Ask TKP: 2018, Do you want Josh Jackson, Hooker, or QP?

So this is my first Forum topic, I read through the community guidelines, so hopefully I don't butcher this, and hopefully it'll be the first of many good topics to come, since my brain, in spirit, always resides in the Burg'.

The question I have isn't meant to throw shade at Josh Jackson as a quarterback or anything, let me preface with that. However, after the Miami game, I couldn't help but ask myself this question:

Do you want Josh Jackson to start for us throughout his entire Tech career (junior/senior season)?

I am asking this in a brief way to spur conversation, rather than dictating the direction the conversation goes. I feel if I give some backstory as to why I am asking this, you might start to argue certain things like "He has a great deep ball what are you talking about" or "He just needs time in the system." I'd rather you as the "objective" contributor just ask yourself the question I posed above, with a couple of additional questions:

1. Do you think Josh Jackson can get us "over the hump?" (I understand he's a freshman, I simply want you to pull out your crystal ball, and forecast based upon what you've seen)

2. Do you think Hendon Hooker or QP give us a better shot at clearing "the hump," even if they start as freshmen?

3. How would you feel if Fuente made next year's camps an open competition again? (I've gotten so used to Beamer handing the position over to the incumbent, that I don't know if Fuente would do the same, I know his history says otherwise)

4. Last but not least how would you feel for JJ, if he did lose his starting gig in a competition, knowing that he's such a good kid, and stuck around even amidst all the unknowns with Beamer's departure?

I am not asking any of this, with a morbid approach to the rest of the season, I hope we finish the season off strong, and win out, just like the next Hokie fan, but I can't help but look ahead a little, to see what will be best for the program long term. I think of Tahj Boyd and Deshaun Watson and how they were program changing talents, at what many call one of the most important positions on the football field, and I can't help but peek into the future, and see what's the best call for us that will take our team to the next level. JJ can be that guy, for sure, but what do you think, would love to hear the forum's thoughts.

Disclaimer 1: Would love to get French and the smart guys to chime in too.
Disclaimer 2: Please stick to chatting primarily about the QB position, I know we have tons of recruiting to do, to catch up to the blue bloods, this forum doesn't need to become YET ANOTHER topic that deviates into us complaining about how we never get the 4*'s 5*'s, I simply want to chat about the QB's that are currently on the roster, and or coming into the fold next year.

DISCLAIMER: Forum topics may not have been written or edited by The Key Play staff.

Comments

I want whoever the coaching staff wants. Even if I had an opinion that I wanted to make a case for it wouldn't be strong enough to sway others anyway.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

Have been ignoring this thread for little bit because this more or less exactly fits my opinion, which does not do much for discussion.

Sometimes we live no particular way but our own

Hey man, that opinion is enough in itself, I seen this thread as an opportunity to help me think more rationally as a fan, your comment contributes to the list of options available to me, leg for you sir.

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Disregard my previous post.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

#jackvick2018

twitter @smithey_daniel
head scout BSP scouting specializing in north florida/ southern GA highschool football scouting

But then I saw this, and was reminded how it is (almost) always worth the time to read threads where you don't have much to say, because you never know what others might have to add.

Sometimes we live no particular way but our own

Pretty sure Click walked on Senior Day and isn't coming back. Ryan Willis as the new Jack Click?

So the "newbie" posted this twice in the forum, so if one of the admins could delete my other post that would be great, hopefully the comments won't start pouring in there too...sigh...Monday morning blues

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

0-1 on forum topics my friend.

Hey I warned everyone I might butcher it, and butcher it I did...sigh

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

It's ok dude we're all fans and we all just want to win football games. I can understand you for posing the question in your mind but I wish you had left it there until the off season. This is a very well read site both by fans and players and the Monday after a gut wrenching loss isn't the time to pose the "should we move on from X". It's disrespectful to the players involved and irrelevant to our season. Let's go kick CPJ's ass up and down the field this Saturday.

Well played, I guess I didn't factor in that it would be only but SO objective. Will surely keep in mind for future posts, not to speak bad of anyone, I do know there are fans here who go off the deep end easy, don't want to be one of THOSE fans. Meant to be a personnel question more than anything else, I love JJ, thus question 4.

To sum it up, let's go destroy some "yella jackets"

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

Lighten up Francis. He's not breaking any rules, nor is this disrespectful to anyone. He's a fan and bringing a fairly normal discussion topic to a message board.

agreed. and the way I read the post wasn't should we bench josh this season but more who do we think is the best answer long term. which I think we all are very curious about, have an opinion about, and like to talk about. sure its getting ahead of ourselves but were fans were allowed too. we don't go 1-0 we go national championship then when that's gone acc championship, and if that goes we go coastal winner, and if that goes we go hopefully 10 wins and then a decent bowl game and if that goes we go we beat LOLUVA and if that goes we fire everyone and jump of bridges.

twitter @smithey_daniel
head scout BSP scouting specializing in north florida/ southern GA highschool football scouting

I'm a newbie, certainly open to getting a feel for the TKP environment, didn't take any offense at all; I think as a fan you don't think a recruit or an active player might come here, but if there is that oft chance, I want all the team and coaches to know, though I disagree with some of the coaching decisions, and overall play, I'm a 100% behind them, especially during the season.

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

I can see where you're coming from, but let me make two points with no disrespect to you, more just to vent about a lot of the stuff I've seen on here lately:

1) There may be players that read this site, but it is indeed a fan forum. As long as he's in the community guidelines, there's nothing wrong with him sharing whatever he wants. Just as some people choose to participate or not in the uniform debates, the same applies here.

2) In regards to not posting something because "It's disrespectful to the players involved...". If that was a rule here, then about 75% of the comments made in a drunken stupor after every loss we have directed at the players and coaches would be flagged. However, this isn't the case. We're all fans, we all have opinions, and this is the place to share them.

"What kind of person would throw away a perfectly good dog?"

If a player gets his feelings hurt by reading minor criticism on a fan forum he shouldn't be playing Div. I football.

The doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me.

Here are my rules of thumb:

1) Never expect a true freshman to start. Ever. If QP wins the job, I would be shocked. But, if he does, I know he is beating out talented players.

2) In terms of the highest upside in this offense, I think Hooker is the guy amongst the three returners. Again, same rule- Hooker has tremendous upside, but the adjustment from HS to college especially at QB is intense. I think Bush is one hell of a runner, but he just isn't a good enough passer to be the guy with this WR group. They need a QB to work them open and be very accurate.

I expect Jackson to start, and wouldn't be completely shocked if Hooker beats him out.

Five star get after it 100 percent Juice Key-Playing. MAN

Barring injuries, how likely do you think it is that JJ starts against UVA in Blacksburg in 2018?

Gonna try to make this response out to be "non-groupie" like, but it's a pleasure getting a response from the one and only.

With that out the way:
1. I agree, a successful true freshman is certainly an anomaly, and thus I don't forsee QP even having a chance, unless he's leaps and bounds above everyone, that Elite 11 showing though in my mind makes it a possible if he catches on quickly, and that's a HUGE if.

and,

2. Hooker is what spurned this thought, I wonder if the absence of a dynamic running threat is hindering this offense with the current personnel. As you stated in one of your other posts, JJ would've been better suited with the athletes we had last year. The few passes I've seen Bush throw he's gotten it out quick though, and that's what makes me wonder if he's even an option too (granted that's against 2's and 3's). Fu seems to have put an emphasis on ball protection this season over any other factor (even athleticism), which I don't fault him for.

I know it's a less important question though, but would ya feel bad for JJ? I never really played sports much, and I know it's a competition based environment, but I can't help feeling for these kids if they do get beat out, seeing all the punishment they take the season before.

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

I'll take the best QB to start.

If I had to guess, I think next year is an open competition between JJ and Hooker while QP redshirts.

In 2019, I expect QP to be the starter.

Totally agree!

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

If JJ has the confidence of the coaching staff to notch two full seasons the starter, I would be pretty surprised if anybody were unseating him for his Jr/Sr years, especially for a freshman who has never taken a collegiate snap, as talented as that freshman might be. That is very unusual in college football.

It is tough to know the future at QB with JJ a r-frosh, Hooker redshirting now, and QP coming in next year and potentially redshirting as well.

Let's just say QP does redshirt.... thats leaves us with JJ a r-soph and Hooker a r-frosh. the following year you have JJ a r-junior, Hooker a r-soph, and QP a r-frosh.

Do you really see Fuente riding out JJ til his senior year leaving Hooker and QP 1 and 2 years max playing time respectively? I just don't see it. One of those guys I see transferring IMO. I could be wrong and nobody can see into the future on how good either one of these QB's will be but this will be a sticky situation that Fuente will have to figure out.

Bleeding burnt orange and chicago maroon

I think that's my greatest concern is losing one of these talents, for the sake of preventing turnovers. I always prefer a high ceiling versus a high floor, if that makes sense.

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

if one leaves it means they didn't beat out someone else (in theory) and QB is the one spot of the field that depth isn't a concern when theyre all the same year. the % of snaps a back up QB plays are very low. obviously an injury can drastically change that. but besides motley Its been a while since a back up has gotten any meaningful PT in Blacksburg in a while.

twitter @smithey_daniel
head scout BSP scouting specializing in north florida/ southern GA highschool football scouting

I fully expect JJ to start next year.

It would take a lot of talent differential to overcome the first year of game experience.

In the event Hooker passes him up, it's because his play is outstanding, and that's a good thing.

You don't think Hooker having a year in the system, and having the wheels would cast doubt on your expectations for JJ to start next year?

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

I think JJ will have to cause us to lose games before he is deposed.

Free Hugh

I don't think a year in the system is the same as two years in the system, with one of those being in real games against many of the same teams VT will face.

I expect Jackson to start the rest of his time here. It's extremely rare for a freshman QB playing as well as he has been to lose his job due to anything other than injury.

I actually like QP over Hendon post-JJ era.

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

Interesting, so would you say, you think the injection of more play-makers around him, and more seasoned skill position players is enough to get us over the proverbial hump?

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

Yeah I definitely think that. He's already really smart and mature for a redshirt freshman. I think we need the WRs to grow up and to get higher-level talent in the backfield and that will really help him.

Also, the few mistakes JJ has made are ones that will be much less frequent after another year of experience in the system. I think it's easy for us to wonder whether he's got "it" or not simply because he's not exactly a playmaker like Tyrod or Evans, but I think he'll be a very good quarterback for a multiple years.

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

I think JJ is good, but lets look at his stats thus far:

Month of September: 104 - 159, 1378 Yards, 12 TD's, 3 INT's
October and Beyond: 65 - 112, 851 Yards, 5 TD's, 3 INT

When we got into ACC play, he has struggled to put up the same numbers as versus our opponents in September. Even if we throw out the Duke game. I think if someone else steps up that does not turn the ball over and is mobile enough to get yardage, they'll win out.

Again, he's a redshirt freshman. If we expected 60% and a 10-2 ratio in ACC play so far, those aren't average redshirt freshman numbers. We'd be setting the bar too high for this year and fooling ourselves. Give him time and he'll be a really good QB.

For what it's worth, I think we win out this year with JJ. If we put in another QB next week? We lose two games.

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

It seems to me that we've lost a little bit of confidence in either the 1) Wide Receivers or 2) JJ being able to make plays with his arm though since we've gotten into ACC play. And some of that is the caliber of team that we have faced.

Maybe if we came out with a little more confidence in the first quarter in the passing game, we'd have a little more boost on offense for the remainder of the game.

I definitely agree that our first quarter offense has been lacking all season. For whatever reason, it did last year too.

I also am of the mindset that as far as our wide receivers go, I think we should take vertical shots with the ones we've got, but it looks like the offense is totally geared towards passes less than 20 yards, and usually less than 10 yards downfield. For all of the praise Jackson has gotten for his downfield passing, I hope we utilize him more that way for the rest of this season.

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

For all of the praise Jackson has gotten for his downfield passing, I hope we utilize him more that way for the rest of this season.

100% - and it starts this weekend. GT is not the best in pass coverage and will give up the big plays - we gotta take our shots to make that happen.

QP won't start.

Hooker has physical tools and capabilities JJ doesn't have, and a much higher ceiling. Go all in on him.

I think that's where I'm at, but I'm still open to being swayed; I don't want this topic to sound like I want to give JJ the boot, because clearly he can guide us to at least a point of being talked about a potential playoff contender, so I'm not taking the Clemson/Miami losses and saying bench the guy next year,

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

QP's job next year is to ride the pine, learn the playbook and put on 15 pounds of muscle. Next years starter is Jackson with Hooker moving to WR.

Was this /s? QP also plays Mike LB for his HS team and is built like a tank. We will be needing to spend less time in the weight room and more time learning the playbook and developing a rapport with the new WR's we have coming in.

So you're saying QP needs to sit a year to learn Bud's system at mike? /s

You're confusing TE with Linebacker. Common error.

2022 Season Challenge: Wrasslin'
Previous Challenges: Star Wars (2019), Marvel (2020), Batman (2021)

I'm cheating off of Fuente for my answer.

If you play it, they will win.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used." -The BoD

JJ is not a runner in the same sense as Mike Vick or Tyrod Taylor. He can change the launchpoint and throw accurate balls. He will and should definitely start next season. He's only building on what he has in his Arsenal.

I also think he will win out his Junior year and could have a huge season to go onto the NFL. he's a solid QB and I truly believe he can get us over the hump.

We see Kellet Starting at Clemson as a Junior, I think it will be the case with Hooker with some playing time sprinkled here and there. Remember Josh was supposed to be the back-up this season.

I dont think we can really speculate for the future too much. After logan we had Brewer, with Motley and then Evans for one year. For atleast 3 years we will probably have some stability and get solid wins with Jackson before we turn it over to Hooker/Patterson.

Hokies, Local Soccer, AFC Ajax, Ravens

The best one will start. If Fuente has proven one thing over his entire coaching career, he doesn't care about seniority, he cares about putting the best team on the field. Just because Jackson is playing this year doesn't mean he has a leg up on next, it just means he has a little more experience. If Hooker shows he's better in the spring and summer, he'll be starting in the fall.

This is my school
This is home

See that's where I'm at, I don't think Fuente takes seniority into consideration at all, which is why that lessens the sad feeling I'd get if they do start Hooker next year, the QB's knew what they were getting into when sticking around (or being recruited) by a guy like Coach Fu

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

French's assessment is pretty spot on. I think if JJ had gotten us another ACC Coastal crown and potentially pulled off a amazing victory against Clemson, I would say he would be a lock for the next couple years starting. Even with a 9-3 or 10-2 finish, everything I have seen from Hooker from the Spring Game and SnapChat stories tell me that he will push Jackson HARD for the starting spot next year.

Hooker has a bigger arm than Jackson and is a significantly better runner. He has had a year to learn the system and even though Jackson is a a heady QB, I think any QB under Fuente will protect the ball well.

I think Jackson has a ceiling of like a Bryan Randall, maybe get us to a few ACC Championship games and win one. I think Hooker has a Deshaun Watson type ceiling and can bring home the first team nat'l championship to the Burg.

See that's where I'm at, always thought of JJ as more of the Randall mode, which I loved Randall, met him at the entrance point to Bourbon St after the Sugar Bowl loss to Auburn, as humble and down to earth of a QB as could be.

But unlike you, I see Hooker more of the Boyd mold, and Patterson in the Watson mold, I feel like Patterson is going to potentially bring us to the promise land, and I have no definitive reason to believe that other than the tape I've seen like everyone else.

Selfishly, I just hope all 3 stick around.

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

That's an interesting take considering Boyd is more stockier like Quincy with Watson and Hooker being more lean and quick. But either way its a good problem to have 3 guys that are of such high caliber. I would feel bad for Jackson if Hooker get the starting nod but ultimately I just want us to win the big games, and Evans/Jackson haven't shown that ability so far. Now as it's been said by French's post this morning, it doesn't matter who is out there next year if we can't block better, get more vertical threat WR's, and have RB's that make people miss.

JJ reminds me of Jason Campbell to be honest than randall. randall was run first QB most of his career here at tech. josh will NEVER be that.

twitter @smithey_daniel
head scout BSP scouting specializing in north florida/ southern GA highschool football scouting

I really hope it's not an issue and it's clearly JJ's job.

