LSU's last 5 recruiting classes -24/7 Rank

2, 5, 3, 7, 15...

If VT wants to compete with Clemson, get to the playoffs, win the ACC again- that is what it is going to take. The days of competing with an LSU or Clemson because you develop guys to play well as RS Seniors are over. You need horses. You need highly rated recruits. The correlation is as strong as you can get in terms of statistics. I was never a "recruiting rankings" guy until the last 5 years or so, where these services use technology to connect to players, video, camps, etc. It's pretty damn accurate now. Yes, there is still the element of "X player has an LSU offer, thus he must be good" thing, sure... but these rankings are more accurate than ever. Just look at VT- it was funny how our WR immediately improved when we signed Ford and Phillips- whom both actually played WR in HS at a high level. Wow!! imagine that. They were more productive than a "project" CB/WR/Athlete that we nabbed from Va. Beach and hoped he could play. Recruiting matters. Star rankings matter. Now more than ever.

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Fencer: Whines that I referenced rivals once because they still rate 2 star players because he doesn't like how I post on here, so he pounced on a "gotcha" internet win.

Also Fencer: DC tries to avoid predictable Fencer shitpost, so uses 24/7- his "preferred" ranking system because our project TE is a 3 star on there instead of a 2 star, and DC is trying to follow the "rules"

The board: loses and this thread dies of meaningful content quickly. Maybe that was your intent?

Couldn't help but find out if you'll stick to your guns or not DC.

The meaningful content of this thread is already marginal. You think people don't already know we need to recruit in the top 10 annually to compete with the Big Dogs?

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

LOL. I literally reference Rivals ONE TIME big guy. My guns? lol. Yeah, I'm a rivals shill- that's me. To answer your question, there is plenty of conversation on this board about how rankings are overrated and our 78th ranked class for 2020 won't be an issue. Plenty of conversation to the counter point of what I posted.

I think overall people just generally try to stay positive. Other than donating money, there's not much at all any of us can do to change the outcome of VT athletics. Most of us like VT for some reason or the other and when we discuss the specifics and make predictions for the future, the majority of us put on O&M glasses. Not be cause we're ill informed or we don't know what we're talking about, but because we really don't know how things are going to turn out and in the end just think it feels better to be positive rather than negative. As it stands, VT football pretty much sucks and has sucked for a few years. I think we'll be better next year, but this years recruiting really sucked. We marginalize it and downplay it because it plays into our love for VT and our aspirations for them to be better. Unless we can find a way to somehow use our collective knowledge to improve the program, there's not much else we can do. If a few people would donate $100M to the Hokie Club I think it would help, but it's likely not going to happen. But I'll try to stay positive in the meantime. I want VT to do good, but continually pointing out our shortcomings is not something I strive for. I do that to the teams I don't like.

This is a great post, the best one in the thread. Thank You

i bet you can't find one comment about our 78th ranked recruiting class in 2019 being a-okay.... because our 2019 recruiting class was ranked 26th nationally. Our 2020 class is 63rd. Neither is 78th.

I still don't even think there has been a strong stance on the recruiting class being fine -- the overwhelming tone on the board is that the recruiting needs to be better and that this class has to live up to its potential because it's a total dud if none of the developmental prospects pop. Having said that, we have the luxury of redshirting and actually focusing on that development rather than forcing players who aren't ready in early PT. The issue is that down the road we might be in another situation where we having underwhelming seniors and are forcing other young players into early PT

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Fixed the post to reference 2020, my fault. Plenty of excuses made for it though- it's a small class, HS kids are afraid of the beasts on VT's depth chart, we don't "need" any of the top 10 players from Va., because the state isn't what it used to be, etc. The point is that we recruit how we recruit, but we expect to challenge Clemson, and just roll our helmets out against UVA, UNC, etc. as if our coaches are unicorns.

You should consider also changing the "78th ranked" to "63rd ranked" if you still want to be right.

for what it's worth, DC, a lot of time people talk about stars in recruiting and missing out on highly rated virginia kids, you cite Joel Caleb, Nick Dew, and Holland Fisher (all VA high 4*s) as a counterpoint. I really have no clue what your actual stance is or if you just like to argue

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

My stance has been very consistent that we need to recruit Va. better.

fair enough, but previously you've stated

"The "we are signing more 4 stars" party line is tired."

2019 was not a good class unless multiple 3*s absolutely pop. Yes, I'd love to have added Antwaun Powell, Chris Tyree, and Malcolm Greene on top of this class -- all VA kids, all graded > 0.9000, and all headed out of state. But additional takes means additional attrition

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

If you're going to say we signed 2*s when according to the 247 composite we didn't but Rivals we did then I guess you use Rivals or you were wrong.

Now, if you're going to say every guy who's a 2* on Rivals is a 2* period then you're opening yourself up to being met with an overinflated amount of 4*s in the future just because ESPN hands them out to everyone.

I don't even disagree with the notion that we need to recruit better to win national championships, and I doubt you'll find anyone who'll argue that here.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

There is also a difference between saying that having one bad (and very small) class isn't make or break for the program and saying that recruiting doesn't matter. We've been recruiting about the same for the past ten or fifteen years. 2020 looks like a blip. If it's a trend, it'll be a problem.

Side note, always taking the worst faith approach to the arguments against you is really annoying.

The class will be 17-18 players. It's not that small.

It's very small relatively and it's not even a matter of debate. We're currently at 14 LOIs and 2 incoming transfers for what it's worth. Say we snag one more player on Feb signing day (paging Jahad Carter?) and wind up with 17 enrollees like you're saying.

Here are our enrollees by year going backwards from present: 23, 26, 26, 22, 21, 26, 21, 28, 19, 20, 24, 30, 25, 18, 21, 16

You have to go all the way back to recruiting class of 2004 to find a class with ≀ 17 players.

(edited for clarity)

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

The max is 25. 17 is not "very small", not being a jerk here, but very small is 8-9 players.

