Outliar. Other than Saban and Kirby, what defensive coaches have had recent success? Dantonio? Chris Wilcox at Cal?
Urban, Dabo, Herman, Leach, Peterson, Riley, Mullen, Jimbo, Gundy, Franklin, Moorhead, Gus all come from the offensive side of the ball.
EDIT to clarify:
I'm okay with hiring a proven head coach who was previously a DC, but I am NOT okay with hiring a first time HC who was previously a DC. Recent evidence shows that this is not often a good hire:
The 2018 AP top 25 included 6 coaches who were hired from their DC role to their first HC role (Saban, Kirby, Mark Stoops, Pat Fitzgerald, Luke Fickle, Kirk Ferentz), compared to 14 Head coaches who were OC prior to becoming first time head coaches.
The 2017 AP top 25 included 7 coaches who were hired from their DC role to to their first HC role (Saban, Kirby, Patterson, Pat Fitzgerald, Charlie Strong, Dave Doreon, Mark Dantonio), compared to 13 Head coaches who were OC prior to becoming first time head coaches.
The 2016 AP top 25 included 4 coaches who were hired from their DC role to to their first HC role (Saban, Mike McEntire, Rocky Long, Kyle Whittingham), compared to 17 Head coaches who were OC prior to becoming first time head coaches.
There's clearly a trend, especially in recent history. My theory behind this is that most OC's are trained to be proactive, while most DC's are trained to react to what the offense does, and that to be successful as an HC, you must be proactive.
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I agree with Gary Patterson. Kelly has only been an HC at the college level, so I don't count him. Ed O was never a coordinator. I don't think Ferentz is as good as other coaches listed.
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He's had one 10 win season in the last 10 years despite being in one of the three easiest P5 divisions. He's won the division once since the B10 split into divisions. Hasn't won the conference since 2004.
He does not coach a perennial top 20 team. His teams are top 20 once every three years.
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Depends on how "recent." I would say Gene Chizik is recent enough, although he fell off since that '10 season. And Bob Stoops did pretty well overall at Oklahoma, I would say.
Re: Urban - he played DB and has coached both sides.
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I'll push back - Chizik won on the back of Gus and Cam, and probably the best example of a one-hit-wonder in the last 15 years of coaching. Regarding Urban, I'm completely open to someone who has coached both sides of the ball.
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To be clear, my list wasn't coaches who jumped directly from coordinator to their current HC job; it's people who jumped directly from coordinator to their first college HC job. Example - Saban wasn't a DC before bama, but he was a DC before taking HC role at MSU.
There's no reason why we should take a risk on an unproven defensive coach, when statistically there is less risk with an offensive coach.
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I agree with your point. I'm just also asserting that there is also a lot of risk in hiring a G5 or FCS coach to their first P5 gig. Sometimes it works out big, but I would wager most of the time it is a lower percentage shot. Especially in recent years.
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Well, we could have hired an up and coming coach in 2016 only to find out he was vastly overrated and the most talented coaches on his staff stayed at Memphis and now we are left with a hack that is running our Program into the ground.
Oh, we did actually do that....well sh**
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I mean, it doesn't get much worse than Duke being up a million, running a fake punt, and we let the punter run free untouched out of bounds. Show some fucking pride and light that dude up. Who cares about a penalty. You just got stunted on and you're doing nothing. This team is S-O-F-T
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Hate to say it but i wanted to see some hits on their qb when he ran. I know the smart thing is to not get a penalty but he was faking a slide and then getting more yards. Light that dude up
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I saw way to many times where linebackers and corners and safeties were just waiting until the player caught the ball then ran up to make the tackle. They could have very easily cracked them.
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I fully realize how classless this is for me to say, but if you run a fake punt up 28 late in the 4th quarter against me in my stadium and then go for it on 4th down so you can score another TD, I'm taking someone's knee out.
Yeah that makes me a bad person, but I bet you won't pull that shit again.
