Did Fuente earn another year?

Think about this. He is 4-1 against UVA, who I'm sure will be retaining Bronco. VT is going to pony up $10M to buy him out? This may have been the tipping point. When couched in the terms of a new DC, no spring practice, top 2 DBs opt out/injured most of the year, and still walloping the in-state rival, you have to wonder what the thought process is for Whit. I know we've hashed this out and we're ready to stroke the check, but it's going to be a more difficult decision after tonight.

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Comments

No.

Another white bronco? The first one didn't go too far.

Yes

Dittos on No.

VT '10--My avatar will flip, when things are right at VT again.

Rick Monday... You Made a Great Play...

Romanes Eunt Domus

No.

But apparently he's being gifted one. I think it's a big mistake. Like giving a kid a dodge viper for their 16th birthday. We'll see what happens, I guess.

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

No.

Do you want us to be fucking mediocre for another year?

What we do in life, echoes in eternity

Mediocre is optimistic. This is what he does with players of good caliber. Let the players in the current and prior class be the key contributors and the team will suck. Not disagreeing with you. Just making a general statement on how I want Fuente gone.

Recovering scientist working in business consulting

Great points with this.

We had talent for a 10-1 Season (did not expect a W against Clemson, under all but the most extraordinary circumstances), with this Schedule. Instead, with had at least 3-inexcusable, embarrassing losses. At least 3...

VT '10--My avatar will flip, when things are right at VT again.

Rick Monday... You Made a Great Play...

Romanes Eunt Domus

Not on D. Maybe on O, but the , especially the secondary was patchwork at best.

Correy

We are going to be mediocre next year regardless. What I'm saying is that in terms of $$$$, when compared to your in state rival, can you justify the expense given the comparison. It's not as clear cut. I'm not comparing VT to FSU/Clemson because that's not our peer

Well, no matter who we end up hiring, we arent suddenly going to be a good team.

Understandable. But keeping him another year will doom our program for the next 5+ years with the way he is running things.

What we do in life, echoes in eternity

We don't really know that. It might doom our program to shell our an insane amount of money. Plenty of programs recover from poor coaching decisions. We just arent used to this after 3 decades of Beamer.

God no

Vroom Vroom

Beating UVA is not the high water mark we were led to expect from Fuente. In year 5 we were supposed to be challenging Clemson. Good game, but I think he gone.

counterpoint...playing games this year at all was the high water mark!

"Take care of the little things and the big things will come."

Everyone had COVID issues. It is not unique to us, and it's a pretty awful excuse considering many of the in game problems have been self inflicted coaching fuckups.

And let's not pretend this year took place in a vacuum. Fuente is having the same problems this year he had last year. And has shown no ability or willingness to adapt.

I'm tired of the COVID excuse as well. Some teams chose to rise above the challenge, and some (including us), didn't.

I am the heartbeat of Blacksburg. A fortress built out of stone but made with champions.

Or the challenges affected different teams in different ways. I don't think it is necessarily an excuse. College football has looked nothing like it's normal self this year.

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K

"Chose" to rise above the challenge is certainly one way to look at it. Kind of like how UVA coaches tweeted about it earlier in the season.

I read VTacajoe's comment as it was a victory to even have games to watch this year. Before the season started many were saying no-way-was-it-going-to-happen. It was not what we wanted be, but the fact that it happened was a victory. Imagine how gloomy these past few months would have been without football.

Ut Prosim Ad Dei Gloriam

Imagine how gloomy these past few months would have been without football.

Frankly, I think I would have preferred to save myself the heartburn, frustration and growing apathy the past few months of VT football has provided. The only time I had a good time this season was watching us spank UVA last night.

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

I'll play devils advocate here, what if we didnt have a season this year and this offensive staff doesnt get exposed for what they are and were left with fuente and cornelson for another year or two even? If the pain now means moving on sooner and not having to wait till 2022 to make a coaching change I'm fine with it.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

Hard disagree. The NC State game was one of the most exciting games I've ever watched, purely because of this COVID cloud hanging over us. UNC was one of the first times I ever saw VT compete in a shootout (only other time I can think of was Frank's last bowl game against Tulsa). What a fun watch and great follow up to last year's 6-OT competition. The Boston College win was dominant.

It's been great to have VT football back this season, and finally return to some normalcy after the most bizarre year of my life. This season wasn't pretty, didn't live up to expectations, but that's part of being a college football fan; you learn to enjoy the rollercoaster. The highs wouldn't feel so great if it weren't for the lows.

Twitter me

Completely understand the sentiment, however it was fun watching a quality back running behind a quality line. It's been a while since the Hokies have had such a combination.

I agree. Somehow I found that more thrilling than normal WR catches. Except of course our guys that make those dam one handed stretch and fight off the CB on the edge of a line catches.

This is going to be great for the ACC.

I'm on the fence. If he goes, ok, but better get a real good replacement or we are looking at a much worse record - If he stays, it will be on double-secret probation and he will have to have a good year next year - so either way I think it's fine - they just need to see beyond just firing him. The big consideration is cost and who replaces him.

"I play real sports, not trying to be the best at exercising..." - KP

There is no fence...the answer is no. With all due respect.

It's a multimillion dollar fence. And if you think they're just going to bring in some cheap replacement and start cranking out the wins, you're in for major disappointment. This decision, contrary to 90% of people on this website, is not a "no-brainer." There are many factors at play, and many that we have no idea about as well.

"I play real sports, not trying to be the best at exercising..." - KP

Agreed with this take.

his salary is 2nd in ACC. Based on performance, VT is overpaying by about 1.5 million by keeping him.

๐Ÿฆƒ ๐Ÿฆƒ ๐Ÿฆƒ

From what we DO know I think the decision is clear... even if it's a decision with some drawbacks. I'm willing to concede that Whit knows more than we do, especially about financials, that could factor in.

How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Jet Sweep

I definitely see your point but the long term cost of keeping this guy could cost a whole lot more than $10M. Hell, $10M might look like a bargain compared to not getting rid of him. But you are very correct in saying this is not going to be an easy decision.

What if the buyout money is not an issue? There have been multiple people alluding to some donors stepping up to have already covered the buyout money. I'm by no means an insider, so I don't know if there is any validity to it or not. But if it is the case, there is no way Whit should keep him around another year

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

If you think Tech will be better next year - with very little incoming recruiting help, losing Darrisaw, Mitchell and Herbert to the draft, and then the usual round of Fuente transfers - I don't know what to tell you. Right now, this team has no future and no clear direction under Fuente.

I don't think we'll be better next year. It would take a miracle. That would save him his job. I think he's gone this week or a year from now (because we will suck). But ---> it will be a lot cheaper after next year to fire him, and give us time to get someone who can actually right the ship - That said, if Whit has an ace up his sleeve and a donor dropping some big dollars, sure, make the move.

"I play real sports, not trying to be the best at exercising..." - KP

But it won't be a lot cheaper relatively. It will go down from $10 Million total to $7.5 Million. So if you are so confident next year will be trash it is definitely worth the $2.5 million to get someone new and re-energize the program. A rough first year with a new coach because of what the last left is a lot different than a rough 6th year with a dead end coach. Recruiting would continue to bottom out..

I'm not convinced on this take. What if the guy we need to do the job isn't available this offseason? What if we don't have the cash to get the right guy this year? These are all real possibilities. Again I'll trust whit has got this covered.

"I play real sports, not trying to be the best at exercising..." - KP

You don't spend $10M to fire a guy unless you know the guy you want is available and you've made sure they're interested.

In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if (assuming Fu is out) Whit has a handshake agreement in place with the next HC's agent.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

That was exactly my point. Money AND a viable candidate need to be available. Will soon see if that's the case.

"I play real sports, not trying to be the best at exercising..." - KP

Agree with your point except we'll soon see if Whit think's that is the case.

This us exactly how I would make my pitch to the admin if I was Whit. There is really no argument of saving money if you have no faith Fuente can turn it around. If we were recruiting well through this mess, I would argue for another 2 or 3 years after revitalizing the staff.

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K

No. This was the year the team produced. He has more losses than wins. This recruiting year was to be transformative. It sucks. Okay, does not suck, but is bad. He should be fired as soon as financially possible.

Recovering scientist working in business consulting

No. Went 4-1 against the rival, which is good, but too many failings across the rest of program.

I am not sure what to do with my hands now

If Whit has already collected buy out money, then Fuente is gone. If Whit is waiting on still waiting for donors to contribute, then the jury is still out.

Twitter me

That check is cashed

VTMidge

Sauce? Unless someone has receipts, none of this is as cut & dried as most folks on here are making it seem.

Think about how long a $10M toilet flush would haunt this program. We ain't got the horses, but we ain't got the oats either.

You're the only ones that I can talk to about this, you guys.

If donors gave money for a buyout, it hurts us 0 years long, but if fan apathy grows, ticket sales and other revenue decline, it can hurt us and the entire athletic department for a decade or more.

See I have the opposite reaction. If we get rid of Fuente it means we're so disgusted with 6-8 win seasons that we'll spend $10M to get rid of him. (We would be around 7-5 under a regular schedule).

That's not a bad thing, 6-8 is not good enough. But the way we could really hurt this program for over a decade is to hire a coach who starts winning 3-5 instead of 6-8, all while spending $10 mil we don't have, to do it.

It happens in CFB all time: Nebraska, Tennessee, South Carolina, FSU, etc. We've luckily been insulated from truly horrible coaching, due to Frank and now Fu. Do we really drop $10 mil for a dice roll that could turn out very poorly?

No, it means that we don't tolerate consistent terrible recruiting classes and losses to the likes of ODU and Liberty.

"I have a PLAN. You just need to have a little goddamn faith, Whit. I just need. more. MONEY." - Justin van der Linde

7-5 in an alternate 2020, without COVID, when the expectation was nine wins and a Coastal title? The fan base wouldn't feel much different, and we're probably still looking at letting him go.

Especially if that 7-5 record included a home loss to Liberty.

Can't be scared

Removing features to get people to sign up for your service is something EA would would do.

Scared money don't make no money.

all while spending $10 mil we don't have

Did you not read HokieDoug96's post? He clearly stated "If donors gave money for a buyout". That means it hurts Virginia Tech's budget not at all.

to hire a coach who starts winning 3-5 instead of 6-8

Let's assume VT was flush with money somehow, so any financial windfall for the foreseeable future is not an argument. A new HC is probably going to land somewhere in the 3-5 win range over the next few years, simply because our recruiting pipeline is straining to keep up with demand. Just like with Buzz we he first came in, and last year with Mike Young, having a few seasons of low wins is not indicative the progress isn't being made.

What is indicative that progress isn't being made is that our recruiting classes are on the decline, negative records are being set in the books in the form of blowout and huge upset losses, and bad losses aren't in the rearview mirror...they are still happening sporadically throughout the seasons.

I don't want to risk having the next couple of seasons be at or below .500 because the program is continuing to slide in a negative direction by sticking with the same people and the same ways. I'd much rather have a few down seasons where the potential to change things around is there.

But, reality is what it is. There is no right answer because we never get to see what would have happened if the other option was chosen. All that we can do is make the best decision we can in the moment, hope it was the correct one, learn from our mistakes, and make sure we beat the 'Hoos every damn year!