It's our smallest recruiting class in 16 years and first you say it's "not that small" and then you say it's not "very small". What I said was "very small relatively". When a class is ranked relative to everyone else, you have to judge class size relative to everyone else. If having 8 players in the portal (like we do) is somehow a drastic increase compared to a team with 4 players in the portal (like you seem to think), then a class of 17 compared to a class of 25 is even more significant.

plus, you can definitely take in more than 25 if you bring in an early enrollee and had a scholarship available the previous season. We've done this and other teams do this.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

I don't think anyone is arguing this fact.

Maybe we should start by breaking into the top 20 for the first time in 15 years.

Twitter me

Maybe we should start by breaking into the top 20 for the first time in 15 years.

Ugh. That puts reality into perspective very quickly.

I know this only makes it 3 years better, but our 2008 class was 18th.

Gobble Till You Wobble

You made it worse. 2008 was 12 years ago?!?

(add if applicable) /s

I think he's saying it was 18th ranked but 12 years ago

Can't spell DBU without Bud

I know he just made me realize how long ago 2008 was...

(add if applicable) /s

We need to recruit well to win? Would've never guessed!

This is like telling a sprinter the secret to winning is to "run faster".

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The team that wins will be the team that scores more points.

Right, we never talk recruiting on this site. And when we do, it's all deep deep analytical theories. My bad

So what should we do then? You are now the recruiting czar of VT. How do we improve? Who do you hire and fire? What processes do you change?

Get Angry, Bud!

The running game sucked. The whole operation. If the QB couldn't scramble, we sucked running the ball. Fuente woke up the next morning and hired Jerry Kill. He addressed it head on, he told Kill to fix the sucky running game. I sincerely hope that someone in Merriman realizes that recruiting sucks. It's not "ok or decent" - it sucks. The 2018 and 2019 classes have several 4 stars in them, but they are very unbalanced. Outside of that the "recruiting operation" at VT sucks. What would I do you ask? I would fire the director of recruiting, and I would replace him with a proven director of recruiting in the P5 and I would hold him and every assistant coach accountable for improving the operation. If you can't recruit, you won't be here long. That's what I would do. It's about accountability. Brian Kelly constantly fires under-performing coordinators. He also wins 10-11 games a year with a typically tough schedule. Nick Saban holds his coaches accountable. If they don't perform, they aren't there any longer. If Dabo's staff signed a 60-something ranked class, people would be fired and held accountable.

That's a really good answer. Thanks for laying out the ideas. I think this kind of answer is totally true. Accountability in all aspects of the staff is important. Because recruiting is essentially a zero-sum game, there are necessarily going to be losses, but minimizing those where you can is important.

If you were in charge, would a consistent recruiting class around #20 be adequate, or would you need to see recruiting in the #15-#10 range to keep staff in place? I probably wouldn't be firing people if we were consistently around #20, but that may be limiting to our long term ambitions.

Get Angry, Bud!

If I were head coach at VT, if we had consistent top 15 ish classes and got our share of the top 25 in Virginia, that would be my expectation. Not top 30 and getting shut out for the best players close to home. Nope, people would be fired in that scenario.

I posted the below in another recruiting thread before the season. While some things have changed (Bud and Wiles gone, some movement in rankings) the overall sentiment still stands. Wanting to own VA isn't going to get us anywhere near the type of classes you (and pretty much everyone else) would like. There's a reason why we are going to NC, GA, FL, and TX trying to get recruits.

Firing everybody on the staff because they don't recruit like Notre Dame and Bama is completely unrealistic too. We have nowhere near the cachet that those schools (and PSU and OSU and Michigan and LSU and Clemson and...) have. We're not going to get all the top players in this state because they can easily go somewhere else. There was a time when we could own the state, before Rivals/247/Hudl... That time is gone. And firing everybody to get great recruiters isn't going to fix everything magically (I'm looking at you Maryland).

Unless we either get a HUGE influx of money rolling into the Hokie Club or get a generational talent on the roster, things are going to be pretty similar to what they are now. We'll be in the 25-40 range most years, have some spikes into the Top 25, and probably play for the ACC Championship every few years as long as we aren't hiring new coaches all the time since we're firing them for not getting Top 10-15 recruiting classes.

VA talent IS down. NC talent IS up. And GA players ARE better.

Rivals 2020 state rankings - VA

VA - 1 5* and 7 4*

Rivals 2020 state rankings - NC

NC - 11 4*

Rivals 2020 state rankings - GA

GA - 4 5* and 31 4*

And 2021 is even worse. VA - 5 4*; NC - 11 4*; GA - 2 5* and 21 4*

You're right. We used to own the state. But that was a LONG time ago. With recruiting services, video highlight sites, the camp circuits, and travelling 7-on-7 football, the secret recruiting grounds we HAD are gone. Add to that that where we used to get our players isn't as talented as it used to be.

Look at the VA state rankings. 3 are from NOVA, 3 are from RIC, and 2 are from 757. Fifteen years ago, when we were at the height of VT football, there were only 7 5&4* players from VA. Of those, 1 was from RIC, 1 was from NOVA, and 4 were from 757.

Rivals 2005 state rankings - VA

I really don't get this continued living in the past sentiment on here. The only remnants from our 1, ONE, team that played from the National Championship are Bud Foster and Charley Wiles. Bud hasn't exactly been killing it on the recruiting trail for a while. And the current style of play isn't suited for what he likes to do on defense. How many D-line guys have we put in the NFL recently? Settle is the only guy on an active NFL roster. Until our D adapts, we're not going to get a real chance at getting a lot of the top talent up front. They'll just go play for anOSU, Clemson, Bama, etc.

Things have changed. Demographics have changed. Heck, none of the kids we are recruiting today were even alive when Mike Vick played for us. They haven't grown up rooting for the Hokies. They didn't go to school with the guys who were "Heroes of Lane". They have no idea what the "Terror Dome" even is. The fan base stops living for yesterday and wanting to have a stranglehold on an area of the Commonwealth that isn't producing talent the way it used to.

I agree with your sentiment, but it's not unreasonable to want our current staff to do a better job of getting top talent -- especially when those players aren't halfway across the country and ought to be easier to recruit. I'm not saying we have to go out and get the top 10 kids in VA every single year at the expense of every other state, but recruiting the top-end talent the state is producing shouldn't feel so futile.... recruitment of players like Malcolm Greene or Devyn Ford or Keandre lambert shouldn't feel like the Lloyd Christmas "so you're telling me there's a chance" scene.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

VT is not going to NC, GA, SC to get better recruits than they can land in Virginia because they can, no they are doing that because they have to. Don't believe for one minute that the top 10 players in Va. aren't good enough for us, so we are going elsewhere..lol. We are going after players in other states because we have to.

