With Game Of Thrones the show ending tonight after 9 years, I figured we should have one thread for its last hurrah.
Who ends up on the Iron throne? Is there a 7 kingdoms after tonight?
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I hate to admit I am surprisingly "meh" right now about the finale. I'm sure once the song kicks off I will be suitably pumped.
so how did that age? I think I was more pumped at the beginning.
No idea what is going to happen. Don't have high expectations, but it could certainly surprise me.
Jon Snow dies killing Dany and Sansa sits on the throne.
Drogon flying over Winterfell...not looking good for Sansa
Jon Snow goes into witness protection and ends up as the dad on Malcolm in the Middle.
I just want to be entertained. Has this season been a little bit of a letdown? Sure. But have I still been entertained? Helllll yeahhhh. Time to ride off into the sunset! LFG!
You're Looking For Group to ride off into the sunset?
LFG Ulduar!!
Ahh, those were the days.
They're on their way back there. Classic WoW, 26 August.
Yeah, but what bosses? I don't have 4 hours to wipe because we picked up a level 38 scrub for the first few bosses.
Not sure why...not sure how but Tyrion will rule Westeros...though not necessarily on the Iron Throne
Good call.
That's not her.
I'm just happy he's on Twitter more...
Feels like pandering tho
/s
This better go plaid...
Him on Twitter or his pick?
Didn't notice who tweeted the above until you said this.
DAGGER!!!
So no one sits on the Iron throne.
Eye rolls are aplenty
That was a great episode overall.
I don't know what to say..
I WAS ENTERTAINED.
My wife fell asleep during the scene with the council deciding the king. She woke up and asked me what happened and all I could figure out to say was, "Nothing really happened." She made me rewind and start the scene over. Minutes later she was asleep again.
Perfect episode to cap off a lazy, garbage season.
A republic of 6 kingdoms make sense. I can't put my finger on it, but I'm still disappointed nonetheless. maybe I'm sad that the show is over, or maybe I'm just sad at how season 8 was done in general.
Vegas had Bran as -500...never bet against the house
Leaks run deep
When I saw these vegas odds on on Monday/Tuesday this past week, I pretty much set my mind to Bran being named King. Don't know if I like it or not though
Over the summer he was at +3500 (OKTC link here). He was down to +200 before Episode 5, probably due to the fact that the leaks pointing towards him being king were not confirmed. They didn't drop down to -500 until after Episode 5.
Overall the ending was what I expected but send Jon to the north like the fuck? They just killed the night king the fuck do they need a night's watch for anymore? Also cliffhanger on where drogon went rubbed me the wrong way I get he took danys body somewhere but that's kinda a shitty ending for the dragon and damy to not explain any of that bit
Protecting the realm from snarks and grumkins.
Also have issues with both of these. 1) John just fucking wait for Greyworm to leave and ride your horse down old town road back to wherever you want to be. 2) "Maybe I can find him" -Bran on Drogon. Yeah I would have rather them just not mentioned Drogon then I would assume he's just living his life no where near people.
Really hated that they mentioned Drogon as well. Is that insinuating they will hunt down Drogon and (try to) kill him? He flew off east mourning the death of his mother, let him be.
I was the biggest bitcher of them all throughout season 8. And honestly I loved this episode and how they closed it out. Sometimes you just have to let it be what it's going to be and enjoy it. No complaints here.
With 10 episodes they could've done this season so much better. I'm mildly okay with the ending seeing as how all the Stark kids are rulers of their own destiny now.
The scene at the dragon pit was cringey with the attempt at humor and the small council table I felt was rather odd but who knows I'm not a show writer
I've been thinking a bit about the switch from 10 to 6 episodes. Sure all the episodes were longer but they only had about the same runtime as 8 ~50 minute episodes. All it allowed them to do was to chunk the story into bigger bits. From some random internet article last year:
The two setup episodes (arguable the best two this year) were of standard runtime. The Battle of Winterfell, its aftermath, the Battle of King's Landing, and its aftermath, were all about 1h20m. Honestly, the Battle of Winterfell was done just about right; the extra runtime was justified and worth it. They did a good job portraying the hopelessness in being overrun by the dead, which was necessary to lure in the Night King. I don't think that could have been done shorter. The other episodes, however, could have been more of standard length.
Instead of putting the Winterfell aftermath and the tragedy before King's Landing together, that could have been spaced out into two standard-length episodes, allowing for more time to see Danaerys' descent into madness. Rhaegal could have been killed shortly after arriving at King's Landing at the end of (new) Episode 4, while we could see Dany alternating between brooding and fire/blood in (new) Episode 5, culminating in Missandei's death. (New) Episode 6 could be preparing for the Battle of King's Landing, with more evidence of Dany's coming unhinged. (New) Episode 7 could be Dany/Drogon destroying the ballistas and fleet, and another call for Cersei's surrender, with some triggering event (not the goddamn bells) at the end of the episode, maybe the Lannister army retreating to the Red Keep and refusing to surrender. (New) Episode 8 could be the orgy of destruction, starting with the Red Keep and extending outward into the city, with lots more alternate viewpoints. (New) Episode 9 would be the final episode, in extended length, which would bring the series to the same length as ten ~50min episodes.
Doing it this way would allow the writer to show Dany's descent into madness, the lack of which seems to be the chief complaint of the final season. The cramming of everything into fewer, longer episodes seems to have disrupted that narrative. I'm no writer, but it just seems the chunking of the season was all wrong.
Just my $.02.
