Period. Hell, even UVA, ODU and James Madison had players selected in the 2019 draft.
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We had a number of years during the streak where we had only a single late-round pick, and we were generally able to "bounce back" from that predicament each time. We're also fresh off our worst season by far since 1992.
I see it less of an indictment of our return to pre-1993 VT Football, and more an indictment of our lack of talented upperclassmen to lead the team last season. If next year produces similar results (barely reaching a bowl, not having any players drafted), maybe it's time to hit the panic button, but not before.
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I guess you can make an argument that we need to be retaining talent, but the idea that we aren't generating NFL talent is crazy. We had a particularly talented crop of dudes who all left at once. There are people on the team right now who will get drafted. This is a weird aberration, not a trend-line.
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2013: Two 6th round picks
2014: One 1st round pick, One 4th round pick, One 6th round pick
2015: One 6th round pick, One 7th round pick
2016: One 3rd round pick, One 6th
2017: Three 6th round picks, One 7th round pick
2018: Two 1st round picks, Two 5th rounders, One 7th rounder
2019: None
The aberration looks to be 2018. They're not generating a lot of NFL talent that's getting drafted in the early rounds.
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Sure, but in that 25 year streak we only had 3 guys go in rounds 1 and 2 twice (2004 and 2008), and two guys in those rounds four times (1997, 2000, 2006, 2018). I don't see a real drop-off now, and this year's lack of draft can be pretty easily explained by young guy leaving early. If they all played four years it would be a different story. My whole argument is that this is a single, fairly meaningless, data point, and that we're generating NFL talent at about the same rate that we have been.
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this year's lack of draft can be pretty easily explained by young guy leaving early
All programs, including VT, have guys leave for the draft early. This is has been referenced a few times in this thread like it is just an issue affecting us, this year. It isn't a unique variable.
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1994-2006: Four 1st rounders, Nine 2nd rounders, Six 2nd rounders, Ten 4th rounders, Five 5th rounders, Four 6th rounders, Thirteen 7th rounders, 51 players total
2007-present: Five 1st rounders, Four 2nd rounders, Four 3rd rounders, Three 4th rounders, Nine 5th rounders, Eleven 6th rounders, Five 7th rounders, 41 players total
That seems to indicate a decline from the previous decade. YMMV.
" I don't see a real drop-off now, and this year's lack of draft can be pretty easily explained by young guy leaving early. If they all played four years it would be a different story. "
Sure, but every school that has expectations of being good deals with that. Top players leave early. The point is that these guys graduated and weren't replaced with anything close to equivalent talent.
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Agree that winning games is first, disagree that players drafted is a side-effect. It is a vital recruiting aspect to our program (at least it was until this year, insert sad panda & Pep Farm remembers meme).
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This feels like putting the cart before the horse. If you recruit people who win games at the college level, some of them get drafted as a side effect of winning (or at least performing).
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Drafted players is a side effect of success, not a primary metric.
I'd say that drafted players is a metric that measures your ability to scout, recruit, and develop talented. If kids aren't getting drafted, then you're failing to excel at at least one of those things.
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I disagree. The NFL is weird and wacky. Talent and evaluation is based on measurables, not results. Daniel Jones is an okay college QB. We all saw him. Same with Trubisky last year. Yet both went in the top 10. Boston College has been a mediocre college program, yet they develop NFL talent almost every year.
Do winning programs have more draft picks? Of course, see Alabama and Oklahoma. But outside of those elite programs, NFL evaluation can get really tricky.
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This is tough - having the leverage to tell recruits that "we put guys in the league" is definitely something valued in the conversation. Let's hope we're just resetting the streak, and pick back up next year.
This doesn't bother me. What did we have 6 seniors?
- Walker was hurt all season and Nijman wasn't the same after his injury.
- Guys like Tremaine, Terrell, and Settle left early last year. They could have been draft picks this year
- How many dudes were kicked off the team that could have gone pro this year? Adonis? Mook? Hill?
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7 seniors this year means to me that we should be getting our next wave of leadership on the field from the juniors - all Fuente's guys. And next year, I would expect that we should be back in form across the lineup. Let's just make it through next year and find ourselves a quarterback for the 2020 season and go from there.
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7 seniors this year means to me that we should be getting our next wave of leadership on the field from the juniors - all Fuente's guys.
Won't it be the class that Beamer recruited prior to his retirement and Fuente essentially had to keep together as best he could? It's going to be transitioning more and more to Fuente's guys for sure but I think 2020 is the year that the essentially complete assessment can be made.
