The offense got outgained by 226 yards and scored largely because of the short fields the defense provided them with turnovers.
1st Half Drives:
8 plays 48 yards TD (from an interception)
3 plays 5 yards PUNT (from an interception)
2 plays 23 yards TD (from an interception)
4 plays 20 yards TD (from a fumble)
12 plays 80 yards TD (from a punt)
10 plays 26 yards PUNT (from an interception)
2nd Half:
3 plays 9 yards PUNT (from kickoff)
3 plays -1 yards PUNT (from kickoff)
3 plays 2 yards PUNT (from punt)
4 plays 80 yards TD (from punt)
3 plays -4 yards PUNT (from kickoff)
3 plays 1 yard PUNT (from kickoff)
5 plays 63 yards TD (from kickoff)
The offense had SIX three and outs on 13 drives.
21 of our points came off turnovers on drives of 48, 23, and 20 yards.
The second half our offense did their best to assist in Miami's comeback and tire out our defense thoroughly. An old school BF defense could handle this (though they never should have had to as often as they did), but we know this young defense cannot.
The problems on BOTH sides of the ball are still present.
I am more optimistic after this game for the offense. If we can get Hooker more comfortable with the passing game and get our WR's back involved we could see some of these issues resolved.
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Correct, this is my point. Which is why it's absurd to blame the 2nd half collapse exclusively on the defense as if the offense wasn't trying to set PR's for how quickly they could put the defense back on the field all 2nd half.
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An old school BF defense could handle this (though they never should have had to as often as they did), but we know this young defense cannot.
Just my thoughts:
1) We have a 21 point lead coming into the second half. CornFu probably though: No need to throw the rock around, lean on the running game. Leads to conservative offensive play calling.
2) Running game was god awful in the second half. Production was especially awful with King (12 caries, 19 yards) don't know if this is on King, O-line, CornFu etc. Leads to a lot of 3 and longs that are obviously difficult to convert.
3) Defense gets tired out just due to sheer TOP, Miami is able to come back.
If we were stronger in the run game, no chance Miami has enough life to come back. I envision this week we get back to fundamentals in the zone running scheme and we're going to run the ball a fuck ton against URI.
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1) We have a 21 point lead coming into the second half. CornFu probably though: No need to throw the rock around, lean on the running game. Leads to conservative offensive play calling.
2) Running game was god awful in the second half. Production was especially awful with King (12 caries, 19 yards) don't know if this is on King, O-line, CornFu etc. Leads to a lot of 3 and longs that are obviously difficult to convert.
This is almost certainly their thought process (your point 1) and the result that followed (2). However, Miami has an incredible run defense. They stacked the box and were 100% prepared for us to run in the 2nd half and they consistently won the battle at the LOS and overall against our run game. I would have liked to see us utilize some of the more creative stuff we showed in the 1st half to move the chains and give the defense a break. I agree with the strategy in a vacuum, but we haven't been able to consistently run the ball this year, so there was little reason to think it would work to telegraph a bunch of obvious runs in the 2nd half against a great run D.
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I would have liked to see us utilize some of the more creative stuff
I assuming you mean "QB Runs/Run Options" when you say "creative stuff".
I actually was OK with the play calling. You finally have a spark at QB and you don't want to risk HH getting hurt. Doesn't make sense to expose him to "unnecessary hits" with a 21 point lead. You can't fully trust a first time starter to know when to slide and wen to run out of bounds (not a knock against HH specifically. I think Russell Wilson is one of the best at knowing when to slide/avoid hits. If you watch the tape of RW as a r-Fr at NCST, that was nowhere near the case).
It made sense to hand to rock off to King and McClease. Of course, that's assuming they're capable of moving the chains against (like you mentioned) a really great run defense.
In retrospect, throwing QP in there in the "3rd and Logan" packages had some merit.
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Bud also refused to blitz every time we had them in third and a million which happened a lot in the second half; they would then have ten seconds to throw while we only rushed three.
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I see the similarity in TOs, but I'm not quite sure what's the point of the comparison. The BC team went +5 in TOs and only won by a TD so we are like them? Unfortunately that BC team was stomped by Kansas (!) in the that same stadium two weeks after so I don't see it as a glamorous comparison.
I'm absolutely stoked the Hokies showed perseverance and the defense made fantastic plays in the first half. Additionally, the offense showed sparks of life after the play book was opened a bit.
But I'm terrified after watching them turn 5 turnovers into 21 points and then subsequently watching the defense and offense collectively fold in 4 minutes of game time to turn a blow out into a tie game. Miami was 10yds and a 2pt conversion away from handing us a loss in horrifying fashion.
I hope the rest of the season is more like the team that put their nose to the ground and grinded out huge plays.
But I'm petrified that any given play will throw the team into a wild downward spiral they can't recover (see '18 ODU, ND, GT, PITT, MIA, '19 DUKE)
Unfortunately I have my reservations because Fuente and his staff honestly haven't earned my unwavering, jump on the everything is fine bandwagon support.
I genuinely hope they do, but until then, Go Hokies!
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They showed some fight! Which is way more than we saw last week! The second half performance concerns me, but we came out swinging and that's a great place to start. It did seem though that we were playing not to lose in the second half and we damn near did. We just have to go for it, and if we get beat, so be it, I'd rather go down swinging.
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Did VT blow a 4 TD lead? Yeah they did...but for me it was more about the character of the young men wearing the uniform we love. They didn't quit, they didn't surrender, and for that I'll ride or die with them. We may win out, we may lose some, but today our team responded to adversity and as long they do that I'm okay. Let's Fucking Go...
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Basically Miami gave us the game with those crazy turnovers. We were more lucky than good really. We still were outgained by over 200 yards. A win's a win I guess, but this game could be a huge outlier in the end.
Yes and no. We played not to lose in the second half. The Hokies were trying to win with the clock with a ton of plays where we only rushed 3.
If on second down in the first half, if we had run it instead of taken the sack then I bet we run out the clock because Miami doesn't call time out on 3rd and 3; that wipes out giving up a hail mary. The clock in the last 5+ minutes was very screwy. If the 5th INT stood, then we probably coast to a win as well. We were far from dominant but also played not to lose (and still almost lost).
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Yeah, that 5th Int would have easily changed the game. The defense looks better than last year, but it just feels like our offense doesn't help them out at all. We scored our last way to fast and put the defense back out there. Miami won the time of possession. We had one possession at 6 minutes, one at 4 minutes and the others less than 2 minutes.
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We can't clamor for the hurry up offense one day and then talk about how they scored too fast another. I think of an offense puts up 35 points... defense should hold on. Not hating on any of the players though.. played one helluva game and I'm proud of all of them.
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We scored our last way to fast and put the defense back out there
We've reached the point where we're blaming defensive woes on the offense for scoring? I mean... what? Bud went full 2007 BC prevent on the last drive and it played out eerily similarly. I have no clue what he was thinking because when Perry had all day, their WRs were getting open regardless of how many we were dropping in coverage. We had consistently gotten pressure and sacks even with a 4 man rush.
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The defense was on the field for 19:10 of the second half, almost 60% of the time. While the scheme seemed to not help after the first play, we sent a defense back out there constantly in the 2nd half. Not just the final drive.
We are averaging 29 minutes 23 seconds of TOP on the season ranking us in the 70s. In 2017 when we have a top notch defense we held the ball more than 32 minutes for the 12th best TOP. We even had a positive TOP last season. We have only won the TOP in the BC game and by a fair margin, you take that out and we are around 100th in TOP.
So yes, our defense would be doing much better if they didn't constantly have to go back out on the field after five 3 and outs, a 4 play TD drive, and a 5 play TD drive.
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TOP looked at in a void isn't a very useful stat. I'd be interested in yards per play and total plays stats to get a better picture of why TOP was skewed in certain ways. My hypothesis is we were better in TOP last season because the defense gave up TDs so quickly and this season the defense is forcing opposing offenses to drive the field more often. That's a form of improvement but yet the defense also contributes to TOP as it's their responsibility to prevent methodical drives and get off the field.
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Our second half possessions were 5 3and outs, 1 4 play drive and a 5 play drive. our offense left the field quickly. I dont have a stat but this year feels like a lot of 3 and outs on offense. We also have a lot of turn overs which put the defense back on the field quicker than expected.
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My opinion is that people make excuses for the defense which they would never consider making for the offense. We run down the play clock instead of running hurry up all the time? Wrong move. We run the ball to take time off the clock and control possession? Wrong move. If the offense ran full hurry up, threw 3 passes, and had to punt the ball after taking 24 seconds off the clock, people would be apoplectic. The offense takes the brunt of the blame for any issues no matter what.
The defense made huge plays yesterday and was a big part of winning the game. That doesn't mean they didn't have some terrible moments as well. The offense went 3 and out too many times but they also took advantage of short fields to score TDs, not field goals, which was huge, and came up big at the end of the game as well when the defense had faltered. It took a team effort to win the game.
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2017 defense has no excuses, but the offense had a freshman QB, 1 WR that was injured, and not much of a run game. So the offense got the excuses. The defense had to ball out because the could.
But for a defense with 1 senior and a bunch of freshman DTs playing, you can't rely on them the same. The offense was supposed to be the strength, but it hasn't been. We need our offense to do better than 3 and out so the defense has time to rest.