That said, I would be lying if if I didn't acknowledge losing a bit of confidence in JJ the last few weeks. Certainly, there have been a handful of runs/scrambles where a guy like Hooker could have got 20+ yards or so. And we desperately need that with our lackluster RB situation. I always justified that with JJ distributing the ball and minimizing mistakes. JJ has also had some Al Clark pocket presence recently.

But I just don't think it's going to be Hooker. I would expect if JJ gets beat out, it's either by the guy from Kansas being a superior passer (and maybe even a better scrambler) or QB beating him out in 2019+. Hooker's motion has always looked a little long and loose for me. He's a great athlete who could bring a lot to the run game, but from what little I've seen, I'm not sure he's the one to beat out JJ.

That said, I hope JJ starts for 4 years.

The only player more popular than the backup QB is the phenom QB recruit who has yet to take a college snap...

Also, for future reference, I think you meant spur, not spurn.

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

Although I hate being corrected if just for the sake that I misused a word, my wife would appreciate you doing so, so for her, you get a leg sir lol

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

Although I hate being corrected

my wife appreciate you doing so

2022 Season Challenge: Wrasslin'
Previous Challenges: Star Wars (2019), Marvel (2020), Batman (2021)

Editing as we speak, you sir get a leg as well (literally laughed out loud at work)

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

I feel all of this is moot if we don't see some better Oline play and a couple of solid can't miss receivers to count on catching the ball. Not dissing the thread at all but if we don't see an uptick in those two areas then whoever gets the start is going to have a tough haul. That said I love JJ and I think that with Fu's coaching there will be a higher ceiling as he develops and the trust is earned. He's done a good job and with the pieces in place I mentioned earlier I think the need to run will be overshadowed by his ability to move the ball with his arm. Experience and smarts trump athleticism IMO and JJ starts next year.

I'm with you, I think there are a ton of variables that will factor into JJ reaching his full potential. I was trying to scale down the question though as much as possible to prevent the thread from going all over the place. But I agree with you totally, OL play is at the top of the list, with a capable gamebreaker RB (hoping for Ford, I went to North Stafford, so the homer in me wants it to be Ford), and a vertical threat (I'm hoping it'll be Caleb, just because this year was such a bummer for him)

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

My money is on Dwayne Lawson....or Andrew Ford, bit of a toss-up

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

This....
And it begins (Nothing like some at work TKP "spurred" chuckles)

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

Wrong. Leal should definitely be the starter.

Jackson needs to be able to run the ball.

He's the best passer, for sure, but I loved what I saw on Hooker's high school tape passing the ball. (Was high on JJ in HS as well). Not as high on QP as most here. I agree with French in that Hooker's upside is exponential. I have no #sauces on how he's developing, but I think he's in serious QB1 discussions next season.

I think Josh has been really good this season. He's left a lot to be desired in the running department.

Always choose joy.

But that's the thing, if we get a stud in the backfield, do we really need him to run often? I hoped to frame my question with the incoming class, and the current roster, which if by some chance we sign someone, like say, a Mr. Ford, do we need JJ to run often? (playing devil's advocate)

Edit: Ford is 2019, so doesn't factor into my argument as much

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

I think looking at the Clemson mold, even when they had a stud running back like Gallman, Watson still needed to run to make big plays, just like Tyrod and David Wilson. Devyn Ford (if we land him) is the only elite running back I can see alleviating this problem unless Holston, Wheatley, or Graham end up being studs.

I don't agree with wythvilleian92 that Jackson is definitely the best passer, Jackson has underthrown deep balls often and isn't incredibly accurate. Hooker from limited tape looks like he has a big arm and can be just as if not more accurate than Jackson. I do agree that it's going to be a interesting race between Jackson, Hooker, and Bush next year.

I feel like JJ's deepball issues are because he waits until the receiver gets open to release the ball, rather than anticipating and leading them. This will hopefully get better with more experience and reps with the WRs

exit light

That would probably get better if he had confidence that there might be some separation there.

Yes, yes we do. We need a running threat at QB if we're going to realize the full potential of the spread. It's like having a chainsaw without a chain.

Reality has a mighty pimp hand.

This.... Plus I expect our OL will take a step back next year losing 3 starters, which will require our QB1 to run for his life even more-so than this year...

There will definitely be a competition every single offseason. It's just a matter of how long the competition lasts. That's who Fuente is. Even if Evans had come back, if Fu really felt like JJ out did him all offseason he would have sat. I think that philosophy is the right one. So if HH or QP outplay Jackson all offseason he'll sit too.

That being said, I think Jackson starts next year. I just don't see Hooker outpacing a solid R-So Jackson after only one cycle through the system. THAT being said, I could see his athleticism really pushing Jackson hard in 2019.

But wouldn't his athleticism and year under his belt potentially push him into the QB1 talk if just because we don't have the personnel we need yet to compete? I mean I know we have Turner (not sure if he's a deep threat, as much as he has height), Chatman, Simmons, and Graham (ATH); I feel like Hooker has to start the more I see the little that we've recruited from the RB position, maybe I'm missing someone, I know beck is speedy and shifty, but not sure about asking someone of his caliber to contribute immediately.

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

Why cant we have both JJ and the Hooker next year? That could fun site to see!

Allen Ox

I understand JJ is young, and the kid is tough as nails. He's looked good against weak competition. But he has done NOTHING in our biggest games of the season against Clemson, Miami, and if we're being perfectly honest half of the West Virginia game as well.

I'm definitely not married to the idea of him as our starting QB for years to come when we repeatedly can't move the ball with him on the biggest stage. If he still comes out on top of a three way competition next offseason, so be it. But I find it hard to believe Hooker and QP would be much worse and are probably better options in the long run with their upside.

I certainly don't want to grade a redshirt freshmen, with a compliment of youthful WR's (3 upper-class receivers), a questionable OL when matched against elite DL talent, and a rotation of RBs that haven't been able to really separate from each other. Clemson and Miami have tons of speed, and great DL's, and WVU threw a odd 3-3-5 formation at him, for his first collegiate start. I don't want to burn the kid at the stake through this discussion.

Like you though I'm not married to the idea of him starting for four years, and I lean heavily towards a good competition next spring/summer. I'm hoping by that time we'll have more speed at the skill positions, and most importantly more of an ability to get vertical to take that cap off of the defense finally. I have no preference on who takes that cap off, whether it be JJ, QP, AJ or HH; I simply want to experience putting a game in the chokehold from beginning to end offensively, rather than a slow start, and a 2nd half explosion, or a conservative slow game overall.

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

But he has done NOTHING in our biggest games of the season against Clemson, Miami, and if we're being perfectly honest half of the West Virginia game as well.

I think we win the Miami game if our wideouts don't drop all those passes that even the pro-Miami ESPN announcers called them out on. That wasn't on JJ.

2022 Season Challenge: Wrasslin'
Previous Challenges: Star Wars (2019), Marvel (2020), Batman (2021)

JJ leaves next year after winning the Heisman and National Championship. Hooker does the same the following year. Then QP does it twice and leaves.

Duh.

This isn't a strictly wrong topic fyi, but it's heavily frowned upon just because the players read TKP.

Do you want Josh Jackson to start for us throughout his entire Tech career (junior/senior season)?

What makes you think JJ will be here past 3 years? 3 years = draft eligibility. Assuming he works on his accuracy, and shows good coverage diagnosis skills, he's exactly what NFL teams like the Patriots are looking for to sit behind Brady and learn/replace.

1. Do you think Josh Jackson can get us "over the hump?" (I understand he's a freshman, I simply want you to pull out your crystal ball, and forecast based upon what you've seen)

Yes. He's Tajh Boyd 2.0. Not fast or shifty, but athletic enough, tough enough, and accurate enough.

2. Do you think Hendon Hooker or QP give us a better shot at clearing "the hump," even if they start as freshmen?

Not if they're freshmen. Not even if they're R-Fr. R-So? Yes. Athletic QBs bring more to the table. With this WR corps? I haven't watched enough of either to know how their short/medium throw game looks, bit they better have JJ-esque quality there if they're gonna do it with this WR corps.

3. How would you feel if Fuente made next year's camps an open competition again? (I've gotten so used to Beamer handing the position over to the incumbent, that I don't know if Fuente would do the same, I know his history says otherwise)

It better be an open competition. Nobody gets better by not competing.

4. Last but not least how would you feel for JJ, if he did lose his starting gig in a competition, knowing that he's such a good kid, and stuck around even amidst all the unknowns with Beamer's departure?

I'd feel for him, but I expect he could transfer and make a team with all the other pieces, LSU maybe?, look great that fast.

“I remember Lee Corso's car didn't get out of the parking lot.” -cFB
TKPC #666 ...man that was long wait...

I want open competition for every job on the field and I want the best guy to play, no matter who. No one ever has to apologize if the best player plays.

In that vein, DeJuan Ellis has mad QB skills and Ryan Willis has NFL measurables, 9 P5 starts, and will have had a year under Fu's watchful eye. I wouldn't write off either of them.

Finally, IMO the best play in college football is the one man play action, which forces the defense to play 11 on 12. That requires the QB be a legit running threat. All other things equal, that's who I pick.

Gotta say with my lack of experience grading players and recruits I'm deferring to the coaches. Whomever CJF says is the starter I'm good with. Will they have bad games?? Sure. But if I was adept at saying this guy is better than this guy I would be doing something else making more money in the pros or something.

To the other point, I think CJF will have the QB spot be a competition every year. Why would you not? If Hooker beats our JJ next year great. If not, then JJ is still the better option.

Trust in Fuente.

If you don't want to recruit clowns, don't run a clown show.

"I want to punch people from UVA right in the neck." - Colin Cowherd

I agree I default to them, but the Beamer years didn't feel like a competition at the QB position, else I believe Tyrod would've started way earlier than that bludgeoning against LSU

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

So, one game?

These things have a way of working out. I don't mind the post by the way, I have had the same question in my mind. Its just way too soon to say anything except the best qb will play. Having options is a good thing.

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K

Perhaps we should start this conversation after the season ends.

@hokie_rd

Or maybe next year during spring camp.

Or maybe after Lawson decides whether he's transferring or not.

Using /s is for cowards.

For those of you who feel like this post is a little premature, I'm sorry you feel that way, as stated in my first sentence "The question I have isn't meant to throw shade at Josh Jackson as a quarterback or anything, let me preface with that," and I meant that, not so only for the fans to be assured of that, but also for the players to be assured of that as well. I would hope a athlete of their caliber would be able to handle opinions of their play, especially if they want to play the sport as a career. I don't think I bashed JJ or anything, because I really like the kid, and I hope he does well, thus the reason my question 4 was posed because I would legitimately feel devastated for the kid if he lost his gig knowing he stayed around when he had no reason to other than to trust the process under Fuente.

Being a first time poster, I'll always work to be respectful, and non confrontational, please know this response isn't meant to start anything, just wanted to yet again make my intent clear, as some of stated that I might've mishandled the post, nothing I see from JJ for the rest of the season will make me feel any less or any better about him, thus the reason I posted this question today rather than waiting. Hope the thread can continue to create some good conversation about our plethora of options at QB in the near future, as they say, it's a good problem to have

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

I don't think anyone is hating on your post. For me, just honestly think it would be better to discuss after the season is over. JJ was picked as the starter, this team still has a lot to play for at this point, and his passing stats are pretty decent for a redshirt Freshman that lost three really good targets. He isn't as good of a runner as Evans, but we knew that going into the season.

Giving legs, well a leg.

@hokie_rd

Oh by no means do I feel like anyone is hating, I know we are all Hokies, and I know the intention is to ensure that we don't scrap the season as a loss. I respect everyone's opinion, we all have opinions, and that's cool and I appreciate the people who are ok with talking about it before the season is over, and can still get behind JJ and rally the team to victories; just like I respect those people who feel this is a conversation that can wait, because it might impede our ability to support the team while we still have something to fight for.

I'm the newbie to the fold, but I'm all about tolerance, and I intend to make posts knowing that there are people who will be able to discuss the topics, and those who prefer not to. Because I'm most interested in engaging with those who want to talk about the topic, that's who I'll focus on, while respecting the opinion of those who don't want to discuss the topic in depth. At the end of the day, we all VT family, and that's all that matters. Cheers!

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

I think that JJ is the most stable thing in this years offense, the WR/OL/RB play have me more worried for the future than who is starting between JJ/HH/QP.

"And guess what, you've wandered into our school of tuna and we now have a taste of lion." -Allen Gamble, The Other Guys
@Doooougie07

I don't think Josh Jackson is really the problem, he's putting up freshman records for a reason. Yeah we're not playing amazing offense, but on paper this offense should be way worse than what the on field results show. This was a rebuilding year on offense, we knew that in the preseason. We're just disappointed now because for a fleeting moment we thought we were way more ahead of schedule than we actually were. But we are still ultimately ahead of schedule.

How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Jet Sweep

Great point, and definitely a good way to look at it, I think going into the season I was hoping to just make a bowl game, and after that WVU game, and killing the FedEx field curse, I was ready for a dynamic season, good to be reminded of what the expectations were before all the CFP talk started in the last few weeks.

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

I think that having the option of a good QB from position #1 to position #3 is a very good situation to be in. Right now we have a terrific QB that manages the football and game. I feel that each offseason will lead to QB competitions that crown the starter for the first week and I will trust the coaches that is the best QB for the team.

Now don't get me wrong, I for one am excited to see what this team can do in a couple years or even next year. I think this year is a great teaching year for all the young players and it helps get Fuente another year to recruit his type of player to help our depth situation.

I know you have said you are not bashing JJ and I don't get that notion from this post but I have heard people not be too big on him. To them I have to say, What more do you want the kid to do? He is still in his first season and is making seasoned player decisions and doing it well I might add. I think JJ can be the one to get us "over the hump" and I think he can grow into the leader that the offense is going to need.

Very good time to be a hokie!

I like Jacksons knowledge, I like his accuracy as a passer, and I think he will only get better. I don't think Fuente just gives up on him when we have only lost 2 games. We will have more weapons for JJ next year and he has put up some good numbers. Give him receivers like an experienced Savoy, Kumah, and Grimsley and then new guys like Farley, Hazelton, Turner, Ellis, Simmons and a healthy Patterson and he should have plenty of weapons to work with he also gets Pimpleton, Carroll, Murphy and Denmark returning. That group should have several studs and multiple others should be productive/dependable. JJs knowledge and accuracy will really help out next year. He seems like a good leader.

FIRST DOWN, HOKIES!

I keep up with recruiting pretty well, and the WR corps is going to surely get better in the coming 2018 season; but, is it just me, or is the RB a bigger position of need to get this offense moving at peak performance?

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

no worries on forum topic, TKP is meant to air out what it's and speculate.

I think the big thing for me is QP was Fuente pick. I don't see him starting as a freshman, but do think that gives him some edge. Granted by the we'll have a very experienced JJ and potentially new QB recruits to get excited about.

Previously LowBrau.

I was thinking hard about this the other night, and it is a hard question. I think when it comes to QB's, Jackson is pretty good. Most of our problems on O aren't his, he does not have a lot to work with. We have no running game, we have one receiver that is really good, and a freshman that's playing pretty well. No TE threat, and a Oline that isn't protecting him against good competition.

What hurts him is, as we have seen over the years, we need a running QB to be efficient on offense. I guess it just covers up other weaknesses. I really believe we beat Miami the other night with Evans. Jackson is a solid runner, but just a step slow to make a stagnant offense go. If we get other weapons, and we have a good group coming in, and if we get a good line, which is a question mark, Jackson will be a fine QB. Hooker is bigger, faster, and probably has a better arm. That doesn't make him a better QB, but with what we have, he might make our offense better.

Good news is, the QB position is not our problem. Jackson could be an all conference quarterback if we get the weapons around him.

First time poster, long time reader.

Since we're talking about QB's, we currently have 6 on the roster. Does anyone have any clue what the true depth chart would be if we didn't have to worry about redshirts or transfer rules? Based on playing time it appears the current order is Jackson, Bush, Click, and then maybe Mummau. So where do Hooker and Willis fit in?