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Tennessee hasn't had anyone drafted in three of the last five years. Sure, it doesn't help in the recruiting process, but it doesn't seem to have slowed them down either.
Not a big deal.
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I didn't even know this streak existed. As much as I want to say we put guys in the league, we're coming off a 6-7 season where our all everything DC fielded an historically bad defense. We have other things to bemoan besides a streak that ended simply because all the guys who would have been drafted left early last year.
🤷♂️
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At first I thought this was a crazy idea, but on closer inspection, I might put the odds on this close to 50/50.
I see three seniors on the roster who are regular contributors: Ryan Willis, Reggie Floyd, and Houshun Gaines. Floyd does not look like a NFL prospect to me. Gaines doesn't appear to have the size to get drafted (though he could get a look as an undrafted free agent). I do think Willis, unless he has a bad year, has the measurables to warrant a late-round draft pick. He does have a big arm, good size, and moderate wheels. If he can stay healthy and avoid turnover problems, I think he probably gets drafted.
If none of those guys get picked, we have to "hope" for an underclassmen to get drafted. Hazelton, Deablo, Ashby, Rivers, Keene and Webb seem most likely to make the attempt. Ashby and Rivers have proven themselves at LB, and won't have to feel guilty about leaving the cubboard bare behind them (unless both declare early). Hazelton has NFL size and has to see that the WR room is still awfully crowded. Deablo and Webb have both had injury problems and may want to try and make some money at this football thing before another injury kills their chances. And quite frankly, if Rambo came up to you at the combine and said "I want to play for your team" could you say no? I could see one or two of those guys (I wouldn't dare predict which ones) declaring early and getting drafted if they exceed expectations in 2019.
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It's not nuts... Its confirming what we already knew as fans that recruiting at the very end of Beamer's tenure was horrid, and Fuente's first year was a scramble just to maintain #s.
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It is hard for me to reconcile you admitting Beamer's recruiting dipped, yet you often speak like Fuente can do no wrong on the trail and we shouldn't have real recruiting expectations
I don't think the 2016 class is fair to judge either guy by, so if you remove that:
Fuente's 3 classes
2019 - 26
2018 - 24
2017 - 26
Ave Class Rank: 25.33
Beamer's final 3:
2015 - 29
2014 - 28
2013 - 21
(2012, omitted, was #21 also)
Ave Class Rank: 26
2020 class is really going to struggle, so I'm not sure we're really on a great trajectory there. Yes, we've seen a very modest bump in average recruit ranking, but we're comparing to those down Beamer years. Also, adding another .89 4* athlete and ignoring DT (among other positions) isn't an overall 'improvement' to our recruiting. Beamer also had a pretty solid track record of finding those underrated guys and turning them into stars. The jury is still out if Fuente has that ability.
I'm hopeful for the future, but we shouldn't just ignore this as some kind of anomaly. We need more talented players than we're getting to get back to competing for conference championships.
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The jury should be out due to lack number of classes. But currently Darrisaw would count for Fuente as a success in finding underrated guys, and those 2 walk on DTs already sound like finds, though again need more time as they haven't played a down if college football and no one Fuente has recruited has graduated.
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Agree on darrisaw. He'd certainly be one to file under that category. We need 7-8 of those guys on our 2 deep imo, though. Can't comment on whether or not our DTs are or are going to be any good. Unfortunately our recruiting strategy is to blame in having us in the position we are in with DT.
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I don't think the walkons were accepted/offered based on their position. Bud knows that most walk ons take time and wouldn't be ready to play this year.
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My expectations are to see Fuente getting better recruits, he is, it's growing the support staff, he is, it's upgrading facilities, he is. No I don't have your expectations that Fuente should suddenly be bringing in classes higher than every before at Tech without lots of work.
As for putting players in the league look at Tech history by far the most players come from the defensive side of the ball, well Bud Foster is still on staff teaching and recruiting these players.
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No I don't have your expectations that Fuente should suddenly be bringing in classes higher than every [sic] before at Tech without lots of work.
Frank had classes in the 18-21 range. No one is asking Fuente to do the impossible.
As for putting players in the league look at Tech history by far the most players come from the defensive side of the ball, well Bud Foster is still on staff teaching and recruiting these players.
DL and DB recruiting have taken significant hits since Fuente took over as head coach. You've blamed Bud and Wiles for the D recruiting shortfalls in the past (to which I agree with to some degree), but how do you then reconcile the fact that those positions have gotten even worse under a new Head Coach (who should be held accountable for the performance of his staff). I disagree that it is specifically a Bud Foster issue.