Whenever I read people saying that VT isn't recruiting VA as hard because there isn't enough talent I think of Spinal Tap saying Boston isn't a college town.

I think this is one of your better posts, DC. Recruiting at VT has just always seemed to be an afterthought, not a priority. Frank was great, but he hired his buddies and didn't hold them accountable when the product couldn't get over the hump. We were winning 10 games a year, but were constantly over-matched in big games, where talent really showed, so it was easy to justify not making staffing changes or modifying (and modernizing) our approach to recruiting. It seems like we replaced Frank with a very similar personality - someone who didn't want to get into the SEC recruiting game, and would rather keep employing his buds than win at all costs.
Yes, Fuente made staff changes this year, but we're >4 years in to his tenure, and VT has turned into his proving ground where he's learning how to be an upper-level P5 coach on the job, which was a concern of mine when CJF came, and he brought along a staff with not a lot of P5 experience. Recruiting is a different game here as compared to Memphis. We're still trying to catch up.

Hmmm, "constantly overmatched"? Swept aggies and huskers, split with lsu and osu, pretty much owned canes for nearly 2 decades, and beat clem a few times too.

Yes. I am aware of those handful of games - I was at many of them. I've also been at many of the 1-31 we are against top 5 opponents, Boise, Stanford, Kansas, etc.

I definitively stand by my wording.

Had the lead with 2 minutes to go vs. boise, ku was very winnable, stanford . . . well, we were outmatched in the 2nd half of that one. I hate this hindsight narrative that downplays some significant wins and over stresses some losses. "Constantly over-matched"? With a HOF Coach Beamer and Foster?! Wow!

We earned that loss to KU by completely abandoning the run in the second half after running it down their throat at will to end the first.

Stanford, we got flat out punked. Harbaugh pinpointed a critical weakness against the TE and waited until the second half to exploit it, so that we didn't have time to assess and adjust.

Boise was... Frustrating.

But it wasn't just those games. Miami 2005 was probably the game that officially knocked us off the national contention pedestal and we haven't recovered. That game completely trashed our national perception and we have been fighting it ever since. And to follow that one up by losing to barely-ranked FSU in the ACC title game did significant damage to us on the national scene that really prevented us from being taken seriously again. The embarrassment in Baton Route, and the choke against BC in 2007 only helped solidify that belief. By the time we played Boise in 2010, many were essentially on the 'this is your last chance to prove it to me' and we choked. And then lost to JMU the next game. By the time we lost twice to Clemson the next year, those losses were largely expected by the national media and we were an afterthought.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Nobody cares about a team that almost wins.

Agreed. Was watching the TSL podcast the other day where they were discussing best and worst games in VT history. It's painful to realize that the list of the latter is far longer than the former. Realistically our best big stage win was the 1995 Sugar Bowl. That was 25 years ago.

I don't know if those were "big games" though. More like the bowls games that were big.

I think Fuente knows the recruiting is weak. I think the Tapp, Jham, and other recent hires are a big move to try and get heated up on the recruiting trail - will see if it pans out. I'm hoping for an uptick.

"I play real sports, not trying to be the best at exercising..." - KP

I'm confused as to why people think this is an actionable answer in any way, shape or form. The programs that you're saying, apparently, that we should just hire folks away from have WAY more resources than we do. There aren't just proven directors of recruiting floating around. They have good jobs. That pay more than ours would. Ditto to assistant coaches. Alabama's athletic revenue is roughly double ours. Notre Dame doesn't have to publish theirs, but do you imagine it's much lower?

I really don't know what the point of this whole thread is, other than to vent your spleen I guess. No one is happy with having a 60 something ranked class. That being said: We were 26 last year. Sitting around 20 next year (admittedly, very early on in the process) with some big pieces lined up already. 4 last year in the ACC, 3 next year right now? Something like that. It should definitely be a priority, but do you really think that constant coach turnover is the way to accomplish that? You seem very worried about the transfer portal, and constant coach turnover would definitely drive folks to transfer. There just isn't an easy answer to this. There is no magic recruiting knob. We need more money, and then time for that money to do something. Or we could just all shout into the internet and hope I guess.

Not that I disagree with you here, but can you lead with this next time instead of going about some rant about how recruiting matters? Collecting your thoughts before you post can go a long way. Respect the signal to noise ratio.

How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Jet Sweep

This isn't directly recruiting but close to it.... it is beyond me how the Athletic Department hasn't modeled the Hokie Club after Clemson's IPTAY with the success that they have had. It wouldn't be very difficult to do and they could task students with designing it as class projects. Everyone wins.

I suppose a legit question would be, why hasn't Whit and the AD done more to get more $$$ flowing into the program? It is inefficient at best.

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

What exactly would you like to see copied?

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Marketing on campus and especially at athletic events, student involvement, alumni relations, CX/UX....

I dont know what CX/UX is. I am completely on board with alumni relations and not just for Hokie Club. It's awful across the board. As for other concerns the Hokie Club does those things. Student Hokie Club for example.

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Customer Experience and User Experience - the way your customers/users interface with, use, and experience your IT systems.

I know the student Hokie Club is a thing, but IPTAY is forced down your throat at Clemson, even as a student. Students literally were wearing IPTAY shirts around campus when I was going on college visits in the early 2000s. That's not the case at VT with the Hokie Club

Really though, in my opinion, our fundraising sucks...

One time I tried to give an annual contribution, but the UX (user exerience) was so poor, I couldn't complete the process.

Another time - and I can't remember the circumstances - I had to update my contact information, and it required me to get something out of HokieSPA (maybe my hold student ID number?). HokieSPA has the most secure password reset experience I've ever seen in my life. So I got frustrated / ran out of time and didn't finish the process...

