August 2020 football recruiting thread

Discuss and share any recruiting topics from August 2020 that don't warrant their own thread

This recruiting thread is used to share information regarding VT-specific targets, PWOs, scholarship offers, visits, camps, and general news, in addition it larger trends. In the interests of limiting load times, check the thread to see if a tweet or 247 profile was already embedded prior to adding it yourself.

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link to the 2021 Unofficial Big Board (google sheet)

August 2020 247 Embeds:

(not exhaustive, and no particular order):

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

My 2 cents is that Tristan Leigh eliminated us at his last cut and should no longer be one of the embeds.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Yes, I had intended to update that. Good catch

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Also, probably worth adding Devin Lee (link)

Devin Lee and Tyleik Williams are my ideal 3t/1t pickups.

Time to discourse all over this recruiting thread. Lets see...

Do stars matter for the teams performance?
Does it matter that UNC keeps taking good recruiticorns if historically they've done nothing with it?
Is two dozen scholarship running backs a good number?

There's always a lighthouse. There's always a man. There's always a city.

Well, UNC got a decommit from Jared Wilson as he's recommitting to Georgia. That's gotta sting for some of you Mack Brown fan boys.

I can't imagine that it stings for them too too much.

They are moving out of the top 10 soon I bet.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Wait, seriously?

Last I checked they were sitting at a comfortable #2. On 24/7 anyway.

Granted that was a couple weeks ago..

9th as of tonight. With Miami, UF, UGA, Texas, Oklahoma and ND all within easy striking distance.

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Important to note that they are already at ~250 points with only 17 commits. Several of the schools ahead and behind them have more recruits in their classes.

The cutoff for top 10 in the 2020 team rankings was just north of 261 points. It's probably safe to say with a few more commits UNC will eclipse that threshold.

Does that factor in the Tony Grimes reclassification though?

Yes it does. That's a major reason why UNC dropped in the 2021 rankings. He was reclassified into their 2020 class which moved last years class to 13th overall.

It's disingenuous imo to highlight their recent drop without pointing out that they didn't really lose their top recruit, he will just be joining the team earlier.

Just shows they recruited really well LAST year but are now clearly slipping.... on a downward trajectory for sure.

It's August 1st, also known as Official Offer Day in the world of recruiting. Today is when schools are "officially" allowed to extend scholarship offers. This practice is one of the reasons why I always point out comparing which offered 400 kids and which school offered 200 kids is a pointless exercise and doesn't mean anything.

You'll probably see recruits posting various schools "official" offer graphics now.

And also why "P5 offers" isn't a particularly good metric anymore (even though some people still use it religiously).

Also why it may be seen as particularly more damning if we take a player who doesn't have any

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Who might that be?

I actually don't follow (or find interesting) the minutia of recruiting like many. But it seems like pretty much every player VT signs these days has other P5 "offers" by the time signing day rolls around.

Christian Darrisaw was one.

More of a remark that some people don't think stars matter, some people think offers don't matter, some people (functionally) think the eval doesn't matter, and you're never going to satisfy everyone so it makes sense to link the recruiting profiles and film if they have any.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

What's your point??

Christian Darrisaw isn't exactly evidence of it being particularly damning if you take guys with no P5 offers. About all he's evidence of is diamonds in the rough do slip though occasionally.

More of a remark that some people don't think stars matter, some people think offers don't matter, some people (functionally) think the eval doesn't matter, and you're never going to satisfy everyone so it makes sense to link the recruiting profiles and film if they have any.

This was my point

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

I still don't see the connection between your first post and your second post.

*Unofficial list of Official offers:

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Don't want to add too many more imbedded tweets so I'll just list any future ones here:
Landyn Watson tweeted out his official offer.
Isi Etute tweeted out his official offer.
Dawain Lofton tweeted out his official offer.
Malachi Thomas tweeted out his official offer. (When will he get a recruit ranking?)
Tahj Bullock tweeted out his official offer.

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DJ Harvey:

I'll put my life on this stamp.

Finally found the tier higher than 800% committed. I fucking love this kid.

Reports an offer have not seen his name anywhere before.

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Would love to get one of him or Estime.

Reports an offer. His offer list is impressive for a 3 star.

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A RB that puts blocking highlights in his HUDL tape. I like that.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

We've come a long way in our recruiting letters.