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Truth is - it could be worse - and from what I've seen it is going to get a LOT worse. We will have to bottom out. We're not even close. This team has so many problems they can't be listed. We were spoiled. As Chet from weird science put it, "time to pay the fiddler"
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I'm not on the Fire Fuente train yet either, but...if some serious staff changes don't happen at the end of this season, then I'm done. When all is said and done, his loyalty to the program has to outstrip his loyalty to the friends that work for him.
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We are a proud program. Period. We play for conference titles, and the off chance, a shot at glory. Dicking our way to a 500 record ain't it. Former players have a right to be upset and post their feelings online. Former coaches have a right to ask questions. Alumni should be pissed. Current students just don't know.
Now, this season isn't over, but the ship needs to get back on course. Otherwise, next year could well be a lame duck season for Fuente.
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Next year could be a lame duck season for Fuente.... If the current downward spiral continues the rest of this season, I can't fathom how we could allow Fuente to coach next year. VT cannot afford to allow the current Shit Show to continue. Not holding my breath, but I do hope to see a turnaround over the rest of this season.
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If we can't go bowling with the EASIEST schedule in all of college football, then I don't think the lame duck season even happens. That might be my meds talking, but I'd rather pay the buyout, and get right with the Lord.
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I don't understand this mindset (even if it exists within the athletic department).
Lets look at the numbers.
Fired after December 15, 2019: Buyout is $12.5 mil. Fired after December 15, 2020: Buyout is $10 mil Fired after December 15, 2021: Buyout is $7.5 mil
The picture is clear, each December 15th the buyout drops by $2.5 mil.
If we wait two more years (till the end of 2021), it theoretically saves the school $5 million dollars. But what happens if ticket sales decline to the tune of $2 mil to $3 mil per year each of those years? Thats a total of $4 mil to $6 mil dollars. That doesn't take into account that the Drive For 25 will continue to lose valuable momentum over these next two seasons.
In short, the school won't really be saving any money to wait. It may actually cost more.
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also, isn't the yearly buyout reduction just what we paid him that year in salary? We aren't saving money, we're allowing ourselves to spread it out. THEN on top of that you have the losses you listed.
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That whole situation is nuts. Also like how Pruitt doesn't understand how a football player is getting arrested and says he never had to deal with that at other places.
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Speaking of angry artificial intelligence, for the game against Duke, Virginia Tech engineering students brought out a robot to do the traditional post-score pushups. But after a final score of Duke 45, VT 10, a beating so bad it landed the Hokies in the Coveted No. 5 Spot, that android still had plenty of battery power left. So, after the game, they put it to work cleaning Lane Stadium. Around midnight, it was seen leaving the grandstands covered in popcorn butter and tobacco juice and muttering something about, "This is how the Terminator started."
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Comments
First loss to a school in North Carolina couldn't come at a worse time.
Frau Blucher!
I'm done. The whole staff needs to go.
Need to get a defensive HC who can build a program.
https://twitter.com/i/moments/1177764975114412032?from_editor=true
Statistically speaking, over last decade Defensive HCs have performed a lot worse than offensive HC
The GOAT is defensive though.
Outliar. Other than Saban and Kirby, what defensive coaches have had recent success? Dantonio? Chris Wilcox at Cal?
Urban, Dabo, Herman, Leach, Peterson, Riley, Mullen, Jimbo, Gundy, Franklin, Moorhead, Gus all come from the offensive side of the ball.
EDIT to clarify:
I'm okay with hiring a proven head coach who was previously a DC, but I am NOT okay with hiring a first time HC who was previously a DC. Recent evidence shows that this is not often a good hire:
There's clearly a trend, especially in recent history. My theory behind this is that most OC's are trained to be proactive, while most DC's are trained to react to what the offense does, and that to be successful as an HC, you must be proactive.
Brian Kelly, Gary Patterson, Ed Orgeron, Kirk Ferentz
I agree with Gary Patterson. Kelly has only been an HC at the college level, so I don't count him. Ed O was never a coordinator. I don't think Ferentz is as good as other coaches listed.