This game had no bearing on Whit's decision. Whit saw enough prior to this game to determine whether he should let Fuente go, or based on the extenuating circumstances give him a pass. We'll know later in the week.

no

Danny is always open

If Whits decision is swayed by one game against a rival compared to the season(s) trajectory of the program, I don't want whit to get another year either. /e (for mild exaggeration)

Here lies It's a Stroman Jersey I Swear, surpassed in life by no one because he intercepted it.

I'm not saying he has earned it. But if I'm predicting what happens, I think we see him back next season.

Virginian by Birth, Hokie by Choice

No.

I think he stays....but he may have to offer sacrifices (Corny). That win tonight and in that manner may have bought him another year.

If he's retained - fire Corny (I would be cool with Vice getting promoted), fire all the position coaches who can't recruit, replace them with those who can.

Honestly, it's the player reaction to him tonight that swayed me to thinking he's going to stick around. And when I think if VT as an institution wants to spend that 10 million to let him go, after tonight I think they give him another year.

And Shibest. Our special teams might be worse than the play calling. They just aren't as visible.

i was thinking back to how many games our punt returns have lost us and its nonzero. we must be leading the nation in muffed punts

Danny is always open

I joked about that earlier. When the muffed punts number for the season is greater than 1, there is a problem.

Oh it's visible - very. the muffed punts this year have been backbreaking.
Flip side, the kicking has been overall good

"I play real sports, not trying to be the best at exercising..." - KP

IMHO, Shibest and Corny need to go at a minimum. Vice obviously needs to be retained, perhaps even promoted to OC. Lechtenberg probably too early to make a judgment call (especially if he was the main recruiter for Herbert). No clue about Jafar.

not just this year, but the last few.... I brace myself for the impending fumble every punt now (it replaced my old block anticipation)

Danny is always open

Yes, I want Shibest gone even more than I want Fuente or Corn gone. He is almost as bad as my ex-fiancรฉ.

Recovering scientist working in business consulting

Wish I could give you 10,000 legs up. Alas, I have only one leg to give. By the way, bless you Nathan Hale (I work for a British company).

Recovering scientist working in business consulting

When have we had a better combination of kicker/punter. Aren't those part of special teams?

Yep a TE returning punts!

Even when you get skunked; fishing never lets you down. ๐ŸŽฃ

We put good players back there and they drop punts. Including a guy who was great at catching punts last year. Is that coaching or execution? It isn't a problem caused by playcalling, or the players not knowing how. Also VT is good at punting and kicking field goals.

One thing I noticed more last year or the year before was how our guys didn't seem to be aware of the rule that if you call for a fair catch on a kickoff, it's a touchback. That burned us on field position several times.

I didn't notice it as much this year, because we didn't seem to get too many kickoffs that landed in that sweet spot.

If he had beat Clemson, I would say maybe.

That being said, I think the opinion of the players is going to play a big role in Whit's decision. If the leaders on the team want to keep Fuente, it's a compelling reason for Whit to not pull the trigger.

If Fuente beat Clemson he'd be getting a multi year extension and we'd be cheering it. If you don't think beating the multi year national champions is a big deal you're kidding yourself

Nein

-Stick it in

Hell no

We still finished with a losing record and have had back to back absolutely miserable recruiting classes. He gots to go.

"I have a PLAN. You just need to have a little goddamn faith, Whit. I just need. more. MONEY." - Justin van der Linde

"miserable recruiting classes".

That is the key. This team will be bad for a decade is Fu is kept,

Recovering scientist working in business consulting

Technically, if we were to play and win a bowl game we would have a .500 record amd therefore not a losing record.

Ut Prosim Ad Dei Gloriam

Two very big ifs

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

Tbh the recruiting aspect is everything to me. If he wasn't also a closed off hush hush person I'd maybe accept it. But clearly he can't recruit and that's a death spiral for a program.

It is also clear that Beamer recruited waaaaaay above his rankings and just was too loyal to his employees. It is sad to think about what his ceiling could have been with a quality OC.

No. Good guy but no.

Hokie Club member since 2017

4-1 to UVA is a minimum expectation. That 1 is actually too much.

How's the record with Miami? Pitt? GT?

Are we competing for ACC titles?

Is recruiting moving up?

How about fan engagement, or getting bigger donations to support the program....that doesn't involve buying out the contract?

No. He has not earned himself another year.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

I was also interested in Fuente's ACC record Vs other teams:

Coastal (18-11):

  • UVA 4-1
  • UNC 4-1
  • DUKE 4-1
  • PITT 3-2
  • Miami 2-3
  • GT 1-3

Atlantic (7-7):

  • FL State 1-0
  • Louisville 1-0
  • NC State 1-0
  • BC 3-2
  • WF 1-1
  • Syracuse 0-1
  • Clemson 0-3

Also:

  • ND 1-2
  • Bowls 1-3

I am not sure their can be forgiveness for 0-1 against Syracuse and 1-1 against Wake.

these are the types of numbers that are acceptable at a place like UVA or Wake Forest or Duke. VT is too proud for that kind of performance.

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

How's the record with Miami? Pitt? GT?

PITT 3-2
Miami 2-3
GT 1-3

Well...There it is, and it's not good. The one season we beat all three, we had a shot at the Coastal, and proceeded to lose to UVA for the first time in 15 years.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

Coach, you wanna answer that for everyone?

"That's the most ludicrous crap I've ever heard. Next question."

If you play it, they will win.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used." -The BoD

my maaaaans

21st century QBs Undefeated vs UVA:
MV7, MV5, LT3, Braxton Burmeister, Ryan Willis, Josh Jackson, Jerod Evans, Michael Brewer, Tyrod Taylor, Sean Glennon, and Grant Noel. That's right, UVA. You couldn't beat Grant Noel.

If you play it, they will win.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used." -The BoD

Gonna have a hard time not relying to all your posts with some variant of "okay motherufcker..."

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

I have sought help for my anger.

21st century QBs Undefeated vs UVA:
MV7, MV5, LT3, Braxton Burmeister, Ryan Willis, Josh Jackson, Jerod Evans, Michael Brewer, Tyrod Taylor, Sean Glennon, and Grant Noel. That's right, UVA. You couldn't beat Grant Noel.

Its already been said several times. This isn't about if Fuente is a good guy. This isn't about if Fuente cares about the kids. This isn't about if Fuente beat UVA. This is about job performance. Fuente hasn't performed. No. But I wish him the best in the future. Sincerely.

"The Big Ten is always using excuses to cancel games with us. First Wisconsin. Then Wisconsin. After that, Wisconsin. The subsequent cancellation with Wisconsin comes to mind too. Now Penn State. What's next? Wisconsin?" -HorseOnATreadmill

I feel pretty confident Fuente's fate was determined a couple games ago. The end of the first half against Clemson cemented it, the second half against Clemson sealed it, and the second half offense against UVA was just reinforced it.

I had to laugh when I got the "OUR STATE! OUR CUP". Hokie club email. When you lose to what should be the 4th/5th best team in the state, you don't get to claim "our state"

This has been a crappy season and I think it's time for a change.

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

Right now, an argument could be made that LU and/or WF are the class of the Commonwealth. Sadly.

VT '10--My avatar will flip, when things are right at VT again.

Rick Monday... You Made a Great Play...

Romanes Eunt Domus

Pretty sure WF is not in the Commonwealth
๐Ÿ˜ƒ

uva - the taint of the ACC

Yeah, but they have a better record against Virginia schools than any Virginia school this year.

Maybe I should've used a /s tag, earlier

VT '10--My avatar will flip, when things are right at VT again.

Rick Monday... You Made a Great Play...

Romanes Eunt Domus

Ya don't say. Wake owned the Virginia ACC Schools, that's all.

VT '10--My avatar will flip, when things are right at VT again.

Rick Monday... You Made a Great Play...

Romanes Eunt Domus

I'll counter this with even though I hate lolUVA, neither they nor we should EVER lose to Bibberty Christian academy.

If you play it, they will win.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used." -The BoD

Not sure. The Pitt loss was completely inexcusable. The other ones are pretty dumb to get worked up about because they were in close games against good teams. Every team we lost to will finish with a winning record.

I understand either decision but if you spend $10M ya better nail the replacement hire. If Whit doesn't he's gone. Retaining Fuente could potentially be better for his own long term job security.

There's zero reasons we should lose to Liberty. If you argue Liberty is really well coached, uh, maybe we should get a good coach.

They're a flat out good team. Sucks but, sometimes in close games against good teams things happen and you lose.

Can Fuente keep guys from muffing a punt 100% of the time? That's a discussion for another time but I don't think he can be held liable every time it happens

Edit - mis read comment

We, based on recruiting results, even as bad as our classes have been recently, should be VASTLY more talented. If a team with a lot of talent loses to a much less talented team, how can you say that isn't an indictment of your coaches? You're basically saying Liberty did a far better job developing their guys and far better job in terms of what they get out of their players (effort, discipline, whatever). It implies our coaches can't get out of our talent a better on field product than another coach with much less talent.

Had Fuente beaten Pitt Wake and Liberty I would have said he stays. 8-3 this year would have been a good year, and to be honest it's the year I would have expected after the reschedule. I probably would have expected a loss to PSU on the original schedule.

But that wasn't the case. Had we beaten Wake and Liberty and at least not been absolutely boatraced by Pitt I would have said he stays another year.

Sooo...what time is the Marshall game next week?

Yes for me. Y'all are some impatient bandwagon fans. If y'all were old enough when Frank first started, then y'all would have been calling for his head too.

Very different situation. VT was suffering from NCAA penalties when Frank took over. Not to mention, expectations were lower at VT than they are now.

Twitter me

We were over the sanctions when CFB went 2-8-1 in '92 (his 5th or 6th season). It was a different time, and CFB was forced to make significant staffing changes going into the '93 season.

Sanctions don't hit immediately; they hit a few season down the road.

But yes, it was a different time.

Twitter me

We were under sanctions in 87, that was 92. If sanctions had been the reason he went 2-8-1 the AD (Braine, I think) would not have forced wholesale changes to his staff.

I'm didn't intend to suggest that sanctions were the reason Frank went 2-8-1; I'm just saying that sanctions are a reason he got such a long leash - the others being that (1) he was an alum and (2) Most of the losses were close (four within a FG, one 4-point loss, and one 9-point loss) ; the only blow out losses were to #1 Miami and #10 Syracuse. Fuente on the other hand, has suffered a handful of blowout losses to .500-ish-level teams.

Anyways, the Fuente 2020/Beamer 1992 comparison is just not apt; and that's without accounting for the current-era's bias for immediate gratification. And while I don't see any coach getting 6 years to turn around a program in 2020, I could see Scott Frost, for example, getting some extra leeway after a bad win/loss record next year if he can keep games close next year.

Twitter me

I didn't make the comparison, I was just correcting the facts.

Yeah, but we were the best 2-8-1 team in the country. At least, that's what we used to tell ourselves.

I've been thinking about this recently. Unfortunately, Beamer was a different coach in a different college football landscape, it would be difficult to compare the 2 situations.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

Fuente in the post game radio "this is why you don't opt out"

Hokie Club member since 2017

Heard that too.