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Again, the point is that no one is asking Fuente to do something impossible in terms of recruiting. VT HAS had classes in that range, and Frank was never a tremendous recruiter.
Per 247 (goes back to 2000):
2013 - 21
2012 - 21
2008 - 18
2005 - 20
2001 - 16
So over a 15 year span while it was tracked, he was signing classes in that range 1/3 of the time.
I suppose I'm still the disillusioned one?
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Let's wait to judge the 2020 class until it's over. This staff has shown the ability to close strong at the end of the recruiting year or lock in guys that get bumps in the rankings late in the year.
You have a good point tough. I do feel like a lot of fans (including myself) never overly stressed about beamer's rankings because time and time again his staff thrived at slowly developing underrated recruits into above average players for the final few years of their time at tech. We're still waiting to see if Fuente has that skill. Darrisaw and Keene are bright spots, but it's still to be seen if he can do it consitently. If thats not going to be the case, then he needs to bring in better classes than Beamer.
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Am I the only one sick of dwelling on lagging indicators of the Beamer/Fuente transition???
The Beamer influence in recruiting is done (for good and bad). With the early draftees from his last classes exited, with all the "stretches, risks and attitude issues" no longer on the roster, how about we focus on a new question....
HOW MANY ON OUR CURRENT ROSTER HAVE FUTURE DRAFT POTENTIAL??? How many draft picks do we potentially have with this crop of players as they hit their senior year (or before)?
To me, that's where we need to focus going forward. Now THAT seems like an exciting question!!!!
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Dax has the look of a typical Bud Foster late-round pick who goes on to have a decent career in the NFL.
Tre Turner will be a day 2 pick in a few years if he continues to improve each season, and we probably have another 3-4 WRs on the roster who will get drafted at some point.
I'm hoping to see House Gaines step up in a big way and play his way into the draft, but we'll see.
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While that is factually true, those guys (Dadi, Worilds, I'm assuming you're referring to) were also significantly more athletically gifted than House, and I don't say that to disrespect him, I just can't see him as a body and a football player worthy of a draft pick.
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Exactly. Beamer's last class - that actually signed with him as a head coach- was 2015- Settle, Edmunds, and Adonis were in that class and got drafted. So what is the point? The 2016 class is really not "Fuente's"? OK, Those kids are rising true seniors or RS juniors- Like Belmar, Dzani, Deablo, Floyd, Ladler, Quillen, Hewitt.. Could some of them get drafted? Sure, and Frank Beamer never coached them on the football field, so who is developing them?? OK, so you want to say 2017 is Fuente's first real "class".. great- who are the slam dunk NFL draft picks above and beyond the late talent level Beamer was bringing in (Settle, Stroman, Edmunds) etc.... Who are those guys? Rivers? Devon Hunter? Garbutt, Proctor, Grimsley, Keene? This is not a Beamer left Fuente with no talent scenario when it comes to the NFL draft, IMO.
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This makes me very excited!!!! WOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!! It's awesome when Hokies get signed, but even better when they go to your team. I am looking forward to Ricky making a huge impact in Dallas.
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never forget that the football powerhouse that is miami (OH) produced a two time superbowl QB who is 15 years into a 17 year (at least, per his contract extension) NFL career. Small schools can produce NFL talent, too.
In fact, we are good enough to produce NFL talent. We just aren't good enough that we can produce NFL talent consistently through a coaching change where a bunch of guys declare a year early. Spread out those departures and the streak lives on.
TL;DR - stop being a chicken little, this doesn't matter.
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I don't think is a huge deal as some are making it out to be. Fuente has put players in the NFL, players that started as rookies and are making impacts on their teams. Look at the Edmunds bros and settle. If they stayed another year i believe our record would have been much better and they all would have left this year anyway. I dont believe its about how many players you put in the draft its about the effect they have in the NFL. Fuente can show croots highlights of settle and the edmunds bros playing for Pro teams if thats the concern. I fully believe we are in for a special year this season!
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I don't think is a huge deal as some are making it out to be.
1st
2nd
Fuente has put players in the NFL, players that started as rookies and are making impacts on their teams. Look at the Edmunds bros and settle. If they stayed another year i believe our record would have been much better and they all would have left this year anyway. I dont believe its about how many players you put in the draft its about the effect they have in the NFL. Fuente can show croots highlights of settle and the edmunds bros playing for Pro teams if thats the concern.
Those were Beamer & Foster recruits, not his. Nice try though.