Would LOVE Kirk Ferentz. Perennial top 20. Produces a good product and flies under the radar
He's had one 10 win season in the last 10 years despite being in one of the three easiest P5 divisions. He's won the division once since the B10 split into divisions. Hasn't won the conference since 2004.
He does not coach a perennial top 20 team. His teams are top 20 once every three years.
Depends on how "recent." I would say Gene Chizik is recent enough, although he fell off since that '10 season. And Bob Stoops did pretty well overall at Oklahoma, I would say.
Re: Urban - he played DB and has coached both sides.
I'll push back - Chizik won on the back of Gus and Cam, and probably the best example of a one-hit-wonder in the last 15 years of coaching. Regarding Urban, I'm completely open to someone who has coached both sides of the ball.
I mean you could probably find the same thing about coaches hired directly from G5 schools instead of having prior HC experience at a P5 school or NFL
To be clear, my list wasn't coaches who jumped directly from coordinator to their current HC job; it's people who jumped directly from coordinator to their first college HC job. Example - Saban wasn't a DC before bama, but he was a DC before taking HC role at MSU.
There's no reason why we should take a risk on an unproven defensive coach, when statistically there is less risk with an offensive coach.
I agree with your point. I'm just also asserting that there is also a lot of risk in hiring a G5 or FCS coach to their first P5 gig. Sometimes it works out big, but I would wager most of the time it is a lower percentage shot. Especially in recent years.
Ah I see - I mean, coaching hires are pretty difficult to predict in general. The key is to minimize risk.
If this isnt trying to be an opposite response to the end of Beamer I dont know what to say.
We have been working all week on setting up a new haunted house in Fredericksburg. I put our offense in there.
Why? They don't scare anyone.
You sure? I was pretty damn terrified.
appalled != terrified
I couldn't tell you what could be worse. I also couldn't tell you what the dog damn problem is. We just suck so bad.
Well, we could have hired an up and coming coach in 2016 only to find out he was vastly overrated and the most talented coaches on his staff stayed at Memphis and now we are left with a hack that is running our Program into the ground.
Oh, we did actually do that....well sh**
I mean, it doesn't get much worse than Duke being up a million, running a fake punt, and we let the punter run free untouched out of bounds. Show some fucking pride and light that dude up. Who cares about a penalty. You just got stunted on and you're doing nothing. This team is S-O-F-T
Hate to say it but i wanted to see some hits on their qb when he ran. I know the smart thing is to not get a penalty but he was faking a slide and then getting more yards. Light that dude up
Ladled had a legit shot early in the second quarter and pulled up.
I saw way to many times where linebackers and corners and safeties were just waiting until the player caught the ball then ran up to make the tackle. They could have very easily cracked them.
I fully realize how classless this is for me to say, but if you run a fake punt up 28 late in the 4th quarter against me in my stadium and then go for it on 4th down so you can score another TD, I'm taking someone's knee out.
Yeah that makes me a bad person, but I bet you won't pull that shit again.
Truth is - it could be worse - and from what I've seen it is going to get a LOT worse. We will have to bottom out. We're not even close. This team has so many problems they can't be listed. We were spoiled. As Chet from weird science put it, "time to pay the fiddler"
Leg for the reference.
We are most def a nice greasy pork sandwich, served in a dirty ashtray.
Our punter was an All-American today, so it wasn't all bad.
Our punter is from down under....and he's our all American. We should just punt on first down.
Maryland is now losing
45-059-0.Yes, it's small consolation, but I have to cling to what I can find.
I'm curious have you flipped to the fire Fuente train yet?
I'm waiting as well.
No.
But his seat is a bit warmer, and I'm hoping he's thinking about making some changes to the coaching staff.
So you're only a couple episodes behind, you'll probably catch up in a couple weeks.
I'm not on the Fire Fuente train yet either, but...if some serious staff changes don't happen at the end of this season, then I'm done. When all is said and done, his loyalty to the program has to outstrip his loyalty to the friends that work for him.
