In January of 2018, I threw my back out while picking up a little piece of paper off the floor at the ripe age of 33.
At the time I was working out regularly, and running. I had a little pain in the area, that I thought was from running.
I could barely walk as my I had shooting pain down the front of my leg, and after a few months and chiropractic adjustments I regained my all movement in my leg, but still retained some dull pain.
I ended up going to do some PT, which has helped me strengthen the area in my back, but the pain still persists.
I do my back exercises every morning, just to get it warmed up, but the pain eventually comes back.
Just this month, I found some excellent stretches that help my back feel amazing.
The best thing, I have found is standing up instead of sitting down. This has lead to some other side effects. My feet feel terrible at the end of the day, even standing on top of 2 thick yoga mats.
I also cannot sit down for any period of time. If I sit, the pain comes back with in a few minutes. Not sure how to stop/fix that. I would like to get to a point where I can sit every once and a while, and I am working on my posture.
Any tips or pointers would be greatly appreciated.
Comments
Proper shoe inserts. Make sure your arches are supported and it will have a ripple effect all the way to your shoulders.
I will say the best thing you can do to alleviate the pain is get on a regimen of regularly doing things to strengthen your glutes and hips, they are the true culprits for the back injury you described. Resistance band, side stepping, both directly to the side and forward and backwards in wide, angled steps are really great. Bridges, and proper form single leg bridges are great as well. All of those exercises can be performed easily at home, and you can order/buy a pilates/resistance band for cheap. Those are things I learned from PT after injuring my back in a similar manner from a weightlifting injury and that led to frequent recurrences of the very painful and debilitating injury you are describing.
Some Youtube videos can also be great for stuff like this. If you type in lower back pain, there will probably be like 5-6 AthleanX videos pop up which explain why your back injury is caused by weak glutes and hips and how to strengthen those areas.
I do band work, bridges, stretches, etc. every morning. It doesn't last the whole day, but standing has really helped and I am sure they are strengthening the muscles that were weakened by being in a desk job.
Perfect, now it's just a matter of time unfortunately. Over time, that pain that would come back from sitting should become less frequent or largely go away altogether. Unfortunately, if this has happened once, there is a good chance that it could happen again and you'll have to go through the whole process again.
I'm not a PT, but those were just things that worked for me. Trying to live your life with a neutral spine position at all times is also very helpful over time. A lot of people develop an anterior pelvic tilt for a number of reasons and that helps contribute to weak glutes and strain on your lower back. Trying to be mindful of a neutral pelvic and neutral spine position throughout the day can make a big difference over time.
I partly agree.
Step 1 - Dead lifts. Use the hex bar to start off with, and then once you get the strength switch to a regular bar once you have the form.
Step 2 - In addition to strengthening the quads/glutes/back/shoulders, there should be equal amount of abdominal work put in. In my personal experience my back issues flair-up when my abs in at their worst, and thats generally because the back is having to compensate for crummy strength up front.
I agree with both of these things. I wasn't trying to suggest you shouldn't do either of those things.
1) I'm cracking up at this post being on TKP
2) I'm your guy, I went through two years of back pain.
So I'm not sure what your PT or quackopractor told you (I hate chiropractors, refused to see one), but the pain down your leg is most likely your Sciatic nerve. It's probably being pinched somewhere up near your SI joint, which is where your spine connects to your pelvis, or even lower in your hip flexor area.
Stretching the right places and staying active are going to be key. At least go on a walk a few times a week. After my back pain (which ranged from the SI joint up to my QL muscle by my rib cage), running and stretching were what cured me. There are plenty of online resources for stretching that will help Sciatica or any sort of sciatic nerve pain. I didn't deal with that luckily, so you're better off searching for what feels best for you.
Hope that helps man, back pain is a real b*tch especially when you're still young.
EDIT: Chris above has great points too, sciatic nerve runs right through the hips and glutes.
It wasn't sciatic, as the pain didn't travel down the right nerve path as the pain shot down the front of my leg.
I'm deathly afraid of running again, though running on a tread mill hurts it more. The back pain originally appeared after while training for the Broadstreet run here in Philly.
