HOKIE HOOPS WIZon April 1, 2023, 6:37 PM | 118 comments
Apparently players in the tournament only have 48 hours after their last game to declare for the WNBA Draft so we should see a decision sometime tomorrow on whether Liz will stay or go.
"Players whose college teams were still active through March 26 will have 48 hours following the conclusion of their final game to renounce their remaining NCAA eligibility and declare themselves available for the 2023 WNBA Draft presented by State Farm."
Kayana Traylor lobbying for us to get one more year.
Kayana Traylor on Liz Kitley's IG post: "Give the ppl 1 more year" #ncaaW pic.twitter.com/KdIoIhYavq— Mitchell Northam (@primetimeMitch) April 1, 2023
This obviously is the biggest offseason tipping point for next year.
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While I would selfishly want her to stay... I hope and I pray that through consultation with her parents, coaches, and anyone else in her inner circle, that she will make the best decision for her.
I will be happy with whatever that decision is.
From what I hear her nil would be close to her wnba salary next year. Don't know if I believe that; but if true, why not one more year. VT has never won a Natty and whoever accomplishes that first will be icons. Her and Amore on the same team are definitely capable of winning it all.
Let's say Kitley, King, and Geiman all come back
That gives us:
C: Kitley (CSr), Strack (Fr)
Post: Dunn (So), Baker (Fr)
Wing: King (CSr), Geiman (CSr), Vejsicky (So), Wenzel (r-Fr)
Point: Amoore (Sr), Suffren (Fr), Nelson (Fr)
If none of our players decide to use their COVID year...it's gonna be Sisqo and I challenge you to name anybody else from Dru Hill.
In either event, I count 2 scholarships open.
I'd make a run at Kiki Jefferson out of JMU, Kennedy Todd-Williams out of North Carolina, and Maria Gakdeng out of BC.
Unlike Kitley, King and Geiman don't have the deadline of 48 hours to make their decision, as neither are projected WNBA draft picks.
The WNBA base is around $65k. I really hope VT NIL can match that for the greatest female athlete we've ever had.
Since when is Tinscher coming back?
Don't get me wrong, Kitley is amazing, top 5 female athlete all time at VT, but Tinscher won National Player of the Year and no hit the most dominant softball program ever assembled.
With that said, we are a stupid ass if we aren't on the phone with our NIL foundations securing NIL deals for at least Amoore, Kitley, and any other lady who can return plus any player who can come in and improve where we already are. We have an opportunity to buy a title in a way we've never had before and we have to pull out all strings to make it work, they're worth it.
Amoore is tricky. Due to being an international student, NIL opportunities are hard to come by. But totally agree on the rest. We need to throw everything we can to make it a smart business decision for Kitley to stay an extra year.
Ehh for Amoore just set up some kind of trust that gets funded but she doesn't have access to until afterwards and find whatever feeble loophole you can to make that work. There are ways around this, we just need to be willing to wade in the grey zone for a little while.
We have to throw what we can at wbb. This is arguably the closest we've sniffed a natty since the 4th quarter of the 1999 Sugar Bowl and we can legitimately run it back given the eligibility we still have. We're stupid if we don't take hold of the situation.
That is my selfish hope that her NIL is close to WNBA salary, and Tech can also offer classes towards her medical degree at no expense. That second part is something the WNBA can't offer.
That's a good point...if her nil is anywhere close AND she's getting a free education that could be a game changer. Sounds like the better deal financially may be to stay in college (goes to show you how little women athletes make professionally). However, I'm sure she has dreams of playing in the wnba so she may not want to postpone it. I don't think she stays just to up her draft stock. She is projected top 10 already. Either way, as others have stated, I wish her the best no matter what her decision is.
She absolutely needs to make the best decision for her. I wish her the best regardless of that decision.
With that being said, and this is from my couch at home, another year to work on her hands (not being loose with the ball), work on being more decisive with the ball in her hands, and becoming much more physical will go a long way in helping her draft stock.
This. She lowers the ball too much w her height.
Also, she needs to be more physical.
The NCAA womens bball game is insanely physical, the refs let the beatings continue, and theres no ref review for flagrant 1 or 2. VT needs to combine their finesse game (which is so, so good) with a physical presence from tipoff to final buzzer to win a natty.
I said this a ton of times on Friday night, but she also needs to work on her situational awareness. There were more than a few times when she fell trying to draw the foul, then the ball went right past her. Personally, the flops drive me insane, especially when the refs have shown that they aren't calling anything and just letting them play street ball, so stay on your feet so you have a better chance to move to the ball if it comes your way.