Meaning what? He's saying he doesn't thing players should be opting out? If so, I totally agree with him. What's the issue here?

"I play real sports, not trying to be the best at exercising..." - KP

Yes I agree with him too just interesting to hear him be emotional about it because usually he tries to not gleam any emotion with opt outs, transfers, etc.

Hokie Club member since 2017

I could ALMOST have been convinced to give him another year if he canned Corn, Shibest, and made some other tweaks, such as program access. Then I heard him talking about the TD before half being bonus points and saying you don't really try to score there unless you have the '85 Bears defense and I wanted to go ballistic while driving.

#MakeTheMove

I hate this so much about him. Havent been stopped all half but afraid to try and score again.

Danny is always open

Nope

Outside it's night time, but inside it's LeDay

No.

Too many instance of getting boat raced by bad teams. Duke, Pitt.

Too many loses against teams that should be easily beat.

The Head Coach is supposed be the Chief Problem Solver. Fuente has not solved anything, and has created more problems.

...question him as a coach, don't question him as a human being.

Fuente is the type of guy you want your son to play for, it just hasn't translated in recruiting. Real life Eric Taylor.

I honestly wished it worked out for him because he really does seem like a good person.

This is the exact part that makes it so unfortunate. He's clearly a good person and really cares about his players. He's just not getting the rest of his job done (recruiting, fan interaction, team is completely listless 2-3 times a year, gameday planning and decision making).

"That move was slicker than a peeled onion in a bowl of snot." -Mike Burnop

Fuente is the type of guy you want your son to play for

Maybe. He's extremely polarizing, even with his own players. There are guys who absolutely love him, and ones he seems to care the world about. Then there are others that have left the program without a high opinion of him. Perhaps it's recency bias, but I don't remember too many kids bad mouthing Frank on the way out. Also, they didn't have near the platform.

Either way, I wish it had worked out too.

I think its nature of the beast, if you're not playing or things don't go well for you (which is a big reason for people to leave the program) a lot of people tend to focus that blame on someone other than themself, rightly or wrongly. And plus now everyone is on social media, and everyone on the team has a platform to talk to the entire fan base about their frustrations. It was getting big towards the end of the Frank era but it wasn't what it is now. Just my $.02. Either way this isn't a question of if Fuente is a good guy or not, but what is the best way forward for the football program.

I think even most 22-year-olds understand that it's a bad idea to bad-mouth a legend, even if he's lost touch with the realities of running a modern football program.

Completely different beast with Fuente.

small group โ€” players, coaches, staff, family and god

That is a large part of his problem and why he is not cut to be our P5 HC. You don't concern yourself with the Virginia Tech institution or fans, at all? You don't live and bleed VT and orange and marron? "Wins and Losses are important and I get that," BUT.....???????? What are we here to do then? Is our baseline being slightly better than UVA each here and having "good kids"?

His connection to VT has always been in name, almost Buzz like. I have never felt he was more than a body coaching VT and its players rather trying to integrate himself as another face of VT and program leader. The comment epitomizes his fault of siloing himself to only immediate football concerns.

Counterpoint, if a head coach actually concerned himself with the opinions of fans, he would be a horrible head coach. Fans are insane people making wild assumptions with no information.

If the CEO of a company made big decisions based on the Amazon reviews of his product, he would be a terrible CEO.

Get Angry, Bud!

i agree with you to an extent. if a college football head coach is the CEO of a company, college football fans are a mix of customers and shareholders -- not just customers. It behooves the CEO to make decisions that placate both groups of people.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

I think you're reading way too deep into Fuente's comments.

His connection to VT has always been in name, almost Buzz like. I have never felt he was more than a body coaching VT and its players rather trying to integrate himself as another face of VT and program leader.

I think we were just spoiled by Frank. Not every coach is a missionary. Saban is a mercenary, and it's working fine for him.

Twitter me

Is Saban still a mercenary if he's been at Bama since 2007?

I bet he'd leave for more money. Frank and Bud are missionaries - both worked for well below their market value because they liked it here. Can't expect everyone to do that.

Twitter me

Not feeling it.

Tough call. It's a COVID year, and we were really hurting on defense for most of it. If VT had won some of the close games that we lost we likely wouldn't even be having this conversation.

I see improvements in the program, but worry about recruiting. Miami and UNC are improving. I think the team will be more complete next year.

I could see giving Fuente another year, but I'd like to see a marked improvement in recruiting.

No.

Fuente had a chance to get rid of the dead weight on the Staff (Cornelson, Shibest) and has failed to.

He cannot recruit well enough to.be successful at this level.

Without Herbert, this team wins 3 games Maximum this year.

Thanks for getting us the Cup back, goodbye.

Yessir, lets go! He's working on getting his guys here.

"What are you going to do, stab me? - Quote from Man Stabbed

This reads as tongue in cheek but I'm not sure

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

How long before Shane ends up back home?

SCHokie

I thought he just went home?

fun fact....that gif was 12 years ago today.

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

No. Hire a young guy like Elliott and then throw money at an OC like Chad Morris and a DC like Charlie Strong

While I would like this scenario you posted, the problem is the "Then throw money at....". As painful as it may be to hear, I just don't believe we have the resources to do this. I wish it were otherwise fellow Hokie.

Go Hokies!

Sounds great. How's the fundraising going?

When you tally up the new HC/assts' salaries and then whatever Chad Morris and Charlie Strong(!) cost, don't forget to add $10M for Fu as a parting gift!

People are living in a fantasy land if they thing VT has that kind of fuck-off money. We don't.

This is a business decision - and to fire Fu now would set this program back further than keeping him. NO coach will turn next year's team into a contender. Why blow $10M to watch some poor new guy cook with Fu's 3-star groceries and fall on his face?

I think Whit tells Fu: lose Corny & Shibest and let's see if we can make chicken shit into chicken salad. Flushing $10M down the toilet is simply not a fiscally responsible option for our athletic department.

You're the only ones that I can talk to about this, you guys.

The buyout isn't just stroke a 10M check parting gift. It would be paid out in installments. And I'm sick of hearing that our top end donors don't have fuck you money. Yes they do. Some people here have met them in the president's box personally. It just depends if they want to give him another year which it seems like they may.

Hokie Club member since 2017

THANK YOU! I see some of these comments and think to myself, do some of these Hokie fans never get out of the New River Valley!? My wife and I live in DC, and usually go to 1-2 away games a season because it's hard to travel to and from the Burg and find a hotel thats not in Roanoke. VT has some BIG money donors, you start to see the same people at different away games/Airports/hotels, etc. You're not gonna see them at Bull & Bones in the Burg but if you go to Nobu Miami when we play the Canes next year, a good chance you'll run into some Diamond Club Hokies.

Pour some Beer on it

Other schools read this comment and laugh their asses off.

Sure we have a couple of big donors. Every school does. Literally every school. But if you think we are some sort of fundraising behemoth, I have some long-standing, horrifying news for you.

We are not keeping up with the Joneses, donation-wise. We don't even know the Joneses.

You're the only ones that I can talk to about this, you guys.

the fact anyone thinks VT is swimming in cash is laughable...in 2018-19 we were 42nd in revenue.

we couldn't afford barry odom or chris ashe as DC this past off season. we couldn't find an extra ~500-750k/year for a better DC/OC but apparently 2.5 mil is a drop in the bucket now

The buy out is $2.5m/year, paid quarterly, until 2024. Let's assume that wealthy donors will be funding this buy out, and that this money will NOT detract from our current staff salary.

Right now our coaching staff salaries (not counting GAs, support, etc) total about $7m/year. Let's say that number increases 10% (I'm being very generous) and let's just round up it up to $8M for simplicity sake (I'm being even more generous).

  • HC costs $3.25M - The average FBS head coach's salary is $2.67 million, and 25% of FBS HCs (who work at schools that publish salary data) make at least $3 million annually. Fuente made $3.25 when he was hired in 2016, so let's the new head coach gets the same (again, being very generous here) - we now have $4.75m left in our budget.
  • DC costs $1M - I'm not sure why, but DC's were more expensive in 2019 than OC's were. If you check USA Today, you'll see that of the 10 highest paid assistants, there are 9 DCs and only 1 OC (Sark). Expanding to the top 15 highest paid assistants only adds 1 more coach (#11 Jim Chaney), but we have 3 OC's rounding out the top 20 (#16 Josh Gattis, #19 Kendall Briles, and #20 Tony Elliott)... Getting to my point now... a top 20 DC costs at least $1M
  • OC costs $750K - Chad Morris is making $735,000 per year at Auburn. If we want Chad Morris to make a lateral move, and stop working with someone he's been friends with decades, and then START working for someone who used to report to him... well, we'll have to give him a boatload of cash. I don't think Chad comes here; in fact, if we do in fact hire Tony Elliott, and Morris gets fired, I could see him going back to OC at Clemson. The other option here is that TE hires one of his subordinates at Clemson to be OC, and we can cut costs here.
  • STC costs $500k - I'm assuming this person is doing double duty as a position coach and STC, and using round numbers. Edit: looks like STC's aren't paid that much more than a senior position coach, so removing this from the calculation
  • 6 7 other position coaches split $2.5M $3M, averaging ~$430k/coach.

HOWEVER, there are three ENORMOUS assumptions I made that make this possible:

  1. Our coaching staff budget increases by $1M in 2021 (unlikely IMO)
  2. Our next coaching hire is willing to accept in the $3M-$3.5M range
  3. Fuente's buy out does not detract from our coaching salary pool (I'm somewhat confident this is true)

IF our next coach demands $4M, and our total coaching salary pool stays flat at $7M, then we only have $3M to pay 9 assistants, meaning that we will have to sacrifice at the coordinator level, or the position coach level.

Anyways, it's a very interesting conversation, and it will be interesting to see what route our new HC takes.

Twitter me

I think the special teams/position coach is generous. Isn't shibest one of the highest paid in the country and he's on 400-somethind grand?

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

You are correct. I'll update my post accordingly.

Twitter me

and he is insanely overpaid

Danny is always open

Didn't we basically have Odom signed, sealed, and delivered for the DC position until the question of money came up? I have a hard time seeing coaching pool increasing the year after a pandemic.

So there are two 'hints' I recall reading on TKP that insinuated we had Odom in the bag but couldn't seal the deal:

  • Coach Smithey insinuated (in comments, on this site, that I remember reading but can't dig up) that he was expecting JHam to be the guy all along. But then things changed right after Odom was fired, and he said something to the effect of 'it's not who we thought it was going to be, but if true, it's a big name and big get for the school.' Followed by some comments about how we're back to the original plan.
  • The second was a comment by LAHokie during the Baylor fiasco saying something to the effect of 'when Fuente learned that he couldn't afford to hire his old college he realized that VT wasn't committed to big boy football, and decided to try to leave'

I'm going off memory, and haven't put much effort in to digging these comments up; so please take with the appropriate grain of salt, and do please call me on my bullshit if I'm completely misremembering.

My guess (100% speculation) is that Fuente reached out to his buddy, asked him if he'd coach here, and Odom was like yea I'm in. Then Odom got a call from Arkansas and was like 'Hey Justin, Arkansas is offering me over a million, can y'all match that?'