The better unit needs to take care of the worse one.
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Youth is more excusable for the defense when our starting defense averages 3.36 years of college level experience compared to the starting offense averaging 2.45?
Willis was the only senior starting on offense and one could make a nearly identical argument the other way by saying we are playing tons of freshman OL and you can't rely on them.
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Other than Bud going turtle and Hewitt's brain fart, there was a lot to like. Defense was much more aggressive except at the end of both halves; and they pursued well. Tisdale is a massive upgrade. Corners were very solid. Griffin is going to be pretty good. The guys broke more tackles today than we have in a long time. Hooker's decision making and athleticism was a welcome relief from the last 20+ games. Overlooked by many, King's kickoff return on the last drive was very important.
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Tisdale was everywhere! Conner showed up everywhere. Farley looked good except for the 2pt where if he knew who was behind him he would have made the play and the one TD where he got turned around, but he had a lot of great knockdowns, Ints, and a couple really nice tackles.
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Five 3 and out drives in the second half when the coaches decided to go conservative. Two drives for TD's when the coaches opened up the offense. Do you suppose CornFu noticed?
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I don't think that's an accurate reflection of the game itself. We attempted passes on several of the 3 and outs and had open receivers with a chance to convert for a first down; however, we missed some throws and had some drops. That's NOT going conservative- those are the execution errors Fuente has mentioned (and yes, I know many can't stand to hear that and pin it all on the coaches regardless).
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I will have to check; but I think the passes were mostly, if not all, on later downs with long ytg after trying to run up the middle on early downs. I checked. There was only one pass on first down, a swing pass for 1 yd. the other series were all run, run, pass.
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Just because we ran twice doesn't diminish the importance of converting when the 3rd down play provides the opportunity for success. This is hard to describe, but I'm thinking of it as a next gen stat type of thing where a QB with a given amount of pressure throwing to a WR with a given amount of separation has a certain likelihood of being completed. If the QB has a clean pocket and the WR creates separation on a 10 yard route, that play should be made >90% of the time.
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Running twice up the middle to a stacked box for 3 straight drives doesn't diminish the importance of converting the 3rd down. It just makes that 3rd down exponentially more hard to convert, especially with a young QB whose strength is not passing.
I'd be fine with running on 1st and 2nd down if we mixed it up and ran off tackle, ran a counter, speed option, hell even a jet sweep, or a fake off of a jet sweep. We did simple inside zone handoff into an 8 man box which essentially conceded 3rd and 8+ which old generation stats have proven to be low probability situations.
This gave Miami life. Going into halftime with the shot in the arm via a Hail Mary, you know their coaches stressed taking care of the ball and getting some stops in the 3rd quarter. We couldn't have made that easier for them and halfway through the 3rd quarter Miami thought they were going to comeback and win. They were jumping up and down on the sidelines and the crowd got back into it. Meanwhile our players and coaches looked tighter and tighter as doubt began to take over and the defense wore down.
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We won, on the road, vs Miami's. So absolutely. It wasn't the perfect game, but a win is a win. To the people that didn't watch... I hope you come back to support our team
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This game still showed how far this team has to go. It does raise several questions. Like why did it take so long to pull Willis? Why our D still got shredded even with all the turnovers? Why did we go ultra conservative and piss away an entire quarter? How did we almost blow a 28 point lead? Is Miami worse than us or did they just have a bad day?
I think this team is still a far cry from where it needs to be, but it was nice to see it have some life instead of getting beat like a red-headed step child.
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You say "Why did it take so long to pull Willis", but after watching Hooker for a full game, I'm just so confused as to who the better QB actually is. Like, Hooker's stats were not anything to write home about - 10/20 passing for under 200 yds, 76 yds rushing (though he showed a decent spark of playmaking ability that Willis has only hinted at a few times). At the same time, he accounted for 3 TDs and made some plays happen by himself. To be fair, a ton of Hooker's TD plays came from turnovers in the first half that gifted him the ball on Miami's 30 or better, so not a ton of yardage to cover.
Still, from my perspective (watching on TV at a bar with friends) Hooker had a tendency (well, more like a continuous habit) to overthrow almost every pass he put out there (most likely correctable if he learns the hard way in games, but that's probably half of the reason he was QB2 instead of QB1) - Willis, when he makes the correct read, is a MUCH better passer. At the same time, the team seemed to rally around and respond to Hooker in a way that they don't seem to with Willis, and that spark got them to give juuuuust enough of an extra effort to win the game. I mean, even on Hooker's first TD, all of the players swarmed him and were smacking him on the back/helmet/front/etc to hype him up for making the play. I've seen celebrations with Willis, but they just seem a bit forced.
So is it an issue of leadership? Would the offense play better with Hooker at the helm despite the fact that Willis is by far (based on today) the superior passer? If Hooker is a better QB in the sense of hyping the team despite overthrowing half of his targets and running a bit too soon sometimes, does the defense get more hyped just because the offense is vibing, regardless of the production on the field? I really have no idea what the right answer is, and I can only imagine how tough it is for the coaching staff now that we've all seen what QB2 looks like.
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Willis hasn't shown an improved FB IQ. He may have the better arm, but Hooker has a strong arm, made several nice throws, played within the game plan, did not make any critical errors, has better feet, and showed in my opinion that he has the better football IQ as a r-soph than Willis as a r-sr. The defense certainly made it easy for him the first half, but he converted TD's when he needed to. Both with the short field in 1st Qtr and then he went and won the game with a TD drive after Miami had all the momentum. Oh, and it was his first start, on the road, against a program rival.
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No chance. Are you advocating for Whit to sign Fuente to another 15 million extension after this? There is no chance a 28-0 lead shouldve ever gone down to the wire like it did. We've got plenty of problems, but thankfully we were finally the beneficiaries of another team turning the ball over and us getting some luck thrown our way. Offense did look better for sure, but if we play a team with a good defense, they are gonna shut the running game down and force Hendon to throw. Have a feeling there is going to be alot of overreaction to this win, however there are still plenty of holes in this team.
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On a positive note. We must have the best red zone TD conversion ratio in the country. If feels like every time we've been there we've scored. Problem has been getting there...
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No- this team is still soft and benefitted greatly from generally pretty shitty QB play by Miami. If they turn the ball over even just 3 times instead of 5, we lose that game. Being able to capitalize on Miami's mistakes was encouraging but Miami isn't some juggernaut of a football team
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They are however a P5 program that was favored by 14, is known for the energy they create at home (and away) when creating turnovers...not a juggernaut for sure, but have the talent to beat many teams.
Calling our guys soft is not warranted, but hey, go ahead with your bad self.
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no, 5 turnovers was nice
Having 0 turnovers was very nice change
Liked seeing TEs involved in the game, but the passing attack wasn't really that great overall.
D gave up a ton of yards and points
Gonna be a long season with every game being a toss up besides ND
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No... French will show you why this week. We should all be celebrating this win, but there are still some very troubling trends with this team on both sides of the ball.
Edit: Props to the coaches for getting the team to play for 4 quarters.
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Giving up big plays is still a HUGE issue for the defense but overall I sensed there were fewer gap fit issues. We lost Crawford for much of the game which was a big blow but we did see some life out of the DEs, even if Miami's OL is horrendous. Still plenty of room for improvement with missed tackles and blown coverages (and biting on fake screens).
The offense struggled mightily with the intermediate and deep passing game. Positives were that the O produced big plays more often than we've seen in a long time, the OL looked more aggressive and WR looked to be blocking harder. Take it as you will, but the team seemed to just play harder for Hooker out there.
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And honestly, for most of the season "proper gap fits" haven't been a huge issue.
The defense is what it is at this point. But I'm still struggling with long portions of the game offensively. We were stubborn with the inside zone and anything between the tackles.
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I'm not sure what is meant by overreacting. If you mean - thinking that the season will likely be a disaster based on performance to date, then hell no no one is overreacting. This team has major problems....BUT. Tonight they didn't give up. Players flashed brilliance. And while Miami may not be great, they have serious athletes. We went to work tonight and it paid off. But all our problems are clearly not solved.
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Yeah they totally did. Unfortunately expect some more overreactions because we've got two incredibly tough games coming up after Rhode Island, going 1-1 would be impressive. Four weeks from now if we lose to Notre Dame people will be right back calling for Fuentes head. I'll reserve judgement until the uva game. 7-5 beating UVA will be alright for me, that means taking one of: Pitt Wake and UNC all very tough teams.
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First half was great, but hated how both offense and defense played the entire second half like they wanted to kill the clock and ended up letting Miami back into the game.
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A win against the Hurricanes on their field after being (rightfully so) called every bad thing you can think of then yes its a good win. If Tech has issues what can you say about Miami. How about losers! And my wife is pissed because I watched the game and didn't take her out to dinner.
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Overreaction - yes, but understandable. Here is what I see has changed.
1) QB1 - captain obvious here. This team clearly needs a QB that has some elusiveness. H2 has got this and combined with a young Oline, no big RB and the scheme that Fuente wants to run having this option elevated expectations.