How many QB's can a team realistically carry? None of our QB's are seniors, we have 2 commits, and someone usually tries to walk-on.

You want 6, minimum. 3 to compete to start/ backup/ redshirt and lead practice squad. and 3 to fill the backup position/ fill for injuries.

“I remember Lee Corso's car didn't get out of the parking lot.” -cFB
TKPC #666 ...man that was long wait...

If all could play, I'd think it would be:

Jackson
Hooker
Bush
Willis
Click
Mummau

Always choose joy.

I'll continue to root for Click, but him, Mummau, and Willis are walk-ons. Ultimately they're there to run the scout team and provide emergency depth. Not to diminish their contributions, because everyone on the team puts a hell of a lot into it and are Hokies all the way through, but I don't think the presence of walk-ons would ever dissuade us from going after new recruits. I do think there's a good chance we don't take a qb in the 2019 cycle though. Who's our non-QP recruit?

I want whoever the coaching staff things is best, Fuente has the reputation of a qb Whisperer. Don't care if they had the job before, if someone better comes in and outplays them then they win the starting job. Same rule applies to every other position, this is not pee-wee shane beamer ball where everyone gets a turn. Best man up I say

I can imagine no more rewarding a career. And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worthwhile, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction:
“I served in the United States Navy"

Agreed, best man plays, I think we seen hints of that with the Teller situation last year, Fu takes your attitude into consideration, when deciding if you play or not, and I'm thankful we have a coach that puts the best players on the field regardless of their age, recruits see that too I'm sure.

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

I always go with Hookers.

What was the question again?

This is my school
This is home

I think the real question is, with JJ/HH/QP all there next year, will we be able to move AJ to a different position where we can make some use out of his athleticism? While I know that it's always good to have as many QB options as possible, it seems to me that we are really missing out on having another dynamic playmaker on the field.

why not? I mean it didn't work for Joel Caleb so much, but Bucky, Sam, and Dragon certainly got good playing time at positions other than QB.

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

Yeah, Plenty of good athletes make that switch with success. Bucky is a good example as is Braxton Miller who did so pretty late in his career.

If it does happen, let's just hope it's not a switch to TE. I think this website would crash due to the jokes alone.

AJ's running ability blows my mind, I'd be even willing to move him to RB at this point, granted I know he doesn't have the bulk to sustain that much of a pounding, but the way he muscles for extra yards, leaves me salivating for a power back like that with good speed. I'm with you, I think we need to move his position for sure, especially with Hooker back there and QP/Ellis coming in.

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

So... use him in the same way that the Panthers are using McCaffrey this year?

This is my school
This is home

It's an option, it's like with Farley for instance, they wanted to move him to defense, but once they seen his ability to stretch the field, they realized it was better for him to be on offense to fill that need (which is a major thing we're missing this year); same idea, we need a runner who hits the hole fast, and doesn't go down at first contact (See: Travon McMillian); keep in mind I'm not one of those fans that throws ish at a wall and hopes something sticks, I know RB is a lot more involved than just hitting the hole and shedding off contact, AJ has to be able to pass catch out the back field, pick up the blitz, and engage blockers on any plays that go to a WR/TE, this is why I'd say he's probably still a QB, because you can't teach this stuff during the season, not to mention, he's more valuable at the QB spot than teaching a RB on the fly, but like you said if the offseason shows improvement for Hendon, then I'd definitely say it's an option that should be explored.

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

Or a 6' 4 go up and get it receiver who we can get involved in the running game through those jet sweeps our coaches like to use... don't know if he would have the fundamentals in place as a receiver to do that, but the prospect does seem interesting

If I'm honest, I'm hoping, and maybe expecting?, AJ to move to RB next year when we have better QB depth, and a serious need for a big back. If he can add weight without loosing a step, dear god, he could be Adrian Peterson levels of dangerous.

“I remember Lee Corso's car didn't get out of the parking lot.” -cFB
TKPC #666 ...man that was long wait...

I just dont' know if he'd do that his senior year, especially with the plethora of backs Coach Fu already uses in the backfield; I could be wrong though.

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

My guess is depth chart will go JJ-HH-Bush, but Bush will have his own wild turkey/read-option package whereas Hooker will only play in case of injury or garbage time

I love JJ. I've not been this psyched about a QB since Tyrod. He's going to continue to grow and get better.

Hey I'm right there with you, love JJ, love his decision making for a Freshman and just the intangibles.

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

Exactly. Give him a few more weapons and our offense improves exponentially

JJ has done a great job as a redshirt freshman with limited playmakers around him.

However, I think that Hooker is going to make a run at the starting job. He will be here for his second spring this offseason and will have basically two years off-season workouts to add some size. Not to mention, he has been exposed to the offense during the season.

I think Hooker adds more playmaking ability and a better arm to get the ball downfield.

It is a good problem to have. This is a QB friendly system and I think that helps whoever ends up winning the job.

The key point you spoke about is adding size, seeing how the ACC is getting more and more punishing of a conference, and the speed is starting to really be injected into various teams as well, beyond the standard FSU/Clemson, I think if Hooker can add bulk, and truly learn the system for a second full offseason, I think it'll be a nice little competition in camp, worst case scenario, it'll just make JJ better.

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

The real question should be:

Whichever of the QB's wins the starting job for next season, who around him will be able to make plays?

Is coronavirus over yet?

Savoy, Farley, Hazleton

Those 3 are going to be a 3 headed monster at WR next year.

And don't forget Cole Beck. That kid is just a playmaker on the field.

This is my school
This is home

And don't forget Cole Beck. That kid is just a playmaker on the field.

That is, if he even sees the field as a true freshman.

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

Why would we keep the Heisman frontrunner off the field? That seems silly

This is my school
This is home

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but Lawson transferred.

2022 Season Challenge: Wrasslin'
Previous Challenges: Star Wars (2019), Marvel (2020), Batman (2021)

I honestly don't know if Beck is just a consolation recruit, I hope he works out, but the fact that they were so late in recruiting him, leaves me feeling like they had other targets in mind that went elsewhere, and that they needed to grab a "warm body," I haven't watched much tape of him, but it appears he's undersized, and he reminds me more so of Fox than McCaffrey

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

Saw/have seen both guys in HS. Beck is a huge upgrade over Fox. Just look at their offer lists coming out... not to mention Beck is a National Championship (HS) level track star. No to say he's the next McCaffrey, but he's a HUGE upgrade over Fox (from recruiting standpoint) and I would expect Beck to get an immediate look considering his speed whether it be at RB or the return game.

Fox has done a great job in mop up duty this year and is a great example of hard work paying off, but I don't see Beck as 'just a warm body' coming in at all. Wait 'til Hilgart gets a hold of this kid on campus

Having a conversation with you is like a Martian talking to a Fungo.

.

Bodies by Hilgart will surely help, since you've seen both guys, what do you think separates them? What makes Beck a division I ACC RB in your opinion?

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

A. Speed
B. Speed
C. Vision and elusiveness

Beck is just one of those guys that you make an effort to go see. Then he does what he does and you're like, DAMN, that kid is a player.

Not to say this kid is going to come in and be the be all, end all at RB, but his skill set brings plenty more to the table than Fox, even now, IMO.

Having a conversation with you is like a Martian talking to a Fungo.

.

Beck has the potential to be a David Wilson type runner. Speed for days. I think he'll redshirt because it's a big step going from SWVA high school football to ACC football and he's going to need to get stronger.

to make #'s work, he's almost certainly coming to VT on a track scholarship. so unless he is unstoppable in practice, he'll redshirt in football.

If he's a scholarship athlete on both the football team and track team, he counts as a football scholarship. So it wouldn't really help the numbers out.

"That move was slicker than a peeled onion in a bowl of snot." -Mike Burnop

he could practice with the football team and not count against the 85. if he plays in a game or signs a football loi, he'll definitely count against football

Speakin of redshirting, does Fuente redshirt any of his offensive recruits? Seems like Pimpleton Deiulus and Hezekiah have all had their shirts burned for little to no reason

Well, in Pimp's case, maybe that was so that he wouldn't lose a year of eligibility when he has to sit after he transfers?

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

Ah shit I didn't know love bug was transferring! I think this is new news, makes me think maybe he's transferring because of the year pretty much wasted

Saw/have seen both guys in HS. Beck is a huge upgrade over Fox

Downvote me if you want fellas, but here's the reality:

1. Fox and Beck played against entirely different competition in HS, so whatever you have seen there you can take with a grain of salt. I've seen a lot of kids who look amazing playing A, AA, AAA football (sometimes the best kid on the field every night) here in Va. who do very little in college.

2. Beck is fast, dang fast... But is he D1 football fast? What I mean by that is RMFW didn't have a very fast 40 time, but he was one of the best RBs to come through VT (he was football fast). Beck doesn't look shifty in his film and he isn't playing against very good competition. I'm very happy that he is coming to VT, and I trust that our staff can find ways to get fast kids the football. But count me cautiously optimistic about this kid.

Is coronavirus over yet?

So what is the level that Blacksburg Bruins play at? A, AA, AAA? And what type of competition do they play, cause from what I see they are ranked 8th in Virginia.

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

Salem and Bburg are both 4A, but they have/had common opponents of Christiansburg, William Byrd, Pulaski, Hidden Valley, Henry Co. Oh, and in fact, their schools (Salem/Blacksburg) actually play each other on a pretty consistent basis considering they are in the same district (River Ridge) and Region (D). This year they are on the same side of the State playoff bracket ( http://www.maxpreps.com/tournament/PIbVvKSAEeeT-Oz0u-e-FA/PIbWpaSAEeeT-O... ). So your first argument is factually incorrect and uninformed.

IN FACT.....!!! Beck's Bruins beat Fox's Salem 49-12 on 9/22. So that's a pretty common opponent.

Don't confuse Salem (Va Beach) where Moto went and Salem (just outside of Roanoke) where Fox went. Now those two are indeed entirely different competition.

Like I said, I'm not saying this kid is the be all end all, but compared to Fox, he's an upgrade.

Having a conversation with you is like a Martian talking to a Fungo.

.

But that's where I'm asking the question, when it comes to Virginia High School football is 5A, worse than 4A, that's my assumption at least, is that 1A is the best level of competition?

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

No, other way around. When I was in HS, (2000 Grad) there was A, AA, AAA. Salem and Blacksburg were AA for a LONG, LONG time and were actually in the same district for quite some time. Since then, they have re-categorized the levels creating 6 levels. VA now goes from A-6A with 6A being the highest level.

Having a conversation with you is like a Martian talking to a Fungo.

.

That helps, so how do they classify the levels? Is it based upon talent levels, strength of schedule?

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

By total student enrollment. The wiki page has a solid description of how Virginia used to be classified and how the 2013 re-division was classified.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_High_School_League

Having a conversation with you is like a Martian talking to a Fungo.

.

usually talent levels go up with enrollment so you can assume a 6A school will be better than a 3A school. But this is kind of like assuming that an FBS team is better than an FCS team; usually that's true by virtue of having more money and more scholarship players, but on occasion you'll have an NDSU that punches above its weight class consistently.

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

I'm just trying to have a conversation here

Sorry if my above post was just vague enough for ignorance to be assumed on my end... So let me clarify.

I am aware that Blacksburg is 4A, but this is actually their first year in that classification. And while the two have had some common opponents in years past, the schedules have not been entirely equal.

And I do know, Beck's Bruins (a team that is very good this season) beat Salem, but Fox wasn't involved so I'm not sure how it was "Fox's Salem" that they beat. And if we want to use that as a measuring stick, Salem won the game in 2016 by the score of 57-21.

I certainly haven't confused the two Salem schools... I've been around VHSL football for a minute.

Like I said above, I am cautiously optimistic about Beck, I really hope the kid succeeds at VT. But there really isn't any evidence, outside of the "I saw them play in HS", that one is an upgrade to the other in this scenario. Especially when the other kid has been in the program for a couple of years.

That was my only point.

Is coronavirus over yet?

I gotta think with Blacksburg being ranked 8th in Virginia, there is some degree of strength of schedule that is taken into consideration

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

Ehhh... Blacksburg is very good this season, no question. But those rankings are very sketchy.

Is coronavirus over yet?

Okay...
Your argument was that they don't play similar competition, but considering both their schools have been in the same district/region for a heck of a long time, that portion of your argument holds no water. Salem got reclassified too and over the last 5 yrs a lot has changed in that regard, but both their schools have been a common opponent of each other and play nearly the same schools year in year out and have done so 20+ years... (other than non-district opponents).
So yea, they do play a few non-common (non-district) opponents during the regular season, but otherwise, they play the exact same schools...So in what way do they play "entirely different competition"?

I'm just going by the eyeball test from what I have seen from them in HS and the very small sample size of Fox in less than 40 collegiate carries to date. Considering Fox was essentially an invited walk on and Beck is a legit college prospect in comparison to their offer sheets coming out of HS... I'll take Beck any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

And like I said, several times, I'm not saying Beck is going to be a superstar, my view of the two of them, from what I have witnessed, is that Beck brings far more to the table than Fox.

Having a conversation with you is like a Martian talking to a Fungo.

.

Seems about the same size as Braxton Berrios to me.

VT Class of '12 (MSE), MVBone, Go Hokies!

I think we need to pump the brakes on Farley. The kid is a hell of an athlete, but the knee injury really hurt his development. He has only had 1 week of practice as a WR and had coaches lining him up during the spring game so he knew where to go.

Fall camp this past year and this actual season would have been huge for his development. Now he is going to be learning this spring (if he is good to go), summer workouts, and fall camp.

I am sure that he is sitting in the WR meetings (I would at least hope so), but I am really not sure what to expect from him next season. I have a feeling that Patterson could put up bigger numbers than Farley.

Agreed, the best development is on the field development, any mentions of Farley are pipe dream hopes for sure.

Honestly all I want is a down the field, jump ball threat, instead of possession across the middle/slant receivers. Hoping we can find one either currently on the team, or coming in 2018.

Any ideas of who might fill this role? Clearly Farley is one, who else has that down the field/jump ball type skillsets that we either have on the team or recruiting right now?

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

It sounds like Hazleton is the real deal.

Haven't heard much about him, will scour the internet for some articles, I know he came from Ball State, but yeah haven't seen him on the field much, so guess I lost track of him.

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

He can't play because he is a transfer. Wiggins has said that he wishes he could play this year because he would help a lot.

Oh ok, well hopefully he's the deep threat we need, wish 247 listed 40 times and stuff, that would be so helpful to gauge what type of skillset the player has.

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

Everything I've read about him from people that have seen him in practice is that he's absolutely the real deal. Big body, runs good routes, and catches pretty much everything thrown his way. We really could have used him this year.

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This is home

Alum, if you can post some links that you've run across, that would be super helpful for sure, I'm surprised I haven't heard much about this kid, didn't even realize he could practice with the team, since he has to sit out a year. So are these stories saying he's got downfield speed? Because maybe I should be hedging my bets more on him than Caleb for that individual who will take the top off the defense.

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

If I can find something, I'll link for ya. I seem to remember that french has said more than once that the kid is going to be awesome when he's able to suit up on gameday.

This is my school
This is home

He looked impressive in some of the instagram and snapchat videos that were posted during camp. I'd think "damn, 89 looks good. Who is that?". Look at the roster and see Hazleton and think "damn, this dude can't play this year"

Man the kid looks legit, even at Ball State as a freshman he had a pretty big build. And it looks like he's shifty with yards after the catch, and he controls his body really well in the air when high pointing a ball. Just didn't get to see much straight line speed from that video. Thanks for sharing though, hopefully he's the downfield threat we need as well.

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

Hazelton crushed the MAC as a true freshman at Ball State.
He goes up and gets the ball on fades, has great body control on sideline catches, gets separation on underneath routes, can make the first defender miss for some YAC

51 catches
505 yards
9.9 y/c
4 TD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HbqyNDl9SE

Homie, this is an internet, VT football, discussion forum. Don't let anyone tell you what you can and can't discuss right now. If they don't like it, they certainly do not have to comment. That's the beauty of free-will.

Exactly my stance bro, I chalk up the "those comments" to fandom, respect them, and move on; I've been a "stalker" on this site for far too long not to know what goes on and how best to respond (or not respond) to it.