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Getting players to the league matters. I'm not saying that one down year will doom VT for all of eternity, but if players didn't care about getting to the NFL, Alabama wouldn't make recruiting flyers like this:
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That's all fair, but let's be honest: recruit top talent, win a lot, top talent goes to NFL because they were always going to be top talent. Sure, there's something to be said about keeping top talent ego in check, but how many of those players wouldn't have ended up in the NFL without Saban?
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And they don't get credit for Russell Wilson. I guess when I think of NC State, I don't see a lot of success, but they have had plenty of talented players. If I had to make a list from most to least off the top of my head, I would have had them below BC at about 8th.
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If we have at least a solid draft next year (2-3 players) this will look like a blip. Unfortunately, I don't see a single player on the roster who looks to be better than a 50/50 prospect for the 2020 draft. Maybe Hazelton, if he has a really good year and leaves early.
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Overrated stat, especially this year of all years. Last year and the offseason dismissals removed most of our draft possibilities this year. Both Edmunds went early, Settle went early, Lost Adonis, Mook, etc.
From a recruiting perspective we can still pitch the idea that Walker, Chung, Nijman are all signed now. I don't think any of them were above a 3 star coming out of high school. That could probably be spun to sell the idea that we take 3 star players and turn them into NFL players. And then go back to Edmunds brothers and say we take 4 stars and turn them into 1st round NFLers or something to that effect. Work in a Lombardi quote that talks about accepting a challenge or winning BAM watch the 5 stars roll in. Oh yeah, and win..a lot.
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And then go back to Edmunds brothers and say we take 4 stars and turn them into 1st round NFLers or something to that effect.
The Edmundi weren't even four star recruits though. With Kam's success and hopefull the next few years of Edmundi, there is recent history of players outplaying their recruiting ranking that should certainly be part of the recruiting pitch. I'm not sure how much this helps us snag 4 stars though which is where VT seems to be struggling this cycle.
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Comments
That's just nuts. Explains the struggles the last few years.
Out of all of our long streaks, this is the only one I absolutely didn't care about.
It's the one that matters the most to the players
I can't imagine that "we've had players selected in each of the last 25 drafts" has that much of an effect on a recruit's decision. Sure, it sucks not having as many recent entrants into the NFL, but taking one year off of the draft isn't going to do lasting harm to the program.
I suppose you could say the same about losing to UVA or missing a bowl, but as a fan those two things matter to me much more, especially nowadays when I've all but stopped watching the NFL entirely.
If you are a high level P5 program you should be sending multiple players to the NFL every single year. The reason 25 years was our "streak" is because prior to the 1993 season VT football was nothing. Then we became a real college football name brand, going to bowl games, winning conference titles, producing NFL players.
To be back to early-90s level as a program is sobering. If we aren't sending players to the NFL, then every other goal as a program is not possible. Period. Hell, even UVA, ODU and James Madison had players selected in the 2019 draft.
We had a number of years during the streak where we had only a single late-round pick, and we were generally able to "bounce back" from that predicament each time. We're also fresh off our worst season by far since 1992.
I see it less of an indictment of our return to pre-1993 VT Football, and more an indictment of our lack of talented upperclassmen to lead the team last season. If next year produces similar results (barely reaching a bowl, not having any players drafted), maybe it's time to hit the panic button, but not before.
You may be right. In fact, I think you probably are right. I do expect us to bounce back this season.
But if we are going to get back to competing for Coastal titles we're going to need to get back to recruiting and developing NFL-caliber players.
Last year's draft:
1:16 - Maine (Jr)
1:28 - Terrell (R-Jr)
5:163 - Settle (R-Soph)
5:166 - Teller (R-Sr)
7:241 - Stroman (Sr)
Supplimental 6: Adonis (Jr)
I guess you can make an argument that we need to be retaining talent, but the idea that we aren't generating NFL talent is crazy. We had a particularly talented crop of dudes who all left at once. There are people on the team right now who will get drafted. This is a weird aberration, not a trend-line.
2013: Two 6th round picks
2014: One 1st round pick, One 4th round pick, One 6th round pick
2015: One 6th round pick, One 7th round pick
2016: One 3rd round pick, One 6th
2017: Three 6th round picks, One 7th round pick
2018: Two 1st round picks, Two 5th rounders, One 7th rounder
2019: None
The aberration looks to be 2018. They're not generating a lot of NFL talent that's getting drafted in the early rounds.