Is that Comic Sans? In the year 2013? Pete must have done this

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

hank you To all the coaches @VTech please believe me you won't regret it!

Felipe Videla is probably confused.

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

I was going to ask about why all these offers now! Didn't realize an offer couldn't be official until August 1st. Does that mean the player has to be going into their senior year to get an official offer?

Stick it in...Stick it in...Stick it in

It's for their respective class, so yes. 2021 offers became "official" today.

Wonder if there will be an official offer to DD or if we've completely given up on him.

Stick it in...Stick it in...Stick it in

I don't have insider info and can't say with certainty but... that bridge was General Sherman level burned so I highly doubt it. Don't give him the chance to use it against us as an insult to Bullock either.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

DD. Who dat?

Donald Duck

I thought it was Daffy? Daisy?

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

Dick Dastardly, you may also know of his sidekick Muttley.

Maybe Deputy Doofy?

That's Special Officer Doofy... get it straight....

February..'96...the steak: ribeye, the whiskey:Lagavulin 16, the lady next to me: a bit**.....

It appears his twitter account isn't posting anything.

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Evan Watkins put in a CB for VT, so it's canon

Would be quite a boon for the offensive line

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

Can't wait until his first pancake block is shown on the screen so the crowd can go "booooooooonnnneeee"

Touchdown Tech!!

I canon wait either.

Was Skipper the selling point in his recruitment?

I would love to know if anyone has any inside information on Audric Estime. Seems like the kind of kid that could really make an impact and change the face of recruiting for Fuente (whose had trouble getting a productive RB in the house).

Is coronavirus over yet?

An early Hokies QB target for 2021, Walter Simmons III, committed to ECU today. He has connections to 904Hokie, and wish him all the best in college.

Oof.

Good for him. May he post season averages of 3000+ yds passing, 30+ tds, and 0 wins.

You seeing any chatter about IMG down here reaching out to players around the country that aren't having seasons to recruit them?

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I've seen a few guys do this in the last month of their own volition. I believe it was a Michigan QB commit who has already announced his intentions to play his SR year there due to the uncertainty around HS ball. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they have reached out to other top prospects.

It's starting to look like Miami will be another team to benefit from the pandemic dead periods. They just landed a 5* S/LB that was a Georgia lean for over a year, and are trending for local 5* DT Leonard Taylor and 5* CB Jason Marshall.

We've seen Miami squander plenty of talent over the years, but I certainly hope those guys end up sighting elsewhere.

Miami over UGA is bonkers to me. Spare me the Miami vs. Athens argument. Potentially earlier pt, maybe.

Amateur superstar and idiot extraordinaire.

I mean, Miami has a turnover chain. Hard to compete with that.

Shit...forgot about all the drip drop swaggy swag. Suck something awful UGA, South Beach it is!

Amateur superstar and idiot extraordinaire.

The COVID-19 dead period might have something to do with it. Miami has all the talent in the world in its backyard.

All the more reason that someone would want to branch out to a smaller community, no? Only 10% /s on that.

Amateur superstar and idiot extraordinaire.

This is the line of thinkIng Barton Simmons and Bud Elliot shared on their podcast recently.

A lot of people want instant gratification these days. Live in South Beach and enjoy the lifestyle they see every day through social media etc. in just a few months could be tempting to these type of people. Not saying that's the case for everyone, just my hypothesis for some.

How do we feel here?

Im feeling Decent

I've got this feeling
The tide is turning now baby
Funny feeling everything's gonna be alright now

I think NC State, Mississippi St. and Ole Miss are the current leaders.

Well that answer kinda sucks.

How we feeling about this? Seems so up and down.

I hate rude behavior in a man. Won't tolerate it.

I think not being able to visit other universities and stuff sealed it for StateπŸ˜’πŸ˜”

I've got this feeling
The tide is turning now baby
Funny feeling everything's gonna be alright now

Agree

Stay on him until ncsu fires Doeren?

There'll have to be a season for that to happen

There will be.

Idk man. We'll know in two weeks if it'll be feasible. There's really two scenarios.

1) Falling new case numbers coincide with new immunity in populated areas. Louisiana, Arizona, and Florida are getting close to some level of herd immunity with Bama Miss and Georgia not far behind. R0 is currently below 1 in almost every state. It's possible the new mass of immune people along with caution and masks from everyone else could drive down the cases, but this seems like wishful thinking to me.