1b) There is something to how the team reacted to H2. Maybe he just has better relationships, maybe the team believes in his ability to score and keeps their energy or maybe something else. I will be interested to see how they react to when he struggles.
3) Garbutt in the game makes a difference. He draws penalties and almost always gets pressure when 1 on 1 in passing situations. If he stays healthy this helps, but if he gets hurt again this will hurt.
4). Tisdale is a playmaker. He did make some mistakes today (missed tackle on big RB Td), but his length and speed seem like a more natural fit at backer (love Dax, just think he is more suited to Mike)
5) more aggressive style on D. This team is young and trying to play position football doesn't seem like a fit. Committing and playing fast (even if a mistake is made) was a sorely needed change. High risk - high reward attacking style D seems to fit this personnel better - especially with the CB cover ability improved.
The team has no gimmes, so I will be watching to see if this builds confidence and they don't lose their edge they played with today. If the team builds confidence and the above changes stick, the expectations rise a bit.
I'm not saying we are world beaters, but I am saying a new QB1 especially allows this team a chance to win.
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No. This team is a work in progress. There is no realistic way a single game is going to represent a complete turnaround. But let's enjoy the fact that there's still some hope left. Will we struggle the rest of the season? You bet we will. This team still has a lot to learn. We've got to learn how not to play down to the level of our opponents. We've got to learn how to dominate for 60 minutes and never let up on the gas. But we found out we still actually have a gas pedal, we can hold onto the ball, we can capitalize on turnover, and D.B.U. has some ball hawks again. This team is a work in progress. But last week made it seem like progress was out of the question. Maybe not? I plan on enjoying this one. It's going to be an interesting ride.
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Here's my 800 pound gorilla. And maybe it's second guessing but I was asking myself the same question in week 2.
But....What on earth has Fuente been thinking not giving Hooker tons of play time (working on in game pass accuracy at game speed etc). When he had ODU and Furman to work with? What does that say about the coaching?
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We have the weakest schedule in the P5 this season, maybe we make a bowl first and then we can judge if everyone in America was overreacting to what seems to be a 4th straight year of regression.
Plus nothing is going to fix the small AND extremely concerning recruiting class, regardless of our record. Thats still out there too.
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No. There are still issues on both sides of the ball, a missing toughness factor, a trend of getting blown out, rumblings of a culture problem that are too loud to ignore, and an awful recruiting class. Hooker gives me hope we can beat UVA whereas with Willis I didn't think we would win another game. But we blew a 28-0 lead and only clinched the win at the literal last second. Wins gloss over problems, but they are still there and Fuente is not our guy. I defended him all last year, however at this point I think he should be terminated sooner rather than later to stop the bleeding and get a headstart on the rebuild/recruiting cycle.
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AFTER TODAY, HAVE WE OVERREACTED THE LAST COUPLE OF WEEKS
Absolutely.
Does the team have issues? Yes
Should there be concerns? Yes
Did that justify the hair on fire panic that was/is going on? No.
It has been hysterical here the past few weeks. Enough that I stopped coming for a while because the hot takes were going to damage my phone.
This win doesn't mean all is well either. There is still a lot of work to put in. But I saw improvements yesterday. They looked energized, especially on D, something that I felt has been lacking so far this season. It didn't look like we were sleepwalking through the game (except maybe the third quarter).
Note: I also didn't watch the Duke game since I was otherwise occupied. That may have tempered my reaction a bit since I didn't see any of how bad that game went.
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I mean we won the turnover battle 5-0 and barely won. If I was overreacting last week, I'm overreacting this week too. We didn't even win the time of possession.
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1-6 in last 7 ACC games, getting blown out in many of those and not looking competitive. Would Fuente have made the QB change if the fan base had been content and did not 'overreact'?
Fan sentiment will always be exaggerated one way or the other. But that is what makes a good and passionate fan base.
Fans didn't know what change was needed. So you had fans calling for QB change, for OC change, for HC change. Fuente made the QB change and we looked better and got a W. This team cannot afford turnovers and Corn will have to be creative and efficient for us to win games. Fuente cooled off the hot seat substantially with this win. But he and Corn need to prove that they can develop this team and demonstrate improvement over the next 7 games.
2-6 in ACC games now. Many of those non-competitive blowouts. A 28 point lead blown, but credit to Corn, he made some good calls on a critical drive late and Hooker and the team executed on said drive. We will need a lot more of that.
It took last season and an 0-2 ACC start with basically the worst lost ever in Lane for things to reach a fever pitch. The fan base had a perfectly appropriate reaction for a proud program.
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Seriously...I don't think that was the collective response from the fan base. Was the OP referencing that specific reaction or the collective reaction from the fan base. Come on man.
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I simply don't see how you could characterize it as a perfectly appropriate reaction considering nearly every thread included a personal insult directed toward Fuente. That was an egregious example but it was not the only one.
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First, TKP does not represent the collective fan base opinion. Second, an insult per thread is still not representative of the overall reaction. Third, Nothing that i said condoned personal attacks on Fuente. And yes, a fan base is supposed to over react. We're fanatics. It's kind of the point. Lastly, the majority of reactions I saw were fans expressing that they won't live with ACC blowouts, and that if it kept up without change a lot of fans would lose interest. Most reactions I saw to the Duke game questioned Fuente's ability to run this program. And it was legitimate to question that.
Again, the examples of personal insults do not amount to the average fan reaction. And I don't see how you can say the average fan reaction was to personally insult Fuente.
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Yes every negative reaction from tkp was an overreaction. We're not as bad as the Duke game and we're not as awesome as the past game. We're in the middle - it's the whole point of a young team and a growing year.
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I don't think so. I mean some people are cruel and make personal attacks, but generally putting the coaches on the hot seat was warranted. The team showed a bit of fight in the BC game, but was generally listless otherwise this season before yesterday. That fight, that fire, is everything. When you don't see it there is no hope. That's a coaches responsibility. Kudos to them for getting that back and responding to some adversity. I'll be impressed when I see that week in and week out regardless of outcome.
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No, other than Clemson the ACC is a bunch of average teams at best and we are among them. We likely beat URI and GT, lose to ND and split the other 4 games (UNC, Wake, UVA and Pitt) to make a bowl. Is the sky falling? No, but we still arent that good. At the very least we are more exciting with Hooker at QB.
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We could have played better, particularly in thew 2nd half, but we also could have folded once Miami gained some momentum and were getting all the questionable calls in the 2nd half to get them back in the game. Watching us with a big lead in the 1st half, I knew it was going to get close to make this a competitive game in the 2nd half. But I think the most important thing about this win, besides the team playing inspired ball around HH and HH playing a solid, smart game, was the response we showed in that last drive to give us the lead. We showed alot of heart that we've been missing for a while in that last drive, and then the defense stepping up when Miami had the ball at our 10. Now that was a good sequence of events that we should be able to build off of.
HH showed some definite potential in the game yesterday, and if he can build off that and get even better with his reads as he gets more experience, it will be a major plus for our team down the stretch as we look to retain the Commonwealth Cup and keep the bowl streak alive.
Taking nothing away from Rhode Island, cause we shouldn't take any opponent lightly, but I think this game should be a good primer for getting HH ready for the remainder of our conference games, along with straightening out a few things with our o-line and defense.
Also, shout out to Charmarri Conner, who played a hell of a game yesterday in my eyes. Looks like he might have come into his own yesterday, with Alan Tisdale not far behind.
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We scored 10pts at home against Duke...Pitt, who is no offensive juganot, scored 33pts...so my answer is NO.....we played a damn near perfect 1st half and then relaxed a little....but none of yesterday happens with Willis at the helm....
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Overreacting? Possibly. But this week we saw some emotion and the ability to withstand and respond to an opponent's incredible comeback which is really all I could ask for right now. Another collapse likely would have cemented this season and a couple careers. If anything I have a lot of questions on the play calling on both sides of the ball. Specifically, why we went in to turtle mode in the third quarter, and why the D seemed to go with a 3-man front for the remainder of the game.
Regardless, I hope yesterday was a confidence builder for the players and coaches.
What I want to see (need to see) is a clean game next week where we dont play with our food and take care of business. I want to see the 2nd team taking the majority of snaps mid-way through the 3rd, and QP needs to be behind center starting on our 2nd or 3rd drive of the third quarter. If that happens then I will be a little more comfortable with where we are heading.
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Miami gave us the game with their turnovers and stupidity, and they still almost won.
I'm excited that the team showed heart and effort. They showed resilience in the game, coming back from some bad calls.
+ The players played with effort and passion. They didn't fold in this game when Miami came back.
+ Fuente / Cornelsen made the switch to Hooker, crafted a good game plan around him.
+ Foster got the D ready to play, played well in the first half, played with effort, played tough.
+ The secondary played well mostly (Conner, Farely, Waller). Floyd was Floyd.
+/- Run blocking was better in the first half, O line was beaten like a drum in the 3rd quarter
+/- Hooker played great, needs to get the ball out quicker with our offensive line's poor pass blocking
- Inability to play complementary football in the 2nd half, the offense played too conservative.
- Hewitt roughing the passer penalty, negating an interception
- Giving up a Hail Mary TD at the end of the 2nd half. Rush four, please.