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

The more interesting question for QP is whether he goes full on tuxedo for the Senior Prom, or does he go nice, modern suit with a skinny tie that seems to be the rage these days.

Leonard. Duh.

I know I'm a little late to the thread, I needed a break from my Hokie obsession after the Miami defeat. I'll be honest, when I read the title of this post I rolled my eyes and thought "here come the pitchforks and craziness" but I really appreciate how you framed the discussion in the OP.

Here are my thoughts:
I think JJ is a very good QB. I have been very impressed with his poise, decision making, and accuracy on short and intermediate routes. His timing and accuracy on deep routes is a little off (I never thought I would say this after watching Evans overthrow at least one deep route a game last year, but I kind of want to see JJ overthrow a receiver just once) though I think that can improve with experience. The one thing I don't see improving is his quickness/escapability.

So in a vacuum, I think JJ can be a really good QB. The biggest question in my mind is in our system, with our players, can he get us over the hump? It seems like our OL recruiting is still slow, so I don't see that improving drastically in the next 3 years while JJ is still eligible. As far as the RB position goes, it seems like our biggest hope in landing a dynamic RB is with Ford, but IF we land him he would only get here as a Freshman for JJ's rJr year. With those two things in mind, it seems like having a more mobile QB would be a huge plus to our offense.

For those reasons, I have been wondering if Hooker would beat out JJ in next Spring's competition. I think it will depend on Hooker's accuracy and decision making. If spending a year watching the offense and practicing can get Hooker up to a comparable level in those two areas, I think his upside in running would earn him the job, but those are big ifs because I think JJ really excels in those two categories.

As far as QP is concerned, I am really excited about him and hope he gets the keys to the offense at some point, though I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't until his rJr or rSr year. But in all of his quotes that I've read he seems to have a great perspective on coming in and learning the system and staying for his whole career. I just hope we get more than one year with him as a starter (which may require him beating out a Sr Hooker unless something else like transfers, injuries, early graduations happens).

Well thanks for giving the thread a chance, I certainly wanted to be sure to phrase it in a way where I showed my support for him still, and the team as a whole.

Like you said the OL/RB/Skill Players are the major linchpin to this whole discussion. I put it in that order for a reason, I think JJ is like any QB, he needs that time to scan his options and to get the ball in the hands of the best option. There have been instances where he missed a wide open receiver because he didn't have time, or just because he's a freshman honestly. But you can't deny more time in the pocket is going to help him against the stiffest competition.

My biggest concern though that I feel like already puts JJ as the frontrunner for the starting QB position next year, is the fact that we play FSU game one next season, and I don't see Fuente giving the keys to Hooker when he has a starter that already showed he can succeed in the system. I hope I'm wrong though on that front.

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

I think Hooker beats out JJ next year. I like JJ but he can't throw a deep ball and he isn't as athletic as Hooker. QP will definitely redshirt.

Matty Ballgame

No shade thrown to Josh. I am really impressed with the poise the kid has. Displays brass balls as well definitely something you can't teach. With that said I believe Hendon beats out Josh. Hooker ran a offense very similar to what Fuente and Cornelsen runs.

Hokie Love!

Ok, so I'm not trying to get this thread back up an running because I'm jumping to conclusions. I think the last two games (and the Clemson game) show we aren't ready for national relevance just yet. I think part of it is personnel, and I think part of it is QB play, but this loss to GT I SOLELY PUT ON THE PLAYCALLING.

I love JJ, and I think his body language today showed he just didn't have it, I don't know if it was the success that AJ was having or what, but he seemed off today. Look at the miracle catch that should've been an interception, that's a throw that I haven't seen JJ make, and it was just not his day.

But the play calling did him absolutely no favors. 3rd and 1 and you go for a 6-7 yard sideline throw? 4th and 1 and you go for what looked like a down the middle seam route (didn't watch the full replay, just turned the TV off after that throw), I'm baffled. I feel like the coaching staff really needs to look inwardly and ask themselves if they are putting the team in a position to succeed. I was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and chalk the Miami/Clemson loss up to a lack of speed and athleticism, and thus the coaches called plays not to lose rather than to win. But after watching this game, I feel like they have little to no confidence in the fight in their players, and in turn they are grasping for straws when the ish hits the fan. TWO 2 point conversion failures, instead of just taking the points that are there. The percentages are in favor of the extra point (the coaches didn't play percentages the entire freaking game), and the defense was doing all they could to hold them up until that point. I would talk about the defense, and the lack of accounting for the pass plays, but I want to keep this thread strictly in the realm of the offense.

After what I seem from Bush today, I'm in favor of situational moments that he can come in the game and provide a spark. Like that 3rd and 1, and 4th and 1. I still have faith in JJ as a passer, but right now with the personnel we have, we have to have the threat of the running QB. I have an all new respect for Jerod Evans, Hodges, and Ford after the way the last few games have gone. They masked a lot of deficiencies in play calling for sure.

It's time to go back to the drawing board, I can't even think about getting the recruits we need to get us over the top. All I can think about is our coaching staff calling plays like a Power 5 school rather than a G5 school. This might be a longer process of rebuilding than I thought, and that rebuilding might have to start with the coaching staff (no I'm not talking about firings, just saying from a scheme perspective). Figuring out who will be our QB next year is the furthest thing from my mind. But this game told me that it might HAVE to be Hooker, because the personnel has forced our hand, and the play calling has as well. #VentingComplete

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

I know there were some plays today that were oddly called, but I had to come back to this thread after reading some of the others.

I honestly would not be surprised to see a QB shake up next year. I think it's a wide open battle.

I also still stick with my thought that QP is chosen by Fuente. So I think he has a bit of a leg up rather than starting from the complete bottom.

Previously LowBrau.

Yeah was hoping for some more thoughts after yesterday, guessing everyone is trying to not jump to conclusions and bail on JJ, I applaud not being a prisoner of the moment. I remember you saying QP was a CJF guy, was Hooker a Beamer guy? Don't recall if CJF recruited him.

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

Hooker is a CJF guy.

JJ was one of, if not the first, visit CJF made to keep Beamer commits.

Always choose joy.

Oh it was a Beamer commit, but CJF made sure he stuck around, so in a way QP is the first recruit that he originally went for. I think this is a dynamic that a lot of people forget about, CJF has only had about 1.5 cycles of recruiting. I'm hoping that having a full compliment of his guys will yield better results. Same goes for Vice, I hoping him having his type of OL will yield better results.

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

Hooker was one of fuente's first sought out recruits. I truly believe Hooker will be the starter next yr.

Hokie Love!

While I agree the competition will probably open, I doubt QP gets that chance. It is rare that you ever see a true freshman quarterback play like a starter. Tyrod Taylor gave the offense a dimension it didn't have back in 2007 with his scrambling, but, other than the FSU game that same season, he didn't have a game where he lit the world on fire with his arm until 2009. Some of that is because of a bad offensive line (which is the case this season and probably will be next season as well), lack of experience at receiver in 2008 (our receivers will be more experienced next season than the receivers were in 2008 thankfully), splitting time with Sean Glennon (which I agreed with), and piss-poor playcalling (Cornelson is better than Stinespring). What 2007 and 2008 both had, though, were serviceable running games. Branden Ore got better as the season went along in 2007, and Darren Evans had the best season of a freshman running back at VT up to that point in 2008. Our running game has been complete shit this season and probably won't be much better next season.

With that being said for QP, I do think that the competition should be open again next season. Jackson is a smart player and can make some tough throws, but the guy is just so slow. For this offense to go, you need productivity on the ground. I don't think the offensive line and running backs will ever progress that much with Vice and Burden, respectively, coaching them. I'm not sure what dimension Ryan Willis brings to the table on the ground, but he didn't run a whole lot in high school. Hendon Hooker on the other hand... He ran a lot in high school. There was a reason he was a 4-star recruit out of high school. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see him starting next season.

Marshall University graduate.
Virginia Tech fanatic.
Formerly known as JWillHokieAlum.

Speed was definitely noticeable. Even the pre snap clap. When AJ was in there I noticed immediately that the clap was so much faster. Then he ran so much faster as well. I got excited and was hoping he was going to get a chance to finish the drive.

Previously LowBrau.

I like JJ a lot, and I think he has a really high upside and could be a great pocket presence IF the offense line improves.

I see it being a toss up next year, and that's only because I don't think Hooker is as good as a passer, but can definitely bring more to the run game than JJ.

It may depend on how the offensive line looks next year, more than anything else.

Have you seen Hooker throw? If Hooker shows improvement with placement and reading d faster. He will be our guy.

Hokie Love!

Yea that's what I've heard - I've only seen some of the highlights from the spring game. At the moment though (based on what I've seen) I'd say JJ is a more polished passer. That can definitely change and certainly may have while Hooker was redshirting.

Honestly, I think the one thing I'm getting from this thread is that we will have an embarrassment of riches at the QB position from 2018 on and the fact that this kind of post is being made is a testament to Fuente's work recruiting QB's. Much better than worrying about what would happen if QB1 got hurt and we need to put in Leal, JuJu Clayton, etc.

Though I really like JJ at QB, I really hope we can get a more mobile QB running this offense. RPO's seem like they would work better if we had a QB that can tuck and run it as an added threat, and can make something out of a broken play. No offense to JJ, but he seems to be more of a pocket passer, and his running ability may not be the same as HH or QP. No matter who Fuente gives the nod to, I'm definitely okay with them because Fuente trusts them enough to be the QB on the field.

So now that it's the end of the season, I think this thread could use some more thoughts, especially after this game. I think JJ was out of rhythm with a lot of youthful receivers tonight. A lot of poorly thrown balls. Then there were some passes that I believe ended up right where they were supposed to be, but the receiver ran the route incorrectly. With all of that said though, JJ showed me that with skill position players with speed he can do some things, but I can't help but feeling like Hooker is better suited for this offense. I'm really looking forward to Spring practice to see how he has developed in the film room as well as physically.

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

I think JJ was out of rhythm with a lot of youthful receivers tonight. A lot of poorly thrown balls.

I hardly think that was specific to tonight. He's not been good since we started ACC play. He's fine, but clearly not going to get us competing for a Conference, or even Division title.

Wish him the best, but it's time to move on to HH and never look back.

I agree, I just don't think he can make all the throws, but at the same time I wonder how much of it is a byproduct of a underperforming offensive line and a lack of skill position players. A great athlete can counter those circumstances, which is why I think HH is needed next year. Especially opening against a speedy defense like FSU in Tallahassee.

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

I want Jackson. He has a year in the offense and now more experienced players at the skilled positions. One of the keys to this offense is the H-Back and Keane is a Freshman.

I don't know if another year will yield better results, we need speed at the QB position, and we need someone who can make all the throws, I hope that's HH, because this team is too talented to wait on QP to accustomed to the playbook and speed of the college game. I love JJ, but I just don't think he can get it done, his ACC play showed that.

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

Jerod Evans was not fast and neither was Paxton Lynch. This offense is not supposed to be totally reliant on the QB. If Jackson has Ford, Hodges and Rogers we're in the ACCCG again this year.

I am almost certain Hooker transfers. The chances of him starting are slim and Patterson is right on his heels. He'll want to start for more than one year and that is not likely at this point.

Jerod Evans and Paxton Lynch had much stronger arms than JJ. Like not even close.

Your second paragraph is awesome. HH is our starter next year. Patterson isn't close to taking snaps.

What is the Hooker is defintiely transferring talk? Is he not going to have to beat out a guy to get playing time at another school?

Leonard. Duh.

I don't see HH sticking around with Patterson behind him. It's kind of like Dwayne Lawson transferring. Fuente brought in Evans and Jackson Shows up. He pretty much knows Evans starts and he's got Jackson breathing down his neck. It's really hard to have a bunch of QB's that are just one year apart.

It's no sure thing QP will ever beat out HH. HH is also 6'4", and was 247's #11 dual threat qb when he came out. QP is their #13. I know the Elite 11 press is awesome for QP, but he still clearly has a lot to learn, as he was much more of a rushing qb in high school than a passer. HH is much more game ready when it comes to running and passing.

It's impossible at this moment to speculate one would transfer.

You should probably let QP get at least one college practice under his belt before you deem him the starting QB for 2019. Yes, he has the potential to be great, but that doesn't always transfer to an actual product on the field.

HH should feel comfortable in his position to get another look as the starter. I expect there to be an open competition again among all of the QBs on the depth chart this spring.

I don't expect QP to start in 2019. More like 2020.

Fuente's offense doesn't need a fast QB, but it does need a QB who has a quick burst and can at least make the DE miss. JJ is fast but it takes him a while to get up to speed and that's not enough against top DE's.

It (the offense) isn't supposed to be fully reliant on the QB run but it absolutely needs it to succeed. Look back at French's video review on the difference in the way the DE's play when JJ is in the game vs. AJ Bush. It opens up so much on the inside runs. JJ is a Loeffler recruited QB, the rest we have are Feunte recruited QB.

I don't see why QP and HH can't get along well together. I've seen HH in his pads during warmups and the guy looks the real deal. Obviously remains to be seen if he can win the position, but I have a feeling if he has a good rFr year and grows on that his rSr year he could consider the draft then or after his rJr year. If QP redshirts he is a rSr when he starts at the earliest with three years eligibility....two years eligibility at the latest. That is the ideal QB rotation in my opinion. Trying to rely on freshman and red shirt freshman is a recipe for shaky QB play which is what we have had this year.

I don't hate having Jackson back with experience next fall, but if the competition points towards Hooker in spring ball, I'm going to be the last person to stand up and object to it. JJ was off target multiple times tonight, rushed through a handful of reads (see: wide open post in the second quarter), overthrew a sure TD, and he was not wholly innocent on that goal line fumble.

I've heard the 'he's a freshman' thing and I understand, to an extent, that he's a young guy and has tremendous upside/room for growth. BUT, he had 12 games under his belt prior to tonight, so I'm not willing to accept these mistakes can be attributed solely to a lack of experience. I'm afraid his inability to place balls on target tonight might be evidence that he's not as good as we thought.

Don't get me wrong here, I love the kid. He's tougher than a $2 steak and has unparalleled heart and willpower, but maybe, just maybe, he's not the right pick for QB1. I'll happily eat crow come April. Regardless, we're going to win a bunch of football games next year.

I would root for the Russians before I would root for Virginia.

I've heard the 'he's a freshman' thing and I understand, to an extent, that he's a young guy and has tremendous upside/room for growth. BUT, he had 12 games under his belt prior to tonight, so I'm not willing to accept these mistakes can be attributed solely to a lack of experience. I'm afraid his inability to place balls on target tonight might be evidence that he's not as good as we thought.

He's a much better passer than freshman Tyrod. He's also getting no help from his center or receivers.

Coaches will play the best QB that they think gives them the best chance to win. This season, it was JJ. Next season, it might be hooker, but I'd wager it's JJ.

Twitter me

I'm not sure how you can definitively say he is a better passer than Tyrod. I'm thinking of the throw to Murphy that was about 5 yards over thrown. Or the inside screen that was so overthrown it was almost a pick-6.

To me JJ is a good game manager but he is just too cerebral. Everyone praises his intelligence that comes from having a coach for a father. But when I watch him I feel like I can literally see him thinking and it's just too slow. Another thing to consider is JJ was recruited by Beamer & Co. JRod, HH, QP are all recruited by Fuente. Combine that with the fact that HH really challenged for the position before being red shirted would lead me to believe HH is next year's QB--if I was forced to make a guess.

Gazing into my crystal ball, in three years time I see HH or QP being the QB with JJ transferring from the program. I think if QP wins out over HH eventually then you may see HH transfer but if HH does really well I think we could retain QP since HH would likely go to the draft early and give QP 1-2 full seasons. This would be my ideal scenario. JJ is not a Feunte-type QB in my opinion

Everyone keeps comparing JJ to QBs who are not freshman.

I'm not sure how you can definitively say he is a better passer than Tyrod.

Definitely better than Freshman Tyrod. I loved Tyrod to death, but he struggled to complete anything as a freshman.

so the same then?

twitter @smithey_daniel
head scout BSP scouting specializing in north florida/ southern GA highschool football scouting

Tt was quite inconsistent as a freshman. In fact jj had a better freshman year than tt just based off watching. That said, tt also showed flashes of game-changing brilliance as a freshman that jj clearly does not possess.