2) Current trends continue and new spikes happen from sending everyone back to school. This is a far more likely scenario and could lead to disaster. It'd mean a lot of colleges sending students home (think of the risk posed to janitors, cafeteria workers, etc.). Once the students get sent home football gets cancelled. Or this would at least be true of NC State, the team in question. Chancellor Woodson said so in the Wednesday press release.

Any combination of 1 and 2 I would include in scenario 1. If the students stay on campus we probably have a season. If new case numbers fall for the next month we probably have a season. Just don't think either of those are likely.

You need something like 70% immunity in a population to achieve herd immunity. As high as numbers are in some places, no one is likely close to that, or will be by the fall.

Yea, piggybacking on this, we're at about 5% immunity right now world wide (per the WSJ last week), and at best at 10% in the US. It's not like 50% of the population has had it, and we're close. We're not close at all to herd immunity.

Twitter me

The uncertainty is how much of the population has natural immunity. But, even at that, the most optimistic view I have read estimated we need around 20% infection to get there, for which we are still a far way off.

Edit: sorry I thought this was in the corona thread...please take any reply there

"If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?"

As long as Beau Davidson doesn't fire off a tweet burning that bridge.

Marshall University graduate.
Virginia Tech fanatic.
Formerly known as JWillHokieAlum.

That happened before? Whom?

More hypothetical than anything. Davidson has a tendency to send out tweets after recruiting misses that don't call out the recruit explicitly but is likely about that recruit. It's something usually along the lines of "if you don't want to be here, we don't want you here." Whether it upsets the recruits or not I don't know. They might not even see it. I just think that if I was a recruit having second thoughts about where I've decided to attend, I'd get turned off by a tweet about me and not consider that school again.

Marshall University graduate.
Virginia Tech fanatic.
Formerly known as JWillHokieAlum.

I feel like if you would consider "We want the people who come here to want to be here," which is the strongest thing I've seen him tweet after a recruiting miss, to be bridge burning then you were never going to come here anyway. If you want an excuse then maybe it can be one, but you have to already be looking for that excuse.

From my POV, I just wouldn't enjoy being subtweeted about regardless. Maybe others view it differently, but there are a lot of guys who flip right at signing day. I don't think Beau is wrong, but maybe save it for when everything is in writing and not when the recruiting cycle is still going on.

Marshall University graduate.
Virginia Tech fanatic.
Formerly known as JWillHokieAlum.

Yeah, I see what you mean, but also it'll never all be in writing. Recruiting is a constant, year over year process. There is always going to be someone on the fence who could feel subtweeted by a tweet like that, but it's such an anodyne sentiment that it's hard for me to get worked up over. I'm sure someone has or will feel slighted, I just have trouble believing that it's a deciding factor for anybody.

It might not be the tell all, but I think it certainly plays a factor. If you're going to flip someone, I think you need to do everything right. Maybe the coaching staff takes the same approach to recruiting as they do the portal: once you've seriously considered us and choose someone else, we don't want you.

Marshall University graduate.
Virginia Tech fanatic.
Formerly known as JWillHokieAlum.

Edited. too political.

My apologies.

Retracted, thanks for changing it!

Edit: original comment was edited

Marshall University graduate.
Virginia Tech fanatic.
Formerly known as JWillHokieAlum.

"They have to live with that decision" sure sounds like sour grapes and crapping on a recruit's decision to go elsewhere

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Yeah, forgot about that one. I feel like it's a tough balancing act trying to be all hoorah with the guys who have committed/are already here and continuing to attract top guys, but that was a little more bridge burn-y.

State could go 0-11 this year and they won't fire Doeren. He's a lot more safe then you think

As a State guy (second to Tech) this is true but only really holds for this season. He just shook up 90% of his staff (including the brilliant additions of Wiles and Mitchell) so they have to get some time to prove themselves. If we don't break 8 wins in the next two years he's gone.

Yeah, i think he has two years. No way State is going to not pay assistants to coach and this year and then do it again for next year and hire an all new staff. They don't have that kind of cash in the athletic department.

VT was the last school he visited

But being stuck around he's nc state relatives is what's gonna win it out for them

I've got this feeling
The tide is turning now baby
Funny feeling everything's gonna be alright now

Yes, but I think not being able to have a true official visit experience probably doesn't help VT out.