Twitter me

There was a JUGS comment more recently as well

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

This guy is making a lot of sense. Business decision. 10 million. Next year sucks anyway. that's all assuming we don't have some loaded donor paying the buyout.

"I play real sports, not trying to be the best at exercising..." - KP

Texas fuck off money, no, fuck off money, most certainly.

@hokie_rd

This is a business decision

Did you hear Whit say multiple times that money was not a factor in the decision?

Hokie Club member since 2017

Yes we did. Doesn't make it true. Do you think CJF would be the head whistle in 2021 if his buyout was nil? No, he would not.

We are where we are because in hindsight, the decision by Whit to give CJF a massive buyout In his contract extension with no offset was a mistake. Nobody could have predicted COVID and the massive financial impact on the VT athletic program back then, so we just have to live with that mistake for another 2-3 years until things change. We have been irrelevant in the CFB world since 2013, what's a few more years of waiting? Basketball anyone?

VTCC '86 Delta Company, Hokie in Peru, Former Naval Aviator, Former FBISA, Forever married to my VT87 girl. Go VT!

It doesn't matter what I think. Babcock is in charge and knows the circumstances. Backcock said it wasn't a money issue in plain words. If you're saying that's not true than you are saying Babcock blatantly lied in a recorded press conference.

Hokie Club member since 2017

Money is an issue in this situation. Babcock himself mentioned the 12.5 million dollars pledged for football operations enhancements. If it was a free decision to release Fuente, he would be gone, rest assured. His contract has bought him 1-2 years of grace, let's hope that he uses it wisely and chooses to come out of his introverted shell and recruit some daggone four star players. Getting paid the second or third highest salary in the conference means you had better produce similar results on the field and in the recruiting wars. Otherwise, hasta la vista, nos vemos y adiรณs.

VTCC '86 Delta Company, Hokie in Peru, Former Naval Aviator, Former FBISA, Forever married to my VT87 girl. Go VT!

Nope, and it sounds like its a done deal that he will no longer be coach after this week

Sauce?

You're the only ones that I can talk to about this, you guys.

Jugs posted it in another thread on this forum a couple weeks back. The buyout has apparently been in process since last year and the money is there now. Come 12/16, we will see if that info is correct.

Cannot reveal.

Ask yourself this:

Would this game cost Bronco Mendenhall his job? If the answer to that is no, then the answer to this question is no. One game does not reflect a programs direction.

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

No.

One time a guy had an academic scholarship. That guy partied his ass off and ended up with a 65 average going into the final. He studied very hard though and made a 90 on the test. He thought he deserved an A. He ended up with a C and lost his scholarship. I guess Fuente and I have a lot more in common than I thought......

Last night was nice, but it shouldn't have moved the needle one way or the other. He still gotta go

21st century QBs Undefeated vs UVA:
MV7, MV5, LT3, Braxton Burmeister, Ryan Willis, Josh Jackson, Jerod Evans, Michael Brewer, Tyrod Taylor, Sean Glennon, and Grant Noel. That's right, UVA. You couldn't beat Grant Noel.

Nope. Happy for the players, but the head coaching was sorely lacking this season.

With this schedule and roster, no excuses for a losing season.

VT '10--My avatar will flip, when things are right at VT again.

Rick Monday... You Made a Great Play...

Romanes Eunt Domus

Since we are.going to suck the next few years regardless might be worth it from a pure entertainment standpoint from the elic meltdowns on this site and others...

I can imagine no more rewarding a career. And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worthwhile, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction:
โ€œI served in the United States Navy"

KCCO

No, and this result is literally what he does to raise these kinds of questions. Also no, it is not fronting $10mm though it's fun to try to act like VT is up against a wall. Even the $10mm would be doable, but the $2.5mm a year is the actual payout. If it were to get paid all at once it would be a lower number.

@hokie_rd

Maybe he would accept a 6 million right now and no lingering money.

While beating LOLUVa is requirement number one for this job, it is not the only requirement for this job.

He gone.

Warning- Filter lost.

"Look at this... This is just spectacular.... These people are losing their minds"

If Whit had already made up his mind that Fuente that Fuente is going to stick around, this obviously doesn't change anything.

If Whit had already made up his mind that Fuente is gone, I really doubt that this changes anything. Beating UVA is an EXPECTATION, not a BONUS. Before the season, our program expectations were probably something along the lines of:
Win 8+ games. Finish around 4th-5th (or better) in the ACC.
Bring in a top 30 recruiting class.
Get the Cup back.

This is a great moment, but the staff has still failed to meet most of our expectations this year.

Look, I know we are all happy about getting our Cup back, but the Offense (which is what, more than anything, Fuente was brought in to make better) is still a stale mess.

Save 2 big plays by Herbert and Robinson, this would have been a nail-biter.

We have not been able to move the ball inside the 30 all year long--when we get there we either get ridiculously predictable or just stupid (double reverse for -8 yds).

This offense cannot produce points without big plays, we are unable to methodically move the ball downfield despite having our best OL in years. We don't even play to our own strengths--nevermind considering actually trying to exploit our opponents' weaknesses. This Offense simply hasn't evolved since 2016 and its not fooling any decent DC anymore.

If Fuente did the other things well (Recruiting, PR, roster management), it might be worthwhile to force a change at OC, but the combination of his personality and its effect on the program, and his unwillingness to get rid of Cornelson makes him unretainable.

Thanks for the Cup and good luck at your next stop.

"Save 2 big plays by Herbert and Robinson, this would have been a nail-biter."

You do know that you can make this statement about 90% of all football games..... on all levels... Just saying...

Yes, for any individual game you can point to 3-4 plays that really changed the game.

Except that with the Cornfu offense it is a problem week after week after week.

Settling for 47+ yd FG attempts beyond too often all this season. Johnson has had Seven 50+ yd attempts in 11 games.

It's not a coincidence, look at our possessions last night. After the long pass to Mitchell, a horrificly telegraphed jet sweep that killed any chance of getting another first down, and later with a purely ridiculous double-reverse it hasn't worked a single time this year.

So while any game likely comes down to a few key plays, we habitually sabotage our scoring chances with stupid play calling--that's the point.

Yes.

They almost beat historically good Clemson teams twice. They almost won at Norte Dame. The bounce back after the Duke game last year was mind blowing. This was a tough/crazy year. Many teams that are more established than VT had worse years.

The 4 game losing streak was horrible, but really they outplayed Miami and Liberty, they just didn't quite finish. They didn't look outmatched against Clemson until garbage time. The totally bounced back and came back locked in and ready after the Pitt and Clemson games.

Stick with him things will get better.

When did he almost beat clemson besides the 2016 inherited roster?

Hokie Club member since 2017

Who was the most important player on the team in 2016?

J. Evans. Not inherited. Justin gave us a 10 win season in his first year. Turned it around where Frank had clearly faded. Team sucks now. Sure fire him. But let's not rewrite history as if Fuente hasn't done anything for the program.

"I play real sports, not trying to be the best at exercising..." - KP

Saying that I'm rewriting history because I said "inherited" instead of "95% inherited" seems like a bit of spin to me. JE was a great player and I'm forever grateful for his play but he was also surrounded by great players. The 2016 AP 1st, 2nd, and 3rd all ACC team did not include JE but included a lot of the talent around him. JE was a great player. Glad he went and pursued his dream, still hoping he makes it big.

Winning the coastal was great but let's not act like we put a banner up for that because we don't. And I don't believe in P5 quality losses.

In terms of fire Fuente: it's somewhat clear to me that Whit and the boosters are going to keep Fuente for at least another year. Whit and his top boosters have the most information on that decision so it is what it is.

Hokie Club member since 2017

He's had 5 years to turn into a good coach and instead he's leading a program that has fans trying to argue to save his job because he almost didn't lose to the likes of Clemson and Notre Dame. Mind you, one of those almosts is a 35 point loss, so I guess we should be happy it wasn't 70?

Also, paired with those almosts is actual losses to Wake Forest, Syracuse, Virginia, Kentucky, Boston College twice, getting punked at home by Duke, Old Dominion, and Liberty. And our biggest win? An opening season win over Florida State or West Virginia, two teams who weren't exactly world beating as the season progressed.

And our recruiting is horrible and getting worse yearly.

He doesn't deserve another year. Thank him for bringing the Cup back, but present walking papers this week. It's over.

"I have a PLAN. You just need to have a little goddamn faith, Whit. I just need. more. MONEY." - Justin van der Linde

So if we keep Fuente, max out at 6 wins for the next 5 years, but each year we lose 4 by a field goal or less, you are able to convince yourself we're a 10 win team because those losses were so close? What if we also have 2 losses per year that are by more than 35 points and one of those is to ODU, Liberty, or similar program?

That's a whole heap of almosts.

Also... Outplayed Liberty? What game were you watching?

If you play it, they will win.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used." -The BoD

He earned "another year" when he signed the extension with the huge buyout. He didn't earn it with the win over loluva. He got an extra year with the win.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

If the barometer for a successful season is to just beat UVA then sure but that's not what this program is about, we ain't uva where the cup is everything. That's a hard no from me and unless the cups all you care about it should be a no from you too

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

Nope, not in my eyes and not in most of the fans eyes, as can be seen on this thread.

However, Fuente will be back next year. Maybe only a blowout loss to UVA could've changed this, but even in that scenario it's doubtful. I don't understand how so many people can be so certain of his departure when the truth is literally right in front of their faces. This is a team that hasn't won the ACC in over a decade now. This is a mediocre football team, it was that way for years before Fuente took over and it'll be that way for years after he's gone. This isn't a program that fires a 5-6 coach in a season with COVID. We don't have that championship attitude anymore. I wish we were, but we simply aren't.

I'm not going to ramble on here. Plenty of deep dives into the state of VT Football culture have been done before. I want Fuente gone. Most of you want Fuente gone. But y'all are in for a sad sad off-season if you HONESTLY (not hopefully) think he's going to be looking for work this spring.

"I don't know how many years on this earth I got left. I'm gonna get real weird with it." -Dr. Mantis Toboggan

Fuente stays. I do not think this game was the deciding factor. Part of it is money, and part of it is this is a throwaway year with the virus. The offense has had more continuity than the defense, as Ham is new and had no preseason.

You could see the body language on the field too. Fuente knows he is coming back. Fuente has had a talk with Whit and is staying put.

Will Fuente be forced to dump Cornelson? I don't think so. Fuente is stubborn and loyal to a fault there. The guy should be canned. But Fuente will dig his heals in and defend him.

But Fuente will be gone end of next season.

I still do not know enough to answer. Rumors around here, with no sources that I am aware of, would have you believe the money has been raised and a quality replacement like Tony Elliot is on the way. If either of those two things are shaky, Fu will be coaching next year at VT. I cant stress enough that we are losing a shit ton of money this year. Even if the buyout is covered, we need to be able to put our best foot forward for the next staff.

I say 50/50 and if it turns out opposite of public opinion, people need to chill the fuck out.

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K

We stand to lose more money down the line if the program continues it's current trajectory under Fuente than it lost this year due to COVID.

This isn't a short term decision. This is a decision about making sure our cash cow doesn't wither and die.