It tends to feel not so great after running when I attempt too.
I need to go back to the gym and do deadlifts, squats, ab work etc. Maybe just strengthening the area will help.
You're exactly right. There are a handful of nerves that go into the legs. Sciatica normally impacts the back of the leg. I have issues with lumbar 4 and 5. Sounds like you might have issues with lumbar 3/4.
People just automatically think of sciatica when there is pain radiating into the leg, but that's only one of a few nerve branches that impact the legs.
do
not
neglect
stretching
when dealing with lower back pain the focus areas for improving strength and flexibility are
- upper & lower back itself of course (usually people overtrain the 'front' of thier core (abs, pecs, etc)
- hamstrings
- hips,
- glutes
Well, if you refused to see a chiropractor, then you're the loser there. How do you know you wouldn't have gotten relief? Wouldn't take much research into athletes and back pain to find out how many trust the chiropractor and as is stated later in this thread, some of us credit the chiropractor with keeping us moving. I get if it doesn't work for you, but how in the world would you know?
More than a few of my friends have been to one in the past, and they still go to this day. But that's the point, you always have to keep going back, whereas a PT tries to get you well so you don't have to come back.
Nope. I went when I hurt, didn't when I didn't, and apart from my great dentists over the years, I got more bang for my medical buck from my chiropractor in dinky Pearisburg, Va. She always was willing to give me advice on exercises and stuff I could do. You don't need a PT to do that. I'm not saying it's the only way to go, but no, you don't always have to keep going back. At least I didn't. But if my back went out tomorrow and stayed for a day or two, you can bet I'm seeing my chiropractor and expecting relief.
I had a PT that got me straight and most symptoms have disappeared! I have been using her exercises for the past 3 years. Guess it is a function and problem.
Edit: She is so Qualified!
I'm in the same boat. Almost exactly as you described.
Subbed, as I haven't found a good remedy either.
I'm telling you bite the bullet get a stand up desk. It helps a great deal. Trying to work out these kinks.
I've found that standing is so much better for me as well - to the point that I can be relatively pain-free until I try to drive home from work.
I'm attempting to talk my employer into purchasing a sit/stand desktop for me since our cubicles don't allow for a true sit/stand desk. They're trying to tell me that the budget is too tight for it.
Depending on the size of your employer, just getting a doctor's note means they will have to get you one as it's considered a reasonable accommodation under ADA. I got one to help my ADHD, so it's worth a short. And mine is a desktop unit and I love it.
That's where I am. Pretty much pain free until I sit down to drive or eat or something. The standing does wonders.
I have for the past year (maybe 2). It's weird. It happens when I stand for excessive periods of time (particularly when washing the dishes, I know, weird). It ceases (or disappears altogether) when I sit or lie down. Bayer helps (though I don't take it daily or even weekly).
I'm 41. I have 5 herniated disks (first was at age 24), spurs, degenerative disk disease, psiatica, etc. I could have multiple surgeries to try to fix things that may or may not work. I have every pain rub known to man, pills, heating pads. I bought a portable tens unit on amazon and an inversion table.
https://www.amazon.com/Massager-Lifetime-Warranty-Rechargeable-Stimulato...
If I do those both at the same time I can get some temporary relief. The inversion table was maybe $180 at Dicks and the tens unit was maybe $40. I hate for anyone to have to go through back stuff. It's horrible and can bring you down a lot.
Ditto on the tens unit. About 40 bucks at CVS or Walmart. Also a great investment cause you can use an any area having muscle or nerve pain......neck...legs....arms...feet....
Wife has a destroyed shoulder, thanks to some folks with ties to VT and football, but I digress. Her tens unit really can help when things get tough for her and the meds don't suffice. Well worth the bucks.
Regarding your feet, What's your attire for work? If dress shoes, get really good inserts (talk to your doctor). If running shoes are fine, find a good running store that does Gait analysis. This won't be critical to you but they should have better knowledge than a sporting goods store on specific shoes that will help support your feet.