I liked it. Yeah, this season had some logic gaps and yes (most definitely YES) we needed about 2 extra episodes in each of the last two seasons for necessary character development, but this ending worked for me. That final montage of the Stark children all moving on to their next phase hit me right in the feel spot. It felt right.
Now can I get a spinoff of Arya doing badass things in an explorer adventure show? "West of Westeros, coming to HBO!"
Of all the spinoffs I'm down for Jon and the big man and his dog wander the Wilderness.
The ending definitely felt like a let's leave the door open for future spin offs instead of a end of a saga type feel to it.
I'm sure all these actors are done with this show and want to move on. Can't blame them either. They've been doing this for 10 years. All the current spinoffs in production are for events that take place prior to this time period.
But I really would like that Arya spinoff. But that would probably require Martin coming up with some content. Considering he's two books behind on the main story, I'm not holding my breath
Is there anything concrete on the spinoffs? I had heard they were working on one that would focus on Bran the Builder but that's just word of mouth.
Doesn't have to be Martin. Just so long as it isn't Dan & Dave.
I agree. I saw like 5 potential spin offs. Give me all of them!
My only complaint is Jon. What a shit way to end his story.
Didn't Mance tell him he belonged north of the wall?
Sort of, I took him looking back at the wall at the end of him leaving, he's free.
Yeah I get that. And he seemed happy. It just felt unauthentic given the story behind is lineage.
Tormund was right. He always had the "true North" in him. He was kind of a shitty leader anyway. Too noble and all that. Now he can live out his days with the free folk stress free. Maybe find himself another red headed lady friend
Looking for strong woman, likes to keep warm at night, must love wolves.
If only he could've ended up with Ygritte...
How many times do you think she pulls the "You know nothing..." line on him?
Answer: Every day.
I'm sure he has no problem dealing with it though.
How was he a shitty leader? He might have been noble, but that didn't come up as a negative much. He basically united the wildlings and Night's Watch. That takes some serious leadership.
So I assume Jon told everyone he stabbed dany in the heart cause how would grey worm know? The dragon was a super helpful accomplice by hiding the body for him.
Unless jon was smart and tried to hide the blood stain on the ground I would imagine even the most dim whitted wouldn't be able to figure out why Jon was upset, the iron throne melted, and dany and drogon gone
I absolutely hated it but they had gone too far to redeem it in one episode anyway. That's what happens when you cram the defeat of 3 major antagonists into 4 episodes- every single one is abbreviated and unsatisfactory. The idea that the remaining lords and ladies were somehow compelled to agree on Bran was forced and laughable, much less that the Unsullied would give a flying fuck about being involved in those politics. I guess the positive is they largely wrapped things up but it felt like pandering rather than explaining any of the clusterfuck of a plot we endured this season.
PS glad that the Arya white horse scene from last episode turned out to be so meaningful. Oh wait, it was completely freaking pointless. Also I'm going to take a little victory lap on calling that people were reading way too much into that Melisandre "prophecy" about Arya shutting green eyes of Cersei or Dany.
I thought they did well to wrap up most arcs but the one that felt so undone was Dany. They spend all 8 fucking seasons building her up and she dies and that's it out she and drogon go and not a penny more for all the build up and that's it. I guess you could say it's what she wanted in the end to break the wheel but that felt very unfinished to me in a way.
And yet her story arc was somehow still better executed and explained than the Night King.
Dexter v. Game of Thrones.
Main character feels remorse for killing and stares death in the face (hurricane and Drogon) ✅
Main character inexplicably survives said encounter ✅
Main character let's sister go off in a boat ✅
Main character leaves what's rightfully his (kid/North) to someone he loves to care for it (Hannah/Sansa) ✅
Main character moves up north ✅
Main character last seen among trees starting a new life ✅
It might be petty but I was bothered by how many Dothraki and unsullied were there at the end. Honestly it looked like more than there were at Winterfell
I said this to my wife and she was like they didnt take any casualties taking kings landing. But winterfell was bleak! Lots died! How are there that many? There were more dothraki in King Landing than in Winterfell!
Oh man....yawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwn
At least it is over. Just a boring episode all together. Why is there even a Night's Watch anymore? Seems obsolete now considering Bran can just tell anyone any threat ever.
Calling Bran, Bran the Broken is hilarious lol. Also Sansa calling him out for not being able to achieve an erection was even funnier.
Meh episode for a bad season.
I'm ok with the ending, but once again just terribly executed.
Also how in the fuck could Tyrion be left out of a book that details the war? He was the fucking Hand of the Queen for Dany for god sake. I get that that was supposed to be a joke, but at least have it make sense. Oh and be funny.
Maybe Bran hate dwarves?
Probably because Tyrion kept calling him broken
He gets left out because he isn't the people in power he is behind the scenes power and he is a dwarf.
He is the right hand man of the Mad Queen! Thats ridiculous. That isnt behind the scenes. He pretty much pushed himself into being known worldwide. Its stupid to think that he would have no mention. What? They are just gonna leave out her advisors fron the history? Also he is the brother of the enemy. Just a dumb joke that makes no sense at all.
Some powerful moments but otherwise lame.
Sam advocating for democracy was cringe worthy. And those aren't even close to all the houses.
Jon being sent to the Night's watch was also dumb. Ok you promised Grey Worm. First of all. Why? They are in a burnt city with no means to defend or feed themselves. Surround them and starve them out. Nobody is going to give fuck about them. Wait until they are starving, demand Jon and Tyrion in exchange for food and ships to sail away.
And why the hell would they give a damn about their word to Grey Worm? Who the hell is he to them. Ok, sure we'll send Jon to nights watch. Bye grey worm! Ok, bring Jon back now, they gone... Stupid.