That said, maybe it's how they are coached or just how the game is played now. I don't know. I do know that watching this team play is fun as hell, and having Kitley back next year makes them an immediate contender for another deep run!
I'm glad you said it, one of the things that definitely had me scratching my head the last few games was how someone as big and strong as Kitley was could, at times, get physically bullied down low. Makes sense that she was selling out to get a call, but I think we've seen in the NCAA Tournament those calls will never come. She's strong enough to play through the contact, so make it a point this year to get her to play through contact, almost seeking it out, and she'll be unstoppable. She's the kind of player who could have opponents making business decisions in terms of whether or not to try and contest her shot around the rim.
We get 1 or 2 big transfers, and I don't know why any supremely talented player wouldn't want to transfer in to play with Kitley and Amoore next year, we could enter next season as National Championship favorites. If we are a smart school, we encourage our NIL partners to be aggressive in securing WBB transfers, and see if we can't push us over the top. We're so close, we just need that final push to get us there.
I also have a theory that she could get more calls being more assertive like you said. Once she brings the ball down low and hesitates, it becomes a scrum like a 5 year old soccer game (defenders swiping the ball, grabbing her arms, pushing, her elbows are moving, her feet are shuffling). There's so much going on that i think the refs just freeze and call nothing.
If you make an assertive move, then you force the issue a little bit and can make a potential foul call more black and white.
If she keeps it high and tries to turn she's is probably going to risk some elbows to the face of smaller defenders and pick up flagrant fouls. I really don't trust the officials on the women's success to acknowledge her cylinder and call it on the defense.
She has to be able to catch and go straight up strong rather than the consistent hesitation. If she goes up quicker those she is getting body into those smaller defenders because her elbows will be above their heads.
The Iowa big seemed so much quicker in her actions than Kitley. Would love to see her be that quick and decisive consistently.
We see it in men's hoops too: the flop to draw the foul. The big difference is that the caliber of referee in men's hoops is much, much higher and so much more consistent, as hard as that it to believe. Objectively, I also think the men do a better job with timing their flops to coincide with a potential dead ball/out of bounds situation, instead of in the back court with the ball loose in the middle of the floor. Obviously, I'm not a ref, so I don't know what they are looking for, but I think a player fighting to stay on her feet while getting assaulted is more realistic than someone that has been falling over because someone brushed by her arm. And maybe that's what these WBB refs are doing, maybe they are trying not to award the flop by just ignoring it. But I have no doubts that these women played their hearts out this entire run, it's just frustrating when you look back in hindsight.
Even on the men's side, the refs do tend to let players get a little more physical during the NCAA Tournament and they don't call things that they would have called during the regular season. But as you said, the MBB refs are so much more consistent than the shitshow that WBB reffing has been this year. There have been moments in pretty much every game I've watched where I wonder what the hell the refs are doing, because they just consistently let the physicality completely go off the rails.
But I shouldn't be too surprised when I see Mulkey take a swing at a ref in the game last night and absolutely nothing was done about it.
I say (selfishly) "Give the people one more year!"
But seriously, I'll support her no matter what she does!
How do we help with NLI money?
Triumph NIL has her deal.
So how would a normal human contribute to her NIL?
Is there a place to buy a shirt with her name on it? Or a place to donate to support her should she choose to stick around?
So I'm guessing we should know by 9:00 p.m. tonight
I knew the wbna salaries would be miniscule compared to the nba but I was somewhat blown away by the lowest range, average, top paid and what top drafted rookies make. There does not appear to be monetary incentive, at least salary-wise, for her to jump early if NIL can match ~65-75K. It's not like she is going to forgo a huge sum and risk it all if she gets hurt. Also, I am not sure how much more appealing getting drafted to play in the wbna and just being on a team is relative to possibly returning to the final four in college. She could be a part of the catalyst that propels this program in perpetuity and a VT sports legend if they win a NC. Seems like a totally different calculation than mbb. If Coach Brooks can convince her the chips will be there again it would seem fairly plausible she would return.
Pretty crazy that someone could make more with an entry level job than playing in a pro sports league
Seriously. I said to my wife, "you know what's sad? Do you know how much money she'd make going to the WNBA?" Her response: "What, just under a million...?"
Their media rights deal comes up in 2025. They should (hopefully) see a big boost in revenue then.Women's sports has grown exponentially in popularity over the last decade so we should see that reflected in what the networks are willing to pay when the new deals come up. The value from that deal will go a long way into boosting salaries to a far more respectable level. I'd also expect the WNBA to expand as well. Right now, there's more talent out there than there are teams. 1st round picks are getting cut because there just isn't enough room. There's an audience out there to watch it, but they need that TV revenue money to make this all happen.
