VT's questionable losses since 1993 (and more)

I took a look at every loss since 1993 (not including 2020) where VT either:

  1. Lost to a team with a losing record
  2. Lost to a team with a winning record only because they beat VT (e.g. they were 6-5 but if VT won it would have been 5-6)
  3. Lost to an unranked G5/FCS team

UPDATED:
Added wins for teams that:

  1. Won against a P5 team with a record equal or better than VTs
  2. Won against a P5 team that a equal or better records after throwing out the VT game results
  3. Won against a ranked G5 team

UPDATED 2:
Added games in which we played a 10 win team. Since people were concerned at the lack of 10 win teams we have beaten I added every time that we either beat a 10+ win team, or lost to an 11+ win team. The reason for the difference is that take 2017 we had beaten a 10-3 Miami then they would have been 9-4 and wouldn't count as a victory over a 10 win team.
I also added totals to the Bad losses, Good wins, and 10 win chances. In 27 season, we have had 34 chances to beat a 10 win team. So approximately 1.25 times a year. We are 10/24 in games against 10+ win teams. In the last 9 years we have had 10 such games.

Year VT Record (conf) Bad Loss Good Win Potential 10Β Β Β Wins
1993 9-3 (4-3) WVU 11-1
1994 8-4 (5-2) BC 7-4-1
1995 10-2 (6-1) BC 4-8 Syracuse 9-3
Cincinnati 6-5 UVA 9-4
Texas 10-2-1 Texas 10-2-1
1996 10-2 (6-1) Miami 9-3 Nebraska 11-2
1997 7-5 (5-2) Miami U. 8-3 Syracuse 9-4 UNC 11-1
Pitt 6-6
1998 9-3 (5-2) Temple 2-9 Miami 9-3
WVU 8-4
1999 11-1 (7-0) FSU 12-0
2000 11-1 (6-1) Miami 12-1
2001 8-4 (4-3) BC 8-4 Miami 12-0
2002 10-4 (3-4) Syracuse 4-8 Marshall 11-2 Marshall 11-2
UVA 9-4 Miami 12-1
2003 8-5 (4-3) Miami 11-2 Miami 11-2
2004 10-3 (7-1) NC State 5-6 Miami 9-3 USC 13-0
Auburn 13-0
2005 11-2 (7-1) FSU 7-6 WVU 11-1 WVU 11-1
2006 10-3 (6-2) Wake 11-3 Wake 11-3
2007 11-3 (7-1) BC 11-3 BC 11-3
BC 11-3
LSU 12-2
2008 10-4 (5-3) ECU 9-5 GT 9-4
Miami 7-6 Nebraska 9-4
BC 9-5
Cincinnati 11-3 Cincinnati 11-3
2009 10-3 (6-2) Nebraska 10-4 Nebraska 10-4
Miami 9-4 Alabama 14-0
GT 11-3
2010 11-3 (8-0) JMU 6-5 FSU 10-4 FSU 10-4
BSU 12-1
Stanford 12-1
2011 11-3 (7-1) Michigan 11-2
2012 7-6 (4-4) Pitt 6-7 GT 7-7 Clemson 11-2
Duke 6-7 FSU 12-2
Rutgers 9-4
2013 8-5 (5-3) BC 7-6 GT 7-6 Alabama 11-2
Maryland 7-6 UNC 7-6
Pitt 7-6
Miami 9-4
2014 7-6 (3-5) ECU 8-5 anOSU 14-1 anOSU 14-1
Pitt 6-7 UNC 6-7
Miami 6-7 Duke 9-4
BC 7-6 Cincinnati 9-4
Wake 3-9
2015 7-6 (4-4) ECU 5-7 NC State 7-6 UNC 11-3
anOSU 12-1
2016 10-4 (6-2) Syracuse 4-8 Miami 9-4 Clemson 14-1
2017 9-4 (5-3) GT 5-6 Clemson 12-2
2018 6-7 (4-4) ODU 4-8 FSU 5-7 Cincinnati 11-2
GT 7-6 Duke 8-5
Pitt 7-7 UVA 8-5
Miami 7-6
2019 8-5 (5-3) BC 6-7 UNC 7-6
Duke 5-7 Wake 8-5
Pitt 8-5
Totals: 28 42 34

We have seen this 28 teams in 27 season. Even if you take out the losses to Miami U, and ECU then it's still 25 times in 27 season. On the whole there are two outlier years, 2014 and 2018. However, those both came in the last 6 seasons, so it is understandable for those are depressed about the state of the program. Our best streak of no bad losses is 3 years (1999, 2000, and 2001) where two of those years we had the best player in college football. The only other streak we had was 1993, and 1994.