Jon leaving for the Wall was pathetic. Sansa and Arya and literally everyone who Jon saved from Mad Dany giving him up just like that... Pathetic. For fuck sake, at least let the man go with Arya.
Bran on the throne... Man, I guess we all know what Bran's superpower was now. Manipulation. Dude moved people like Chess pieces to kill the NK for him and then Dany to be king.
I hope the book actually ends differently and Martin just lied to them so they don't spoil it. That would be great.
Edit: Sansa as Queen of the North. Called it.
They should have just ended GOT after battle of the bastards.
That was terrible.
Proud to say that I've never watched 1 episode. And never will.
As an old man, I read the books years ago when the hype started, because old people read. Stunningly graphic and over-the-top violence and sex. If the show covers even 40% of what the book describes in detail, I would be puking in a bucket. Martin is a sick, sick mind.
Books started off really slowly, and then time (and space) seemed to accelerate towards an unsatisfying end. Sounds like the show is the same.
So the books are fairly historical accurate to a kingdom in the middles ages then?
But seriously, why would you leave this comment on a thread specifically about the final episode of a show you've never watched?
Yeah, that's a bit attention-whorey.
Why is that something to be proud of lol?
Terrible ending...why would anyone be allowed to talk to Tyrion, especially Jon? why wouldn't they just kill Jon? He's our prisoner, 20 minutes ago you had no inclination to take prisoners! We demand justice...oh new king (a Stark), no problem, just send him North of the wall.
hmmmm you killed my mother, let me melt down the symbolic "throne" everyone has been fighting for.
Brann?? really, all I could do was laugh.
They crammed four seasons into one episode, sad.
- Jon was still the Queens top liege lord at the time
- Without their Queen to tell them what to do, the Unsullied were kind of directionless. Grey Worm wanted justice for Tyrion's and Jon's betrayals but he obviously felt like it wasn't up to him to decide what justice that would be. He wanted to be the Executioner but wasn't going to step into that Judge role. Note he was frowning the entire time but accepted the ruling of King Bran.
- Drogon was smart enough to know that the Iron Throne is what got his mother killed. He's also not a kinslayer so he wasn't going to torch his cousin. (if you count the dragons as Dany's children)
- I think the idea is that Bran manipulated everyone to put himself on the throne.
- agreed.
Didn't realize there was a thread just for this episode so I'll just copy my comment over.
Okay, Chris was right. How do you let Bran be fucking king if he's only in 50% of the episodes, we completely skip over the conversation he had with Tyrion. I understand the ending is GRRM and I'm fine with that ending if they logically explain it. Bran this season, sat under a tree and warged into ravens while half of Dany's army gets killed, doesn't come up again until John tells Sansa and Arya, then wheels his happy ass to Kings Landing and is king. THE MOST POWERFUL PERSON IN THE SERIES; it makes sense for him to be king, but they couldn't have underplayed his importance any more.
For a minute there, I thought they were ending the show with that shot around the table with Tyrion, Bronn, Sam and Davos (if I remember correctly)...I could feel my blood beginning to boil
Bran being king presents a LOT of major issues.
If you take it on the very, very basic surface level that D&D have been operating under the last two seasons with all their Basil exposition and plot contrivances to fit their ending, you can understand the basic thought here: Bran is the detached, hyper knowledgable (in this case, all of history, some unclear future sight power as well), not part of society, not beholden to the more visceral human emotions that can cloud/alter your judgement, Philosopher King.
However, in the context of the actual world in which they all live, very few people even know Bran has any powers at all. Of those who do know he has power, very few people have ever seen those powers in action in any meaningful way. The viewers know way more about his power because of all the time we spent with Bran north of the wall, meeting the Three Eyed Raven, etc. There are tons of people even in Winterfell just kind of taking everyone at their word that he has any kind of power at all. So, the majority of these lords don't even know he has powers, they certainly haven't seen them, and they quite frankly don't know him at all because he's been crippled since he was a child or traveling around north of the wall.
edit: Got caught up in jumping straight to the independence thought that I forgot to take the next logical step. So let's say they make it clear to everyone what Bran's powers are. How long do you think it will take for someone to realize Bran stood idly by and let all of this terrible shit happen? He was either so disinterested in interfering that he did absolutely nothing to stop what happened in King's Landing, OR he just let it happen knowing it would lead to the point where he got to be the ruler. I find it hard to believe that none of these lords would not take issue with either of those scenarios.
That leads us to all these lords just being totally cool with the North being the only one who gets independence. There is some historical precedent there, but there is no way none of the other kingdoms wouldn't want to be independent as well. Dorne, particularly in the books, also has a history of independence and they would certainly demand their independence if it was being given to another kingdom. Yara was already given the Iron Islands' independence by Daenerys, so she would naturally want to retain that under the new rule. Why do they even need a king? They could all just be independent and meet as that same council as some sort of peacekeeping structure between the kingdoms.
My first thought you. You have all of these lords there. Who knows that Bran has any ability? Sam, Tyrion, Arya, Sansa, maybe Breanne?
Worse ending to a great show: GoT or Dexter?
Despite the recency of GoT, I think I still have to maintain that the ending of Dexter was far worse
Yes I would say LOST and Dexter had worse ending than GOT. I would also argue that neither of those shows at their peak were as good as the best stretch of GOT.
Never seen any of Lost, so no input there. I would agree with your second point.