Sure, but in that 25 year streak we only had 3 guys go in rounds 1 and 2 twice (2004 and 2008), and two guys in those rounds four times (1997, 2000, 2006, 2018). I don't see a real drop-off now, and this year's lack of draft can be pretty easily explained by young guy leaving early. If they all played four years it would be a different story. My whole argument is that this is a single, fairly meaningless, data point, and that we're generating NFL talent at about the same rate that we have been.
All programs, including VT, have guys leave for the draft early. This is has been referenced a few times in this thread like it is just an issue affecting us, this year. It isn't a unique variable.
Here's every VT pick from 1994 to present. It's arbitrary, but let's break it up in halves:
1994-2006: Four 1st rounders, Nine 2nd rounders, Six 2nd rounders, Ten 4th rounders, Five 5th rounders, Four 6th rounders, Thirteen 7th rounders, 51 players total
2007-present: Five 1st rounders, Four 2nd rounders, Four 3rd rounders, Three 4th rounders, Nine 5th rounders, Eleven 6th rounders, Five 7th rounders, 41 players total
Total draftees in 5 year segments:
1994-1999: 17
2000-2004: 22
2005-2009: 24
2010-2014: 16
2015-2019: 13
That seems to indicate a decline from the previous decade. YMMV.
" I don't see a real drop-off now, and this year's lack of draft can be pretty easily explained by young guy leaving early. If they all played four years it would be a different story. "
Sure, but every school that has expectations of being good deals with that. Top players leave early. The point is that these guys graduated and weren't replaced with anything close to equivalent talent.
Yep another on bites the dust!
I'm OK with this. Goal is winning college games first. Drafted players is a side effect of success, not a primary metric.
Agree that winning games is first, disagree that players drafted is a side-effect. It is a vital recruiting aspect to our program (at least it was until this year, insert sad panda & Pep Farm remembers meme).
This feels like putting the cart before the horse. If you recruit people who win games at the college level, some of them get drafted as a side effect of winning (or at least performing).
Hard to win games when you don't have pro-caliber veterans
I'd say that drafted players is a metric that measures your ability to scout, recruit, and develop talented. If kids aren't getting drafted, then you're failing to excel at at least one of those things.
Yeah this is definitely what Clemson said to themselves 10 years ago
I disagree. The NFL is weird and wacky. Talent and evaluation is based on measurables, not results. Daniel Jones is an okay college QB. We all saw him. Same with Trubisky last year. Yet both went in the top 10. Boston College has been a mediocre college program, yet they develop NFL talent almost every year.
Do winning programs have more draft picks? Of course, see Alabama and Oklahoma. But outside of those elite programs, NFL evaluation can get really tricky.
This is tough - having the leverage to tell recruits that "we put guys in the league" is definitely something valued in the conversation. Let's hope we're just resetting the streak, and pick back up next year.
Good breakdown by school and conference here via cbssports.com
ACC seemed down this year - finished 4th for most players drafted.
1) SEC- 64
2) BIG 10- 40
3) Pac 12- 33
4) ACC- 28
5) Big 12- 26
Schools:
1) Alabama- 10
2) Ohio State- 9
3) Oklahoma- 8
4) Washington- 8
5) Georgia- 7
6) Texas A&M- 7
7) Auburn- 6
8) Clemson- 6
9) Notre Dame- 6
10) Ole Miss- 6
11) Penn State- 6
Wait... is ND included in the ACC tally? If so the rest of the conference (not including ND and klempsun) only had 16 players drafted???
This doesn't bother me. What did we have 6 seniors?
- Walker was hurt all season and Nijman wasn't the same after his injury.
- Guys like Tremaine, Terrell, and Settle left early last year. They could have been draft picks this year
- How many dudes were kicked off the team that could have gone pro this year? Adonis? Mook? Hill?
I think we officially had 8. But only 6 contributors.
This season only has 6!!! 2 of which are starters/contributors.
We had 6 at the end of the season. And more than 2 contributed: Walker, Mihota, Nijman, Peoples, Chung all played a fair amount. Not sure about Pfaff
Carroll was another senior that retired from football so he was there last summer I believe.
This year isn't much better with 7 seniors: Willis, Burke, House, Floyd, Quillen, Smith and Seisay.
7 seniors this year means to me that we should be getting our next wave of leadership on the field from the juniors - all Fuente's guys. And next year, I would expect that we should be back in form across the lineup. Let's just make it through next year and find ourselves a quarterback for the 2020 season and go from there.
Won't it be the class that Beamer recruited prior to his retirement and Fuente essentially had to keep together as best he could? It's going to be transitioning more and more to Fuente's guys for sure but I think 2020 is the year that the essentially complete assessment can be made.