I see on the Google sheet that we're still in it for Tywone Malone. Got a #condiment here in NJ that he's focusing on schools who will let him play baseball too

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Happy to see we are still recruiting NJ hard.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

Thanks, I should've done that. My buddy coaches baseball and was chatting with Tywone's coach at a recent exhibition

Not coincidentally, he said he was the most physically imposing baseball player he's ever seen, and was surprisingly agile for a dude his size felding at first base

(Edit: two words)

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Do you know if we are actively trying to recruit him?

I have no program connections πŸ€·β€β™‚οΈ

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

I compared all the ranked players for VT with the composite vs the 247 score. What is shown is rounded and multipled by 100 for a visual compare. Interestingly UVA is 100% dead on to 7 decimal places. VT has a bump up for the 247 rankings, and Bama has a bump down (though i through them in for another data point and it looks to be a bad point as 247 doesn't give top in rankings as much as the composite does).

UVA Composite 247 VT Composite 247 Bama Composite 247
OT 90 90 CB 89 90 OT 100 98
DE 89 88 WR 88 88 DT 99 95
QB 89 88 S 86 88 OT 99 99
OT 87 87 QB 86 85 WR 98 94
ATH 86 88 WR 86 88 DE 98 95
QB 86 88 DE 86 86 OG 98 94
ATH 86 84 WR 86 87 WR 97 93
WR 86 87 ATH 85 86 LB 95 95
ATH 86 87 DE 85 86 WR 94 93
OG 85 86 S 85 85 LB 93 91
CB 85 84 LB 85 87 S 93 90
RB 85 84 RB 85 85 C 92 90
S 85 85 ATH 84 84 LB 91 91
OT 85 84 LB 84 84 ATH 89 88
S 84 85 CB 84 83 CB 88 90
CB 84 85 OG 79 77 DT 87 88
ATH 84 83 RB - -
CB 83 81
ATH 83 84
85.68421053 85.68421053 85.18 85.56 94.43 92.75

Watch out for 7pm tonight πŸ‘€πŸ˜Ž

I've got this feeling
The tide is turning now baby
Funny feeling everything's gonna be alright now

Thank yaπŸ˜ƒ

I've got this feeling
The tide is turning now baby
Funny feeling everything's gonna be alright now

Man this would be 2 kids off the I75 corridor within a few miles of each other. I wonder if he has some connection with Curry at all?

Dang, even in my prime I'd be out 8-24 weeks with a sports hernia but at 6'3 300 lbs that's damn impressive. If Vice likes him who cares where his offers come from, of all coaches he knows how to fit players into his line. Give me, gimme, Bryce pls.

Tyrod did it Mikey, Tyrod did it!!

Woulda banged both my knees. Then my face.

Woulda lost my pants.

Lol, same.

Good God. That is impressive. The boy has some power. It takes a lot to jump out of water (bet less than half of the team could do that)...even more to make it to the pool deck.

Plus kid does not look 300 bones...Must be good weight as he looks solid.

We put the K in Kwality

VT is his only P5 offer, and only recruited by two other P5 schools (Wake and Vandy).

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016


from Imgflip Meme Generator

This is how I feel every time this conversation pops up... If he gets more offers than great - then we act like we're going to get big dogged.

The main point is that "under the radar" is nearly impossible today. Kids that don't have star rankings or P5 offers at this point in the game are usually for a valid reason. He's not a junior, he's a senior.

This has been the story, but I'm intrigued this year by both Malachi Thomas and Goodner. They both have obvious physical skills, in Thomas's case to go with bonkers production numbers, and weren't on the recruiting services' radar. Seems like we've got someone diving deep into tape or whatever, it'll be interesting to see if it pays off.

If they were juniors, it's much less of a red flag, so to speak. In modern recruiting, nobody is an unknown. If we can hold onto some depth and develop these guys, yes they could pay off 2-3 years down the road.

If there was football camps these kids would be ranked already

I've got this feeling
The tide is turning now baby
Funny feeling everything's gonna be alright now

I think you'll see some more under the radar guys than normal. Spring and summer camps are usually a big time for kids to shoot up the rankings. While it's not as common, you've seen guys like Payoute, who wasn't even ranked in June heading into his senior year and then shot up into the top 300 and eventually ended at 162. Eugene Asante was a .8111 the summer before his senior year and shot up to a .9031. It's not hard to compare Bryce Goodner to a guy like Jesse Hanson, who started at an .83 and ended at a .87. That ratings boosts just won't happen without camps and senior tape.