But in general, I've been out of school for 11.5 years. Progressed through my career. I can afford to contribute, but I tried, twice I think, and the user experience was so tragic that I gave up. More importantly, I've never been contacted once in any capacity..

So yes, our fundraising operation is...poor.

For starters, do exactly what Clemson does with getting students into IPTAY. There's no need to reinvent the wheel. Clearly what they do works. You just mentioned Student Hokie Club and that's the very first time I've even heard of it.

Also, have the upper level Hokie Club management show some customer service / respect to those that aren't in the Hokie Club. We are, after all, essentially potential customers. There's still a bitter taste in my mouth after my interactions with one of the top guys fall 2018.

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

For starters, do exactly what Clemson does with getting students into IPTAY. There's no need to reinvent the wheel. Clearly what they do works. You just mentioned Student Hokie Club and that's the very first time I've even heard of it.

Push Clemson sports on their kids from birth. /s

But only sort of. I only lived in SC for 3.5 year but your a Clemson or USCe fan there if your born there. We don't have that in VA for a variety of reasons. I've talked to IPTAY employees and members they don't do anything special in terms of recruiting that Tech doesn't do in at least some part.

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Push Clemson sports on their kids from birth. /s

But only sort of. I only lived in SC for 3.5 year but your a Clemson or USCe fan there if your born there.

With the fanaticism that our fanbase has, I'd argue that Hokie sports is pushed upon them from an early age.

I've talked to IPTAY employees and members they don't do anything special in terms of recruiting that Tech doesn't do in at least some part.

So why are they so much more effective at getting students into their program than VT? Should be an even easier fix if it is similar.

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

It's not even close. Growing up in Richmond my close friends we're fans of: FSU, Miami, PSU, LOLUVA, VMI and Texas. I was the only Hokies fan in that group. Clemson also has had their booster club running strong for a lot longer and had a NC in football to talk about long ago to build upon.

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Clemson also has had their booster club running strong for a lot longer and had a NC in football to talk about long ago to build upon.

So we're just SOL because kids in Virginia might root different schools, we didn't win a Natty in the 80s and IPTAY has been running longer than the Hokie Club, yet the HC does a lot of the same things as IPTAY?

Sorry, I don't buy that excuse.

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

Again name something specific that IPTAY does currently that you think the Hokie Club should do. Not general statements.

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"advertise better"

"make it easier to give"

"promote a culture of giving"

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Get students involved immediately.

Don't have the higher ups in the Hokie Club be assholes to people who aren't in the Hokie Club.

Are those ok to start with?

Name legit reasons why VT cannot copy IPTAY. Not ridiculous excuses like kids root for five schools in Virginia versus two in South Carolina.

Something I've learned studying small businesses over the past several years is there isn't a need to reinvent the wheel. If something is working, copy it, make a few tweaks and go get your share of the market. Luckily, Clemson isn't taking our share of the market (Hokie fans). They are sitting there, waiting, some of them wanting to give, and the HC and AD are just losing out on this incredible opportunity with a very good model right there in front of them from a school in our conference, that went from a similar level football wise (maybe lower) in the 2000s and has turned into a monster. I don't have a bunch of specifics because I don't know all of the specifics that go into IPTAY but the 8 Clemson fans I watched the game with last night all were members and said it's just part of going there. VT should be copying it!

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

Students are involved the Hokie Club is right there. Every student is given a talk by one of its student members and employee support staff when school starts.

A culture of giving takes a long time to build and having that culture ingrained in your state is very important. Why do you think it's such a huge deal in the South and parts of the rust belt and not in places like VA and the west? It's culture. You can't change culture overnight or even in a few years it can take decades.

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So essentially Virginia Tech cannot copy IPTAY and make it successful because of the culture in Virginia? This sounds like a statement a politician would make.

Again, like the kids rooting for one of two schools, I do not buy it.

There is no reason to not give it a shot and see if using the IPTAY model can improve Hokie Club donations and membership.

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

What model??? That's the thing they don't have some magic button. It's culture of the fan base and wins. (Along with less sports to fund).

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Facepalm.

Yup, looks like we are shit out of luck.

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

Students are involved the Hokie Club is right there. Every student is given a talk by one of its student members and employee support staff when school starts.

It's not shoved down the throats, it's not pervasive, it's not everywhere.

For someone who didn't attend tech as a student, you have an oddly strong stance on "how it is" when it comes to what the student hokie club is or isn't doing and how it's being received.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Because I do research instead of just relying on personal experiences. Just because you didn't think they were not everywhere or shoving it down your throat there are students who think it was too much and the school focuses too much on sports.
That is why personal experiences is not data and an awful way to set policies.

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and does the research say it's working? you can talk about policy on a high level all you want but the proof is in the results and ours aren't there.

"Every student is given a talk by one of its student members and employee support staff when school starts."

Is this one of those "three minutes on stage in a packed burruss auditorium two hours into a three hour orientation presentation" kind of deals? Also I was a student for five years and never once heard from anyone in the Hokie Club -- so "every student" isn't true either

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Yes the Hokie Club and Student Hokie Club have grown in both total memberships and total dollars brought in. Yes both there AND when the freshmen are brought to Lane Stadium.

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great, twice at the beginning when everything else is also being thrown at them. it's not a consistent presence around campus. where's the table outside squires? where's the t shirts? where's the car magnets? where's the stickers for the water bottles or laptops?

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

They have been at every football game, every wrestling match and several basketball games prior to break giving out t-shirts. They have social media accounts on twitter, Facebook, insta and snap, again just because you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't t happen.

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"they have social media accounts"

The twitter hasn't tweeted since December 3rd. No mention of bowl game. No mention of men's basketball conference wins. No mention of holidays. No mention of school starting up again and the spring sports.

The Instagram hasn't posted since December 4th. The last post before that was OCTOBER 2018. Two full football seasons with not one post about it. It follows 279 accounts. It has 384 followers. There are 30k students on campus.

Just because "they have social media" doesn't mean they're doing it well -- they're objectively not. Can you just acknowledge for once that student engagement by SHC could be done better instead of defending them at every turn?

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Of course it can be done better but not a single actual suggestion has been made as to how. "Do what IPTAY does" isn't real. What a actual concrete solutions for a student run Hokie Club to help them grow? I know their current President was actually down in Jacksonville for an internship this entire semester so he wasn't doing too much.