CLose enough. How many years is that for Fuente? 5?
I said 2 contributors this year. Regardless, it's little veteran depth.
Most telling stat, BC had more senior starters on defense than we had on our entire team.
BC had more starting seniors than we had Seniors and Juniors on our team.
Not a good look, Bob GIF.
Got ya FAM
Tennessee hasn't had anyone drafted in three of the last five years. Sure, it doesn't help in the recruiting process, but it doesn't seem to have slowed them down either.
Not a big deal.
Have we really regressed all the way to Tennessee's level?
Ouch.
Meh, not a big deal for me. Nebraska had a 56 year streak that ended this year. Ouch.
Better than a 25 year streak of not putting a guy in the league.
"Hey at least we're better than bad FCS programs" is an interesting way to look at our program.
You read a lot into a comment that was well....an optimistic viewpoint. Go head with your bad self!
I didn't even know this streak existed. As much as I want to say we put guys in the league, we're coming off a 6-7 season where our all everything DC fielded an historically bad defense. We have other things to bemoan besides a streak that ended simply because all the guys who would have been drafted left early last year.
🤷♂️
As long as our current streak of 15 makes it to 16, this does not bother me.
Well, technically Washington used this year's sixth to draft Adonis Alexander in last year's supplemental draft. Can we have that count for this year?
Streak not likely to restart next year.
Hazelton goes if he has another big year imo.
Willis will get drafted even if it's late
I doubt it
Why? He's tall with a good frame and arm. With another year of solid stats, I'd say there's a pretty good chance of it.
He's no Daniel Jones. Wait... is that good or bad now?
I mean he had a better season than Daniel Jones so I guess he can get drafted
All we have to do is send Gettleman 3-series and he's hooked.
At first I thought this was a crazy idea, but on closer inspection, I might put the odds on this close to 50/50.
I see three seniors on the roster who are regular contributors: Ryan Willis, Reggie Floyd, and Houshun Gaines. Floyd does not look like a NFL prospect to me. Gaines doesn't appear to have the size to get drafted (though he could get a look as an undrafted free agent). I do think Willis, unless he has a bad year, has the measurables to warrant a late-round draft pick. He does have a big arm, good size, and moderate wheels. If he can stay healthy and avoid turnover problems, I think he probably gets drafted.
If none of those guys get picked, we have to "hope" for an underclassmen to get drafted. Hazelton, Deablo, Ashby, Rivers, Keene and Webb seem most likely to make the attempt. Ashby and Rivers have proven themselves at LB, and won't have to feel guilty about leaving the cubboard bare behind them (unless both declare early). Hazelton has NFL size and has to see that the WR room is still awfully crowded. Deablo and Webb have both had injury problems and may want to try and make some money at this football thing before another injury kills their chances. And quite frankly, if Rambo came up to you at the combine and said "I want to play for your team" could you say no? I could see one or two of those guys (I wouldn't dare predict which ones) declaring early and getting drafted if they exceed expectations in 2019.
It's not nuts... Its confirming what we already knew as fans that recruiting at the very end of Beamer's tenure was horrid, and Fuente's first year was a scramble just to maintain #s.
I wish a lot of fans knew this. The hot takes are out there, even from some on this site.
It is hard for me to reconcile you admitting Beamer's recruiting dipped, yet you often speak like Fuente can do no wrong on the trail and we shouldn't have real recruiting expectations
I don't think the 2016 class is fair to judge either guy by, so if you remove that:
Fuente's 3 classes
2019 - 26
2018 - 24
2017 - 26
Ave Class Rank: 25.33
Beamer's final 3:
2015 - 29
2014 - 28
2013 - 21
(2012, omitted, was #21 also)
Ave Class Rank: 26
2020 class is really going to struggle, so I'm not sure we're really on a great trajectory there. Yes, we've seen a very modest bump in average recruit ranking, but we're comparing to those down Beamer years. Also, adding another .89 4* athlete and ignoring DT (among other positions) isn't an overall 'improvement' to our recruiting. Beamer also had a pretty solid track record of finding those underrated guys and turning them into stars. The jury is still out if Fuente has that ability.
I'm hopeful for the future, but we shouldn't just ignore this as some kind of anomaly. We need more talented players than we're getting to get back to competing for conference championships.
The jury should be out due to lack number of classes. But currently Darrisaw would count for Fuente as a success in finding underrated guys, and those 2 walk on DTs already sound like finds, though again need more time as they haven't played a down if college football and no one Fuente has recruited has graduated.