Look at Hokas for a really soft, comforting shoes. They were designed originally for ultra runners, but they are starting to enter other markets including nurses and other jobs with people on their feet.
I just started working from home this month. I setup a "stand up desk" by pulling out a drawer in my dresser, putting a lap desk in and plopping my labtop there. I hooked up my TV as a monitor and work from that.
I am not wearing shoes. I have 2 heavy thick yoga mats on the floor that I stand on. I just added a yoga block to stretch my calves when I feel the feet hurting, literally today.
You should wear shoes a majority of the time if you are standing if you are seeing foot pain. Going barefoot is good for you if you can handle it, but unfortunately some people's bodies cannot do it. Even for running errands look into some shoes. Go to a running specific store and talk to the salespeople. Prepare to spend >$100 as they typically don't do discounts on shoes. You should buy from them first and once you find a pair, if you need to save money buy online after. Most stores don't have a refund policy per say, will make it right by letting you exchange shoes straight up or for a heavy heavy discount if the first pair is not comfortable after a week.
I've been there, starting in my late 20s, and I've been pain free for over a year. Here's what has worked:
1. Yoga, especially poses that align your hips.
2. Good shoes with the proper inserts with arch support.
3. A standing desk WITH one of the super nice, cushy standing mats, not yoga mats.
4. Stretching.
5. Bike riding. (This may not work as well for you as my pain was sciatic related and the bike really helped me get moving in the right areas.)
Going to get the standing mat
do not cut corners on shoes, do not cut corners on shoes, do not cut corners on shoes...and swap an exercise ball for your desk chair when you aren't standing
One thing I have concluded is that every person is different and back pain can be caused by infinite numbers of things. For me, better shoes when exercising, stretching 2x as much as you think you need, and working to strengthen my abs has helped. I do use a chiropractor but I can't say with certainty it has helped more or less than the other things above. Deep muscle massage did help dramatically when I pulled a lower back muscle so badly that my body tensioned up to make me look like a question mark.
Anybody have any success with inversion tables?
I have never thrown my back out doing anything significant. It is always a minor movement, which is odd.
I have an inversion table. My back is beyond repair at this point and it still gives me temporary relief. I'm sure someone with lesser injuries could benefit even more. If you have high blood pressure don't stay inverted more than a few minutes though.
It's been a long time since I had real back pain, but a few tips that helped me. I got an inversion table - it helped. After seeing a few chiropractors that I would describe at quacks, I tried another - largely because my insurance would cover it - who actually helped a lot. He was able to identify where the specific nerve was being pinched, and teach me exercises that targeted the right muscles, instead of just cracking my back and trying to make me a lifelong customer. He did also do hip adjustments while I was there. I got a new mattress. If you sleep on your side with a non-supportive mattress or too firm a mattress it can put pressure on where your hips join the spine. I bought a stand for my computer screen to raise it up to sitting eye level so I was not hunched when at work. When it hurt badly I drank enough gin to relax the muscles before sleeping, which helped me sleep on my back. I snored like a freight train, but it helped my back. And yes - gin works for this much better than bourbon - not sure why.
Thanks for the chiropractor comment. I won't bore you with my story, but an early teen injury gave me years of intermittent trouble, finally culminating with pain that kept me from working for stretches at a time. 1st time it was so horrible, I went to the doc who suggested PT and gave me tylenol and I was out of work for almost six months. The second time, my wife dragged me to her chiropractor and she got me straightened out and back to work in six days. I never did the regular thing with her, just showed up when I was hurting, but she always fixed me with an adjustment or two. Being careful to use my stomach muscles when lifting my boat battery helped me a lot, but in the end, it was rowing a boat for a living for 10 years and losing 35lbs that seems to have pretty much kept me out of back trouble now for many years.
Don't listen to the "Quack" stuff, a good chiropractor is worth their weight in gold and if they can fix you, it beats the hell out of weeks of PT and misery. Get some local advice and give one a try. Good luck.
I wouldn't be able to walk right without my Chiropractor. Honestly, he helped me get to the point where it was just a dull constant pain and not shooting pain that traveled my entire leg.