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Comments

Thanks for doing this. I know this isn't really doable, but Id love to compare this to other teams.

Twitter me

It would be hard to compare to most teams because we're the only team that went to bowls every year in that time, and while I'd argue that a winning team should beat a losing team, a 5-6 team losing to a 7-6 tem isn't a bad loss.

We had 9 in the 4 years leading up to Beamer retiring.

We have had 8 in Fuente's first 4 years.

That's 17 disappointing or just outright bad losses in the last 8 years, according to this metric, and we have already added another this year. That's really not the kind of performance you expect out of this program. Not at all.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

There are only two years with more than 2 losses, which those were the programs worst two years, the difference is only a game vs tulsa and a game vs a 10 win Cincinnati.

Other than those years, it really is what is expected out of this program. But I really think this shows how bad the 2009-2011 recruiting classes were. And how its tough when you lose 90% of your defense to the NFL and don't have great depth due to transition. From the 2014 and 2015 classes we had 9 defensive guys left early before the 2018 season. I think all but 1 played in the NFL and the other was at NFL camp. Only blue blood programs can recover from that.

It really is clear how those recruiting classes, particularly 2010-2011, signaled the downfall of the program. We had borderline P5-level talent on offense in 2012-2013 save a few bright spots. It is interesting how Beamer's staff picked up recruiting in his last few years of coaching. Looking back, we landed some really talented players in those years who formed the nucleus of those 2016 and 2017 teams. Had Beamer made a better OC choice when he shook up the staff in 2013, I wonder how differently his tenure may have ended. That 2015 team I thought was a few healthy players away from being a 10 win squad. We saw what happened in 2016 with an impact transfer at QB and that Beamer nucleus around him. Ford, Phillips, and Hodges are arguably the most productive WR corps in school history.

Pitt 7-7, perfectly balanced as all things should be.

I think you could add more context by adding another column with 'big wins' (maybe wins over teams with a record greater than or equal to ours? Idk, you decide). My guess is that you'll see a disappointing trend over the last decade.

Twitter me

There were a good number of those that stood out.

EDIT: you are ruining my sleep ....

Sorry bout the sleep, but thanks for the info! Question - I think you listed some extra wins on here?

  • FSU finished 2018 5-7, but we were 6-7
  • Miami finished 2009 (and 2016) at 9-4, but we were 10-3 and 10-4 those seasons
  • UNC finished 2014 6-7, but we were 8-5

Twitter me

By the criteria I choose, If we didn't play FSU they would be 5-6 and we'd be 5-6 (ignoring bowl eligibility and the conditional Marshall game) So they were only a team worse than us because we beat them. So this is a good win for that team because it was a win for a team with equal record.

EDIT: if you don't do that then most of these win go away, when you're 10+wins you ften don't play any one with a better record

Makes sense, thanks!

Twitter me

I have a theory that isn't exactly measurable, but it's a theory nonetheless. VT is a program a lot of programs wanted to be not even ten years ago. 10 wins every year and always a contender for the ACC championship. Heck, we entered the top 5 every year from 1999-2003, then again in 2005, 2007, 2009, and 2011. When teams play us, I think they still think of those teams, so it's a little extra motivation. When we beat Nebraska twice back in the late 2000s, it wasn't like we were beating Tommy Frazier and the corn fed bulldozers that blocked for him, but it was still a great win nonetheless. I remember when Beamer's teams started fading in 2012, every televised game consisted of the commentators talking about what a landmark win it was for whoever was beating us. There's a reason Narduzzi and Clawson look so animated when they play us. They really think it might elevate their program of that beat us.

Marshall University graduate.
Virginia Tech fanatic.
Formerly known as JWillHokieAlum.

Exactly: See Vt over anOSU...

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

In my eyes, the slogan for VT Football since I've been a fan is

"Never 4-8, but also never great."