- Bad tackling on Miami's tying TD, plays run to the boundary where Miami's skill players had an athletic advantage
- Drop by Phil Patterson, when we needed to get 2 first downs to kill the clock at the end of the game
Miami is a more talented team. They weren't the better team yesterday. They gave us the game.
I suspect their coaching staff is worse than ours.
Let's see how the players deal with success and if Fuente/Cornelsen can build on the win.
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One thing I disagree with is Hewitt did not rough the passer. I think one of the announcers questioned that call as well. I think ur spot on with the rest of ur post.
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Was glad to see the fight in the team. I wasn't comfortable unless we had a 35-0 lead going into half time. When you've been a Hokie fan long enough I think you can just tell. Miami hit that luck hail mary and I knew it was gonna be a battle in the 2d half. Maybe not as close as it got but I figured they would close it up and we would have to keep pace to win.
As to turtle modes I agree with most as well. Although that's not on the players thats on the coaches. Not sure why we ran up the gut multiple times against a stacked box like there was 1:30 left in the. I mean we would have benefited if we had at least been able to chew some clock on some drives. It seemed like they scored and we would go three and out take about 30 sec of clock and then give it back. Then on defense, after getting constant pressure on Perry we decide to let him sit back with a 3 man rush. At least send 4 lineman or send a LB to rush him. Didn't understand it. If you're getting pressure why all of the sudden lay off the gas?
Anyhow, glad to get the win. Look forwrad to HH cleaning up some accuracy against RI and seeing team get a dominant win like we should have seen against furman and ODU.
Also don't forget Miami had a bye week before us. So there's that as well. Wasn't happy with the comeback but was happy with the effort the showed.
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Like many of you, I have been doing a lot of soul searching this season. I could embellish, but the essence of what Hokie football means to me is a team that believes in itself and leaves nothing on the field. Win or lose, I can count on them to be inspiration for my life: Put your head down, work hard, and find a way to make it work.
There is no need to chronicle the downward spiral of my inner football child, but I had given up on this team being something I could count on. I was moving on, dreaming of all the productive things I could do be doing instead of watching this hot mess... like figuring out the right balance between the costs of buyouts and empty seats.
Yesterday this team found it. They played like Hokies. I saw people giving second efforts and not giving up.
Downvote me if you want, but if they had lost in the end I would still have had a big ass grin on my face this morning.
Did I overreact during the first four games? Nope. Can I be proud of my Hokie team if they play like they did yesterday? Hell yes.
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Here here!! I almost renamed my dog Beamer...was going to start calling him Ghost - the ghost of what was once a great team. He's still Beamer, I'm still a proud Hokie. It wasn't a pretty 2nd half, but the team had enough fight to preserve the win.
Let's hope we keep fighting all season. It's cool if we take a few more losses...just need to see the fight all game.
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I think the frustration with Cornelson's struggles and Hooker not getting a chance were valid. I think a lot of people jumping ship and saying we're a 3-9 or 4-8 team was the overreaction, mainly because it was completely ignoring how up and down the rest of the coastal is.
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No, but HH leading a drive to take the lead gives me hope! Our D still sux (look at yards given up), questionable coaching to allow Miami back in game (3 and outs) or going into prevent mode way to early. I've heard prevent mode called prevent yourself from wining and it almost happened Saturday. One last thing the officials did their best to help Miami at the end of the game. Most of the game the refs are not terrible but the fourth quarter is questionable at best.
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I don't follow the live game thread, and also don't go back through it... but can someone explain the play where HH ran the ball and slid down inbounds and the clock stopped at 1:45 (or maybe it was 0:45)?
There was no first down. There was no timeout. He landed inbounds and the ref seemed to signal as such.
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Wow it's like the turnovers were fumbles dropped on the ground and our guys just fell on them... sheesh. Look at all of them, they were legit breaks in the ball reading the quarterback knowing where to be to make those turnovers happen.. there were no gifts there at all and the defense was good until they got gassed, started cramping then we had put in second stringers.
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The defense is a unit as a whole 1st or second string.... at the very least 2 of those ints were gifts on awful QB decisions. They still managed to get gashed for a couple big runs and gave up 469 passing yards. We'd lose by 3+ td without those turnovers and we barely won with them
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There has been a lot of talk on us playing not to lose rather than win in the second half. I was actually okay with that gameplan. We were rolling with a quarterback who had thrown two career passes heading into that game. With the way our defense had been playing, I think it was wise to minimize risk and start running the clock. When we needed to score again, we did. I just hope as Hooker gains more experience, our playcalling reflects a team trying to blow someone out of the stadium.
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One thing I have not seen brought up in the dozens of post-game posts is the probability that scUM took us too lightly and were thinking it'd be a cakewalk. Their rookie head coach either reinforced this attitude or didn't have the experience to counter it. Maybe they saw the Duke game, the Herbstreit "it's so bad" video and had already counted this as a W. Obviously our guys came to play and blasted them early & I am thankful for the improvement and W. I'm only pointing out that early-game sleepwalking by the U was a possible contributor to it. We still need to address a lot of the same issues of consistency, but hopefully we can do some more tuning vs. URI. I still see this as a 5 to 6 win team but now I feel much better about our chances in any game, especially LOLUVa.
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No. We won a game in which we won the turnover battle by 5 and had a 28-0 lead. We had to produce a late 4th quarter touchdown drive, followed by stopping a Miami drive to end the game.
It is certainly a step in the right direction. The team fought. They didn't fold, particularly when they faced adversity. That's more than we can say about last week. But giving up that lead is still very concerning.
Win convincingly against Rhode Island this week and play a good game against UNC the week after and then we can talk about whether we overreacted. Add this win to the pro-Fuente column if you want, but I still think you'll find the con-Fuente column has a few more tick marks in it at the moment.
I'm happy for our players. Happy for our fan base. I'm even happy for the coaching staff. They must've gone through hell this week and I know it must've felt good to get that win. But that staff has dug a pretty deep hole for themselves over the last 2 years. They took the first step towards climbing out of it but they still have a few more feet to go before I'm throwing them a rope.
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1st and goal with 1:08 left and UM only has 1 TO left. No clue why we didn't run the clock down to :02 and kick FG for win. No way it should have come down to those last 2 plays for them. Also up late in Q4 and snapping the ball way too early in play clock. "Prevent" defense needs to never be used. Feel like this has been an issue forever. Way too conservative offense late in game as others mentioned. These are the coaching issues that stood out to me.
Kids played a hell of a game though and the future looks bright for Hooker. Go Hokies!
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I loved the win, and it was truly an exciting game. I love competition,and playing good teams. I feel that teams only get better by playing tough , competetive teams.
I , however do not think all of our problems are cured from one game, one quarterback change, or one week of attitude overhaul. Teams will make adjustments against our scheme, and we will have to fight even more to continue our success.
Fuente has changed the ship's course for one week. His job is not done, and I hope he can continue to build on this past weeks' success. I hope we can keep getting better, but the team will have to grow more because the tape will tell the next team how to defend and attack our squad. Hooker and team played a great game, and it was an exciting win.
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Comments
no
Our D gave up 469 passing yds and 563 total yds. The D is still a HUGE problem.
The offense got outgained by 226 yards and scored largely because of the short fields the defense provided them with turnovers.
1st Half Drives:
8 plays 48 yards TD (from an interception)
3 plays 5 yards PUNT (from an interception)
2 plays 23 yards TD (from an interception)
4 plays 20 yards TD (from a fumble)
12 plays 80 yards TD (from a punt)
10 plays 26 yards PUNT (from an interception)
2nd Half:
3 plays 9 yards PUNT (from kickoff)
3 plays -1 yards PUNT (from kickoff)
3 plays 2 yards PUNT (from punt)
4 plays 80 yards TD (from punt)
3 plays -4 yards PUNT (from kickoff)
3 plays 1 yard PUNT (from kickoff)
5 plays 63 yards TD (from kickoff)
The offense had SIX three and outs on 13 drives.
21 of our points came off turnovers on drives of 48, 23, and 20 yards.
The second half our offense did their best to assist in Miami's comeback and tire out our defense thoroughly. An old school BF defense could handle this (though they never should have had to as often as they did), but we know this young defense cannot.
The problems on BOTH sides of the ball are still present.
I am more optimistic after this game for the offense. If we can get Hooker more comfortable with the passing game and get our WR's back involved we could see some of these issues resolved.
Offense feeds off of defense, and d off of o. The two are interconnected, it is why it is called a team.
Correct, this is my point. Which is why it's absurd to blame the 2nd half collapse exclusively on the defense as if the offense wasn't trying to set PR's for how quickly they could put the defense back on the field all 2nd half.
Just my thoughts:
1) We have a 21 point lead coming into the second half. CornFu probably though: No need to throw the rock around, lean on the running game. Leads to conservative offensive play calling.
2) Running game was god awful in the second half. Production was especially awful with King (12 caries, 19 yards) don't know if this is on King, O-line, CornFu etc. Leads to a lot of 3 and longs that are obviously difficult to convert.
3) Defense gets tired out just due to sheer TOP, Miami is able to come back.
If we were stronger in the run game, no chance Miami has enough life to come back. I envision this week we get back to fundamentals in the zone running scheme and we're going to run the ball a fuck ton against URI.