I'm really sorry my comments won't help you, but may serve as a cautionary tale for someone else reading this: Over 30 years ago I thought I was strong and invincible and was used to anything I damaged healing rapidly, so I insisted on forcing myself to shovel too much snow too long at the wrong angle. Have had to do daily exercises to this day to avoid pain returning due to two herniated disks at the base of my spine (this does not sound like what you have described as you would not be able to stand up straight for at least a week if it was). Just lucky I've not had to have surgery yet which would greatly limit my activities. Your spine is not like many other parts of your body: when it issues pain warnings please STOP doing whatever you're doing immediately. I know this sounds dumb, but it can make one heck of a difference for the rest of your life.
After jacking my back up years ago in Afghanistan, with a lot of the same problems you are having, I found that the combination of chiropractors, Restorative Yoga and Electroacupuncture have helped me the most.
I don't know if this has been suggested or not, but I have a co-worker who swears by the inversion table.
My wife dealt with this for years... Exact same problems that you are dealing with... Physical Therapy, Chiropractor, Lumbar Injections, Pain Medicine... For years.
The MRI she had showed a degenerating disk which UVA said they could fix, but it wouldn't really solve the problem. We got a second opinion when she finally couldn't do anything (she was literally lying down all day) from the very reputable Virginia Back And Spine group in Winchester. The Dr. told us exactly what he saw on the MRI, said he could fix it, and told us she would walk out of the hospital. The surgery took place two weeks later, my wife walked out of the hospital, and she hasn't had any pain since (that was in 2017).
I guess what I'm saying is that if you've tried everything, maybe a good surgeon is the answer. Spinal surgery has made significant strides in the last 15 years.
Worked for DDP
One of DDP's success stories, Arthur, is in this youtube link:
https://youtu.be/qX9FSZJu448
Kidding aside, yoga is legit but more importantly for core strength and flexibility. You're only as young as your spine is.
I came here to post this exact thing. DDP Yoga is incredible. I've been doing it for a while now. 30 minutes of standing on a mat is the best workout I've ever had.
Been having back issues since I was 18. Also had 1 surgery already. I'm no body builder but I'm not out of shape, but working out only did so much. My core wasn't the strongest, but it wasn't poor either. My pro tips:
1. Constantly get up and down - don't sit down for long. You don't want to aggravate your back even more when it hurts.
2. Stretch at your desk! I'm doing this now as i speak by sitting on one leg and stretching my quad, but I also bend side to side to stretch my QL area all the time.
3. YOGA!! Extremely underrated. I go as often as I can to my gym even though I may the only guy in class of 20. I've been stretching my psoas muscles and my glutes more and I've gotten so much relief. Speaking of which, make sure you stretch those areas as well as any other muscles around your back (eg: hammies, quads) - they all work together like that.
Yoga, by far, has been a god send to me. Wish I started doing it earlier and I cannot recommend it enough.
Hope for a good football season; winning fixes everything.
You should have preliminary results tomorrow.
I've found that swimming (slow to moderate pace for at least 30 minutes per workout - generally at least 3/4 mile) does wonders for my lower back pain. It is a form of exercise that stretches and strengthens your back and related muscle groups while actually producing very low stress on those areas.
My back pain sounds different, but Stretching is #1, Matress is huge, Chair at work is huge, exercise is big too (lifting, swimming) and shoes are important.
P.S. my swimming was competitive, doesn't have to be that way but I was in the pool 8+ hours a week.
It's amazing what a good pair of shoes can do. I would get sharp pain in my arms and legs until I stretched, but when I actually went out and bought a good pair of shoes everything went away. The chiropractor also helped because I was wearing out one side of my shoe faster than the other due to some weird spine/hip situation.
Had regular back pains ND other types of general soreness prior to a few months ago. Got a couple of awesome massages, which helped temporarily, but when I realized my bank account wouldn't be able to keep up, I started yoga for the first time in my life.
Currently on my 165th straight day if yoga (anywhere from 10 minutes to 45 minutes) and I haven't had an ache since.
And that's bad? Because?