Every time we get some momentum as a program, we seem to eventually follow it up with some dumb head-scratching loss. Then, as soon as you think we might be headed to an 8 or 9 loss season, we pick it up, beat UVA and go to some mid-tier bowl.
It's like we've been in this constant "seesaw of mediocrity" for basically 8 years now. And honestly, I don't see that trend stopping anytime soon if we can't get some big-time energy and momentum in our program. A couple big-time recruits, a massive increase in giving, a huge win (Clemson), a magical season and NY6 bowl win, SOMETHING.

Okay that's my rant for the night, I'm just a 2020 VT grad wanting a better football team, night y'all.

I mean, you're not wrong. In the last 8 years, according to that metric, we've had 17 questionable losses (2.125 per season). That takes us to the end of the 2011 season. In the 18 previous seasons, we had 11 such losses. (0.611 per season). This is a 347.73% increase in frequency over the last 8 years than there was in the previous near 2 decades.

Combine that with a plummet in great wins that bar1990 pointed out below, where over the last 10 years we've only beaten one P5 team that ended the year with 10 wins, when there were 8 such victories the decade prior, and.... yeah. The fallout of the 2011 season really saw the complete downfall of Virginia Tech as a regional power. And I don't think its a coincidence that this aligns with the rise of Clemson, and the 2 wins they had over us that year.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Good stuff, doesn't strike me as unusual.

When we aren't good, happens pretty often.

When we are average, happens about once a year.

Seems to track with most of our comp set.

I even have a hard time listing this as a questionable loss considering the year/season we're in. And we were only about 10 point favorites. It's not like we were 4 TD favorite world beaters coming in.

Sure we had more players back, but no one's been consistently been practicing or conditioning.

This season is what it is. Exhibition games for all of us to gather around on Saturdays with friends and drink beer and have a good time. If we win great, if we lose, who cares.

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

And have complete meltdowns when we lose.

And we were only about 10 point favorites.

i do not understand the idea of losing as ten point favorites not being "questionable".

the idea that this season is an exhibition season is only half true, because perception lingers -- for the fan base, and for recruits. difficult to sell that we're building something great if we keep being mediocre. and difficult to explain our mediocrity away with "none of this counts anyway" when it also doesn't count for other teams and they're somehow not being mediocre.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

I don't view 10 points as a "heavy favorite". Especially during this season where nothing is normal and we also have Top 5 and Top 10 teams losing at will to unranked, less than mediocre teams.

Teams favored by double digits in any sport, pro or collegiate, lose all the time.

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

historical likelihood of a ten point favorite in college football is 77.4% (source, a little dated)

i don't think we are talking about an unconscionable, all time upset. we are talking about "questionable" losses. Losing a game when you have an implied win probability of almost 80% is definitely questionable.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Should you be expected to lose 20% of them then? Is that the line between under and over achieving?

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K

i don't think it's prescriptive, but rather descriptive. better teams are more likely to win games they "should", worse teams are more likely to lose them. together, you get the historical rate.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

You can sift thru here...
odds results/trends

While it doesn't have the year-by-year games, it does have a column that breaks it down by favorite. And the points versus spread scored. Since 2010, we are -1.1 points versus the spread as favorites. (Basically, if we've averaged being a favorite, and just a favorite, by say 7.5 points, we've average winning by 6.4.) That's not a fantastic number... And again, just as a favorite, no qualifier on how big or little. Also, in those games as a favorite, we are 73-28 ATS. 72% win rate, and a Margin of Victory (MOV) of 11.7

Over the same time frame, all only as favorites
VT is -1.1, w. 72% win ATS and MOV of 11.7
Bammer is +2.3 w/ 54% win ATS and MOV of 24.5
anOSU is +2.3, w/ 53% win ATS and MOV of 22.3
Clemson is +2.5, w 54% win ATS and MOV of 22.5
Miami is -1.0, w/ 51% win ATS and MOV 12.6
UNC is +2.0 w/ 56% win ATS and MOV of 13.4
Pitt is -1.1 w/ 44% win ATS and MOV of 9.7

Since 2015:
VT is +0.2, w. 72% win ATS and MOV of 13.2
Bammer is +2.3 w/ 54% win ATS and MOV of 25.1
anOSU is +2.8, w/ 51% win ATS and MOV of 24
Clemson is +3.7 w. 56% win ATS and MOV of 26.8
Miami is -0.8, w/ 52% win ATS and MOV 12.8
UNC is +4.1 w/ 60% win ATS and MOV of 17.1
Pitt is -0.1 w/ 38% win ATS and MOV of 10.8