I'll say this, immediately after the episode, I felt very disappointed in it. 12 hours later, I am more okay with it. While I don't understand why there is still a Castle Black to man, Jon obviously isn't staying there; appears to be going to live (maybe lead) the free folk north of the wall; got Sansa as Queen of the North; Bran in KL; and Arya sailing under the Stark flag to discover what is West of Westeros.
Like I mentioned in the other thread; I never went into an episode looking for holes to punch in the story; I just watched to be entertained, and it was definitely entertaining if you aren't searching for something to hate about it.
Yeah from an entertainment stand point I still love the show. From a killer story line show the last season didn't do it for me especially since I had just re watched 1-7 it had a lot to live up to and narrowing story lines were expected but the drop off in quality was more obvious especially episodes 3-6 of this season. I didn't think 1 and 2 were bad at all.
I intended to rewatch 1-7, but never got around to it, which is maybe why I was able to enjoy this season more than some; the writing from the first 7 season wasn't so fresh in my mind, lol.
Now that it is all said and done, I'm going to give it some time then rewatch it all
Hot Take: Sopranos is the worst ending in TV history.
Cold Take: this topic deserves it's own thread - all time best and worst TV show endings.
I loved Sopranos ending. Thought Lost and GoT were pretty close but different in their way to disappoint. Lost tried to be too intellectual and philosophical in their ending. GoT was dumbed down for the masses.
Breaking Bad is the best ending I've ever seen.
The thread would be fun, but I feel for my money that Breaking Bad ended in just about the most satisfying way a series can end.
Through and through the best show on TV in recent history every episode was meaningful (except maybe Fly - fuck that episode) incredible character build, solid ending.
Second note. Who the fuck is Arya sailing with. She's going West of Westros where the maps end? And little Arya just rallies up a crew that says fuck it we'll go on this western expedition cause we don't have shit better to do?
I mean, over 200,000 people put their names on a list to try to get on a one way flight to Mars
There are always people who are willing to go to whats next.
Because it's what's next
So, was Jon actually Azor Ahai? It's a very loose interpretation of the prophecy, but he stabs Dany (Nissa Nissa) in the heart, which brings Drogon (Lightbringer) to burn the iron throne.
Also, 'Azor Ahai will "wake dragons out of stone.'" - and when Jon is approaching the Red Keep, the large pile of rocks wakes up to reveal it was actually Drogon.
Yeah I mean I can see some connections but talk about a stretch.
I'm not the only one that thinks this.
Oh I know I've read the articles but if that's what they were going for to me it seems like even more evidence that they crammed way too much into 1 6 episode season. When was the last time the prophecy was even mentioned?
What rubbed me the most besides this whole rubbish season and all the irony. Sansa being a bitch and saying "The north will stay an independent kingdom". To which Bran nods. Why would this happen? If Bran allowed Sansa to do that then everybody would have followed suit. If it was THAT easy to dip out? Most of the people sitting at that Bullshit counsel would have given King's Landing the middle finger and ruled their own lands. Especially the Iron Islands....... This ending missed the mark. Biggly. However, I did enjoy Arya telling Yara to shut up or I'll shut you up. Best part of this whole season imo.
I said all this stuff above, but I couldn't help but roll my eyes at that Arya/Yara moment. This season they have gone to great lengths to highlight the questionable things in Dany's past while seemingly ignoring the horrible things everyone else has done. Yes, Dany showed no emotion as her abusive brother who threatened her unborn child died, well Arya fed a man his own sons in the form of pies, then killed him and serial murdered the rest of his house with an obvious satisfaction. Sansa smiled as she orchestrated and watched Ramsey being torn to pieces by his dogs. Jon has executed people begging for their life, and a child who killed him because he befriended the Freefolk who slaughtered his family. Tyrion choked his former love interest to death and killed his father in cold blood. The first moment was specifically stated by D&D as ammunition used against Dany to justify her suddenly committing genocide, but we got it rammed down our throats how great Sansa and even Arya are in this season. They might as well have stamped "GOOD PERSON" over Arya and Sansa every time they were on screen. Quite frankly, I like Arya and Sansa, and I think they are capable of doing those things without it becoming the defining moments of them eventually breaking bad. However, the selectiveness of using these things against one character but they have no effect on other characters is part of what rubbed me the wrong way with this season.
Go back to Tyrion and Jon having their conversation then Dany and Jon having their conversation in the throne room. There are a lot of threads being tied up there. Essentially, it's all a matter of perspective. No one is saying that any of them are without blood on their hands. They all thought they were in the right and good. Dany crossed the line and was willing to watch the world burn though.
The justification used for her crossing the line is weak, and rushed. That was my point. They just had to pick out a few things to justify it, but those same things are not used against any other character. She was 1 and half episodes removed from risking her life, her dragons, her entire army, and her conquest of the throne to defend all of mankind before committing mass genocide. The jump was too quick and their bullshit (and contradictory to things they've previously said) justifications based on a few past instances was not satisfactory to make her committing genocide believable.
Sounds like you're pissed at D&D. I get that.
In the end, I think almost everyone got what they deserved. I won't deny there were too many holes in the storyline and they could have done a better job of filling those in. But she has been stacking up body counts like a dictator for some time. That's why I mentioned the two conversations.
These four words encapsulate everything that was wrong with the past two seasons. Viewers should be able to watch each scene and understand what it means in the context of the series. If you need writers/directors/producers/etc to explain or justify the event, then the show was poorly produced/written/created.
Couldn't agree more. This wasn't necessary when they had the source material. The further they become removed from it, the more they relied on exposition and these after-show explanations to explain plot decisions. Not to mention they contradicted their own after-show statements many times over.
The ending left me cheerful and hopeful.
Geez, GoT, what have you become?