Seriously, I do work out but 1/2 of it is stretching.
After slipping a disc at the ripe age of 24 I learned the importance of core strength.
Recovery: nothing was better for me than dry needling. It's magic.
Prevention: don't skimp on core workouts while still trying to squat/dl/ bench.
What a thread. I was just complaining this morning that my back was killing me after 1k+ miles in the car in the last week. Luckily, my wife is a PT. Unfortunately, she specializes in trauma rehab.... Burns, gunshots and the like. Time to get back to more exercises and stretching. One thing I've learned is how interconnected everything is and although it may be the lower back that's hurting, the cause is often elsewhere.
hurt my lower back planting a garden. was using a mechanical tiller and moving it sideways. felt a *pop*. it hasn't been right since. chiropractor was able to free it up for the most part but it still hurts.
for the most part, though, i've been able to treat it effectively with the occasional couple of ibuprofen pills and a whole lot of dead lifts and squats. i do a program 3 times a lift, stronglifts 5x5. it's bench press, overhead press, backsquat, row, and deadlift. do each 5 times, 5 sets. lift heavy. i usually go and do kettlebell swings and kettlebell front squats as well. sometimes get on the cable pull down machine and bang out 3 or 4 sets of 8 or 10 at whatever is challenging by that point. then go sit in hot tub and alternate with a leisurely dip in the lap pool.
if i go more than a week without lifting, like taking a week, it starts to hurt worse. i'm always prone to having it hurt more and get stiff quick if i sit too still for too long or ride in the car for more than 90 minutes. and i can't comfortably lay on my stomach anymore. at 44, i can still deal, but i'm dreading the prospect of needing more medical intervention right now.
It sounds as if you had a disc slip/rupture initially at about the L2-4 level which would correspond with pain in the front of your thigh.
Most of the time (85%+) these disc issues will respond to conservative therapy (rest, meds, PT, stretching, +/- chiropractic). Usually this type of pain is WORSE with standing, better with sitting.
Now it sounds as if you may have evolved to more of a stenotic process (tightening of the bones) about your spine/nerves. This can happen after your body over-'heals' from injury. Typically this type of pain is WORSE with sitting, better with standing, as you described.
The way to determine is imaging (xray, then maybe MRI), but a good physical therapist can provide great relief with stretching, nerve stimulation, massage, etc. Meds can give you relief, but they are only a bandaid. Also, consider injection therapy. Last resort is surgical fixation.
First, let me preface this with "I am a doctor." (I am actually) And I don't believe in voodoo and neither should you do. That said, there are many aspects of pain - there is the actual initial injury (disc herniation, pulled muscle, etc.) followed by the body's inflammation that causes release of chemicals that trigger neurons to tell your brain that you are in pain.
There is an entirely different component of pain related to memories formed by the brain. This aspect of pain has a (wait for it) predominantly psychological component. I promise, I'm getting to my point.
I want you to take a leap of faith and buy a book called "Healing Back Pain: The Mind-Body Connection" by John Sarno. I know, I know - sounds ridiculous - but it has helped a lot of people including my initially highly-skeptical brother who had a herniated disc requiring multiple epidural injections. He looked at me after reading for several days and said "Man. This is insane. My back is already feeling better while reading this book. Insane."
Just so you know, this is not taking anything away from the actual insult that occurred to your back - rather, it is a book that helps one identify the process of pain that continues in the brain well after the insult has healed.
Again, take a leap of faith - give it a try - I hope it helps you. Back pain is horrible and chronic for many people. If you read it and buy in to it, please let me know if it helped you at all.
Go Hokies. Beat the Eagles.
Mine would go out about once a year. Felt like a rubber band snapping on my lower back and then I would be locked up. I bought a Roman Chair and that seemed to be the right fix for me. Only cost around $50.
No, but do you know what's good for shoulder pain?
Bourbon and ice?
The ice is on the shoulder not in the bourdon
https://youtu.be/Tibdx2baMJ8
I had a friend that had horrible back pain for years and it turned out, after many doctors visits, it was just an inflamed prostate
I need to not think too much about this...