"I have a PLAN. You just need to have a little goddamn faith, Whit. I just need. more. MONEY." - Justin van der Linde

It is Whit's long term decision. We do not know the facts. Nobody knows hoe much apathy will cost the program. My gut says that around here at least, apathy is being weighted too heavy and the Covid finances being hand waved away.

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K

The person saying Whit has the money is a source...

Is coronavirus over yet?

He should get another year. My expectations for this year were incredibly high but no off-season, no spring, no consistent roster the whole season means I call this year a wash. Yes other teams had to deal with it too, but every team didn't have to deal with a whole new defensive scheme. We saw the defense play well in spurts, especially later in the season.

That being said, the offense and kick return game were not good enough this year. I think fuente needs to fire corn or do something to get him some help with game planning and in game adjustments. He hasn't put together the solid offense we expected and hasn't done anything on the recruiting side of things to justify keeping things the way they are.

Your last sentence is the most important IMO. If things keep going the way they are, the talent disparity between us and UNC will be so big that it'll be hard to overcome.

Hokie Club member since 2017

Whit told Fuente when he was hired he didn't have to keep Bud as DC but if not he better have a damn good one. Same thing in this situation. Unless he has a home run hire up his sleeve JF isn't going anywhere.

It's funny how everyone said he was gone last week but now the trend is more folks think he should stay.

Just goes to show that we have severely lowered expectations when as long as we beat UVA we're happy. This cannot be the expectation moving forward.

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

JUGS pls come back and reinforce my confidence in TE coming.
#StillMakeTheMove

Vroom Vroom

I was just thinking the same. Amazing how we have one actual somewhat competent gameplan and suddenly certain posters are clamoring to keep around someone who spent 5 years proving he's in over his head. This week didn't invalidate everything we saw over the prior 4.

The clock management disaster against Liberty happened.
The second half meltdown against Miami happened.
The absolute disaster of a game against Pittsburgh happened.
The gutless decision to not even attempt a score at the end of the first half against Clemson happened.

And before that, the bottom 10 2019 recruiting class happened.
The bottom 10 2020 recruiting class happened.
The flirtation with Baylor happened.
The Sports Illustrated article happened.
The loss to Old Dominion happened.
The blowout against Duke happened.
The single carry for Herbert against UNC for the first quarter happened.
The loss to UVa happened.
The loss to Kentucky happened.

One win over UVa in a year where we finished the regular season with a losing record for the first time since 1992 does not invalidate the above.

"I have a PLAN. You just need to have a little goddamn faith, Whit. I just need. more. MONEY." - Justin van der Linde

The crazy thing is this:

And before that, the bottom 10 2019 recruiting class happened.
The bottom 10 2020 recruiting class happened.

Combined with our inability to develop talent is enough that he needs to go. There's no future for Fuente here. His ceiling is 7-8 wins now. Everything else you listed is just fuel on the fire.

I'm very happy he beat UVA. Decline a bowl invite, and move on. Hang our hats on a commonwealth cup win.

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

I think the poster above nailed it with the metaphor of having a failing grade in a class and cramming for the final to eek out a C for the course

Danny is always open

Dont forget barely scraping out a victory against Furman in 2019

Bleeding burnt orange and chicago maroon

And not even a very good uva team at that. Beating a bad team in a game they thought they'd win because we are also bad shouldn't save anyone's job

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

Hell no ........cant recruit, cant motivate players , it's been a shit show for 3 years.
He has shown us who he is . Hes not the guy who can take us to the next level.

Give him another year! Circumstances(Covid, new DC) made this season a throwaway from the start. It's crazy that any coaches are being fired during this season. I'll continue to show you LSU and PSU who both broke in new coordinators during this mess and also had shit seasons. Big difference is that they had 50 more 5/4* players than we do on their roster. Sure some other teams had "great" years by meeting or exceeded expectations but i'll argue it likely had more to do with being lucky. Get rid of Corny, let Ham get a full offseason with his Defense and run this shit back next year. If recruiting isn't back in top 25 and Wins aren't 8+ next year, then we can move on. This is also me expecting for this Covid thing to be more manageable by Spring Ball which may or may not be a pipe dream. GO HOKIES!

There's no glory in practice and lifting but without practice and lifting, there will be no glory!

Coach C and has been a member for 5 years and 1 month?

You're not fooling anyone, Brad

"I have a PLAN. You just need to have a little goddamn faith, Whit. I just need. more. MONEY." - Justin van der Linde

via GIPHY

That was dope but My offense would be way more productive than his!

There's no glory in practice and lifting but without practice and lifting, there will be no glory!

FYI David Clowney claims an quality control position with the Jets and is listed on their staff page as a Coaching Fellow:
https://www.newyorkjets.com/team/front-office-roster/

Also I would find it really truly hilarious if Coach C actually was Brad and he advocated to fire himself in the post above.

I respectfully disagree. Cornelson won't be replaced. Fuente had his chance to do that after 2018 and refused to do it. He has continued to defend him since then. Recruiting has been abysmal under Fuente pretty much the entire time he's been here. How one could expect that to change is beyond me.

Expecting Fuente to fire Cornelson and improve recruiting at this point is the pipe dream. If either of those things were ever going to happen they would have happened by now. It's too late for that. Fuente must go.

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

I disagree, offensive recruiting has been very good outside of RB. Defensively it's been terrible. The '20 and '21 defensive classes have shown a change is player type and while not overwhelming with highly rated guys, seems to have a ton of potential IMO outside of DT and CB. It's really to early to judge how good either class will be at this point. I'd argue development of QB and non playaction passing game has been his Fuente's biggest issue. I was thrilled to see tayvion catch 4/5 5 yard hitch routes last night, it's been open most of the season. I still say give him another year, this coming from someone who'd love to hire Tony Elliott. It's a different era but we gave Beamer a ton of time, hiring TE isn't going to be an overnight fix either, so give him 1 more year. I doubt we see many HC openings this offseason so TE will be there next year.

There's no glory in practice and lifting but without practice and lifting, there will be no glory!

offensive recruiting has been very good outside of RB

LOL wut? Are you serious Clark?

Our QBs can't throw the ball. Our wrs can't run routes. The best players on our team are a transfer RB and a criminally underutilized tight end. Oline recruiting and development has been good. I'll give you that. But to say offensive recruiting has been very good is objectively false

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

Quite serious, check the 4* offensive recruits. Thats what everyone is upset about right? Our recruiting ranking? Until last season it was moving up. QB development has been the biggest issue to me. We have no passing game outside of playaction. When your top routes are acting like your going to block the safety before turning up the seam for a deep ball, of course you think we can't run routes. Its the scheme sir! Maybe if our QBs practiced more than just playaction pass, they wouldn't look so terrible on obvious passing situations. That is and has been my biggest beef with Fuente/Corny from a pure football perspective.

There's no glory in practice and lifting but without practice and lifting, there will be no glory!

I disagree, offensive recruiting has been very good outside of RB.

If you included portal players, Fuente's recruitment profile looks better. There have been some significant contributors each and every year of his tenure.

Ut Prosim Ad Dei Gloriam

That just indicates a failing to bring in and develop homegrown recruits imo

Removing features to get people to sign up for your service is something EA would would do.

I'll continue to show you LSU and PSU who both broke in new coordinators during this mess and also had shit seasons.

And I'll show you something else LSU did in this calendar year:

I think you're actually helping his point.

Hokie, Hokie, Hokie, Hi. Tech, Tech, V.P.I.
Sola-Rex, Sola-Rah. Polytech- Vir-gin-I-a.
Ray, Rah, V.P.I. Team! Team! Team!

What I'm saying is that a coach can afford to have a shit season when their trophy case isn't empty.

How? bluehokie is pointing out that the two programs Coach C mentioned (PSU/LSU) have played at a different level prior to this season.

Under Orgeron, LSU is the defending champs with arguably the greatest team of all time. They replaced most of their offense and significant portions of their D because players went to the NFL. They also have a new DC with a drastically different scheme. They've improved during the year and will return most players next year. You can blame COVID and call it a wash, they were competitive before and will be again next year.

Under Franklin, PSU has 4 straight 9 win seasons, 1 B1G championship, 3 top 10 AP Poll finishes, recruits well, and has consistently been in the playoff picture. You can blame COVID and call it a wash, they were competitive before and will be again next year.

Under Fuente, VT has regressed in on-field play, struggled to compete in arguably the easiest division in cfb, lost to lower level in-state rivals, been embarrassed by conference foes, underperformed preseason expectations, had two losing seasons the first since 1992, and recruited poorly. Not to mention alienating the fanbase and having seemingly constant off field scuttlebutt. You cannot blame COVID for the downward trend of the program. We are getting less competitive by the year and we can't expect to be competitive next year.

Outside it's night time, but inside it's LeDay

Fuente turned around va tech. We had 7 wins in 2014 and 2015. He got us 10 in 2016 and 9 in 2017. These last 2 years we've sucked. But to say he hasn't done anything is simply untrue. In fact for 2 years he resurrected the program. Facts.

"I play real sports, not trying to be the best at exercising..." - KP

Assuming we win the bowl game we will have average 6.67 wins the last three seasons.

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

Pretty big assumption too considering Fuente is 1-3 in bowl games

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

And a second half collapse and comeback from being 0-4!

But at the end of the day it's 6.3 vs 6.7 wins/season without/with a bowl win lol. Still under 7!!

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

I didn't say he hasn't done anything. I said from his first season to now we have regressed.

Fuente turned around va tech

If this were true we'd be winning Coastal titles and be consistently ranked during his entire tenure. Facts.

Outside it's night time, but inside it's LeDay

He temporarily turned around Va Tech. Team has sucked for 2 years. Fire him. I'm ok with it if Whit thinks its the right time. I'm just trying to correct the narrative that he's been a total failure - and yes, there are many posters trying to give that impression. The guy was pretty damn good his first 2 years. Yes the trend line is in the wrong direction, which is why I'm open to a change. But its really only been 3 bad years.

"I play real sports, not trying to be the best at exercising..." - KP

You could probably say he turned VT around twice.

I'll continue to show you LSU and PSU who both broke in new coordinators during this mess and also had shit seasons.

Neither of those head coaches were near the hotseat last year Fu was up until that turn around. We've looked incompetent for large parts of 2 seasons in a row with nothing in the pipeline...

(add if applicable) /s

Just FYI up here there was some serious concern that after the Saquon/McSorely era ended and Moorhead was gone that the offensive production was going to be questionable. It's debatable whether PSU is going to get that level of production back with their current QBs, though they do have an extremely deep RB room. The OC is another question that needs answering and it'd be tough to say that they were going to get another guy as creative as Moorhead.

This was supposed to be a special year on the field. They're 5-6 and lost to Liberty. This was supposed to be a special year recruiting-wise. They have the 11th best class in the ACC. One game doesn't change anything. It's tempting to blame everything on COVID, but everything we saw this year is consistent with what we've seen the previous two seasons. This wasn't an outlier.

tempting to blame everything on COVID, but everything we saw this year is consistent with what we've seen the previous two seasons

Very well stated.

This is where the "its been an extraordinary year" excuse falls flat for me. Yes, it has been extraordinary but the problems and shortcomings with VT football have been the same.