I feel cheated that the only main character blood we had in the finale was Dany.
My personal alternate ending:
Arya and Jon have a conversation much like the one he had with Tyrion with him again defending Dany, but leaving absolutely no doubt that he is completely loyal to her, no matter what.
Scene with Jon killing Dany is the same, but after he stabs her he pulls off his face to reveal Arya.
So you want Arya to kill Jon?
Not necessarily. That was just a quick alternate ending I came up with on the fly last night. I never thought in a million years the end of GoT would leave me with warm, hopeful feelings. I also never thought I would be so dissatisfied with a happy ending, but here we are.
What Fireman was getting at is that for Arya to take on someones face she would have to kill him first.
I know that. I really thought the context in my comment before the alternate ending would have made clear what I was getting at.
I threw that out there for S&G.
And while Jon ultimately wound up making the right choice, had he stuck by Dany after her essentially saying Winterfell was next, Arya killing him definitely wouldn't be unwarranted.
I'll just leave this here. This is the greatest thing you will watch today:
Saw a few comments about Jon headed back to the Night's Watch. To me, that was the last well-executed trick by Tyrion in order for him to live out his days north of the wall. The final scene has Jon and Tormund headed to the true north as the hint of spring approaches.
I couldn't imagine Jon anywhere else. Winterfell? Sansa has earned it. Some other castle? Nah. Kings Landing? Stark men don't do well in the city. On the throne? He never wanted it.
The North or dead were his only two options
Was there any real point to Jon's lineage? 7 seasons of build up for R+L=J and it really only served as an incest plot to make Jon not want to marry Dany?
I don't think the incest thing really bothered anyone within the show. Its main purpose was to serve as a way to undermine Dany, and through him telling his sisters ultimately create another step in her isolation as she feels betrayed by Jon. Most people think his rejections of her are not based on the shared ancestry at all, but more about the situations at hand. He states he wants things to go back to how they were but is in that first instance consumed by feeling the need to tell his family. The second time he spurned her it was feeling unsettled after watching Varys burned to death. There is room to speculate otherwise, but this feels like the most likely scenarios. It is very clear he still loves her to the last from within the storyline.
Fair enough. It still seems anticlimactic to me. It just becomes one of the many reasons Dany became the Mad Queen and wasn't necessarily vital to her going that route. I think without it Jon would have still posed the same threat to her because everyone wanted him to be king anyway. He was King of the North, after the battle at Winterfell it was Jon who everyone was telling tales about and praising for his bravery.
I still can't believe no one brought it up at the round table negotiations.
Also was it established that Bran can use his powers without the weirwood trees? He would seem kind of useless in King's Landing if that is the case.
I'm honestly glad they didn't suggest Jon, saved us from the 100th time he has said "Ah dun wan et, I neva av"
lol true
yeah the whole R+L = J plot was a big let down after the reveal. It basically meant nothing other than to cause a divide and make Dany burn Kings Landing. Also what about Varys sending letters to everyone about Jon being the one true heir? Basically nobody gave a fuck. Hell, Sam, his "best friend" didn't event say good bye to him before he was sent away. What a shit-tastic way to end. Jon, in the end was utterly pointless except for him being the one person who could get close enough to Dany to kill her.
It would have made more sense for Tyrion to break out the trusty crossbow again after finding his bro and sis.
Honestly when tyrion was rearranging the chairs I half expected a crossbow bolt to take him out since we hadnt seen where bron had been.
The two things that still stick out to me that bugged me, was just unnecessary cheese: Sam trying to invent democracy and getting laughed at; and Sam breaking out the "Song of Fire and Ice" book
I've not watched the show too much, but this was one of the cheesiest and most awful things I've seen in entertainment. I don't understand the reasoning of them to pull this out at all. I understand that's the series of books or whatever, but on TV it just looks dumb, forced, and trying to sell copies. Correction, trying to sell copies of a series that GRRM won't even finish from the looks of it.
That's my least favorite moment in any movie or show...Let's say the title of the movie out of nowhere!
Granted, I know they did that as a nod to Tolkien which probably makes it worse.
The most frustrating thing to me was that there were moments in this episode that reminded me of why I fell in love with this show and this story in the first place, despite the obvious decline in writing for this last season.
- Tyrion genuinely mourning his brother and sister after finding their bodies
- the conversation between Tyrion and Jon was pure GoT gold. His reasoning about Dany was almost word for word what I said to my wife last week about how Dany has been that "Mad" Queen the whole time
- the shot of Dany walking out with Drogon's wings rising behind her
- Jon and Tormund going through the gate as a callback to the very first scene of the pilot that sucked all of us into this (for the most part) amazing piece of entertainment
But they were just too few and far between the last half of this season.
I am fine with the ending as a whole, but the route the show used to get there just had too many leaps and out of character moments
One of the greatest things, writing wise, about this show has been the character development of Jaime and his relationships with his family. I lost count of how many times I went from hating to loving his character. I liked how his defense of Cersei fit perfectly into Tyrion and Jon's talk about duty vs. love. And Jaime being torn between his love of Cersei and of Tyrion was a phenomenal plot line.
Yeah, I don't think Jaime's complicated character was too betrayed by his return to Cersei because it feels like a realistic action in spite of how much he has grown as a character since the beginning of the story. I do think they missed an opportunity for the Valonqar prophecy, and I hate that he said he didn't care about the innocent people of KL despite the most important part of his character's past being that he permanently sacrificed his honor to save all the people of KL from Aerys.