Kinda makes me glad so the "JJ was so great" crowd can't spam their crap
We're still 2-2...shrugs, that's all I got.
Absolutely not.
We are a proud program. Period. We play for conference titles, and the off chance, a shot at glory. Dicking our way to a 500 record ain't it. Former players have a right to be upset and post their feelings online. Former coaches have a right to ask questions. Alumni should be pissed. Current students just don't know.
Now, this season isn't over, but the ship needs to get back on course. Otherwise, next year could well be a lame duck season for Fuente.
Next year could be a lame duck season for Fuente.... If the current downward spiral continues the rest of this season, I can't fathom how we could allow Fuente to coach next year. VT cannot afford to allow the current Shit Show to continue. Not holding my breath, but I do hope to see a turnaround over the rest of this season.
You may have a better chance of just seeing turnovers the rest of the season.
If we can't go bowling with the EASIEST schedule in all of college football, then I don't think the lame duck season even happens. That might be my meds talking, but I'd rather pay the buyout, and get right with the Lord.
THIS
We are 0-4 ATS this year
and 0-4 against our souls
It can't be worse--UVA are looking like an excellent team vs ND. They're unlucky to be trailing.
Also where we're you when TKP died for 5 hours?
5 hours. Rookie numbers
Haha it came back up for a bit then crashed back out for the rest of the day.
Coul be worse. TKP could be down
yea, I'd normally be upset at these down times,. but everything's so negative now, it keeps my depression at bay.
Unfortunately it will get worse as we have at least 2-3 years more of this crap until the buyout gets reasonable...
I don't understand this mindset (even if it exists within the athletic department).
Lets look at the numbers.
Fired after December 15, 2019: Buyout is $12.5 mil.
Fired after December 15, 2020: Buyout is $10 mil
Fired after December 15, 2021: Buyout is $7.5 mil
The picture is clear, each December 15th the buyout drops by $2.5 mil.
If we wait two more years (till the end of 2021), it theoretically saves the school $5 million dollars. But what happens if ticket sales decline to the tune of $2 mil to $3 mil per year each of those years? Thats a total of $4 mil to $6 mil dollars. That doesn't take into account that the Drive For 25 will continue to lose valuable momentum over these next two seasons.
In short, the school won't really be saving any money to wait. It may actually cost more.
also, isn't the yearly buyout reduction just what we paid him that year in salary? We aren't saving money, we're allowing ourselves to spread it out. THEN on top of that you have the losses you listed.
I thought we were paying him closer to $4 mil, so its actually costing us more by $1.5 mil if my memory is correct.
Well, we could still be playing ECU. This might not have been a good year to have to play them.
Lucky for us Tennessee continues to set the bar really low for rock bottom. Player arrested and tells cop where he comes from they shoot the police.
And it only got worse when Pruitt didn't understand why they had to arrest him when there was a warrant for his arrest.
Tennessee LB arrested
This gem:
So, we suck at football.....
But it seems we have some good kids trying to get better at a game so I'll try and support them.
That whole situation is nuts. Also like how Pruitt doesn't understand how a football player is getting arrested and says he never had to deal with that at other places.
The white uniforms were sweet. Hazelton looked good on that TD.
Lane is pretty great at night.
We're in ESPN's Bottom 10 this week (Link Here):
Is this our first time ever in the Bottom 10?
No no, we were in there when the game against JMU didn't happen
We've been in there before. I remember it a couple times when I was a student upwards of 15 years ago
What horseshit. Everybody knows that real Hokies swallow their tobacco juice. Geez.
Is this a new weekly thread? I hope not...
At least we don't have to forfeit the season because of injuries
Forfeit
Amen brother
BTW, did you follow the link for the basketball team? Jack Taylor drops 138 pts single game
Yeah, that's pretty insane!
every time I see this thread I keep reading it as Jeremy Clarkson going "Still...... Could be worse"