"I play real sports, not trying to be the best at exercising..." - KP

Game changing brilliance was our entire gameplay. Ever since Michael Vick we gave up on fielding a real plan and hoped for things to break down.

Hooker and QP have way higher ceilings. But there is no way in hell we go into FSU with a first time starter unless someone just blows Jackson away all spring and fall camp. Not to say it isn't possible that Hooker can do that, but it's a far stretch. QP will shirt and learn. He's a really smart guy and I think will benefit from learning and marinading a few years.

But there is no way in hell we go into FSU with a first time starter

Disagree
FSU isn't Alabama
HH will have been on campus for >1.5 years by the start of next season. He's not fresh out of high school.

Again, I wouldn't be shocked if Hooker beats out Jackson. I just think it's unlikely.

Imagine that Hendon Hooker was named the starter instead of redshirting after the spring game.

Who here believes that Hooker, after a year of being the starting quarterback and taking 1st string reps, isn't as good as Josh Jackson was today?

Great question! I'm not sure we would be 9-4, but I do believe we would be way more dynamic of an offense speed wise. Fuente put a premium on turnovers though and tonight showed why. I'll trust coach.

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

I'll trust coach.

Unless he picks JJ. Amirite?

No I trust him no matter what of HH isn't ready I trust coach sees that in practice.

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

I'm not sure I believe myself 😂

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

the 9-4 would have happened regardless. I think just a different route to get there. we would have lost to WVU but beat GT or OKST the other 2 games were a loss with any freshman QB other than mike vick.

twitter @smithey_daniel
head scout BSP scouting specializing in north florida/ southern GA highschool football scouting

Does HH play thru the injuries like JJ did?

I have no idea. Does anybody? HH could very well be the next Vick or an athletic turnover machine. We will find out in '18.

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K

I think we can rest assured that HH isn't the next Vick. If he was, we'd know it already. Vick was no secret, especially after his redshirt year.

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

Depends on Henden who we've only really seen in the spring game. Jackson had a solid year for a r-Freshman, he made a few mistakes but that's expected and he should be better for it.

Hooker adds an extra dimension by being an excellent runner but why start him completely green when you still have a young but experienced Jackson that can win us 10-11 games?

I think Fuente needs a QB with a couple of years on the field so I agree with the sentiment. Fuente was really hoping to have Evans back this year. If you look at QB's under Fuente they really improve year after year and it seems he likes to keep one starting for a while. His patterns as a coach suggest that if Jackson continues to develop he'll continue to start. At this point I think Jackson has to get careless with the ball in spring and summer to lose the job. I think as fans we tend think the next star is sitting on the bench under the coaches noses and even if he was coaches tend to like consistency, especially Fuente. Fuente is all about predictable outcomes. Jackson, for a f-FR, was pretty predictable. Even if HH proves to be electric and dynamic, if he isn't consistent, he isn't going to start.

think as fans we tend think the next star is sitting on the bench under the coaches noses and even if he was coaches tend to like consistency, especially Fuente. Fuente is all about predictable outcomes. Jackson, for a f-FR, was pretty predictable. Even if HH proves to be electric and dynamic, if he isn't consistent, he isn't going to start.

I don't know why this post didn't get more love. It is by far the most correct answer here. Everyone else is talking about schemes and ideal QB and such but none of that determines who starts. Fuente's philosophy determines who starts. How many times he preached consistency or used the phrase "expected outcome"? Fuente isn't going to be dazzled by some plays a higher upside QB can make. If HH is consistent, that's what matters most.

do you mean the bench or the field? this is the classic "experience required" when you're trying to get your first job.

twitter @smithey_daniel
head scout BSP scouting specializing in north florida/ southern GA highschool football scouting

Justin Fuente and Cornelson both.

You don't know that.

We know that Justin Fuente and Cornelsen believed that JJ gave them the best shot early in the year. It is completely possible, I would argue even likely, that they thought Hooker would be a better player than JJ after a full season of reps but didn't think he could win enough games early to be in position to win the ACC.

I would argue even likely

Based on what exactly? His spring game footage? I mean, this whole Hooker thing is nonsense until proven otherwise. The coaches redshirted him for a reason.

Based on what

A basic understanding of Fuente's scheme and how an exceptionally talented athlete at Quarterback makes it far more difficult to defend.

Ah yes the ole "basic understanding" argument. As opposed to the coaches who also lack this basic understanding. Well played.

As opposed to the coaches who also lack this basic understanding.

I honestly can't follow your argument.

I've already said that JJ was a better choice at the beginning of the year. I've also said that if Hooker had been chosen, by the end of the year I think it's likely the offense would be more productive than it is today. What do you disagree with?

You think its likely that Hooker would have been more productive. I asked what you based that on. You said basic understanding of Fuente's offense. I'm reminding you that Hooker lost in a competition to JJ and that you still have no argument as to why you think a true freshman would have been better than JJ. You are grasping at HUDL videos against 16 year olds and a spring game highlight.

I'm reminding you that Hooker lost in a competition to JJ

A completely unnecessary reminder considering I've already stated I thought JJ should have won at the beginning of the year. It has nothing to do with the discussion of who would be the more productive quarterback at the end of the year but you keep saying it. Confusing.

I asked what you based that on. You said basic understanding of Fuente's offense...You are grasping at HUDL videos against 16 year olds and a spring game highlight.

I don't know what other criteria I could possibly base that opinion on. The only two things to consider for that opinion is

1) What does Fuente's scheme ask of his quarterback

2) Which quarterback has the better physical gifts for that position

This is a sports discussion, not a peer reviewed journal on the newest cancer treatment. If you demand scientific proof for every opinion uttered here you are going to be disappointed quite a bit. Also, I was at the spring game. I watched every snap of the game as well as warm ups. It was blatantly obvious that Hooker was the more physically gifted of the two.

I've outlined pretty specifically my viewpoints, unless you have something more to add I'm just going to ignore any remaining shots you take

Ignore away. But QB is more than just about athleticism. Or else, and back to my original point, Fuente and Cornelson would have played a more athletic QB. Hooker isn't the only athletic QB. Bush didn't play a snap, and is more athletic than either of them. Clearly they think JJ is the best QB on the roster. Their opinion is the one I care about.

ACowne63, did you go to the Spring Game? Of course QB is more than just athleticism but the Manning analogy is atrocious. Fuente's system is completely different, I bet you could count on one hand how many RPO's Peyton Manning did in his entire career.

A "basic understanding" of CornFu's scheme is one that relies on the RPO and designed QB runs. A QB with more athleticism prevents teams from adding an extra defender to the box (as French has mentioned multiple times this year) to account for the QB which in turn hurts our play action game. CornFu picked Jackson at the beginning of the year because he produced more "predictable outcomes" which they always preach. Mason is saying that even though Jackson was the man for the job to start the season, his performance throughout the year definitely leaves a lot to be desired in terms of athleticism and making the defense honest.

I think Hooker could have grasped the offense as the year went on and could be in a position to take over the starting job. "Could" is the primary word though, Jackson could just as much progress and keep the starting gig. But you have to be certifiably insane to say that Jackson has a higher ceiling than Hooker, based on pure athleticism and throwing ability.

Thanks for being rational in your response, some people just want to pick a fight for sure. I'd like to keep this thread civil.

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

1. Yes I went to the spring game, haven't missed one in years.
2. The Manning comparison wasn't me.
3. The "basic understanding" and general tone was condescending and quite honestly I don't value Mason's knowledge anymore than anyone else's here.

So I ask you. If athleticism was so crucial to Fuente's system he would have installed more packages for Bush in the month since our last game, no? Athleticism is great, but Jackson is no less athletic than Dalton or Lynch. Both of whom Fuente had used to monumental success. Speculation is great, one of the many reasons I love threads like these. But the complete devaluation of what JJ has done this year compared to a player who hasn't taken a snap is ridiculous. All of that done with an equally young receiving corps and running back group. But Hooker had a good spring game, so that means more than any non-acc game I guess.

I'm glad someone else noticed the choices made with both Dalton and Lynch. Both were multiyear starters and neither had as a good a year as Jackson their first year starting (both there more INTS than TDs). There's no doubt there were guys behind them that were probably more athletic. It's one thing to take snaps in the spring in a no contact game and a completely other thing to get leveled by an ACC line backer. Just ask AJ Bush. Even Bush's athleticism couldn't compensate for his inability to get out of his own head. He looked great in garbage time earlier in the year but completely fall apart when put to the test. I'm not saying that happens to Hooker but given it happened to Bush it's possible.

Also I think someone mentioned an RPO earlier. The any RPO resulted in a pass is an indication that the optioned defender bit and played like it was a run. That means they did in fact account for JJ and behaved as if he was going to run. JJ isn't the only reason you would not run the RPO. Your offensive lineman factor into it. We got called a few times for an ineligible receiver down field (in fact one time in the bowl game). Depending on your game plan and your margin of error you may decided not to use the RPO as much because you don't feel like losing 5 yards is going to work. With our game plan every yard counted.

I don't see the comparison with Dalton or Lynch. But you guys have your opinions and you feel like we are devaluing JJ when all we're saying is we are looking forward to the competition next spring. So like Mason I'm checking out, don't see the need in beating a dead horse. Gotta love opinion websites, everyone's allowed to have one. :D

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

Yeah I need to checkout as well. I am excited for an open competition and while I dont think Jackson has a high ceiling, I would love to be proven wrong. What I've seen so far from Hooker (limited, I know) has been encouraging combined with the knowledge that Fuente handpicked him out of all QB's in his class, leads me to believe he will have a bright future in Blacksburg.

Being on the west coast now, I hate that I can't be at the spring game to see what you saw. Hoping I can find a televised option this spring. Because I really haven't seen HH other than HS videos. But I totally agree with your argument a more physically athletic QB will always perform better in this offense. That goes for any spread/RPO offense.

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

But I totally agree with your argument a more physically athletic QB will always perform better in this offense. That goes for any spread/RPO offense.

Why didn't Bush start then

I think that reason is also because you deflect anytime someone doesn't agree with you.

What is he supposed to do then? Agree with you? Not everyone has to agree on everything. This was so annoying to read through.

"What are you going to do, stab me? - Quote from Man Stabbed

Idc that he doesn't agree. I just can't stand hypocrisy. His first response started with "you don't know that" despite the proof being the opposite, (the coaches have picked a less athletic QB at every junction this season) then proceeds to double down on his opinion without giving evidence and saying that we don't understand his take. If he had reasoning besides feelings, I would have been more agreeable in my disagreeing.

Notice I stated a physically athletic QB...in a spread/RPO offense, both of which require the skill to pass. We all know Bush's biggest knock was that he wasn't as gifted at reading defenses to pass effectively. We also know he wasn't as gifted at protecting the ball, per Fuente's comments time and time again before the start of the season.

To rebuttal with a one sided claim is why this conversation has gone off the rails as is. Rhetorical questions don't help much, when you're fully aware that, that wasn't the sole point I was trying to make.

We are all pretty football smart on this site (thanks to French's work) to know that a athletic running threat QB matched with a QB that is capable of protecting the ball and moving it down field is the best for this offense. We probably could all agree too that JJ doesn't possess all of those attributes. Lastly, we could probably agree that HH hopefully can have all these attributes, but without the in game reps and 1st team reps we won't know till the end of spring practice. My hope is that this redshirt year has offered him the opportunity to catch up on the QB aspects to match with what we already know he has athletically.

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

Dalton and Lynch were exceptional athletes?

Do you think they would have been more or less productive if they had Hooker's athleticism?

That's a useless point. Peyton Manning would have been better if he had Vicks athleticism too. But your assertion that "a basic understanding" Fuentes scheme shows that he requires it for the offense to succeed has no basis and has shown to be the opposite. Yes building a perfect QB in a lab would include exceptional athleticism, but that clearly isn't what Fuente values most.

your assertion that "a basic understanding" Fuentes scheme shows that he requires it for the offense to succeed

I'm not going to argue with someone who doesn't understand the point I was making.

A basic understanding of Fuente's scheme and how an exceptionally talented athlete at Quarterback makes it far more difficult to defend.

Name an offensive scheme that an exceptionally talented athlete at Quarterback doesn't make more difficult to defend.

Exactly. The more talented athlete is more difficult to defend, in almost every scenario.

Now the next step is realizing some schemes make defending mobile quarterbacks even harder. For example, is it harder to defend a mobile quarterback in Paul Johnson's scheme or Bret Bielema's? Obviously Paul Johnson's. Same with Fuente, his scheme highlights a quarterback's mobility and uses it to both pick up yardage as well as open up rushing lanes for other backs. I go into much more detail about this here

Except, again, that is clearly not what Fuente values most, as evidenced by his repeated QB selections. You're under the assumption that the increased athleticism comes with maintained accuracy and quick release. That isn't an assumption you can make.

You're under the assumption that the increased athleticism comes with maintained accuracy and quick release.

Let's see. You agreed that JJ should have won the spring competition, but argue that HH would have outperformed him (reason: basic athleticism).

Following your logic, shouldn't Stroman have been given the keys in the spring? He obviously would have outperformed all of the above, because of his superior athleticism.

I think Mason's point is that at the beginning of the season JJ was the best option but for whatever reasons (all of which are speculative) he has regressed. If HH had started from the beginning and progressed as is the normal expectation for a player, he would have already surpassed JJ's level of play in yesterday's game.

He is not saying the coaches should have started HH. He is not saying we would have had a better season with HH. Obviously the coaches weren't going to burn his red shirt this year period.

I'm becoming increasingly frustrated by the lack of respect shown to fellow hokies on the boards. Why does everyone have to be a jerk to each other? The level of snark on TKP these days is sad. Showing the same respect online that you would in a face to face conversation would eliminate 90% of all the pointless subthreads on here.

THIS....I totally agree CFA, we are all alum's and family here, and the argumentative banter back and forth is something you'd expect of Le Sabre, not here. I joined this forum about a month ago, and I'm just astonished by the jerk moves (PC police) and pettiness (spelling/grammatical police) at times by certain people (no names, and no I'm not talking about anyone specific in this thread). We are all family here, and we should all be able to do what the world clearly can't do right now very well, and that's tolerate opposing views. Debates that take place with the motives of persuading the other person to your side isn't a healthy debate, it's an argument. And like Mason, I'm honestly not going to get involved in those on this site. I appreciate all my peers here because they are all fellow Hokies. As much as we want to joke and say "we're not better than that" WE ARE.

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

No I get it. You're very smart. You figured out more athleticism > less athleticism.

I'll give you a dollar if you don't have to get the last word in on this subthread.

"What are you going to do, stab me? - Quote from Man Stabbed

Well played, sir.

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

It is completely possible, I would argue even likely, that they thought Hooker would be a better player than JJ after a full season of reps but didn't think he could win enough games early to be in position to win the ACC.

The only reason anyone would say this is because of Hooker's measurables. How is his football IQ and how quickly does he learn? Would he be able to learn from his mistakes each week? How is his work ethic - does he put in extra hours? Is he mature enough to handle his first semester of college classes and deal with the pressure of being the starting quarterback at a major college college football program?

Think about the alternative ending to the scenario you mentioned above - coaches start Hooker because they think he'll be a better QB in 2 seasons than JJ would be. But he can't balance the football and class, becomes ineligible and has to transfer to JUCO and/or take a year off. Not a good idea.

I think you also risk losing the locker room by not starting the players who give you the best chance to win this game.

TL;DR - you play the players who give you the best chance to win NOW.

Twitter me

you play the players who give you the best chance to win NOW.

I agree with this, I think you misunderstand my point.

I'm not saying the coaches should have started Hooker all year. Fuente did the right thing by starting JJ, because he couldn't afford to put a .500 team on the field. He needed on the field success to drive the necessary recruitting wins to make the team a playoff contender in the future. JJ was good enough to win the games needed to secure our current recruiting class.

But, in a discussion about who should start next year, it's important to factor in how the first string reps will affect Hendon Hooker's development. Next year's team will have more offensive talent than this year's team, IMO. This additional talent should provide enough playmaking support to allow Fuente to start a project at QB without risking an entire season.