That said, I think the person most screwed over by that decision was Brienne. There was no need to give a crying in her night gown, spurned by the douchebag "hit and quit" guy scene to her. Their relationship was excellently constructed to that point where they did not need that fan service sexual encounter. Their connection was powerful without that.
I'm not sure how much he said in his speech while spurning Brienne were his actual feelings though. I feel like a lot of that may have been said to try to soften the blow of him bouncing.
What he said being true or not is irrelevant to the scene being unnecessary on Brienne's end. It's just a cliche spurned female moment that undermined the strength of her character for very little purpose. You can have her being upset about Jaime leaving without it being in that context.
You're preaching to the choir. I agree with you, it wasn't needed. The power of their connection was already there. The sex scene kind of cheapened it. Brienne would have been begging him to stay with all the same urgency without it. I think it may have been a product of such a crowd demand that Brienne either hook up with him or Tormund.
I'm also in the camp of Brienne and Jamie's sex scene being completely unnecessary, same with Arya/Gendry. They just felt like forced moments to give fans what they wanted.
I know that D&D had met with GRRM to get the main plot points before writing the final seasons, so I think Jon killing Dany and Bran ending up on the throne will be how the books end, I just think how he gets there will be completely different and make much more sense.
D&D knew the ending and had to figure out a way to get there and I think most people would say at this point that they shit the bed with that task at this point.
I will note there were some satisfying moments they did give us the last couple seasons, mostly notable IMO the take down of Littlefinger which I personally loved.
Disagree on the forced moments, I think two virgins having sex on the eve of almost certain death is hardly forced. As far as Arya/Gendry, its throwaway sex for Arya, and Gendry is clueless to Arya's real nature, so no issues with those scenes. Brienne and Jamie hooking up is yet another chance for Jaime to choose a decent path instead of his usual train wreck choices, and true to form he disses decency and chooses his dysfunctional family again, and even acknowledges what a despicable person he is for doing so.
And yes.....BEST. SHOW. EVER. for. seven. seasons.
Peter Dinklage's acting has been nothing short of spectacular. Really carried the show, especially in the latter seasons.
Can we discuss for a second the trailer that played right before the episode last night? I was all set for a new Aaron Paul series set in the future that echoes a little bit of the Blade Runner/Altered Carbon mindset. And then boom, Dolores and its Westworld 3.
You know, just to remind you not to cancel HBO
I'm going to finish up True Detective Season 3 and then Chernobyl. I'll see how I feel about it after that.
If I had to pick only one non-sports network to subscribe to, it would be HBO. Nobody has as much good content.
Hell I was thinking it was some kind of Tron adaptation for a minute lol
I am very much on board for this.
So I loved the first season, then dropped out of the second season. While this preview was playing I was like Holy shit I need to watch this then they dropped the WW season III and I was shocked.
I guess I need to catch up on the second season now, or at least read a summary.
Lol, I told my wife last night, if I was Bran, my first order as king would be to stop fucking calling me Bran the Broken.
"And my hand shall be Tyrion the Small," should've been his response.
Ok, one more
Okay so one theory that would explain it all and save what happened in the show:
Bran is an evil motherfucker and so are all three eyed ravens before him. What he wants is power n shit or maybe bringing chaos to the world idk choose what you want. He went back in time and manipulated most of the events to this point. He warged into Drogon and burned the city while Danaerys was helpless on his back. Danaerys didn't want to admit that she lost control of her dragon so she played it off as cool as she could (would also explain why she looked surprised after burning the city).
There's more to the theory HERE, I'm not in love with it but honestly ties together what happened in the last few episodes better than just suspending your disbelief for the sake of enjoying the show.
Along this theme, there were some that thought because he had been touched by the NK that he would at some point turn into a White Walker. That would have been insane if he turned right after his coronation. This is an alternate ending that I thought may actually play out for a bit last night.
That's a possibility or another angle it would explain the Night King's motivation for raising an army and trying to kill Bran. He wants to protect his people from the greatest threats to their existence: Bran and Danaerys with her dragons. He's a greenseer so he'd be well aware of everything taking place south of the wall.
I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed.
Jon being a Targ... meant absolutely nothing.
Bran being the 3ER... meant absolutely nothing.
Dany liberated innocent people for 7 seasons... for absolutely nothing.
Prince that was promised... nah Arya killed the NK.
The NK being an existential threat for 7 season meant nothing, he killed less major characters than Ramsay Bolton.
But hey, at least we got a council with no setup scenes for a democracy and Edmure Tully joke to pick Bran as king who has said he can't be a lord. Super yawn.
Ramsey Snow was the best damn character on the whole show. Period.... Bar None... I loved watching his sick, demented, morbid mind work. As soon as Ramsey was dead the show turned to shit. Anybody else notice this?
I didn't say he was a good guy. I said he was the best character. He's the only character I've seen in a solid role that you had no fucking clue what crazy shit he was going to do next. Elevate your game folks.
So in an effort to offer constructive criticism, here's what I would do differently in the last two seasons or so. Note - I'm not trying to make the show more like the books, just to eliminate and replace stupid parts of the show.
As someone who hasn't read the books, and just likes the TV show, I'm very much okay with what happened. I'm annoyed by how it happened. I think all the fixes I suggested would've resulted in a much more cohesive story, without many additional episodes (3-5 tops).
This is my Choose Your Own Adventure theory illustrated.
If the last two seasons were GRRM source material, we would be fine with it. It's not, so we want to rewrite it. GRRM screwed D&D, they never had a chance to finish this strong because nobody would ever agree their path to wrapping up the multitudes of loose threads from GRRM was the appropriate direction.