Poor playcalling, lack of 2nd half adjustments, logic defying clock management, inability to secure nearly any of our high-value recruiting targets, poor media relations, and absent fan engagement. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Is there any scenario where Fu stays but we bring in new high $$ staff? Corn, Shibest, Hilgart and any other coach that doesn't recruit well.. gone. Replaced by bigger fish in those positions. Maybe we hire a better media PR person, maybe even a new Pete. Maybe we hire 10 more QA/Recruiters. Is there some scenario out there that keeps Fu around but revamps the program in a meaningful way? Just curious if everyone thinks there is no other way to get where we want to go except fire Fu?

[EDIT] TLDR: could we use that 10 mil on staff and program upgrades instead of on the buyout to get us back where we need to be?

I think a lot of us would agree with another year if he made those changes. But he so far has been completely unwilling to even consider making changes to his offense. When we brought in people to help him with some of those reviews/decisions (Kill), he ran him off for suggesting that they needed to be let go.

to the point where he was asked about possibly starting the process of making an adjustment this year, he scoffed and bristled with the reporter who asked calling it the most ludicrous thing he's ever heard.

So, no.... I don't think anyone should have faith that he's willing to make any moves here. His heels are dug in.

"I have a PLAN. You just need to have a little goddamn faith, Whit. I just need. more. MONEY." - Justin van der Linde

Fuente did not run Kill off - he took a job working for his best friend at TCU.

We scored 6 points in the second half

Hokies, Local Soccer, AFC Ajax, Ravens

Hey but that's an improvement from previous weeks! We should keep Fuente. It's obvious he's building something. You can literally see the progress from game to game

/s - as if I really need to clarify

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

Building a fat paycheck for himself

Hokies, Local Soccer, AFC Ajax, Ravens

Great win last night, but it doesn't change the fact that Fu and VT need to move on from one another. Besides having arguably three of the worst/most damaging losses in program history under his watch (ODU, Liberty, Duke beatdown, worst home loss since the early 70s), the biggest thing is we just haven't been very good in the ACC. Our ACC record under Fu is 25-19, which is good for about 57%. That is the definition of mediocre. Compared to 2004-2011, where we were about 81% in conference play. It just hasn't been good enough and what he was expected to do. Also with the way recruiting has been trending, we will be destined for the ACC basement for a while unless there's change. It's just time for both sides to go their separate ways.

I'm not sure exactly where I stand on this. This was supposed to be his year, sure... But... It's a complete oddity in the way everything has gone for the whole world. Throw in a defensive scheme change along with all the COVID stuff it makes it hard to assess that if one of those would have led to better results.

I watch sports and I know some stuff about them, but there are probably more experienced folks (hopefully) in a P5 AD that know more about this than I do and they will make the decision. If this was a normal year I'd say the Fuente Experiment failed, but given the circumstances I don't know.

Has JF done a great job...no...especially in recruiting...although Khalid was an awesome get. Having said that...there is no way that he goes. #1) The optics of paying him millions of dollars to go away when the university is getting killed financially is awful. #2) People are understating the effect of COVID had on trying to prepare every week. I think it was far more difficult than any of us can imagine.
#3) For everyone saying that he should go...I want to hear who is going to replace him. Can VT afford this person? What amazing coach is going to want to come here?

Illinois just fired Lovie Smith. CJF wife is from Illinois I think.....

There are connections to that state.

From a hokiesports.com page that needs to be updated:

Current Tech assistant head coach Galen Scott introduced Fuente to his future wife - the former Jenny Kabbes - while Fuente and Scott were roommates at Illinois State.

Jenny was an accomplished athlete in her own right as a volleyball student-athlete at Illinois State. The 1998 Missouri Valley Conference Newcomer of the Year was a first-team all-conference choice in 1999. After major shoulder surgery, sidelined her in 2000, she returned to the court to earn second-team All-MVC honors in 2001 and first-team accolades as a senior in 2001. She holds a business degree from Illinois State in addition to earning a master's degree in kinesiology and recreation with an emphasis in sport management.

If Illinois, Arizona, and Vanderbilt are willing to fire their coaches in a COVID year, then we can also manage to do it.

Outside it's night time, but inside it's LeDay

Think of it this way. If the transfer portal hadn't saved his bacon again and again, would we even be having this discussion or would people just be foaming at the mouth over his buyout.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. Should we have not used the transfer portal to our advantage? Getting some great transfers is a negative on Fuente?

The transfer portal is fairly new. Beamer didn't really use it cause it wasn't there. If Fuente didn't have it, would he have had the small successes that he did?

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

Thanks, you stated it better.

We should recruit better AND use the transfer portal to our advantage. We shouldn't be getting less than 50% of our production from recruiting.

Twitter me

Thanks, that is kind of my point. Most of his performance is coming from the portal not recruiting and as a result there are a lot of 1 and done years.

this makes more sense to me. Thanks for clarifying

.... most of his performance is coming from the portal not recruiting ....

I disagree but it is because I include portal transfers in my broader definition of recruitment. And why not? In both cases the team is trying to fill needed positions, coaches are involved in "selling" VT to the players (and their families), and the recruited players take up scholarships.

Rarely do freshmen become starters and, depending on position (example: lineman), it may take two or more years before they have added enough strength and mass to be significant contributors. I think you can make an argument, that makes them virtually identical to a portal transfers - without having tied up a scholarship until they are significant contributors. [That last phrase, until they are significant contributors. is an overstatement meant to emphasis value to the average fan in the stadium. In reality, there are Rudy-like characters on teams that inspire, motivate, etc., far beyond what the the average fan sees.]

Ut Prosim Ad Dei Gloriam

I'm sure all the folks taking pay cuts this year due to lost revenue from COVID (including CJF) are just trying to figure out what's going to happen to them. Glad to see so many Hokies openly pulling for their fellow Hokies to be jobless in a few days before Christmas. Really gives me a sense of pride in Hokie Nation right now.

At least getting rid of the Head Coach can be done on an installment plan.

Now, what to do about the other $45M the Athletic Department lost this year?

Ut Prosim (myself).

Oh come on. None of these guys will be jobless long. There's absolutely zero reason to play this card.

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

You're right. People have been beating the doors down trying to hire Tyler, Prioleau, Fuller, Gouveia-Winslow, and Iezzi from us.

Honest question. How many people in football coaching (or coaching in general at the collegiate level) have you personally known?

If they can't find jobs then they shouldn't have been here to begin with anyway.

And zero. What does that have to do with anything?

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

Iezzi blocked me on Twitter even though I've never tweeted at him or about him. I'm sure he'll be fine at a bigger school being that thin-skinned about fans ranting on the internet.

If you think VT is the only school that would employ these guys then you've got an answer to the original thread question right there

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

I empathize with them. That said, if stability is important to you, then professional coaching is not an appropriate career choice. TBH I'm much more worried about the guy who gets paid 1/50th of what Fuente makes who had to take a pay cut this year and and hasn't quite figured out how he's going to balance his mortgage and kids' college tuition bills. Or the owner of the restaurant that he used to take his wife to every Friday night. Etc. On the other hand, coaches who've been making well into six figures for years had ample opportunities to build a rainy day fund. If they failed to do that, especially in their profession, then that's on them.

"Those who jump into the void owe no explanation to those who stand and watch."
--unknown

That I May Serve (Myself)?!? Really??

Way to walk on water on your HIGH HORSE and trample the school motto while you do it.

Whether the coaches get let go doesnt impact the revenue shortfall number already experienced and if a better product on the field might be expected with a new coaching staff, you could expect an improved revenue stream in terms of ticket sales, merchandise sales, vendor sales and even donations (although I reserve judgement there as the Hokie Club has never impressed me with their marketing prowess). It would have been interesting to see what the revenue shortfall would have been if Covid had not been going on but the team performed as it has this season, but thats all moot.

If you did see improved revenue going forward then the loss of a few likely benefits the good of the greater number of people, as jobs would return, salaries could be readjusted upwards and growth could be expected in the athletic department.

Very on the fence about it. Coming into the season, I think most of us said that everyone gets a freebie this year because of covid. Obviously actually experiencing the loses has swayed some of those opinions, but this was a damn hard year for anyone to coach. Results should be taken with a grain of salt.

I actually really like Fuente, but the big red flag right now is recruiting. Last year was obviously a small class for scholarships, and recruiting is very wierd this year with covid, but holy crap we are doing terrible. I'm not sure if Fuente can turn it around, and he's not a good enough coach to win with the worst talent in the acc. No one is. If I'm Whit, I need a damn good plan from Fuente on how he is going to turn recruiting around if I'm going to keep him. And throw in a new oc while you're at it.

100% agree.

Some of the responses in this thread are unbelievable to me. This entire community was calling for heads to roll basically all season long. Now we beat a mediocre in-state rival that weve beaten 20 of the last 22 times and suddenly people have second thoughts. Jesus Christ is the bar REALLY that low..???

Last night after watching the players react along with the buyout combined with COVID issues financially, I definitely gave pause but not because I think Fu is the guy because I don't. I just thought Whit could leverage the UVa win as a way to keep him another year when things will hopefully stabilize on the money front.

Agreed. I do want him fired but the dopamine hit made me second think it for about 12 hours.

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

I dont know about Whit, but my aspirations for VT football are higher than "beat UVA"

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

You are completely underestimating the deserved backlash that will occur if Tech pays JF millions of dollars to not work there. This is not Michigan or Auburn...this is VT. And Whit knows it. And I am still waiting for someone to tell me who will replace JF...how much it will cost and what up and coming football coaching star is going to come to VT. If you are going to say JF has to go...you have to have a replacement answer. I think we have an above average coach here who can improve his coaches/recruiters and improve his relationship with his players.

Malzahn is now available. 8-4 in the. SEC should be about 10-2 or 11-1 every year in the ACC.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

The basketball team paid Seth to go away, then paid JJ to go away.

The basketball team paid Seth to go away, then paid JJ to go away, while still paying Seth to go away.

FIFY.

We were paying two severance packages and a Top 20 coaching salary (I remember it being Top 10, but haven't been able to find the article, yet) in basketball when we hired Buzz.

You don't do THAT and then whine about being poor when its time to make a similar move in the sport that actually makes you money.

"I have a PLAN. You just need to have a little goddamn faith, Whit. I just need. more. MONEY." - Justin van der Linde

That's what I thought but I couldn't remember for sure if they still had money left on Seth's buyout. No one complained because firing Seth and firing JJ were necessary.

That's your answer? None of those guys are much better than what JF was when he was hired. I can't believe how you can honestly think any of those guys would be upgrades...nor how you could reasonably pitch one of those plans to the University.

"Yes, Sir....we are going to pay $10M (or whatever the buyout is) to the guy that has the kids' best interest in mind, that is teaching them real life-long skills, and whom the kids work their asses off for...to leave. Then, we will pay ANOTHER $4M/yr (ish) for ANOTHER guy that we aren't sure about. Oh yeah...then there's the staff. Yes, Sir...that's my plan. And I hope it works"

No, his record isn't "acceptable" by our standards. And nobody knows that more than him. He will make changes, as he's proven every year. No, they will not be on the timeline that the fanbase expects them to be. But, this isn't Disneyworld...this stuff takes time, especially at VT where money does not grow on trees and is not necessarily close to a major market. We will get there, but not by playing the game that others get to play.