Looking at the ATS win %, looks it it really sticks out when we flat out lose games we are favored to win. Guessing that's where a lot of the shock value comes from.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

unless i'm missing something, win% ATS doesn't incorporate whether or not the game was actually won though, as opposed to whether or not the spread line was covered. The reason Bama/anOSU/Clemson have worse win% is because their point spreads are generally larger. Look at Clemson vs Cuse this past weekend -- something like a 45-pt line and won by "only" 26.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

No. you are correct. It's what I could find and compile without cross referencing other sites. Not sure there is one site that has everything in it...hmmm. Idea. Now to find the time to put it all together...................

And agree. The 30 point spreads end up in a 27 point game...shows up as a loss for the ATS column.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

moved my edit here for continuity's sake: i think i see what you're saying now. since we typically cover the spread as favorites, it makes it even more obvious when we (a) not only fail to cover the spread as a favorite but (b) go on to lose outright

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Yes.
But you are correct, the overall W-L is missing when a favorite.
That's the bad (good?) thing with college football. Vegas only cares about ATS. And the fans only care about outright.

Maybe there's one of these in this composite that breaks it out the way we need it?
https://www.masseyratings.com/cf/compare.htm

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

A terrific set of resources for stat crunches like these are the stickied links atop r/CFB Analysis

Aside from that, here are VTs results back to the 90's (might have to "view image" on Desktop to get the detail).

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

win% ATS doesn't incorporate whether or not the game was actually won though

Thank You - I was struggling to wrap my head around why our % was so high

It's an unwritten law that it's my lunch pail. I've issued the challenge. If someone outworks me, they can get it.
Darryl Tapp

on the other side of the coin, covering the spread as a favorite means you won the game

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

With the update a few things stood out. In some years we just didn't have a chance at many good wins. In 1999 we played one such game (FSU in championship). In 2017, only Miami would have qualified if we would have won. Its much easier to have wins against teams with better records when you are 7-6 than 11-2.

P.S. We've ruined 2 perfect seasons.

I was at the WVU game where we beat them badly. The fans commented on how our DBs looked like their LBs. The we injured Adam Bednarik and the had to go with Pat White. You're welcome WVU.

Always a fan of when people take the time to compile information like this.

Small correction: We didn't play FSU in 2006

sorry must have gotten messed up when I added the wins column (it was 2005) ... atleast that's what I am telling myself to feel like I did things right the first time

Some "Bad Losses" aren't as bad when you look into them.

1995: BC's head coach would go on to a 10 year NFL OC position, while Cincy's just came from a DC position at Notre Dame where they had back-to-back #2 rankings.

1997: Miami was led by RB Travis Prentice who set the NCAA record for Career Rushing TDs.

1998: Temple we were starting Nick Sorensen at QB

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

2004: Pace missed 2 FG in a 1 point loss to NC State, who had a future 11 year NFL LB on the field.

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

We also gave up 10 sacks.

And it was hot. The rest of my memory is a bit fuzzy

We dropped a punt at our own like 5 and TA McClendon was going to score with 4 attempts to get 5 yards. To bad his knees were Swiss cheese, he would been a house hold name in the NFL.

Yeah its not really bad to lose to an 8-3 team (Miami U.)

But we should never have lost to temple no matter who was at QB. It's an all time top 5 upset in college football.

It's an all time top 5 upset in college football.

I always get an uneasy feeling when those "Top X College Football Upsets!" lists pop up online because there's a handful of our losses that are up there (Temple, JMU, ODU, etc).

Hey if we're gonna be on a list we might as well be the best at it

Hokie Club member since 2017

Biggest, and saddest takeaway: in the last decade, we've only beaten one P5 team that finished the season with double digit wins (OSU in 2014). In the decade prior, we had 8 wins over P5 teams that finish the season with 10 wins 😒😒😒

Twitter me

In this time period, we've had 4 wins over conference opponents with 10+ wins. Being in the ACC you just don't get a lot of chances. One chance a year is normal for us.

Not news: we aren't nearly as good in the 2010s than the 2000s. Not even close.

Thanks for putting this together.

Could you add VT's final record for each year, too?

It would also be interesting to have a column for divisional or conference champions.