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Well for one -- don't let one student's internship run the whole thing into the ground. Constant πŸ‘ contact πŸ‘and πŸ‘ engagement πŸ‘.

For two -- actually be active on social media. You say they're doing all this stuff, why aren't they posting about it? Why aren't they regularly retweeting the official sports and athletics accounts? Why do they only follow <300 accounts? There's 30k students on campus!

Gen Z more than anyone should be social media savvy. give them a leash that lets them push the boundaries on sarcasm for a little for humor but not cross any lines, have them follow and engage with as many students as possible on social media. Like posts. Comment. Be visible.

Do way more IG giveaways -- "follow, tag, three friends, and repost to your story and you can win chipotle for you and nine of your best friends!"

ig is the biggest social media platform for college students right now and the account is terrible. The twitter is a little better, but still not great! 1500 followers -- there's 30k students on campus. Why aren't they retweeting Dax and Hooker? etc etc etc etc

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

From the movie 'Better Off Dead' (on skiing the K12)-"Go that way, really fast. If something gets in your way, turn.!"

From the movie 'Meatballs' (advice during the intercamp Olympics)-"Got any advice for me Tripper?';"Yeah try to jump really,really high"

Which reminds me of the best motivational speech(also in Meatballs)-which kinda sums up this thread LOL

Morty: Hey, gang, come on! Look it, just `cause we're losing doesn't mean it's all over.

Phil: Cut the crap, Morty. I mean, the Mohawks have beaten us the last 12 years, they're gonna beat us again.

Tripper: That's just the attitude we don't need, Phil. Sure, Mohawk has beaten us 12 years in a row. Sure, they're terrific athletes. They've got the best equipment that money can buy. Hell, every team they're sending over here has their own personal masseuse. Not masseur. Masseuse. But, it doesn't matter. Do you know that every Mohawk competitor has electrocardiogram, blood and urine tests every 48 hours to see if there's any change in his physical condition. Do you know that they use the most sophisticated training methods from the Soviet Union, East and West Germany, and the newest Olympic power, Trinidad Tobago. But, it doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter! I tell you it just doesn't matter! It just doesn't matter!

The group: IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER! IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER...

Tripper: And Even...and even if we win...if we win... Ha! Even if we win. Even if we play so far over our heads that our noses bleed for a week to ten days. Even if God in Heaven above comes down and points His hand at our side of the field. Even if every man woman and child held hands together and prayed for us to win. It just wouldn't matter because all the really good looking girls would still go out with the guy from Mohawk cause they've got all the money. It just doesn't matter if we win or we lose. It just doesn't matter! It just doesn't matter! It just doesn't matter!
The group: IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER! IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER...

From the 2018 VT-uva game-"This is when LEGENDS are made!"

They had to recruit like this AND land a transfer Qb who turned into a player nobody thought he'd be.

You wanna know how meteoric Joe Burrow's rise was this season?
I didn't even realize this was his second year at LSU.

No, I *don't* want to go to the SEC. Why do you ask?

We don't love dem Hoos.

you develop guys to play well as RS Seniors

Counterpoint: Joe Burrow

LSU is not in the playoff without him.

I agree with your point that recruiting better will lead to better results, but player development and time in the system cannot be ignored.

Whatever. It was one bad year.

Seasonal Brew means High ABV for football season and standard the rest of the year.

yeah, joe burrow is a transfer so that doesn't really apply

He was not a 5 star recruit and was a senior (not sure if he ever took a RS). Point being that LSU, even with all of their top-notch recruiting, relied on a senior QB this season and rode him to a natty and a Heisman trophy in the middle of a trend of starting Freshman 5 star QBs.

Whatever. It was one bad year.

Seasonal Brew means High ABV for football season and standard the rest of the year.

Yes recruiting matters. Especially up front on the defensive line. I wonder if Ohio State said Joe Burrough leaving meant they have too much attrition. He was only a 2 star though so...

He was a four star.

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

My bad - referenced Kirk's comments last night - shouldn't have taken his word of course.

No one can figure out what he meant by that haha. You're not alone.

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

Since Ohio State has 40 NFL draft picks on their roster, and one of them getting busted for weed doesn't kill the whole team and locker room, I doubt it. I doubt OSU has "too much attrition", no because their former Hall of Fame coach could manage a couple players leaving for the NFL early and not imploding the program after a loss to a CUSA team. But yeah, totally the same scenario as VT.

Missed my sarcasm apparently - my bad I should have been more bold.

Wasn't even a take at Nebraska. TWICE. Oof. About makes ya sick for their fanbase.

Amateur superstar and idiot extraordinaire.

While recruiting does matter, let's not overlook the fact that Coach O made the gutsy decision to hire a new OC. Coaching matters too.

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This thread is going to go nowhere fast. Thanks for the interesting statistics DC. To the victors go the spoils. The old chicken and egg....nature v. nurture.... blah blah blah. Sorry, I haven't finished my morning coffee yet.

JP

I want Tech football to be better. I want Tech recruiting to be better. But if your goal is year in year out top 10 recruiting classes then I think your expectations might be the problem, not Tech football.

Gobble Till You Wobble

No question it takes elite recruiting to compete at the highest level today. Every 4 and 5 star recruit doesn't always live up to the billing, but you've got to like your chances with a roster full of those guys. And the top teams are just piling on the depth. They convince talented guys who could play anywhere to come and ride the bench for a few years because of the log jam of talent and wait their turn for the spotlight. Top recruits want to play with other top recruits at a flashy name program. It's basically peer pressure.

I've seen a lot of people saying that VT can compete with lower ranked classes as long as the evaluations are strong and we are landing our top targets consistently, regardless of rankings. This is similar to what a Wisconsin does. They don't have great overall recruiting rankings, but they have a definite identity and recruit guys that fit the mold. With top-notch coaching and a hard nosed identity like that, they can win a lot of games over teams with lesser or equal talent, and occasionally over more talented teams with lesser coaching. But when they go up against teams with elite talent and coaching (OSU), they lose that battle 9 out of 10 times.