Gobble Till You Wobble

Very possible to still be under the radar in normal times, happens all the time. This year there will be tons of players under the radar

Not to play semantics, but I think there is a reasonable distinction to be made.

When I think "under the radar" guys, I'm thinking of guys that have 4*/5* skills now but just haven't gotten enough attention/exposure, ect. to be rated that high or offered by traditional "power" schools. I do think those kind of guys are much more hard for VT to find than in the past.

When I look at this 2021 class I see multiple guys with lots of potential..i.e. they have the faw skills/size that with 2-3 yrs development they could be great players. I guess that is under the radar, but maybe in a different sense. More of a "developmental" situation. I see some of the same scenario in 2020 class.

While developmental players are great and may far surpass their star ranking, it would be nice for VT to have more of the "sure-thing" type recruits who are plug and play from Day #1. The additional concern is we are clearly seeking these higher-rated Recruits out, we are just not connecting on many of them at all, particularly in the last 2 classes. I think that's where much of the frustration and consternation is coming from.

LSU and Clemson have both taken commits from Unranked players in the last month or two.

On the bright side, he holds "offers" from a majority of the Ivy League. A 6'3'' 300lbs OL prospect with smarts sounds alright to me.

Bet you didn't see that 1 coming 😎

Go for it

?

VT '17

I referred a little while back that we had at least several unexpected future commits, this is one of those. We have at least 2 more unexpected that I know of currently

Go for it

I look forward to the bump we'll get when Thomas and Goodner finally get ranked (working from home is getting a little bleak y'all). Even if they both come in at the mid 3* level, that'll jump us to the mid 30s or so it looks like? Anyone know how those 247 team composite scores are calculated? Poking at it for five minutes or so didn't provide an obvious answer.

It's gonna take guys like Hollifield and Williams to really move us up into the 30s and the top 6 or 7 of the conference.

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

Gonna be a tough pull.

Using the class calculator and adding the perfect storm (Williams, Poole, Dingle, Hollifield, Mugharbil, Estime, Boone) gives us a score of 210 for 2021. In 2020 that would have put us at #31.

Realistically we probably pull 3 of these guys and mix in a few more mid 3 stars and end up in the high 30's, right around 40.

A final ranking south of 40 is still a disappointment for this class.

I agree. More importantly, finishing outside the top 5 in the ACC is even more disappointing. Right now we're 11th.

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

Yes sir, especially coming on the heels of the 14th ranked ACC class. It's an issue.

I agree... More importantly, finishing behind LOLUVA again would be more disappointing still.

Is coronavirus over yet?

Finishing in the bottom four of the ACC, with a full class and alleged emphasis on 2021 for two years now (at the expense of last year's class) would just be a really, bad look. And they are gonna need Williams to avoid getting there.

Yeah, but you should have already come to grips with that or something similar.

For this recruiting class, we are down 35-3 at halftime. We aren't going to win the game but we can play well in the 2nd half and get ready for next week.

Fuente himself stacked the deck for this class, talking about the time and emphasis that went into it, and the expectation for it to be "special". Right on the heels of the 75th class for 2020. So he knows the pressure on. It sucks that COVID is happening. It maybe wasn't the best decision to rework your staff going into this, or flirting to leave the team just a few months ago. But I really don't buy any excuses for him at this point.

If he wants to limp to the recruiting finish line, then OK, but expectations will swing the other way onto on-the-field results. Go 8-2 with the reworked ACC schedule. If he ties the 42nd class into going 6-4, or worse, then I really don't see how you can feel that Fuente is the solution at Virginia Tech. You can't be average on the field, and sub-average in recruiting.

Fuente himself stacked the deck for this class, talking about the time and emphasis that went into it, and the expectation for it to be "special"

Using Fuente trying to build some hype around a class after a (very) down cycle as something to bludgeon him with is funny to me. If he'd just not said anything would you be less or more upset with this class?

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

I'm saying that it looks like he will come up short, again, and there's no way to say that the coach wasn't aware of the expectations for the 2021 class to be exponentially better than 2020, and ideally back in line with the average ranking of 25-30th class. Why isn't that the case now?