Like in 2010 we have one of the worst losses in history be we go on to win the ACC. In 2018 we have another one of the worst losses in history and follow it up with a season of being steamrolled by average ACC teams.

Ditto on the appreciation for putting this together.

I think this is what we are looking for

Year Bad Loss Opponent Record Good Win Opponent Record VT Final Record
1995 BC 4-8 Syracuse 9-4 6-1; 10-2

It's an unwritten law that it's my lunch pail. I've issued the challenge. If someone outworks me, they can get it.
Darryl Tapp

Or it could be added to the Year column like this:
1995 10-2 (6-1)

I have a couple other things I want to add based on the discussion so I'll do that tonight.

We're not elite...we haven't been elite for 15-20 years. Losing to teams we're supposed to beat will not be an uncommon occurrence.

It's a harsh reality to come to. I was one of the most diehards you'd come across and I think the big L against Stanford in the Orange Bowl made me realize we aren't a perennial championship caliber team anymore and our window had closed. Can we contend and maybe win an ACC Championship going forward? Sure. But I do not see VT making a playoff in my lifetime (and I expect to live a long time since I just turned 34 yesterday.)

We might get lucky with a squad one year and make a run, who knows.

I think a lot of us are living in the past. VT is just a recognizable name in college football (which is great. I'd rather be associated with our past of winning/BeamerBall/etc. than say UVA as a consistent disappointment and a bunch of push overs. But realistically, no one that follows the sport closely expects us to do anything anymore.

I have 0 expectation anymore when watching games and it really helps the blood pressure and the roller coaster ride of depression through the long football season. IMO, unfortunately, basketball is now our best chance at a National Title (in a sport people care about).

** You might want to keep this graph as a working document because these types of losses are probably going to happen here and there more frequently.

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

And the $$ disparity between the have's and the have not's has only grown. The best we could hope for is an elite coach that's so good they're poached. If we're not in constant fear of our coach being taken away from us because we're doing so well, we aren't competing for a national championship. And thats aside from the gap in facilities, support staff, and even bag men.

At least when a coach is poached you get money back. But if you leave the coach in the boiling water too long they are overcooked and hard.

Not necessarily. Not if they structure deals like...oh say....Buzz

appreciate the high-effort content, have a leg!

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

She should be flipping that with a Spurtle.

under good wins- we beat LSU in 2002- not shabby think it was 26-8.
Also beat Texas A&M in 2002 and 2003 home and away. both very good wins- especially at their field.

Marshall, LSU, and A&M all in the same year. Plus the Big East schedule, and still ended up in San Fransisco against Air Force.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

I think that win at A&M was the first time they had ever lost to a non-conference team at home if I recall correctly.

Virginia Tech's 13-3 victory marks the first non-conference loss at Kyle Field in R.C. Slocum's career, ending a 29-game streak dating to Slocum's first game as coach in 1989 (a 28-16 win against No. 7-ranked LSU). It also stopped A&M's streak of seven straight wins in the 2:30 ABC time slot and broke A&M's string of nine straight wins in the month of September.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

In 2002 we were 10-4. LSU was 8-5 and A&M was 6-6. Yes they were ranked at the time, they didn't end up ranked. While always nice to beat P5 teams, they weren't great p5 teams that year.

Beamer "built" a team to beat Miami. He should have built one to beat BC...

In the chart, was 2011 omitted in error or were there just no bad losses or good wins? The memory of my senior year gets hazier every year, but I don't know that we had any "bad" losses and what would've been a "big" win was bought away from us by the CEO of Allstate....

"The Big Ten is always using excuses to cancel games with us. First Wisconsin. Then Wisconsin. After that, Wisconsin. The subsequent cancellation with Wisconsin comes to mind too. Now Penn State. What's next? Wisconsin?" -HorseOnATreadmill

Yes 2011 we played nobody's and Clemson, we were 11-3* with 2 losses to Clemson and a loss/win depending on how you feel about the Michigan game.

While we are all here getting depressed, I might at well throw in Frank Beamer's infamous record against Top 5 teams. Yep, 1-29 I believe was the final count. It also seems to me that we play fewer and fewer of those games now, but what is Fuente's vs top 5 record (I am guessing 0-1 for the ACCCG vs Clemson?). And yet another opportunity on the horizon.
So mixing that continual top 5 losses in with all these shoulda coulda losses sure makes being a Tech fan tough sledding.
And since I love irony, it is so amusing that the year OSU went on to be Nat Champs after we beat them that they were ranked number 8 at the time. Can't catch a break.