TL;DR - JJ was the right choice this year because Hooker was too risky. Next year Hooker could be the right choice because the offensive talent makes the risk lower and the reward greater.

Exactly! This whole thread was intended to spark discussion about who would be best under center next season. To use arguments that revolve around knowing what JJ can provide this offense because of this season, is like me arguing that if Jerod stayed in town, he should've won the job this year too because we seen the on the field product. We are clearly staring opinions off of what we believe the player could contribute on the field. Your argument is going to be one sided if all you're willing to point to is, "well look what JJ did this year." This approach stifles the opportunity for a good discussion and is a pointless argument to have. Kudos to you Mason for seeing that and not wasting thread space with a pointless back and forth, IMO.

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

Gimme JJ. This man's a leader wise beyond his years.

VB born, class of '14

Can't believe portions of the fan base on social media right now. Calling out kids, talking about firing Fuente and Corneslon. Talking about pulling their Hokie Club donations.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Fucking embarrassing.

You put in zero hours as a fan. They work their ass off.

Shut up.

Shit is unreal, man. I'm not even upset after that loss, I think we're headed in the right direction

Agreed. I was upset about the GT loss and not happy about how we looked against Delaware and ODU. We had just lost Nijman against Miami and that makes a HUGE difference. I would have loved to win this game and it was totally possible. To be perfectly honest I think it's awesome we put up more yards than OSU. That's crazy. There are literally three plays that turn this thing around.

I bet there are 5284 different people calling out the coaches right now.

You meant to do that right

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

That's why I stay away as far away as I can.

IT WAS A BOWL GAME. This game wouldn't have made any less difference on the program if it had been arm wrestling vs. the Harlem Globetrotters at the county fair.

Leonard. Duh.

Oh for fucks sake.

I hate our fanbase sometimes.

every fanbase has crazies, including us unfortunately. I remember back in the day when I was in school and we lost to some school to be unamed on a short week, people were complaining about Tyrod and wished they had a nice white quarterback back there to throw the ball.

Jackson has a great head on his shoulders that for sure. Do I want him to improve drastically over the offseason and lead us to an ACC championship? Heck yeah I do, hes a solid dude.
Do I think the chances are equally in favor of Hookers elite athletcism beating Jackson out for the job? You betcha.

For me, JJ's body language leaves a lot to be desired. He doesn't come off as much if a leader.

I've never been more excited about the spring game. Can't wait to see the qb competition, the wr corps, and the dline that was being redshirted this year. I hope a really compeitive spring lights a fire under this team. I look for us to take another step forward next year.

this. He just doesn't look like he's "with it" on the sideline.

dunno if it's the nagging injuries or what, but he looks zonked half the time on the sideline.

also when talking to Patterson after the 4th quarter pick he wasn't even looking at him aside from the occasional glance.

Not a good look.

Hope he can get healthy this off-season and if he wins the QB job again, I hope our backups are competent enough that he can sit when his effectiveness is compromised by injuries like it has been the 2nd half of this season.

I was going to post something similar to your reply - I don't know how much of the body language that we witnessed was just because of youth, and is something he will learn, but I hope that is the case. I like the kid, but as a leader of the offense, your actions and body language are noticed by the players around you.

I trust he will work his tail off to get better, as will Hooker, Bush, and the other QB's. From an athletic ability, all other things equal, I cannot see Jackson being able to compete with the athleticism of Hooker (or Patterson for that matter).

Are we already throwing this crap up this was his first full year he's learning, Fuente is still learning, Rome wasn't built in a day have a little faith and instead of crapping on a kid be happy we've had a good season and the future is bright no need to be so quick to push someone aside so quickly

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

I don't understand how fans expected a lot more than what we got tonight.

I saw a team that wasn't perfect, and was missing some key players, but who tried to win and kept it competitive.

I'm not really disappointed. It wasn't a blowout.

I'm expecting improvement next year, and I'll support whatever choices this coaching staff make. For me, this team was prepared to play and faced a really good OSU team.

Completely agree

Some people acting like Josh Jackson is no better than Grant Noel, I mean damn. The kid just won us 9 games this season as a redshirt freshman. It's like the flaws people talking about are nitpicks like "he doesn't have that x-factor" or "he's not quite fast enough we need a fast qb" shut up, he was lighting it up before he got hurt in the Miami game.

JJ started to look more like himself today, more so than he had since mid-October. As far as Hooker and QP go, Quincy DEFINITELY redshirts, I don't think that's a debate. You don't bench your starter and another 4-star redshirt in favor of any true freshman. We honestly have NO CLUE how good Hooker is outside of some reps in the spring game, and while I think he will be good, we're in no position to say he should beat out Jackson next season until we see him in live action much, much more. Give me JJ in 2018.

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

I think it's worth pointing out that this team did not beat a single opponent with a record better than 7-6. We lost to every team we played that won at least 8 games. Also, as some others have pointed out, Jackson did not play well at all once we got into the conference part of our schedule.

In ACC play, Jackson's stats were:
1616 Yards (202 Average)
139/240 (57.9% Completion)
8 TD 7 INT

130 Rushing Yds
76 Attempts (1.71 Average)

Three of those touchdowns came against UNC. While he had 11 TD in the first four games, one was against an FCS team and the rest of those games were against some awful defensive teams:

WVU -108th in Total Defense (445.5 ypg), 91st in Scoring Defense (31.5 ppg)
ECU - 130th in Total Defense (541.7 ypg), 130th in Scoring Defense (45.0 ppg)
ODU - 94th in Total Defense (427.7 ypg), 93rd in Scoring Defense (31.7 ppg)

For reference, there are 130 teams at the FBS level, so ECU was literally the worst defense in the country. The only ACC we played that fell into range around these teams was UNC, who was 99th in Total Defense and 88th in Scoring Defense. The rest of the teams we played in conference were no worse than 69th in either category.

Furthermore, Oklahoma State ranks 75th in Total Defense (400.3 ypg) and 86th in Scoring Defense (30.1 ppg). The encouraging thing is to note that Oklahoma State had the 27th ranked Rushing Defense (131.75 ypg), and we carved them up. The bad thing is their passing defense is 118th (268.5 ypg), and Jackson managed just slightly under that average with 248 yards. Granted, these statistics are probably heavily skewed by playing in the Big 12.

While I certainly don't think Jackson should bear most of the blame, he hasn't really demonstrated an ability to make plays against decent teams. I don't think he should be guaranteed to be the starter next year.

Exactly! Not to mention people keep saying jj won us 9 games. This is very undermining of the team as a whole. Did jackson win us games like pitt and uva? Sure he played a part but to say he won us those games is laughable.

Another way to look at it is that 3 of the 4 teams we lost to are currently in the top 20.

So I guess there are multiple ways to look at it, depending on if your glass is half empty or full, or if you even brought a glass.

I don't think he should be guaranteed to be the starter next year.

No player should ever be guaranteed to be starter in any season. The best player should always play. If Hooker is the better player, he should play.

That said, I'm not sure why people think Hooker is going to be the better player? I think Jackson is what I expect from a redshirt freshman. I've said it multiple times, but I was a lot more confident with 2017 Josh Jackson throwing than 2008 Tyrod. I would flinch every time Tyrod threw the ball until half way through his Junior season.

Twitter me

YUP. And ironically, I'd compare peoplecalling for Hooker to the Bills fans calling for Nate Peterman six weeks ago. Tyrod is a good but not great quarterback, but he's doing enough to get them into the playoffs. JJ didn't win 9 games on his own, but he played well enough to almost get us 10 wins again this year.

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

Nah, we're not as bad as Bills fans yet.....yet. On their toxic subreddit, a lot of them completely discredit everything Tyrod's done for team and delusional enough to think many QB's would've done better given their current personnel. Hell, there are still a few of them that would be stoked for Nathan Peterman to play against the Dolphins this weekend instead of Tyrod. Yes 5-picks in the first half Peterman.

I think JJ had a solid year, which I think could've been even better even had he not gotten banged up and we hadn't lost Nijman, Phillips,Carrol for most of the year, etc. to injury. But I do think that an open QB competition for next year is a good thing, I want to see our offense rolling next year, and I'm cool with any QB that gives our offense the best chance to operate like Fuente wants

Yes, and go look at Tyrod's numbers across each year. JJ's stats hold up pretty decently in my mind.

All good points. And I agree, nobody should be guaranteed a starting spot next year. But should we expect a redshirt freshman Hendon Hooker to play better? Maybe he would, we just have nothing to base that off of.

I also am of the mindset that Jackson got hurt vs Miami. He wasn't just playing poorly after that, he didn't look at all like he did in September and October when he threw the ball. If I'm wrong, then maybe Jackson did just really struggle against ACC competition. But I absolutely do not think we've seen his ceiling, and it seems that other people are assuming that we have.

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

I think we got a lot out of a redshirt freshman this year, no? I don't think we're assuming we've seen his ceiling, but most experts will tell you that you can't teach arm strength, and you can't teach speed. I think mechanically he can be a lot better, and I think time with the receivers can certainly help. However, I think a lot of people who are intrigued by HH feel his athleticism will add a dynamic to this offense that isn't there.

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

I do agree about HH's athleticism, but I don't think that alone would give him the edge over JJ for next season. And my point was do we really expect a redshirt freshman Hooker to play any better than Jackson did this year? I think he would do ok, maybe even a little better than Jackson did this year, who knows. But I don't see him being further along and more advanced next summer than Jackson will be at that point. But I'll admit that's also assuming on my part.

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

He had a good October statistically speaking, but that's really because we only played three games that month - one of which was against UNC. That UNC game accounted for 3 of his 5 TD passes that month, and was the only ACC game all year in which Jackson threw more than 1 TD pass.

Hopefully he will improve in his accuracy and arm strength, otherwise next year will probably look a lot like this one. I think the big reason that people think they've seen his ceiling is because this is his second year in the program. The biggest improvements to his athletic abilities have likely already happened between his graduating high school and now.

Still, if he can greatly improve his accuracy, then we have a good chance next year. That needs to be his main focus.

I think that something happened during Miami as well that was preventing him from playing how he did during the earlier half of the season. I thought this was pretty telling - Da U game was on Nov. 4th.

This. I remember thinking it was clearly out of hand and Fuente left him in to get blown the F up every. single. snap. He left the game in the 4th quarter with an injury on a strip sack where he got his throwing arm about ripped off.

No Nijman means Jackson's blind side was not covered. Osterloh wasn't even close to being at Nijman's level.

Just for fun comparison's sake and because I'm obviously being the obnoxious JJ truther, here's some stats to look at:

First-year starting quarterbacks:

Josh Rosen, UCLA, true freshman: 3,670 yds, 60% completion, 23-11 TD-INT
Josh Allen, Wyoming, redshirt freshman: 3,203 yds, 56% completion, 28-15 TD-INT
Josh Jackson, VT, r-freshman: 2,991 yds, 60% completion, 20-9 TD-INT
Baker Mayfield, Texas Tech, true freshman: 2,315 yds, 64% completion, 12-9 TD-INT
Andrew Luck, Stanford, redshirt freshman: 2,575 yds, 56% completion, 13-4 TD-INT

I'd say JJ's first-year starting stats are fairly comparable to the rest of these stat lines. No, I don't think he will have the career that Baker Mayfield or Andrew Luck had, or that he has the pro-style skill set that the rest of these guys do, but I just think he is getting unfair criticism when he just finished up a great first year as a starter.

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

Much more than just comparing (abbreviated) stat lines
Mayfield and Luck were much better scramblers. All 4 have much stronger arms.

I'd be interested in seeing a comparison of passing stats down the field (like attempts over 10 or 15 yards) and then compare the numbers. JJ really struggled getting the ball down the field. And yes, I know some portion of that is on the WRs.

JJ was frustrating to watch through much of the game tonight. Some of his passes looked like Mr. Magoo threw them. He often threw behind receivers in mid range (maybe he was forced to throw when he did based window / on positioning of D players), and he badly overthrew the wide open long ball while under zero duress (on that particular play). He's had a full season to correct some inconsistencies that we saw tonight. So my expectation is that we can do better and that HH or QP give him a run next spring and summer (while hopefully JJ improves too). That said, I totally trust the coaches to make the correct evaluation and decisions when the time comes and kudos to JJ for what he did for the Hokies this season and for bringing the toughness and maturity he displayed all season.

In baseball, that's 'aiming the throw'...and is something that can be improved upon and coached through, and requires practice reps. It happens when your accuracy is just slightly off and you're trying to make it perfect.

I want whoever gives us the BEST and GREATEST chance to win and do better than this past AND last season; be it an immeasurably improved JJ, OR a superior Hooker or an unstoppable QP.

I'm with you MacGruber, I want to win ACC Championships, and I want to be in the final 4. I want whichever QB will get us to that mountaintop.

For all the talk of JJ being a redshirt freshman, I think you can counter that argument with the fact that he was competing with Jerod Evans last year for the starting gig. This guy isn't fresh out of high school. You either can get the ball to your receivers or you can't. You either can run between the tackles effectively and around the end or you can't. I think with better mechanics and repetitions with a young core of WR's would help JJ; but we cannot say that every fan should withhold their thoughts on his ability just because he's a young kid.

Now, I don't condone cursing at the kid through social media, or yelling insults from the stands. But as fans we have the freedom to express how we feel, and if we feel he's underperforming we should be able to say so. This kid is going to face criticism for the rest of his life, just like every other person on this planet. Criticism in life, criticism within sports, criticism on the job site, etc. Everyone on this site has an opinion, and should be able to share that without feeling like JJ is reading their post and contemplating transferring. His tweet shows his level of determination to succeed in the face of criticism, and I applaud that. That's why I love the kid because he's meek yet I know the inner desire is there to succeed and I want that for him. However, if the product on the field says otherwise the coaching staff HAS to move in another direction or at least be willing to challenge him.

I think that's what everyone in this thread is excited for, they are excited for the idea of good players pushing each other to be great. For all of the comments in this thread and others saying "lay off JJ he's a redshirt freshman" or "lay off JJ he doesn't have the receivers yet" or "lay off JJ the offensive line isn't doing well." I can respond to those comments with he's been in the system for a year and a half now. He's going to have a lot of the same receivers next year in addition to some new green ones. He's going to have a new offensive line that probably will be less experienced minus a graduating senior (Teller). The arguments can go on an on. All you can do is judge a player on the product on the field, not on the "what-if's" or the "lay-offs."

The fans who give their opinions on JJ and look forward to him being challenged next year are the ones who want to see VT get to the mountaintop. Those who realize that there's no such thing as incumbent in life and there shouldn't be on the football field. And I believe the coaching staff has this same approach, and because of that I'll trust the coaching staff to put the best product on the field.

Tonight was a helluva a game by the boys, I've never been more excited about VT football. So on that note: Go Hokies!

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

2_Hokie_5's comment needs to go plaid! Competition in all aspects of life makes things better, here's to open competition in the spring pushing our guys to bust their ass and improve on this year.

1-0 every week

Appreciate that man, I'm all for getting into the plaid HOF lol

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

Well-thought and supported opinions on his ability and performance are one thing. Calling him garbage on Twitter is cowardice of the highest order.

Gotta love those Twitter losers, love the kid, certainly ain't garbage in my book.

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

It's going to be an open competition. That's how Fuente rolled at Memphis, and that's how he is rolling here. I trust he will pick the best man for the job.

Little side note, Willis is going to be in it much more than people realize.

In Sam Rogers we trust.

THIS.
From some of what I've seen across the boards here feels most folks are treating Willis like some random walk-on and touting him as the next Click.... Willis already has 2 seasons & 2500+ yds as a P5 QB. Not saying he's going to come in and light things up by any means, but isn't a slouch either. I agree with you that we should expect RW to be very much in the mix in the spring. While he doesn't bring the same skillset with his running ability as the other guys, his experience and poise may give him a leg up.
We're looking at 4 legit QBs (JJ, HH, RW, AB) who could realistically run out under center on game 1 and another in the clip. I don't think very many programs in the country could lay claim to that. It's only going to get better from here out...!

Having a conversation with you is like a Martian talking to a Fungo.

.

And, I have it on good authority that Willis is a devoted fisherman. What more could we ask for?