What frustrates me about this argument is that it seems to free Fuente, as the leader of the program, from any sort of buck-stops-here responsibility. 2020 class tanked? Awkward Baylor flirtations? Gem of the 2021 recruiting class de-commits because you can't build around him? That responsibility is on Fuente. In year five, with all of his coaches and recruits, and he's still not able to meet expectations? That's a real problem.

Add in the constant fumbling of the athletic department and the foot-in-mouth tendencies towards P5 transfers, the Baylor thing and now COVID, and...the guy just isn't for me.

Fuente was brought in here to elevate the program. Period. The "program" - that is not the same thing as "the final 4 years of Beamer's tenure"- no he was brought in here to elevate the offense to top 20-top 15- hasn't done that yet. He was brought in here to improve recruiting - nope. He was brought in here to maintain status quo on a top 10 defensive program over the past 20 years- nope. So the "program" for the better part of 25 years was competitive for conference championships, and lost some marquee games- because we didn't have the top end talent or depth or modern offense to win those games. Fuente has slightly improved the offense. That's it thus far. He has not "elevated" the program one bit overall.

And last year's class could be forgiven, whether it be for being a fluke or the low number of scholarships available. This year there isn't a great excuse that every other school doesn't have.

A new defensive staff isn't a good excuse for a bottom-tier class either, especially considering over half of these commits are on the defensive side of the ball.

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

I would argue that the going to a modern offense in the last of the Beamer years actually caused the program to decline further. I think the niche of Virginia Tech as a smash mouth football team was lost when that change was made.

To your point, I agree Fuente has not done any of those things you mentioned successfully. I think the identity of the program to separate it from the rest of the recruiting rivals has hampered that upper level trajectory needed to elevate.

Where I will give Fuente credit is he hasn't made the program horribly worse. That's generally happened when a highly successful coach retires or is forced to retire or leaves and the next guy takes the reigns. He didn't Zook the program.

I think this is great post. One counter point I'd like to include is that Fuente has done a lot to operationally improve our program. Getting hudl, expanding our recruit staff beyond one person, etc. Now, that doesn't absolve him of responsibility, but it is evidence that he had an uphill battle when he got here (and/or that he was flying a little blind when it came to running a P5 program).

Twitter me

I don't see how you can separate "the program" with where we were the last 4 years of Beamer's tenure. Fuente did NOT take over a "program" that was winning 10 games a season. You're saying that we should be competing for conference championships each year. But that's not the program Fuente inherited. The last 2 years of Beamer's tenure we were a UVA loss away from a losing season and the end of our bowl streak. And I guarantee you that if we'd played this past year's UVA team either of those 2 years, our bowl streak would have ended then.

The argument that you can make and is valid is whether we are where we think we should be given the hype of Fuente being a QB whisperer and talented offensive mind. The challenge is being realistic with what our program was when Beamer left. And us being a top 10 defense program for such a long stretch clearly didn't continue, despite having the same (legendary) defensive coordinator, so I don't know how to blame that one on Fuente. What we can say is that if the defense falls on it's face in coming years, that IS on Fuente because JHam was his hire.

I separate it because had Fuente stated at his opening press conference that "I'm here to improve on Franks final years, and win 7 games and beat UVA and hire 3 additional recruiting staff", this site and every passionate Hokie fan would have laughed it off the stage. My comment is based on the whole scenario when Fuente was hired. - He was ab "offensive mind"- which was the clear direction- Bud Foster didn't even get an interview for the job from Whit. Fuente was attracted to the job BECAUSE Bud would stay on - so you have a high powered offense, with a great defense. Makes total sense, and has nothing to do with Beamer's final recruiting classes where he couldn't speak well due to throat cancer. That was and is not the "bar" for success. The 2 main criticisms of Frank Beamer over his career are - Can't win the big game on the big stage, and a stoneage offense. Fuente was hired to elevate that- not beat UVA and win 7 games.

Elevating a program on the heels of a hall of fame coach is a tough ask. For what it is worth, Fuente seems to have a lot of confidence in the current direction of the program. If you haven't yet, check out the sons of Saturday podcast.

"If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?"

I have- it's a great podcast. I'm not giving up on Fu. Like I said- he is a fine game day coach- he doesn't blunder timeouts, etc. He gets the team ready for opening games (minus tennessee)- not bad at all. I'm giving him a couple more years. If in 2022 we are losing to BC, etc. I think his time here would be done.