This is almost certainly their thought process (your point 1) and the result that followed (2). However, Miami has an incredible run defense. They stacked the box and were 100% prepared for us to run in the 2nd half and they consistently won the battle at the LOS and overall against our run game. I would have liked to see us utilize some of the more creative stuff we showed in the 1st half to move the chains and give the defense a break. I agree with the strategy in a vacuum, but we haven't been able to consistently run the ball this year, so there was little reason to think it would work to telegraph a bunch of obvious runs in the 2nd half against a great run D.
I assuming you mean "QB Runs/Run Options" when you say "creative stuff".
I actually was OK with the play calling. You finally have a spark at QB and you don't want to risk HH getting hurt. Doesn't make sense to expose him to "unnecessary hits" with a 21 point lead. You can't fully trust a first time starter to know when to slide and wen to run out of bounds (not a knock against HH specifically. I think Russell Wilson is one of the best at knowing when to slide/avoid hits. If you watch the tape of RW as a r-Fr at NCST, that was nowhere near the case).
It made sense to hand to rock off to King and McClease. Of course, that's assuming they're capable of moving the chains against (like you mentioned) a really great run defense.
In retrospect, throwing QP in there in the "3rd and Logan" packages had some merit.
Bud also refused to blitz every time we had them in third and a million which happened a lot in the second half; they would then have ten seconds to throw while we only rushed three.
I wonder If Fuente is calling some of the defenses. Not like Bud to let a qb have that much time.
Doubtful. Prevent is not something new to Bud's D.
The D is still a HUGE problem
Sorry I couldn't just let that lie...
You're over reacting to this game
no we almost blew a 4 TD lead
Which still puts us in a better place than Arkansas.
Buttttttttt
We didn't Fam!
If we had not given up a 28 point lead I would say yes.
No, but I am impressed the Coaches got the players up emotionally to play after last week and all the noise. There is something to be said about that.
They still have issues but this game showed me this team has a bunch of heart and they ain't gonna quit the rest of the year
We had a +5 turnover margin and still almost lost. I feel no more comfortable now than I did before the game 🤷🏻♂️
How many TOs did we have against BC and still love by the same amount of points? Not disagreeing with you, but just for perspective...
I see the similarity in TOs, but I'm not quite sure what's the point of the comparison. The BC team went +5 in TOs and only won by a TD so we are like them? Unfortunately that BC team was stomped by Kansas (!) in the that same stadium two weeks after so I don't see it as a glamorous comparison.
I'm absolutely stoked the Hokies showed perseverance and the defense made fantastic plays in the first half. Additionally, the offense showed sparks of life after the play book was opened a bit.
But I'm terrified after watching them turn 5 turnovers into 21 points and then subsequently watching the defense and offense collectively fold in 4 minutes of game time to turn a blow out into a tie game. Miami was 10yds and a 2pt conversion away from handing us a loss in horrifying fashion.
I hope the rest of the season is more like the team that put their nose to the ground and grinded out huge plays.
But I'm petrified that any given play will throw the team into a wild downward spiral they can't recover (see '18 ODU, ND, GT, PITT, MIA, '19 DUKE)
Unfortunately I have my reservations because Fuente and his staff honestly haven't earned my unwavering, jump on the everything is fine bandwagon support.
I genuinely hope they do, but until then, Go Hokies!
No, but it is impressive when basically the entire college football world shit on you as a program for a whole week and you come back with the W
No. Five forced turnovers and barely won. Proud of the effort until the second final whistle though!
They showed some fight! Which is way more than we saw last week! The second half performance concerns me, but we came out swinging and that's a great place to start. It did seem though that we were playing not to lose in the second half and we damn near did. We just have to go for it, and if we get beat, so be it, I'd rather go down swinging.
Yes.
Duke was a horrible loss, this was a great win. There is a lot of football left to be played this year.
Is the reaction not justified when we put a game like that together after a QB change? Everyone was calling for Hooker.
No. Perry threw for 422 yards and came close to winning the game for Miami.
Perry is an experienced guy who has a whole year under his belt and a ton of talented options. Hooker had thrown 2 passes ever
It's our job to overreact to ever win, and loss, and jokes in transcripts that without inflection don't sound like jokes, and everything in life!!!!!
Did VT blow a 4 TD lead? Yeah they did...but for me it was more about the character of the young men wearing the uniform we love. They didn't quit, they didn't surrender, and for that I'll ride or die with them. We may win out, we may lose some, but today our team responded to adversity and as long they do that I'm okay. Let's Fucking Go...
HOKIES!
Lolnope. Took folks too long to react to begin with.
But it will be interesting to see if/how the Kill-effect takes shape. I wonder how much impact he had on the offense we saw today.
Basically Miami gave us the game with those crazy turnovers. We were more lucky than good really. We still were outgained by over 200 yards. A win's a win I guess, but this game could be a huge outlier in the end.
https://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/401112476
Yes and no. We played not to lose in the second half. The Hokies were trying to win with the clock with a ton of plays where we only rushed 3.
If on second down in the first half, if we had run it instead of taken the sack then I bet we run out the clock because Miami doesn't call time out on 3rd and 3; that wipes out giving up a hail mary. The clock in the last 5+ minutes was very screwy. If the 5th INT stood, then we probably coast to a win as well. We were far from dominant but also played not to lose (and still almost lost).
Yeah, that 5th Int would have easily changed the game. The defense looks better than last year, but it just feels like our offense doesn't help them out at all. We scored our last way to fast and put the defense back out there. Miami won the time of possession. We had one possession at 6 minutes, one at 4 minutes and the others less than 2 minutes.
We can't clamor for the hurry up offense one day and then talk about how they scored too fast another. I think of an offense puts up 35 points... defense should hold on. Not hating on any of the players though.. played one helluva game and I'm proud of all of them.
We've reached the point where we're blaming defensive woes on the offense for scoring? I mean... what? Bud went full 2007 BC prevent on the last drive and it played out eerily similarly. I have no clue what he was thinking because when Perry had all day, their WRs were getting open regardless of how many we were dropping in coverage. We had consistently gotten pressure and sacks even with a 4 man rush.
The defense was on the field for 19:10 of the second half, almost 60% of the time. While the scheme seemed to not help after the first play, we sent a defense back out there constantly in the 2nd half. Not just the final drive.
We are averaging 29 minutes 23 seconds of TOP on the season ranking us in the 70s. In 2017 when we have a top notch defense we held the ball more than 32 minutes for the 12th best TOP. We even had a positive TOP last season. We have only won the TOP in the BC game and by a fair margin, you take that out and we are around 100th in TOP.
So yes, our defense would be doing much better if they didn't constantly have to go back out on the field after five 3 and outs, a 4 play TD drive, and a 5 play TD drive.
TOP looked at in a void isn't a very useful stat. I'd be interested in yards per play and total plays stats to get a better picture of why TOP was skewed in certain ways. My hypothesis is we were better in TOP last season because the defense gave up TDs so quickly and this season the defense is forcing opposing offenses to drive the field more often. That's a form of improvement but yet the defense also contributes to TOP as it's their responsibility to prevent methodical drives and get off the field.
Our second half possessions were 5 3and outs, 1 4 play drive and a 5 play drive. our offense left the field quickly. I dont have a stat but this year feels like a lot of 3 and outs on offense. We also have a lot of turn overs which put the defense back on the field quicker than expected.
My opinion is that people make excuses for the defense which they would never consider making for the offense. We run down the play clock instead of running hurry up all the time? Wrong move. We run the ball to take time off the clock and control possession? Wrong move. If the offense ran full hurry up, threw 3 passes, and had to punt the ball after taking 24 seconds off the clock, people would be apoplectic. The offense takes the brunt of the blame for any issues no matter what.
The defense made huge plays yesterday and was a big part of winning the game. That doesn't mean they didn't have some terrible moments as well. The offense went 3 and out too many times but they also took advantage of short fields to score TDs, not field goals, which was huge, and came up big at the end of the game as well when the defense had faltered. It took a team effort to win the game.
2017 defense has no excuses, but the offense had a freshman QB, 1 WR that was injured, and not much of a run game. So the offense got the excuses. The defense had to ball out because the could.
But for a defense with 1 senior and a bunch of freshman DTs playing, you can't rely on them the same. The offense was supposed to be the strength, but it hasn't been. We need our offense to do better than 3 and out so the defense has time to rest.
The better unit needs to take care of the worse one.
Youth is more excusable for the defense when our starting defense averages 3.36 years of college level experience compared to the starting offense averaging 2.45?
Willis was the only senior starting on offense and one could make a nearly identical argument the other way by saying we are playing tons of freshman OL and you can't rely on them.
Other than Bud going turtle and Hewitt's brain fart, there was a lot to like. Defense was much more aggressive except at the end of both halves; and they pursued well. Tisdale is a massive upgrade. Corners were very solid. Griffin is going to be pretty good. The guys broke more tackles today than we have in a long time. Hooker's decision making and athleticism was a welcome relief from the last 20+ games. Overlooked by many, King's kickoff return on the last drive was very important.
Tisdale was everywhere! Conner showed up everywhere. Farley looked good except for the 2pt where if he knew who was behind him he would have made the play and the one TD where he got turned around, but he had a lot of great knockdowns, Ints, and a couple really nice tackles.