I really don't think it's possible under the current landscape for VT to match what the top teams in CFB are doing. I think our best case scenario is to emulate what a Wisconsin does and be an annual contender in the conference with NY6 bowl appearances most years. Maybe we find the right QB and catch fire and make a playoff run again, but I think that is going to be more rare than the norm. Whereas you know what you're getting when you face Wisconsin, win lose or draw, I don't even think we are close to that level yet. VT is still trying to find its rhythm and identity under Fuente. We are now in the midst of a significant defensive overhaul. And until we have some continuity at QB for more than a year and really get this offense going, VT will continue to be one of the most maddeningly inconsistent teams in college football.

Well this might help.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Is that...okay? Are these dudes going pro? Seems like that violates some amateur rule.

If it ain't orange, it better be maroon...and if it ain't maroon, it better be soon!

They are going pro now.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

I'm guessing he is going pro, so since it was post game it just kills his eligibility and doesn't hurt LSU

That's Justin Jefferson. Nuff said.

No, I *don't* want to go to the SEC. Why do you ask?

We don't love dem Hoos.

If anybody still thinks big time college football has anything to do with student athletes and amateurism anymore, you are sadly mistaken. No way to compete with the absurd amount of money (both clean and dirty) that surrounds big time college football.

Notice how OBJ gave the cash to the LSU receiver who *isn't* coming back next season. No harm, no foul.

No, I *don't* want to go to the SEC. Why do you ask?

We don't love dem Hoos.

I don't see how anyone can dismiss this as "no harm, no foul." Would you say the same if wealthy boosters approached recruits and said, "come to my school and if you win the conference, I'll pay you $5000 in cash the second you play what is assumed to be your last game- even if you haven't actually turned pro yet"?

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Interesting premise there that's (1) unquestionably illegal and (2) completely unrelated to what actually happened.

No, I *don't* want to go to the SEC. Why do you ask?

We don't love dem Hoos.

I'm extremely confident that it's unquestionably illegal for a booster to hand players wads of cash for free immediately after they play their final game. Honestly I don't see OBJ's actions as being significantly different from the scenario I proposed.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

One's a major recruiting violation with premeditation, and the other is an act for the camera?

It did later come out that OBJ was passing out fake money, so it becomes a moot point anyway.

No, I *don't* want to go to the SEC. Why do you ask?

We don't love dem Hoos.

I'm not going to disagree that handing out fake money for attention is ultimately "no harm no foul" but I certainly don't agree that a booster handing out wads of cash to players who are simply eligible to declare for the draft (i.e. prior to their announcement, signing an agent, or submitting paperwork) is perfectly fine.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Great topic, very valid in today's landscape.

If it ain't orange, it better be maroon...and if it ain't maroon, it better be soon!

I wish I could be positive about this, I just don't see VT ever recruiting at that level especially not consistently. If we do, it'll be nothing short of a miracle.

Threads like this crack me up. Not because of the topic of the thread, but the reaction to it.

Our recruiting isn't up to snuff if our goal is to win conference and national titles. It just isn't. Clemson is a major, major road block to any of that kind of success, and the only teams who have beaten them in the past 3 years are ones who have teams consisting pretty much solely of Top 5 recruiting classes. But bring this up, and its a whole bunch of "oh but we already know this" and "oh yes its this comment again" and my personal favorite "how much are you giving to the HC to make this work". Oh, and throw in the dc as OP angle, and lets add in a little bit of ad hominem for spice. Mmmm, delicious.

DC is right on this one. We don't recruit well enough to accomplish the goals we have set for ourselves. Hard stop. And until we make significant improvements in this phase of the game, we will continue to either fall behind or wallow in the muck of mediocrity while our peers get it together. And don't look now, but some of those peers who have put together elite level recruiting staffs now exist in our own division in UNC and Georgia Tech, so its highly likely our ability to contend at the divisional level could see a similar setback in the coming years.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

You speak like we, on this board, have ANY control over what happens in recruiting, and anyone who doesn't shout into the void about how dissatisfied they are is somehow complicit in poor recruiting efforts. What do you want US to do? Because no matter how hard you get us to yell, nobody will be listening.

Get Angry, Bud!

So because we have no direct control over the situation, just shut up and take it like a fan, huh?

that's the kind of saying that gets people to disconnect from the program and sever any little financial support that might have been left.

If you ask me, nobody did by the way, but I'm going to share anyway, this is the kind of post we need to see flooding all social media discussions around the program. Our recruiting sucks. We were sold a bill of goods with the Fuente hire that we would put a major priority on making our recruiting better, and so far, they haven't delivered. In the meantime, we've watched Clemson become a thoroughly dominant program nationally, watched Virginia beat us and make a NY6 bowl, and watched up scrape by to 8 wins with one of the worst schedules we've ever played since joining a major conference despite having a roster of experienced players. The heat needs to be tuned up on this staff to finally start showing results or to get the fuck out of Blacksburg.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

I'm saying that the complaints have been aired and are well understood. We all know the state of the program, have some differing opinions about what may be the best solution, but at the end of the day, consistently repeating a complaint that has been heard isn't productive.

And I'm not speaking about the program really, either. I'm talking about on this board. Being repeatedly told that the poor performance on and off the field is a result of my "not taking this thing seriously" is frustrating, both in its repetitiveness and false nature.

Get Angry, Bud!

Not everything about VT is going to be roses and sunshine. Sometimes, things don't go well, and when they don't, they need to be discussed. Its creating a false facade to try and hide those conversations because some people don't like negativity when that negativity is more than warranted. In fact, having those conversations and airing those grievances on these kind of forums might lead to the same kind of changes that need to be made.

We just went 8-5 with one of the softest schedules we've ever had. If this happened 10 years ago, people would be justifiably furious and calling for coaches to be fired right now. The fact that the narrative has switched to 'maybe we shouldn't be so negative, its annoying to read' kind of shows how accepting we have become of being mediocre.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Quit equating my dislike for repeated complaining with accepting mediocrity. Just because I don't stand out on the street and yell at people to not drive drunk all day doesn't mean I accept drunk driving. Its just that my position and personal influence don't allow me to affect the overall statistics in a meaningful way, so I choose to focus my time on other matters.