This isn't intended for dcwilson40 specifically, although I guess I'd love his input too because he touched on something I've been wondering about for a long time. I feel like the non-name-brand losses will not stop unless or until this team achieves a top-10 level on a regular basis, and we're a ways from that, because right now, we're more like a top-30 to top-50 level team on a regular basis.

"If in 2022 we are losing to BC, etc. I think his time here would be done."

The ACC is an infuriating conference to be a part of. Outside of Clemson, there are no true football powers right now. Yet, in any given year, any team, particularly in the coastal, could be "8 or maybe 9 wins good." I'm not trying to say that the Coastal is a strong division by any measure, but I feel like it's strong enough that only true CFP contenders would go 8-0 in conference on a yearly basis. I think if you took your average team ranked somewhere between 11 and 20 and ran them through this conference year after year, they'd have a few 8-0s, but it wouldn't consistent.

What does Fuente need to achieve for us to be "NY6 good"? I feel like we've gotta cross that threshold before we ever get to "CFP good." So what level of performance is that? 6-2 or maybe 7-1 in ACC play with a nice showing in ACCCG most years?

2022 will be year 7 for Fuente at a football school with high expectations and great fan support. If after 7 years here, he is not competing at the top of the coastal it's time for a change. It's all about the priorities of the program. At VT, football is king. We can't afford to mire in 3rd place in the coastal. Sure parity can cause you to lose a headscratcher, but after 7 years it would be time.

At VT, football is king. We can't afford to mire in 3rd place in the coastal.

This THis THIS!!

I gave him a pass on 2018 cause of the injuries and off field issues. We had a great run through the second half of 2019, but closed on a dud. That run brings me hope that if this season is even played, we have as best of a shot since 2016 to get back to a NY6, and build momentum to compete for the ACC in years to come.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

I appreciate these comments. It is easy to assume, in listening to someone criticize Fuente and our staff, that they have given up on them and are ready for an immediate firing. You levy criticism often, but hearing that you haven't given up on him is helpful.

I know, right? what do you want the coach to say?

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

I think it will depend on the range.

5 points up or down was all that separated 37-47 last year.

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

Well, I guess it would be a good thing at this point to need 5 points to get us into the top 40...

Is coronavirus over yet?

A few classes ago (2018?), 247 and Rivals re-ranked recruits after senior year film was produced. We got bumped up several spots with some players getting a 4th star.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

Most of those guys like Tayvion, Pinckney, and King were already very close to a 4th star and got bumped barely over. It looked good for our BC numbers but didn't facilitate a huge change in our final rankings.

I hate to be this guy, but I think it's worth pointing out that the recruiting services are going to be less accurate than ever before this year. I'm not saying 'stars don't matter,' but I do think there's a (reasonable) chance to believe that this year's class could be overachievers relative to their rankings. I don't think that was reasonably likely for any of the previous classes.

Twitter me

I can almost guarantee we will not get at least 2 of those players and more than likely at least 3-4

Go for it

Big emphasis on perfect storm

Honestly not too worried about overall class rankings though, as long as we get good players at positions of need. There really is a good chance we have a solid class that's 6 or 7th in the ACC and ~40th nationally.

(Williams, Boone, Hollifield, Watson (or Gilliam or Jackson), Estime (or a TX back), Mugharbil (or Pounds), Lee (or Miller)) Would like another LB and QB personally, but anyone else is icing on the cake. How about that 4 star DT that also plays baseball?

Was glancing through a few recent classes and saw that our 2017 class was 26th by composite team rankings, but 16th by their in-house team rankings.

My first thought was I'm going to check the disparity in player rating between Farley and Keene from composite to their in-house rankings as a little double check to my personal rule of thumb I've posted about in regards to which you should value when there is a disparity between the two...

The results:

Caleb Farley: Composite 3* 27th ranked athlete at .8781 -- 247 inhouse 4* 6th ranked athlete at 93 rating

Dalton Keene: Composite 3* 37th ranked athlete at .8665 -- 247 inhouse 4* 9th ranked athlete at 92 rating

Pretty good calls by their inhouse evaluators compared to the industry.

edit: a few more

Hendon Hooker: Composite 4* 11th ranked DT QB at .8903 -- Inhouse 4* 5th ranked DT QB at 91 rating

Christian Darrisaw: Composite 3* 171st ranked OT at .8109 -- Inhouse 3* 80th ranked T at 86 rating (He went on to prep and remained higher rated on 247 inhouse, though increased on both)

Silas Dzansi (Prep): Composite 3* .8556 -- Inhouse 4* 90 rating (both ranked #1 overall OT, in recent years the prep rankings are not very expansive).