You are gonna run out of signature room
Five 3 and out drives in the second half when the coaches decided to go conservative. Two drives for TD's when the coaches opened up the offense. Do you suppose CornFu noticed?
I don't think that's an accurate reflection of the game itself. We attempted passes on several of the 3 and outs and had open receivers with a chance to convert for a first down; however, we missed some throws and had some drops. That's NOT going conservative- those are the execution errors Fuente has mentioned (and yes, I know many can't stand to hear that and pin it all on the coaches regardless).
I will have to check; but I think the passes were mostly, if not all, on later downs with long ytg after trying to run up the middle on early downs. I checked. There was only one pass on first down, a swing pass for 1 yd. the other series were all run, run, pass.
Just because we ran twice doesn't diminish the importance of converting when the 3rd down play provides the opportunity for success. This is hard to describe, but I'm thinking of it as a next gen stat type of thing where a QB with a given amount of pressure throwing to a WR with a given amount of separation has a certain likelihood of being completed. If the QB has a clean pocket and the WR creates separation on a 10 yard route, that play should be made >90% of the time.
Running twice up the middle to a stacked box for 3 straight drives doesn't diminish the importance of converting the 3rd down. It just makes that 3rd down exponentially more hard to convert, especially with a young QB whose strength is not passing.
I'd be fine with running on 1st and 2nd down if we mixed it up and ran off tackle, ran a counter, speed option, hell even a jet sweep, or a fake off of a jet sweep. We did simple inside zone handoff into an 8 man box which essentially conceded 3rd and 8+ which old generation stats have proven to be low probability situations.
This gave Miami life. Going into halftime with the shot in the arm via a Hail Mary, you know their coaches stressed taking care of the ball and getting some stops in the 3rd quarter. We couldn't have made that easier for them and halfway through the 3rd quarter Miami thought they were going to comeback and win. They were jumping up and down on the sidelines and the crowd got back into it. Meanwhile our players and coaches looked tighter and tighter as doubt began to take over and the defense wore down.
2nd half series passes were either incomplete or have yardage/td marked.
Run, run, run
Run, run, pass
Run, run, pass
pass, run, pass(67), pass (TD)
run, run, sack
pass (1yd), pass, pass
pass(29), run, run, pass(26), run
How does that compare to the first half? If feel like we didn't pass except for TE screens
run, run, run, run, pass(7), pass, run, run(TD)
pass, pass(5), pass
run, pass (20/TD)
pass, run, run, run(TD)
pass, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, pass (7), pass (17/TD)
run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, sack, run
If we go 7-0 the rest of the regular season with a solid identity on offense and defense, then definitely.
At this time, I feel our reaction was warranted.
I mean hey, obv we can still go 10-2 right now.
at the very least, i can dream...
It's a pretty good one.
No, that loss to Dook was unacceptable.
We won, on the road, vs Miami's. So absolutely. It wasn't the perfect game, but a win is a win. To the people that didn't watch... I hope you come back to support our team
that ESPN crew overreacted to that damn Hail Mary!
Nope.
This game still showed how far this team has to go. It does raise several questions. Like why did it take so long to pull Willis? Why our D still got shredded even with all the turnovers? Why did we go ultra conservative and piss away an entire quarter? How did we almost blow a 28 point lead? Is Miami worse than us or did they just have a bad day?
I think this team is still a far cry from where it needs to be, but it was nice to see it have some life instead of getting beat like a red-headed step child.
You say "Why did it take so long to pull Willis", but after watching Hooker for a full game, I'm just so confused as to who the better QB actually is. Like, Hooker's stats were not anything to write home about - 10/20 passing for under 200 yds, 76 yds rushing (though he showed a decent spark of playmaking ability that Willis has only hinted at a few times). At the same time, he accounted for 3 TDs and made some plays happen by himself. To be fair, a ton of Hooker's TD plays came from turnovers in the first half that gifted him the ball on Miami's 30 or better, so not a ton of yardage to cover.
Still, from my perspective (watching on TV at a bar with friends) Hooker had a tendency (well, more like a continuous habit) to overthrow almost every pass he put out there (most likely correctable if he learns the hard way in games, but that's probably half of the reason he was QB2 instead of QB1) - Willis, when he makes the correct read, is a MUCH better passer. At the same time, the team seemed to rally around and respond to Hooker in a way that they don't seem to with Willis, and that spark got them to give juuuuust enough of an extra effort to win the game. I mean, even on Hooker's first TD, all of the players swarmed him and were smacking him on the back/helmet/front/etc to hype him up for making the play. I've seen celebrations with Willis, but they just seem a bit forced.
So is it an issue of leadership? Would the offense play better with Hooker at the helm despite the fact that Willis is by far (based on today) the superior passer? If Hooker is a better QB in the sense of hyping the team despite overthrowing half of his targets and running a bit too soon sometimes, does the defense get more hyped just because the offense is vibing, regardless of the production on the field? I really have no idea what the right answer is, and I can only imagine how tough it is for the coaching staff now that we've all seen what QB2 looks like.
Willis hasn't shown an improved FB IQ. He may have the better arm, but Hooker has a strong arm, made several nice throws, played within the game plan, did not make any critical errors, has better feet, and showed in my opinion that he has the better football IQ as a r-soph than Willis as a r-sr. The defense certainly made it easy for him the first half, but he converted TD's when he needed to. Both with the short field in 1st Qtr and then he went and won the game with a TD drive after Miami had all the momentum. Oh, and it was his first start, on the road, against a program rival.
Hooker didn't throw any pics. He'll get better. Another "warm-up" game with URI this weekend. Let's work out some kinks with Hooker.
No chance. Are you advocating for Whit to sign Fuente to another 15 million extension after this? There is no chance a 28-0 lead shouldve ever gone down to the wire like it did. We've got plenty of problems, but thankfully we were finally the beneficiaries of another team turning the ball over and us getting some luck thrown our way. Offense did look better for sure, but if we play a team with a good defense, they are gonna shut the running game down and force Hendon to throw. Have a feeling there is going to be alot of overreaction to this win, however there are still plenty of holes in this team.
On a positive note. We must have the best red zone TD conversion ratio in the country. If feels like every time we've been there we've scored. Problem has been getting there...
No- this team is still soft and benefitted greatly from generally pretty shitty QB play by Miami. If they turn the ball over even just 3 times instead of 5, we lose that game. Being able to capitalize on Miami's mistakes was encouraging but Miami isn't some juggernaut of a football team
They are however a P5 program that was favored by 14, is known for the energy they create at home (and away) when creating turnovers...not a juggernaut for sure, but have the talent to beat many teams.
Calling our guys soft is not warranted, but hey, go ahead with your bad self.
Tell you what. This team made some big sticks tonight. They aren't there but to label our effort/team from tonight as soft is lame and incorrect.
I'm glad they dismissed that targeting hit... I hate how just because a QB takes a big hit, it's an auto personal foul.
Lol. No way.
no, 5 turnovers was nice
Having 0 turnovers was very nice change
Liked seeing TEs involved in the game, but the passing attack wasn't really that great overall.
D gave up a ton of yards and points
Gonna be a long season with every game being a toss up besides ND
There was and is good reason for concern. But one would have had to try hard not to see improvement in several areas today.
No... French will show you why this week. We should all be celebrating this win, but there are still some very troubling trends with this team on both sides of the ball.
Edit: Props to the coaches for getting the team to play for 4 quarters.
Honestly I couldn't believe the blocking, toughness and speed they showed. Sure there were still some execution errors. Was like a difference team.
Giving up big plays is still a HUGE issue for the defense but overall I sensed there were fewer gap fit issues. We lost Crawford for much of the game which was a big blow but we did see some life out of the DEs, even if Miami's OL is horrendous. Still plenty of room for improvement with missed tackles and blown coverages (and biting on fake screens).
The offense struggled mightily with the intermediate and deep passing game. Positives were that the O produced big plays more often than we've seen in a long time, the OL looked more aggressive and WR looked to be blocking harder. Take it as you will, but the team seemed to just play harder for Hooker out there.
And honestly, for most of the season "proper gap fits" haven't been a huge issue.
The defense is what it is at this point. But I'm still struggling with long portions of the game offensively. We were stubborn with the inside zone and anything between the tackles.
PSA: If you're downvoting everybody with the same response on here, you're actually proving their point.
edit: impartiality
No. We got fucking lucky with those TOs and were pretty bad on offense otheriwse. But FUCK IT. Im gonna enjoy the shit out of this win.
I'm not sure what is meant by overreacting. If you mean - thinking that the season will likely be a disaster based on performance to date, then hell no no one is overreacting. This team has major problems....BUT. Tonight they didn't give up. Players flashed brilliance. And while Miami may not be great, they have serious athletes. We went to work tonight and it paid off. But all our problems are clearly not solved.
Brah...turn your hat around. You ain't street, Cuz!
Frank was a country boy. That's different.
(Btw-my previous comment was a joke).
Really good to see the emotion from Fuente. Team seemed to be behind him tonight
Fuente showed a lot of emotion tonight. I was feeling for the guy. Glad they held on.