I'm really tired of being told I am a bad fan and it is my fault VT is where it is.

Get Angry, Bud!

He's sort of right, though. Whit doesn't care what the average VT fan is saying on a message board. He listens to the big money donors. It sounds like things got pretty hot for Fuente this year, but he was able to salvage a really bad situation AD and cool some of that down for now. If we had gone down to Miami and had our doors blown off, I honestly think a major move may have been made. But Fu is Whit's guy and as long as we are winning just enough to keep his seat cool and the big money happy, that's what will drive the decisions. I think some good changes were made on defense with respect to recruiting, but I'm not sure enough was done on the offensive side of the ball. We are doing things Fu's way and unless he completely fails this year, I don't expect much to change realistically.

I understand your point and the point of this thread is to express dissatisfaction with the status quo. And that by doing so we send a stronger message to Whit that we are not satisfied. But what action are you actually trying to evoke? Lets say it works, and Whit forces Fuente to totally revamp the staff with an emphasis almost exclusively on recruiting. I am legitimately asking, is such thing possible? With our budget could we hire a staff that would significantly improve our recruiting? If it doesn't work out though, Fuente gets run out of town, and then who do we replace him with? What decent P5 coach is going to want to come to a school with high expectations and modest resources where the athletic director is micro-managing his job? Its not as simple as Whit snapping his fingers and forcing a change. Personally, I think Whit is doing a decent job right now finding the middle way. Sure we're not where we want to be, but there are reasons to expect improvement next year. If we don't meet expectations then, I do think Whit will become more active.

I think you need to recruit top 10 to be a natty contender but the difference between say ranking 25 or 40 seems insignificant

Hokie Club member since 2017

Doing some research now for a potential TKP article on recruiting ranks in the CFP era. What I'm seeing so far is you don't have to recruit in the top 10 every year to compete at a high level...but you better be damn close. The Wisconsin's and Iowa's and those guys, they lose post-season games.

Oklahoma is another great example.

We all know it was those snazzy new Locker Rooms that brought LSU to the top.

The more money spent usually equates to a better recruiting class.

This graph is taken from a good article breaking it down.
https://watchstadium.com/this-is-how-much-it-costs-to-land-one-of-college-footballs-top-recruiting-classes-07-24-2019/

Interestingly enough. VT came in at #40 in recruiting spending and landed Fourteen 4/5 star recruits. That's more 4/5* recruits than 23 schools that spent more than VT. (LOLuva was #27 with only One 4/5* to show for it) So it shows our coaches are doing more with less. Imagine what they would be able to do with more cash.

So here's the good news. We have the power to change the program's trajectory with our wallets. So we can post hand wringing comments about how we demand better, or we can create better.
We can blame coaches for being crappy recruiters and sit on our pocket books, or we can put these guys in a position to win with the recruits.
Maybe if we get VT into the top 15 of recruiting spending, then we can start making top 10 recruiting class demands.

FOSTERS: Australian for defense

The correlation is as strong as you can get in terms of statistics.

No, it isn't. If it was, Alabama would have been playing probably Georgia or Ohio State and FSU and Florida wouldn't be 93rd and 107th respectively in rushing.

If your point is we are more likely to be a playoff contender if our recruiting improves, I agree. Nothing that happened last night offered any new data on that front.

The RS senior thing has been dead for awhile. What you need now more than anything are a really good QB, a really good DL, and a lot of speed.

No, it isn't. If it was, Alabama would have been playing probably Georgia or Ohio State and FSU and Florida wouldn't be 93rd and 107th respectively in rushing.

You're literally cherry picking 'rushing' in this case, as Florida had a great team this year (finished top 10), and picking an outlier in FSU.

Of course I cherry picked; that's my point.

The presumption in the OP is based on cherry-picked data and then a leap in logic that accuracy of ratings is based on the championship outcome.

Look at the teams that have been in the playoffs... then look at their recruiting rankings over a 4-5 year period. The correlation is a strong as you can find in any statistics.

The flaw in the logic is the size of the net that is being cast. Your claim is that rankings are "pretty damn accurate", so statistically, you can't ignore the bycatch...the data points that don't fit the narrative. And despite their gaudy recruiting stats (you know, the accurate ones), OSU, OU, and LSU ALL failed to recruit their top QB in those collective classes.

Again, no one is arguing the need for talent.

The top teams in college football year in and year out with very few exceptions, sign top recruiting classes. The first round of the NFL draft has overwhelmingly more 5 star players than walk ons. Sam Rogers and the occasional NY6 season for Iowa does nothing to prove otherwise.

That's moving the goal post. And a Sam Rogers red herring does not make your argument any more sound.

Either ratings are "pretty damn accurate", or they aren't. If Texas and FSU and Alabama all sign similarly rated classes, and the FSU and UT players suck, the fact that Alabama is great does not make 247's ratings accurate. IF anything, it makes Alabama's ratings accurate.

Top teams sign highly rated classes because ratings are more influenced by offers, than offers are influenced by ratings. Nick Saban doesn't care what 247 thinks. But 247 cares a lot about what Nick Saban thinks.

I would be happy simply winning the worst division in P-5 football for starters. We can worry about recruiting with and subsequently competing with the likes of Clemson after we do that consistently.

Is coronavirus over yet?

But winning the Coastal won't necessarily increase our chances of better recruiting nearly as much as better recruiting will increase our chances of winning the Coastal.

"Sooner or later, if man is ever to be worthy of his destiny, we must fill our heart with tolerance."
-Stan Lee

"Never half-ass two things. Whole-ass one thing."
-Ron Swanson

"11-0, bro"
-Hunter Carpenter (probably)

I guess all I'm saying is at this point we can't even win the Coastal, which makes us near the bottom of P-5 football programs... I'm not sure any other discussion is relevant right now (not a knock on the OP).

I couldn't care less about recruiting with the big boys until we actually start competing in and regularly winning the horrible excuse of a P-5 football division that we're in.

Is coronavirus over yet?

The days of competing with an LSU or Clemson because you develop guys to play well as RS Seniors are over. You need horses.