They were about equal on Dylan Rivers (potential lost to unfortunate injuries), Devon Hunter (still a chance to shine), and Nathan Proctor (looking like a bad eval from services at this point, but he may still have some eligibility left). Composite was a bit higher than 247 on Ashby, but relatively close.

I've been wondering, how can you tell what the in-house team rankings are? Is that what the little number inside the square represents on the team rankings page?

Yes, it's the small number beneath. I have accidentally ended up on a page where it was reversed! I have yet to be able to recreate that.

So I have some honest questions - not trying to be snarky or anything. I'll admit I'm not good at evaluating incoming talent. I rely a lot on what other people on here (especially the staff and their breakdowns) think of the commits' and their film. So far, it seems like all the feedback has been rather positive (that's the overall vibe I've gotten from the comments). Based on the comments coming into this recruiting cycle about last year's class, I would have expected a lot more negative feedback related to the commits' rankings and stars, but it didn't seem to be there - people seemed pleased with the film of the recruits. I also haven't heard anybody say with any of the recruits anything like "there's no way that guy will be competitive in the ACC." Somebody just commented about the current class ranking and projected final ranking, and now we're back to "Fuente has crap class," "Fuente is running the program into the ground," and stuff like that. Are we really not happy with this class? I read that not having camps has hurt ratings. Is there any sort of overall total rating - like are all ratings, on average, lower because there hasn't been as much opportunity to evaluate recruits (ESPN only has 3 guys rated above 90 and only 13 five star rated guys)? Are top teams overall getting high ranked classes and there's a gap in overall scores because less players have been evaluate or have lower scores? Are we getting guys who legitimately deserve to be ranked higher but legitimately suffered because of lack of camps? I see a bunch of teams in the top 25 who only have 14-17 recruits currently. I'm interest in the staff's take on, regardless of recruit rankings, if these players are good takes (which it sounds like they have been from the articles).

The only other thought I have is that I feel really surprised that the Tapp & Teerlinck hires haven't translated to higher rated recruits. I wouldn't think there'd be many opportunities to have better coaching and NFL prep than that. Yeah, maybe people want to win and don't think they'll do it at Tech, but still, getting NFL ready and coached by a guy who was coaching NFL linemen this year seems like it should be a bigger draw, regardless of anything else.

I think ratings overall will be weird because it was like the Junior year evaluation was the final evaluation by the services...many players rise or drop senior year. So team evaluations become paramount. With that said, as far as class rank relative to our competition, we are all fishing the same pond. So either they got all the droppers and we got all the risers, or else there is still room for concern. Either way I somehow feel pretty good about this class so far.

"If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?"

Just my opinion - In all kinds of recruitment - athletes to business, the most important factor is the candidate being a good fit for the systems and processes that makes you good. People like Beamer, Chris Peterson, Mike Gundy, made a living out of knowing what that system is and finding the best fit. To give credit where credit is due, Bronco Mendenhall seems to do the same thing - establish an identity and then recruit to that. Stars are useful in the top tier - all it means is that in a generalist sense, the candidate might fit multiple schemes. But stars are few in numbers (obviously, since everyone wants those few). So unless you have some type of a special charisma (coach power / previous greatness / traditions / plain dang salesmanship) to exude to the candidate, what usually works best is to hire / recruit with transparency on who you are, what your values are, what your goals are, and what your methods are.

To add on to that, I think it will take a couple of years for Tapping and Teerlink to establish their unique identity. It did for Vice, and it is starting to look good on that side, so too early to call it either way for D line now, I think. But then, I tend to be an optimist.

Back to recruiting news, where Jersey Hokie at?

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

Hell of another pickup by robie and the squadπŸ˜ƒπŸ˜Ž

I've got this feeling
The tide is turning now baby
Funny feeling everything's gonna be alright now

Hokies are picking up some prediction on rivals for Kenji Christian 3 star RB from Alabama πŸ‘€

I've got this feeling
The tide is turning now baby
Funny feeling everything's gonna be alright now

This is lovely news.