Agree on darrisaw. He'd certainly be one to file under that category. We need 7-8 of those guys on our 2 deep imo, though. Can't comment on whether or not our DTs are or are going to be any good. Unfortunately our recruiting strategy is to blame in having us in the position we are in with DT.
I don't think the walkons were accepted/offered based on their position. Bud knows that most walk ons take time and wouldn't be ready to play this year.
My expectations are to see Fuente getting better recruits, he is, it's growing the support staff, he is, it's upgrading facilities, he is. No I don't have your expectations that Fuente should suddenly be bringing in classes higher than every before at Tech without lots of work.
As for putting players in the league look at Tech history by far the most players come from the defensive side of the ball, well Bud Foster is still on staff teaching and recruiting these players.
Frank had classes in the 18-21 range. No one is asking Fuente to do the impossible.
DL and DB recruiting have taken significant hits since Fuente took over as head coach. You've blamed Bud and Wiles for the D recruiting shortfalls in the past (to which I agree with to some degree), but how do you then reconcile the fact that those positions have gotten even worse under a new Head Coach (who should be held accountable for the performance of his staff). I disagree that it is specifically a Bud Foster issue.
Let's stop with the delusions. In his 29 years as head coach, how many were in that range?
2001-16th (2002 43rd)
2005- 20th (2006 31st)
2008-18th (2009 25th)
2012-21 (2013 21st)
Again, the point is that no one is asking Fuente to do something impossible in terms of recruiting. VT HAS had classes in that range, and Frank was never a tremendous recruiter.
Per 247 (goes back to 2000):
2013 - 21
2012 - 21
2008 - 18
2005 - 20
2001 - 16
So over a 15 year span while it was tracked, he was signing classes in that range 1/3 of the time.
I suppose I'm still the disillusioned one?
Let's wait to judge the 2020 class until it's over. This staff has shown the ability to close strong at the end of the recruiting year or lock in guys that get bumps in the rankings late in the year.
You have a good point tough. I do feel like a lot of fans (including myself) never overly stressed about beamer's rankings because time and time again his staff thrived at slowly developing underrated recruits into above average players for the final few years of their time at tech. We're still waiting to see if Fuente has that skill. Darrisaw and Keene are bright spots, but it's still to be seen if he can do it consitently. If thats not going to be the case, then he needs to bring in better classes than Beamer.
Am I the only one sick of dwelling on lagging indicators of the Beamer/Fuente transition???
The Beamer influence in recruiting is done (for good and bad). With the early draftees from his last classes exited, with all the "stretches, risks and attitude issues" no longer on the roster, how about we focus on a new question....
HOW MANY ON OUR CURRENT ROSTER HAVE FUTURE DRAFT POTENTIAL??? How many draft picks do we potentially have with this crop of players as they hit their senior year (or before)?
To me, that's where we need to focus going forward. Now THAT seems like an exciting question!!!!
Dax has the look of a typical Bud Foster late-round pick who goes on to have a decent career in the NFL.
Tre Turner will be a day 2 pick in a few years if he continues to improve each season, and we probably have another 3-4 WRs on the roster who will get drafted at some point.
I'm hoping to see House Gaines step up in a big way and play his way into the draft, but we'll see.
To play what position? He weighs 235 lbs, so at best he gets a shot somewhere as a potential LB. I'm not sure who is going to use a pick there.
Wouldn't be the first time we've had someone play a different position in the NFL.
While that is factually true, those guys (Dadi, Worilds, I'm assuming you're referring to) were also significantly more athletically gifted than House, and I don't say that to disrespect him, I just can't see him as a body and a football player worthy of a draft pick.
Exactly. Beamer's last class - that actually signed with him as a head coach- was 2015- Settle, Edmunds, and Adonis were in that class and got drafted. So what is the point? The 2016 class is really not "Fuente's"? OK, Those kids are rising true seniors or RS juniors- Like Belmar, Dzani, Deablo, Floyd, Ladler, Quillen, Hewitt.. Could some of them get drafted? Sure, and Frank Beamer never coached them on the football field, so who is developing them?? OK, so you want to say 2017 is Fuente's first real "class".. great- who are the slam dunk NFL draft picks above and beyond the late talent level Beamer was bringing in (Settle, Stroman, Edmunds) etc.... Who are those guys? Rivers? Devon Hunter? Garbutt, Proctor, Grimsley, Keene? This is not a Beamer left Fuente with no talent scenario when it comes to the NFL draft, IMO.
NFL probably just did it to honor Frank.