We have horses. They just happen to be on treadmills

The days of competing with an LSU or Clemson because you develop guys to play well as RS Seniors are over. You need horses.

We have horses. They just happen to be on treadmills


So you are saying "we're running fast but in place"? /s

From the 2018 VT-uva game-"This is when LEGENDS are made!"

So you're telling me that the national champion is really good at recruiting? Big, if true.

Easiest place to win in all of college football. When their administration has invested in a quality coaching staff, they are elite. Even with average coaches (Miles) they won a national championship. They have elite homegrown talent who want to stay instate, and can cherry pick select players from Texas. They just never could find a quarterback, and that reflected getting retreads and boners as OCs. Enter Joe Brady for one year, and suddenly they are shredding folks.

I am telling you, if they can figure out how to keep that staff intact, they are going to be really damn good for a long time.

Five star get after it 100 percent Juice Key-Playing. MAN

Always had talent just an archaic that didn't favor their playmakers. Glad to see them get a championship. Will make the SEC more interesting for years to come.

Can't spell DBU without Bud

boners as OCs

hehe.

Always had the kind of talent VT would struggle to land, haven't always had the investment in coaching (cough Gerry DiNardo cough)

Five star get after it 100 percent Juice Key-Playing. MAN

I believe that Joe Brady signed a 3-year extension to remain with LSU. If he can attract top flight quarterbacks and the rest of the staff pair the quarterback with playmakers at wide receivers and tight ends, protect him with an elite offensive line, and a bell cow running back or two, Alabama will no longer be king in their division.

Alabama and Clemson are in enviable spot of being able to "cherry pick" top flight recruits due to their on-field and recruiting success. It also helps that, in Alabama's case, there is a deep, storied history, and Dabo was able to successfully pitch the "All In" mantra.

LSU, on the other hand, like Florida, have ridiculous amount of talents in their yard, but have hard time winning consistently. So, if Coach O can continue the momentum he gained, LSU is going to be scary good, and dethrone Alabama.

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Joe Brady headed to the NFL. Probably the Panthers.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

30 years old and won a Natty at the college level.

Guess he's getting out before the NCAA sanctions for OBJ handing out cash post game. /s

Virginia Tech will never consistently recruit top 10 classes in football.

The average of those LSU classes was the 6th best in the country.

That isn't happening in Blacksburg, ever.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

So is the point of this thread to complain that we, as supporters of VT football, aren't doing our part?

While that's certainly true, I expect that if we looked into it, we'd see improvement since Whit Babcock got here, and since Fuente became our coach.

Another observation: Whit knows some changes need to be made to our donation system. He's made some changes, and is in the process of making more. I do think it's fair to make specific recommendations. If we're going to compare ourselves to Clemson and LSU, it needs to be within the context of attempting to adopt their best practices.

The only defense I have of this year's class is exactly what Fuente has already owned up to. He said he started slow on guys and couldnt catch up once he realized there would be more scholarships available. I felt like he was admitting he wished he had over recruited. But, recruiting is like the restaurant business in a way. It takes exponentially more good relationships to heel a single bad experience. I dont think Fuente wanted to load up on non committable offers because pulling out fractures relationships.

With all that said I honestly think about 20th ranked recruiting class is our ceiling unless we catch lightning in a bottle to really impact perception and momentum. We can keep recycling coaches thinking that will fix it, but odds are it will stay the same or get worse. All our good things are from the this is home mantra. That goes out the window if we start playing musical coaching chairs.

"If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?"

Better recruiting is likely to result in better seasons. That's a scoop. Better hold a TED Talk.

I am not sure whose goal it is to win a national title because I've not heard that from Fuente. But if that is our goal then we have to fire Whit because he has failed to get donations up to the level we need. (I think Whit has done well for VT). How many people are in the hokie club? 10k? 65000-5000 visitors - 10k students leaves ~10k for staff, family, etc, and 40k is an easy number to work with. Each buys 4 tickets means 10k hokie club members. So 10k football season ticket but members. the ones thay really want to spend money on football.

That 10k needs to give $2000 to cover recruiting costs to get better classes, however historically, the teams at the top of recruiting have always been there.

Teams that will almost always recruit better than us because they are the premier programs in College football. (no real order)

1) OSU
2) Alabama
3) Michigan
4) Notre Dame
5) Texas
6) Oklahoma
7) FSU
8) Florida
9) Clemson
10) Southern Cal
11) LSU
12) Oregon
13) Penn State
14) Georgia
15) Texas A&M

Top 15 class we've pulled a massive upset that probably compares to 95 sugar bowl or OSU win.

So to get a top 20 class we are competing with UNC, Miami, rest of SEC(minus vandy), Mich St, UCLA of they get their act together, Washington, Wisconsin, Nebraska and probably a couple other schools that have had success and can get some good recruits but not great recruits.

So it's super competitive to get top 20 because their are 15 power program teams that people want to play for even if willie taggart is coaching them.

This a 1000 legs

I am the heartbeat of Blacksburg. A fortress built out of stone but made with champions.

You need those rankings if you want to compete year in and year out like the Bamas, Clemsons, LSU, OSU, etc. But that will never be VT football. Any of yall hoping for us to get there are hoping for a fantasy world to develop. We are a team that should hope for a title contending team once a decade. That's our goal. Recruiting needs to improve to even get there, but it doesn't need to be top10 consistently.

These posts are so little value add. No shit getting the best players matters. VT wants to do it, if they could wave a magic wand and recruit top 5 every year they would. NO COACH DOESNT WANT THAT. VT is never going to be like clemson. No money, resources, brand etc.

LSU's budget works differently than VT.
LSU football makes 2mil... it stays with football.
VT football makes 2 mil... the university gets it and tosses some back to football.

That's why LSU has a Natty and a shitty library and a meh university but sleeping pods for football players.

CFB isnt a collegiente sport it's a business and VT (rightfully so) doesnt want to be in the business of football they are here to support the university.

The coaches will forever be at the mercy of that and they will do everything they can to win and get the best players so can we please stop having these reactive posts about "stars matter" and "if we want to win we gotta recruit".

Coaches care, fans care, university doesnt and shouldn't and the money just ain't there.

Done ranting

Keep calm, Gobble on