Yeah they totally did. Unfortunately expect some more overreactions because we've got two incredibly tough games coming up after Rhode Island, going 1-1 would be impressive. Four weeks from now if we lose to Notre Dame people will be right back calling for Fuentes head. I'll reserve judgement until the uva game. 7-5 beating UVA will be alright for me, that means taking one of: Pitt Wake and UNC all very tough teams.
We looked like the inferior team against Furman. No.
First half was great, but hated how both offense and defense played the entire second half like they wanted to kill the clock and ended up letting Miami back into the game.
Reminded me of how Seth Greenberg would try to milk the clock with a 10 point lead for an entire half of basketball.
Celebrate this win
Enjoy it, live it up. We beat Miami and that's always a good thing
But
5 turnovers and we still had 35 rung up on us. That's not a defensive outing that will win many games going forward.
A win against the Hurricanes on their field after being (rightfully so) called every bad thing you can think of then yes its a good win. If Tech has issues what can you say about Miami. How about losers! And my wife is pissed because I watched the game and didn't take her out to dinner.
Overreaction - yes, but understandable. Here is what I see has changed.
1) QB1 - captain obvious here. This team clearly needs a QB that has some elusiveness. H2 has got this and combined with a young Oline, no big RB and the scheme that Fuente wants to run having this option elevated expectations.
1b) There is something to how the team reacted to H2. Maybe he just has better relationships, maybe the team believes in his ability to score and keeps their energy or maybe something else. I will be interested to see how they react to when he struggles.
3) Garbutt in the game makes a difference. He draws penalties and almost always gets pressure when 1 on 1 in passing situations. If he stays healthy this helps, but if he gets hurt again this will hurt.
4). Tisdale is a playmaker. He did make some mistakes today (missed tackle on big RB Td), but his length and speed seem like a more natural fit at backer (love Dax, just think he is more suited to Mike)
5) more aggressive style on D. This team is young and trying to play position football doesn't seem like a fit. Committing and playing fast (even if a mistake is made) was a sorely needed change. High risk - high reward attacking style D seems to fit this personnel better - especially with the CB cover ability improved.
The team has no gimmes, so I will be watching to see if this builds confidence and they don't lose their edge they played with today. If the team builds confidence and the above changes stick, the expectations rise a bit.
I'm not saying we are world beaters, but I am saying a new QB1 especially allows this team a chance to win.
Wasnt garbut the one who got injured early against bc? Gla to see him back
Correct.
No. This team is a work in progress. There is no realistic way a single game is going to represent a complete turnaround. But let's enjoy the fact that there's still some hope left. Will we struggle the rest of the season? You bet we will. This team still has a lot to learn. We've got to learn how not to play down to the level of our opponents. We've got to learn how to dominate for 60 minutes and never let up on the gas. But we found out we still actually have a gas pedal, we can hold onto the ball, we can capitalize on turnover, and D.B.U. has some ball hawks again. This team is a work in progress. But last week made it seem like progress was out of the question. Maybe not? I plan on enjoying this one. It's going to be an interesting ride.
Here's my 800 pound gorilla. And maybe it's second guessing but I was asking myself the same question in week 2.
But....What on earth has Fuente been thinking not giving Hooker tons of play time (working on in game pass accuracy at game speed etc). When he had ODU and Furman to work with? What does that say about the coaching?
The coaches chose experience. Trust. Based on a young team prone to mistakes. So I'm not upset at the initial decision.
We have the weakest schedule in the P5 this season, maybe we make a bowl first and then we can judge if everyone in America was overreacting to what seems to be a 4th straight year of regression.
Plus nothing is going to fix the small AND extremely concerning recruiting class, regardless of our record. Thats still out there too.
Are we as bad as people think? No
Are we as good as we should be? No
But the gorilla doesn't come off until sustained success occurs.
No. There are still issues on both sides of the ball, a missing toughness factor, a trend of getting blown out, rumblings of a culture problem that are too loud to ignore, and an awful recruiting class. Hooker gives me hope we can beat UVA whereas with Willis I didn't think we would win another game. But we blew a 28-0 lead and only clinched the win at the literal last second. Wins gloss over problems, but they are still there and Fuente is not our guy. I defended him all last year, however at this point I think he should be terminated sooner rather than later to stop the bleeding and get a headstart on the rebuild/recruiting cycle.
Absolutely.
Does the team have issues? Yes
Should there be concerns? Yes
Did that justify the hair on fire panic that was/is going on? No.
It has been hysterical here the past few weeks. Enough that I stopped coming for a while because the hot takes were going to damage my phone.
This win doesn't mean all is well either. There is still a lot of work to put in. But I saw improvements yesterday. They looked energized, especially on D, something that I felt has been lacking so far this season. It didn't look like we were sleepwalking through the game (except maybe the third quarter).
Note: I also didn't watch the Duke game since I was otherwise occupied. That may have tempered my reaction a bit since I didn't see any of how bad that game went.
I mean we won the turnover battle 5-0 and barely won. If I was overreacting last week, I'm overreacting this week too. We didn't even win the time of possession.
1-6 in last 7 ACC games, getting blown out in many of those and not looking competitive. Would Fuente have made the QB change if the fan base had been content and did not 'overreact'?
Fan sentiment will always be exaggerated one way or the other. But that is what makes a good and passionate fan base.
Fans didn't know what change was needed. So you had fans calling for QB change, for OC change, for HC change. Fuente made the QB change and we looked better and got a W. This team cannot afford turnovers and Corn will have to be creative and efficient for us to win games. Fuente cooled off the hot seat substantially with this win. But he and Corn need to prove that they can develop this team and demonstrate improvement over the next 7 games.
2-6 in ACC games now. Many of those non-competitive blowouts. A 28 point lead blown, but credit to Corn, he made some good calls on a critical drive late and Hooker and the team executed on said drive. We will need a lot more of that.
It took last season and an 0-2 ACC start with basically the worst lost ever in Lane for things to reach a fever pitch. The fan base had a perfectly appropriate reaction for a proud program.
Calling Fuente an arrogant dick because he allegedly didn't get out of his car when he picked up one of his kids was perfectly appropriate?
Seriously...I don't think that was the collective response from the fan base. Was the OP referencing that specific reaction or the collective reaction from the fan base. Come on man.
I simply don't see how you could characterize it as a perfectly appropriate reaction considering nearly every thread included a personal insult directed toward Fuente. That was an egregious example but it was not the only one.
First, TKP does not represent the collective fan base opinion. Second, an insult per thread is still not representative of the overall reaction. Third, Nothing that i said condoned personal attacks on Fuente. And yes, a fan base is supposed to over react. We're fanatics. It's kind of the point. Lastly, the majority of reactions I saw were fans expressing that they won't live with ACC blowouts, and that if it kept up without change a lot of fans would lose interest. Most reactions I saw to the Duke game questioned Fuente's ability to run this program. And it was legitimate to question that.
Again, the examples of personal insults do not amount to the average fan reaction. And I don't see how you can say the average fan reaction was to personally insult Fuente.
Yes every negative reaction from tkp was an overreaction. We're not as bad as the Duke game and we're not as awesome as the past game. We're in the middle - it's the whole point of a young team and a growing year.
I don't think so. I mean some people are cruel and make personal attacks, but generally putting the coaches on the hot seat was warranted. The team showed a bit of fight in the BC game, but was generally listless otherwise this season before yesterday. That fight, that fire, is everything. When you don't see it there is no hope. That's a coaches responsibility. Kudos to them for getting that back and responding to some adversity. I'll be impressed when I see that week in and week out regardless of outcome.
No, other than Clemson the ACC is a bunch of average teams at best and we are among them. We likely beat URI and GT, lose to ND and split the other 4 games (UNC, Wake, UVA and Pitt) to make a bowl. Is the sky falling? No, but we still arent that good. At the very least we are more exciting with Hooker at QB.
We could have played better, particularly in thew 2nd half, but we also could have folded once Miami gained some momentum and were getting all the questionable calls in the 2nd half to get them back in the game. Watching us with a big lead in the 1st half, I knew it was going to get close to make this a competitive game in the 2nd half. But I think the most important thing about this win, besides the team playing inspired ball around HH and HH playing a solid, smart game, was the response we showed in that last drive to give us the lead. We showed alot of heart that we've been missing for a while in that last drive, and then the defense stepping up when Miami had the ball at our 10. Now that was a good sequence of events that we should be able to build off of.
HH showed some definite potential in the game yesterday, and if he can build off that and get even better with his reads as he gets more experience, it will be a major plus for our team down the stretch as we look to retain the Commonwealth Cup and keep the bowl streak alive.
Taking nothing away from Rhode Island, cause we shouldn't take any opponent lightly, but I think this game should be a good primer for getting HH ready for the remainder of our conference games, along with straightening out a few things with our o-line and defense.
Also, shout out to Charmarri Conner, who played a hell of a game yesterday in my eyes. Looks like he might have come into his own yesterday, with Alan Tisdale not far behind.
and Caleb Farley... it felt like he hadn't been mentioned in any positive way since the F$U game last year.
We scored 10pts at home against Duke...Pitt, who is no offensive juganot, scored 33pts...so my answer is NO.....we played a damn near perfect 1st half and then relaxed a little....but none of yesterday happens with Willis at the helm....