And of course GREAT WORK on the chart, it helps to put the painful Wake loss into some perspective.

The LewDew, Professional Golf Bum

Compiled these stats back in 2011...but you get the gist. Of course Clemson's numbers have gone UP.
UVA = 1-20, UNC = 1-40, NCST = 1-27, WVU = 1-38, Miami = 18-42 (tops in NCAA), ND = 21-64, USC = 19-53, OhioSt = 9-45, Clem = 2-32.

And Frank, at that time, was 7-1 against teams ranked 6-10.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

And to complete the thought, using 2015 stats from https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2527216-college-football-coaches-who...
Frank was 44-49-1 against top 25 teams.....take out the 1-29 record and you get an awesome 43-20-1 against teams ranked 6-25.
Guess we are saying that it's one thing to beat a team ranked 6-25 and quite another to knock off a top 5 team, bringing me back to more irony.....Appalachian State has the same number of wins against top 5 teams as we do.....

The LewDew, Professional Golf Bum

And theirs was when they were still an FCA (1-AA) team.

To me the difference between 99-2011 and now is that those teams won ACC titles, put a bunch of players in the pro's, and played undefeated Auburn and Alabama close and dominated Clemson- who has always had talent, beat Nick Saban and LSU, won most games against Miami, et-. also dominated UVA as well. Sure we lost some stinkers too- but the current VT teams look smaller, slower, weaker, don't put many players in the pro's and also don't win marquee games/bowl games. We have a better offense, but not amazingly better. The product just doesn't look as good.

what is Fuente's vs top 5 record (I am guessing 0-1 for the ACCCG vs Clemson?)

0-2. Clemson was #2 in 2017 when we played them.

Actually, might as well post the full breakdown. Based on wikipedia's version of our schedule, so rankings are AP for early season, and CFP for late:

Fuente vs. top 5: 0-2 (2016-2017 Clemson)
Fuente vs. 6-10: 0-2 (2017 Miami, 2020 UNC)
Fuente vs. 11-25: 5-5 (W: 2016 UNC, WVU, 2018 FSU, 2018 Duke, 2019 WF, L: Tennessee, Ok State, 2018-2019 ND, 2018 BC)
Fuente vs. top 25: 5-9

If you look at the times we had a chance to get a win against a 10 win team, only 14 were conference opponents, 4 of them were Miami around the turn of the century and 3 were Clemson in the last 10 years.

The ACC doesn't offer a lot of chances to play a 10 win team in the conference.

Just piggybacking off that last part...the 10+ win teams in the ACC over the last few years (other than Clemson), regardless of if they were on our schedule:

2018: Syracuse
2017: Miami
2016: VT, FSU

Each of those teams had exactly 10 wins. All but Miami achieved the 10th win via the bowl game. And if we had beaten Miami in 2017, we would have been the 10 win team instead of them.

And, might as well look at the Beamer years.

2015: Clemson, FSU, UNC
2014: Clemson*, FSU, GT
2013: Clemson, FSU, Duke
2012: Clemson, FSU
2011: Clemson, VT
2010: FSU*, VT
2009: GT, VT*
2008: VT*
2007: BC, VT
2006: VT, WF, BC*
2005: VT
2004: VT

*10th win in bowl
**more than 10 wins

In 2011, Clemson's 10th win came from the ACCCG against VT.

In the Big East years of the 2000s, Miami had more than 10 wins each year. Other than that, 2002 VT and 2001 Syracuse got 10 wins in the bowl game and 2000 VT hit 11 wins.

In 1999, VT was the only 10+ win team in the Big East. Miami only had 9.


I knew it...

@hokie_rd

Add Liberty, 2020.

VT '10--My avatar will flip, when things are right at VT again.

Rick Monday... You Made a Great Play...

Romanes Eunt Domus

While we shouldn't lose to Liberty, they are top 25 and undefeated, they don't qualify based on the criteria.

bad criteria then lmao

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Why do I get the feeling this sheet will be updated a couple of times this year...

Whatever. It was one bad year.

Seasonal Brew means High ABV for football season and standard the rest of the year.

Sure right now BC, and NC State are good wins, we have no bas losses.