Agreed, I wish a few things were fleshed out a bit more but I'm surprised so many people think GRRM is going to finish the series better. He hasn't managed to in 8 years and the last book was not that good to begin with. Just glad that Ghost had a happy ending!
Not bad. What if instead of the people of kings landing just turning on her and throwing rocks, they somehow kill Rhaegal with a still standing scorpion while they're fairly immobile. Just have the dragons burning the iron fleet in the Bay before they attack the city. OR have the iron fleet get ONE surprise volley of scorpion shots to kill him fairly early in the battle and the people cheer. The death of Rhaegal and cheer from the populous sets her off.
These aren't even things I've thought about much but I feel having a dragon die in front of her when she's so close to the throne would be more believable than what happened.
There are a bunch of good theories out there about this whole deal.....lets just go ahead and make one thing clear. A series should never end with fan connected theories.
Not happy at all with Bran being the king, and Jon going back to the nights watch(or I guess with the free folk?). The whole deal the council made with Greyworm made no sense, him and the unsullied shipped away to Naath, how the hell are they gonna know if Jon actually went to the night's watch or not. Also Jon didn't want to be king, if they wanted to punish him couldn't they have just made him king? or even king in the north? he didnt want either. I did like him being the one to kill Dany though. Also it's interesting that Jon's ended up killing both women he's loved (Ygritte and Dany)
Jon was going back to the "True North" like Tormund and Mance both said he should do. He walked in to Castle Black, said "WTF are we doing here?" and walked out the other gate. The Jon arc was really good, IMO.
I'm less enthused about the Bran arc, but there weren't a lot of other options if Tyrion wasn't going to do it. Although Edmure Tully disagrees.
I don't think he actually killed Ygritte, though. Did he? Didn't the kid shoot her with an arrow?
Indirectly, because he trained Olly. But you are correct. Both women he loved died in his arms.
oh, I guess I didn't remember correctly, they were fighting right before she died though right?
Training the kid that killed her in the end is a tragic way of doing it honestly. Gotta feel that had to have fucked him up as a character I really wish we had seen more of the character development between scenes in the last few episodes I would have loved to see how the found jon and what was said and done inbetween to see how he reacted to all that he had just done. the ending was fine and all but it feels so rushed that it dissapoints.
Jon didn't kill Ygritte, the kid that betrayed Jon later did.
For those interested, here's a quick fan fiction epilogue posted on Reddit. It's pretty good.
oh...so they did rebuild the wall - as a wall of text.
It was removed, because the kneelers on r/gameofthrones don't allow fan fiction, but the OP reposted it on r/freefolk. It was quite good.
New link here
Fookin kneelers
I dont understand the 6 kingdoms thing. Yara is there representing the Iron Islands which isnt a kingdom, it was part of the "isle and river" until what ever war separated them. Yara isnt the leader of a great house (though has the naval power that is needed for defense of kings landing). So since Tully was there we assume that he runs the riverlands. So wouldn't that make Bran the king of 7 kingdoms?
1) Iron Islands
2) Riverlands
3) Eyrie
4) The rock
5) The Reach (who's there now?)
6) Storms end
7) Dorne
So what's up with the riverlands and iron islands because they aren't really kingdoms since they were forged after the targaryens United the kingdoms into a single kingdoms, so basically how does that all work?
I don't think Dorne was ever apart of the Seven Kingdoms and they probably aren't going to still.
They were part of it, they just weren't originally there. But why would they get a seat at the table at the end?
Hmmm... Seems you're right about that. Maybe I was getting confused with they were never conquered. Anywho according to the interwebs these are the 7 Kingdoms:
1.The Kingdom of The North (Ruled by House Stark)
2. The Kingdom of the Mountain and The Vale (Ruled by House Arryn)
3. The Kingdom of the Isles and the Rivers (Ruled by House Hoare)
4. The Kingdom of The Rock (Ruled by House Lannister)
5. The Kingdom of the Reach (Ruled by House Gardener)
6. The Kingdom of the Stormlands (Ruled by House Durrandon)
7. The Princedom of Dorne (Ruled by House Martell)
Yes, but iron islands and riverrun were split after Aegon united the kingdoms. Though they never had a king (or queen) of their own. But basically there are 8 major houses in Westeros at the start of the show controlling what were the 7 kingdoms. At the end they have 8 people to represent those areas (principalities for all but the north).
Sansa - North
Sam - Reach
Robin - Eyrie
Yara - Iron Islands
Tyrion - Rock
Uncle Tully - Riverlands
The guy at the end - Dorne
Gendry - Storm lands
EDIT: I didn't mean end, I meant at the deciding of King scene. Sam isn't dressed like a maester, Tyrion has been captive so he couldn't give Castley Rock to Bronn yet.
This perfectly encapsulates one of my many eye rolls this episode.
Actually at the end of the show, Bronn represents the leadership of the Reach, as Lord of Highgarden - if the tradition of the Lord of the Reach being seated at Highgarden continues.
I thought it was odd that Sam was present at the grand council representing the Reach (or was he representing the Maesters of Old Town? - that could explain why none of the grand maesters were present). Cersei elevated House Tarly, but there's no way that was recognized by Dany & her allies. And on top of that Sam took the black and renounced his claim to House Tarly's holdings. Merely defeating the white walkers doesn't absolve his vows..
Sam is Grand Maester, who always sits on the Small Council. The Maesters don't get representation, per se, but the Grand Maester is always an advisor to the king or queen.
At the very end Sam is on the Kings council as a Maester, it is unclear his role at the selection of the King.
Gotcha. I misread the previous comment.