Overreacting? Possibly. But this week we saw some emotion and the ability to withstand and respond to an opponent's incredible comeback which is really all I could ask for right now. Another collapse likely would have cemented this season and a couple careers. If anything I have a lot of questions on the play calling on both sides of the ball. Specifically, why we went in to turtle mode in the third quarter, and why the D seemed to go with a 3-man front for the remainder of the game.
Regardless, I hope yesterday was a confidence builder for the players and coaches.
What I want to see (need to see) is a clean game next week where we dont play with our food and take care of business. I want to see the 2nd team taking the majority of snaps mid-way through the 3rd, and QP needs to be behind center starting on our 2nd or 3rd drive of the third quarter. If that happens then I will be a little more comfortable with where we are heading.
No.
Miami gave us the game with their turnovers and stupidity, and they still almost won.
I'm excited that the team showed heart and effort. They showed resilience in the game, coming back from some bad calls.
+ The players played with effort and passion. They didn't fold in this game when Miami came back.
+ Fuente / Cornelsen made the switch to Hooker, crafted a good game plan around him.
+ Foster got the D ready to play, played well in the first half, played with effort, played tough.
+ The secondary played well mostly (Conner, Farely, Waller). Floyd was Floyd.
+/- Run blocking was better in the first half, O line was beaten like a drum in the 3rd quarter
+/- Hooker played great, needs to get the ball out quicker with our offensive line's poor pass blocking
- Inability to play complementary football in the 2nd half, the offense played too conservative.
- Hewitt roughing the passer penalty, negating an interception
- Giving up a Hail Mary TD at the end of the 2nd half. Rush four, please.
- Bad tackling on Miami's tying TD, plays run to the boundary where Miami's skill players had an athletic advantage
- Drop by Phil Patterson, when we needed to get 2 first downs to kill the clock at the end of the game
Miami is a more talented team. They weren't the better team yesterday. They gave us the game.
I suspect their coaching staff is worse than ours.
Let's see how the players deal with success and if Fuente/Cornelsen can build on the win.
One thing I disagree with is Hewitt did not rough the passer. I think one of the announcers questioned that call as well. I think ur spot on with the rest of ur post.
Pretty much agree with everyone's sentiment.
Was glad to see the fight in the team. I wasn't comfortable unless we had a 35-0 lead going into half time. When you've been a Hokie fan long enough I think you can just tell. Miami hit that luck hail mary and I knew it was gonna be a battle in the 2d half. Maybe not as close as it got but I figured they would close it up and we would have to keep pace to win.
As to turtle modes I agree with most as well. Although that's not on the players thats on the coaches. Not sure why we ran up the gut multiple times against a stacked box like there was 1:30 left in the. I mean we would have benefited if we had at least been able to chew some clock on some drives. It seemed like they scored and we would go three and out take about 30 sec of clock and then give it back. Then on defense, after getting constant pressure on Perry we decide to let him sit back with a 3 man rush. At least send 4 lineman or send a LB to rush him. Didn't understand it. If you're getting pressure why all of the sudden lay off the gas?
Anyhow, glad to get the win. Look forwrad to HH cleaning up some accuracy against RI and seeing team get a dominant win like we should have seen against furman and ODU.
Also don't forget Miami had a bye week before us. So there's that as well. Wasn't happy with the comeback but was happy with the effort the showed.
Like many of you, I have been doing a lot of soul searching this season. I could embellish, but the essence of what Hokie football means to me is a team that believes in itself and leaves nothing on the field. Win or lose, I can count on them to be inspiration for my life: Put your head down, work hard, and find a way to make it work.
There is no need to chronicle the downward spiral of my inner football child, but I had given up on this team being something I could count on. I was moving on, dreaming of all the productive things I could do be doing instead of watching this hot mess... like figuring out the right balance between the costs of buyouts and empty seats.
Yesterday this team found it. They played like Hokies. I saw people giving second efforts and not giving up.
Downvote me if you want, but if they had lost in the end I would still have had a big ass grin on my face this morning.
Did I overreact during the first four games? Nope. Can I be proud of my Hokie team if they play like they did yesterday? Hell yes.
Here here!! I almost renamed my dog Beamer...was going to start calling him Ghost - the ghost of what was once a great team. He's still Beamer, I'm still a proud Hokie. It wasn't a pretty 2nd half, but the team had enough fight to preserve the win.
Let's hope we keep fighting all season. It's cool if we take a few more losses...just need to see the fight all game.
I think the frustration with Cornelson's struggles and Hooker not getting a chance were valid. I think a lot of people jumping ship and saying we're a 3-9 or 4-8 team was the overreaction, mainly because it was completely ignoring how up and down the rest of the coastal is.
No, but HH leading a drive to take the lead gives me hope! Our D still sux (look at yards given up), questionable coaching to allow Miami back in game (3 and outs) or going into prevent mode way to early. I've heard prevent mode called prevent yourself from wining and it almost happened Saturday. One last thing the officials did their best to help Miami at the end of the game. Most of the game the refs are not terrible but the fourth quarter is questionable at best.
I don't follow the live game thread, and also don't go back through it... but can someone explain the play where HH ran the ball and slid down inbounds and the clock stopped at 1:45 (or maybe it was 0:45)?
There was no first down. There was no timeout. He landed inbounds and the ref seemed to signal as such.
That play was a head scratcher for me......just one of many questionable 4th quarter calls.
Wow it's like the turnovers were fumbles dropped on the ground and our guys just fell on them... sheesh. Look at all of them, they were legit breaks in the ball reading the quarterback knowing where to be to make those turnovers happen.. there were no gifts there at all and the defense was good until they got gassed, started cramping then we had put in second stringers.
The defense is a unit as a whole 1st or second string.... at the very least 2 of those ints were gifts on awful QB decisions. They still managed to get gashed for a couple big runs and gave up 469 passing yards. We'd lose by 3+ td without those turnovers and we barely won with them
There has been a lot of talk on us playing not to lose rather than win in the second half. I was actually okay with that gameplan. We were rolling with a quarterback who had thrown two career passes heading into that game. With the way our defense had been playing, I think it was wise to minimize risk and start running the clock. When we needed to score again, we did. I just hope as Hooker gains more experience, our playcalling reflects a team trying to blow someone out of the stadium.
One thing I have not seen brought up in the dozens of post-game posts is the probability that scUM took us too lightly and were thinking it'd be a cakewalk. Their rookie head coach either reinforced this attitude or didn't have the experience to counter it. Maybe they saw the Duke game, the Herbstreit "it's so bad" video and had already counted this as a W. Obviously our guys came to play and blasted them early & I am thankful for the improvement and W. I'm only pointing out that early-game sleepwalking by the U was a possible contributor to it. We still need to address a lot of the same issues of consistency, but hopefully we can do some more tuning vs. URI. I still see this as a 5 to 6 win team but now I feel much better about our chances in any game, especially LOLUVa.
Please refer to my "Hatin' On" post where I mentioned Manny Diaz was looking forward to having 20 days to prepare for UVA....
Leg for prescience.
No. We won a game in which we won the turnover battle by 5 and had a 28-0 lead. We had to produce a late 4th quarter touchdown drive, followed by stopping a Miami drive to end the game.
It is certainly a step in the right direction. The team fought. They didn't fold, particularly when they faced adversity. That's more than we can say about last week. But giving up that lead is still very concerning.
Win convincingly against Rhode Island this week and play a good game against UNC the week after and then we can talk about whether we overreacted. Add this win to the pro-Fuente column if you want, but I still think you'll find the con-Fuente column has a few more tick marks in it at the moment.
I'm happy for our players. Happy for our fan base. I'm even happy for the coaching staff. They must've gone through hell this week and I know it must've felt good to get that win. But that staff has dug a pretty deep hole for themselves over the last 2 years. They took the first step towards climbing out of it but they still have a few more feet to go before I'm throwing them a rope.
1st and goal with 1:08 left and UM only has 1 TO left. No clue why we didn't run the clock down to :02 and kick FG for win. No way it should have come down to those last 2 plays for them. Also up late in Q4 and snapping the ball way too early in play clock. "Prevent" defense needs to never be used. Feel like this has been an issue forever. Way too conservative offense late in game as others mentioned. These are the coaching issues that stood out to me.
Kids played a hell of a game though and the future looks bright for Hooker. Go Hokies!
I loved the win, and it was truly an exciting game. I love competition,and playing good teams. I feel that teams only get better by playing tough , competetive teams.
I , however do not think all of our problems are cured from one game, one quarterback change, or one week of attitude overhaul. Teams will make adjustments against our scheme, and we will have to fight even more to continue our success.
Fuente has changed the ship's course for one week. His job is not done, and I hope he can continue to build on this past weeks' success. I hope we can keep getting better, but the team will have to grow more because the tape will tell the next team how to defend and attack our squad. Hooker and team played a great game, and it was an exciting win.
At least Tech continued that high level of play into their next game, amirite?
SURVEY SAYYSSSSS:
NO
NO
So, how do we feel now? Is it still time to make changes?
Well to be fair we won the TOP. I'm cautiously optimistic.
Well considering those changes include willis not at QB I think there were wareanted changes