And the only reason WNBA players get paid what they do is because of the subsidies from the NBA. The product, in its current state, is not self sufficient. It is what it is.
True, but the college basketball tournament should be worth something.
She's coming back!!!
I'm so freaking happy to hear that.
Would be tough to pull a repeat, but I'll enjoy watching them try next year!
Can't upvote. It is at 33...
EDIT: Now I can upvote, somebody else had pushed it to 40.
Edit: beat by 2 seconds
Woo! So glad! Brooks found gold in the portal last year, maybe he can do it again. Another year of Kitley and Amoore is big. HANG MORE BANNERS LADIES!
This is fantastic. Two besties and roommates running it back next year? Sign me up!
Run It Back!!!
Best female athlete VT has ever had.
Supah big facts
0.78 ERA, 13.5 K/7, .116 BAA, 123 Wins, 11 Saves, 124 CGs and 54 shutouts
Angela Tincher was an absolute beast.
Not saying Tincher wasn't great, but if we're talking hierarchy of sports after football and mens basketball, women's basketball is just a tick below and starting to get bigger. That's why I say that Kitley is the greatest female athlete at VT.
She has helped position this program at maybe just the right time to ride a wave of popularity in women's basketball.
Tinscher no hit the greatest softball program ever assembled (so great that it single-handedly ended softball as an Olympic sport because of how noncompetitive every other nation was against it) and won National Player of the Year honors for her sport.
I mean come on, we can appreciate everything Kitley is doing without going crazy and completely glossing over and overlooking the accomplishments that others have done before because we're trying to prop up the current generation.
Agree with Alum here. Tincher is the greatest. If you want to say Kitley is the most important, I could agree with you, particularly if the program grows into a powerhouse from here.
Suffice it to say there's been several superb women athletes at Virginia Tech. They've come from different sports, different years, and against different competition. Perhaps a thread devoted to the merits of all our wonderful women athletes is in order.
Right now let's just celebrate the return of Liz Kitley and figure out how we can support her and the women's basketball team next season.
So since she's coming back for year five (even if she wasn't)...do you think they'll end up retiring her number? I mean, they basically have to, right?
She hasn't won any post-season individual award.
??? 2 Time ACC POY
Isn't that a post season award?
It has to be a national award.
Is this a National award???
Possibly, but no guarantee.
Probably up to Whit
Down voted since it was not one of your Shorsey gifs.
The portal will be FLOWING after this
Link to Portal
Will we have a scholly spot for King if she decides to come back? I know the Lady Hokies had a ton of seniors.
Owusu is gone, even if she had eligibility after the final four she is gone.
T. Soule is gone and will be missed.
Gregg is gone.
Gieman is gone isn't she?
Have to believe that a spot on the 2023-24 VT WBB squad is going to be a highly coveted landing spot in the portal this year. Brooks is probably going to be able to pick and choose who he wants out of a sea of applicants.
C: Kitley (CSr), Strack (Fr)
Post: Dunn (So), Baker (Fr)
Wing: King (CSr), Geiman (CSr), Vejsicky (So), Wenzel (r-Fr)
Point: Amoore (Sr), Suffren (Fr), Nelson (Fr)
Traylor, Soule, Owusu, Brooks, Gregg, Ford
2 spots open if King and Geiman come back
Kenny Brooks has said Geiman has a job lined up already post grad, so don't think she is expected back
We gotta make sure to get the younger girls PT next season so we don't lose 100% of our production.
Maybe we should use more than six players, then. That was one of the criticisms levied at the Virginia Tech team/coaching staff this year.
I am hoping with more quality depth we will see a bigger rotation. We did during a lot of non-conference games.
That is a lot coming back and a whole lot outgoing, speaks volumes about how good this year's team was.
Three spots open for transfers
So I guess that answers 6144's question
Its going to take a lot for me to temper my expectations, but if we thought THIS year was special, next year could really be something.
ESPN's way-too-early has us at no 14. This was with knowing Kitley was coming back. I don't know how you can look at this team and not have them in the top 10
Well, for starters we aren't in the SEC, so that automatically pushes us at least 5 spots lower in the rankings
hmm..., in the preseason rankings of '22 to '23 season, SEC had two in the top 5 (three in top 16), but ACC had five in top 13. The last ranking prior to the tournament had four ACC teams in the top 25 and three SEC teams in the top 25. And it's hard to argue that the rankings were far off:
I wouldn't suggest SEC bias translates to WBB rankings yet.
twas somewhat tongue in cheek based on coverage during the tournament
It was clear that national media knew very little of VT. The media coverage imbalance was very noticeable throughout the tournament and leadup to the final 4. It was very frustrating as VT fan, but I think it would have been different if it was an ACC blueblood like Duke, UNC, ND or L'ville, or if VT was a sensational Cinderella story. Being an slow-rise ACC team with a #1 seed just wasn't of interest for the media, I guess.