And please quit talking about access to the program. Fans don't really care about access to the program. Fans care about wins, a winning culture, and something to be proud of. No, there haven't been enough wins. But, when everything else is in place and there's some predictability, winning will follow. Those kids play their asses off every week for him, despite the garbage painted all over these message boards. Winning will come, have some faith in the guy that everybody seems to like..learning from "failure" is a real thing...be patient. College athletics is more than winning, and JF seems to have those priorities in order.

If my computer wasn't in the shop, I'd dissect almost all these points. I'm not really sure what sport/coach you've been watching but it can't be the same one as me. I'm very patient, but 5 years is enough time to make a judgement.

Outside it's night time, but inside it's LeDay

Has Fuente really done this much damage to what we think of our program? Within my lifetime VT has lost to UVA twice, only two losing seasons (both under Fuente), and winning 10 games was the norm for nearly all of the 2000s. I realize I'm young and I realize VT doesn't have buckets of money, but we are not some backwater program and need to start acting like it.

Lol the Fuente Warriors are back in full force with their chests puffed out after we stopped a 4 game losing streak. This is rich

Responding with a dick comment ain't exactly doing much here.

People should be allowed to have a different opinion without the keyboard mob laughing their asses off at them.

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K

IDK if he's earned it, but my hunch is that he's gonna get one more shot.

Hard, smart, tough.

Recap of reasonable checklist for HC
On the field goals:
Beat LOLUVa
Winning season/bowl eligible
Compete for Coastal Crown
Compete for Conference Crown

Off the field goals:
Top 25 recruiting classes
No major player issues (arrests, etc)
Clear, open communication with fan base
Energize donor base

Review this list and tell me if he earned another year by doing one of these after years of checking far too few of them.

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

Just adding context to the on-the-field goals.

Beat LOLUVa
4-1 record, the loss occurred with a division title on the line.

Winning season/bowl eligible
4 out of 5 years, and the 5th was 2020 where everything was messed up anyway.
Bowl eligibility was clinched before Halloween in 2016 and 2017, the final week of 2018, and the middle of November in 2019.

Compete for Coastal Crown
2016 - successful, title was clinched during the final weekend of the season by UNC losing (or by us beating uvanus)
2017 - eliminated by losing to division champ Miami in week 10 (Nov 4) // #2 in Coastal, two games behind Miami
2018 - eliminated by losing to eventual division champ Pitt in week 11 (Nov 10) // optimistic view of three way tie for #3 in Coastal but more realistically 5th, two games behind Pitt
2019 - eliminated by losing to division champ uvanus on Black Friday // #2 in Coastal, one game behind uvanus
2020 - n/a

Compete for Conference Crown
One ACCCG appearance.

(Edited to add more context for the Coastal competition metric.)

Maybe this is just me, but the standard should be more than "Competing for Coastal titles", I say if we're not top 2 in the shittiest division in Power 5 football then it's a failure. And that's happened more than once.

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

Dan Mullen had a really good comment about this a few weeks ago. He basically said 'Winning our division is all we can control at the start of the season, so that's the only goal we set at the start the season. When we win the division, the goal then becomes to win the conference. When we do that, the goal then becomes to win our bowl game, where ever it is'

I liked that idea.

Twitter me

This was always Frank Beamers mentality, and it worked.

Is coronavirus over yet?

Except in bowl games lol

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

The reason I think that consistently winning the Coastal should be the programs goal is because when you do that all the other things you want (beating UVA, competing for ACC championships, winning seasons, bowl games, being ranked, NY6 bowls, being in the CFP conversation) start to take care of themselves.

Outside it's night time, but inside it's LeDay

My on the field goals are cumulative. They can be read as failure to meet them gets less drastic as you go down or meeting them becomes more of a foregone conclusion as you go up.

Obviously we want to be conference champs every year, but we're not at the point where that is a reasonable metric for a coach's success or failure.

Beat LOLUVa. Bare minimum
Winning season/bowl eligible. Should definitely happen
Compete for Coastal Crown. Within 1 win of division champ.
Compete for Conference Crown. Get to the game, be competitive.

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

I updated my post above to expand on the Coastal Crown metric.

And then I started thinking again about the number of games behind the division leader.

In 2017, when Miami was 7-1 in conference, we were 5-3. A win over Miami would have put both of us at 6-2, and we would have h2h. So we were two games behind in the standings, but only the outcome of one game would have changed our standing.

In 2018, we were two games behind Pitt (they were 6-2 and we were 4-4 in conference). But, if we had won that game, both teams would have tied with GT at 5-3 for the top spot. Ultimately, it would have gone to GT after going through tiebreakers. So, we still needed two games to have gone differently.

He only had winning seasons in 3 of his 5 years

Was getting on to say that. He broke the nations longest streak of winning seasons. At risk now is the nations longest bowl streak.

No, not because of the win-loss record, but because he isn't being an active part of the solution to building the foundation-infrastructure of the program. Until he is out in front, hustling to sell a vision and plan for returning the Hokies to prominence, he has lost my confidence that he can turn this thing around. I liked some things that I saw- persistence and physicality- on Saturday. But, there are also ongoing issues. The offense had a chance to seal the game much sooner and the play calling became very predictable and risk adverse outside of the split zone read play pass to Mitchell. The decision to make Shibest so well paid while cutting Torrian Gray and Charley Wiles salary was in the spotlight, as special teams mistakes (fumbled punt, no readiness for the fake, penalties and poor blocking on returns, thank goodness they didn't have to punt more than once with Bradburn out) could have knocked the Hokies off the track multiple times.

I think there are some core piece in place- Strong, Pollard, Barno, Hollifield, Tisdale, and Conner on defense, and a good group of offensive line. But, with the one time transfer rule in place, a new head coach could patch the big holes that still exist and build a foundation for their vision very quickly.

It is a crazy new world in college football. The old tropes and rules don't apply, at least this year. If they make a transition, I think it will be much more difficult to navigate the transition when things get back to normal.

Five star get after it 100 percent Juice Key-Playing. MAN

And I take no joy in saying any of this.

Five star get after it 100 percent Juice Key-Playing. MAN

Looks like you called it a year ago when you said the following:

Fuente sniffed around Baylor as a power play to get more resources. Whit was pissed.

Baylor declined. Whit was faced with firing Fuente (price point $12 million) or keeping him until the buyout goes down.

Still, the bridge is burnt. Whit decides not to sink more resources into football until a new staff is in place.

Fuente realizes that those resources are not being made available, and backdoor messaging starts to reveal how shorthanded they are to put pressure on Whit.

I may be way off. Perhaps I am, and I should sell this script to Hollywood. But, I can't believe that, given what we know about how messaging has been controlled with this administration, that suddenly the director of recruiting is being approved to go out and make the administration look bad. Because that is ultimately what this is- messaging which makes it look like Sands and Babcock are not allocating appropriate resources to football.

IIRC, all that went down once Odom went somewhere else.

The physicality last night was great, Diablo and Conner were kicking ass and taking names.
It was nice to see the players bond with fuente at the end of the game. But yes, it is time to pack some bags. Damn shame, as I love this offense when they let it loose. It is death by a thousand cuts when they decide to throttle it down. Fuente is just not the CEO we need.

I think Babcock has made a decision (prior to the UVA win) not to make a change due to the pandemic. VT does not have SEC football money. I believe the administration likes Fuente. I hope Fuente has presented a plan for future improvement to Babcock.

Carolina Hokie

This hypothetical improvement plan has to involve Corny and Shibest not being here. Only way we can improve IMO

The biggest problem for our football program right now is recruiting - bigger than the coaching talents of Fuente, Corny, Shibest, and JHam (not enough data points) .

We need a full throttle investment in recruiting. Something new. A different way.

"I play real sports, not trying to be the best at exercising..." - KP

If a decision was made to keep Fuente another year, Whit would have already made a statement saying as much. Doesn't need to be ringing endorsement but you have put something out for recruiting purposes.

Depends what kind of "negotiating" is going on.

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K

Nine times out of ten, those "ringing endorsements" are made a few weeks before a coach is fired.

This thread is going to be very interesting to revisit next week. There are very confident opinions on complete opposite sides.

Personally I have no idea what will actually happen. I wouldn't be surprised either way.

I am very much hoping a change is made. Fuente has done nothing to elevate the program or inspire any confidence that he is on track to do so. I really wish he had worked out but it is pretty clear to me that he won't deliver.

I also firmly believe that failing to move away from him this year will, in the long run, cost much, much more than the $10mm it'll cost to send him on his way.

We'll see what happens. Might be an interesting week around here. I'm not particularly excited about all the "I told you sos" that we'll see from one of the two sides.

Try to be civil. Ultimately we're all Hokies and we all want the same thing, even if we disagree on how to get there or what the implications of various decisions may be.

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

Fuente can be both a good guy, and incapable of success in major components of his job. They aren't mutually exclusive. The latter is why he needs to go; it has nothing to do with the former.

And there's no reason to think that Whit won't bring on an equally good guy coach who also cares about his players. But odds are this new coach will be better at recruiting, and in-game management, and fan base outreach, and fundraising: all areas when Fuente comes up short.

Recency bias aside, beating UVA should not save Fuente.

And there's no reason to think that Whit won't bring on an equally good guy coach who also cares about his players. But odds are this new coach will be better at recruiting, and in-game management, and fan base outreach, and fundraising: all areas when Fuente comes up short.

Actually, I think the odds are the next guy will be bad at some things as well. It isn't like Whit intentionally hired a guy bad at those things. Doesn't change my mind that it is probably time, but coaching hires are hard to nail.

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K

I hear you - but Fuente happens to be below average, in my opinion, at recruiting, fan/program engagement, and selling his vision of the program to donors...to the point that he and Whit, just a month ago, were finally getting around to pitching changes to big-time investors. I mean, we all lost our minds when Fuente tweeted with some fans on a couple Friday nights earlier this year. We were starved for attention.

Odds are, his replacement won't be below average in all of those aspects.

I'm not sure Fuente is on any Good Guy of the Year Award watch lists

Outside it's night time, but inside it's LeDay

Its 50/50 for me. I do get the sense (albeit based on very limited info) that there is a disconnect between the fan's perception of Fuente and the attitudes of those within the program. If Whit, who by all accounts values relationships and integrity very highly, likes his head football coach, and that person is well liked within the program, then I suspect he's going to err on the side of loyalty. And I think the pandemic gives him the excuse to do so. If Fuente was a jerk and a charlatan, it would be different. Is that the right decision? I don't know. I definitely don't envy Whit.

No! To be successful you should compare yourself to where/who you want to be. Not the lowest common denominator.

So how have we fared over the last three seasons...? I took a quick (and painful)look into the past.

1 and 3 against ranked teams in 2020 with the win being NC State, who started what appeared to be the wrong QB. They were also ranked because there were only what... three P5 conferences playing at the time.

2019 - 1 and 1 with the close loss to ND and solid performance against Wake. We had a nice run in the second half of the season but the losses to BC, Duke and Uva override our marquee win over Wake. There I go breaking my rule of comparisons, but those losses are heavy!

2018. 2 and 2. Wins over the worst FSU team since football was invented and #22 duke. Lost to #24 BC and got smoked at home under the lights against ND.