#drivefor25butstoprightat25
/sssstartanother
If this streak meant a lot to recruits, then Nebraska would have had a top 10 recruiting class for the last 20 years.
Sure saw a lot of VT highlights during the draft. Made the other team's players look really good....
Congrats Ricky
NONE OF US SHOULD END UP IN DALLAS
Or DC, Philly...
Why would you wish DC on them, do you hate the Hokies?
... I think he was adding to the list of places that "NONE OF US SHOULD END UP IN"...
You'd be correct
Sorry I misread
This makes me very excited!!!! WOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!! It's awesome when Hokies get signed, but even better when they go to your team. I am looking forward to Ricky making a huge impact in Dallas.
Steven Peoples received an invite to the Cardinals' mini camp. Tweet
Excellent. How did TMac do?
ODU had more players drafted than us.
So did Tarleton State. It happens.
never forget that the football powerhouse that is miami (OH) produced a two time superbowl QB who is 15 years into a 17 year (at least, per his contract extension) NFL career. Small schools can produce NFL talent, too.
In fact, we are good enough to produce NFL talent. We just aren't good enough that we can produce NFL talent consistently through a coaching change where a bunch of guys declare a year early. Spread out those departures and the streak lives on.
TL;DR - stop being a chicken little, this doesn't matter.
While I'm not being a chicken little (& I encourage others to not do the same), in terms of it not mattering,
Yes, every 25 years or so... like losing seasons..
I don't think is a huge deal as some are making it out to be. Fuente has put players in the NFL, players that started as rookies and are making impacts on their teams. Look at the Edmunds bros and settle. If they stayed another year i believe our record would have been much better and they all would have left this year anyway. I dont believe its about how many players you put in the draft its about the effect they have in the NFL. Fuente can show croots highlights of settle and the edmunds bros playing for Pro teams if thats the concern. I fully believe we are in for a special year this season!
1st
2nd
Those were Beamer & Foster recruits, not his. Nice try though.
Getting players to the league matters. I'm not saying that one down year will doom VT for all of eternity, but if players didn't care about getting to the NFL, Alabama wouldn't make recruiting flyers like this:
/endthread
That's all fair, but let's be honest: recruit top talent, win a lot, top talent goes to NFL because they were always going to be top talent. Sure, there's something to be said about keeping top talent ego in check, but how many of those players wouldn't have ended up in the NFL without Saban?
I think they would have.
NFL without Saban? Sure, probably true for a lot of them.
However, Saban's hit rate on 5*'s going in the first round for the big, big signing bonuses? 48%
The rest of college football's hit rate on 5*'s going in the first round? 17%
Last 10 NFL draft number for every ACC school. Tech sits 6th, behind Clemson, FSU, Miami, NC State O and UNC.
But I thought Mack and his new staff was the only reason UNC was all of a sudden recruiting well.
NC State is the surprise on this list
They had an entire starting Dline get drafted one year. Add in two NFL QB's I'm not surprised.
And they don't get credit for Russell Wilson. I guess when I think of NC State, I don't see a lot of success, but they have had plenty of talented players. If I had to make a list from most to least off the top of my head, I would have had them below BC at about 8th.
I'm going to have to go ahead and attribute the basis for this thread to the fact that we had a better than average year last year.
Rendering it not quite as interesting as people might want to try and make it.
It's an interesting thing to note, but not really all that important. If it were a trend, it would be concerning.
If we have at least a solid draft next year (2-3 players) this will look like a blip. Unfortunately, I don't see a single player on the roster who looks to be better than a 50/50 prospect for the 2020 draft. Maybe Hazelton, if he has a really good year and leaves early.
Overrated stat, especially this year of all years. Last year and the offseason dismissals removed most of our draft possibilities this year. Both Edmunds went early, Settle went early, Lost Adonis, Mook, etc.
From a recruiting perspective we can still pitch the idea that Walker, Chung, Nijman are all signed now. I don't think any of them were above a 3 star coming out of high school. That could probably be spun to sell the idea that we take 3 star players and turn them into NFL players. And then go back to Edmunds brothers and say we take 4 stars and turn them into 1st round NFLers or something to that effect. Work in a Lombardi quote that talks about accepting a challenge or winning BAM watch the 5 stars roll in. Oh yeah, and win..a lot.
The Edmundi weren't even four star recruits though. With Kam's success and hopefull the next few years of Edmundi, there is recent history of players outplaying their recruiting ranking that should certainly be part of the recruiting pitch. I'm not sure how much this helps us snag 4 stars though which is where VT seems to be struggling this cycle.