I mean the lack of any VT player on the All Tournament team is just appalling and very indicative of just how little the media truly cared about covering us during this run. We were up 10 points in the 4th quarter against the team that ran away with the National Title the very next game, and you're trying to tell me that not a single one of our players was deserving of any kind of recognition for their play?
why would they recognize a bunch of chokers /s /ducks
This was without knowing King would be back and the unknown on our athleticism in the paint with Gregg and Traylor gone. If Brooks doesn't get a couple ladies that can hit in the paint that ranking is about right.
Do either Traylor, Gregg or Soule have a Covid year of eligibility left?
No. Last year was their COVID year.
Scholly breakdown on April 1:
Current Scholly count:
This is where the losses of Dunn and Vejsicky hurt the most.
Kitley, King, and Amoore are a phenomenal core, but there is 0 other experience.
Baker will hopefully be a quality forward and Wenzel will need to be a top threat as well, but relying on an r-Fr and a true Fr in the starting lineup are concerning.
This is where the transfer portal will hopefully giveth rather than taketh.
Honestly, with a very solid core of Kitley, King, and Amoore a group with 1 or more years left would probably love to be able to step in and play immediately.
like that all Big East player that just entered the portal? would make a hell of a complement at F next to Kitley
So excited for her and King to come back. Wish Traylor and Soule were able to come back and provide us that toughness we needed to make that final 4 run.
Women's basketball seems to have more of the stability I once enjoyed with the college men's basketball and football teams before the one-and-dones, transferring, and NIL (aka pay to play). I like cheering for the kids who put in the work and stick with the teams and teammates they love (GTFO Owusu...sorry, that's not fair...well maybe it is...respect my decision). I like getting to see the kids get better together and not just fall apart after one coach leaves, or players transferring out from a disagreement, or bad season, or more playing time, or more money. As a VT fan, I want to watch VT win, but also (and possibly more importantly) I want to feel connected to the team (not the point of emphasis for athletics, just my preference). This team was a lot of fun to watch this year and I'm looking forward to keeping the reigning ACC Champion (with soon to be 3-time ACC POY...if she can beat out potential favorite Amoore) VT women's basketball team to my regular watch schedule next year.
It's clear Brooks and the players love VT. Their stories are endearing. They play a fun style of basketball. And they're really freaking good.
They are the most fun part of VT fanhood these days. And a lot of that has to do with the ability of Brooks to build and maintain a core team and supplementing via the portal. Sheppard, Kitley, King, and Amoore bought into the program and took it to the heights they're at today, which looks like it will be continued with the recruiting classes that Brooks is able to sign lately.
Pry seems to be trying to do the same as Brooks (slow build to greatness via a committed core of players that love VT). The young core of players right now at least seem to be committed to the VT rebuild. Hard to tell yet whether VT football can return to be a national-caliber team in a few years.
I think Young is finding it difficult to get a talented core into Bburg at the HS recruiting stage and thus VT now has this modular portal team. And maybe men's Bball will forever be too transient to get to that again, idk. And if Young is not able to build that core, hopefully they can portal in a top ACC team again.
I am glad I renewed my row E seats for women's BB before the ACC Tourney even started. I think there are going to me some new season ticket holders for next year.
We're debating if we should add WBB season tickets. We already come up for as many men's games as we can make, so we would really only be able to get up for any games that are a double header, but even if we get tickets and can't go, it's still supporting the team, right??
Look at it this way. $100 per seat gets you a reserved seat ticket and each ticket counts towards your Hokie points. The women's tickets are less than 1/4 of the men's tickets (and next year might be the better team again).
You can also donate your tickets for the games you aren't going to make it for.
Hokie Bird completing the roster....
Well, you LOVE to see that!
It would have hurt something extra painful if the Hokie Bird had transferred.
There was a joke tweet after that Duke game (when Fu reached the end of his rope) that the Hokie Bird had entered the transfer portal.
Okay, I'll bite. Who is Raven Kitley?
Liz's sister. Has autism. Part of the hokie family and team favorite.
Also a regular guest on the Queens of Cassell podcast.
She was recruited as hard or harder than Liz herself according to the Kitley's and Brooks.
C'mon, man! Where have you been the last month?
We don't kink shame in this establishment, sir
Posted by GIS above 12 hours earlier? Drink?
His pic was broken when I posted this but sure....
Blanca Thomas to UNC. This was probably the result of Kitley coming back.
Really hate this. She is going to be a problem for 4 years.