Given that Sam is back in the black uniform of the Night's Watch, my guess is that he is assuming the role of lord commander of the NW at the selection. The NW deserves a vote for their role in defeating the army of the dead and one could also argue that the lord commander is one of the great lords of the realm. He traditionally has a castle and a maester, so that ranks him up there with the others.
I completely missed that Bronn got the Reach, in my head I heard he was Lord of the Rock. So I assume Tyrion is Lord of the Rock.
Sam is the Grand Maester appointed by Bran, or Tyrion with authority of the King. The rub is that the King is the only one with the power to pull someone from their duty to the NW which both shows how stoopid this ending is where they promise someone like Grey Worm to send Jon there and keep that promise and how much of a dick Bran is because he could at ANY TIME pardon Jon from his sevice as well.
Absolutely terrible ending.
But i saw an interview with Martin who alluded that the books will in fact be much different.
I don't even think the assignment to the Night's Watch was really all that legit. It was just a way to satisfy the Unsullied by 'punishing' Jon. It seems pretty obvious from the closing sequence the intention was always for him to move north of the wall with the Wildlings, where he belonged (per Tormund). And since he's officially part of the watch he officially can't be a threat to take the throne again. Although at some point the North could name him King in the North again, since they're independent... ugh.
Yeah for sure that was the intention but like you say... Ugh. If he was going to be let free of the wall then just let him be free. He is actually the rightful heir and technically all those that voted for Bran commited treason so he doesn't even need to accept the NW sentence. They are just playing up the Jon is honorable plot line. If he is so honorable then shouldn't he be counted on not seeking it if they tell him he can't? And Bran might be worried he would seek the throne but all those others that followed him and then counted on him to do what's right to kill Dany should have been supporting him. Instead they all stab him in the back. Sam says nothing. Davos says nothing... I mean seriously... So dumb.
Well how legit is the night's watch now? The wall is the border of the north and the free country, the North is it's own kingdom, Thus Bran has no control over the Wall/Nights Watch. I guess this is a trade agreement between the 6 kingdoms and the north. But you'd think Sansa has the control of the Nights Watch.
EDIT: The nights watch existed prior to Aegon the conquor so you would assume it's a North thing and since the north is separate they dont have any jurisdiction over Sam as he is from the Reach. Once Robb was declared King of the North the rest of Westeros didn't actually have to participate in sending people to the Wall.
Care to share?
I would also be interested in this, because everything I've seen from George is his typical prevarication. His latest "not a blog" entry (http://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2019/05/20/an-ending/) says this:
Basically, people need to stop listening to what he says and wait for him to (hopefully) finish writing.
Ah this is the source material of the article I saw. I was looking more at this quote though:
To me it sounds like he is saying that the books will be very different but somethings will obviously end the same. It also reads to me like he knows fans are unhappy but he is being gracious to D&D for what they did.
Up until now, GRRM has always said that D&D did know how he intended to end the books and they had gone over the major points of how he intended to wrap up the book. I think GRRM, seeing how spectacular of a failure the show ending was is now rethinking the ending for the books.
The failure of the series ending wasn't the what, but the how it got there. He may not need to rethink the ending, just the run up to it.
I think there are solid arguments that "the what" was also part of the problem with certain things. I wouldn't be surprised if he was considering changing parts of the ending even before all the backlash from this season as he is a notable "pantser" who prefers to let character and plot movements/turns generate organically from the growth of his characters throughout the story. This writing style makes him particularly susceptible to plot/character arcs that are "re-written" many times over during the process of writing the story, regardless of the way this season has been received. However, all that to say I do agree that the primary failure of this season was how they got there, the writing and execution was certainly the problem in making these endpoints feel earned and believable.
There will also be unicorns apparently that will play a big part of the last two books. I think how the show ended is what he told D&D the major outcomes for the characters would be but of course he now has the ability to change that if he wants.
forget this answer. Edited out because it's so distant from the question it won't make sense to anyone.
Whoa there, pump the brakes. This is waaaay outta line.
I missed the finale, but did the Rebels destroy the Death Star?
Yes, you are very cool for not watching. I bow before you.
Reading through all of these posts has been fun, but all I can think of are comments about online recipes.
.
*** OMG this recipe couldn't be more delicious... *****
I replaced the chicken with beef, and I don't like curry so I replaced it with Worcester sauce. I didn't have any noodles, so I reconstituted grape nuts and added prunes because I add them to everything. I have tried other laxatives but nothing works like prunes. I really can't stand the taste of prunes, but THEY. JUST. WORK.
I think there was some sort of weird interaction between the prunes and the grape nuts, so I can't give this 5 stars...
the comments are not as bad as the long aimless posts before the author gets to the actual recipe. I wanted to find a simple recipe to pickle some turnips, and instead I got a meandering narrative about the Syrian refugee crisis and I'm like man...I just want to know how much salt to put in this brine.
I, too, find my gears grinding over this. Stupid people "starting a cooking blog to make money". Except they're one of a million people doing the same. Just give me the damn recipe...
The biggest letdown for me was the Golden Company. They felt like, you know when you're in the grocery store and all you've heard about are these banging new cookies that look all fancy in the bakery and they have free samples sitting out but when you open the container they're all gone so you think they must be great but when you go to grab some and they're all sold out but then you're like cool, I'll get a rain check but when you go to customer service they tell you "nope, sorry. These were limited edition and we won't ever have them again". You know, that feeling.
And you need to add "No Elephants" to that list too.
Be still my heart.
Someone on reddit finally finished the honeycomb and a jackass joke and it was worth the wait.
via GIPHY
This is the kind of closure I needed the most.