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

That's how Fuente rolled at Memphis

huh? no. not even close. Fuente picked a young quarterback and stuck with him through much criticism, developed him over time and proved he was right in the long run.

I'm shocked no one has even mentioned Ryan Willis since this thread was started up again. He and JJ will be the only two guys heading into next season with any division 1 experience. Willis will also have two seasons of eligibility which is only one less than JJ's three. As I've stated previously in this thread, I don't know a lot about Willis' running ability. He's a big guy though (6'4" 220 lbs), so he can take some hits that maybe JJ can't, or just more hits, and he threw a touchdown in six straight games as a true freshman at Kansas where I'm almost certain he was surrounded by less weapons than he will in this offense. If he is on par with Jackson, I believe the coaches will still roll with JJ just because of JJ's experience actually running the offense in a game, but we shall see. If Hendon Hooker happens to be on par with Willis and JJ, I say the coaches will probably start Hooker because his four years of eligibility greatly outweigh Willis' two, and he has a higher upside than JJ.

As a true freshman, I can't see Quincy Paterson competing for a spot next season. If he is everything he is supposed to be, though, I hope it plays out like this: Willis wins the starting job and plays his final two years of eligibility. If he wins the starting job, he beat JJ who has had two years in the system and 13 starts under his belt. That means that Willis must be pretty good. Then, when Willis is gone, Hooker and QP compete for the job. I'm sure whoever wins between those two will be an awesome quarterback for us because of how highly touted both were/are out of high school.

In regards to JJ being left out of that equation, I just don't think he has the upside that Hooker and QP have. He isn't as big, doesn't have the arm, and isn't as fast. That doesn't mean he isn't a good quarterback. He led us to nine wins surrounded by a bunch of freshman and missing his starting left tackle for much of the season, and I will always be grateful for his performance against WVU to keep the Black Diamond Trophy in Blacksburg. At the end of the day, though, it's all about winning games. If any of the other guys give us a better chance of winning more games, the coaches will go with them.

Marshall University graduate.
Virginia Tech fanatic.
Formerly known as JWillHokieAlum.

I'm shocked no one has even mentioned Ryan Willis since this thread was started up again.

LOL, literally the post above this one mentions Willis. Oh well. The rest of this is still valid.

Marshall University graduate.
Virginia Tech fanatic.
Formerly known as JWillHokieAlum.

What you talking about? Willis?

I have my nitpicks with Jackson, but most are coachable

A) when he decides to take off out of the pocket it's like both feet are in molasses. He's not slow once he gets going, but It's like watching Peyton Manning deciding to tuck it and go for the first couple of steps. I don't see this getting better in the future for when he decides to pull it down, but got to believe it gets better as o-line progresses, receivers get seasoned and can get open, and Jackson can diagnose his reads quicker. So though I have time to go grab a beer while he takes his first few steps, hopefully he doesn't have to take them so often in the future

B). His footwork seems lazy to me. Especially on the quicker throws. He doesn't seem to ever get the back foot planted and drive the ball.....this is where some errant throws occur, especially the high ones.....one that almost got pick sixed tonight. However this is coachable and if Fuente is the qb whisperer that we believe, then this can be fixed

C) arm strength. It's not the greatest, but I think it's better than he shows a lot of times. That pass to Kumah on the sideline was a bullet.....he stepped into it (see above). He's no favre, but I think his arm is strong enough for this league when he gets coached up more and has better and more seasoned talent around him.

Long story short is this kid is a starting qb that you can win with. He's never gonna be Vick or tyrod that will make crazy dynamic plays, but he can be Trent dilfer and make the plays you need to win and not hurt you. If hooker plays even with him in spring and fall and takes care of the ball, then obviously you go with the upside, but I find it hard to believe that happens. I personally hope it does because Jackson played great for a freshman......if you can have another freshman compete and play as well or close to par with a guy that has a year of starting experience, and he has that much more athletic ability, then you have to roll with him......and be ecstatic that you have a more than capable backup (ask Florida state about this).

JJ has some mechanics to correct and seeing the game slow down and field better will come with experience. He ran hard and made some solid plays despite some drops from his WRs and some missed balls by him. I actually don't fault him much at all he's performed well as a freshman and will only improve if we give him the chance. My beef here is with Cornelsen continuuing to get into the red zone and go away from what's working (aka running and gaining 6ypc). From the one foot line I don't care who you are 90% of coaches are running qb sneak with a 220lb qb, not zone read. Hell, even a rb handoff out of the i formation. I know we don't run it all the time but the meshes point is much less risky and it's all about a minimizing risk at that point. Make a freshman with freshman mechanics and freshman receivers throw the ball 14/16 plays in the red zone and I'm not surprised at the outcome. Doubt a different freshman could have performed better in that circumstance.

Here's my take after sleeping on it last night. I REALLY hope Hooker worked his ass off this year to improve whatever the coaches thought he needed to improve on and gives himself a chance to win the job next year. As far as QP goes, I think there's about a 98% chance that he redshirts next year.

I'm not carrying a pitchfork and completely ragging on JJ, but there are things to his game that I question will improve. The main one being his quickness/ability to escape pressure. I think he's decent at designed runs, able to pick up 4-6 yards if there's a little daylight, but isn't the guy to break off many long runs. And when he has to improvise he looks like he's running in sand. He can't make it around the edge and very often can't make it through the hole in a collapsing pocket. I don't think that changes with time.

The other consistent frustration has been the deep ball. Seems like he can hit deep slants every so often, but when I see a receiver running straight down the field I have zero confidence in him making that throw.

He also seems to have some accuracy issues, especially when throwing on the run, but some of that I'm sure can be attributed to inexperienced WRs and their routes, though JJ also doesn't get a complete pass on that either.

All that to say, I think JJ is a solid QB, I think we can maybe even win the ACC with him if the supporting cast improves with him, but if HH can match JJ in the measurable outcomes category that Fuente talks so much about, then I think his athleticism gives him, and the team, a higher ceiling.

I'm not carrying a pitchfork and completely ragging on JJ, but there are things to his game that I question will improve. The main one being his quickness/ability to escape pressure. I think he's decent at designed runs, able to pick up 4-6 yards if there's a little daylight, but isn't the guy to break off many long runs. And when he has to improvise he looks like he's running in sand. He can't make it around the edge and very often can't make it through the hole in a collapsing pocket. I don't think that changes with time.

Hmm sounds like Paxton Lynch, no?

Twitter me

All those reasons for LT3's regression are contributors to JJ's struggles as well. When you lose 3 valuable skill players in one off-season, it hurt everyone. That said, there will be a competition and the best player will win it. Our fan base being childish and calling out players like we are is as embarrassing as dumping Gatorade on the opposing, losing coach.

VT Class of '12 (MSE), MVBone, Go Hokies!

I love a lot of things about JJ. Most of all, I love that he is a tough Hokie! But a couple of things are clear...

1. To the point French makes over and over again, he is very hesitant and not terribly accurate. That didn't get better throughout the season and that is certainly cause for concern.

2. Lets assume that he got somewhat healthy during the few weeks leading up to the bowl game, even the throws that he made last night that were accurate seemed to float quite a bit. His arm strength leaves a lot to be desired. the OKie St. secondary was hot garbage. Any other defense would be littered with corners jumping those short routes in/near the flat where the passes floated out there. And when he made those throws, he seemed to be trying to really drive the ball, but again there was nothing there.

3. None of us actually know if QP or HH is better than JJ. None of us know if either of those two can beat JJ out in the Spring or Fall. Right now JJ is QB of the VT football team, and not a bad one either. The kid is putting his body out there on the line each week and seemingly working his butt off for the program. He certainly isn't as good as we've had, but he certainly isn't as bad as some we've had either. The kid represents well, and he does just enough that if there was a single playmaker on the field with him, and/or any semblance of pass protection, things might have turned out different.

Is coronavirus over yet?

Either way that room is going to get real crowded next year barring attrition:

Am I wrong on this being the QB room next year:

Ryan Willis r-Jr
AJ Bush r-Sr
Josh Click r-Jr - - - s'Gone
Josh Jackson r-So
Chase Mummau r-So
Hendon Hooker r-Fr
Quincy Patterson Fr
Dejuan Ellis Fr

Click is gone, he walked on senior day. Also, Willis will be a R-Jr, but otherwise that looks correct

Interesting,

So does that mean Click walked on as a Sophomore or he graduated in 3 years? Either way, that's pretty impressive.
- I wonder if hell transfer and try to play FCS or something, would he still have two years eligibility?

I wouldn't be surprised to see Dejuan Ellis change positions.

Marshall University graduate.
Virginia Tech fanatic.
Formerly known as JWillHokieAlum.

Agreed 100%,

but I figured initially hell be in there in the fall.

Hokiesports roster has Mummau's jersey as #95 and listed as a holder... I'll safely say that the writing is on the wall for him from a QB standpoint and he's accepted moving on to another location that provides as much access to live action as possible. Glad to have a sure-handed (hopefully) option with a capable arm in catastrophic situations.

Otherwise, the list seems legit. No complaints on that list! Do your thing CJF!

Having a conversation with you is like a Martian talking to a Fungo.

.

I think Mummaus number and position change were so they could pull off the heist of the century with the fake punt pass...

brought to my attention here -> Mission Impossible: The Chase Mummau Edition

Wow. I never even caught that... I was in the kitchen finishing cooking dinner on that play... pro level strategery right there.

Having a conversation with you is like a Martian talking to a Fungo.

.

What's Chase Mummau's QB rating after the bowl game? ;^)

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

0-100

Id give him a Sam Rogers

We haven't had a backup quarterback this good since Lawson.

.

It will all play out in the spring. Obviously it would be great if Hooker puts it all together and realizes his potential, or maybe Willis ends up being quite the gunslinger from the pocket. But I am not concerned because worst case scenario is Jackson returns with a year of D1 playing experience as well as a deeper WR corps.

I'd prefer hooker, but I also forgot the question

Edit: Apparently, this is the same thing I said over a month ago in this very thread...... at least I'm consistent

Yall need to chill out. I couldn't care less who our QB is next year. We got some hella good coaches who know better than any of us here, and they will make the decision they feel is best for the team.

I just pray that we, as fans, treat JJ with more respect than we did Glennon if he gets the starting job next year

I agree, this thread has derailed pretty quickly. We certainly don't have a Glennon situation on our hands. We can all agree to that I hope. At least on this forum. I know the whacko's out in social media land can't be trusted to have the same level of rationality.

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

I want to win the ACC. Whichever QB gives us the best opportunity to do that next season is who I want. If it's Willis then it's Willis.

So in an effort to get this thread back on track, and after some good sleep last night, I feel a little more rational minded to say the following:

Last night gives me so much hope. Yeah I'm not sure who I want to be behind center, but I can say that we took a team with final 4 hopes all the way to the wire, even with the numerous amount of self inflicted wounds due to turnovers. SO many pundits felt like we shouldn't have even been on the same field with this team, and with a bunch of RS-FR and a banged up group of guys we fought hard as hell.

I feel like this loss shows us that there aren't many teams that can blow our doors off. Yeah OK St didn't have a stellar defense, but they sure as hell had a stellar offense and we outgained them by total yards and TOP. I feel like with another group or two of Fuente's recruits, a transcendent QB, and that good ol' LPD, we're on the cusp of punching people in the mouth. The culture is changing, and we just need it to change into a team that believes that every time they step on the field they should win. The last few of the late Beamer era recruits are headed out the door, and the mindset is evolving, you can see that with the product on the field. I love Beamer to death, but I don't think the late Beamer team would've been anywhere near as close last night. Just my personal opinion (before we get derailed on a Beamer tirade).

I'm not sure if we're ready to challenge the Clemson's, FSU's, Louisville's, and Miami's just yet for the ACC. But I feel like we're damn near close. Not to mention we held 2 Big 12 high scoring teams to a modest day in one season. Bud's defense will often keep us in games. We just need to finally turn the corner, and get to where there are times that the offense can bail us out. I think that is the last cog to turn this team into a national contender year in, year out. 9-4 in a rebuilding year, is a good thing. I truly feel it's nothing but up from here. At least my maroon glasses tell me so. -Go Hokies

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

Fuente's going to allow competition every off season at the qb spot (hell, probably every spot). It's really just a matter of how long that competition lasts. If it's close, it will last longer than if it's not.

It is interesting to me that a lot of people here seem to assume HH can read defenses, get through progressions, and be accurate. I hope he is or learns to be, but only the coaches know.

I don't think anyone here ASSUMES Hooker can do the required passing skills (deep ball, read defenses, 2-3 progressions, accuracy, etc). I think most of us in this thread HOPE that he's put that portion of his game together during his redshirt year. With the eventual hope that he can pair that with his athleticism for the QB competition next spring.

Personally, my biggest fear is the reps on the practice squad won't mount to much unless he's truly absorbed and processed the playbook during this past season. When you aren't practicing with the 1's and building that timing with the skill position players and the nuances that are necessary on the field, it'll show up real quick on game day, even in the pros.

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

I love JJ but he isn't Jake Fromm State Farm. He's got potential but he's not that.

I could go any way it falls next year.

EDIT: I'm actually rooting for Leal

Hot take: JJ has the highest ceiling of any quarterback currently on the team.

I feel as if everyone is taking as fact that he doesn't have potential to be a great QB. I always felt that JJs greatest asset in terms of potential was between the ears. Awareness is what separates good players from great. It's what allows Manning and Brady to be great QBs and Logan Thomas isn't. The most promising thing for JJ is that he did things the right way this year. There was little pulling and running after his first read wasn't there. There were more throw aways this year than I can remember in the past 20, which I belive is a great thing if we want him to develop into a 1st round QB talent. The pay off will come his Junior and Senior year when he is throwing players open against man defense and picking apart zone defenses. He isnt there yet. Learning that skill takes years to decades and he is starting down that path. This was a "sophomore slump" type year.I could be wrong. I will certainly back whomever the coach's pick. But I would not be so quick to discount JJ as a place holder quarterback until the next great one comes along. If we were all drinking the same "coach's son" Kool aid when he was competing for a starting job as a true freshman then that pay off will be down the road.

Side note: Brady and Manning are also very skilled at throwing footballs

I've thought a while on this, and I know I'll have to repeat this again elsewhere because this thread is really long, but at this point I think I'm ready to see what Hooker has next year. Don't get me wrong, I have the utmost respect for Jackson and think he did a good job this year, but I am not completely sold he's the right fit for what this team wants to do. That is, a main portion of our offense has been leaning on the RPO to keep defenses on their toes. Last year, with Evans it worked wonders because teams had to account for him on every play which freed up the rest of the offense to do what they could. Unfortunately, with Jackson he just seems a step slow in the running game, which allows the defense to react without saying him, which allows them to stack the box or double someone else in coverage. Everything I've heard about Hooker says he's got some quickness and elusiveness to his game, and if thats the case, it would drastically help out our offense as a whole. You can't teach quickness and speed, and unfortunately JJ just really doesn't have either.

I liken him a little bit to what we are seeing in Philly right now with Foles. He's a QB that is absolutely good enough to win you games, and if your defense plays up to potential, he could win you a title. But he's just not a right fit for what the team wants to do, and long term, probably isn't the best answer you have. Could be a starter anywhere else and Excel, but there is a little bit of square peg and round hole here.

So yeah, I don't think JJ is bad at all, I'm just not sold he's the right guy for this team going forward, not with what we want to have our offense look like.

This is my school
This is home

I've gone back and forth on this a few times, but I initially thought it would be difficult to replace a guy with a year of starting experience going into a big road test week 1 at FSU. But I'm also of the mindset that the best man should win the job. I also like Jackson and think he showed a lot of grit in the bowl and throughout the season. I also think given our limited personnel on offense, Jackson's margin for error was little to none in order to win. Without a true game breaker on offense other than Cam, and really no one who could consistently win the 50-50 ball, it was a tall order to ask a r-Fr to play flawlessly all season. I don't think Jackson deserves to shoulder the blame for the bowl loss at all.