We also lost our bowl games 2018 and 2019 against unranked opponents.

Point being, we havent really had a "big win" that gets the attention of the casual fan. The 2017 WVU win was awesome. 2016 overall was fun. But we lack the signature win that can jump start recruiting and have the band wagon fans digging back into their closet for some O&M gear.

As happy as I am about the Cup coming home, it's obvious to me that we are heading in the wrong direction as a program. When I was in school the saying was " the path to the ACC championship runs through Blacksburg." Looking back at our performance in ranked match ups reconfirms that it's time to #makethemove. We're nowhere close to legitimately competing as a top 25-30 team.

I think what goes unsaid a lot of the time, but is a major factor in how this plays out, is how Whit feels about what happened with Baylor. If Fuente burned Whit badly with those back channel conversations, and then had to go into major damage control mode when it all fell apart, and THEN made Whit be the mouth-piece for the whole thing, I can't imagine Whit took kindly to that.

Maybe there's a reason we haven't gotten the @hokiefootball graphic tweeted out from Whit stating his confidence in Justin for another year.

We have our first regular season losing record in literal decades following a season of our first losing record in once again, decades. Our offense actively tries not to score on some possessions and seemingly every second half of the season. We flat out aren't well coached. I have never and will never understand the whole "play to not lose" attitude this coaching staff has and it has absolutely bit us on the ass many times at this point. Our offense will be rolling and we're content to just try and kill time vs continue to score. Want to know how you maintain build a lead? Keep scoring then it doesn't matter if our defense has a few miscues. Settling for long FGs when the other team is getting TDs is absurd. That puts our already struggling brand new defense in a mega shitty position. Things have to change at this point it is year 5 and it is insane.

Apparently Whit has a meeting with the Board of Visitors this AM today.

This is going to be great for the ACC.

"I have a PLAN. You just need to have a little goddamn faith, Whit. I just need. more. MONEY." - Justin van der Linde

Vroom Vroom

Sorry, my fly on the wall isn't privy to the details or, she isn't telling me she does.

This is going to be great for the ACC.

It might not be HC related. If some of the other rumors are true, it might be about a potential payment structure change to HokieClub. Or it could be about both football coaches and HokieClub. Let's hope its both

Yes. I do not know the topic or if this was a regularly scheduled meeting or any details.

This is going to be great for the ACC.

No.

  • Don't want to hear covid issues. All teams pretty much went through same problems/issues as we did.
  • Recruiting has sucked and still sucks. (I think this is going to cost in the most in the long run if we don't cut bait)
  • Mind boggling time management and play calling
  • Closed team off to fans/media
  • Refusal to connect with former players (ex. 1999 team visiting against Clemson)
  • Past players bad mouthing him giving VT a horrible rep
  • Mass exodus of former players via transfer portal
  • Horrendous losses to inferior opponents
  • First losing regular season since 1992
  • Breaking UVA winning streak
  • Potentially killing our bowl streak (I don't see this as a huge issue as others do, but still something that's on his resume)

I cannot understand any reasoning in keeping him. As stated above, recruiting (or the lack there of) is going to kill us. If you think it's bad now, and you keep him, it's going to get a lot worse on the field. With that, you have continued fan apathy and donor support. Need to cut bait. We tried the Fuente experiment, really nice guy, but it just didn't work

Bleeding burnt orange and chicago maroon

If recruiting was as promised, I could understand, even support, the argument to keep him around. But it is not. There is nothing suggesting he can grow/change at this point. I think he will be a successful HC again, but I don't think it will be at VT.

Twitter me

I think he will be a successful HC again, but I don't think it will be at VT

I'm also very curious to see what happens with this coaching staff...

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

I think the former players issue is on the Athletic Department as a whole, not just on the coach. He should be involved, but I think there is plenty of blame to spread around in how we handle this currently. There is a lot of room for improvement based on the comments we've seen the past few years.

yes, this! All of it.

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

For anyone that feels like the win over UVA earned Fuente another year...may I present exhibit A:

The move to fire Fuente is not about the wins and losses in the 2020 covid year. It's about the past 5 years. Given the failures on the recruiting trail, how can anyone feel that things will get better under his leadership?

Shit, I'm willing to bet that even without covid, had this been a normal season, there's a good chance we finish sub- .500. As has been pointed out some of the L's are not from a lack of spring practice, or missing players due to covid, but in game coaching blunders. That's gonna happen year in, and year out with this crew. Finishing with a losing season simply follows the trend that VT football has been sliding ever since Fu took control.

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Say the full offseason gives us a three point swing from the additional practices and defensive improvements. That adds a victory over Liberty and Miami. That makes us 7-4 in a year when we were expected to be 8-3 at the worst.

And I think Frank had a better bowl record than Fuente at this point.

Assuming the full offseason wouldn't have benefitted our opponents as well?

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

It would've benefited our defense more than most by giving them time to actually learn a new scheme instead of just being tossed into the fire with half a preseason worth of prep.

The 6 blowout losses is the most concerning thing up there. When Frank's teams started declining, he would always say "we're just a couple plays here and there from winning these games." While it was definitely coach speak, there was also a lot of truth to it.

You can't say that about games you get blown out in. Three consecutive season that Fuente teams have been blown out by a mediocre ACC team.

Twitter me

you could argue that 31-17 loss to Syracuse in 2016 constitutes as a blowout loss to a mediocre ACC team as well...it's something that Fuente has always done

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

You have a solid points here. Fuente teams do not play as well in garbage time as Beamer teams did.

BUT it is crazy how they always bounce back the next week when everyone thinks they are done. The week after Syracuse, they beat Mitch Trubisky and UNC 35-3! After losing to ODU, they crushed Daniel Jones and a top 25 Duke team on the road. After getting crushed by Duke in Lane came legendary games against Miami and UNC. After Pitt they played great against number three Clemson for the first half. After Clemson, they crushed UVA.

I want the teams to take the next steps and be consistent. But man does it fell good when they prove that people wrote their obituary too early.

I would argue that is an indictment of the coaching staff as well. It shouldn't take an embarrassing loss one week to get fired up for the next game. Keep them fired up for every game!

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

UNC game actually happened before the Syracuse game in 2016. By the time we went to the Carrier Dome, the program had already become suffused with the helium of hope. We all know what happened next.

Your point is well taken, though. Fuente has shown his teams can be resilient. But a good bit of why they HAD to be resilient in the first place falls on him, with the weekly prep and situational coaching in game.

21st century QBs Undefeated vs UVA:
MV7, MV5, LT3, Braxton Burmeister, Ryan Willis, Josh Jackson, Jerod Evans, Michael Brewer, Tyrod Taylor, Sean Glennon, and Grant Noel. That's right, UVA. You couldn't beat Grant Noel.

Since 2012, we've had 4 6-6 seasons in 2012, 2014, 2015, and 2018.

If we added one extra TD to each game, our records would look like this:
2012 - 8-4
2014 - 11-1
2015 - 10-2 or 9-3 (there was one game we lost by 7 points.)
2018 - 6-6

In 2014, if we just added a FG to each game, we would have been 8-4 or 9-3.

wow, this really paints a pretty clear picture

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

This is an interesting exercise. If you added 1 TD to each game this year, the record would be 7-3-1 instead of 5-6.

Honestly, this is better. If we went 7-3-1 we wouldn't be replacing our staff (I guess I don't know for a fact that we're going to do it on Wednesday, but I'm assuming we are).

Twitter me

If we're handing out TD's, why stop there? If you add 2 TD's to every game this year, we're 9-2, and maybe a top 10 team!

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

This should be the bottom line. The ship is sinking and much of that is down to a coach whose recruiting is questionable, and who is so afraid to lose that he backs right into loss after loss.

Unfortunately, NJ Hokie's post up thread also has some validity. There are people who will feel that it's bad optics to get rid of him, in spite of everything. I'm of the mind that the VTAD could very well lose more money in diminishing revenues over time if he is kept.

21st century QBs Undefeated vs UVA:
MV7, MV5, LT3, Braxton Burmeister, Ryan Willis, Josh Jackson, Jerod Evans, Michael Brewer, Tyrod Taylor, Sean Glennon, and Grant Noel. That's right, UVA. You couldn't beat Grant Noel.

Everyone that says it's bad optics seem to be completely unaware that the money that pays for a buy out does not come from the university.

yes, but that is really kind of irrelevant to the statement.

It's like showing up to the food bank in a luxury car. It doesn't really matter if you bought it before things got difficult, people are still going to judge you based on the appearance alone.

via GIPHY

I am sure he is a great guy, its obvious his current players love him, but that doesnt tip the scales for me to want him back next year. When you get outrecruited by the likes of powerhouses Florida Atlantic, North Texas, Charlotte and ECU, you arent getting it done.

Well...he's not getting another year, so....there's that.

Edit: well, shit

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Also from Yesterday:

CJF was given another year, but he didn't earn it.

Re-thinking this, while my opinion is that CJF didn't earn another year....

I also always say the Bill Parcell's quote: "You are what your record says you are."

Fuente got another year so he earned it?

Fuente got another year. 2021 will determine whether he actually earned it.

HTHokie93

I'd say he was given another year. He did not earn another year. 2021 will help show us all if Whit's decision was justified or not.

The biggest problem with evaluating him this year is that there are a ton of asterisks. Between camps being canceled, players having to isolate, changing the way they practice, etc. All of this on the fly. If this was a regular year, I'd say nope. Given all the shit the team had to deal with I'm in the "he didn't earn it, but he didn't get himself run out of town" camp.

I'd be willing to give him benefit of the doubt if not for the previous three years of poo-poo and horrid recruiting. He dug himself a hole by not doing his job adequately in 2017, 2018 or 2019 and unfortunately for him 2020 was absolutely a year he needed to impress to hold the fans (a position that a good coach wouldn't put himself in to begin with) and he fell flat on his face in many ways. He absolutely didn't earn another year. He should have gotten run out of town. Fortunately for him this year was extraordinary and he's being given another chance. Unfortunately for VT, that is just delaying the inevitable. He has quite clearly proven, in his five years, that he is not going to elevate VT. He can't even manage to maintain the status quo (which Beamer was practically run out of town for because that wasn't good enough). VT will lose 5+ games in 2021 and we'll all be debating whether or not we should be paying a $7.5 million buy out on Dec 16 2021. When he's retained again, VT fans will realize that we're destined for the cellar and it will be a very, very long time before we have any hope of climbing out. VT Football died on Dec. 16 2020 and until there is a major shake-up at the very top there is no reviving it.

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

I agree with CareyHokie on this. He didn't earn it. 2021 will determine whether he earns another year in 2022

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

Honestly I'm just impressed that you made a comment over a month ago, and it has apparently been eating at you enough to come back and say "you know, I have been re-thinking this". This is some next level TKPing.

I tend to discount how much emotion effects my thinking right after a game, or after a season ending.

I'm probably wrong about 50 percent of the stuff that I think about.

If we are all thinking alike, no one is thinking.

If we are all thinking alike, no one is thinking

I agree, and you know what they say "great minds think alike."

๐Ÿฆƒ ๐Ÿฆƒ ๐Ÿฆƒ