But, I do agree that others on the roster and soon to be have much higher ceilings as a QB in Fuente's offense. Jackson won the job this year because he had the most experience in the system and was entrusted to not take unnecessary risks with the ball and play safe with our limited skill talent. After a full year of learning and with an infusion of talent and more experience under our WR's belts, I think there's a strong possibility Hooker could overtake Jackson.

This will be a very interesting competition to watch this spring and summer (feel like I say this every year). If Hooker continues to progress like many are hopeful he will, I think his upside could outweigh Jackson's experience. I don't think this offense will ever be in a position like an Alabama where you can just plug in a game manager at QB and rack up points. We absolutely need a difference maker at the spot.

Great point about Bama, I think they are able to plug whomever in, and not ask much of them because of their defensive skill. Their ability to recruit insane talent at the RB position is what helps as well as beefy offensive linemen. Then they always have that one playmaker on the outside at WR. It's a recipe for success for sure.

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

Is there any chance that due to the depth chart this year and other circumstances such as injuries, transfer rules, etc. that HH has had more reps with Hazelton, Patterson, Kumah, and others who will likely be starters next year.

Also, has Farley returned to any football activities yet or was his injury to serious for that?

Terrell Edmunds put up a video on his IG story of (I think) Farley doing sprints in the indoor facility. HE'S FAST.

https://twitter.com/joshiejack17/status/946582579779637249

Yikes! I don't like that JJ had to tweet about getting hate. I saw TKPs own French being classy. Wish they ALL were! I definitely want to see what Hooker can do but I'm not ever going to talk bad about a kid who is giving his best every down.

We'll see who wins the competition come spring, but I was hoping to see an audition of sorts from JJ in the Camping World Bowl. JJ doesn't have superior athleticism, so he needs to become near perfect in the aspects that he can excel at. Based on the bowl game (and his play throughout the year), he still has a lot to work on to be the best JJ, JJ can be. If does, he could be an elite ACC QB (but probably not an NFL prospect).

For JJ to become the QB we want him to be (top ACC QB), he needs to improve accuracy in short game and hit his athletes in stride (for example, look at Kellen Moore's tape). Too often, the receivers needed to adjust to catch the ball (if it was even catchable), losing several yards a pass (and first down conversions).

JJ also needs to improve his downfield vision and progression, especially when he scrambles. Whenever he feels pressure, he has the same move to scramble out to the left and either throw it away or try and run. He had a hard time keeping his eyes downfield, even though receivers would open up as soon as he began his scramble. It should be noted that Tyrod improved his vision, especially during scrambling, through his years, so I have faith JJ can improve too.

JJ needs to improve the back shoulder fade. He saw Jerod throw 100s of perfect back shoulder fades, but JJ was unable to come close to matching Jerod's talents. JJ's are often lofted too high or thrown too far inside. Perhaps JJ doesn't have the arm strength, but he should be able to at least be more accurate. Receivers were also not the best at adjusting to the pass, so VT really needs for them to work together in the offseason.

JJ needs to get better at reading the defense on veers (and inverted veers). He also needs to get much better at the mesh point, pulling off the fake and holding onto the ball. He doesn't need to be a super rusher, he needs to keep the defense honest.

I'm sure Fuente has set a progress meter of sorts for all his QBs. Pure athleticism doesn't make the best QB, but if JJ doesn't progress into a better QB by next fall, I would think a more athletic Willis or Hooker will win the competition.

TL;DR -- If JJ improves what he can be good at, he can be an elite ACC QB. In short, JJ needs to be more accurate in the short game, improve downfield vision, improve on the back shoulder fade, and improve on the running the veer. If he improves on at least these aspects by next fall, I expect him to be QB. If not, I would expect a more athletic QB to to take the helm.

🦃 🦃 🦃

Agreed.

Jackson is athletic enough, but the thing that he was touted for was he made the right decision and was accurate.

Before this game I would have said his spot is pretty secure. He made some good throws. But he missed a good number of throws.

If the game slows down for him and he starts making those throws I think he wins the job. But it's good to know he has serious competition, if he doesn't improve I wouldn't be surprised to see him get beat out.

I have great hope for next year regardless of who starts... my hot take on J.J. is this... he looks a step slow when he moves to run...and he's definitely got some inconsistentency on throws..basically what I'd expect from a redshirt freshman QB...if he takes the next step next year he could be pretty awesome.... my gut tells me otherwise... either way I'm happy at 9&4 and I'm proud of how hard this team fought all year!

He's Still Open!!!

I love the fact that we can have this discussion.

Previously LowBrau.

Especially when the conversation can remain civil. It's awesome to hear everyone's thoughts on why JJ should start our not. Most of all I believe this thread shows our appreciation for each player on our squad regardless of the difference of opinion. I believe we are a unique fan base, and that's why I love being a Hokie.

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

I have 2 gripes with JJ:
1. He does not sell the play action AT ALL. He hands the ball off or pretends do as if he is announcing to the world what he is doing. Almost zero subtly or misdirection.

2. He always has this look on his face like he's tired or exasperated

I'm just glad we have had so many alliterative quarterbacks: TT, JJ, HH.

I hope this is a trend we can continue in the future.

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

I think it is important to remember that we lead off with FSU next season..."big" national TV game that is going to drive some hype. Understanding that JJ might not have the same potential or athleticism as the younger dudes, it would sure be nice to have an experienced qb for that type of game. My personal opinion is he is not the qb of the future for reasons already discussed, but opening game on ESPN against a blue blood...not an ideal time for a freshman to find out how hot the stove is.

This comment truly takes this thread in a different direction. Leg for you!

I wonder how much of this will factor into who Fuente chooses. Because I'm sure any coach would take experience over a higher ceiling. Granted you could always change the QB midway through the season, but this might be a big factor in who wins the competition next spring. Great point.

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

kinda like that one time we played against LSU and went with the more experienced QB...that worked well.

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

Touche' sir

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

The fact that Glennon only had .73 seconds to get the ball off before he was walloped did not help. OL was garbage that game.

"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken" - Colonel Sanders via Ricky Bobby

A lot of people forget that year had the O line that couldn't pass protect for anything.

FSU does not have a DC at the moment, so this is pure speculation, but FSU will seemingly become an offense first, defense second school with Taggert. I see them becoming the Big12 team of the ACC, or a much more talented Syracuse or UNC. A team that will put up 40 almost every game, but also lose some of those games 40-42.

Accordingly, I don't know if that means we have the same game plan we had against OKST, or do we put in a QB that can also light up the scoreboard. I think it's the latter, considering the way OKST played out.

🦃 🦃 🦃

So for all the arguments in this thread about how "you can only expect so much out of a redshirt freshman," how about those true freshman tonight ?

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

You're not wrong but we're also not Bama

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

In the other thread I put the disclaimer "I know these kids are 5 star prospects." But is that a valid argument? I mean what I'm getting at is that the best talent should play, no? A 66 year old school guy like Saban even noticed during the HALFTIME OF A NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP GAME that the best talent needed to be on the field. So he slotted 3 true freshman into the lineup. I feel like far too many times in this this thread the argument was, "JJ is just a REDSHIRT freshman, we can only expect so much of him." Yet a TRUE freshman last night, came in at halftime, and balled out. Was he a 5 star athlete? Yup. Was he a TRUE freshman? Sure was. Did that change the fanbase's expectation when he came into the game though? Nope! Especially a rabid fanbase that spent an arm and a leg to get inside that stadium last night to witness what they hoped would be a 5th championship in 9 freaking years.

I just feel like last night shows that no matter how young the kid is, the best talent needs to be on the field. I also feel like last night showed that no matter how young the talent is, we as a fan base can have expectations. Take a deep breath, it's ok to have expectations on a redshirt freshman. Now are they expectations that will be met with great results? The statistics say no. But as a fan base we can hope for that anomaly, that same anomaly that occurred last night; that same anomaly that read a cover 2 defensive formation, looked off the safety, and threw a dart down the sideline.

The arm strength, athleticism, and ability to read the coverage, was performed by a TRUE freshman last night in OT in a pressure packed situation. Expectations from a rabid fan base was on full display in MBS last night. The kid delivered, no way to sugar coat it. Did he have his freshman mistakes? Sure. However, if HH or even QP for that matter can provide more upside than JJ, and can pepper in the shortcomings of a freshman in non-critical spots, then I say put the kids in the game. If they can't provide that, then put JJ back on the field for a follow-up season, and hope that he can continue to develop as a passer to offset his athletic limitations against ACC level defenses.

We aren't Alabama, I totally agree, but our defense has the capability to keep us in games. A talented offense can truly put us in the national conversation. No matter the class of the player or the star rating (Baker Mayfield) a great coach, coachable talent, and a supportive fan base (with expectations) can truly push a program over the top. Onto the next season. Go Hokies, and hurry up Spring game!

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

You make good and valid points, but I feel like you might have the expectation that even though JJ was a freshman, if he was going to be a really good player then he would have played better this season. I mean you're right, some redshirt freshmen have been Heisman finalists, while others have just played decently but went on to have fantastic careers.

The expectation of freshmen should not be the level of play that Tua showed last night. He was really good, with no experience, and that's extremely rare for a freshman, especially in that scenario. But to say that just because this kid at Bama played great last night means Josh Jackson should be able to do the same thing isn't fair or reasonable. Not sure if that's what you're saying or not, but just wanted to put that out there.

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

Whether or not JJ could have done what Tua did last night is beside the point. I think the learning lesson coming out of last night is that you have to put your best talent on the field, regardless of seniority. If either HH or QP are so talented that, going into the Spring Game and fall workouts, that we have a legitimate QB competition and the biggest selling point for JJ is his seniority, maybe its best for the direction of the program to go with the better younger players.

Personally, if everything I've heard about HH is correct, and he has the wheels and elusiveness to make him a legitimate big time running threat with an arm to make the throws needed, then it might be best to go with him next year. And if QP comes in showing he can throw with accuracy right away, then he has to start. If both of those players live up to their expectations, we likely see both declare early, so better to use them while we can.

This is my school
This is home

I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm saying we have no ferking idea how good QP or Hooker will be against ACC defenses, so how can we start saying they are more talented than Jackson and start calling for Jackson's job in January?

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

I look at it like this. Our offense runs through the RPO, and a significant portion of that offense is the unknown on whether the QB or RB (or sometimes WR) has the ball on the run aspect of it. With Jackson, we know that skill just isn't in his repertoire, and it doesn't allow us to be able to run our offense the way in which we want it to be run. If Hooker or Patterson can bring that ability into the fold, and bring that added dimension to our offense, we're a better team overall for it, because it allows us to use the entire playbook. We need our QB to be able to shoulder a large portion of our running game, and I don't think Jackson is that kind of QB.

I personally don't think Jackson is a bad QB, I think he's really good when healthy. Unfortunately, I just believe he might not be in a position where his skills mesh perfectly with the offense he's being asked to run.

This is my school
This is home

Kind of ironically I think he would do well at Michigan

Free Hugh

I hear ya man, and thanks for taking the approach of seeing what I meant first prior to throwing fuel on the fire of an argument ensuing. I'm not saying Jackson should perform like Tua. Tua had a unique scenario that he had 5 star athletes all around him. The offensive linemen gave him incredible pockets on most plays, the RB stable that Saban has is just comical, and the WR's at his disposal truly helped as well. JJ surely didn't have those odds playing in his favor.

I simply was speaking to expectations, and how it's ok to have expectations on a player no matter the level of experience. I think fans want to put "expectation rules" in place, especially when the player starts to hit a wall. In turn, the fans who want to see that player perform at a higher level are scolded, "how dare you expect that of a redshirt/true freshman." All I was arguing is that last night showed that argument to be false, last night showed that we can have whatever expectations we want as a fan base so long as we are prepared for the potential let down.

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

Yep you're right. There's two sides to it; once a freshman starts playing great a la Jackson in the first 6 games of 2017, that becomes the expectation. But once he starts to slide, many will defend him and cite his inexperience. I'm still of the belief that his health held him back the second half of the year, and I still think he could light up some ACC defenses next year when he's 100%.

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

Lost in all the hoopla about true freshman last night is that Tua performed in one half. When he got put in, Bama had nothing to lose and it was a huge roll of the dice by Saban because UGA had shut down and shut out their offense the entire first half. I think it's probably less "talent"-driven than it was "game narrative"-driven.

There is a huge difference between a back-to-the-wall, win-or-go-home, we-got-one-half-to-see-if-this-works situation and throwing the true freshmen into the season as the starter. Neither Fromm nor Tua started their seasons as the starter for the respective teams. Fromm staked his claim to the job after Eason got hurt and never let it go.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

I agree he only had one half of good play. But we aren't too far removed from the memory of Tyrod subbing in during the LSU game with much different results. Granted this isn't a one-for-one comparison, but I don't think it can be understated what this kid did last night.

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

Exactly -- I'm not trying to understate it, just provide some situational context for how what transpired last night isn't exactly the best argument for "start the year with QP because talent wins".

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

I'm with you, I think the "start QP" camp because of his Elite 11 run is a little premature. Granted, if he does have the talent to start put him on the field. I think at this point I have one foot in the JJ camp and one foot in the HH camp, and I'd be perfectly fine with either winning out. I simply hope last night kills the "incumbent" argument.

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

inb4 Jalen Hurts to VT posts

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

No thanks. I can't imagine jalen hurts will be better in two years than anyone else we have in the pipeline. Let LOLUVa fall all over themselves to recruit him. Their last Bama QB recruit turned out so well

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

Yeah I don't actually want Jalen Hurts, in case I wasn't clear.

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

i could see him ending up some where like pitt and causing us real problems. he aint coming here. but he sure aint never playing another snap for bama. FIU and PITT would be my guess in my way to early where will HURTS end up pole.

twitter @smithey_daniel
head scout BSP scouting specializing in north florida/ southern GA highschool football scouting

I'm sure it has already been said but I decided it wasn't worth my time to read this thread during the season since I wanted to support the current product and don't feel like reading through all of the comments...

With that said, I think we have seen for the most part what Josh Jackson is capable of. Able to do well against mediocre defenses but looks a little slow/underpowered against better defenses. If Hooker has a better arm and with experienced receivers around him to mitigate freshman inconsistencies (which I know Fuente can't stand) I think his running ability will open up the offense by making defenses struggle more to make things one dimensional.

Long story short: This is a good problem to have. Have Jackson be the next Mark Leal or Brendan Motley and RS Patterson.

Do you think JJ could've made that throw in OT last night?

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

"What are you going to do, stab me? - Quote from Man Stabbed

Would you call BS if I made the argument that, that throw as made against ECU, not Georgia in the NC game?

Wish we let JJ open things up a little more as the season progressed for sure. Great throws like that reaffirm my thoughts that he can be a cerebral QB with his arm, I just hope his feet can catch up with the mental strengths.

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

That dude was so wide open that kicker could have kicked the ball to him

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

Only if the kicker was actually aiming for the goal posts, then it would have hooked right into his arms.

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K

If Fuente & his staff are truly students of the game (which they are), then I presume they were not only watching the one last night, as well as intently analyzing and studying everything. I hope he paid particular attention to what Saban did in the instance of QBs. The job is JJ's to lose. There is a VERY limited time during games to make mistakes or get into some sort of rhythm. An extremely narrow window. If JJ doesn't execute, then Fuente should go the route of Saban and put in Hooker. Unless QP "scorches earth", RS him. It's all about winning.

I put this in a post as well but still think its too sick not to share elsewhere

This is Josh vs Jerods stats

Thats pretty good considering:
a) Josh was a Freshman
b) Jerod was like 10th in the nation in most of those categories
c) Josh apparently was playing on a broken foot? for the second half of the season

I do think that bodes will for either Hooker or Ryan Willis if its true that the staff was going to have Bush move positions....

disclaimer: I dont know if any of the above are true about the broken foot or Bush position move...just hearsay .

I seen you post this in another forum, and I was going to comment over there, just never got around to it. These numbers are within the same arena for sure. Granted, Evans QBR is almost 20 points better and about 600 more total yards of offense (9 more TDs). Josh was surely not the worst freshman QB by any means. I didn't hear that broken foot story. Do you have a link for that?

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

Jackson actually posted the best numbers of all freshman QBs this year, including total yards

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

Off-the-radar option: JJ and HH on the field AT THE SAME TIME in the 2-QB Funroe offense.